EPTI think that a regen nerf would be better than the spore buff, because it puts the pressure on the muta player to control the mutas better, because damage doesn't just disappear. As compared to letting zergs throw down tons of spores and turtle hard, which this patch seems to promote. A regen nerf wouldn't make mutas inviable in other matchups, either. It would just force the zerg to micro them more intensively to have the same effect. On the other hand, props to blizzard for being cautious. I'd much rather see this than see them patching too much.
Heart of the Swarm Balance Update – May 13, 2013 - Page 8
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Terrasmith
47 Posts
I think that a regen nerf would be better than the spore buff, because it puts the pressure on the muta player to control the mutas better, because damage doesn't just disappear. As compared to letting zergs throw down tons of spores and turtle hard, which this patch seems to promote. A regen nerf wouldn't make mutas inviable in other matchups, either. It would just force the zerg to micro them more intensively to have the same effect. On the other hand, props to blizzard for being cautious. I'd much rather see this than see them patching too much. | ||
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Purpose88
Germany137 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12042 Posts
On May 14 2013 09:34 heyoka wrote: I'm down for anything that increases the number of viable strategies so if it makes gameplay more diverse, then good job. Couldn't say it any better myself. | ||
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Sigmur
Poland497 Posts
On May 14 2013 18:29 Purpose88 wrote: Protoss is still too strong, especially in Lategame. Blizz should do something about that! And btw If you're in Masters+ Widowmine drops or Hellbat drops doesn't work at all anymore. People just get 1 Cannon/Spore+Spine per Mineralline und you can't do alot anymore. You are joking. If mines + drops don't work at masters level+, how come pros use them ALL the time. | ||
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freewareplayer
Germany403 Posts
On May 14 2013 18:28 Terrasmith wrote: I don't get all the Terran hate. Seriously. At the pro level Terran currently isn't overpowered at all, even with all the new units everyone wants nerfed. Hellbats and widow mines are shut down pretty easily with micro, and the pros have already adapted. Terran hate is tradition. The old sworn enemy from the the other neigboorhood. You NEED to hate them. It is not about balance. It is about JUSTICE. Give us something equally op as 5 rax reaper, release tanks, old bunkerrushes, whatnot for the same time they had it D:. Then, after franticly laughing while abusing terrans on ladder with op stuff, maybe, maybe the terran hate will dissapear in some hearts. Probably not tho, stuff is too deep. OT: This is the most uncreative lame balance attempt ever imo. Might work out fine for balance, if it raises game quality is another thing, who wants to see 52 dps spores turtle action? | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On May 14 2013 18:56 freewareplayer wrote: Terran hate is tradition. The old sworn enemy from the the other neigboorhood. You NEED to hate them. It is not about balance. It is about JUSTICE. Give us something equally op as 5 rax reaper, release tanks, old bunkerrushes, whatnot for the same time they had it D:. Then, after franticly laughing while abusing terrans on ladder with op stuff, maybe, maybe the terran hate will dissapear in some hearts. Probably not tho, stuff is too deep. Winfestor, gglords and siegequeens? Although tbh traditional hating a race for fun is fine, just like zerg are dirty bugs. But it is nice if some people can come into a balance discussion with another mindset then that terran should be nerfed because they are terran. | ||
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NOFX
France32 Posts
On May 14 2013 09:34 LaLuSh wrote: I think hellbat was an obvious nerf that Blizzard omitted. There's no question it will be nerfed at some point. Apart from that it's probably good that they're waiting it out. But I give it 6 months before the novelty value of HotS dies off and people start to get really really tired of camp fests again (especially ZvP). There's a level of tolerance now that won't be there towards the second half of HotS life cycle. ZvZ change is positive. I'm terran and totally agree on this. The hellbat is broken at such a level that even in TvT it's a broken unit, that's pretty telling. But I really hope they won't nerf it to the ground and make the unit worthless like the WoL reaper. It's a really cool unit that brings so much to the terran arsenal. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12042 Posts
On May 14 2013 19:02 NOFX wrote: I'm terran and totally agree on this. The hellbat is broken at such a level that even in TvT it's a broken unit, that's pretty telling. But I really hope they won't nerf it to the ground and make the unit worthless like the WoL reaper. It's a really cool unit that brings so much to the terran arsenal. I really have yet to see a game of TvT where the Hellbat is broken. If people actually defend the drops don't do anything and marauders outrange hellbats so you can just kite them. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On May 14 2013 19:02 NOFX wrote: I'm terran and totally agree on this. The hellbat is broken at such a level that even in TvT it's a broken unit, that's pretty telling. But I really hope they won't nerf it to the ground and make the unit worthless like the WoL reaper. It's a really cool unit that brings so much to the terran arsenal. I don't know about further hellbat nerfs. We have a slow short range unit right now. Once it connects it deals a lot of damage, but with the slow speed it's hard to make it work. Hellbat drops seem only an issue in TvT from my perspective. If Zerg or Protoss are losing to Hellbat drops, they're doing some things extremely wrong. If the dmg gets nerfed, then they have to increase the range. Because otherwise the unit will just be trash. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
The main problem I have when playing against hellbats is simply the front assault against my siege lines, they soak up so much damage compared to bio. I still need to figure that out better to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I immediatly want it nerfed. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Then there is TvP and TvZ. - In TvP they don't seem to be a problem. Maybe the drops? But I don't see a difference with blueflame hellion drops. - In TvZ they are strong, but as a player who doesn't use mines (I hear too much complains about them so I decided to not use them), hellbats are a nice. Are they too strong? I also wonder how long it will take before zergs move away from the WOL muta ling bling style. It was not that good in WOL, and now in HOTS it's not better. I wonder what the problem is with hydra swarmhost compositions into viper ultra swarmhost or something. Some arguments I heard: - without muta's, drops are too strong. Then I wonder why zergs don't use spores and spines like at the end of wol. They seem to forget them these days. Spores together with 2-3 hydras and good overlord placement = bye drops. - swarmhosts are not good. Really? Then why do I shit my pants when someone makes them and puts his army on top of them? How I see the future ZvT: - massive amounts of swarmhosts covered with roachhydra into strong hive with vipers. - mines being completely useless. | ||
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lue
Sweden27 Posts
Guess I'll be stuck on 20% winratio in ZvT for another few balance patches aswell since apparently the game needs gasfree tier 3 splashdamage units that are nigh invincible. without muta's, drops are too strong. Then I wonder why zergs don't use spores and spines like at the end of wol. They seem to forget them these days. Spores together with 2-3 hydras and good overlord placement = bye drops. To answer this, the zerg army is already weaker than terrans/protoss, constantly having to surrender units to locate them in each of the bases as drop-defense(3 hydras per base, 4 bases~ thats 24 supply) is in the long run not viable at all, as for the static defense, well for a single hellbat drop, 2x hbs+ medivac, you'll need 2 spores to kill the medivac in a reasonable amount of time, and around 3 spines for the actual hellbats. This setup alone will cost you 450 minerals whereas the terran already invested less than that to even make the drop in the first place, namely 300 minerals + 100 gas. I don't even mind the medivac boost, but the hellbats are just dumb. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
The only way a hellbat nerf would be acceptable is if it comes with some buffs to the tank. I do think promoting tank-based playstyles would be a welcome change too, considering how badly the unit has fallen off the radar in HOTS. | ||
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Simsons2
Latvia73 Posts
On May 14 2013 19:52 Snowbear wrote: Hellbats being a problem in TvT is so 1 month ago. No one good has problems with them now. Then there is TvP and TvZ. - In TvP they don't seem to be a problem. Maybe the drops? But I don't see a difference with blueflame hellion drops. - In TvZ they are strong, but as a player who doesn't use mines (I hear too much complains about them so I decided to not use them), hellbats are a nice. Are they too strong? I also wonder how long it will take before zergs move away from the WOL muta ling bling style. It was not that good in WOL, and now in HOTS it's not better. I wonder what the problem is with hydra swarmhost compositions into viper ultra swarmhost or something. Some arguments I heard: - without muta's, drops are too strong. Then I wonder why zergs don't use spores and spines like at the end of wol. They seem to forget them these days. Spores together with 2-3 hydras and good overlord placement = bye drops. - swarmhosts are not good. Really? Then why do I shit my pants when someone makes them and puts his army on top of them? How I see the future ZvT: - massive amounts of swarmhosts covered with roachhydra into strong hive with vipers. - mines being completely useless. Mutas are the only decent way to deny terrans drops you'll still just boost past spores and drop somewhere else be it marines or hellbats, they are gas intensive units and that leaves us with zerglings based ground army. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On May 14 2013 19:53 lue wrote: This really wont change my ZvZ at all. Guess I'll be stuck on 20% winratio in ZvT for another few balance patches aswell since apparently the game needs gasfree tier 3 splashdamage units that are nigh invincible. To answer this, the zerg army is already weaker than terrans/protoss, constantly having to surrender units to locate them in each of the bases as drop-defense(3 hydras per base, 4 bases~ thats 24 supply) is in the long run not viable at all, as for the static defense, well for a single hellbat drop, 2x hbs+ medivac, you'll need 2 spores to kill the medivac in a reasonable amount of time, and around 3 spines for the actual hellbats. This setup alone will cost you 450 minerals whereas the terran already invested less than that to even make the drop in the first place, namely 300 minerals + 100 gas. I don't even mind the medivac boost, but the hellbats are just dumb. So 1 hellbat per medivac would be the sollution? | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On May 14 2013 20:01 Simsons2 wrote: Mutas are the only decent way to deny terrans drops you'll still just boost past spores and drop somewhere else be it marines or hellbats, they are gas intensive units and that leaves us with zerglings based ground army. Boost over 2 spores and 2 hydras? Then end up in the spines? | ||
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Simsons2
Latvia73 Posts
On May 14 2013 20:04 Snowbear wrote: Boost over 2 spores and 2 hydras? Then end up in the spines? There's more than one entrance into the base over the air space. I'm not exactly complaining as my ZvT winrate is ~50ish% but the point stays ling/bling/muta is and will stay more effective way to deny drops while fighting bio/biomine which is what most terrans do go nowadays. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On May 14 2013 18:28 Terrasmith wrote: I don't get all the Terran hate. Seriously. At the pro level Terran currently isn't overpowered at all, even with all the new units everyone wants nerfed. Hellbats and widow mines are shut down pretty easily with micro, and the pros have already adapted. At the pro level terran is fine, but at the non-pro level they're just too cost efficient with bio mine, on top of having so many early game options at their fingertips. Zerg has no effective counter to mines and plays identical to WoL for the first 10 minutes. I don't know if there's any good way to make it easier for diamond and masters players to deal with mines without screwing it up for the pros (something that should be avoided at all costs). But it would be interesting to know if Blizzard is at least considering some options or not. | ||
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SacredCoconut
Finland121 Posts
On May 14 2013 19:10 TeeTS wrote: I don't know about further hellbat nerfs. We have a slow short range unit right now. Once it connects it deals a lot of damage, but with the slow speed it's hard to make it work. Hellbat drops seem only an issue in TvT from my perspective. If Zerg or Protoss are losing to Hellbat drops, they're doing some things extremely wrong. If the dmg gets nerfed, then they have to increase the range. Because otherwise the unit will just be trash. If you are not doing damage with hellbats against zerg or protoss meaby you are doing it extremely wrong? By the way you don't move on ground with hellbats you move with medivacs. | ||
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