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Forum Index > SC2 General
640 CommentsPost a Reply
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Zazzles
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Slovakia153 Posts
May 03 2013 13:07 GMT
#401
I think oracle speed should be an upgrade at core for lets say 150/150 so they are not to good in early game but more effective in later stages in game
"Fortune favors the bold"
Cloak
Profile Joined October 2009
United States816 Posts
May 03 2013 13:09 GMT
#402
On May 03 2013 21:55 ZenithM wrote:
I admit that as a Terran, I would trade our Banshee for this buffed Oracle :D
And I like banshees, and it's not often that I think other races' units are better.


Banshee could probably use some tweaks. I'm always in favor of bringing unused units back. It's probably because Starport is better served for Ubervacs right now.
The more you know, the less you understand.
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
May 03 2013 13:10 GMT
#403
On May 03 2013 22:07 Zazzles wrote:
I think oracle speed should be an upgrade at core for lets say 150/150 so they are not to good in early game but more effective in later stages in game

In later stages of the game there is most likely a turret/spore at each base anyways, so no one would get the upgrade then, I think.
I don't think an oracle buff is needed at all (_maybe_ a slight acceleration increase so it's a bit easier to react to a mine in the split second between becoming visible and triggering).
Get off my lawn, young punks
DoNuTs84
Profile Joined February 2012
Denmark24 Posts
May 03 2013 13:11 GMT
#404
If you are a protoss player and have problems with terran then just do like Maximusblack and do proxy oracle opening in every PvT. Its like 100% win rate lol
remember87
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden144 Posts
May 03 2013 13:12 GMT
#405
- I like the spore crawler buff even if I think the problem with mutawars can be adressed in a better way.
- Burrow change might be a bit too much. There will definitely come new cool strategies based on this, but it might be too much, time will tell. 75/75 could have been enough imo. I actually think this buff may have as large an impact as the queen buff. Imo burrow is not used enough and when it is, zerg will become a much bigger threat.
- The oracle change is too much. Buff the speed or the acceleration, not both. This forces people to play in a certain way that will be boring to watch after a while.

Right now I only want to see a slight nerf on the radius of the splash damage of the widow mine and that medivacs stop healing hellbats. Then I think the balance is perfect.
suicideyear
Profile Joined December 2012
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
May 03 2013 13:13 GMT
#406
bring back goliaths and wraiths
)))____◎◎◎◎█████
Toadvine
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland2234 Posts
May 03 2013 13:14 GMT
#407
The Oracle is just a dumb unit, same as the Banshee. Mobile, flying units with high dps against ground that you can get in the early game are just a bad idea, period, it's pretty much the same problem as with Reapers at the beginning of WoL. Units shouldn't be capable of ignoring defensive positions so easily and dealing so much damage at the same time.

Although it is kind of funny that Terran players cry so much about this, while medivac boost allows them to do the same thing throughout the entire game.
"There are always some Eskimos ready to instruct the Congolese on how to cope with heat waves." - S.J.Lec
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
May 03 2013 13:20 GMT
#408
proxy tech is lame, and a unit that more or less encourages proxying is terrible.

recognising that a proxy may be on the map is a skill, but actually FINDING it is luck. and what could it be? could it be a VR all in, proxy immortals, oracles, or even a dark shrine? to the player who is not a professional they can all look pretty darn similar.
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 03 2013 13:21 GMT
#409
On May 03 2013 22:10 ACrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 22:07 Zazzles wrote:
I think oracle speed should be an upgrade at core for lets say 150/150 so they are not to good in early game but more effective in later stages in game

In later stages of the game there is most likely a turret/spore at each base anyways, so no one would get the upgrade then, I think.
I don't think an oracle buff is needed at all (_maybe_ a slight acceleration increase so it's a bit easier to react to a mine in the split second between becoming visible and triggering).


I would like acceleration just to make the unit a little snappier. The oracle is super quick, but feels kind of sluggish when you use it to attack or switch targets.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 13:31:17
May 03 2013 13:30 GMT
#410
On May 03 2013 22:13 suicideyear wrote:
bring back goliaths and wraiths



Would trade my left nut for a Lurker or two, and while we are at it, can we have the defiler back too. Vipers are soo meh

Edit : The change to Oracle looks really good, it micros very well now
People_0f_Color
Profile Joined August 2010
177 Posts
May 03 2013 13:34 GMT
#411
How are people so mad about the burrow change? This might make tunneling claws rushes viable, which would be cool to see. Really, the only way You are going to block someone's nat is if they take a late expansion, and in that case they are putting on hyper aggression. To invest in burrow against hyper aggression already means you are taking a huge risk to inflict damage.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 03 2013 13:42 GMT
#412
On May 03 2013 22:34 People_0f_Color wrote:
How are people so mad about the burrow change? This might make tunneling claws rushes viable, which would be cool to see. Really, the only way You are going to block someone's nat is if they take a late expansion, and in that case they are putting on hyper aggression. To invest in burrow against hyper aggression already means you are taking a huge risk to inflict damage.

Well, I can see how you cancel a 1gate expand with zerglings and then block it. But I dont think 1gate PvZ will stay popular anyways, with how much shit it allows Z to do.
AwM
Profile Joined November 2012
United States80 Posts
May 03 2013 13:53 GMT
#413
Spore- I'm torn on this one. Though I think it would change the ZvZ Meta of ling/muta. It would also make 1-2 spores much more scary when you fly in for your mineral line harass. Though I guess i could live with this one.

Burrow- I think that it is a big drop that would change a lot of early game for all zerg matchups. Though i also think they could change it to 100/50 to receive a similar early game.

Oracle- I think it should get one or the other, not both. Or maybe even have it be an upgrade that you can get not long after being able to build oracles. This buff seems too strong
Every time you read this a SCV dies.
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
May 03 2013 13:55 GMT
#414
omg, i can't wait to research burrow first and send a zergling to burrow under where they would wall off. Maybe if I do it early enough I can do it right where they would expand. Finally I might be able to beat terran again
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
May 03 2013 13:56 GMT
#415
Changes are ok.
Spore buff is a hell of a ugly change but i guess it might work. I still doubt roach/hydra will compete with muta ling though. Muta still excel at stopping new bases and they trade fairly well with hydra's still.
Burrow change is interesting, i'm always in favor of buffing these small utility spells. 50/50 still makes it a small decision as to when to get it. I doubt any aggressive strats will spawn from this though, it's more likely it will just become a utility upgrade you get every game to delay expansions and save workers/queens. Speaking of which, burrow will probably be quite a nice answer to oracle harass, just burrow drones and then burrow queen after it's about half dead. Oracle is out of energy by that time anyway.
Oracle change in itself is fine, the unit could need a small buff. Still stargate in general is a bit poorly designed. It remains quite useless in PvT, you have a harass/scout unit now that is still easily stopped but just super strong when coming as a suprise. Still nothing else at the stargate is of remote use in PvT, phoenixes are lousy at stopping drops and all units are like paper against bio compositions. PvZ oracle is just pretty much insane now, it can run safely from even mutalisks now. Oracle harass should definately be replacing phoenix harass in that matchup, especially if detection might be more crucial. PvP moves even more to stargate openings I guess, DT much less of a risk with this mobility and you can threaten against gateway builds much more by just having an oracle that will wipe their mineral line if they move out. Can't see much reason not to go stargate now, the trick just being what to make from it. It will be sad to see more phoenix mirrors which are 10x worse than muta mirrors.

freewareplayer
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany403 Posts
May 03 2013 14:03 GMT
#416
Muta Wars ZvZ need adjustement for sure, but 45 dmg spore is stupid.

Thats way too much dmg, you cant ever enter a base which has just 1 spore, unless you already have a massive muta count and outplayed him to crap, but how you will do that without harassing him is another question.

Muta will be map control tool only. Definetly a stupid change.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 03 2013 14:07 GMT
#417
On May 03 2013 22:55 Butterednuts wrote:
omg, i can't wait to research burrow first and send a zergling to burrow under where they would wall off. Maybe if I do it early enough I can do it right where they would expand. Finally I might be able to beat terran again


with which build order against which build order?
I mean, if you do it of hatch first, a Terran can just put down his expo at the natural from a 1rax, 1rax reaper or CC first opening long before burrow is done. If you do it of a 1base build, you are going 1base without queen. That's only 4units per minute, with the research taking 100seconds... I think in the best case you can come up with some 12-14pool opening get a queen, get the burrow behind it and maybe pull it of against a overly frightened Terran and even that sounds ridiculous to me right now (100seconds research, gas and a delayed natural just to force a scan).
DidYuhim
Profile Joined September 2011
Ukraine1905 Posts
May 03 2013 14:13 GMT
#418
On May 03 2013 23:07 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 22:55 Butterednuts wrote:
omg, i can't wait to research burrow first and send a zergling to burrow under where they would wall off. Maybe if I do it early enough I can do it right where they would expand. Finally I might be able to beat terran again


with which build order against which build order?
I mean, if you do it of hatch first, a Terran can just put down his expo at the natural from a 1rax, 1rax reaper or CC first opening long before burrow is done. If you do it of a 1base build, you are going 1base without queen. That's only 4units per minute, with the research taking 100seconds... I think in the best case you can come up with some 12-14pool opening get a queen, get the burrow behind it and maybe pull it of against a overly frightened Terran and even that sounds ridiculous to me right now (100seconds research, gas and a delayed natural just to force a scan).

1 hatch burrow. To counter 14CC. Terran can't place his CC at his expand because it's ling blocked. He rages and quits.

This is how new meta is born.
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
May 03 2013 14:25 GMT
#419
So we'll actually see the buffed spores?

www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/397867140?t=74m25s
mk.ultra
Profile Joined March 2012
United States54 Posts
May 03 2013 14:27 GMT
#420
On May 03 2013 22:30 Topdoller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 22:13 suicideyear wrote:
bring back goliaths and wraiths



Would trade my left nut for a Lurker or two, and while we are at it, can we have the defiler back too. Vipers are soo meh

Edit : The change to Oracle looks really good, it micros very well now


While we're at it let's just go back to Brood War in the SC2 engine lol
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
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