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On May 02 2013 13:38 DeathProfessor wrote:
I don't think the name calling is really necessary, I think its a good point, even if made obnoxiously. I seriously imagine next year McDonalds starts a kickstarter... or Kobe Bryant. I remember when people asked for donations to help hurricane victims, not create companies. If ROOT becomes a multi-million business I hope they give back their money at least.
What, there have been fundraisers for all kinds of stuff since forever, just look at this fundraiser for a god damn statue ( first google result for me )
http://www.wboy.com/story/21900015/morgantown-brewing-company-hosts-fundraiser-for-statue
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fucking sensationalist garbage. Sometimes I wonder how he fucking makes his living.
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Edit: I guess I didn't say anything that wasn't already said.
The short of it, I think Richard Lewis is ridiculous. Gogo Root house 
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On May 02 2013 13:58 robopork wrote:I think these criticism come down to a lack of or a very muddled perspective. Either this house should or shouldn't happen, and it either can or can't happen without donations. I think it should happen and I think getting it done without supplementary funds is a pipe dream. Virtually all esports organizations spend everything they make. A lot of them spend more than they make. I'm not sure where Root falls, but I'd go out on a limb and say you won't find stacks of linen under Catz' mattress. This is really easy to criticize from an armchair because it's really difficult to actually empathize with unless you've been in or know someone in this type of a situation. Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 13:14 Heartscry wrote:
Future revenue, if it is consistent and evidenced, can be borrowed against to raise lump sum finance. In british football clubs regularly borrow against future season ticket revenue, tv money, etc. Has this option been explored? If so, why was it ruled out? British Football clubs vs Root Gaming? What bank in the US loans $25,000 to an esports organization unless they're crooked and looking to fuck you on interest? We're just not there yet. EDIT: Decided not to fall for flame bait.
It was more used as an example of how revenue can be used in creative ways,rather than going down the donations route. Esports, I would argue, must find sustainable business models and surely ROOT has to be among the flagship teams to lead the way? Not to stretch an image too far but donations are like building a house on sand.
You talk quite rightly of supplementary funds. But usually, funds would come from a source where there would, usually, be an expected return on investment. Not only would this encourage sound business practices in an industry not exactly known for them, but it also creates accountability. You cannot hope to encourage future investment in Esports if money simply evaporates, with only the fulfilled dreams of a few chaps to show for it. As an isolated episode there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking donations from willing fans, of course. But there has to be a movement towards better organic growth or the backside will fall out of the industry.
Lets put it another way. Investors would be more keen to put money into the team if they could prove they had solid business plans and had sourced finance from reputable sources. Donations, in the long term, are extremely volatile and hardly encourage consumer confidence.
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This is really bad "journalism", but at least it is pretty obvious that it is a lot of OPINIONS (which is what most "journalism" is nowadays ... albeit veiled a lot better).
Asking fans for money looks like a bad thing, because the fans are the weakest and last link in the line. So the whole effort has the look of a beggar. There is nothing wrong with asking though, because people can think for themselves and decide what to do with their money. Root has always been on the verge of being successful, but I really hope they manage it anyways ...
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Treating your readers like dithering fools is a really good way to keep something legitimate #sarcasm. I can almost guarantee you that anyone who donated any significant amounts of money did so keeping in mind...
A) What they get value wise out of their money...IE: if I am some random dude who watches root players 2 or 3 hours a day, that's a shit ton of entertainment I'm getting and say a 100 dollar investment in them possibly being able to do more for me seems worth while.
B) Catz was very upfront about what their approximate running costs will be per year, and why they were doing the fundraiser, and where approximately the money will go. I'm fairly certain if enough people wanted a much more detailed accounting of what they did with the money Root would offer it up.
C) Did you know donating money to something like this can be used as a tax write off? food for thought there...if you don't believe me consult a tax expert.
I could go on but there is a billion reasons why I see no problem with attempting to crowd source anything assuming you think you can. So long as the money goes to what it was suppose to go towards there is no reason to resort to such slanderous writing.
Richard Lewis needs to check himself, it's this kind of bullshit 'journalism' that gives legitimate journalists a bad rep. He 'could' have had a legitimate opinion and made good points, but instead he resorted to acting like a playground bully who was mad because someone took his pudding cup.
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If anyone takes his personal unfiltered take on a situation akin to a blog as journalism your an idiot.
Hell read this
Richard Lewis shares his derailed train of thought with the wider world in his regular column feature, Gonzorreah.
This column is the sole opinion of the author and does not represent the opinion of Heaven Media Ltd or the opinion of any affiliates.
He never even try's to assert this as nothing more then his personal opinion.
stop creating strawmen
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On May 02 2013 16:10 Bodzilla wrote:If anyone takes his personal unfiltered take on a situation akin to a blog as journalism your an idiot. Hell read this Show nested quote +Richard Lewis shares his derailed train of thought with the wider world in his regular column feature, Gonzorreah.
This column is the sole opinion of the author and does not represent the opinion of Heaven Media Ltd or the opinion of any affiliates. He never even try's to assert this as nothing more then his personal opinion. stop creating strawmen
But if you read his comments at the bottom of the page, he clearly asserts that he is simply exercising a journalistic style, rather than merely a comments blog.
Always be careful when writing "your an idiot", for future reference.
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On May 02 2013 16:10 Bodzilla wrote:If anyone takes his personal unfiltered take on a situation akin to a blog as journalism your an idiot. Hell read this Show nested quote +Richard Lewis shares his derailed train of thought with the wider world in his regular column feature, Gonzorreah.
This column is the sole opinion of the author and does not represent the opinion of Heaven Media Ltd or the opinion of any affiliates. He never even try's to assert this as nothing more then his personal opinion. stop creating strawmen
Having an opinion and claiming you have no standard of integrity to hold up to is irrelevant, you ask the world to read it, the world will respond as well.
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Just like the rich get richer, the popular benefit for calls for donation over the...worthy? Talented? Needy?
Zach Braff just made a Kickstarter to fund his next film...hes a multimillionaire receiving regular royalty checks who could've easily paid for it himself. But he didn't. His fans paid for it - gladly. Thats a commercial product. He'll make bank off the movies release and distribution.
The fact of the matter is theres no moral absolutes, and the world isn't perfect. Tons of people get more satisfaction from donating to a bunch of guys they like than they would donating to a starving beggar on the street. Tons of people feel those guys are more deserving than starving Aricans. Who is to say they're wrong?
In the end its peoples own money, and its up to them to spend it. You can feel its slimy all you want, and thats OK. Richards opinion is OK. People donating is OK. Roots move is OK, its their reputation they put on the line, the trust they've earned.
Basically everyone is in the right here.
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Austria24422 Posts
Oooooh, so that's what Destiny's twitter post yesterday was about before he deleted it. He was right then.
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Professionals earn their living, it’s not given to them. Anything else is just garbage.
This sentence is fucking garbage.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On May 02 2013 16:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Oooooh, so that's what Destiny's twitter post yesterday was about before he deleted it. He was right then.
What did he say anyway, if you can paraphrase?
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Austria24422 Posts
On May 02 2013 16:59 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 16:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Oooooh, so that's what Destiny's twitter post yesterday was about before he deleted it. He was right then. What did he say anyway, if you can paraphrase?
"Some people are too fucking stupid to be alive today". If it's about this then he's right.
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On May 02 2013 16:34 E.L.V.I.S wrote:Show nested quote +Professionals earn their living, it’s not given to them. Anything else is just garbage. This sentence is fucking garbage.
Care to elaborate? Because that's his point: organisations getting themselves pushed into higher financial levels they can't reach by themselves. That's bad business because it's not sustainable and therefore not the way to go
Refrence in the article: + Show Spoiler +"What we can safely say is that ROOT are in a position to make money from what they do. If they don’t make enough, why should it be on the community to help them make more, to take their business to a stage it is unable to reach without charitable donations? If they don’t earn enough then the implication is that either they don’t do smart enough business or their product isn’t in high enough demand. Either way, if they want to progress, they should be speculating and that should come from within or through private investment, not through asking everyone who enjoys their players or uses their website (which is in itself an act that provides ad revenue) to have a whip round."
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lol honestly whatever who cares, they are getting a gaming house out of it. Like no gaming house or gaming house but get some hate in some articles?
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On May 02 2013 16:10 Bodzilla wrote:If anyone takes his personal unfiltered take on a situation akin to a blog as journalism your an idiot. Hell read this Show nested quote +Richard Lewis shares his derailed train of thought with the wider world in his regular column feature, Gonzorreah.
This column is the sole opinion of the author and does not represent the opinion of Heaven Media Ltd or the opinion of any affiliates. He never even try's to assert this as nothing more then his personal opinion. stop creating strawmen
I've read plenty of opinion pieces. Most writers will have the balls to make it loud and clear that the article is solely their opinion, and will at least state why they have such an opinion.
Richard Lewis doesn't back up any of his assertions. Once you cut out all the fluff, the jokes, the meaningless analogies, and the layers of weasel words and phrases to pretend that evidence and other people support his accusations (without naming a single one), all you have is him repeatedly stating how horrible ROOT is ad nauseum.
On May 02 2013 17:11 Split. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 16:34 E.L.V.I.S wrote:Professionals earn their living, it’s not given to them. Anything else is just garbage. This sentence is fucking garbage. Care to elaborate? Because that's his point: organisations getting themselves pushed into higher financial levels they can't reach by themselves. That's bad business because it's not sustainable and therefore not the way to go Refrence in the article: + Show Spoiler +"What we can safely say is that ROOT are in a position to make money from what they do. If they don’t make enough, why should it be on the community to help them make more, to take their business to a stage it is unable to reach without charitable donations? If they don’t earn enough then the implication is that either they don’t do smart enough business or their product isn’t in high enough demand. Either way, if they want to progress, they should be speculating and that should come from within or through private investment, not through asking everyone who enjoys their players or uses their website (which is in itself an act that provides ad revenue) to have a whip round."
That paragraph is a perfect example of what I said.
- "ROOT can make money. Or maybe they don't."
- Rhetorical question generalizing donations as bad, and to force readers into a single thought path.
- Unsupported conclusion that ROOT has no business model and it doesn't work.
- Unsupported statement that money should always come from internal sources or private investment.
In other words, a whole lot of crap. He never says why a method is bad, just take his word for it. And he never gives evidence about ROOT's supposed failure, only that he wants to jump to that conclusion.
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I don't see the problem, it's not like Root forced anyone to give them money.
They were as transparent as it can get when it comes to what the money would go to; details posted on the fundraiser page as well as a 24h livestream which included an AMA with all of the staff thus giving plenty of opportunity for people to find out even more about the project.
Richard Lewis just makes himself look like an angry child with shit like this. He's either looking for cheap pageviews or he's just mad at Catz or something.
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On May 02 2013 17:20 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 17:11 Split. wrote:On May 02 2013 16:34 E.L.V.I.S wrote:Professionals earn their living, it’s not given to them. Anything else is just garbage. This sentence is fucking garbage. Care to elaborate? Because that's his point: organisations getting themselves pushed into higher financial levels they can't reach by themselves. That's bad business because it's not sustainable and therefore not the way to go Refrence in the article: + Show Spoiler +"What we can safely say is that ROOT are in a position to make money from what they do. If they don’t make enough, why should it be on the community to help them make more, to take their business to a stage it is unable to reach without charitable donations? If they don’t earn enough then the implication is that either they don’t do smart enough business or their product isn’t in high enough demand. Either way, if they want to progress, they should be speculating and that should come from within or through private investment, not through asking everyone who enjoys their players or uses their website (which is in itself an act that provides ad revenue) to have a whip round." That paragraph is a perfect example of what I said. - "ROOT can make money. Or maybe they don't." - Rhetorical question generalizing donations as bad, and to force readers into a single thought path. - Unsupported conclusion that ROOT has no business model and it doesn't work. - Unsupported statement that money should always come from internal sources or private investment. In other words, a whole lot of crap. He never says why a method is bad, just take his word for it. And he never gives evidence about ROOT's supposed failure, only that he wants to jump to that conclusion.
I agree that the article lacks depth and backup, but he still has a point. If we want esports to become a business like regular sports then charity is not the way to go
Also I didn't see any "unsupported conlusion that ROOT has no business model and it doesn't work". Actually in the first sentence of the paragraph he states otherwise (though unsupported). And for that particular point it's not essential for him to be right: either they make enough money for a house with their business (in this case they don't need donations), or they're not supposed to have it
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Crowdfunding is wrong!! The Chicago Bulls shouldn't charge people $30-$100 (pulling numbers out of my ass, I don't know the cost of an NBA ticket) for them to come and watch a game played. The bulls should have a better business model!
...... Wtf? If people don't want to donate... They don't. What on earth is this clown whinging about? I don't care for ROOT. I didn't donate. MIND FUCKING BLOWN EH? Most sports are actually 'crowd-funded' to a significant degree at the end of the day.
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EPT
