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We should accept the apology from Sundance, and the only mistake that they made was not disqualified the gamers early enough that not following the rules themselves. Gamers should learn how to respect the rules of the tournament. If the host of the tournament don't take action against the Gamers that not following the rules, that may result in 10 or 15 participants show up in the final not the same ID user in qualifier in the future.
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On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
I'm a fan of starcraft and i want to see the best play the best.
Judging from a lot of posts from na and eu sc2 fans on this very thread, i believe there are a lot of fans that actually do care about what happened to the chinese players and want to see justice. You say that there are very few chinese fans that spend money on mlg subs. You don't need to be chinese to support chinese sc2 players. I have supported and enjoyed sen's stream for years. Plenty of fans from different nationalities have posted on this thread asking about the chinese players and what is going to happen with them!
If mlg (sundance) at the very least, doesn't issue an apology for the chinese players and the knocked out hacked players, and indeed for all na partipants (not knowing a 512 man tournament was too small is quite shortsighted for a company such as mlg) as well as giving those chinese players seeds into the challenger league and/or the opportunity to play in it, then you will see a huge shitstorm start growing because fans make the community possible and fans will let blizzard know about it.
As for the wcs, i was really enthusiastic about it and i must admit i did like mlg broadcasts before but they way they handled the wcs na tournament was the worst handling of any tournament in sc2 history imo and it was dreadful. A company is supposed to rise to the occassion to handle the biggest sc2 tournament ever and mlg just fell flat on their faces. I'm just hoping mlg will fix this and sort out all the issues that people have pointed out because otherwise they will lose a lot of fans myself included.
It's supposed to be a new start to the game with a cause to celebrate but right now it's a big fat disappointment. If they keeping on screwing up then i can see a petition will start growing for nasl to replace or be cast along mlg as a competitor for wcs na as well as numerous tweets to blizzard.
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Do the Chinese players know they need Visa and fly to US to participate the offline tournament if they qualified?
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On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
I don't pretend to know anything I can not gleam from the facts I can observe as an outsider. If there are few chinese tournaments, it is a reasonable conclusion that the local community isn't very large or willing to invest money into their hobby. I'm not sure how that is an insult in any way; there is nothing wrong with not considering sc2 something worth spending money on. If my assumption is incorrect, you are free to educate me on the matter.
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On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator. his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
Was he wrong saying that China doesn't have much of a sc2 scene?
If there were holes in his knowledge of the chinese sc2 scene feel free to fix them and not only state that he insulted you.
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MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
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On April 23 2013 23:45 Richard4021 wrote:
Do the Chinese players know they need Visa and fly to US to participate the offline tournament if they qualified?
what a silly question is this? sure, they do. everyone does know that.
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On April 23 2013 23:32 AXygnus wrote:
I was under the impression the chinese players didn't play the qualifers because they checked in later than others.
![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/21/044026usjmh8va8kccnaav.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/21/044034bwnzvvrb2ajlrinv.jpg)
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For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar.
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On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote:
MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
You know that for example Jim is #1 Bardcore on the Korean grandmaster ladder? Please be less ignorant and less insulting.
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On April 23 2013 23:50 syllogism wrote:
For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar.
WCS is an OPEN tournament, not a LOCAL one.
On April 23 2013 23:48 Sienionelain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator. his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha. How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
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United States97277 Posts
On April 23 2013 23:54 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote:
MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious. You know that for example Jim is #1 Bardcore on the Korean grandmaster ladder? Please be less ignorant and less insulting.
haha yeah idk how you can say they had a .1% chance to qualify when all 3 chinese that did get in made it to the last round, and 2 missed qualifying by 1 map while comm got DQd. They didnt even get their best players in. >.>
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On April 23 2013 23:50 syllogism wrote:
For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar.
And this is related how?
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On April 23 2013 23:45 Richard4021 wrote:
Do the Chinese players know they need Visa and fly to US to participate the offline tournament if they qualified?
Is racism autorized in this thread?
If it isn't sarcasm then what do I say, they aren't retarded so yes they know there is an offline part.
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On April 23 2013 23:47 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator. I don't pretend to know anything I can not gleam from the facts I can observe as an outsider. If there are few chinese tournaments, it is a reasonable conclusion that the local community isn't very large or willing to invest money into their hobby. I'm not sure how that is an insult in any way; there is nothing wrong with not considering sc2 something worth spending money on. If my assumption is incorrect, you are free to educate me on the matter.
@syllogism. I don't understand your point. You say chinese fans prolly don't spend money on mlg therefore mlg shouldn't care about their opinions? Do you really think all the fans of the chinese sc2 players have to be chinese? There are plenty of na eu people who posted here who care a lot about the chinese sc2 players because they are part of the sc2 scene.
The finnish sc2 scene is a lot worse than the swedish sc2 scene. By your logic you equate the spending power of fans to potential tournament invites. Sweden has a much bigger sc2 scene than finland. Therefore finnish fans spend less than swedish fans, so why should dreamhack/mlg invite finnish players? Why not just ignore them and invite the more famous swedish sc2 players? That's your logic when it comes to chinese fans/players. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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On April 23 2013 23:55 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:50 syllogism wrote:
For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar. WCS is an OPEN tournament, not a LOCAL one. Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:48 Sienionelain wrote:On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator. his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha. How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there. MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money. this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
No he didn't say they aren't worth any money. He said they don't spend money into mlg. Everybody knows that chinese people are incredibly rich now. Whenever i go shopping, i see chinese signs because chinese people are so rich now that every single shop in london wants their money. The stereotype used to be the poor chinese peasant but now it's the rich chinese shopper
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On April 23 2013 23:57 Xercen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:47 syllogism wrote:On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator. I don't pretend to know anything I can not gleam from the facts I can observe as an outsider. If there are few chinese tournaments, it is a reasonable conclusion that the local community isn't very large or willing to invest money into their hobby. I'm not sure how that is an insult in any way; there is nothing wrong with not considering sc2 something worth spending money on. If my assumption is incorrect, you are free to educate me on the matter. @syllogism. I don't understand your point. You say chinese fans prolly don't spend money on mlg therefore mlg shouldn't care about their opinions? Do you really think all the fans of the chinese sc2 players have to be chinese? There are plenty of na eu people who posted here who care a lot about the chinese sc2 players because they are part of the sc2 scene. The finnish sc2 scene is a lot worse than the swedish sc2 scene. By your logic you equate the spending power of fans to potential tournament invites. Sweden has a much bigger sc2 scene than finland. Therefore finnish fans spend less than swedish fans, so why should dreamhack/mlg invite finnish players? Why not just ignore them and invite the more famous swedish sc2 players? That's your logic when it comes to chinese fans/players. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
You are reading too much into what I said. I was suggesting that everyone should understand that not every voice of the community means the same to the businesses who run tournaments. In BW the korean tournament organizers did not care about the foreign fans at all. I did not suggest that their top players don't deserve to participate in MLG just like anyone else, although it is very natural if WCS NA prioritizes local players. I agree that DH should invite more swedish players as based on my impressions they are overall better players. I don't think you are going to be very successful at catching me in hypocrisy; I appreciate talent, character and intelligence in players, not their nationalities.
On April 24 2013 00:03 Xercen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:55 fleeze wrote:On April 23 2013 23:50 syllogism wrote:
For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar. WCS is an OPEN tournament, not a LOCAL one. On April 23 2013 23:48 Sienionelain wrote:On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator. his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha. How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there. MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money. this statement is so wrong in so many ways. No he didn't say they aren't worth any money. He said they don't spend money into mlg. Everybody knows that chinese people are incredibly rich now. Whenever i go shopping, i see chinese signs because chinese people are so rich now that every single shop in london wants their money. The stereotype used to be the poor chinese peasant but now it's the rich chinese shopper
The suggestion was not based on any stereotypes, but the fact that there are few local tournaments and that is why their sc2 pro scene is struggling. Quite similarly I'm certain that Finnish spectators are, even relatively, a much worse revenue source than north american ones. Even targeting us with useful stream ads is difficult.
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It is so disappointing that in America we have NO open bracket tournament anymore and we have 330+ million people in the country, its a big country and NONE. As someone who just wants to compete, I am so DEFEATED. There is nothing to play in. Z33k, Playhem, MLG, IPL (had even payed sign up fee), all down. So I am trying, but its just so discouraging. I was also signed up and checked in at the moment it was open. So I wonder why the WCS tourneys where so crazy different? It also maybe should not have been so hyped that "anyone could still sign up". The tourney was already like 6k people signed up for the 512. Seems like the EU format best suited the foreigners, where NA was a GSL style tournament. I want to know; Will NA EVER have another open bracket tournament to play in? Probably not.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On April 23 2013 23:39 Richard4021 wrote:
We should accept the apology from Sundance, and the only mistake that they made was not disqualified the gamers early enough that not following the rules themselves. Gamers should learn how to respect the rules of the tournament. If the host of the tournament don't take action against the Gamers that not following the rules, that may result in 10 or 15 participants show up in the final not the same ID user in qualifier in the future.
Players wouldn't have had to swap IDs if the tournament had been open like it was meant to be, they should have done that, there isn't really much they can do but make sure they don't fuck up the next one and maybe replay games that were rendered void by hackers/DQs.
Edit: changed voided to rendered void
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On April 23 2013 23:55 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 23:48 Sienionelain wrote:On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote:
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views? Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator. his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha. How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there. MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money. this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
From financial viewpoint they have no interest in chinese viewers if they are not worth them money. That is how companies work. If he said they shouldn't care about chinese viewers because they are chinese it could be interpreted as racist. However it is not the case and I still see no racism in his original statement.
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