This message was posted on MLG's site a few minutes ago, since no previously existing thread on the matter has added this I deemed it relevant to make a new post:
Dear StarCraft Fans:
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Good on his part imo. Makes sense what happened as well, too many people wanted in and they didn't consider that. Let's just wait and see what happens now
Well done not mentioning the issues that some of the chinese players faced.
Edit: I understand that its too late to fix the qualifiers, but how about actually making it up to some of the people that got screwed over? Add another round to the next MLG (not WCS) stop and invite all the players that were screwed over somehow to play, or at least make some kind of gesture.
apologies are great and all, but a lot of these problems should have been anticipated before the event, and it seemed more like intentional sloppiness rather than simple mistakes
nonetheless, thank you for the apology MLG, and I hope the quality of your work improves.
I guess I didn't get as riled up as everyone else. Sure, there are some issues that need addressing, but I don't see the point in shooting guns into the air as if they had "killed esports."
uh... so what will happen to the first batch? All the chinese players were ignored now just have to swallow and deal with it? Acknowledging your problem is one thing, fixing it is another story.
On April 23 2013 07:08 Talack wrote: Apologies are good and all, what is being done to fix this situation now?
This is my question. The wording implies revisions going forward but the event this weekend was a failure which wronged multiple parties and impacted many pro's shot at making it into WCS Premier this season...lockout of an entire season in the largest SC2 event in the world due to mishandling of the situation by a 3rd party...all this says is, "OK, I get it".
Good on MLG for simply owning up to their mistakes and opening a place for organized feedback going forward. I do hope they actually read these E-mails. I know I'll be sending one.
On April 23 2013 07:11 NB wrote: uh... so what will happen to the first batch? All the chinese players were ignored now just have to swallow and deal with it? Acknowledging your problem is one thing, fixing it is another story.
yup, they are royally fucked, MLG won't do shit to help those who got affected by it.
On April 23 2013 07:11 bogderpirat wrote: yeah, this is not enough. i want to see someone get fired over this, the level of disappointment is just too big.
On April 23 2013 07:08 Talack wrote: Apologies are good and all, what is being done to fix this situation now?
Quite frankly the qualifier is over and not much can be done now. I assume the challenger league qualifier will be run better? Only time will tell.
Challenger league qualifier is invite only so it better be run much better. Anyone not in that can only get into code s/premier for season 3 at the earliest.
On April 23 2013 07:11 bogderpirat wrote: yeah, this is not enough. i want to see someone get fired over this, the level of disappointment is just too big.
It would had been great if they addressed some of the people who got affected by this, to actually fire someone would no do that.
Too much PR and not enough action IMO. What action is being taken regarding the players that were unfairly left out, or were eliminated by ineligible players?
On April 23 2013 07:11 bogderpirat wrote: yeah, this is not enough. i want to see someone get fired over this, the level of disappointment is just too big.
It would had been great if they addressed some of the people who got affected by this, to actually fire someone would no do that.
Oh this is so sad, looking at the official bracket, 3 chinese players in their final match to qualify, then 2 of them lose and comm got disqualified.
I really hope they actually let them play against eachother though, and revoke it. Also, surprised that Macsef beat JYP and Demuslim beating Jaedong, but none qualified though :/
I did read this fast so I might have missed it but not a word about the Chinese? They are probably the hardest working players after Koreans. Let Comm play his match. Blizzard should approve this. At least the whole community probably does. The admin first asked Comm 'Did you play all the games?'. Why ask like that if they gonna DQ him anyway. He made it until 1 game away from qualifying. He obviously deserves the chance. Afaik there is always one rule saying pretty much ADMINS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. Right about time it gets used for a player trying to live his dreams imo. Really sucks hardcore for the other Chinese players who didn't get in aswell. It's totally unacceptable they couldn't compete. They live this game. It's hard for Chinese players to travel to other countries. This was a huge oppertunity for them. And not even a word about them. Disrespectful statement imo. Can't write anymore just discusted. Sorry
Good apology but no solution. Plus they didn't try and resolve the Comm situation, why not just let him play his match vs Apocalypse? Apoc got the default win, just have them play. If apoc wins then thats great, but Comm deserves a chance too since it was MLG's mess up from the very start when it came to the Chinese players.
Well nothing can be changed now afterwards of course. But I think, flying some Chinese players out to the next MLG would be a really cool gesture for example. They basically had their only chance to play in a big tournement taken away and need something to look forward to again and stay motivated to keep playing.
On April 23 2013 07:14 looknohands119 wrote: Hmm... Well, its a start. No mention of the hacking issues or of DQing Comm though, not even a defense of their decisions. That's a bit unfortunate.
Honestly it feels like it was just a huge mess and there was a lot of confusion involved. DQing comm(the account sharing or w/e) was reasonable as he broke MLG rules, however he should have gotten a seed or he should have been able to participate in the qualifiers.
On April 23 2013 07:17 Fnatic.SaSe wrote: I did read this fast so I might have missed it but not a word about the Chinese? They are probably the hardest working players after Koreans. Let Comm play his match. Blizzard should approve this. At least the whole community probably does. The admin first asked Comm 'Did you play all the games?'. Why ask like that if they gonna DQ him anyway. He made it until 1 game away from qualifying. He obviously deserves the chance. Afaik there is always one rule saying pretty much ADMINS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. Right about time it gets used for a player trying to live his dreams imo. Really sucks hardcore for the other Chinese players who didn't get in aswell. It's totally unacceptable they couldn't compete. They live this game. It's hard for Chinese players to travel to other countries. This was a huge oppertunity for them. And not even a word about them. Disrespectful statement imo. Can't write anymore just discusted. Sorry
this. SaSe has great insight into the chinese scene even living there. i don't understand how he could leave out the comm case in his apology. a "regame" of the DQ against apocalypse is not hurting anyone. why not just do it?
at least he's seeing the need for more and better admins. if he fixes it, i doubt.
On April 23 2013 07:22 EkiMGnaW wrote: As long as the administrative issues and the hacker problem is fixed, I'm happy. I don't really have any right to complain about anything else.
The production definitely felt rushed. That said, props to the people at MLG for working hard putting it together.
Everything will always become better just like how starcraft tournaments advanced in production from 2010-2012
Does anyone actually believe this? All he's doing is trying to save face for his company's many fuckups. He's not going to do anything to even try to fix the situation. I guess the players barred from entering and those that were knocked out by the hacker/Hyun are just screwed now. What a shame. Edit: Sase says it much better than me.
Seems like a decent apology, and at least they're rectifying something they can rectify at this point (immediately showing the finished bracket -- seriously, 2013 on the Internet: Nothing is secret). Hopefully lessons are learned and they will be better-prepared next time.
On April 23 2013 07:11 bogderpirat wrote: yeah, this is not enough. i want to see someone get fired over this, the level of disappointment is just too big.
Problem with eye for an eye is that eventually the world goes blind. I do not believe the infractions incurred merit anything of this nature (now as for the NASL sound guy... c: ).
Of course, this thread is going to be filled with "nice apology, but I AM NOT SATED" posts, but this is just day one, folks. They'll iron the issues out and be better moving forward.
On April 23 2013 07:22 EkiMGnaW wrote: As long as the administrative issues and the hacker problem is fixed, I'm happy. I don't really have any right to complain about anything else.
The production definitely felt rushed. That said, props to the people at MLG for working hard putting it together.
Everything will always become better just like how starcraft tournaments advanced in production from 2010-2012
sorry i only see MLG going downhill from 2011-2013. though they improved 2010-2011.
On April 23 2013 07:19 eddwaan wrote: well, at least they apologized. :D
ofc they apologize, everyone apologizies in these kind of situation would be stupid if not, the problem is we want to see actions and not only words -.-
On April 23 2013 07:19 Musicus wrote: Well nothing can be changed now afterwards of course. But I think, flying some Chinese players out to the next MLG would be a really cool gesture for example. They basically had their only chance to play in a big tournement taken away and need something to look forward to again and stay motivated to keep playing.
I don't think that option is viable anymore because they wouldn't be doing anything at an MLG.
On April 23 2013 07:24 plasmidghost wrote: Does anyone actually believe this? All he's doing is trying to save face for his company's many fuckups. He's not going to do anything to even try to fix the situation. I guess the players barred from entering and those that were knocked out by the hacker/Hyun are just screwed now. What a shame.
Nothing really can be done about the hacker/hyun situation, they can't redo the qualifiers lol.
On April 23 2013 07:17 Fnatic.SaSe wrote: I did read this fast so I might have missed it but not a word about the Chinese? They are probably the hardest working players after Koreans. Let Comm play his match. Blizzard should approve this. At least the whole community probably does. The admin first asked Comm 'Did you play all the games?'. Why ask like that if they gonna DQ him anyway. He made it until 1 game away from qualifying. He obviously deserves the chance. Afaik there is always one rule saying pretty much ADMINS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. Right about time it gets used for a player trying to live his dreams imo. Really sucks hardcore for the other Chinese players who didn't get in aswell. It's totally unacceptable they couldn't compete. They live this game. It's hard for Chinese players to travel to other countries. This was a huge oppertunity for them. And not even a word about them. Disrespectful statement imo. Can't write anymore just discusted. Sorry
So true, and not even a mention of all the other players who got screwed over because of late dq's and incompetent admins. It is ridiculous that MLG can't even recognize what the community is most upset about. It is a horrendous situation that only seems to get worse. It's hard to find words that describe how one feels, but being disgusted is close.
Fucking ridiculous. Simply saying sorry would of been better, then it would of been ambiguous enough that we wouldn't know that you still don't understand what you did wrong.
On April 23 2013 07:19 Musicus wrote: Well nothing can be changed now afterwards of course. But I think, flying some Chinese players out to the next MLG would be a really cool gesture for example. They basically had their only chance to play in a big tournement taken away and need something to look forward to again and stay motivated to keep playing.
I don't think that option is viable anymore because they wouldn't be doing anything at an MLG.
I'm sorry, I really don't get what you mean, could you elaborate?
On April 23 2013 07:19 Musicus wrote: Well nothing can be changed now afterwards of course. But I think, flying some Chinese players out to the next MLG would be a really cool gesture for example. They basically had their only chance to play in a big tournement taken away and need something to look forward to again and stay motivated to keep playing.
I don't think that option is viable anymore because they wouldn't be doing anything at an MLG.
As far as I'm aware the normal MLG tournaments continue?
I have seen to many apologies from MLG regarding previous tournaments etc. This qualifier was just over the top in how it affected players to a point where yet another apology and "we will improve" just doesn't cut it any longer. Cancelled my Gold subscription from lapsing over after this weekend and will wait and see how things improve before providing any more money to MLG production.
At least being in AUS I get to enjoy GSL in prime time
They really need to invite players like Comm Jim Demuslim directly in Code A (Challenger) without need to play a qualifier. And the qualifier should be a open tournament not an invite one based on a premier qualifier which has no sense. And this qualifier should be reserved for Master 300+ NA or chinese who got left out in the first one.
He states ... "I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations."....
This is bullshit.. tell that to the pro's that got fucked by MLG... and now are held captive in the MLG-scene... This WCS-NA is bullcrap... i feel sorry for the progamers that got damaged... they should repair whats broken.. or atleast make an attempt..
Except for TOP and Macsed, because of of the WCS system work, the rest of the chinese are out for most of the 'year', and without any real chance of getting to the finals.
I like the possibility of growing the american scene, but not by destruction of others..
I guess it's too late to do much of anything now. Sundance is a great guy and definitely someone who tries to take into consideration everybody's thoughts and be a accommodating as possible. Good luck going forward.
Recognizing that mistakes were made is the first step in moving forward. Good on MLG for the apology; let's hope that the coming WCS NA broadcasts/events show off what was learned.
Interesting, it's basically the opposite of what he said last night on his twitter. The stuff he was saying yesterday basically said to me "not our fault, also im giving you all this stuff and you're just asking for more"
Apologizing for screwing a lot of people out of potential and very much needed prize money and exposure is not enough. Don't just apologize to the viewers, apologize to the players and teams as well, this has really damaged the NA scene in the eyes of viewers, organizers, and most importantly players.
When I read the letter I was thinking of the South Park episode where BP drills and releases Cthulu and the CEO makes all those ridiculous "We're sorry..." ads. Those players need more than just that, they need compensation.
The players who were "wronged" aren't locked out of the entire season, they just missed an opportunity to qualify for a special, one time premier league qualifier. There won't be any premier league qualifiers from here on out. There is still the challenger league and its respective qualifier for this season. I don't doubt that Sundance is sincere in his apology and I am sure MLG will adapt and improve, however, it is unfortunate that any of these mistakes happened in the first place. Regardless lets move on as community from this issue and enjoy the rest of what WCS has to offer.
On April 23 2013 07:33 farvacola wrote: Recognizing that mistakes were made is the first step in moving forward. Good on MLG for the apology; let's hope that the coming WCS NA broadcasts/events show off what was learned.
Sure, a great step forward.
However, they still have not put this information anywhere significant for players or community members other than the ONE(?) time it has been posted:
On April 20 2013 02:01 MLG Deimos wrote:
There will be a 2nd invite only qualifier next weekend to decide the 16 players entering the challenger league.
9th-40th from the Qualifying Tournament 1, will get an invite the 2nd qualifier.
I'm quite positive that if this continues to go unnoticed until the day of the next qualifier the NA scene is going to erupt in madness over this. People need to let MLG/WCS/whoever know that this is a HORRIBLE plan. It essentially would make any player, chinese, korean or what have you in-eligible for the second qualifier simply because they did not sign up. That means they cannot play in WCS related matches until Season 2. That's basically 3(?) months from now. People need to get this information out there.
@the guy above me: You should read my post.
On April 23 2013 07:39 HobyHarro wrote: The players who were "wronged" aren't locked out of the entire season, they just missed an opportunity to qualify for a special, one time premier league qualifier. There won't be any premier league qualifiers from here on out. There is still the challenger league and its respective qualifier from here on out. I don't doubt that Sundance is sincere in his apology and I am sure MLG will adapt and improve. Regardless it is unfortunate that any of these mistakes happened in the first place.
I appears each region of the WCS has all had their own issues and victories. If they all talked and tried a little harder to co-ordinate and use each others strengths then each region could easily be improved.
whenever something happens like this, something that is negative with MLG, they always fix it and make it a lot better and smoother, i have complete confidence in MLG to fix the problems they had
On April 23 2013 07:39 KingPaddy wrote: Huhh.. after the fourth European qualifier had a 2048 bracket, they expected that 512 places would be enough for everybody?!
well its good that they are sorry but its still a fucked up situation. they could at least let comm compete against the guy who got a free win because they dq'ed him in the final round. That would actually make a difference.
Yeah, I'd prefer to see some action to help alleviate some of the damage they've done instead of an apology. Something productive should come out of this, something to help right the wrongs from the tournament. Also addressing the specific events and how they will be dealt with, and how they were handled would go a long way to placating some of the communities issues.
I doubt a complaint inbox will do much but be filled with spam or trolling responses.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter.
thats just retarded seeing as how wcs eu got 1000+ signups every day previously
#FreeComm2013 I still think they should have let him play. He deserves a spot! He was straight forward with them from the beginning, and plus he might not have fully understood the rules, something might have been lost in translation.
An apology doesn't undo the harm done. Important players are basically excluded from major tournaments all year because of this WCS mess- this isn't entirely MLG's fault though, it's Blizzard's too.
They actually think that one of the most important errors was the bracket transparency? Or are they just playing dumb?
What about outright DQing the Chinese champion after refusing him admittance to the bracket in the first place?
MLG could probably have got Chinese casters to cover the Chinese players they now don't have in their competition, which would have boosted viewership and could have helped them build their brand further.
12 hours for a PR fluff piece. Well done MLG, all is forgiven! Oh wait...
On April 23 2013 07:44 EvanC wrote: Ya, I wanted to see Comm get a spot.
That would be nice, but you shouldn't reward bad behavior. I know it's a shitty scenario but he literally broke the rules.
he did it because he had no choice because of bad admin decisions. that's why the rules aren't set in stone and can be overturned by a competent admin decision. unfortunately MLG does not have people that can man up and make such a decision. only the oh so sorry sundance.
Wow just a generic "we are sorry it will never happen again" letter, not addressing any issue like why did comm not get a pass given the circumstances, why did they only have only one stream, why did they only have 512 spots compared to ELS's 1024+ and the list goes on.
Also it is kinda stupid to say this event was rushed, it was rushed for EU as well, yet they did infinitely better job than MLG.
Oh yeah and he didn't say anything about Challenger dates overlapping with DreamHack. I would say he even failed to explain/apologize...
On April 23 2013 07:49 Inimic wrote: An apology doesn't undo the harm done. Important players are basically excluded from major tournaments all year because of this WCS mess- this isn't entirely MLG's fault though, it's Blizzard's too.
They actually think that one of the most important errors was the bracket transparency? Or are they just playing dumb?
What about outright DQing the Chinese champion after refusing him admittance to the bracket in the first place?
I also feel like the random exclusion of top players renders this qualifier invalid. At least if you want to run a professional tournament of this magnitude. MLG should admit the errors done and rerun everything instead of harming the whole competion that is comming after this.
Some kind of apology is better than no apology at all, but it did definitely gloss over a lot of the controversial things that happened. I recognize that they might not want to call each of those things into light in their official statement, but it's a little disheartening not to see things like Hyun, the Chinese players, etc. even really referenced.
On April 23 2013 07:28 pyrometer wrote: I have seen to many apologies from MLG regarding previous tournaments etc. This qualifier was just over the top in how it affected players to a point where yet another apology and "we will improve" just doesn't cut it any longer. Cancelled my Gold subscription from lapsing over after this weekend and will wait and see how things improve before providing any more money to MLG production.
This is a smart way to address the situation if you don't like what MLG did. Each person should make their own judgements about what happened, so I'm definitely not saying that everyone should cancel their subscriptions or anything like that. I'm just saying that your dollars and your eyeballs are what MLG are most interested in, so whether you give those things to them or not will send the most impactful messages.
On April 23 2013 07:08 Talack wrote: Apologies are good and all, what is being done to fix this situation now?
Sundance is getting good at apologizing but this organization seems to muck it up over and over again. I would have really liked to hear the corrective steps, or a hint towards what that will be, but this will do I suppose. The slight to the Chinese players to me is simply so egregious...
Also there marketeer must have had a complete brainfreeze.. peeps did not want rebroadcasts.. ive read alot of negative feedback over the years about the casting from replay shit that mlg does...
Lets force our MLG businessmodel to the viewers, if they like it or not! /care
Since it was online. It should've been predictable that 512 slots might not be enough. Especially if you consider that NA is the most accessable server worldwide. Every region in the world has a decent connection to NA, while EU - KOR is very bad for example. Therefor it's no surprise that especially in the asian region, a lot of players were interested in participation. I wouldn't blame only MLG for the mistakes, that were made. I think blizzard also needs to do a better job at making sure, that all the money, they invested in this year's WCS, is not invane.
Nice sentiment which seems more than genuine. All though I'm sorry for a lot of the players, I can personally forgive and move forward. As long as MLG can rectify their mistakes in the future and put out a quality product. props mister Sundance, I still like you.
On April 23 2013 07:59 govie wrote: Also there marketeer must have had a complete brainfreeze.. peeps did not want rebroadcasts.. ive read alot of negative feedback over the years about the casting from replay shit that mlg does...
Lets force our MLG businessmodel to the viewers, if they like it or not! /care
it's not like they tried to make everyone pay to play in the open qualifier (or to watch MLGs like last year). MLG tries out how far they can go all the time. their business model has been such a fucking mess for a long time.
if the community outcry gets too big they just backpaddle and apologize.
Pretty quick response, guess they feel heavily under pressure. Should ask ESL for some personnel support. And copy their no mercy rules. Though the no mercy rules might have caused some more outrage in this qualifier hehe. Wish I could also see gray sometimes in this sort of situations.
Not sure if every disqualified person made it to spot 9-40, but rather then ranting people might suggest via email that these 1-3 spots are filled by certain people as a compensation. For example a mini qualifier for those spots played by all who got knocked out by those 2 and didn't reach spot 9-40. Or demand even more. If there is enough demand people might even get Comm directly into the challenger league. Though I think they said that Chinese get an invite to the challenger qualifier anyway, hopefully it was not the person who said they will get safe places in the recent qualifier ^^; .
And if you want to demand something insane, tell em that you want Comm added to a group in Code S. 5 people group with 2 advancing works.
OK great. now redo it. make code s 64 people. qualify the ppl already there. run qualifyers for the other 32 spots. make this a better tourny. give the ppl who got skrewd another chance. use this fomat, but make sure u know who is signing up. I belive this will make a better tourny for all.
On April 23 2013 08:03 JacobShock wrote: Nice sentiment which seems more than genuine. All though I'm sorry for a lot of the players, I can personally forgive and move forward. As long as MLG can rectify their mistakes in the future and put out a quality product. props mister Sundance, I still like you.
Are you seriously buying this? This is as standard of an apology letter as an apology letter can be. It touches on next to none of the issues people had with the event and offers nothing in the way of what they are going to do to try and fix any of this shit. If you look at Mister Sundances tweets you'll also know that this "apology" is just a PR trick with no sincerity behind it at all.
Can MLG make it better in the future? sure but nothing will fix this trainwreck of an event.
Too little too late, how many times are they gonna fuck up and apologize and in the name of promoting esports we are gonna let it slide...? They have been around for 10 years now ? It's not like there are no other organizations out there, it's time for free market to sort it out...
On April 23 2013 07:32 Aerisky wrote: I guess it's too late to do much of anything now. Sundance is a great guy and definitely someone who tries to take into consideration everybody's thoughts and be a accommodating as possible. Good luck going forward.
On April 23 2013 07:33 farvacola wrote: Recognizing that mistakes were made is the first step in moving forward. Good on MLG for the apology; let's hope that the coming WCS NA broadcasts/events show off what was learned.
I always enjoy how things are always "moving forward," but never getting anywhere :D Just like politics.
On April 23 2013 08:03 JacobShock wrote: Nice sentiment which seems more than genuine. All though I'm sorry for a lot of the players, I can personally forgive and move forward. As long as MLG can rectify their mistakes in the future and put out a quality product. props mister Sundance, I still like you.
Are you seriously buying this? This is as standard of an apology letter as an apology letter can be. It touches on next to none of the issues people had with the event and offers nothing in the way of what they are going to do to try and fix any of this shit. If you look at Mister Sundances tweets you'll also know that this "apology" is just a PR trick with no sincerity behind it at all.
Can MLG make it better in the future? sure but nothing will fix this trainwreck of an event.
MLG does have a point; since this is the worst run tournament/qualifier in the history of SC2, the next one will 'most likely' be better, even if they DQ chinese and hide the bracket again :D
On April 23 2013 07:32 Aerisky wrote: I guess it's too late to do much of anything now. Sundance is a great guy and definitely someone who tries to take into consideration everybody's thoughts and be a accommodating as possible. Good luck going forward.
On April 23 2013 07:33 farvacola wrote: Recognizing that mistakes were made is the first step in moving forward. Good on MLG for the apology; let's hope that the coming WCS NA broadcasts/events show off what was learned.
I always enjoy how things are always "moving forward," but never getting anywhere :D Just like life.
On April 23 2013 07:08 Talack wrote: Apologies are good and all, what is being done to fix this situation now?
They are saying they will fix issues.
Fix it through what method? Their definition of fix is likely "not like this happen again at the next one", but how do they make it up to all the people who got screwed by them already? From the way their initial statement appears they are just brushing their shoulders off and calling it a day. Do nothing and hope people forget...If I was one of the Chinese players who got screwed I'd be livid.
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
They get zero credit for putting out a generic apology 24 hours later that deals with none of the issues and doesn't actually have any substance. Anyone could do that, and most people could do it faster.
Hell, they didn't even manage to get their apology out on time. 11 or so hours to write absolutely nothing.
On April 23 2013 08:14 Jochan wrote: Too little too late, how many times are they gonna fuck up and apologize and in the name of promoting esports we are gonna let it slide...? They have been around for 10 years now ? It's not like there are no other organizations out there, it's time for free market to sort it out...
A while back i heard that mlg bought ipl. I dont think there are any chance for any one else to compete with mlg for a long time, and all the pros like mlg... Small cups like homestorycup and ironsquid are still out there but they are cups not tournaments.
This seems pathetic. No real talk of what they are going to do just saying vague, statements and apologies. I think I just need a break from WCS and its drama for the next few weeks.
An apology is obviously warranted and what not. I'm sure everyone though is waiting to hear how any or all of it will be rectified. Just moving forward would seem like the least popular way to go.
Sundance I could throw 5 dollar bills into a crowd of eSports fans and some of you would call me an asshole and ask for 10s
PR text Dear StarCraft Fans:
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
On April 23 2013 07:11 bogderpirat wrote: yeah, this is not enough. i want to see someone get fired over this, the level of disappointment is just too big.
lol
Thanks for stepping up to the plate and issuing a prompt apology. I'm sure things will get better in the future. Cheers -- I'll be watching!
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
Spot the difference!
1) fuck up 2) do nothing 3) feel heat from fans 5) offer generic incomplete apology (Chinese? Meh) 6) repeat step 2 7) complain about esports 8) profit off esports
On April 23 2013 07:11 bogderpirat wrote: yeah, this is not enough. i want to see someone get fired over this, the level of disappointment is just too big.
Well, they cocked up the tournament from the top-down, first by planning not to broadcasting the qualifier than by scrambling to pull together a broadcast at the last minute.
So unless you expect Sundance to fire himself, it ain't going to happen.
On April 23 2013 08:28 zhurai wrote: well. I had enough of apologies without action.
I want to see results/changes (and their past record....)
it looks like, at the very least, the Challenger League Qualifier will be changed and run a bit better. At least I hope (this is going by Slashers recent tweets)
Sundance I could throw 5 dollar bills into a crowd of eSports fans and some of you would call me an asshole and ask for 10s
PR text Dear StarCraft Fans:
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
Spot the difference!
1) fuck up 2) do nothing 3) feel heat from fans 5) offer generic incomplete apology (Chinese? Meh) 6) repeat step 2 7) complain about esports 8) profit off esports
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
They didn't recognize or even acknowledge the things that people are most upset about. Which also means they can't admin to those problems because they don't even know they exist. F u mlg admins and PR.
On April 23 2013 08:26 KaiserKieran wrote: This seems pathetic. No real talk of what they are going to do just saying vague, statements and apologies. I think I just need a break from WCS and its drama for the next few weeks.
Okay quick lesson in PR. Making promises in a public forum is the last thing you want to do if you're not 1000% sure you can keep them. How quickly do you think the backlash would come if they made a bunch of lofty promises and then delivered none of them? Relax; this is their business and they're going to do what ever it takes to fix it. If not, they'll go out of business and someone else will take over to fill the gap. This is the natural order of things, let it just happen.
Best thing you can do as a fan is email them with your criticism/concerns and not just post substance less complaints here.
On April 23 2013 08:26 KaiserKieran wrote: This seems pathetic. No real talk of what they are going to do just saying vague, statements and apologies. I think I just need a break from WCS and its drama for the next few weeks.
Okay quick lesson in PR. Making promises in a public forum is the last thing you want to do if you're not 1000% sure you can keep them. How quickly do you think the backlash would come if they made a bunch of lofty promises and then delivered none of them? Relax; this is their business and they're going to do what ever it takes to fix it. If not, they'll go out of business and someone else will take over to fill the gap. This is the natural order of things, let it just happen.
Best thing you can do as a fan is email them with your criticism/concerns and not just post substance less complaints here.
They made a similar promise before, looks to me like this could be a yearly ordeal with them
I feel like some people are raging just to rage. Others are taking it like MLG just beat up their grandma and tried to pass it off as a tax write-off....
On April 23 2013 07:09 Derez wrote: Well done not mentioning the issues that some of the chinese players faced.
Edit: I understand that its too late to fix the qualifiers, but how about actually making it up to some of the people that got screwed over? Add another round to the next MLG (not WCS) stop and invite all the players that were screwed over somehow to play, or at least make some kind of gesture.
well... you CAN actually blame china for its censorship, as global play was not introduced to china.
We'll I'm happy he apologized, it won't fix any of the problems but it's always nice when someone in power can at least admit when a mistake has been made. What's done is done and there's nothing that can be done about it, but I'm happy he's sorry and apologized rather than pretending nothing went wrong.
Sundance I could throw 5 dollar bills into a crowd of eSports fans and some of you would call me an asshole and ask for 10s
PR text Dear StarCraft Fans:
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
Spot the difference!
1) fuck up 2) do nothing 3) feel heat from fans 5) offer generic incomplete apology (Chinese? Meh) 6) repeat step 2 7) complain about esports 8) profit off esports
Much more than I would have been thinking. I generally dislike apologies. This looks tailor made for the "stick up the ass" community. This is really where the concept of "esports" becomes toxic. The culpability and accountability that MLG has towards "the community" is much lower than most of you think. Did you pay money for this? No? Then be quiet. Yes? Was it reasonably unacceptable? Demand a refund. Was it merely poor quality? Don't buy it next time. MLG doesn't "owe" anyone past this.
As far as the 'not big enough pool' issue, well that kind of sucks but there has to be some limit. On the other hand, the world isn't set up for you to win everything.
All in all, you know next to nothing about this so go watch Madagascar and listen to King Adrien. Shouldn't this have been obvious in the last 2-3 years of starcraft?
Sundance I could throw 5 dollar bills into a crowd of eSports fans and some of you would call me an asshole and ask for 10s
PR text Dear StarCraft Fans:
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
Spot the difference!
1) fuck up 2) do nothing 3) feel heat from fans 5) offer generic incomplete apology (Chinese? Meh) 6) repeat step 2 7) complain about esports 8) profit off esports
Major League Gaming
I'm done buying any of their tickets/products. Viewing experiences/general business practices have been so poor, its simply not worth throwing money in the coffers. I used to pay for all the HD streams but I'm so tired of this guy and his empty words. That website is still absolute trash after the "...I get it....I get it.... I get it..." nonsense. I'll watch the free stuff but that is it.
When I read posts like these, I feel like I should have made my posts even ruder towards you.
I like how he structures his apology like the only problem was the tournament bracket. "First"... are you kidding me? This is the only thing he addressed. If you're going to say "First", better have some other points to going along with it. Either he doesn't know how to speak English, actually is oblivious to everything that happened, or he doesn't care about them. How about the Chinese players, maphackers, and the whole other slew of obvious problems he seems to fix by giving us an email address to write "feedback, suggestions and complaints" to?
Pretty sure MLG is done with whatever happened this WCS Qualifier, as he closes with "making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations".
On April 23 2013 08:38 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I feel like some people are raging just to rage. Others are taking it like MLG just beat up their grandma and tried to pass it off as a tax write-off....
Honestly, if NASL had been given a piece of the pie I think everyone would be a lot more forgiving. There's just this latent uncertainty whats going to happen with that tournament. Combined with some complaints by the Korean players and there's some valid fear that WCS is going to trim competition back a little too much.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter.
Hmm, ESL changed few days before the size of all qualifiers. The last one was even changed 2 times from 512 to 1024 and then from 1024 to "NO LIMIT" Yet, MLG chose to keep a 512 limit while they are in a a region of the same size or maybe even bigger (America + Sea/China)
Anyway, it's good to apologize but I don't see any fix at all here, kinda disappointing tbh I bet in a week or two everything will be forgotten
Sundance I could throw 5 dollar bills into a crowd of eSports fans and some of you would call me an asshole and ask for 10s
PR text Dear StarCraft Fans:
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
Spot the difference!
1) fuck up 2) do nothing 3) feel heat from fans 5) offer generic incomplete apology (Chinese? Meh) 6) repeat step 2 7) complain about esports 8) profit off esports
Major League Gaming
I'm done buying any of their tickets/products. Viewing experiences/general business practices have been so poor, its simply not worth throwing money in the coffers. I used to pay for all the HD streams but I'm so tired of this guy and his empty words. That website is still absolute trash after the "...I get it....I get it.... I get it..." nonsense. I'll watch the free stuff but that is it.
When I read posts like these, I feel like I should have made my posts even ruder towards you.
Actually, it appears I fall directly in the "then don't buy it again category" don't I, since I said I'd stick with the free stuff ? j/k.
Probably did rant a bit too hard there, I admit and I have removed it as such. It wasn't constructive.
Apologies are worthless, the ONLY way to make things right is to redo the qualifier. There were too many irregularities for this to be proclaimed a valid tournament.
Mh an apology for something nonetheless, but not enough at all. Not all problems that accured are handled in his statement. Also waiting for the results they will have after hopefully investigating this clusterfuck of a qualifier.
Seems like zero communication between GSL-ESL-> MLG, so didnt anticipate more than 512 players after u kill several WCS Regions and most of them only have reasonable ping to the US ? Come on it was well known for everyone just thinking a minute about it that China/SEA and other WCS regions will try out in NA, so do atleast some research in advance about these Regions and lookup the Top3-5 placed players for these Regions last years WCS. Make a list of players who cant compete cause of already in EU-Qualifier or GSL Code S, not that HARD.
The players/regions who got fucked over, have to get some compensation like Challengerspots or something alike. Also why not let Comm replay his final match (WCS China Champion should have been in the Bracket anyways from the beginning).
Waiting for MLG to take action and not only do the sweet talk.
On April 23 2013 08:18 Empirimancer wrote: Apologies are useless.
No they're not. Admission of wrong doing is a huge first step in fixing the underlying issue.
It's one thing to type an apology. It's another thing to actually act upon it. I along with many other community members rather hear about the action they're going to take to address these issues and potential other issues that could arise again. So far, we've seen MLG move the broadcast away from DH. The obvious thing to do considering you're chasing viewers. There's one solution.
Well written apology, but still doesn't change anything for the number of people that were screwed over. Not that there's particularly anything I ask of them to rectify it, but this doesn't "let them off the hook" for the stuff that happened.
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
You get credit when you do something, not when you say something.
Yup.
On April 23 2013 09:02 Grobyc wrote: Well written apology, but still doesn't change anything for the number of people that were screwed over. Not that there's particularly anything I ask of them to rectify it, but this doesn't "let them off the hook" for the stuff that happened.
It can only improve from here right... ?
Given their track record I think we'll keep finding ourselves in the woods. Try to keep it in the fairway please. No one likes the rough!
People complain the tournament is too open because it fills up with what amounts to bronzies who take good players spots, and then (sometimes those same people) complain its too closed at that invites or seeds prevent the people who should play to participate. They should not invite people so they can invite the all the "screwed over" people (is there a list?).
On April 23 2013 09:00 Hrrrrm wrote: Don't worry guys the shit storm is still coming. You got screwed in the Premier Qualifier and think you have another chance this season?
There will be a 2nd invite only qualifier next weekend to decide the 16 players entering the challenger league.
9th-40th from the Qualifying Tournament 1, will get an invite the 2nd qualifier.
Should be 4 separate qualifiers where the Top 4 make it in from each. No invites, completely open. Stop with the invite garbage please.
I quite like your suggestion, it makes more sense than what they currently have planned. Hopefully they change it, and implement something similar before next weekend.
On April 23 2013 09:02 Grobyc wrote: Well written apology, but still doesn't change anything for the number of people that were screwed over. Not that there's particularly anything I ask of them to rectify it, but this doesn't "let them off the hook" for the stuff that happened.
It can only improve from here right... ?
Given their track record I think we'll keep finding ourselves in the woods. Try to keep it in the fairway please. No one likes the rough!
Their track record from Dallas 11' to now is actually pretty damn good. Going by that, if your still in the woods it is because your a stubborn tree rooted in your soil of rage.
On April 23 2013 08:57 Luftmensch wrote: Apologies are worthless, the ONLY way to make things right is to redo the qualifier. There were too many irregularities for this to be proclaimed a valid tournament.
On the other hand, those who accept the apology can relax and enjoy the subsequent phases of the WCS.
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
You get credit when you do something, not when you say something.
Yup. They make apologies every time something goes wrong but they rarely fix anything. There is no excuse to not release replays of all the qualifiers. Sure they said sorry that we only had 512 spots- but how does that help anyone. All the Chinese players got fucked, a bunch of australians as well. MLG has always played the popularity game and always favored popular players over skilled players. The repeatedly try to force replay casts down our throats and it pisses everyone off- even their own casters dont like it. Axeltoss has said it is really, really hard for them to get excited because they already know the results.
The guys at MLG dont even pretend to like starcraft nor do they take the time to learn the scene. Dreamhack and ESL clearly looks at the scene and picks good maps, brings up new casters, and for the most part they always run good tournaments. MLG has always had terrible relations with the sc2 community and their sc2 tournament director clearly has no idea about starcraft. I mean they were using Antiga Shipyard and TALDARIM FUCKING ALTAR at MLG Dallas in NOVEMBER 2012!
TLDR: MLG gives no shits about the community. Popular players always have a place with them over skilled players.
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
You get credit when you do something, not when you say something.
Yup.
On April 23 2013 09:02 Grobyc wrote: Well written apology, but still doesn't change anything for the number of people that were screwed over. Not that there's particularly anything I ask of them to rectify it, but this doesn't "let them off the hook" for the stuff that happened.
It can only improve from here right... ?
Given their track record I think we'll keep finding ourselves in the woods. Try to keep it in the fairway please. No one likes the rough!
Their track record from Dallas 11' to now is actually pretty damn good. Going by that, if your still in the woods it is because your a stubborn tree rooted in your soil of rage.
I could list a lot more than that and if you call that rage. Gee, you've seen nothing yet.
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
You get credit when you do something, not when you say something.
Yup.
On April 23 2013 09:02 Grobyc wrote: Well written apology, but still doesn't change anything for the number of people that were screwed over. Not that there's particularly anything I ask of them to rectify it, but this doesn't "let them off the hook" for the stuff that happened.
It can only improve from here right... ?
Given their track record I think we'll keep finding ourselves in the woods. Try to keep it in the fairway please. No one likes the rough!
Their track record from Dallas 11' to now is actually pretty damn good. Going by that, if your still in the woods it is because your a stubborn tree rooted in your soil of rage.
I could list a lot more than that and if you call that rage. Gee, you've seen nothing yet.
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
You get credit when you do something, not when you say something.
Yup.
On April 23 2013 09:02 Grobyc wrote: Well written apology, but still doesn't change anything for the number of people that were screwed over. Not that there's particularly anything I ask of them to rectify it, but this doesn't "let them off the hook" for the stuff that happened.
It can only improve from here right... ?
Given their track record I think we'll keep finding ourselves in the woods. Try to keep it in the fairway please. No one likes the rough!
Their track record from Dallas 11' to now is actually pretty damn good. Going by that, if your still in the woods it is because your a stubborn tree rooted in your soil of rage.
You probably missed a lot of stuff.
Personally i enjoyed the 5 idra series on a row just because "they only had 1 set of computers to stream and noone got the balls to ask idra to move or something". It was almost as glorious as the starcraft 2 world champion thread, many people rooting against idra so we could just watch something else. Minor mistakes i know, but hilarious ones when you take into account WHY they happened.
On April 23 2013 08:57 Luftmensch wrote: Apologies are worthless, the ONLY way to make things right is to redo the qualifier. There were too many irregularities for this to be proclaimed a valid tournament.
On the other hand, those who accept the apology can relax and enjoy the subsequent phases of the WCS.
Exaggerating to make a point incoming: "We're sorry for the mistakes made in the voting process, we're aware of them and will try to avoid making such mistakes in the future." But voting doesn't get declared invalid and candidates who got less votes than others get to keep their wrongfully acquired seat in congress. Would you just relax?
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
You get credit when you do something, not when you say something.
Yup. They make apologies every time something goes wrong but they rarely fix anything.
For rarely fixing anything, they sure put out a shitload of excellent content these past couple years, and many of their events have been some of the best in the scene.
Don't get me wrong, this past weekend was handled like shit, but MLG has a pretty good track record if one does not succumb to pouty child syndrome.
Well they admitted this tournament was a complete clusterF**k and YET, somehow, this tournament is going be used for the Challenger series... GG... No RE
An apology that didn't really address any of the actual issues. Guess they're not going to fix any of the mistakes, just kind of half-assedly acknowledge them.
On April 23 2013 09:00 Hrrrrm wrote: Don't worry guys the shit storm is still coming. You got screwed in the Premier Qualifier and think you have another chance this season?
There will be a 2nd invite only qualifier next weekend to decide the 16 players entering the challenger league.
9th-40th from the Qualifying Tournament 1, will get an invite the 2nd qualifier.
Should be 4 separate qualifiers where the Top 4 make it in from each. No invites, completely open. Stop with the invite garbage please.
So chinese/Sea players that couldnt get in because of the 512 limit cant join the challenger qualifier?
Not to mention players like Catz who loses to a hacker, and now cant try to qualify for challenger?, Or playersthat lost to hyun or comm, other dq'd players.
On April 23 2013 08:20 critique wrote: Credit where its due; recognizing and admitting the problems is exactly the right thing to do. Thanks Sundance.
You get credit when you do something, not when you say something.
Yup.
On April 23 2013 09:02 Grobyc wrote: Well written apology, but still doesn't change anything for the number of people that were screwed over. Not that there's particularly anything I ask of them to rectify it, but this doesn't "let them off the hook" for the stuff that happened.
It can only improve from here right... ?
Given their track record I think we'll keep finding ourselves in the woods. Try to keep it in the fairway please. No one likes the rough!
Their track record from Dallas 11' to now is actually pretty damn good. Going by that, if your still in the woods it is because your a stubborn tree rooted in your soil of rage.
I could list a lot more than that and if you call that rage. Gee, you've seen nothing yet.
Go for it.
Remember the time they changed their pricing model and how they announced it to their subscribers?
On April 23 2013 09:00 Hrrrrm wrote: Don't worry guys the shit storm is still coming. You got screwed in the Premier Qualifier and think you have another chance this season?
Think again.
On April 20 2013 02:01 MLG Deimos wrote:
There will be a 2nd invite only qualifier next weekend to decide the 16 players entering the challenger league.
9th-40th from the Qualifying Tournament 1, will get an invite the 2nd qualifier.
Should be 4 separate qualifiers where the Top 4 make it in from each. No invites, completely open. Stop with the invite garbage please.
So chinese/Sea players that couldnt get in because of the 512 limit cant join the challenger qualifier?
Not to mention players like Catz who loses to a hacker, and now cant try to qualify for challenger?, Or playersthat lost to hyun or comm, other dq'd players.
MLG has a pretty solid record of making mistakes and then fixing them. Best example was them going out and buying a satellite truck after that failed MLG (Dallas?). I'll agree it's a tiresome pattern but the product has continued to improve ...
MLG fucked up badly in a way that hugely affected player's careers and in China's case, an entire scene. Yet it's not even mentioned in their generic apology. Blizzard chose such a shitty partner just for the brand recognition and it just did immediate and irreparable damage to the scene. It was obvious this would happen which is the most upsetting thing about it. Blizzard have good intentions but they are really obviously too incompetent to be running the scene. We were better off without them.
Kudos for actually making a statement, i suppose. But you aren't even acknowledging or addressing the issues that the community is most upset about.. Not only that but you title it "How we will improve" but give no examples of what you are doing to improve! So, to me, you still don't have a clue what went wrong or how to improve it. Disappointing to say the least.
I feel bad for MLG they made some pretty big mistakes but why is blizzard not saying/doing anything to help especially when they just hired all of IPL who have a lot of esports experience.
Hopefully something can be done to some of the players who missed out, mainly the Chinese guys with some code A seeds or something,
On April 23 2013 10:04 Laryleprakon wrote: I feel bad for MLG they made some pretty big mistakes but why is blizzard not saying/doing anything to help especially when they just hired all of IPL who have a lot of esports experience.
Hopefully something can be done to some of the players who missed out, mainly the Chinese guys with some code A seeds or something,
or maybe they could not make the challenger division qualifiers invite only and just use the results of this first qualifier for seeding so ranks 9-40 dont run into each other early in the bracket. as it stands now, 32 people are in the challenger division qualifier, and 16 qualify... so you only play 1 game.
it was originally slated to be a 256 player qualifier with the top 16 making it. even that would be better, although not ideal.
MLG really needs to have some competition in the esports area. If 3 months is not enough time to get ready for an event like this, how was the EU able to do it?
Apologies like this make me sad and disappointed. An email address for suggestions, when your organization is suppose to be the PRO's at esports? Maybe KesPa can have an american company?
On April 23 2013 07:04 Badfatpanda wrote: This message was posted on MLG's site a few minutes ago, since no previously existing thread on the matter has added this I deemed it relevant to make a new post:
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Yeah...does Sundance actually know where the problems lie?
So, here's what I got from our letter:
1) Sorry guys, Blizzard's fault for the rush. 2) More people signed up for the tournament than we thought. 3) Didn't have enough admins. 4) Sorry about trying to gag our players when they're playing Online qualifiers. 5) Feedback email that they promise they'll read. 6) Apologies. 7) Apologies 8) I swear I mean it.
Did....did he just make a few paragraphs that said "Yeah, our fault, but Blizzard guys. C'mon, I mean really."
1) Blizzard has been negotiating with you for ages, and there's no way I'll believe any different. They are a multi-billion dollar company. They fuck up, but they wouldn't fuck up that bad. Arguing "We didn't have time!" is nonsense when ESL pulled off WCS EU. Comparatively, it's like ESL has been doing for this 11 years and you've been...wait. You've been doing this for 11 years too.
2) WCS NA WAS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO HAVE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE SIGN UP. In what world does MLG live in where China, Korea, and all of the Americas don't put forward enough people to at least warrant a massive 2000+ player tournament like WCS EU? We've been bitching for weeks that WCS NA will just get swamped by Korea rejects and Chinese players who need a non-GSL to play in and prove themselves. Does MLG live in some world where these aren't facts? Because they've been facts since WCS was announced to have no region-lock.
3) You are motherfucking MLG. You didn't have enough admins? Why? Oh, that's right, because you're MLG. Who do you have planning these events? Because they should have a sticky note cemented to their forehead that reads "512 man tournament needs more admins than a goddamn MLG Open Bracket."
4) Threatening players with DQ for spoilers is laughable, considering you know by now how we as a community feels about casting from replays. TSL4 arguable did half as well as it could have because of the replay issue. NO ONE LIKES CASTING FROM REPLAYS THAT HAPPENED A WEEK AGO. TSL4 learned that lesson so that, in a world where everyone pays attention, no one else had to. But they didn't count on the fact that this is MLG, and MLG apparently can't learn from mistakes.
What's even worse is that MLG has in the past been yelled at for casting from replays, and people from MLG have said "Yeah, we know it's not optimal." But they had planned to do this all from replays to begin with, and threw together an online broadcast when they realized that this is motherfucking WCS NA. You can't do that kind of shit for Blizzard's premier tournament. So they slapped something together and tried to defend the horseshit. Which is admirable, but...actually kind of insulting.
5-8) I'm sorry, but MLG apologies mean nothing anymore. Two years ago you had the "We're noobs to SC2 and ESPORTS!" argument. Hell, I backed you up on it. I remember watching Jinro win that first SC2 MLG and marking the fuck out. But you're three years in by now, with how many overall years of experience with Halo and COD and whatnot?
It is infuriatingly tiresome to sit through this process. MLG does something, and either does it well-enough or fucks up. MLG apologies, tries to act like they're still noobs and are learning, and promises to do better. Rinse, repeat, and add in a few "Hey guys, seriously, sorry"s until Reddit forgets.
What about Catz? What about China? What about those highly questionable invites? Inviting Koreans from foreign teams is one thing, but inviting players from teams like IM? Really? And inviting complete nonsense players, but ignoring Demuslim? You had promised a response on Twitter about that, did we ever get around to it? Or are you seriously going to stand there and defend not inviting a member of Evil Geniuses, number 1 NA ladder, and overall community approved to be better than half of your actual invites?
I'm sorry MLG, but I'm pretty sure I'm done. I'm tired of the fuck ups, the broken promises, and the just general "Oh shit, gotta apologize again" treatment we seem to get from you guys. I was already livid about no region-lock, but was willing to give it a shot if the tournament was held at least somewhat competently. Apparently that was much too much to ask for.
On April 23 2013 10:30 ohampatu wrote: wow, what a complete post full of shit
This could literally be applied as any 'pr statement'. You didn't put a single piece of meat in the post, just said sorry.
Reinstaed Comm, or DQ Shuttle..or at least give us something, what are you doing to fix the wrongs caused a simple sorry is not enough
I dont see how DQing Shuttle from a qualifier he didn't win would do anything. He switched in to his spot from someone else in qualifier 3. He qualified in #4. Sure I guess you could say it's for consistency but it doesnt really do anything.
On April 23 2013 10:30 ohampatu wrote: wow, what a complete post full of shit
This could literally be applied as any 'pr statement'. You didn't put a single piece of meat in the post, just said sorry.
Reinstaed Comm, or DQ Shuttle..or at least give us something, what are you doing to fix the wrongs caused a simple sorry is not enough
I dont see how DQing Shuttle from a qualifier he didn't win would do anything. He switched in to his spot from someone else in qualifier 3. He qualified in #4. Sure I guess you could say it's for consistency but it doesnt really do anything.
i can name like 6 players who broke rules without any punishment
they need to make it up to comm somehow if they aren't going to be fair and treat the same situation the same way give him an mlg spot next time or something, but this fuckup could screw him up for multiple seasons, he deserves something if they aren't going to be fair about the dq's
On April 23 2013 10:30 ohampatu wrote: wow, what a complete post full of shit
This could literally be applied as any 'pr statement'. You didn't put a single piece of meat in the post, just said sorry.
Reinstaed Comm, or DQ Shuttle..or at least give us something, what are you doing to fix the wrongs caused a simple sorry is not enough
I dont see how DQing Shuttle from a qualifier he didn't win would do anything. He switched in to his spot from someone else in qualifier 3. He qualified in #4. Sure I guess you could say it's for consistency but it doesnt really do anything.
i can name like 6 players who broke rules without any punishment
they need to make it up to comm somehow if they aren't going to be fair and treat the same situation the same way give him an mlg spot next time or something, but this fuckup could screw him up for multiple seasons, he deserves something if they aren't going to be fair about the dq's
Oh I agree that something needs to be done about Comm. I just dont get the Shuttle argument because it actually has no affect on any of the qualifications.
On a certain level, Sundance is in trouble because he comes off as what he is, a marketing guy who by the nature of his job comes off slightly sleazy. If you had someone lovable like Rotti or Apollo issuing the same apology then there would be a lot more buy in from the public.
O well, the real lesson here is Blizzard's attempt at 'unifying' the scene backfired. If they had held a tournament of organizers, where MLG had to compete against NASL in organizing the event and the winner gets exclusive rights for a year then we'd see real effort.
On April 23 2013 10:30 ohampatu wrote: wow, what a complete post full of shit
This could literally be applied as any 'pr statement'. You didn't put a single piece of meat in the post, just said sorry.
Reinstaed Comm, or DQ Shuttle..or at least give us something, what are you doing to fix the wrongs caused a simple sorry is not enough
I dont see how DQing Shuttle from a qualifier he didn't win would do anything. He switched in to his spot from someone else in qualifier 3. He qualified in #4. Sure I guess you could say it's for consistency but it doesnt really do anything.
i can name like 6 players who broke rules without any punishment
they need to make it up to comm somehow if they aren't going to be fair and treat the same situation the same way give him an mlg spot next time or something, but this fuckup could screw him up for multiple seasons, he deserves something if they aren't going to be fair about the dq's
Oh I agree that something needs to be done about Comm. I just dont get the Shuttle argument because it actually has no affect on any of the qualifications.
people are using Shuttle as an excuse to show how MLG should have handled the situation, nobody wants him dq'd they both just had the same exact thing happen to them, and yet one got to play and the other didn't we are using it to show how mlg should have copied what esl did
theres been so much confusion with WCS from the start, I'm not surprised... something like this was bound to happen. the apology, as rudimentary as it sounds, is at least something. although the lack of real actions doesnt give much hope that something like this wont happen again.
On April 23 2013 10:30 ohampatu wrote: wow, what a complete post full of shit
This could literally be applied as any 'pr statement'. You didn't put a single piece of meat in the post, just said sorry.
Reinstaed Comm, or DQ Shuttle..or at least give us something, what are you doing to fix the wrongs caused a simple sorry is not enough
I dont see how DQing Shuttle from a qualifier he didn't win would do anything. He switched in to his spot from someone else in qualifier 3. He qualified in #4. Sure I guess you could say it's for consistency but it doesnt really do anything.
i can name like 6 players who broke rules without any punishment
they need to make it up to comm somehow if they aren't going to be fair and treat the same situation the same way give him an mlg spot next time or something, but this fuckup could screw him up for multiple seasons, he deserves something if they aren't going to be fair about the dq's
Oh I agree that something needs to be done about Comm. I just dont get the Shuttle argument because it actually has no affect on any of the qualifications.
people are using Shuttle as an excuse to show how MLG should have handled the situation, nobody wants him dq'd they both just had the same exact thing happen to them, and yet one got to play and the other didn't we are using it to show how mlg should have copied what esl did
oh ok well that makes more sense. I've seen multiple people posting that shuttle should get dqed and that targa should get his place or something and i was like wat
I find it sad that my company's customer service department responds more sincerely and more detailed than the "apology" in the OP post. It really makes me wonder where all of MLG money's going into. In today's service-oriented business world, it's ridiculous how they can be so bad in this area.
On April 23 2013 10:04 Laryleprakon wrote: I feel bad for MLG they made some pretty big mistakes but why is blizzard not saying/doing anything to help especially when they just hired all of IPL who have a lot of esports experience.
Hopefully something can be done to some of the players who missed out, mainly the Chinese guys with some code A seeds or something,
or maybe they could not make the challenger division qualifiers invite only and just use the results of this first qualifier for seeding so ranks 9-40 dont run into each other early in the bracket. as it stands now, 32 people are in the challenger division qualifier, and 16 qualify... so you only play 1 game.
it was originally slated to be a 256 player qualifier with the top 16 making it. even that would be better, although not ideal.
Yea, I just hope they use a lot of the feedback they get and really do a good job with the challenger qualifier, if it is just the 9-40th people and they say it will all be changed for season 2 I will be sad.
Quality > Quantity. They should have just began WCS 2013 half-way through the year. Hell, Blizzard loves that whole "When it's ready!!11" motto. Why would abandon it?
While it will leave quite a bitter taste for many, I think most people will get over their (very clear) faults. They are still better than EA for actually responding and addressing (well, sort of) the problems at hand.
On April 23 2013 10:54 Blargh wrote: Quality > Quantity. They should have just began WCS 2013 half-way through the year. Hell, Blizzard loves that whole "When it's ready!!11" motto. Why would abandon it?
While it will leave quite a bitter taste for many, I think most people will get over their (very clear) faults. They are still better than EA for actually responding and addressing (well, sort of) the problems at hand.
Blizzard is GREAT at making games.
Outside of that ... they are not so good.
I think their main motive for jamming this together so fast.. was to make sure SC2 was on TV in Korea 5 days per week. If someone knows more about this please jump in.
On April 23 2013 10:54 Blargh wrote: Quality > Quantity. They should have just began WCS 2013 half-way through the year. Hell, Blizzard loves that whole "When it's ready!!11" motto. Why would abandon it?
While it will leave quite a bitter taste for many, I think most people will get over their (very clear) faults. They are still better than EA for actually responding and addressing (well, sort of) the problems at hand.
Because their new motto is, "if it's not broken, break it! That way when we fix it we'll look like geniuses!" Look at bnet, you cant even right click on someone's name anymore -.-;; and where is dat name change? People are actually BEGGING to pay blizzard money to have a name change, i mean props to blizzard when they can actually have people beg to give them money
The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
Fruits Basket played the first round I thought then handed it off to Comm afterwards. IF it was Comm playing the whole time, thats one thing, but 2 different people playing 1 account in a tournament is shady just in principle.
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No not everyone think the same like u!
Comm and many others should have got a secured spot in the 512man bracket like other NA pros did. And so MLG fucked up, even after the Teammanager contacted a MLG-Admin in advance and got the response that they are OK, and ready to go! So i dont see much problem with Comm just resorting to the last chance he had cause of incompentent, lying and not fast enough responding Admins (cause it seems they are: 1.Not informed of WCS-Regions from Year 2012 and their Champions or Top finisher. 2.Were way too few Admins there to begin with to handle something at this scale 3.After finding out cant make a proper decision based on the fuckups they already did). Ur fucked in WCS if u didnt even get into challenger in Season1 for this year as an established pro, they needed the exposure/money they could have got to plan this year in advance or get sponsors etc. theres alot on the line for these people. Thats all cause their ChallengerQualifier is somewhat Invite only based on the Premier (fucked up, maybe not even legitimate qualifier anymore) Qualifier...
So i think MLG did as bad as they couldve possibly done, cause they just didnt put enough manpower behind this WCS project at all. I hope they now pay for it, cause u cant tell me u didnt expect more than 512player to sign up... no excuses here!
I hope the Chinese, Australia and any other screwed over Regions get some kind of "compensation" for this.
Wait why is this becoming a Blizzard hating thread now? Blizzard trusted MLG with their project, they did it the way they though best, and they made some horrible mistakes. How is this Blizzard's fault?
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
Fruits Basket played the first round I thought then handed it off to Comm afterwards. IF it was Comm playing the whole time, thats one thing, but 2 different people playing 1 account in a tournament is shady just in principle.
Thats not how it went down, Comm played every game, just under his friends (MLG) account, he was open about it right from the start
On April 23 2013 11:27 mordk wrote: Wait why is this becoming a Blizzard hating thread now? Blizzard trusted MLG with their project, they did it the way they though best, and they made some horrible mistakes. How is this Blizzard's fault?
It's like if an employee messes up, the supervisor gets in trouble. Yes MLG ran it. Yes MLG screwed it up. But ultimately it's Blizzard's WCS.
In this thread: People who don't understand the concept of giving the benefit of the doubt. These guys have put on dozens of successful tournaments. You think that they just decided to slack off when it came to the biggest tournament prestige wise that they've ever run? FFS they're trying and I 100% guarantee it's going to get better. Calling for people to be fired is just asinine and childish.
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
Fruits Basket played the first round I thought then handed it off to Comm afterwards. IF it was Comm playing the whole time, thats one thing, but 2 different people playing 1 account in a tournament is shady just in principle.
Don't misleading again please. It's comm playing from the start and he is quite frank from the start. Even the opponents and casters know it's Comm playing. So stop making excuses for MLG.
On April 23 2013 08:03 JacobShock wrote: Nice sentiment which seems more than genuine. All though I'm sorry for a lot of the players, I can personally forgive and move forward. As long as MLG can rectify their mistakes in the future and put out a quality product. props mister Sundance, I still like you.
Are you seriously buying this? This is as standard of an apology letter as an apology letter can be. It touches on next to none of the issues people had with the event and offers nothing in the way of what they are going to do to try and fix any of this shit. If you look at Mister Sundances tweets you'll also know that this "apology" is just a PR trick with no sincerity behind it at all.
Can MLG make it better in the future? sure but nothing will fix this trainwreck of an event.
Exactly. This is a standard apology letter that can be used in any situation. It states nothing and it apologize for nothing. It didn't touch the surface of the actual mistakes and how they gonna fix and prevent it. It this is the attitude of MLG. I would personally guarantee that they will messed it up happened again and again.
Great to hear. Its human to fail, and I am sure you will get it right. There is always room for improvement, but I also feel you shouldn't feel to bad about this. The criticism is maybe a bit to drastic, but maybe thats just me.
They fucked up and owned it. There's really nothing more you can ask, except maybe a gesture to pro's who got edged out by people who play like me (and logistically, that's just not possible).
But hey, if you've got the time and energy to hold a grudge, good for you. I sure don't.
We are waiting for the actions, not this kind of PR statements talking something really big and bureaucratically. It's over 24 hrs after the last match and it came out just a CEO's statement like this.
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
Fruits Basket played the first round I thought then handed it off to Comm afterwards. IF it was Comm playing the whole time, thats one thing, but 2 different people playing 1 account in a tournament is shady just in principle.
Thats not how it went down, Comm played every game, just under his friends (MLG) account, he was open about it right from the start
I wish people would stop saying this. He was not open from the start.
On April 23 2013 11:27 mordk wrote: Wait why is this becoming a Blizzard hating thread now? Blizzard trusted MLG with their project, they did it the way they though best, and they made some horrible mistakes. How is this Blizzard's fault?
It's like if an employee messes up, the supervisor gets in trouble. Yes MLG ran it. Yes MLG screwed it up. But ultimately it's Blizzard's WCS.
The supervisor would only get in trouble if he chose a person poorly for the job, or planned a bad project or something like that, or if he failed to supervise. In this case, it's all on MLG in my opinion, they are an organization who regularly deals with tournaments this size or bigger, from Blizzard's POV, it was a more than correct choice of partner.
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
Fruits Basket played the first round I thought then handed it off to Comm afterwards. IF it was Comm playing the whole time, thats one thing, but 2 different people playing 1 account in a tournament is shady just in principle.
no, Comm played every single game their was a misconception that he didn't play first round, but I thought that was cleared up and everybody saw it he played every single match, he should have never been DQ'd in the first place, i haven't seen anybody saying he shoulda been dq'd earlier
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
Fruits Basket played the first round I thought then handed it off to Comm afterwards. IF it was Comm playing the whole time, thats one thing, but 2 different people playing 1 account in a tournament is shady just in principle.
Thats not how it went down, Comm played every game, just under his friends (MLG) account, he was open about it right from the start
I wish people would stop saying this. He was not open from the start.
Hell, even in his post that was translated he said that Fruitsbasket wanted to keep it a secret.
everybody but one of his opponents apparently knew the admins knew, the casters new, the production team knew, all for over 5 hours it just appears 1 of his opponents didn't know
and his friend wanted to keep a secret, but in the post your referencing he explains that he didn't keep it secret, he went to the admins anyway
edit: sorry for double post, tried to put them both together but fucked it up
Wait a minute....this "apology" took a whole morning to write/?? He makes no mentions of the key issues with the qualifiers and also indirectly shifts blame to Blizzard. He sure gets it.
So is this how MLG does things? Do a half-ass job with little to no planning or communication. If things fuck up, Sundance will write an apology and sweep everything under the rug. Rinse and repeat.
Well I feel a lot better. It always feels good when you're voice is heard. Hopefully he keeps good on the promise and they avoid these mistakes in the future.
Man this could have been written in 5 minutes. What a statement. I hope they don't continue with their 9-40 from Premiere Qualifiers invited to Challenger Qualifiers. It should be either open or they invite the pro players who were left out of the Permiere Qualifiers as well(the least they could do imo). Shame WCS gets screwed up like this. At the end of the day I admit I will not care too much for this mess and just follow my fav team/players like usual. But its sad to see the integrity of the tournament somewhat ruined like this.
Put me square in the "what are you going to do about it?" camp. Apologies are nice, but there were some major fuckups with THIS tournament (not future ones) that need to be rectified.
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
Fruits Basket played the first round I thought then handed it off to Comm afterwards. IF it was Comm playing the whole time, thats one thing, but 2 different people playing 1 account in a tournament is shady just in principle.
Don't misleading again please. It's comm playing from the start and he is quite frank from the start. Even the opponents and casters know it's Comm playing. So stop making excuses for MLG.
I wasnt aware he had played all his games, so I apologize for my misconception. But just because I think while MLG screwed a number of things up, this bandwagon hate circlejerk is stupid. Nothing constructive is coming of this and its certainly not helping anyone. I would rather see posts on exactly what MLG ought to do moving forward with logical reasoning (and some posters have done this, but most haven't) instead of all this emotional kneejerk stuff.
On April 23 2013 07:11 Archile wrote: apologies are great and all, but a lot of these problems should have been anticipated before the event, and it seemed more like intentional sloppiness rather than simple mistakes
nonetheless, thank you for the apology MLG, and I hope the quality of your work improves.
Yes I hear organizations pride themselves in intentionally making mistakes...
What a stupid use of wording, please rephrase, it's a ridiculous statement to imply they intentionally made mistakes to hurt their enterprise.
I realise this is kind of a dead horse & dealt with already, but I created an image on what I feel clearly demonstrates why a single 512 player bracket isn't enough. Basically, WCS America has become the unofficial second home to many countries that no longer have a WCS in 2013. My main disappointment is that I can't follow the people from my region due to either not making the 512 player cut-off, or in the case of the very few that did make it, getting very limited stream time.
At this point in time, I'm just praying to god mOOnGLaDe doesn't need to play his games at 3:00am.
On April 23 2013 11:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: The chinese incident is that Comm took over for FruitsBasket after round one and continued to play as FruitsBasket, then got DQ'd 1 round from qualifying? Everyone is in agreement that comm should have DQ'd, but sooner right? How did they figure out it was Comm in the first place? Could they have even found out sooner? If not what should the penalty have been because having a pro take over all push your account through a major tourney is pretty messed up. It screws up the integrity of the tournament from such a late DQ due to Zero tolerance for pro mercenary type work, but shouldnt people be pissed at Comm for doing this?
Comm not getting in over a bronzie sucks, but how are his actions even justifiable? If I can't play, I'll pretend to be someone who can? Even if the rules were not precisely translated too him, this seems like a pretty basic "dont do it" concept.
Or do people think MLG should have just let it slide and just ignore it? It would have to be obvious eventually since instead of Fruits Basket showing up to the live matches, Comm would.
No one would have been surprised.... He was open about it from the beginning that he was Comm. DQing him in the last possible round although they had a flexible rule, especially with that backstory, was just the worst possible decision.
Fruits Basket played the first round I thought then handed it off to Comm afterwards. IF it was Comm playing the whole time, thats one thing, but 2 different people playing 1 account in a tournament is shady just in principle.
Don't misleading again please. It's comm playing from the start and he is quite frank from the start. Even the opponents and casters know it's Comm playing. So stop making excuses for MLG.
I wasnt aware he had played all his games, so I apologize for my misconception. But just because I think while MLG screwed a number of things up, this bandwagon hate circlejerk is stupid. Nothing constructive is coming of this and its certainly not helping anyone. I would rather see posts on exactly what MLG ought to do moving forward with logical reasoning (and some posters have done this, but most haven't) instead of all this emotional kneejerk stuff.
Nothing productive is happening period..... That's why there is a bandwagon of hate. There's a lot of speculation and have been a lot of suggestions over what MLG could do, and there are a lot of options as well. The problem, however, is that they are an organization that doesn't fix their mistakes.
Even is the CEO's apology entitled "How We Will Improve", Sundance only admits to mistakes and states that they are only going to fix the fact that they withheld results, which actually isn't much of a big deal.. Everything else they did they just realized was a fuck up but never hinted that anything surrounding the situation will be changed or fixed.
You're just being too defensive for an organization that is supposed to be important but has proven over the long course of it's history to be too flawed to maintain such a distinguished status. By this I mean, it's one thing to fuck up as a small organization and then say you're going to do better, but it's something totally different to be the premier organization on this side of the planet and fuck up consistently.
I like MLG and I had great expectations for them. I thought others might have doubted their capabilities too soon, however I was the one who overestimated their ability to run this particular event.
It's nice that they apologized about this and recognized that they screwed up, but pretty much all the major issues (hackers, Chinese players, etc) haven't been addressed yet.
Jeez, everyone just needs to chill out. Yes MLG messed up, but at least I wasn't put to sleep by how horribly boring the production was, like in the WCS Europe qualifiers. Just because the NASL crew got their panties in a bunch because they weren't invited to the party doesn't mean everyone has to go crying to their mommy. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion, but I guess that's what I should come to expect from the Starcraft community nowadays.
On April 23 2013 13:09 Ingenero wrote: Jeez, everyone just needs to chill out. Yes MLG messed up, but at least I wasn't put to sleep by how horribly boring the production was, like in the WCS Europe qualifiers. Just because the NASL crew got their panties in a bunch because they weren't invited to the party doesn't mean everyone has to go crying to their mommy. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion, but I guess that's what I should come to expect from the Starcraft community nowadays.
WCS Europe was MUCH MUCH better than WCS AM. We saw innovative play xD.
On April 23 2013 13:09 Ingenero wrote: Jeez, everyone just needs to chill out. Yes MLG messed up, but at least I wasn't put to sleep by how horribly boring the production was, like in the WCS Europe qualifiers. Just because the NASL crew got their panties in a bunch because they weren't invited to the party doesn't mean everyone has to go crying to their mommy. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion, but I guess that's what I should come to expect from the Starcraft community nowadays.
This is a pretty big deal for a lot of people, many of these people enter tournaments as their livelihood. Being denied out of Challenger league means it could take 2-3 seasons before you even make it to Premiere league and stand a chance at making real money.
On April 23 2013 13:09 Ingenero wrote: Jeez, everyone just needs to chill out. Yes MLG messed up, but at least I wasn't put to sleep by how horribly boring the production was, like in the WCS Europe qualifiers.
I'd say the production value was very unprofessional considering that much of the tournament was poorly organized before competition even began.
On April 23 2013 13:09 Ingenero wrote: Just because the NASL crew got their panties in a bunch because they weren't invited to the party doesn't mean everyone has to go crying to their mommy.
I'm about 100% confident that people are not complaining because some casters stated their opinion. I think people are upset in general because professional gamers were essentially beat out by diamond players and hackers.
On April 23 2013 13:09 Ingenero wrote: This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion, but I guess that's what I should come to expect from the Starcraft community nowadays.
If I lost a few months of potential success at my job because of administrative issues, cheaters, and people clearly less qualified than me, I'd admittedly be extremely upset--especially considering I put my life into it. I don't think any of the reactions from people here are blown out of proportion at all. In fact, I think this type of integrity and honesty from the community is very much what eSports (and any sport or profession) needs in general.
EDIT: With regards to the "apology", I agree with most people. The apology and addressing future WCS America operations is not really improving the current situation. In fact, helping the situation would've been to address these issues prior to the WCS NA Qualifiers. Indicating that Blizzard has a short timeline essentially means you have a goal to hit. And clearly, the goal was hit, just at the expense of the professional players and also the community. Well done, MLG--at least you did things on time, and thanks for sharing the results that we all knew already.
On April 23 2013 13:35 lisward wrote: Very well written and sincere apology, hope there is follow up though...
Of course not, it's MLG. They just admit to some mistakes and forget about the others but fix nothing...consistently. And if you think that is sincere, you haven't followed Sundance much.
unbelievable MLG apologize to audience and players. And they only broadcasted one match of Chinese player.But 3 players entered the final round. Can't imagine how mlg broadcaster thought
On April 23 2013 13:35 lisward wrote: Very well written and sincere apology, hope there is follow up though...
It's well written all right, since a lot of people seem to buy it, but how do you know it's sincere?
I mean, I'm sure he sincerely wishes his employees' and his fuck-ups hadn't become so widely known, but what makes you think he'll do anything to fix things not only for next time, but for every single upcoming tournament his company organizes?
It's not like MLG is new at organizing tournaments. And it's not like it was impossible to do better for the first WCS, since WCS Europe went much better. If MLG didn't make an effort this time despite their vast experience, why would they make one next time, and all the times after that, assuming Blizzard has a binding contract with them for WCS and therefore they're not really afraid of losing viewers?
I don't understand why people are so upset with the apology. They seem to be saying that "it's just a blurb of empty words that doesn't change anything". What else do people expect? The qualifiers are already done, there is nothing that can be done. We can only hope that MLG learns from this mistake and improves next time. The least Sundance could've done was to issue a formal apology for the fiasco, which he did. And we all know that if he didn't issue an apology, people would be complaining that there was no apology -.-
On April 23 2013 14:14 Holdenintherye wrote: I don't understand why people are so upset with the apology. They seem to be saying that "it's just a blurb of empty words that doesn't change anything". What else do people expect? The qualifiers are already done, there is nothing that can be done. We can only hope that MLG learns from this mistake and improves next time. The least Sundance could've done was to issue a formal apology for the fiasco, which he did. And we all know that if he didn't issue an apology, people would be complaining that there was no apology -.-
On April 23 2013 14:14 Holdenintherye wrote: I don't understand why people are so upset with the apology. They seem to be saying that "it's just a blurb of empty words that doesn't change anything". What else do people expect? The qualifiers are already done, there is nothing that can be done. We can only hope that MLG learns from this mistake and improves next time. The least Sundance could've done was to issue a formal apology for the fiasco, which he did. And we all know that if he didn't issue an apology, people would be complaining that there was no apology -.-
That MLG would show us how they plan to fix the issues (even if not for this than for the next qualifier)?
They even want community to hand them solutions on the silver plater.
On April 23 2013 14:14 Holdenintherye wrote: I don't understand why people are so upset with the apology. They seem to be saying that "it's just a blurb of empty words that doesn't change anything". What else do people expect? The qualifiers are already done, there is nothing that can be done. We can only hope that MLG learns from this mistake and improves next time. The least Sundance could've done was to issue a formal apology for the fiasco, which he did. And we all know that if he didn't issue an apology, people would be complaining that there was no apology -.-
Most people are upset about that he just doesnt said anything about the important failures, only about witholding scores. From every angle u look it just seems MLG wanted to make the most profit they could, so they cut corners with too few admins, no real backround to the WCS Regions, no real effort to put a fair Qualifier in place, letting people participate that should not be allowed (Hyun, Cheater), not respecting any regions WCS 2012 Top Finishers.
They could reastablish Comm and replay the last match against Apocalypse for this Qualifierspot, they "have to" give the screwed over Regions compensation in the Challengerleague (with getting them guaranteed Spots or moving them ahead some rounds in the Qualifier).
Everyone knew NA would be the biggest Scene for WCS, so no excuse for being surprised that so many people wanted to play at all. So MLG has to be held accountable to not be able to put the resources aside that would have been needed. With the Blizz deal behind it seems they felt safe to just maximize their profit and dont care about the actual tournament itself.
There has to be some actions NOW! and not in 3-4 month, when they hope everyone forgot about it and they just proceed as if nothing happened.
Edit: Also MLG is not some new born organisation, they exist for some time and should have the experience to deal with something like that, that is why Blizzard took them as partners. Also they dont seem to communicate between WCS EU - WCS KR at all from the MLG side and just dont care and try to maximize profit in their own bubble of space.
On April 23 2013 14:14 Holdenintherye wrote: I don't understand why people are so upset with the apology.
I'm not upset with the apology, I'm upset with them fucking over players and viewers, and there's no reason to think they'll do better next time. The apology doesn't change that.
On April 23 2013 14:27 Type|NarutO wrote: Its great how I called his statement about the weekend not being perfect an insult towards the community. Not only did he question that but also said they will fix it. If that apology is all to come its not just an insult but a huge fuck you towards us.
Not viewing and supporting MLG as a whole is probably impossible and unfortunately would hurt esport more than watching it (I guess) but I would really wish that we stand up and stand together and show them they are only a business because of us, the community and they seem to not care enough.
This is just the initial apology. I would argue that they should be given at least a week to come back with potential solutions before everyone throws their pitchforks. At least they've come out and said the problems are there and they're not just staying silent and pretending they didn't happen.
Give them the benefit of the doubt at first and then if they don't live up to it feel free to get your torches and pitchforks. As for now, I think the ball is in their court to offer up solutions to issues like the Chinese player's situations.
On April 23 2013 07:17 Fnatic.SaSe wrote: I did read this fast so I might have missed it but not a word about the Chinese? They are probably the hardest working players after Koreans. Let Comm play his match. Blizzard should approve this. At least the whole community probably does. The admin first asked Comm 'Did you play all the games?'. Why ask like that if they gonna DQ him anyway. He made it until 1 game away from qualifying. He obviously deserves the chance. Afaik there is always one rule saying pretty much ADMINS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. Right about time it gets used for a player trying to live his dreams imo. Really sucks hardcore for the other Chinese players who didn't get in aswell. It's totally unacceptable they couldn't compete. They live this game. It's hard for Chinese players to travel to other countries. This was a huge oppertunity for them. And not even a word about them. Disrespectful statement imo. Can't write anymore just discusted. Sorry
Apologizing simply isn't good enough in this case. Saying you'll do better in the future doesn't change the fact that you severely fucked up this qualifier, which has significant repercussions for the rest of the year. Nothing should be forgiven until they start offering actual solutions to the problems from this qualifier. An apology letter that fails to mention the biggest problems from this weekend is just insulting.
On April 23 2013 14:26 Deckkie wrote: I kinda expected to read something about Comm.
I assume you mean the people Comm unfairly cheated out of a spot? Comm cheated and was then disqualified once he was identified. MLG did the absolute correct thing here (although Comm shouldn't have had any problem getting into the qualifiers in the first place as a 512 only player bracket is obviously moronic).
btw, I'm not sure why anybody was surprised that MLG bungled this so badly, they've done a pretty horrible job the first time around in everything they've tried so far. To their credit they do own it and work to improve, but it's obvious there's nobody at MLG that can actually think things through and plan thoroughly.
Hell, at this point MLG should release all their plans at the early planning stage and just post a poll on Team Liquid that says "Are we a pack of fuckwits?". The answer is usually going to be "Yes, this is obviously stupid", but at least they can find out before they actually have the event.
On April 23 2013 15:11 umade wrote: Asia has their own WCS qualifier. I really don't see why they should be playing in the NA one, or the EU one.
'Asia' ? Korea has their own qualifier and you would have to be in Korea to participate in it. That, and the fact that not even Koreans want to take their chance at it.
On April 23 2013 14:26 Deckkie wrote: I kinda expected to read something about Comm.
I assume you mean the people Comm unfairly cheated out of a spot? Comm cheated and was then disqualified once he was identified. MLG did the absolute correct thing here (although Comm shouldn't have had any problem getting into the qualifiers in the first place as a 512 only player bracket is obviously moronic).
btw, I'm not sure why anybody was surprised that MLG bungled this so badly, they've done a pretty horrible job the first time around in everything they've tried so far. To their credit they do own it and work to improve, but it's obvious there's nobody at MLG that can actually think things through and plan thoroughly.
Hell, at this point MLG should release all their plans at the early planning stage and just post a poll on Team Liquid that says "Are we a pack of fuckwits?". The answer is usually going to be "Yes, this is obviously stupid", but at least they can find out before they actually have the event.
Comm didn't cheat. The rule is not saying "BAN IF SMURF!!°!!!!!!!" He was not smurfing to begin with, and without a bad intention. As for my part I do believe that he played under his account and/or told the opponent he is Comm. Even if you want to follow the rules, you either immediately do it OR you fucking make the right decision and say , well fuck it! I fucked up that much, he's one round from qualifying .. it doesn't really change anything. Or for that matter, read SaSe's statement.
For an apology titled "How we will improve," I was expecting to read how they would improve. Instead, it was filled with meaningless apologies and admittance of mistakes without any hint of rectification. It's just another PR crap with no real content.
Pathetic corporate apology by Sundance. I do not understand how anyone take this serious after all what happened. As Naruto already said, this is a fuckin insult to the community as Sundance belittles the demands of the community and treats them as stupid little kids. This apology should contain solution for the apparent problems and not just offer a disgusting "E-Mail" for complaints and improvement suggestions. But i guess this is the american corporate approach of handling business and the community will already forget what had happened by next week.
I'm sure 2GD will have a blast tonight about this topic :D
On April 23 2013 13:09 Ingenero wrote: Jeez, everyone just needs to chill out. Yes MLG messed up, but at least I wasn't put to sleep by how horribly boring the production was, like in the WCS Europe qualifiers. Just because the NASL crew got their panties in a bunch because they weren't invited to the party doesn't mean everyone has to go crying to their mommy. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion, but I guess that's what I should come to expect from the Starcraft community nowadays.
lol, WCS Europe was a million times better than this mess. ESL made some mistakes, but I thought it went okay considering the thousands of signups, it was rather exciting in my opinion, seeing who would run the gauntlet, would europe hold vs the Korean invaders etc. Was a very interesting qualifer. This on the other hand...............
Well I guess there´s always a next, like with all the times MLG fucked something up so far. In the end, the product counts, so when they get it right next season nobody will care for this screw-up, this apology, or anything else related.
Comm cheated and was then disqualified once he was identified.
Comm didnt Cheat at all. I know u didnt mean he Cheat, but dont put it so it could be misunderstood. He played through a friends/students MLG-ID he knew, after trying to contact an admin in time but with not enough staff MLG just didnt respond or couldnt handle anything and just proceeded to put Diamond or lower into the bracket instead of a WCS Region Champion, so he resorted to the last thing he could to not get fucked for the whole Year. Also translation and information that MLG gave out seems to had problems, and cause in the WCS EU similiar case with Shuttle, he maybe thought it would be ok, he didnt tried to hide it.
Just again a problem that accured cause MLG didnt took the scale that WCS should have been into perspective and tried to make the most profit for themselves without getting the necessary manpower behind it.
On April 23 2013 14:45 Abacus1 wrote: This is just the initial apology. I would argue that they should be given at least a week to come back with potential solutions before everyone throws their pitchforks. At least they've come out and said the problems are there and they're not just staying silent and pretending they didn't happen.
Give them the benefit of the doubt at first and then if they don't live up to it feel free to get your torches and pitchforks. As for now, I think the ball is in their court to offer up solutions to issues like the Chinese player's situations.
Agreed. Too bad people on the interwebz will all too freely be way too entitled and expect immediate solutions "ermagerd apologies not good enough". Wait for a bit, if no suitable solutions are in place, then comment.
On April 23 2013 11:45 robopork wrote: So many haters oO
They fucked up and owned it. There's really nothing more you can ask, except maybe a gesture to pro's who got edged out by people who play like me (and logistically, that's just not possible).
But hey, if you've got the time and energy to hold a grudge, good for you. I sure don't.
What?
You mean passing the invalid qualifer along and saying "though luck" to anyone who was harmed is ok procedure in competition, more over its ok for the biggest tournament in sc2?
Until i hear anything about improving the current situation im dissapointed both in MLG and Blizzard.
Maybe Blizzard simply does not care about legitimacy of their own tournament.
On April 23 2013 14:45 Abacus1 wrote: This is just the initial apology. I would argue that they should be given at least a week to come back with potential solutions before everyone throws their pitchforks. At least they've come out and said the problems are there and they're not just staying silent and pretending they didn't happen.
Give them the benefit of the doubt at first and then if they don't live up to it feel free to get your torches and pitchforks. As for now, I think the ball is in their court to offer up solutions to issues like the Chinese player's situations.
Agreed. Too bad people on the interwebz will all too freely be way too entitled and expect immediate solutions "ermagerd apologies not good enough". Wait for a bit, if no suitable solutions are in place, then comment.
Still he could have said something about the real Problems and saying that they are working on a solution. With not saying one word about them, this apoligy is just a shame.
Edit: It just seems that they try to get away with minimum effort as possible, and only take action if they think they will loose too many viewers.
On April 23 2013 15:11 umade wrote: Asia has their own WCS qualifier. I really don't see why they should be playing in the NA one, or the EU one.
There is no asian qualifier, there is a korean one. And players may play in any qualifier they choose, so the players that choose NA probably wants to play in that one. That is why, simple as that.
You could argue that there should be some rules in place to prevent players to play in different regions, but there isn't.
On topic: This apology is just empty words, people want solutions to the problems that they experienced. In fact, the only thing Sundance is saying is that the same mistakes wont happen in the future. So there probably will be no solutions for this qualifier. Sucks for the players involved, I'd say.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
At this point MLG doesn't simply get to say "oops we messed up and will try better next time" because they have been saying this about some event they have been running it seems like at least once or twice a year. Of the 3 organizations running the regional WCS events I believe MLG is the most experienced of them all at running tournaments and yet somehow they are the ones that continually seem to misstep over and over again (this pertains to overall and not just WCS).
I remember in the feedback thread how someone (sorry I don't remember who) said that Sundance would probably soon be issuing an apology and going mistakes were made and we will try and do better next time. The fact that his apology pitch is that well known should probably be a red flag but at this point someone has to tell me what MLG has shown to demonstrate they even deserve to host WCS NA season 2. A lot of these mistakes are understandable but most of them are things that a veteran tournament organization should have seen coming or at least attempted to rectify in less of a slapstick way.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Some people swallow everything they see and read at face value unwilling (or incapable?) of thinking even one step further on their own. Hacking/cheating accussations are more then enough proof of this behavior in people, not suprising that this "apology" is treated any different by these people.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Naruto, I'm one to never arm my pitchfork, even in the threads which clearly call for it, sure it was a complete shitfest but that obviously wasn't their intention, I'd much rather we just move on to the next event and making sure this never happens again.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Some people swallow everything they see and read at face value unwilling (or incapable?) of thinking even one step further on their own. Hacking/cheating accussations are more then enough proof of this behavior in people, not suprising that this "apology" is treated any different by these people.
On April 23 2013 16:38 Adreme wrote: At this point MLG doesn't simply get to say "oops we messed up and will try better next time" because they have been saying this about some event they have been running it seems like at least once or twice a year. Of the 3 organizations running the regional WCS events I believe MLG is the most experienced of them all at running tournaments and yet somehow they are the ones that continually seem to misstep over and over again (this pertains to overall and not just WCS).
I remember in the feedback thread how someone (sorry I don't remember who) said that Sundance would probably soon be issuing an apology and going mistakes were made and we will try and do better next time. The fact that his apology pitch is that well known should probably be a red flag but at this point someone has to tell me what MLG has shown to demonstrate they even deserve to host WCS NA season 2. A lot of these mistakes are understandable but most of them are things that a veteran tournament organization should have seen coming or at least attempted to rectify in less of a slapstick way.
ESL more experienced in hosting tournaments. Also longer around and did a better job, but you are right. MLG doesn't get to say sorry we messed up and we'll do it better next time. I am very well aware of my bashing now, but I feel its deserved. I was supporting MLG even when it wasn't running smooth - why?
I can perfectly relate to technical difficulties, delayed schedule and all of that stuff. It happens and it can happen to anyone. I am IT specialist myself and I do cast and did organize smaller tournaments in the past, so I am well aware that on a bigger scale, bigger hickups and fuckups can and will happen. I am not bashing anyone for those things that happen, but I am and I will continue to be vocal about a major screwup that screwed the players to begin with and a big fuck you towards the community in a meaningless apolozy towards the people that you base your business on.
I am thankful that there are organizations that take the risk and invest into a scene which isn't guaranteed to get you your moneys worth in the start, but MLG did a good job and did raise a good model / company behind it. They can stand their ground and they do good in it, but when you see their posts and tweets from Sundance, I am in utter disbelief anyone would want to support them.
He is not just being sarcastic and harsh, but nothing short of disrespectful towards us. While I can understand all anger that may happen when you get undeserved bashing and people being unthankful of everything you do, you better swallow your goddamn pride when you are the actual reason and its actually no ones but your fault that you messed up.
I think it's interesting that the comments on the apology on the MLG site and the facebook page are mostly positive, with the few negative comments not even related to this incident.
I guess half an appoligy is better then non ? After reading Sundance twitter i highly doubt his senserity on this matter, not to mention it does not even include the major fuck ups.
I just hope lessons were learned during this, and that later this year we will be seeing qualifiers "fair" to all. And hopefully some more streams.
i did not watch mlg yesterday and im not going to for long while. MLG is broken and if i see cast from replay again ill jump out of the freakin window. I do like the format of 3 gsl's.. if 1 region fucks progaming up for alot of people, u can boycot them and i am certainly doing that for a very long period!
On April 23 2013 15:11 umade wrote: Asia has their own WCS qualifier. I really don't see why they should be playing in the NA one, or the EU one.
source?
Asia has WCS Korea. The poster you're quoting, however, does not seem to understand how insanely difficult WCS Korea is, or the fact that it is played out offline which makes it much less practical.
On-topic: I like MLG, and I've always loved their tournaments, but this is a bit too much to swallow right now. I hope a solution is offered for the very good Chinese players who were fucked over by the decisions made by MLG. An apology won't cut it for me - but then again, I'm not the one who was hurt - it's up to Comm and the other Chinese players to either accept MLG's apology or not, because I sure as heck hope they were offered one.
On April 23 2013 16:48 Weirdkid wrote: I think it's interesting that the comments on the apology on the MLG site and the facebook page are mostly positive, with the few negative comments not even related to this incident.
Not really going to draw any conclusions from this because there can be many possible explanations, but just thought it's quite interesting haha.
I can only imagine that the usergroup of their MLG-site is quite different to the one on TL. There is nothing wrong with the apology itself and that's what gets the positive replies on the MLG-site/Facebook. What is criticised on TL is, that there is no information about how he plans to correct the mistakes and that some mistakes are not listed in the apology. How detailed the MLG-users even know about all the problems around the chinese players e.g. I don't know, but I guess not much.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Well I think you've got that wrong, since there will be 3 seasons for this year and 4 in the following years, so they will have as many qualifiers as there are seasons + they are allowed one region change per year (or just 2013, correct me if I'm wrong on this one). While I can understand your anger and agree that the community infact is the foundation of this industry, polarizing and painting things black and white doesn't really help the cause in the long run, but is rather detrimental since if companies find it to hard to please the majority of their customers they might think of re-orientating, which might hurt us and eSports in a whole more. All I just trying to say is that people should calm down and have a more rational argument on how to solve issues on a thorough basis.
On April 23 2013 15:11 umade wrote: Asia has their own WCS qualifier. I really don't see why they should be playing in the NA one, or the EU one.
source?
Asia has WCS Korea. The poster you're quoting, however, does not seem to understand how insanely difficult WCS Korea is, or the fact that it is played out offline which makes it much less practical.
On-topic: I like MLG, and I've always loved their tournaments, but this is a bit too much to swallow right now. I hope a solution is offered for the very good Chinese players who were fucked over by the decisions made by MLG. An apology won't cut it for me - but then again, I'm not the one who was hurt - it's up to Comm and the other Chinese players to either accept MLG's apology or not, because I sure as heck hope they were offered one.
well WCS Korea Qualifiers are the GSL Code A qualifiers. you have to go to korea to play them.
more interesting then the apology itself are the topics sundance doesn't even mention:
1) no word on letting hyun play thus corrupting the brackets. why? well, it would make them look really bad if they can't even check if the registered players are already in Code S or not. says a lot about their own planning and explains why they let hackers play. they didn't check players AT ALL. plain and simple.
2) no apology to the chinese players where his admins fucked up BIG time. as proven by the screenshots.
3) no reasoning to disqualify Comm just before his FINAL MATCH. resulting in even further corrupted brackets and invalidating the whole qualifier. not even an apology here.
4) no word on why an OPEN qualifier is limited to 512 players. and how they even came to the totally stupid conclussion that 512 players would be enough. some basic research shows that the 4th (!!!) qualifier for EU had a 2048 bracket. maybe there was no research?
apologizing is great if you don't even talk about your major fuck ups.
On April 23 2013 16:48 Weirdkid wrote: I think it's interesting that the comments on the apology on the MLG site and the facebook page are mostly positive, with the few negative comments not even related to this incident.
Not really going to draw any conclusions from this because there can be many possible explanations, but just thought it's quite interesting haha.
I can only imagine that the usergroup of their MLG-site is quite different to the one on TL. There is nothing wrong with the apology itself and that's what gets the positive replies on the MLG-site/Facebook. What is criticised on TL is, that there is no information about how he plans to correct the mistakes and that some mistakes are not listed in the apology. How detailed the MLG-users even know about all the problems around the chinese players e.g. I don't know, but I guess not much.
Yes I too believe most of the people commenting there are not the same ones here posting on TL. They may not even know a shit about SC2 and just follow other games MLG hosts tournaments. Majority are probably unaware of the other important fuck ups not mentioned in the statement nor how much the player limit really screwed people over.
Talking about Comm being screwed up by MLG, is he even banned for the whole WCS, or was that just the Code S qualifier? I mean, if not, he can always participate in the Code A qualifiers and try to enter that way.
edit: Also, am I the only one who things that this announcement is incredibly incoherent with all of his recent tweets?
On April 23 2013 17:59 JustPassingBy wrote: Talking about Comm being screwed up by MLG, is he even banned for the whole WCS, or was that just the Code S qualifier? I mean, if not, he can always participate in the Code A qualifiers and try to enter that way.
edit: Also, am I the only one who things that this announcement is incredibly incoherent with all of his recent tweets?
If he is disqualified from the qualifier, is he placed somewhere between 9 and 40? Otherwise he cannot participate in the challenger qualifier(?)
I feel like this is just a pre-witten appology. "Hey we fucked up - where is our standard formula for appologies?" There ar some things you are not allowed to fuck up if you run a single qualifier event. They say they underestimatet how many people wanted to play in the qualifiers. Seriously? i am in no way an expert in running such events, but 512 people qualifier for entire Na region AFTER esl already had 4 qualifiers with more people in it? Yes mostly were the same people playing but seriously.. i have absolutly no problem with the fact that it wasnt 100% smooth. I dont care if they show outdated brackets to me, or show some low lvl games, this games can be fun too and its nice to give unknown players some spotlight. But allowing known hackers ( sombody mentioned this, is it actually true?) or allow players who werent allowed to play at all eliminate others from the qualifiers - thats just a big fuck up. Im happy i only watched a single series of the entire qualifiers - ironcally it was mario vs nony. The way how that was handeled was just bad aswell. Turned the stream off afterwards because i couldnt stand the stupidness they were producing. I also felt that the breaks were often longer than the games...
Well, I'm very sorry too. Some of the mistakes that were made are understandable considering time/ staff shortages. But the decision to just have 1 512 man bracket after the 4(!) EU qualifiers just blowes my mind. It pretty much caused all of the other problems that happened during the tournament and could have easily been avoided by looking just a little bit further than the pretty NY scyline. Having just one stream is also a huge mistake that is not covered by this apology.
So, I get it; You'll do better next time (not doubting that) but can do nothing for the players affected by the mistakes that occured. Well, this is not true and consider this a PR tip: Have Comm play his match against Apocalypse. Live. On a "apology stream" broadcast.
On April 23 2013 17:59 JustPassingBy wrote: Talking about Comm being screwed up by MLG, is he even banned for the whole WCS, or was that just the Code S qualifier? I mean, if not, he can always participate in the Code A qualifiers and try to enter that way.
edit: Also, am I the only one who things that this announcement is incredibly incoherent with all of his recent tweets?
If he is disqualified from the qualifier, is he placed somewhere between 9 and 40? Otherwise he cannot participate in the challenger qualifier(?)
While it has been mentioned that the 9th to 40th will be invited into the challenger qualifier, it has never been said that they will be the only ones who will be invited. In fact, I have seen images of some MLG official promising all the screwed over chinese player an invite to the NA Code A qualifiers. Let's just hope it's not the same guy who also said they were "ready to go" for the Code S qualis...
On April 23 2013 16:38 Adreme wrote: At this point MLG doesn't simply get to say "oops we messed up and will try better next time" because they have been saying this about some event they have been running it seems like at least once or twice a year. Of the 3 organizations running the regional WCS events I believe MLG is the most experienced of them all at running tournaments and yet somehow they are the ones that continually seem to misstep over and over again (this pertains to overall and not just WCS).
I remember in the feedback thread how someone (sorry I don't remember who) said that Sundance would probably soon be issuing an apology and going mistakes were made and we will try and do better next time. The fact that his apology pitch is that well known should probably be a red flag but at this point someone has to tell me what MLG has shown to demonstrate they even deserve to host WCS NA season 2. A lot of these mistakes are understandable but most of them are things that a veteran tournament organization should have seen coming or at least attempted to rectify in less of a slapstick way.
ESL more experienced in hosting tournaments. Also longer around and did a better job, but you are right. MLG doesn't get to say sorry we messed up and we'll do it better next time. I am very well aware of my bashing now, but I feel its deserved. I was supporting MLG even when it wasn't running smooth - why?
I can perfectly relate to technical difficulties, delayed schedule and all of that stuff. It happens and it can happen to anyone. I am IT specialist myself and I do cast and did organize smaller tournaments in the past, so I am well aware that on a bigger scale, bigger hickups and fuckups can and will happen. I am not bashing anyone for those things that happen, but I am and I will continue to be vocal about a major screwup that screwed the players to begin with and a big fuck you towards the community in a meaningless apolozy towards the people that you base your business on.
I am thankful that there are organizations that take the risk and invest into a scene which isn't guaranteed to get you your moneys worth in the start, but MLG did a good job and did raise a good model / company behind it. They can stand their ground and they do good in it, but when you see their posts and tweets from Sundance, I am in utter disbelief anyone would want to support them.
He is not just being sarcastic and harsh, but nothing short of disrespectful towards us. While I can understand all anger that may happen when you get undeserved bashing and people being unthankful of everything you do, you better swallow your goddamn pride when you are the actual reason and its actually no ones but your fault that you messed up.
I very much agree with this post. If MLG or Sundance in particular at least would be humble when they make ( huge ) mistakes, it would not even be half as bad. And by the way, to pretend they actually did not expect that many players to register is just a LIE and nothing else. Another example, where humbleness would be important but Sundance chooses to pretend ignorance.
The usual PR empty words, after everything has been done. Not the first time that they come from Sundance, most likely not the last. I wonder if someone is seriously believing in those empty sentences... if you really want him to listen (and most importantly act, instead of writing something he doesn't even believe in) you should watch something else when MLG is airing, like a player's stream. Especially someone who didn't qualify since some "important" player had to step in regardless of all the seats being already taken.
I'm sceptic about MLG, people are complaining about various things since a lot, but I don't see them actually do something that doesn't involve just words. Unless it touches their wallet, things are going to stay exactly how they like and that's what happen when you get a collossus (no pun intended) in a market like NA, which is prone to die if people let them do what they want. I've seen many apology thread on this site, and the only one who I ever believed was Seeker's one (lololol). Poeple don't change their decisions because some no one posted his opinion on the internet, nor do they consider them unless they are a million and more importantly they involve viewership. Don't be fooled.
lot of negativity here, of course it shouldnt happen but this is a new venture and format for everyone. Even if it was smoothly done there are always calls for improvement and somebody somewhere doesnt like it. I personally feel the wcs has been rushed forward on everyones part creating the messier parts. esport gaming and sc2 this is a massive scene, we all know it and always i feel its underestimated how passionate we get over a game tournament and the game itslelf, this is the definition of hardcore gamers. We as the community though need to uphold our end of the bargain. Support. Lets just say a lot of the organisation for the most part went bad, (personally ive really enjoyed the coverage so far, its not affected me like its effective other people) so we need to just be a little more understanding. mlg is the forefornt of this business and they will get it right, just like blizzard are getting it right in the continuing support for their game and their fans and TRYING to create a little more for us all.
what if everyone just stopped trying? What would we say then. It would be up to independants to run if something like this could be run from scratch. Please people, lets just be a bit more supportive.
On April 23 2013 18:57 digmouse wrote: Collecting Chinese netizen and Starcraft community reactions about the whole WCS NA qualifier and "apology", prepare for some serious shitstorm dudes.
Always interesting to see what other communities are saying, thanks for collecting/translating!
On April 23 2013 18:48 StatixEx wrote: lot of negativity here, of course it shouldnt happen but this is a new venture and format for everyone. Even if it was smoothly done there are always calls for improvement and somebody somewhere doesnt like it. I personally feel the wcs has been rushed forward on everyones part creating the messier parts. esport gaming and sc2 this is a massive scene, we all know it and always i feel its underestimated how passionate we get over a game tournament and the game itslelf, this is the definition of hardcore gamers. We as the community though need to uphold our end of the bargain. Support. Lets just say a lot of the organisation for the most part went bad, (personally ive really enjoyed the coverage so far, its not affected me like its effective other people) so we need to just be a little more understanding. mlg is the forefornt of this business and they will get it right, just like blizzard are getting it right in the continuing support for their game and their fans and TRYING to create a little more for us all.
what if everyone just stopped trying? What would we say then. It would be up to independants to run if something like this could be run from scratch. Please people, lets just be a bit more supportive.
Do you simply ignore how terrible it went or do you really don't realize? As pointed out multiple times. Technical difficulties, stream delay, bad casting, communication problems, bad calls on rematch situations... etc pp is all very understandable even if it sucks and an apology really solves most those things if you correct it the next time.
Screwing a players career and simply put lie in your apology, really? Allowing hackers in your tournament, limit your tournament and disqualify players being in the (very last round) of the tournament. They completely made their qualifier void. The only reason it cannot be re-run is, because it would be unfair towards the people that qualified fair and square in that mess and I even dare to say, with the chinese players participating we could have potentially seen upsets and different qualificants.
Keep defending MLG and say we should stick together, but those two things do stand in contrary to each other. We as a community should not and cannot accept that qualifier/the quality and especially the aftermath/apology. MLG deserves the shitstorm it gets and to be fair, they are getting away easy right now. Blizzard should step in.
I think this generic "I'm sorry" is far from adequate here. Many players got massively screwed over by MLGs incompetence and they don't give a shit or try to fix it. And the fact that they don't even mention the actual problems everyone is pissed about is borderline insulting.
WCS NA was a massive failure from the beginning and is probably the tournament that will be the least enjoyable one to watch. Noone needs WCS "little korea" along with this bad organisation.
On April 23 2013 18:57 digmouse wrote: Collecting Chinese netizen and Starcraft community reactions about the whole WCS NA qualifier and "apology", prepare for some serious shitstorm dudes.
Lol isn't it basically the same stuff as what we have here?
In my opinion, this "apology" is more tailored towards damage containment than anything else. Be vague enough about the mistakes so as to not inform those who are clueless about it until now. Provide an e-mail address to keep complaints private, rather than encouraging public debate.
What's worst, after the dissapointments of this weekend's tournament, when Sundance writes "I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.", I take it as a threat rather than a promise.,, Even though I can see the potential benefits of attempts to unify the tournament scene, it cannot be intended that the rules of fairplay and chances for participation are put at the mercy of a single - demonstrably incompetent! - organizer. Why is it already a given that "all future WCS America operations" are run by MLG, no matter how much they screw up?
To use an overly dramatic analogy, right now the whole situation feels as if MLG is holding WCS hostage.
Didn't he tweet that he was going to "fix" this. In my opinion this is not a situation in which you just apologize.
What I would like to know is how do they come to certain decisions. For example how did they end up with the 'first come, first in, even if you're a bronze leaguer' format. What made them think that was the best way? And from the apology I get they expected 512 to be sufficient number, what kind of research resulted in that? I just don't believe someone would honestly, genuinely believe 512 is enough, I don't buy that.
On April 23 2013 07:10 Kazuki wrote: They could've known how many sign-ups there would be just by looking at how it went for WCS EU.
I am not eevn sure if they actually KNOW WHERE Europe is...Maybe they think is not far from Mexico...There were 4 rounds in the EU Q with almost 1k players each of them.The mlg production jut hasnt seen anything of this.I thought AM will stream much better and with more players than EU,because AM is the country of SC and is much bigger than EU,but...so sad.Only 512 players and they DID NOT EXPECT SOO MANY?? Its just crazy.They have no idea whats going on in the SC scene and DO NOT DESERVE to organize any SC2 event for the rest of their lifes.Blizzard made big mistake choosing them.NASL would be much better.I dont want to remember those caster calling Drunkeboi "Junleboy"...Really sad and a shame for AM.
On April 23 2013 18:57 digmouse wrote: Collecting Chinese netizen and Starcraft community reactions about the whole WCS NA qualifier and "apology", prepare for some serious shitstorm dudes.
Lol isn't it basically the same stuff as what we have here?
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay. He is in no position to demand amends after his blatant disregard for the rules of the tournament.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it. The community does not reward good decisions and punishes bad ones
Why should Blizzard invest/throw money at the game at all when all it results in is people flooding the community sites with complaints? Without blizzard's investment there would be no GSL, but no one cares.
I get that the format is built around everyone having a chance, but if you're only going to have 512 slots, at least give them to master players or above, that actually has a chance later on.
I feel the qualified players and teams should make a united stand here, go on strike until they replay the whole qualifier. What if this happened to EG or Axiom players...
Where are the pro's and teams... why arent they making a public stand against this shit, greedy Mofo's. The champion of WCS-NA will be fake champion if qualifiers dont get replayed. WCS-NA is a hoax and the title says nothing else then embarasment.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every complaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
On April 23 2013 18:48 StatixEx wrote: lot of negativity here, of course it shouldnt happen but this is a new venture and format for everyone. Even if it was smoothly done there are always calls for improvement and somebody somewhere doesnt like it. I personally feel the wcs has been rushed forward on everyones part creating the messier parts. esport gaming and sc2 this is a massive scene, we all know it and always i feel its underestimated how passionate we get over a game tournament and the game itslelf, this is the definition of hardcore gamers. We as the community though need to uphold our end of the bargain. Support. Lets just say a lot of the organisation for the most part went bad, (personally ive really enjoyed the coverage so far, its not affected me like its effective other people) so we need to just be a little more understanding. mlg is the forefornt of this business and they will get it right, just like blizzard are getting it right in the continuing support for their game and their fans and TRYING to create a little more for us all.
what if everyone just stopped trying? What would we say then. It would be up to independants to run if something like this could be run from scratch. Please people, lets just be a bit more supportive.
Do you simply ignore how terrible it went or do you really don't realize? As pointed out multiple times. Technical difficulties, stream delay, bad casting, communication problems, bad calls on rematch situations... etc pp is all very understandable even if it sucks and an apology really solves most those things if you correct it the next time.
Screwing a players career and simply put lie in your apology, really? Allowing hackers in your tournament, limit your tournament and disqualify players being in the (very last round) of the tournament. They completely made their qualifier void. The only reason it cannot be re-run is, because it would be unfair towards the people that qualified fair and square in that mess and I even dare to say, with the chinese players participating we could have potentially seen upsets and different qualificants.
Keep defending MLG and say we should stick together, but those two things do stand in contrary to each other. We as a community should not and cannot accept that qualifier/the quality and especially the aftermath/apology. MLG deserves the shitstorm it gets and to be fair, they are getting away easy right now. Blizzard should step in.
I support you on this whole heartly. And unlike what syllogism says, I paid hundreds on dollars on the scene, in the form on subscription. I pulled mine off MLG twitch yesterday.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every comlaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
This is a typical post by a member of these communities. You are saying things that have no meaning at all (most disrespectful manner possible?) and lead to nothing useful. What do you mean when you say that "the mess" invalidates the qualifier itself? Please do elaborate and explain why that is relevant now?
I don't care about Sundance, the qualifiers, MLG and I'm not particularly invested in whether the game survives in long term.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every comlaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
This is a typical post by a member of these communities. You are saying things that have no meaning at all and lead to nothing useful. What do you mean when you say that "the mess" invalidates the qualifier itself? Please do elaborate and explain why that is relevant now?
I don't care about Sundance, the qualifiers, MLG and I'm not particularly invested in whether the game survives in long term.
i'd say the same thing about you. the points i made are all out there: hyun playing and eliminating players, hackers playing and eliminating players, a DQ Comm eliminating players. pro gamers not even able to participate due to 512 player cap. this is a fucking mess of a qualifier and it's results are totally VOID. naruto explained this way better then me. you could have read it yourself.
Sometime it looks like people and organizations just don't think or plan ahead, they will go with the flow and see the result, if they screw it up, they will just "apologize" and move on. Meanwhile progamers miss a chance to make a name for themselves. I don't understand why make a single 512 player bracket when EU had 4x1024 brackets just a few days before them. Why not let other streamers in the games? EU had like 10-15+ streams daily.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay. He is in no position to demand amends after his blatant disregard for the rules of the tournament.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it. The community does not reward good decisions and punishes bad ones
Why should Blizzard invest/throw money at the game at all when all it results in is people flooding the community sites with complaints? Without blizzard's investment there would be no GSL, but no one cares.
Do you feel my posts are nothing but rants and blind rage? Do you think I didn't put time or thought into them? Do you feel I blindly insult MLG?
If we disagree there, I don't see a point in going into a discussion with you.
more interesting then the apology itself are the topics sundance doesn't even mention:
1) no word on letting hyun play thus corrupting the brackets. why? well, it would make them look really bad if they can't even check if the registered players are already in Code S or not. says a lot about their own planning and explains why they let hackers play. they didn't check players AT ALL. plain and simple.
2) no apology to the chinese players where his admins fucked up BIG time. as proven by the screenshots.
3) no reasoning to disqualify Comm just before his FINAL MATCH. resulting in even further corrupted brackets and invalidating the whole qualifier. not even an apology here.
4) no word on why an OPEN qualifier is limited to 512 players. and how they even came to the totally stupid conclussion that 512 players would be enough. some basic research shows that the 4th (!!!) qualifier for EU had a 2048 bracket. maybe there was no research?
apologizing is great if you don't even talk about your major fuck ups.
I think this pretty much nails it.
The only way sundance will ever even TRY to understand all the concerns is if there is a HUGE wave of cancellations of gold member subscriptions after whis weekend.
On April 23 2013 18:48 StatixEx wrote: lot of negativity here, of course it shouldnt happen but this is a new venture and format for everyone. Even if it was smoothly done there are always calls for improvement and somebody somewhere doesnt like it. I personally feel the wcs has been rushed forward on everyones part creating the messier parts. esport gaming and sc2 this is a massive scene, we all know it and always i feel its underestimated how passionate we get over a game tournament and the game itslelf, this is the definition of hardcore gamers. We as the community though need to uphold our end of the bargain. Support. Lets just say a lot of the organisation for the most part went bad, (personally ive really enjoyed the coverage so far, its not affected me like its effective other people) so we need to just be a little more understanding. mlg is the forefornt of this business and they will get it right, just like blizzard are getting it right in the continuing support for their game and their fans and TRYING to create a little more for us all.
what if everyone just stopped trying? What would we say then. It would be up to independants to run if something like this could be run from scratch. Please people, lets just be a bit more supportive.
Do you simply ignore how terrible it went or do you really don't realize? As pointed out multiple times. Technical difficulties, stream delay, bad casting, communication problems, bad calls on rematch situations... etc pp is all very understandable even if it sucks and an apology really solves most those things if you correct it the next time.
Screwing a players career and simply put lie in your apology, really? Allowing hackers in your tournament, limit your tournament and disqualify players being in the (very last round) of the tournament. They completely made their qualifier void. The only reason it cannot be re-run is, because it would be unfair towards the people that qualified fair and square in that mess and I even dare to say, with the chinese players participating we could have potentially seen upsets and different qualificants.
Keep defending MLG and say we should stick together, but those two things do stand in contrary to each other. We as a community should not and cannot accept that qualifier/the quality and especially the aftermath/apology. MLG deserves the shitstorm it gets and to be fair, they are getting away easy right now. Blizzard should step in.
I support you on this whole heartly. And unlike what syllogism says, I paid hundreds on dollars on the scene, in the form on subscription. I pulled mine off MLG twitch yesterday.
Totally support to everything Naruto wrote.The AM Q are the worst semi-tournament I have ever seen in my life since I know SC2.Being held in NY I thought it would be much better than EU Q.We all were upset with the EU quality,but I never ever expect to something worse...till this weekend and the mlg "performance".
There are TOO Many OBVIOUS things to be forget in the apologize.
1.Only 512 players.Silly 2.No League restriction.Crazy 3.Signed people(chinese players) not allowed to play after confirmation via email 4.Hackers disq too late 5.Allow wrong players to play(Hyun) 6.The Comm-gate.Once again is mlgs fault,because he was forced to play given the spotless situation. 7.REALY BAD Brackets format in the mlg site. 8.Bad coverage in the Liquipedio,due to the mlg not allowing people to see results 9.Hiding final brackets and quilified players for two days... 10.The WORST casters I have ever seen. 11.ONLY ONE SIGLE STREAM. 12.Banning people in the mlg twitch chat because complaining and providing constructive feedback 13.Really BAD apologize.Just quit mlg,you do not deserve to organize any SC2 event anymore
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every comlaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
This is a typical post by a member of these communities. You are saying things that have no meaning at all (most disrespectful manner possible?) and lead to nothing useful. What do you mean when you say that "the mess" invalidates the qualifier itself? Please do elaborate and explain why that is relevant now?
I don't care about Sundance, the qualifiers, MLG and I'm not particularly invested in whether the game survives in long term.
Quite simple, no? This is blizzards "Starcraft World Championship", and they are excluding a portion of the population (A really strong and hardworking part - The Chinese).
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every comlaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
This is a typical post by a member of these communities. You are saying things that have no meaning at all (most disrespectful manner possible?) and lead to nothing useful. What do you mean when you say that "the mess" invalidates the qualifier itself? Please do elaborate and explain why that is relevant now?
I don't care about Sundance, the qualifiers, MLG and I'm not particularly invested in whether the game survives in long term.
Quite simple, no? This is blizzards "Starcraft World Championship", and they are excluding a portion of the population (A really strong and hardworking part - The Chinese).
The registration process/selection method was a disaster and should be improved in the future. This does not invalidate anything. The players who qualified deserved to qualify.
Hopefully they do fix the soon to be code a qualifier (for season 2). And the challenger league for this season if it would need reworking who knows. I watch the WCS for free so I have no reason to complain and don't need an apology. I could care less about being spoiled. THey should probably apologize to the really good players who were not able to participate.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every complaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
Sundance I could throw 5 dollar bills into a crowd of eSports fans and some of you would call me an asshole and ask for 10s
That is what Sundance on twitter had to say about this all. And that is from a CEO ...
- Listen to the community. - don't put the blame on others. - Don't say sorry, do things better. - Don't be an ass on Twitter, you are the face and voice of MLG you should know better.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every comlaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
This is a typical post by a member of these communities. You are saying things that have no meaning at all (most disrespectful manner possible?) and lead to nothing useful. What do you mean when you say that "the mess" invalidates the qualifier itself? Please do elaborate and explain why that is relevant now?
I don't care about Sundance, the qualifiers, MLG and I'm not particularly invested in whether the game survives in long term.
Quite simple, no? This is blizzards "Starcraft World Championship", and they are excluding a portion of the population (A really strong and hardworking part - The Chinese).
The registration process/selection method was a disaster and should be improved in the future. This does not invalidate anything. The players who qualified deserved to qualify.
It does invalidate the tournament/qualifier. First of all, besides not being able to participate in a tournament that should be open to everyone and not have a playerlimit to begin with, they excluded chinese players (pros) that were confirmed 'ready to go'. Wether that admin was not aware of the system or not does not matter.
Secondly they did allow HyuN to participate in this tournament and allow him to beat down players, that theoretically and potentially could have made a run and qualified. If you like to call the chances to be 0,0001% , that is still a chance for you. Furthermore they decided to disqualify a known hacker in the ongoing tournament and making the games he played void. The result of this action wasn't , that the games had to be replayed, but simply the next opponent got a w/o (right?).
Other than that, the chinese player Comm who should have been in the tournament to begin with, used the account of FruitBasket, wether or not the admin knew or the opponents, I actually give Comm the benefit of the doubt when he states, that he tried to contact an admin and told his opponent that he is - in fact not Fruitbasket but Comm.
Disqualifying him one round before potentially qualifying and giving the win to his opponent not only is unfair to everyone Comm beat, but also gives Apocalypse an advantage over anyone who played a 'full' tournament to qualify. DemusliM for example would have been qualified if not for his last bo3.
This action alone invalidates the tournament/qualifer. Do add all the other mistakes that were made, and its void. I can understand, that its impossible to re-run the qualifier, as the people who qualified, did work for it. That in itself doesn't make it less invalid, though.
On April 23 2013 20:44 Khai wrote: Apologizing makes up for nothing, do something about it to correct the mistakes made.
What exactly do you expect them to do?
AT LEAST make a statement on the Comm case and perhaps even let him play his final match against Apocalypse. i think he has a very good chance to qualify that is taken off him for no reason. edit: good explantion by naruto.
On April 23 2013 20:44 Khai wrote: Apologizing makes up for nothing, do something about it to correct the mistakes made.
What exactly do you expect them to do?
AT LEAST make a statement on the Comm case and perhaps even let him play his final match against Apocalypse. i think he has a very good chance to qualify that is taken off him for no reason. edit: good explantion by naruto.
Or even invite him to the 'invite only Code A'.. (+statement ofc)
I'm not sure if you understand the meaning of the words you use, in particular "invalid" and "void". If you believe that the people who qualified deserved to qualify, neither of the words apply. The mistakes make the qualifier a poorly ran one, disaster, whatever, but not invalid or void. It's not necessary at all for the qualifier to have the best possible players for it to be valid.
I'm glad they addressed this. On the internet, hate is fairly ubiquitous. It's hard to know when there is a legitimate problem and when people are just bashing to bash. Clearly, the WCS had severe issues with getting the right people to the table, issues with the stream (showing replays, skipping DeMuslims single vicotry over Revival, which would have made the match pretty cool). On and on. Hopefully, solid lessons are learned here.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every complaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
Sundance I could throw 5 dollar bills into a crowd of eSports fans and some of you would call me an asshole and ask for 10s
That is what Sundance on twitter had to say about this all. And that is from a CEO ...
- Listen to the community. - don't put the blame on others. - Don't say sorry, do things better. - Don't be an ass on Twitter, you are the face and voice of MLG you should know better.
- They do listen to the community. Saying otherwise is just ignoring everything MLG has done in the last years. - Others are also to blame and he didn't say they were blameless themselves. Weird point. - Why not both? They said they are sorry and vow to do better. Maybe allow them a chance to do so? - Given what people say about MLG and Sundance on twitter and in this thread I don't blame him. So many strawmans and fallacies it isn't even funny. Not ideal from a pr perspective sure but he's human after all. Don't get me wrong, they do deserve criticism for this but people have to be reasonable as well. It seems a lot of people would rather see MLG fail than to pick themselves up and do better.
On April 23 2013 20:44 Khai wrote: Apologizing makes up for nothing, do something about it to correct the mistakes made.
What exactly do you expect them to do?
AT LEAST make a statement on the Comm case and perhaps even let him play his final match against Apocalypse. i think he has a very good chance to qualify that is taken off him for no reason. edit: good explantion by naruto.
Or even invite him to the 'invite only Code A'.. (+statement ofc)
NO. he had a good chance for Code S, he should be in the invite only Code A anyway because he qualified already, proven by his results in the qualifier. he has to get his chance to get to Code S and this is a simple "regame" of the DQ against Apocalypse.
On April 23 2013 20:56 syllogism wrote: I'm not sure if you understand the meaning of the words you use, in particular "invalid" and "void". If you believe that the people who qualified deserved to qualify, neither of the words apply. The mistakes make the qualifier a poorly ran one, disaster, whatever, but not invalid or void. It's not necessary at all for the qualifier to have the best possible players for it to be valid.
you don't understand what a fair competition is at all. corrupted brackets are the worst thing that can happen to any tourney and this is the first premier tournament where this happens. shame on MLG.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every comlaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
This is a typical post by a member of these communities. You are saying things that have no meaning at all (most disrespectful manner possible?) and lead to nothing useful. What do you mean when you say that "the mess" invalidates the qualifier itself? Please do elaborate and explain why that is relevant now?
I don't care about Sundance, the qualifiers, MLG and I'm not particularly invested in whether the game survives in long term.
Quite simple, no? This is blizzards "Starcraft World Championship", and they are excluding a portion of the population (A really strong and hardworking part - The Chinese).
The registration process/selection method was a disaster and should be improved in the future. This does not invalidate anything. The players who qualified deserved to qualify.
how can you say that when comm was one series from qualifying? Who are you to say that comm would have lost that match. He should have been a valid competitor, he proved himself one, and he was robbed of the shot at a spot.
On April 23 2013 20:56 syllogism wrote: I'm not sure if you understand the meaning of the words you use, in particular "invalid" and "void". If you believe that the people who qualified deserved to qualify, neither of the words apply. The mistakes make the qualifier a poorly ran one, disaster, whatever, but not invalid or void. It's not necessary at all for the qualifier to have the best possible players for it to be valid.
Okay, lets be totally honest here right? I personally dislike the tournament not being open and allowing everyone to participate, but this point alone doesn't make the qualifier void when you started the tournament. It makes it a mess, but its still a legitimate qualification process. Now lets go through it
Alicia qualified, didn't play HyuN, nor Comm nor the disqualified hacker. Neither did any of his opponents. His qualification run is valid and not void.
Comm beat Tbizzo and hendralisk before losing to TheStC and thus granting him a qualification spot. Comm was disqualified for behaving against the rules. Every player he knocked down, wouldn't be knocked down if this would have been fixed from the start. Tbizzo, hendralisk both had a chance to advance and potentially beat StC. Likely? I don't know, but can you say 0% chance? No you cannot.
TheStCs spot as qualificant is void.
I only looked it up from Round5+ , but thats just an example, I guess you can relate to what I am referring to. Due to the disqualification of people , matches usually would have had to replayed or we would need immediate action. If players get knocked out from people that are not allowed to participate , it takes their chances to qualify. Knocking out those players means it does make every match played in that particular tree void.
If every player that qualified did neither play one of the disqualified/not allowed people NOR one of their opponents OR their opponents opponent before that , then qualification is valid, otherwise void.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay. He is in no position to demand amends after his blatant disregard for the rules of the tournament.
Bullshit, if they apply their rules like they did, every chinese pro won't be able to play a single game of WCS exept for Comm who played the qualifiers. They have no tournaments with good prize-money, no shit, nothing. Last year WCS was a saving grace in China just like in Australia for their scene. It's their only big tournament, it's not ONE tournament, it's a fucking league that can really sustain them. How much do you think they win per month? Especially in China, just think before saying stupid shit.
They have every rights to participate over the platinium players who did. It's their fucking job and a platinium leaguer can't win in this kind of qualifier, it is just impossible. We are supposed to have a global champion at the end of the year : a non-pro who has no chance to win participating means a pro who has chances to win can't; it is just stupid, do you see noobs in the first round of a tennis global championship? Hell no, a requirement is needed it's just simple.
Your attitude is awful, you are defending people who screwed up big and then make a stupid reasoning with all those "respect the rules uh, uh, disregard for the rules". Comm got fucked by an admin who tells him he's ready to go and then tries to qualify with another account. If he didn't tell others he was Comm everything would have been okay, hell the reason he was banned is not even clear. Everybody was using barcodes shit, other user-names/accounts, revealed the results and only a few like Demu or Comm were banned. They didn't respect their own retarded rules else they would have banned 90% of the players.
The rules were bad then they made fast and bad decisions then start denying it then we have nice excuses but still no response to the problems created.
On April 23 2013 20:18 syllogism wrote: The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
You are not considering the issue from the point of the chinese at all so come down from your piedestal dude. This qualifier was awful so let the organisers know it, it's just normal. After a major fuck-up like this you can't expect people to have constructive criticism. There are limits to things, you can't have constructive criticism all the time, MLG needs to be shaken.
E-sports is expanding, the scene won't die and if MLG falls another organisation will come. An organisation who fucks up players isn't needed. I hope they remember this qualifier well, they are disposable (and NASL is just behind them). While it's true that there are a lot of complains all the time, I think it's normal in this case.
Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
What do you mean they "get away" with an apology? What exactly do you think the "community" should be doing? Post more unconstructive criticism about issues they are acutely aware of? Or do you want the free loaders who just tune in to the free streams and never put a single dollar into the scene, to demand that the ones who do should cease? I'm sure there are also a lot of disappointed people who have previously had mlg tickets, but they are by far the minority and it's pretty easy to tell based on the tone and content of posts who has not and is unlikely to ever spend money in the scene.
"Fucked over Comm and other people's career"? First of all, his career is not over by being unable to participate in a single tournament. Secondly, he has no right inherent right to participate in the tournament over the people who did. Comm "fucked over" his career on his own just fine by not realizing that not informing the admins that you are smurfing is not okay.
The reason the community isn't worth listening to is because the vast majority of people are incapable of expressing their views in a rational, well-thought out manner, considering the issue from every perspective and taking into account that they are largely consumers of content that is free to them. You aren't entitled to anything for free and you should keep that in mind when posting criticism. Yes, you have every right to worry about your favorite hobby, but that doesn't mean the reaction is reasonable and not childish. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a significant, if not the majority of, portition of the community runs ad blockers and is basically hurting the scene if anything. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of these organizations involved are still losing money investing in the hobby you enjoy and all the community can do is complain. Not only do they just complain, but they are incredibly smug about it.
there was a list with every comlaint. sundance ignored it and apologized in the most disrespectful manner possible. ignoring nearly every point that would make his organisation look like the amateurs they actually are. MLG just didn't care.
so maybe a childish "apology" requires a community uproar to get the focus on the relevant topics and get some FIXES instead of EXCUSES.
childish are also the people that can't see how this whole mess invalidates the qualifier itself and just embrace sundance even thanking him for his "apology". they are truely "believers" not bound to reality.
This is a typical post by a member of these communities. You are saying things that have no meaning at all (most disrespectful manner possible?) and lead to nothing useful. What do you mean when you say that "the mess" invalidates the qualifier itself? Please do elaborate and explain why that is relevant now?
I don't care about Sundance, the qualifiers, MLG and I'm not particularly invested in whether the game survives in long term.
If you don't care, why are you here? Why are you criticizing people when you don't know what problems came up to begin with?
Comm has no inherent right to participate over other people? He's the WCS China champion. WCS Mexico's runner-up got directly seeded into the premier league, but WCS China's champion doesn't even get a seed into the qualifiers? His career isn't over, but it does put him at a significant disadvantage going into further WCS tournaments as points accumulate. It's not just Comm either, XY and Jim both have the potential to upset Koreans and qualify, but they weren't allowed to compete at all due to the 512 player cap. I've also heard that some Australian progamers also didn't make it as well.
So you begin the tournament by excluding progamers who have a legitimate shot at qualifying in favor of whatever silver league player feels like signing up first. It doesn't invalidate the results, but it does cast a shadow over them. Then you have people who were knocked down by Hyun, Physicslee, and Comm. How would you feel if your tournament chances were ruined because you got matched against someone who was hacking or that you weren't supposed to play against to begin with?
Regardless of how remote your chances of qualifying were, the fact that your chance at qualification was ruined due to organizational incompetence more or less invalidates the tournament. So no, not every player that qualified deserves their spot. Apocalypse in particular had a much easier time with qualifying due to Comm's disqualification. This isn't the player's fault in any way though, they played well, but MLG fucked up big enough that the legitimacy of the entire qualifier should be called into question.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
because they were told to hold a fucking OPEN QUALIFIER by blizzard. fair chances for everyone. if MLG wants to be racist their rights to hold this event should be revoked. simple.
but you guessed right: MLG is all about the money.
He gets it?.. Again? Well.. it's already too late, the event is ruined for lots of people who wanted to participate. Writing a half assed apology that took 5 minutes doesn't help the people that got shafted at all.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
because they were told to hold a fucking OPEN QUALIFIER by blizzard. fair chances for everyone. if MLG wants to be racist their rights to hold this event should be revoked. simple.
but you guessed right: MLG is all about the money.
That is the only way the game can survive in the long term. At some point the tournaments have to at least break even. Perhaps they do now with Blizzard financing the prizes.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
because they were told to hold a fucking OPEN QUALIFIER by blizzard. fair chances for everyone. if MLG wants to be racist their rights to hold this event should be revoked. simple.
but you guessed right: MLG is all about the money.
That is the only way the game can survive in the long term. At some point the tournaments have to at least break even.
this is WCS funded by BLIZZARD. stop talking bullshit already...
edit: nice edit... haha. now your post contradicts itself.
On April 23 2013 21:26 Dracid wrote: Regardless of how remote your chances of qualifying were, the fact that your chance at qualification was ruined due to organizational incompetence more or less invalidates the tournament.
This!
The future WCS-NA champion is not a champion at all. That a tournament uses the word "championship" doesnt mean it is one.. this WCS-NA is a farce.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
because they were told to hold a fucking OPEN QUALIFIER by blizzard. fair chances for everyone. if MLG wants to be racist their rights to hold this event should be revoked. simple.
but you guessed right: MLG is all about the money.
That is the only way the game can survive in the long term. At some point the tournaments have to at least break even. Perhaps they do now with Blizzard financing the prizes.
Why dont you reply to my post why its void? Not a single post I wrote is unreasonable blind bashing. I put time and effort in all of them and anyone who wanted to improve their quality or read honest criticism could, but since you called me out you chose to ignore me
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
because they were told to hold a fucking OPEN QUALIFIER by blizzard. fair chances for everyone. if MLG wants to be racist their rights to hold this event should be revoked. simple.
but you guessed right: MLG is all about the money.
That is the only way the game can survive in the long term. At some point the tournaments have to at least break even. Perhaps they do now with Blizzard financing the prizes.
Why dont you reply to my post why its void? Not a single post I wrote is unreasonable blind bashing. I put time and effort in all of them and anyone who wanted to improve their quality or read honest criticism could, but since you called me out you chose to ignore me
I don't agree with what you said, but I admit you aren't anywhere near what I consider the problem. Your initial post was the catalyst for mine, but it wasn't targeted at you per se. I don't think arguing the topic of invalidity is going to lead anywhere useful.
To everyone arguing please, stop it if you are half informed or have no idea what the hell is going on. It is so tiring to see posts over and over arguing without knowing what actually happened and just putting in their speculations/imaginary ideas in their arguments. Its not that hard to find what went down. There are two threads.
You can't deny the fact that MLG damaged the integrity of WCS competition in various ways and a statement saying oh oops we won't let it happen again doesn't cut it. They have to offer some compensation to those that were affected. That is what the community wants. We are not asking MLG to throw a bone for us. It has nothing to do with Sundance's tweet about community asking for more. That is not the issue here. People are unhappy not because MLG screwed us over. Its the fact that they ruined the integrity of the tournament and many people who had a chance were left out because of stupid shit like 512 player limit(no fucking excuse when EU quali had thousand(s) over on all days), hacker(this I can forgive its not easy to tell), HyuN, misinformation by admin telling people they are in the tournament but were actually not. Stuff like that.
If people didn't complain about the entry fee, maybe we could have had less problems... I'm not defending Sundance, I believe MLG handled the situation poorly, but I think Blizzard is to blame too for not being transparent with rules and for rushing this whole thing.
On April 23 2013 07:11 bogderpirat wrote: yeah, this is not enough. i want to see someone get fired over this, the level of disappointment is just too big.
lol, you want someone to get fired for this? Spiteful much?
[edit] Not sure why anyone who was pro-esports would want an esports organization to downsize.
On April 23 2013 22:49 yotis wrote: Nice "get off my back" apology. TLDR: Hey guys we know we did something wrong, but we don't give a damn about fixing it, c ya.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
On April 23 2013 07:11 bogderpirat wrote: yeah, this is not enough. i want to see someone get fired over this, the level of disappointment is just too big.
lol, you want someone to get fired for this? Spiteful much?
[edit] Not sure why anyone who was pro-esports would want an esports organization to downsize.
because others, namely NASL, would take their place and do a better job?
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
I actually didnt hear about this until recently but it sounds abysmal. Why didn't let more chinese players participate? No offense to anyone but I think someone like IG.Xy is much better than at least 1/3 of the random players in the bracket. And then they DQ-ed Comm? it looks just like bullying at this point.
We should accept the apology from Sundance, and the only mistake that they made was not disqualified the gamers early enough that not following the rules themselves. Gamers should learn how to respect the rules of the tournament. If the host of the tournament don't take action against the Gamers that not following the rules, that may result in 10 or 15 participants show up in the final not the same ID user in qualifier in the future.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
I'm a fan of starcraft and i want to see the best play the best.
Judging from a lot of posts from na and eu sc2 fans on this very thread, i believe there are a lot of fans that actually do care about what happened to the chinese players and want to see justice. You say that there are very few chinese fans that spend money on mlg subs. You don't need to be chinese to support chinese sc2 players. I have supported and enjoyed sen's stream for years. Plenty of fans from different nationalities have posted on this thread asking about the chinese players and what is going to happen with them!
If mlg (sundance) at the very least, doesn't issue an apology for the chinese players and the knocked out hacked players, and indeed for all na partipants (not knowing a 512 man tournament was too small is quite shortsighted for a company such as mlg) as well as giving those chinese players seeds into the challenger league and/or the opportunity to play in it, then you will see a huge shitstorm start growing because fans make the community possible and fans will let blizzard know about it.
As for the wcs, i was really enthusiastic about it and i must admit i did like mlg broadcasts before but they way they handled the wcs na tournament was the worst handling of any tournament in sc2 history imo and it was dreadful. A company is supposed to rise to the occassion to handle the biggest sc2 tournament ever and mlg just fell flat on their faces. I'm just hoping mlg will fix this and sort out all the issues that people have pointed out because otherwise they will lose a lot of fans myself included.
It's supposed to be a new start to the game with a cause to celebrate but right now it's a big fat disappointment. If they keeping on screwing up then i can see a petition will start growing for nasl to replace or be cast along mlg as a competitor for wcs na as well as numerous tweets to blizzard.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
I don't pretend to know anything I can not gleam from the facts I can observe as an outsider. If there are few chinese tournaments, it is a reasonable conclusion that the local community isn't very large or willing to invest money into their hobby. I'm not sure how that is an insult in any way; there is nothing wrong with not considering sc2 something worth spending money on. If my assumption is incorrect, you are free to educate me on the matter.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
Was he wrong saying that China doesn't have much of a sc2 scene? If there were holes in his knowledge of the chinese sc2 scene feel free to fix them and not only state that he insulted you.
MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
On April 23 2013 23:45 Richard4021 wrote: Do the Chinese players know they need Visa and fly to US to participate the offline tournament if they qualified?
what a silly question is this? sure, they do. everyone does know that.
On April 23 2013 23:32 AXygnus wrote: I was under the impression the chinese players didn't play the qualifers because they checked in later than others.
On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote: MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
You know that for example Jim is #1 Bardcore on the Korean grandmaster ladder? Please be less ignorant and less insulting.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote: MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
You know that for example Jim is #1 Bardcore on the Korean grandmaster ladder? Please be less ignorant and less insulting.
haha yeah idk how you can say they had a .1% chance to qualify when all 3 chinese that did get in made it to the last round, and 2 missed qualifying by 1 map while comm got DQd. They didnt even get their best players in. >.>
On April 23 2013 23:45 Richard4021 wrote: Do the Chinese players know they need Visa and fly to US to participate the offline tournament if they qualified?
Is racism autorized in this thread? If it isn't sarcasm then what do I say, they aren't retarded so yes they know there is an offline part.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
I don't pretend to know anything I can not gleam from the facts I can observe as an outsider. If there are few chinese tournaments, it is a reasonable conclusion that the local community isn't very large or willing to invest money into their hobby. I'm not sure how that is an insult in any way; there is nothing wrong with not considering sc2 something worth spending money on. If my assumption is incorrect, you are free to educate me on the matter.
@syllogism. I don't understand your point. You say chinese fans prolly don't spend money on mlg therefore mlg shouldn't care about their opinions? Do you really think all the fans of the chinese sc2 players have to be chinese? There are plenty of na eu people who posted here who care a lot about the chinese sc2 players because they are part of the sc2 scene.
The finnish sc2 scene is a lot worse than the swedish sc2 scene. By your logic you equate the spending power of fans to potential tournament invites. Sweden has a much bigger sc2 scene than finland. Therefore finnish fans spend less than swedish fans, so why should dreamhack/mlg invite finnish players? Why not just ignore them and invite the more famous swedish sc2 players? That's your logic when it comes to chinese fans/players. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
No he didn't say they aren't worth any money. He said they don't spend money into mlg. Everybody knows that chinese people are incredibly rich now. Whenever i go shopping, i see chinese signs because chinese people are so rich now that every single shop in london wants their money. The stereotype used to be the poor chinese peasant but now it's the rich chinese shopper
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
I don't pretend to know anything I can not gleam from the facts I can observe as an outsider. If there are few chinese tournaments, it is a reasonable conclusion that the local community isn't very large or willing to invest money into their hobby. I'm not sure how that is an insult in any way; there is nothing wrong with not considering sc2 something worth spending money on. If my assumption is incorrect, you are free to educate me on the matter.
@syllogism. I don't understand your point. You say chinese fans prolly don't spend money on mlg therefore mlg shouldn't care about their opinions? Do you really think all the fans of the chinese sc2 players have to be chinese? There are plenty of na eu people who posted here who care a lot about the chinese sc2 players because they are part of the sc2 scene.
The finnish sc2 scene is a lot worse than the swedish sc2 scene. By your logic you equate the spending power of fans to potential tournament invites. Sweden has a much bigger sc2 scene than finland. Therefore finnish fans spend less than swedish fans, so why should dreamhack/mlg invite finnish players? Why not just ignore them and invite the more famous swedish sc2 players? That's your logic when it comes to chinese fans/players. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
You are reading too much into what I said. I was suggesting that everyone should understand that not every voice of the community means the same to the businesses who run tournaments. In BW the korean tournament organizers did not care about the foreign fans at all. I did not suggest that their top players don't deserve to participate in MLG just like anyone else, although it is very natural if WCS NA prioritizes local players. I agree that DH should invite more swedish players as based on my impressions they are overall better players. I don't think you are going to be very successful at catching me in hypocrisy; I appreciate talent, character and intelligence in players, not their nationalities.
On April 23 2013 23:50 syllogism wrote: For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar.
WCS is an OPEN tournament, not a LOCAL one.
On April 23 2013 23:48 Sienionelain wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
No he didn't say they aren't worth any money. He said they don't spend money into mlg. Everybody knows that chinese people are incredibly rich now. Whenever i go shopping, i see chinese signs because chinese people are so rich now that every single shop in london wants their money. The stereotype used to be the poor chinese peasant but now it's the rich chinese shopper
The suggestion was not based on any stereotypes, but the fact that there are few local tournaments and that is why their sc2 pro scene is struggling. Quite similarly I'm certain that Finnish spectators are, even relatively, a much worse revenue source than north american ones. Even targeting us with useful stream ads is difficult.
It is so disappointing that in America we have NO open bracket tournament anymore and we have 330+ million people in the country, its a big country and NONE. As someone who just wants to compete, I am so DEFEATED. There is nothing to play in. Z33k, Playhem, MLG, IPL (had even payed sign up fee), all down. So I am trying, but its just so discouraging. I was also signed up and checked in at the moment it was open. So I wonder why the WCS tourneys where so crazy different? It also maybe should not have been so hyped that "anyone could still sign up". The tourney was already like 6k people signed up for the 512. Seems like the EU format best suited the foreigners, where NA was a GSL style tournament. I want to know; Will NA EVER have another open bracket tournament to play in? Probably not.
On April 23 2013 23:39 Richard4021 wrote: We should accept the apology from Sundance, and the only mistake that they made was not disqualified the gamers early enough that not following the rules themselves. Gamers should learn how to respect the rules of the tournament. If the host of the tournament don't take action against the Gamers that not following the rules, that may result in 10 or 15 participants show up in the final not the same ID user in qualifier in the future.
Players wouldn't have had to swap IDs if the tournament had been open like it was meant to be, they should have done that, there isn't really much they can do but make sure they don't fuck up the next one and maybe replay games that were rendered void by hackers/DQs.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
From financial viewpoint they have no interest in chinese viewers if they are not worth them money. That is how companies work. If he said they shouldn't care about chinese viewers because they are chinese it could be interpreted as racist. However it is not the case and I still see no racism in his original statement.
For me the most horrible thing about WCS NA was the absolute lack of community consolidation around it.
I really enjoyed the number of streams available during WCS EU and being able to find something interesting to watch at any given point.
It really sucks that we didn't get all the community casters rallying around the WCS qualifier, highlighting different games and keeping the whole thing alive and kicking. Instead we got replays and a ton of skyline.
The WCS should have community coverage for the qualifiers, the cake is too big for one company to eat.
On April 23 2013 23:50 syllogism wrote: For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar.
WCS is an OPEN tournament, not a LOCAL one.
On April 23 2013 23:48 Sienionelain wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
No he didn't say they aren't worth any money. He said they don't spend money into mlg. Everybody knows that chinese people are incredibly rich now. Whenever i go shopping, i see chinese signs because chinese people are so rich now that every single shop in london wants their money. The stereotype used to be the poor chinese peasant but now it's the rich chinese shopper
chinese people spending money on MLG events is as possible as europeans or koreans spending money on MLG events. those are all not very likely since who goes to MLG events from different continents? (i don't count PPV online crap). on the other hand: if they welcomed the chinese their stream viewing numbers could go up quite a lot. giving them MORE money in return.
especially since WCS is blizzard funded and MLG money doesn't even come into play here. at least not the way he described it. obviously MLG tried to cut its own costs on staff as much as possible to make more revenue which resulted in this horrendous qualifier.
either way his statement makes no sense and is a direct insult to chinese viewers.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
From financial viewpoint they have no interest in chinese viewers if they are not worth them money. That is how companies work. If he said they shouldn't care about chinese viewers because they are chinese it could be interpreted as racist. However it is not the case and I still see no racism in his original statement.
WCS is sponsored by BLIZZARD. and they explicitly stated they want an OPEN QUALIFIER. the MLG interpretation of OPEN is like total crap. they thought it meant gold and platinum players, when blizzard was obviously aiming for equal rights for different countries.
On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote: MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
.1% chance to qualify? Comm aside, Top and Macsed were both 1 game away from qualifying, and Macsed 2-0d Sage and JYP to get there as well as taking a game off of Oz. XY is of a comparable skill level, and Jim is arguably even better than them.
This is exactly why I'm pissed actually. The Chinese scene is pretty isolated compared to the rest of the world, so you rarely see Chinese players in tournaments and nobody really knows who they are. They practice though, they practice hard. The Koreans are of course still better, but skill-wise they're up there with top players from the rest of the world. So they've got good players, but very few opportunities to show that they're good, leading to people like Doc.Rivers giving them a .1% chance to qualify despite 3 of the top 12 being Chinese.
People complain about Koreans taking over WCS NA but you've still got 16 seeded slots for the premier league, the Chinese got ZERO. WCS China is gone, WCS Korea is scary and requires you to enter the GSL, and China to EU is laggy, so WCS NA more or less becomes China's region for WCS. Opportunities for top Chinese players to compete with the rest of the world are fairly rare to begin with, if that opportunity gets denied by incompetent tournament organization then of course people are going to be upset. Saying you'll "fix it next time" isn't much of a consolation when MLG's the ones who messed up and every WCS event counts towards the grand finals.
I don't know why Blizzard would ever partner up with MLG unless money was their sole concern. In terms of quality, customer relations, image and execution of events MLG was a horrible partner to choose.
Has Blizzard given up on the Chinese market? I don't see how they expect SC2 to grow in China if they can't even get Chinese players into their premiere event...
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
Well... It seems to "suit" MLG's general business model and approach to e-sport in general.
Well, to discuss here with the strange opinions of some people has no sense. So, i will post my opinion and get out of here. First of all, I mostly agree with sase and typenaruto. If there will be no invites for the chinese whatsoever, i don't care if blizzard does this or mlg or esl or someone else, i will be very disappointed with all of these organisations. Mostly with mlg though. this statement means little, it means they recognized our anger towards them, but it doesn't mean that they actually give something about the fate of the chinese players and the players who joined this bracket just to get knocked out by hackers/hyun. Most of the reasons, why this was a disaster mentioned in the apology, were very obvious, for example "the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated". I can only laugh about this. all in all, i like that they did a statement, but how this apology was structured after such a weekend is just absurd. in the next few days, I demand invites for the chinese players, i demand mlg to directly say sorry to the chinese players, and the players who got knocked out by this hacker (why do such people exist anyways, I don't get it, as idra yesterday said "such a waste of life"). finally, I demand mlg admins that are not fully retarded. someone has to do something, has to act not just talk, this isn't very serious, the apology isn't serious, if someone takes esports serious, he should start acting, and not talking and posting this childish apology. hf gl.
On April 23 2013 23:50 syllogism wrote: For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar.
WCS is an OPEN tournament, not a LOCAL one.
On April 23 2013 23:48 Sienionelain wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
Well... It seems to "suit" MLG's general business model and approach to e-sport in general.
sad but true. i hope blizzard sues them for violating the "OPEN" part of the WCS qualifier contract. i'm still laughing about the definition of OPEN on MLGs side: include bronze and platinum, exclude chinese, limit to 512 players. ESL on the other hand tried to make it as "open" as possible. i don't think MLG should get away with this excuse.
On April 24 2013 00:22 Undead1993 wrote: Well, to discuss here with the strange opinions of some people has no sense. So, i will post my opinion and get out of here. First of all, I mostly agree with sase and typenaruto. If there will be no invites for the chinese whatsoever, i don't care if blizzard does this or mlg or esl or someone else, i will be very disappointed with all of these organisations. Mostly with mlg though. this statement means little, it means they recognized our anger towards them, but it doesn't mean that they actually give something about the fate of the chinese players and the players who joined this bracket just to get knocked out by hackers/hyun. Most of the reasons, why this was a disaster mentioned in the apology, were very obvious, for example "the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated". I can only laugh about this. all in all, i like that they did a statement, but how this apology was structured after such a weekend is just absurd. in the next few days, I demand invites for the chinese players, i demand mlg to directly say sorry to the chinese players, and the players who got knocked out by this hacker (why do such people exist anyways, I don't get it, as idra yesterday said "such a waste of life"). finally, I demand mlg admins that are not fully retarded. someone has to do something, has to act not just talk, this isn't very serious, the apology isn't serious, if someone takes esports serious, he should start acting, and not talking and posting this childish apology. hf gl.
You cannot demand a company to do something for you when they give you a free product. Was a lot of the stuff that happened shitty? Yes it was but to demand a company to something when they gave you a free product is just ridiculous. If you do not like what they do then tune out and watch it support something else and when MLG sees that they cannot sustain a buisness with what they are doing due to people leaving g is when we will truly see change. Not from people shining over and over on an internet forum.
As for the definition of open has blizzard specifically said what theirs is or was the decision left to the individual organizer?
Poll: In which way should MLG try to undo what has been done
Organise WCS-NA qualifiers again. (81)
58%
Let comm play his final match (no extra actions required) (32)
23%
In another way not defined above (20)
14%
None of the above (or not MLG fault) (6)
4%
139 total votes
Your vote: In which way should MLG try to undo what has been done
(Vote): Organise WCS-NA qualifiers again. (Vote): Let comm play his final match (no extra actions required) (Vote): In another way not defined above (Vote): None of the above (or not MLG fault)
Couldn't care less about an apology, especially one coming from someone whose fault it really wasn't. Blizzard rushed this shit out the door and clearly placed brutally ridiculous and random constraints on organizations that were haphazard at best. Sure the 512 bracket and ignoring of Chinese players was really shit and I think that deserves to be noted, but the product itself was a Blizzard-born clusterfuck. Their fault, not Sundance or anyone at MLG.
On April 24 2013 00:22 Undead1993 wrote: Well, to discuss here with the strange opinions of some people has no sense. So, i will post my opinion and get out of here. First of all, I mostly agree with sase and typenaruto. If there will be no invites for the chinese whatsoever, i don't care if blizzard does this or mlg or esl or someone else, i will be very disappointed with all of these organisations. Mostly with mlg though. this statement means little, it means they recognized our anger towards them, but it doesn't mean that they actually give something about the fate of the chinese players and the players who joined this bracket just to get knocked out by hackers/hyun. Most of the reasons, why this was a disaster mentioned in the apology, were very obvious, for example "the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated". I can only laugh about this. all in all, i like that they did a statement, but how this apology was structured after such a weekend is just absurd. in the next few days, I demand invites for the chinese players, i demand mlg to directly say sorry to the chinese players, and the players who got knocked out by this hacker (why do such people exist anyways, I don't get it, as idra yesterday said "such a waste of life"). finally, I demand mlg admins that are not fully retarded. someone has to do something, has to act not just talk, this isn't very serious, the apology isn't serious, if someone takes esports serious, he should start acting, and not talking and posting this childish apology. hf gl.
You cannot demand a company to do something for you when they give you a free product. Was a lot of the stuff that happened shitty? Yes it was but to demand a company to something when they gave you a free product is just ridiculous. If you do not like what they do then tune out and watch it support something else and when MLG sees that they cannot sustain a buisness with what they are doing due to people leaving g is when we will truly see change. Not from people shining over and over on an internet forum.
As for the definition of open has blizzard specifically said what theirs is or was the decision left to the individual organizer?
we haven't seen the contract and probably won't ever see it. but the descrepancy between ESLs definition and MLGs is pretty obvious. WCS is a blizzard funded product btw. your logic doesn't apply here.
On April 24 2013 00:22 Undead1993 wrote: Well, to discuss here with the strange opinions of some people has no sense. So, i will post my opinion and get out of here. First of all, I mostly agree with sase and typenaruto. If there will be no invites for the chinese whatsoever, i don't care if blizzard does this or mlg or esl or someone else, i will be very disappointed with all of these organisations. Mostly with mlg though. this statement means little, it means they recognized our anger towards them, but it doesn't mean that they actually give something about the fate of the chinese players and the players who joined this bracket just to get knocked out by hackers/hyun. Most of the reasons, why this was a disaster mentioned in the apology, were very obvious, for example "the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated". I can only laugh about this. all in all, i like that they did a statement, but how this apology was structured after such a weekend is just absurd. in the next few days, I demand invites for the chinese players, i demand mlg to directly say sorry to the chinese players, and the players who got knocked out by this hacker (why do such people exist anyways, I don't get it, as idra yesterday said "such a waste of life"). finally, I demand mlg admins that are not fully retarded. someone has to do something, has to act not just talk, this isn't very serious, the apology isn't serious, if someone takes esports serious, he should start acting, and not talking and posting this childish apology. hf gl.
You cannot demand a company to do something for you when they give you a free product. Was a lot of the stuff that happened shitty? Yes it was but to demand a company to something when they gave you a free product is just ridiculous. If you do not like what they do then tune out and watch it support something else and when MLG sees that they cannot sustain a buisness with what they are doing due to people leaving g is when we will truly see change. Not from people shining over and over on an internet forum.
As for the definition of open has blizzard specifically said what theirs is or was the decision left to the individual organizer?
we haven't seen the contract and probably won't ever see it. but the descrepancy between ESLs definition and MLGs is pretty obvious. WCS is a blizzard funded product btw. your logic doesn't apply here.
How does my logic not apply? We get free product. The only people who can truly demand a change is Blizzard and like you said we do not know what is in the contract between the two. Therefore, my logic still value unless you meant something else.
I'm glad he made this public apology, but it better not be hollow; I (and I'm sure everyone else) want to see things get fixed and problems get solved, and not have the same huge issues for the rest of the tournament.
On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote: MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
.1% chance to qualify? Comm aside, Top and Macsed were both 1 game away from qualifying, and Macsed 2-0d Sage and JYP to get there as well as taking a game off of Oz. XY is of a comparable skill level, and Jim is arguably even better than them.
This is exactly why I'm pissed actually. The Chinese scene is pretty isolated compared to the rest of the world, so you rarely see Chinese players in tournaments and nobody really knows who they are. They practice though, they practice hard. The Koreans are of course still better, but skill-wise they're up there with top players from the rest of the world. So they've got good players, but very few opportunities to show that they're good, leading to people like Doc.Rivers giving them a .1% chance to qualify despite 3 of the top 12 being Chinese.
People complain about Koreans taking over WCS NA but you've still got 16 seeded slots for the premier league, the Chinese got ZERO. WCS China is gone, WCS Korea is scary and requires you to enter the GSL, and China to EU is laggy, so WCS NA more or less becomes China's region for WCS. Opportunities for top Chinese players to compete with the rest of the world are fairly rare to begin with, if that opportunity gets denied by incompetent tournament organization then of course people are going to be upset. Saying you'll "fix it next time" isn't much of a consolation when MLG's the ones who messed up and every WCS event counts towards the grand finals.
Ironically, a lot of the fans were intrigued and interested in what the sc2 chinese scene was like, myself included. WCS NA was a good opportunity to showcase chinese sc2 talents on the world stage. Instead of making the most of an ample opportunity, mlg decided to completely and utterly ruin wcs na's reputation in a week's worth of inept bungling that Mr Bean, himself, would be proud of.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
I don't pretend to know anything I can not gleam from the facts I can observe as an outsider. If there are few chinese tournaments, it is a reasonable conclusion that the local community isn't very large or willing to invest money into their hobby. I'm not sure how that is an insult in any way; there is nothing wrong with not considering sc2 something worth spending money on. If my assumption is incorrect, you are free to educate me on the matter.
@syllogism. I don't understand your point. You say chinese fans prolly don't spend money on mlg therefore mlg shouldn't care about their opinions? Do you really think all the fans of the chinese sc2 players have to be chinese? There are plenty of na eu people who posted here who care a lot about the chinese sc2 players because they are part of the sc2 scene.
The finnish sc2 scene is a lot worse than the swedish sc2 scene. By your logic you equate the spending power of fans to potential tournament invites. Sweden has a much bigger sc2 scene than finland. Therefore finnish fans spend less than swedish fans, so why should dreamhack/mlg invite finnish players? Why not just ignore them and invite the more famous swedish sc2 players? That's your logic when it comes to chinese fans/players. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
You are reading too much into what I said. I was suggesting that everyone should understand that not every voice of the community means the same to the businesses who run tournaments. In BW the korean tournament organizers did not care about the foreign fans at all. I did not suggest that their top players don't deserve to participate in MLG just like anyone else, although it is very natural if WCS NA prioritizes local players. I agree that DH should invite more swedish players as based on my impressions they are overall better players. I don't think you are going to be very successful at catching me in hypocrisy; I appreciate talent, character and intelligence in players, not their nationalities.
On April 23 2013 23:50 syllogism wrote: For the record, there are few Finnish tournaments and I'm sure the reasons for that are quite similar.
WCS is an OPEN tournament, not a LOCAL one.
On April 23 2013 23:48 Sienionelain wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:20 fleeze wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:14 digmouse wrote:
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
No he didn't say they aren't worth any money. He said they don't spend money into mlg. Everybody knows that chinese people are incredibly rich now. Whenever i go shopping, i see chinese signs because chinese people are so rich now that every single shop in london wants their money. The stereotype used to be the poor chinese peasant but now it's the rich chinese shopper
Haha you are a funny man. In BW you could go and play in Korea if you are good enough and have the desire to do so. Grrrr and Idra did. I did not follow BW too closely so I cannot say if more did. Also they never intended to make it an international tournament. It was fine to them if foreigners didn't come to their country to play BW. They never intended for them to come anyways. If they wanna come sure you can come but they have absolutely no obligation to cater to the needs of foreigners. Your comparisons you made in your arguments are so laughable I don't even know why I'm trying to reply to you.
Its so easy for you to say WCS NA should prioritize local players. What happens to SEA? You mean to say Blizz(the organiser) don't care about them. K so why they invite moonglade, Sen + shit ton of KR into premier. Half of invites are to NA players but still they did not ignore the other regions. Blizz meant for WCS NA and EU to be international tournaments. For KR they know noones gonna go there anyways other than Koreans since its too tough and the structure is already there so they don't wanna change it.
I appreciate talent, character and intelligence in players, not their nationalities.
Then you should be upset that shitty gold/plat/dia w/e low leaguer NA players got to play in the qualifier instead of pros/semi-pros from China Aus etc. I specify low leaguer NA cuz no shitty player from Eastern part of the world is stay up at 2AM to play in the qualifier to lose in the first round.
The suggestion was not based on any stereotypes, but the fact that there are few local tournaments and that is why their sc2 pro scene is struggling. Quite similarly I'm certain that Finnish spectators are, even relatively, a much worse revenue source than north american ones. Even targeting us with useful stream ads is difficult.
Another unrelated argument. So? I don't see EU qualifiers screwing over Finnish players or whoever. I understand EU qualis had some issues as well but we're not here to discuss that. Look the thing is Blizz wants WCS to be something that players from every nation has a chance to compete in. Thats why they started this in the first place, so it is not ok to do what you are suggesting.
Sure if you just wanna host a tournament and you don't care about player demographics do what you want. If that was the case your argument is valid. But that is not the case here.
On April 24 2013 00:22 Undead1993 wrote: Well, to discuss here with the strange opinions of some people has no sense. So, i will post my opinion and get out of here. First of all, I mostly agree with sase and typenaruto. If there will be no invites for the chinese whatsoever, i don't care if blizzard does this or mlg or esl or someone else, i will be very disappointed with all of these organisations. Mostly with mlg though. this statement means little, it means they recognized our anger towards them, but it doesn't mean that they actually give something about the fate of the chinese players and the players who joined this bracket just to get knocked out by hackers/hyun. Most of the reasons, why this was a disaster mentioned in the apology, were very obvious, for example "the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated". I can only laugh about this. all in all, i like that they did a statement, but how this apology was structured after such a weekend is just absurd. in the next few days, I demand invites for the chinese players, i demand mlg to directly say sorry to the chinese players, and the players who got knocked out by this hacker (why do such people exist anyways, I don't get it, as idra yesterday said "such a waste of life"). finally, I demand mlg admins that are not fully retarded. someone has to do something, has to act not just talk, this isn't very serious, the apology isn't serious, if someone takes esports serious, he should start acting, and not talking and posting this childish apology. hf gl.
You cannot demand a company to do something for you when they give you a free product. Was a lot of the stuff that happened shitty? Yes it was but to demand a company to something when they gave you a free product is just ridiculous. If you do not like what they do then tune out and watch it support something else and when MLG sees that they cannot sustain a buisness with what they are doing due to people leaving g is when we will truly see change. Not from people shining over and over on an internet forum.
As for the definition of open has blizzard specifically said what theirs is or was the decision left to the individual organizer?
we haven't seen the contract and probably won't ever see it. but the descrepancy between ESLs definition and MLGs is pretty obvious. WCS is a blizzard funded product btw. your logic doesn't apply here.
How does my logic not apply? We get free product. The only people who can truly demand a change is Blizzard and like you said we do not know what is in the contract between the two. Therefore, my logic still value unless you meant something else.
for me, your logic doesnt apply because with "I" i actully mean the whole community. i alone can't demand anything you are quite right on that, but the whole community should demand it, and thats what they care about, the viewers. unfortunately, you didn't quite undestand that. I will for sure not act like "I am kiddie on an inet forum give me what i want!. I hope you understand that right now, and it's not a free product if they get sponsored by people, they get money to do the right thing and they didn't. therefore, there must be consequences.
On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote: MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
.1% chance to qualify? Comm aside, Top and Macsed were both 1 game away from qualifying, and Macsed 2-0d Sage and JYP to get there as well as taking a game off of Oz. XY is of a comparable skill level, and Jim is arguably even better than them.
This is exactly why I'm pissed actually. The Chinese scene is pretty isolated compared to the rest of the world, so you rarely see Chinese players in tournaments and nobody really knows who they are. They practice though, they practice hard. The Koreans are of course still better, but skill-wise they're up there with top players from the rest of the world. So they've got good players, but very few opportunities to show that they're good, leading to people like Doc.Rivers giving them a .1% chance to qualify despite 3 of the top 12 being Chinese.
People complain about Koreans taking over WCS NA but you've still got 16 seeded slots for the premier league, the Chinese got ZERO. WCS China is gone, WCS Korea is scary and requires you to enter the GSL, and China to EU is laggy, so WCS NA more or less becomes China's region for WCS. Opportunities for top Chinese players to compete with the rest of the world are fairly rare to begin with, if that opportunity gets denied by incompetent tournament organization then of course people are going to be upset. Saying you'll "fix it next time" isn't much of a consolation when MLG's the ones who messed up and every WCS event counts towards the grand finals.
You are right about their chances to qualify and I was incorrect to say .1%. My overall point that MLG didn't kill any children and the scene won't be damaged by this still stands though.
Should MLGhave foreseen that Chinese players should've seeded Ito the qualifiers? I didn't see any calls from the community before the event for it happen. This leads me to believe its a hindsight 20/20 kind of thing. Nonetheless it's very unfortunate the Chinese didn't get to play and it was a mistake by MLG. Not much can be done about it now short of red-doing the qualifiers which can't happen. All we can do is wait for MLG to improve in the future, which they will.
IMO the tone and quantity of complaints in these threads is not productive and out of proportion to the crime.
Poll: In which way should MLG try to undo what has been done
Organise WCS-NA qualifiers again. (81)
58%
Let comm play his final match (no extra actions required) (32)
23%
In another way not defined above (20)
14%
None of the above (or not MLG fault) (6)
4%
139 total votes
Your vote: In which way should MLG try to undo what has been done
(Vote): Organise WCS-NA qualifiers again. (Vote): Let comm play his final match (no extra actions required) (Vote): In another way not defined above (Vote): None of the above (or not MLG fault)
Lol @ how counterproductive your first poll is. Some really positive contribution to the community there bud.
On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote: MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
.1% chance to qualify? Comm aside, Top and Macsed were both 1 game away from qualifying, and Macsed 2-0d Sage and JYP to get there as well as taking a game off of Oz. XY is of a comparable skill level, and Jim is arguably even better than them.
This is exactly why I'm pissed actually. The Chinese scene is pretty isolated compared to the rest of the world, so you rarely see Chinese players in tournaments and nobody really knows who they are. They practice though, they practice hard. The Koreans are of course still better, but skill-wise they're up there with top players from the rest of the world. So they've got good players, but very few opportunities to show that they're good, leading to people like Doc.Rivers giving them a .1% chance to qualify despite 3 of the top 12 being Chinese.
People complain about Koreans taking over WCS NA but you've still got 16 seeded slots for the premier league, the Chinese got ZERO. WCS China is gone, WCS Korea is scary and requires you to enter the GSL, and China to EU is laggy, so WCS NA more or less becomes China's region for WCS. Opportunities for top Chinese players to compete with the rest of the world are fairly rare to begin with, if that opportunity gets denied by incompetent tournament organization then of course people are going to be upset. Saying you'll "fix it next time" isn't much of a consolation when MLG's the ones who messed up and every WCS event counts towards the grand finals.
You are right about their chances to qualify and I was incorrect to say .1%. My overall point that MLG didn't kill any children and the scene won't be damaged by this still stands though.
Should MLGhave foreseen that Chinese players should've seeded Ito the qualifiers? I didn't see any calls from the community before the event for it happen. This leads me to believe its a hindsight 20/20 kind of thing. Nonetheless it's very unfortunate the Chinese didn't get to play and it was a mistake by MLG. Not much can be done about it now short of red-doing the qualifiers which can't happen. All we can do is wait for MLG to improve in the future, which they will.
IMO the tone and quantity of complaints in these threads is not productive and out of proportion to the crime.
As a former semi pro player that has played in TL open and many other online tournaments of equal or greater size, your statement is entirely flawed, no one is asking for chinese players to get seeded, just that they be given a far chance like everyone else. But for an MLG official to tell them they have spots, then take those spots away, is entirely unacceptable. Not to mention someone as "experienced" in hosting tournaments as MLG should of fucking known how big this was gonna be and had multiple brackets, instead they fucked up and you can't defend their actions because they are in the wrong here.
On April 24 2013 00:22 Undead1993 wrote: Well, to discuss here with the strange opinions of some people has no sense. So, i will post my opinion and get out of here. First of all, I mostly agree with sase and typenaruto. If there will be no invites for the chinese whatsoever, i don't care if blizzard does this or mlg or esl or someone else, i will be very disappointed with all of these organisations. Mostly with mlg though. this statement means little, it means they recognized our anger towards them, but it doesn't mean that they actually give something about the fate of the chinese players and the players who joined this bracket just to get knocked out by hackers/hyun. Most of the reasons, why this was a disaster mentioned in the apology, were very obvious, for example "the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated". I can only laugh about this. all in all, i like that they did a statement, but how this apology was structured after such a weekend is just absurd. in the next few days, I demand invites for the chinese players, i demand mlg to directly say sorry to the chinese players, and the players who got knocked out by this hacker (why do such people exist anyways, I don't get it, as idra yesterday said "such a waste of life"). finally, I demand mlg admins that are not fully retarded. someone has to do something, has to act not just talk, this isn't very serious, the apology isn't serious, if someone takes esports serious, he should start acting, and not talking and posting this childish apology. hf gl.
You cannot demand a company to do something for you when they give you a free product. Was a lot of the stuff that happened shitty? Yes it was but to demand a company to something when they gave you a free product is just ridiculous. If you do not like what they do then tune out and watch it support something else and when MLG sees that they cannot sustain a buisness with what they are doing due to people leaving g is when we will truly see change. Not from people shining over and over on an internet forum.
As for the definition of open has blizzard specifically said what theirs is or was the decision left to the individual organizer?
we haven't seen the contract and probably won't ever see it. but the descrepancy between ESLs definition and MLGs is pretty obvious. WCS is a blizzard funded product btw. your logic doesn't apply here.
How does my logic not apply? We get free product. The only people who can truly demand a change is Blizzard and like you said we do not know what is in the contract between the two. Therefore, my logic still value unless you meant something else.
for me, your logic doesnt apply because with "I" i actully mean the whole community. i alone can't demand anything you are quite right on that, but the whole community should demand it, and thats what they care about, the viewers. unfortunately, you didn't quite undestand that. I will for sure not act like "I am kiddie on an inet forum give me what i want!. I hope you understand that right now, and it's not a free product if they get sponsored by people, they get money to do the right thing and they didn't. therefore, there must be consequences.
Obviously we have fundamental differences on the views of business and that results in our different views. Yes, they have sponsers and the only thing sponsors care about is getting their name out there. As long as they are still pulling 8k+ viewers on a week and not having a scandal such MLG is money laundering. Therefore the only organization they are responsible to is Blizzard. Until they drop down to 1k or 500 people or less on weekdays I doubt anything will change.
Unfortunately I probably won't be able to respond for a while as my break is almost up but I will try to respond to your rebuttal when I get a chance.
On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote: MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
.1% chance to qualify? Comm aside, Top and Macsed were both 1 game away from qualifying, and Macsed 2-0d Sage and JYP to get there as well as taking a game off of Oz. XY is of a comparable skill level, and Jim is arguably even better than them.
This is exactly why I'm pissed actually. The Chinese scene is pretty isolated compared to the rest of the world, so you rarely see Chinese players in tournaments and nobody really knows who they are. They practice though, they practice hard. The Koreans are of course still better, but skill-wise they're up there with top players from the rest of the world. So they've got good players, but very few opportunities to show that they're good, leading to people like Doc.Rivers giving them a .1% chance to qualify despite 3 of the top 12 being Chinese.
People complain about Koreans taking over WCS NA but you've still got 16 seeded slots for the premier league, the Chinese got ZERO. WCS China is gone, WCS Korea is scary and requires you to enter the GSL, and China to EU is laggy, so WCS NA more or less becomes China's region for WCS. Opportunities for top Chinese players to compete with the rest of the world are fairly rare to begin with, if that opportunity gets denied by incompetent tournament organization then of course people are going to be upset. Saying you'll "fix it next time" isn't much of a consolation when MLG's the ones who messed up and every WCS event counts towards the grand finals.
You are right about their chances to qualify and I was incorrect to say .1%. My overall point that MLG didn't kill any children and the scene won't be damaged by this still stands though.
Should MLGhave foreseen that Chinese players should've seeded Ito the qualifiers? I didn't see any calls from the community before the event for it happen. This leads me to believe its a hindsight 20/20 kind of thing. Nonetheless it's very unfortunate the Chinese didn't get to play and it was a mistake by MLG. Not much can be done about it now short of red-doing the qualifiers which can't happen. All we can do is wait for MLG to improve in the future, which they will.
IMO the tone and quantity of complaints in these threads is not productive and out of proportion to the crime.
As a former semi pro player that has played in TL open and many other online tournaments of equal or greater size, your statement is entirely flawed, no one is asking for chinese players to get seeded, just that they be given a far chance like everyone else. But for an MLG official to tell them they have spots, then take those spots away, is entirely unacceptable. Not to mention someone as "experienced" in hosting tournaments as MLG should of fucking known how big this was gonna be and had multiple brackets, instead they fucked up and you can't defend their actions because they are in the wrong here.
I don't defend their actions, I admit they screwed up. You can continue to condemn them but its not productive.
as a way to compare WCS 2012 with WCS 2013 let's count the number of official apologies
people can make excuses for Blizzard and point fingers at GSL for changing their prize pool... point fingers at ESL for getting the check in times messed up... and point fingers at MLG for this recent debacle..
but the common thread is .. its Blizzard's baby.... its their badly rushed to market WCS ...
and ultimately, a great WCS would help future SC2 sales... and a horrible WCS event won't help future SC2 sales.
so ultimately, Blizzard will pay the highest price for this.. because the big money maker in this entire machinery is selling copies of Starcraft.
keep the excuses for Blizzard coming though.. its entertaining to twist my mind into a pretzel of rationalizations... trying to follow the logic of these great excuses.
On April 23 2013 23:49 Doc.Rivers wrote: MLG screwed up but they didn't kill any children. I'm satisfied with the apology and trust that future online MLG tourneys will not have the same problems.
Ultimately, the end results of WCS NA S1 probably won't be affected by this. All the spots with a worthwhile amount of points will be taken by Koreans. Sorry that 2 or 3 Chinese pros missed out on their .1% chance to qualify but it doesn't make the tournament a farce. I'll bet they don't even know how to get visas lol. Ultimately this qualifier won't have any lasting damaging affect on the scene.., that much is pretty obvious.
.1% chance to qualify? Comm aside, Top and Macsed were both 1 game away from qualifying, and Macsed 2-0d Sage and JYP to get there as well as taking a game off of Oz. XY is of a comparable skill level, and Jim is arguably even better than them.
This is exactly why I'm pissed actually. The Chinese scene is pretty isolated compared to the rest of the world, so you rarely see Chinese players in tournaments and nobody really knows who they are. They practice though, they practice hard. The Koreans are of course still better, but skill-wise they're up there with top players from the rest of the world. So they've got good players, but very few opportunities to show that they're good, leading to people like Doc.Rivers giving them a .1% chance to qualify despite 3 of the top 12 being Chinese.
People complain about Koreans taking over WCS NA but you've still got 16 seeded slots for the premier league, the Chinese got ZERO. WCS China is gone, WCS Korea is scary and requires you to enter the GSL, and China to EU is laggy, so WCS NA more or less becomes China's region for WCS. Opportunities for top Chinese players to compete with the rest of the world are fairly rare to begin with, if that opportunity gets denied by incompetent tournament organization then of course people are going to be upset. Saying you'll "fix it next time" isn't much of a consolation when MLG's the ones who messed up and every WCS event counts towards the grand finals.
You are right about their chances to qualify and I was incorrect to say .1%. My overall point that MLG didn't kill any children and the scene won't be damaged by this still stands though.
Should MLGhave foreseen that Chinese players should've seeded Ito the qualifiers? I didn't see any calls from the community before the event for it happen. This leads me to believe its a hindsight 20/20 kind of thing. Nonetheless it's very unfortunate the Chinese didn't get to play and it was a mistake by MLG. Not much can be done about it now short of red-doing the qualifiers which can't happen. All we can do is wait for MLG to improve in the future, which they will.
IMO the tone and quantity of complaints in these threads is not productive and out of proportion to the crime.
As a former semi pro player that has played in TL open and many other online tournaments of equal or greater size, your statement is entirely flawed, no one is asking for chinese players to get seeded, just that they be given a far chance like everyone else. But for an MLG official to tell them they have spots, then take those spots away, is entirely unacceptable. Not to mention someone as "experienced" in hosting tournaments as MLG should of fucking known how big this was gonna be and had multiple brackets, instead they fucked up and you can't defend their actions because they are in the wrong here.
I don't defend their actions, I admit they screwed up. You can continue to condemn them but its not productive.
there still are no fixes for the issues. it's not even condemning them but making them realize the problems are not solved at all with an apology. they didn't even acknowledge most problems in their own "apology".... so why do you wonder the community still is pretty vocal about this?
Poll: In which way should MLG try to undo what has been done
Organise WCS-NA qualifiers again. (81)
58%
Let comm play his final match (no extra actions required) (32)
23%
In another way not defined above (20)
14%
None of the above (or not MLG fault) (6)
4%
139 total votes
Your vote: In which way should MLG try to undo what has been done
(Vote): Organise WCS-NA qualifiers again. (Vote): Let comm play his final match (no extra actions required) (Vote): In another way not defined above (Vote): None of the above (or not MLG fault)
Lol @ how counterproductive your first poll is. Some really positive contribution to the community there bud.
A poll, is productive in the way it reflects the opinion of a large group of people. It bundles many thoughts and feelings which it converts to percentages. I think this poll is the most constructive post in this whole god damn topic.
Poll: In which way should MLG try to undo what has been done
Organise WCS-NA qualifiers again. (81)
58%
Let comm play his final match (no extra actions required) (32)
23%
In another way not defined above (20)
14%
None of the above (or not MLG fault) (6)
4%
139 total votes
Your vote: In which way should MLG try to undo what has been done
(Vote): Organise WCS-NA qualifiers again. (Vote): Let comm play his final match (no extra actions required) (Vote): In another way not defined above (Vote): None of the above (or not MLG fault)
Lol @ how counterproductive your first poll is. Some really positive contribution to the community there bud.
its just an opinion poll. counterproductive would be in censoring this kind of activity.
shouldn't you be working on some new defensive schemes rather than spending time posting on this forum during the playoffs man.
Also weird MLG saying they will do better next time, but there is no next PremierLeague Qualifier....
ChallengerQualifier is something totally different, so they fucked over many regions/pros in a once in a lifetime chance for them.
Still not gettingt to the core of the problems and not even admitting them in the apology is a total disaster. If MLG doesnt comepensate these players/teams "this season", i dont see how u could ever support them again in doing online event stuff.
I'm sure all the entities involved are doing their best to put together something so complicated in very little time, they will improve as they always do.
Can't believe all the hate and entitlement over someone else's job that provides you with free content to watch and those calling for people to get fired, you serious? really?
In the end i'm not a player nor an investor into the companies involved and only count for the 1 view as all of you which doesn't give me any goddam right whatsoever to be so mean to people the other side of the internet connection, so feel free to make a bloody game, make bloody tournaments and create companies which employ people since you all obviously better and have greater commitment.
I'm sure that the next seasons will run much smoother than this one. MLG generally comes through and it IS hard to put together something like this on such short notice.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Naruto, I'm one to never arm my pitchfork, even in the threads which clearly call for it, sure it was a complete shitfest but that obviously wasn't their intention, I'd much rather we just move on to the next event and making sure this never happens again.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Some people swallow everything they see and read at face value unwilling (or incapable?) of thinking even one step further on their own. Hacking/cheating accussations are more then enough proof of this behavior in people, not suprising that this "apology" is treated any different by these people.
Passive aggressive much? :/
With your mindset, eSports won't grow for a very long time.
I don't understand why he has to make a public apology to the community ? The community is responsible for this for being up in arms against a 10$ fee to avoid this kind of shit altogether, the responsible thing to do is give some form of compensation to the progamers and an apology to the team managers.
It is totally unacceptable for the Chinese players to not have some other avenue for qualifying. Hell, at this point I'd say add them to the final bracket. Much better we be overly generous in an unfair situation, rather than stingy with qualifications.
I don't get all the comments that link the mistakes at the WCS qualifier to time constraints, Blizzard "rushing" the production, etc.
First, I don't see how MLG worked under any time constraint that was more severe than that of their Korean and European counterparts who - needless to say - didn't mess things up half as badly.
Second, I see no reason to believe that MLG was forced to host WCS. Instead, I imagine that during the planning for the whole WCS, there must have been a dialogue that went something like "Blizzard: Who can organize the WCS qualifiers in April? - MLG: Us."
On April 24 2013 01:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: as a way to compare WCS 2012 with WCS 2013 let's count the number of official apologies
people can make excuses for Blizzard and point fingers at GSL for changing their prize pool... point fingers at ESL for getting the check in times messed up... and point fingers at MLG for this recent debacle..
but the common thread is .. its Blizzard's baby.... its their badly rushed to market WCS ...
and ultimately, a great WCS would help future SC2 sales... and a horrible WCS event won't help future SC2 sales.
so ultimately, Blizzard will pay the highest price for this.. because the big money maker in this entire machinery is selling copies of Starcraft.
keep the excuses for Blizzard coming though.. its entertaining to twist my mind into a pretzel of rationalizations... trying to follow the logic of these great excuses.
Blizzard is a company with that turns yearly profit equal to the GDP of a very small country, it's a multi billion dollar company with thousand of employers.
Some of the "heads" of starcraft have worked on so many legendary games that by now you can likely assume starcraft is more of a passion project for some of them and for blizzard as a whole a 1 million dollar investment in this tournament is not even a noticeable change in the income charts.
If it actually works, aka if the community gets behind it, blizzard might invest a good portion of their marketing budget into this ( budget that for a franchise that pulls in a hundred or more millions annually is likely to be in the dozens of millions )
On April 24 2013 01:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: as a way to compare WCS 2012 with WCS 2013 let's count the number of official apologies
people can make excuses for Blizzard and point fingers at GSL for changing their prize pool... point fingers at ESL for getting the check in times messed up... and point fingers at MLG for this recent debacle..
but the common thread is .. its Blizzard's baby.... its their badly rushed to market WCS ...
and ultimately, a great WCS would help future SC2 sales... and a horrible WCS event won't help future SC2 sales.
so ultimately, Blizzard will pay the highest price for this.. because the big money maker in this entire machinery is selling copies of Starcraft.
keep the excuses for Blizzard coming though.. its entertaining to twist my mind into a pretzel of rationalizations... trying to follow the logic of these great excuses.
Blizzard is a company with that turns yearly profit equal to the GDP of a very small country, it's a multi billion dollar company with thousand of employers.
Some of the "heads" of starcraft have worked on so many legendary games that by now you can likely assume starcraft is more of a passion project for some of them and for blizzard as a whole a 1 million dollar investment in this tournament is not even a noticeable change in the income charts.
If it actually works, aka if the community gets behind it, blizzard might invest a good portion of their marketing budget into this ( budget that for a franchise that pulls in a hundred or more millions annually is likely to be in the dozens of millions )
the problem is they are running around on a PR tour making comments like "we are told SC is bigger than the NHL".
a 1 million dollar (or even 10 million dollar ) investment won't make the WCS better than the NHL's Stanley Cup playoffs... sry guys.
Biggest mistake on their part was not managing SC2 fans expectations. Same thing goes for Blizzard. So much haphazard decision-making, like deciding to go bane-all without scouting your terran opponent.
On April 24 2013 03:40 Poffel wrote: I don't get all the comments that link the mistakes at the WCS qualifier to time constraints, Blizzard "rushing" the production, etc.
First, I don't see how MLG worked under any time constraint that was more severe than that of their Korean and European counterparts who - needless to say - didn't mess things up half as badly.
Second, I see no reason to believe that MLG was forced to host WCS. Instead, I imagine that during the planning for the whole WCS, there must have been a dialogue that went something like "Blizzard: Who can organize the WCS qualifiers in April? - MLG: Us."
A lot of the mistakes people rant about in this thread happened for the EU qualifier as well and Korea didn't have to change much at all so time constraint was not as much of an issue there. MLG may have screwed up more but that doesn't mean the whole thing wasn't partly caused by the rushed production. Several known community figures have expressed similar concerns so I don't see why you seem to think you know better. And of course MLG wasn't forced, and even if they were it wouldn't change the point.
On April 23 2013 21:19 syllogism wrote: Acertos: I already lambasted the decision not to invite top chinese players in the original thread. Chinese fans and the players have every right to be pissed at MLG*. The context of that post is different. It is unfortunate that the game isn't big enough/financially successful enough to have vibrant scenes in every region of the world. That is the reason chinese players are struggling to make a career out of the game right now, not because they MLG messed up these qualifiers. I did not defend MLG or their decisions, other than disqualifying a player for breaking an important rule at any point. The vast majority of the complaints are accurate and on the point. This does mean the community is offering useful, mature criticism and keeping things in context. The post was directed at the poor quality of criticism and the sense of entitlement many members of SC2 communities have even though they are getting all their content for free (obviously people who spend money in the scene are different).
*but at the same time the fans should keep in mind that it's likely that few chinese fans are interested in spending money on MLG events. Why should MLG care about their views?
Don't pretend like you have a lot of knowledge about the Chinese market and community, your statement directly insulted me as a Chinese Starcraft player and spectator.
his statement was just plain racist. even worth he tried to explain the racism with money. haha.
How come his statement is racist? He says that the chinese people don't have much of a sc2 scene and therefore the players have hard time competing. There is no indication of racism there.
MLG shouldn't care about chinese viewers, because they are worth no money.
this statement is so wrong in so many ways.
From financial viewpoint they have no interest in chinese viewers if they are not worth them money. That is how companies work. If he said they shouldn't care about chinese viewers because they are chinese it could be interpreted as racist. However it is not the case and I still see no racism in his original statement.
WCS is sponsored by BLIZZARD. and they explicitly stated they want an OPEN QUALIFIER. the MLG interpretation of OPEN is like total crap. they thought it meant gold and platinum players, when blizzard was obviously aiming for equal rights for different countries.
So? I was discussing your claims of a racist comment.
Why do people keep mentioning the 'fee' as a solution (beside being against the 'terms' of an open WCS). Imagine this scenario: Hyun ask if he can play, gets ok pays $10 Gets DQ'ed Gets revived Gets DQ'ed
And now there are even money involved? (not just for him, but also those knocked out by him)
tl;dr The uproar is still really about the treatment of the chinese, and Comm in particular...
On April 24 2013 03:40 Poffel wrote: I don't get all the comments that link the mistakes at the WCS qualifier to time constraints, Blizzard "rushing" the production, etc.
First, I don't see how MLG worked under any time constraint that was more severe than that of their Korean and European counterparts who - needless to say - didn't mess things up half as badly.
Second, I see no reason to believe that MLG was forced to host WCS. Instead, I imagine that during the planning for the whole WCS, there must have been a dialogue that went something like "Blizzard: Who can organize the WCS qualifiers in April? - MLG: Us."
A lot of the mistakes people rant about in this thread happened for the EU qualifier as well and Korea didn't have to change much at all so time constraint was not as much of an issue there. MLG may have screwed up more but that doesn't mean the whole thing wasn't partly caused by the rushed production. Several known community figures have expressed similar concerns so I don't see why you seem to think you know better. And of course MLG wasn't forced, and even if they were it wouldn't change the point.
Either I was extremely unclear in my post, or we are working under completely different premises (or maybe both). First, I didn't meant to imply that I know better... and, frankly, it takes a lot of effort to take that away from sentences that start with "I don't get", "I don't see how", and "I see no reason" respectively.
That aside, I agree with you that Korea didn't have to change much to accommodate for WCS; but that's hardly the case in Europe. Now - this is where we differ substantially - even though ESL was struggling as well and WCS Europe definitely had its problems, I think their production was leaps and bounds ahead of WCS America. Since ESL and MLG worked under very similar time constraints, I still don't understand how time constraints could be the reason for this difference in production quality.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Naruto, I'm one to never arm my pitchfork, even in the threads which clearly call for it, sure it was a complete shitfest but that obviously wasn't their intention, I'd much rather we just move on to the next event and making sure this never happens again.
On April 23 2013 16:40 Fluffboll wrote:
On April 23 2013 16:36 Type|NarutO wrote:
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Some people swallow everything they see and read at face value unwilling (or incapable?) of thinking even one step further on their own. Hacking/cheating accussations are more then enough proof of this behavior in people, not suprising that this "apology" is treated any different by these people.
Passive aggressive much? :/
With your mindset, eSports won't grow for a very long time.
How? I'm saying don't call for people being fired, people's reputations being ruined or anything like that, stuff like that happening is highly detrimental to the esports scene.
Not sure how my non pitchfork-wielding opinion would inhibit the scene's growth.
On April 24 2013 02:59 Gendo wrote: I'm sure all the entities involved are doing their best to put together something so complicated in very little time, they will improve as they always do.
Can't believe all the hate and entitlement over someone else's job that provides you with free content to watch and those calling for people to get fired, you serious? really?
In the end i'm not a player nor an investor into the companies involved and only count for the 1 view as all of you which doesn't give me any goddam right whatsoever to be so mean to people the other side of the internet connection, so feel free to make a bloody game, make bloody tournaments and create companies which employ people since you all obviously better and have greater commitment.
Or just watch something else and GG.
It's not free content when they get ad revenue from viewers, in addition to the 18-20 dollar fee each participate paid to enter the WCS NA qualifier which was badly run. WIll those people who were hard done by (losing to hackers) be compensated/refunded somehow? The thing about WCS NA is that there is another organisation (NASL) which should've have been included in the plans to broadcast WCS NA. If blizzard or indeed mlg knew that the production value of the WCS NA would suffer due to lack of funds/whatever, then they should have asked NASL to come help out. The community is here to help if they bothered asking.
Unfortunately there have been so many shambolic errors in this WCS NA qualifier it beggers belief!
On April 24 2013 02:59 Gendo wrote: I'm sure all the entities involved are doing their best to put together something so complicated in very little time, they will improve as they always do.
Can't believe all the hate and entitlement over someone else's job that provides you with free content to watch and those calling for people to get fired, you serious? really?
In the end i'm not a player nor an investor into the companies involved and only count for the 1 view as all of you which doesn't give me any goddam right whatsoever to be so mean to people the other side of the internet connection, so feel free to make a bloody game, make bloody tournaments and create companies which employ people since you all obviously better and have greater commitment.
Or just watch something else and GG.
It's not free content when they get ad revenue from viewers, in addition to the 18-20 dollar fee each participate paid to enter the WCS NA qualifier which was badly run. WIll those people who were hard done by (losing to hackers) be compensated/refunded somehow? The thing about WCS NA is that there is another organisation (NASL) which should've have been included in the plans to broadcast WCS NA. If blizzard or indeed mlg knew that the production value of the WCS NA would suffer due to lack of funds/whatever, then they should have asked NASL to come help out. The community is here to help if they bothered asking.
Unfortunately there have been so many shambolic errors in this WCS NA qualifier it beggers belief!
It's free content,as a viewer it costs you nothing to watch. They got rid of the fee because people complained about it.
On April 24 2013 02:59 Gendo wrote: I'm sure all the entities involved are doing their best to put together something so complicated in very little time, they will improve as they always do.
Can't believe all the hate and entitlement over someone else's job that provides you with free content to watch and those calling for people to get fired, you serious? really?
In the end i'm not a player nor an investor into the companies involved and only count for the 1 view as all of you which doesn't give me any goddam right whatsoever to be so mean to people the other side of the internet connection, so feel free to make a bloody game, make bloody tournaments and create companies which employ people since you all obviously better and have greater commitment.
Or just watch something else and GG.
It's not free content when they get ad revenue from viewers, in addition to the 18-20 dollar fee each participate paid to enter the WCS NA qualifier which was badly run. WIll those people who were hard done by (losing to hackers) be compensated/refunded somehow? The thing about WCS NA is that there is another organisation (NASL) which should've have been included in the plans to broadcast WCS NA. If blizzard or indeed mlg knew that the production value of the WCS NA would suffer due to lack of funds/whatever, then they should have asked NASL to come help out. The community is here to help if they bothered asking.
Unfortunately there have been so many shambolic errors in this WCS NA qualifier it beggers belief!
It's free content,as a viewer it costs you nothing to watch. They got rid of the fee because people complained about it.
Regardless, if they had an issue with production values becoming worse due to limiting income, then why not ask blizzard to outsource it to NASL instead who has a plethora of volunteers and can do a very good job as recent history has shown. Why make a complete mess of what was supposed to be a turning point in sc2 history? There is no point saying 'oh it's free, therefore if it's a complete mess it's ok'. No it's not ok because of the manner of his apology and because NASL exists.
On April 24 2013 02:59 Gendo wrote: I'm sure all the entities involved are doing their best to put together something so complicated in very little time, they will improve as they always do.
Can't believe all the hate and entitlement over someone else's job that provides you with free content to watch and those calling for people to get fired, you serious? really?
In the end i'm not a player nor an investor into the companies involved and only count for the 1 view as all of you which doesn't give me any goddam right whatsoever to be so mean to people the other side of the internet connection, so feel free to make a bloody game, make bloody tournaments and create companies which employ people since you all obviously better and have greater commitment.
Or just watch something else and GG.
It's not free content when they get ad revenue from viewers, in addition to the 18-20 dollar fee each participate paid to enter the WCS NA qualifier which was badly run. WIll those people who were hard done by (losing to hackers) be compensated/refunded somehow? The thing about WCS NA is that there is another organisation (NASL) which should've have been included in the plans to broadcast WCS NA. If blizzard or indeed mlg knew that the production value of the WCS NA would suffer due to lack of funds/whatever, then they should have asked NASL to come help out. The community is here to help if they bothered asking.
Unfortunately there have been so many shambolic errors in this WCS NA qualifier it beggers belief!
It's free content,as a viewer it costs you nothing to watch. They got rid of the fee because people complained about it.
Regardless, if they had an issue with production values becoming worse due to limiting income, then why not ask blizzard to outsource it to NASL instead who has a plethora of volunteers and can do a very good job as recent history has shown. Why make a complete mess of what was supposed to be a turning point in sc2 history? There is no point saying 'oh it's free, therefore if it's a complete mess it's ok'. No it's not ok because of the manner of his apology and because NASL exists.
I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is that it's free.
On April 24 2013 02:41 semmeL wrote: Also weird MLG saying they will do better next time, but there is no next PremierLeague Qualifier....
ChallengerQualifier is something totally different, so they fucked over many regions/pros in a once in a lifetime chance for them.
That's right. Hundreds, nay, thousands of people have had their one and only opportunity in their whole entire lives stolen from them from evil people who don't give a damn about eSports or anyone or anything.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Naruto, I'm one to never arm my pitchfork, even in the threads which clearly call for it, sure it was a complete shitfest but that obviously wasn't their intention, I'd much rather we just move on to the next event and making sure this never happens again.
On April 23 2013 16:40 Fluffboll wrote:
On April 23 2013 16:36 Type|NarutO wrote:
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Some people swallow everything they see and read at face value unwilling (or incapable?) of thinking even one step further on their own. Hacking/cheating accussations are more then enough proof of this behavior in people, not suprising that this "apology" is treated any different by these people.
Passive aggressive much? :/
With your mindset, eSports won't grow for a very long time.
How? I'm saying don't call for people being fired, people's reputations being ruined or anything like that, stuff like that happening is highly detrimental to the esports scene.
Not sure how my non pitchfork-wielding opinion would inhibit the scene's growth.
I don't know what or why but somehow it always seems like when MLG has ability to make choices they always start off making the wrong one. I find it very interesting in a way how they manage to constantly make the wrong choice then have to apologize and then fix it later next time. They are very good at fixing there mistakes but its almost like they were so focused on the league play that they overlooked the qualifiers and they were a disaster because of it.
The tweet Sundance posted about the throwing money into a crowd really shows his arrogance. It's like he doesn't think the audience knows what it wants, when it's actually pretty simple. People wanted a better structured qualifier that was consistent in rule enforcement as well as showcased the best of the best who signed up (NOT people that signed up just because they could and end up being in gold/platinum/diamond league). They blame time constraints all they want, but at the end of the day, there were problems that were there because of incompetence of administration, which isn't really a direct consequence of being tight on time. Given more time, they would have probably still made the same exact mistakes come game time. It's because their rules would not have changed and their admins would still be incompetent.
On April 24 2013 01:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: as a way to compare WCS 2012 with WCS 2013 let's count the number of official apologies
people can make excuses for Blizzard and point fingers at GSL for changing their prize pool... point fingers at ESL for getting the check in times messed up... and point fingers at MLG for this recent debacle..
but the common thread is .. its Blizzard's baby.... its their badly rushed to market WCS ...
and ultimately, a great WCS would help future SC2 sales... and a horrible WCS event won't help future SC2 sales.
so ultimately, Blizzard will pay the highest price for this.. because the big money maker in this entire machinery is selling copies of Starcraft.
keep the excuses for Blizzard coming though.. its entertaining to twist my mind into a pretzel of rationalizations... trying to follow the logic of these great excuses.
Blizzard is a company with that turns yearly profit equal to the GDP of a very small country, it's a multi billion dollar company with thousand of employers.
Some of the "heads" of starcraft have worked on so many legendary games that by now you can likely assume starcraft is more of a passion project for some of them and for blizzard as a whole a 1 million dollar investment in this tournament is not even a noticeable change in the income charts.
If it actually works, aka if the community gets behind it, blizzard might invest a good portion of their marketing budget into this ( budget that for a franchise that pulls in a hundred or more millions annually is likely to be in the dozens of millions )
the problem is they are running around on a PR tour making comments like "we are told SC is bigger than the NHL".
a 1 million dollar (or even 10 million dollar ) investment won't make the WCS better than the NHL's Stanley Cup playoffs... sry guys.
Yeah, that was a pretty bone-headed comment by Mr. Itzik Ben-Bassat.
I just want to note for those people who say, "We don't like what MLG does, but we have to support e-sports."
If most people take this attitude, MLG will never improve. People and especially corporations are very much immune to change in thoughts. If there's no huge backlash, this type of stuff will happen again and again. There will always be issues when organizing large events. And it's up to the organizers to minimize the issues through preparation and hard work and ensuring enough man-power to deal with them. Even if MLG fixes the problems of this qualifier, and I'm generously including the problems they're not even addressing, new problems will arise later and there will still be screwups. So you'll never have a well-organized event.
When will the apology for this crappy apology be released? You can tell its a crap apology with a simple text search for words like china, chinese, DQ, disqualified, comm, reinstated, etc. There was intentionally no acknowledgement of the primary issue people had. You're supposed to look at this and see him saying sorry and not realize not only did they not mention the key issues people had but they have no intention of addressing them. With all the threads and comments there is no way they missed the real outrage and misunderstood, they just don't care.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Naruto, I'm one to never arm my pitchfork, even in the threads which clearly call for it, sure it was a complete shitfest but that obviously wasn't their intention, I'd much rather we just move on to the next event and making sure this never happens again.
On April 23 2013 16:40 Fluffboll wrote:
On April 23 2013 16:36 Type|NarutO wrote:
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Some people swallow everything they see and read at face value unwilling (or incapable?) of thinking even one step further on their own. Hacking/cheating accussations are more then enough proof of this behavior in people, not suprising that this "apology" is treated any different by these people.
Passive aggressive much? :/
With your mindset, eSports won't grow for a very long time.
How? I'm saying don't call for people being fired, people's reputations being ruined or anything like that, stuff like that happening is highly detrimental to the esports scene.
Not sure how my non pitchfork-wielding opinion would inhibit the scene's growth.
It's quite simple. You leave failures in charge, you continually see failure as the outcome. I'm not saying we need to get everyone fired, I'm saying you need to use your words and express the communities beliefs. Otherwise, you'll have bad people leading bad organizations.
On April 24 2013 12:26 baubo wrote: I just want to note for those people who say, "We don't like what MLG does, but we have to support e-sports."
If most people take this attitude, MLG will never improve. People and especially corporations are very much immune to change in thoughts.
Completely clueless.
I'll avoid the larger stupidity of your statement as I won't get into politics around here any more but MLG has been changing and trying new things for all the years I've paid attention to them and often end up getting bit by following the advice of the mob, such as removing the token entry fee that lead to players who had no shot of winning anything taking spots from more deserving players.
Good that they know things need to be fixed. I hope in the future they also look into fixing People who do not live in North America taking all the spots from actual participants living in NA.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
What numbers are they using for that anyways? NHL typically gets 1.86 million viewers per telecast... and definitely more people per season game in the audience than any MLG or equivalent...
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
What numbers are they using for that anyways? NHL typically gets 1.86 million viewers per telecast... and definitely more people per season game in the audience than any MLG or equivalent...
deceptive people speak in the passive voice a lot.. so rather than a direct quote ... the Blizz exec says "we were just told that by the numbers...".
"we" "by the numbers" is so vague..
i suspect 1 stream viewer watching Incontrol off-race as Zerg and baneling busting platinum players for shits and giggles... is the equivalent of 1 guy who pays $500+ to sit between the blue lines of a Leaf game while eating his $14 ice cream sandwich as he washes it down with a $6 bottled water.
The Maple Leafs generate more money in 1 home game than Blizzard makes in revenue for an entire Blizzcon weekend.
How is that for "numbers", Mr Itzik Ben-Bassat of Blizzard?
Maybe if Blizzard focused more of their time and attention on selecting their "partners" and setting proper guidelines and strucutres rather than running around making silly PR quotes... maybe the chinese champion would've been given a shot at being part of the WCS.
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Naruto, I'm one to never arm my pitchfork, even in the threads which clearly call for it, sure it was a complete shitfest but that obviously wasn't their intention, I'd much rather we just move on to the next event and making sure this never happens again.
On April 23 2013 16:40 Fluffboll wrote:
On April 23 2013 16:36 Type|NarutO wrote:
On April 23 2013 16:34 Targe wrote: Good apology, he gave the hint that future tournaments will be better run, thank God.
I really find it hard to believe that the community gets out its pitchforks and never forgets about certain stuff, but a qualifier that screws over players which is the most important thing and secondly fucked up the viewers gets away with an apology? Seriously I am in disbelief.
Its not like they made a bad call on a rematch situation. They basically fucked over Comm and other peoples career / chances of winning big money. Jim for example would probably been able to qualify if given the chance, but now he has to wait for a whole year? :X
Some people swallow everything they see and read at face value unwilling (or incapable?) of thinking even one step further on their own. Hacking/cheating accussations are more then enough proof of this behavior in people, not suprising that this "apology" is treated any different by these people.
Passive aggressive much? :/
With your mindset, eSports won't grow for a very long time.
How? I'm saying don't call for people being fired, people's reputations being ruined or anything like that, stuff like that happening is highly detrimental to the esports scene.
Not sure how my non pitchfork-wielding opinion would inhibit the scene's growth.
It's quite simple. You leave failures in charge, you continually see failure as the outcome. I'm not saying we need to get everyone fired, I'm saying you need to use your words and express the communities beliefs. Otherwise, you'll have bad people leading bad organizations.
I didn't and am not saying don't do that, I'm saying don't form a mob and call for people to be fired or try to ruin people's reputations. As you can see several people in this thread have called for people being fired etc. and that can't help but hurt MLG.
On April 24 2013 16:25 dashiz wrote: from this image + Show Spoiler +
it looks like mlg is gonna host another qualifier for code A spots this 27, can anyone confirm this?
they have to move the date because of Dreamhack conflicting. They havent announced the new date and apparently Sundance said they are changing some things for the challenger qualifiers. have to wait and see
On April 24 2013 12:48 Maghetti wrote: When will the apology for this crappy apology be released? You can tell its a crap apology with a simple text search for words like china, chinese, DQ, disqualified, comm, reinstated, etc. There was intentionally no acknowledgement of the primary issue people had. You're supposed to look at this and see him saying sorry and not realize not only did they not mention the key issues people had but they have no intention of addressing them. With all the threads and comments there is no way they missed the real outrage and misunderstood, they just don't care.
Judge from the apology letter, I don't think Sundance even know about these matters like comm huyn hacker or Mia. He just pull off some crappy online apology letter and modified a bit. And the essence of this letter is to make the excuses of unexpectation of over 1000 registers by both them and blizzard.
On April 24 2013 16:25 dashiz wrote: from this image + Show Spoiler +
it looks like mlg is gonna host another qualifier for code A spots this 27, can anyone confirm this?
they have to move the date because of Dreamhack conflicting. They havent announced the new date and apparently Sundance said they are changing some things for the challenger qualifiers. have to wait and see
I damn well hope it's open bracket not 512 bracket.
The only problem I saw is that blizzard said it was area specific and land locked yet there's still Koreans playing in the NA quals from Korea .... ? Yeah that shouldn't happen, how is WCS supposed to highlight the local players from the region when when they all get roflstomped by the Koreans.
But the broadcast itself was fine, so only 512 players got to qualify this weekend ..... so what? It's their first go at this new WCS format so "the community" should really just chill the fuck out and be appreciative for what you do have instead of constantly being whiny bitches every time there's a hiccup in a tournament ... shit happens, that's life.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously?
notice in the quote the BLizzard guy says "we were told" .. that way he is off the hook if he is ever called on it... because he didn't actually say it himself.... he was teh "we" in teh "we were told".
the brutally honest truth is the Toronto Maple Leafs on Saturday night will generate more profit than every SC2 eSports event combined in its 3 year history.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously?
notice in the quote the BLizzard guy says "we were told" .. that way he is off the hook if he is ever called on it... because he didn't actually say it himself.... he was teh "we" in teh "we were told".
the brutally honest truth is the Toronto Maple Leafs on Saturday night will generate more profit than every SC2 eSports event combined in its 3 year history.
I fail to see the relevance of your Leafs analogy .... your comparing professional sports team that has been established for almost a hundred years to build sponsors, marketing plans, merchandising, brand building etc etc.... and probably has the largest fan base out of all the NHL teams, to a sport that really has only taken off in the past 3 years ... that almost makes sense. Well no, it makes no sense at all.
Oh btw if you only think e-sports is 3 years old, then i already know you have no idea what your talking about. E-Sports has existed since the 80's with live Nintendo / arcade game tournaments broadcasted on national tv and started to gain major momentum in the late 90's early 2000's. The only way E-Sports is going to make anything close to what any established professional sports team does is if tournaments charge the same prices that the leafs do for a live game and when MLG tried raising their prices, you were probably first in line to complain about that like the rest of the community. If your going to complain that there needs to be more money in e-sports, be willing to fork it out. If not, you have no right to be complaining.
And what blizzard quote? When i posted this it was in response to what you said to this quote "Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo" which is an honest quote that needs to be heard.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously?
notice in the quote the BLizzard guy says "we were told" .. that way he is off the hook if he is ever called on it... because he didn't actually say it himself.... he was teh "we" in teh "we were told".
the brutally honest truth is the Toronto Maple Leafs on Saturday night will generate more profit than every SC2 eSports event combined in its 3 year history.
I fail to see the relevance of your Leafs analogy .... your comparing professional sports team that has been established for almost a hundred years to build sponsors, marketing plans, merchandising, brand building etc etc.... and probably has the largest fan base out of all the NHL teams, to a sport that really has only taken off in the past 3 years ... that almost makes sense. Well no, it makes no sense at all.
Oh btw E-Sports has existed since the 80's with live Nintendo / arcade game tournaments broadcasted on national tv. The only way E-Sports is going to make anything close to what any established professional sports team does is if tournaments charge the same prices that the leafs do for a live game and when MLG tried raising their prices, you were probably first in line to complain about that like the rest of the community. If your going to complain that there needs to be more money in e-sports, be willing to fork it out. If not, you have no right to be complaining.
And what blizzard quote? When i posted this it was in response to what you said to this quote "Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo" which is an honest quote that needs to be heard.
Blizz is the one that started down the road of comparing the NHL to SC .. not me.
they said .. "by the numbers"... how about we talk dollars instead of "numbers".
3 or 4 posts up you quoted my quote about "SC bigger than NHL" ... somethign about "we need this quote"... or somethin'.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously?
notice in the quote the BLizzard guy says "we were told" .. that way he is off the hook if he is ever called on it... because he didn't actually say it himself.... he was teh "we" in teh "we were told".
the brutally honest truth is the Toronto Maple Leafs on Saturday night will generate more profit than every SC2 eSports event combined in its 3 year history.
I fail to see the relevance of your Leafs analogy .... your comparing professional sports team that has been established for almost a hundred years to build sponsors, marketing plans, merchandising, brand building etc etc.... and probably has the largest fan base out of all the NHL teams, to a sport that really has only taken off in the past 3 years ... that almost makes sense. Well no, it makes no sense at all.
Oh btw E-Sports has existed since the 80's with live Nintendo / arcade game tournaments broadcasted on national tv. The only way E-Sports is going to make anything close to what any established professional sports team does is if tournaments charge the same prices that the leafs do for a live game and when MLG tried raising their prices, you were probably first in line to complain about that like the rest of the community. If your going to complain that there needs to be more money in e-sports, be willing to fork it out. If not, you have no right to be complaining.
And what blizzard quote? When i posted this it was in response to what you said to this quote "Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo" which is an honest quote that needs to be heard.
Blizz is the one that started down the road of comparing the NHL to SC .. not me.
they said .. "by the numbers"... how about we talk dollars instead of "numbers".
3 or 4 posts up you quoted my quote about "SC bigger than NHL" ... somethign about "we need this quote"... or somethin'.
Oh ok yeah i was wondering wtf you were talking about. lol the numbers have to be event viewerships and even then those numbers are extremely unreliable because an nhl game lasts 2-3 hours where as most events are 2-3 days.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
On April 24 2013 12:48 Maghetti wrote: When will the apology for this crappy apology be released? You can tell its a crap apology with a simple text search for words like china, chinese, DQ, disqualified, comm, reinstated, etc. There was intentionally no acknowledgement of the primary issue people had. You're supposed to look at this and see him saying sorry and not realize not only did they not mention the key issues people had but they have no intention of addressing them. With all the threads and comments there is no way they missed the real outrage and misunderstood, they just don't care.
Judge from the apology letter, I don't think Sundance even know about these matters like comm huyn hacker or Mia. He just pull off some crappy online apology letter and modified a bit. And the essence of this letter is to make the excuses of unexpectation of over 1000 registers by both them and blizzard.
He did know about those issues, that is my point, or one of them anyways. He got tweeted at in excess, the LR thread was a wall of complaining about these issues, and there have been many threads about it. To not know about those complaints is a firing offense worthy incompetence. But of course, he did know, but doesn't plan to do anything about them so intentionally left out the key complaints and hoped people wouldn't notice.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and got disqualified and got left out of the tournament to "fucking relax."
So their careers are "ruined for the year" because they were not given the chance to qualify to the current premier league? So, what you're saying is that, if Blizzard hadn't come up with the WCS, their careers for the year would've been ruined anyway? 'Cause the WCS, as it is this year, is something completely new, and their chances of participating in, and winning, other non-WCS tournaments are still the same as they were before this qualifier. So please explain, how can not allowing you to qualify to a single tournament that that did not even exist before this year, ruin your carreer for the year? How can it "condemn your to a massive deficit" if you can still play in all the other tournaments you were gonna play in anyway?
The only way I can see any of that happening is if you were already doing really bad, and qualifying to premier league was your only chance of not having to retire, but in that case you were screwed anyway if there wasn't any WCS. So, at the very worst, they didn't save some careers, but you can't say they "condemned" anyone.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and got disqualified and got left out of the tournament to "fucking relax."
So their careers are "ruined for the year" because they were not given the chance to qualify to the current premier league? So, what you're saying is that, if Blizzard hadn't come up with the WCS, their careers for the year would've been ruined anyway? 'Cause the WCS, as it is this year, is something completely new, and their chances of participating in, and winning, other non-WCS tournaments are still the same as they were before this qualifier. So please explain, how can not allowing you to qualify to a single tournament that that did not even exist before this year, ruin your carreer for the year? How can it "condemn your to a massive deficit" if you can still play in all the other tournaments you were gonna play in anyway?
The only way I can see any of that happening is if you were already doing really bad, and qualifying to premier league was your only chance of not having to retire, but in that case you were screwed anyway if there wasn't any WCS. So, at the very worst, they didn't save some careers, but you can't say they "condemned" anyone.
Lol you can't even follow the posts properly, this had nothing to do with Blizzard! All the complained are directed towards MLG who oragnised the tournament poorly, and used incompetent admins who made poor decision. If MLG ran anything close to the quality ESL provided, this shitstorm wouldn't be here. ESL didn't screw players over, and nor did GSL. They are supposed to be the same tournament for each of the 3 regions, but one of them couldn't make it to the standards of the other two - this is what's wrong.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and got disqualified and got left out of the tournament to "fucking relax."
So their careers are "ruined for the year" because they were not given the chance to qualify to the current premier league? So, what you're saying is that, if Blizzard hadn't come up with the WCS, their careers for the year would've been ruined anyway? 'Cause the WCS, as it is this year, is something completely new, and their chances of participating in, and winning, other non-WCS tournaments are still the same as they were before this qualifier. So please explain, how can not allowing you to qualify to a single tournament that that did not even exist before this year, ruin your carreer for the year? How can it "condemn your to a massive deficit" if you can still play in all the other tournaments you were gonna play in anyway?
The only way I can see any of that happening is if you were already doing really bad, and qualifying to premier league was your only chance of not having to retire, but in that case you were screwed anyway if there wasn't any WCS. So, at the very worst, they didn't save some careers, but you can't say they "condemned" anyone.
Lol you can't even follow the posts properly, this had nothing to do with Blizzard! All the complained are directed towards MLG who oragnised the tournament poorly, and used incompetent admins who made poor decision. If MLG ran anything close to the quality ESL provided, this shitstorm wouldn't be here. ESL didn't screw players over, and nor did GSL. They are supposed to be the same tournament for each of the 3 regions, but one of them couldn't make it to the standards of the other two - this is what's wrong.
Ok, I can agree with that. MLG did not do as good of a job as GOM and ESL did. MLG has to catch up to the quality of the other regions's tournaments, and untill they do so they're gonna get singled out. But to say that they ruined people's careers and stuff, that's just being dumb.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
It's not financially viable for Chinese players to fly to dreamhack, and even tier-1 non WCS tournaments will get you less than half of the points that a premier league tournament would give. It's still possible to come back from such a deficit, it's just much, much harder. The competition is difficult enough as it is, missing out on one of the three seasons will probably kill your chances at making it to the grand finals unless you're a top tier Korean.
Still don't know why it was just 1 qualifier and not only that but also capped at 512 players. "They were surprised..." Were they not aware of how many played/registered in the eu qualifiers
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
It's not financially viable for Chinese players to fly to dreamhack, and even tier-1 non WCS tournaments will get you less than half of the points that a premier league tournament would give. It's still possible to come back from such a deficit, it's just much, much harder. The competition is difficult enough as it is, missing out on one of the three seasons will probably kill your chances at making it to the grand finals unless you're a top tier Korean.
They have those SEA tournaments that are sponsored by Blizzard ... Challenger series or something like that, that's more viable. Altho not ideal there are still options, either way that's a blizzard issue not an MLG issue so not sure what relevance it has to this tread :/
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
Hey idoit, players who are in Premier also get those points in other tournaments, so you still have to catch up. and WCS does not sponsor for any of them. It's as bad as people complain, and you are just trying to pretend it's not. If you HAVE to go play other tournaments for mistake that is not your fault, you can just "fucking relax?"
MLG has shown mistakes, after mistakes, after mistakes in this quailifier. They even have examples to learn from. ESL did it the weekend before and they didn't fuck up. It's not okay to just wave your hand and say "nevermind." This is why people complain so much. Issuing a 5min speech is not fixing any problems. If they're not capable of organizing a proper online tournament then they don't deserve to be doing it. Expectations are set so high because no other organization is having the problems MLG have. If everybody else in the world can do it, so can you. If you can't then let someone else who can do it. Saying "let's pretend nothing happended during this qualifier" like you are doing is more insulting than all the complaining, and does not solve any problems.
On April 24 2013 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
It's not financially viable for Chinese players to fly to dreamhack, and even tier-1 non WCS tournaments will get you less than half of the points that a premier league tournament would give. It's still possible to come back from such a deficit, it's just much, much harder. The competition is difficult enough as it is, missing out on one of the three seasons will probably kill your chances at making it to the grand finals unless you're a top tier Korean.
They have those SEA tournaments that are sponsored by Blizzard ... Challenger series or something like that, that's more viable. Altho not ideal there are still options, either way that's a blizzard issue not an MLG issue so not sure what relevance it has to this tread :/
Name 1 tournament in SEA that blizzard sponsors? There aren't any.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
Hey idoit, players who are in Premier also get those points in other tournaments, so you still have to catch up. and WCS does not sponsor for any of them. It's as bad as people complain, and you are just trying to pretend it's not. If you HAVE to go play other tournaments for mistake that is not your fault, you can just "fucking relax?"
MLG has shown mistakes, after mistakes, after mistakes in this quailifier. They even have examples to learn from. ESL did it the weekend before and they didn't fuck up. It's not okay to just wave your hand and say "nevermind." This is why people complain so much. Issuing a 5min speech is not fixing any problems. If they're not capable of organizing a proper online tournament then they don't deserve to be doing it. Expectations are set so high because no other organization is having the problems MLG have. If everybody else in the world can do it, so can you. If you can't then let someone else who can do it. Saying "let's pretend nothing happended during this qualifier" like you are doing is more insulting than all the complaining, and does not solve any problems.
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
It's not financially viable for Chinese players to fly to dreamhack, and even tier-1 non WCS tournaments will get you less than half of the points that a premier league tournament would give. It's still possible to come back from such a deficit, it's just much, much harder. The competition is difficult enough as it is, missing out on one of the three seasons will probably kill your chances at making it to the grand finals unless you're a top tier Korean.
They have those SEA tournaments that are sponsored by Blizzard ... Challenger series or something like that, that's more viable. Altho not ideal there are still options, either way that's a blizzard issue not an MLG issue so not sure what relevance it has to this tread :/
Name 1 tournament in SEA that blizzard sponsors? There aren't any.
China isn't on that list, and at best that looks to be a tier 2 tournament. Getting 1st place in that is worth fewer points than placing 16th at a season's final.
On April 24 2013 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
Hey idoit, players who are in Premier also get those points in other tournaments, so you still have to catch up. and WCS does not sponsor for any of them. It's as bad as people complain, and you are just trying to pretend it's not. If you HAVE to go play other tournaments for mistake that is not your fault, you can just "fucking relax?"
MLG has shown mistakes, after mistakes, after mistakes in this quailifier. They even have examples to learn from. ESL did it the weekend before and they didn't fuck up. It's not okay to just wave your hand and say "nevermind." This is why people complain so much. Issuing a 5min speech is not fixing any problems. If they're not capable of organizing a proper online tournament then they don't deserve to be doing it. Expectations are set so high because no other organization is having the problems MLG have. If everybody else in the world can do it, so can you. If you can't then let someone else who can do it. Saying "let's pretend nothing happended during this qualifier" like you are doing is more insulting than all the complaining, and does not solve any problems.
On April 25 2013 02:31 ProBot wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:27 Dracid wrote:
On April 25 2013 01:56 ProBot wrote:
On April 25 2013 00:56 HereBeDragons wrote:
On April 25 2013 00:02 ProBot wrote:
On April 24 2013 22:58 HereBeDragons wrote:
On April 24 2013 21:33 ProBot wrote:
On April 24 2013 21:26 nihlon wrote: [quote] Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
It's not financially viable for Chinese players to fly to dreamhack, and even tier-1 non WCS tournaments will get you less than half of the points that a premier league tournament would give. It's still possible to come back from such a deficit, it's just much, much harder. The competition is difficult enough as it is, missing out on one of the three seasons will probably kill your chances at making it to the grand finals unless you're a top tier Korean.
They have those SEA tournaments that are sponsored by Blizzard ... Challenger series or something like that, that's more viable. Altho not ideal there are still options, either way that's a blizzard issue not an MLG issue so not sure what relevance it has to this tread :/
Name 1 tournament in SEA that blizzard sponsors? There aren't any.
And North American pros who got cut off? You gonna ask Root to fly Leiya to SEA as well? And Chinese players? Just fly 4000km to from China to Singapore to compete in a smaller one-off tourment that offers less points? There is no way you can catch up if you are automatically disqualified from the main WCS event already. How does that even compensate?
Plus from that link, you have to be from either Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand or Philippines to even participate!
And who's the one flaming calling people douchebags and telling people to "fucking relax"?
On April 24 2013 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
Hey idoit, players who are in Premier also get those points in other tournaments, so you still have to catch up. and WCS does not sponsor for any of them. It's as bad as people complain, and you are just trying to pretend it's not. If you HAVE to go play other tournaments for mistake that is not your fault, you can just "fucking relax?"
MLG has shown mistakes, after mistakes, after mistakes in this quailifier. They even have examples to learn from. ESL did it the weekend before and they didn't fuck up. It's not okay to just wave your hand and say "nevermind." This is why people complain so much. Issuing a 5min speech is not fixing any problems. If they're not capable of organizing a proper online tournament then they don't deserve to be doing it. Expectations are set so high because no other organization is having the problems MLG have. If everybody else in the world can do it, so can you. If you can't then let someone else who can do it. Saying "let's pretend nothing happended during this qualifier" like you are doing is more insulting than all the complaining, and does not solve any problems.
On April 25 2013 02:31 ProBot wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:27 Dracid wrote:
On April 25 2013 01:56 ProBot wrote:
On April 25 2013 00:56 HereBeDragons wrote:
On April 25 2013 00:02 ProBot wrote:
On April 24 2013 22:58 HereBeDragons wrote:
On April 24 2013 21:33 ProBot wrote:
On April 24 2013 21:26 nihlon wrote: [quote] Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
It's not financially viable for Chinese players to fly to dreamhack, and even tier-1 non WCS tournaments will get you less than half of the points that a premier league tournament would give. It's still possible to come back from such a deficit, it's just much, much harder. The competition is difficult enough as it is, missing out on one of the three seasons will probably kill your chances at making it to the grand finals unless you're a top tier Korean.
They have those SEA tournaments that are sponsored by Blizzard ... Challenger series or something like that, that's more viable. Altho not ideal there are still options, either way that's a blizzard issue not an MLG issue so not sure what relevance it has to this tread :/
Name 1 tournament in SEA that blizzard sponsors? There aren't any.
Do you read your sources or just cite them? Good thing players who were excluded can compete in the Vengeance Cup when they aren't any of the nationalities included there. Hint, when your tournament page links to a Facebook page and a forum post that has StarJeweled next to SC2, it's probably not worth anything and just Blizzard tossing you a bone.
On April 24 2013 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
Hey idoit, players who are in Premier also get those points in other tournaments, so you still have to catch up. and WCS does not sponsor for any of them. It's as bad as people complain, and you are just trying to pretend it's not. If you HAVE to go play other tournaments for mistake that is not your fault, you can just "fucking relax?"
MLG has shown mistakes, after mistakes, after mistakes in this quailifier. They even have examples to learn from. ESL did it the weekend before and they didn't fuck up. It's not okay to just wave your hand and say "nevermind." This is why people complain so much. Issuing a 5min speech is not fixing any problems. If they're not capable of organizing a proper online tournament then they don't deserve to be doing it. Expectations are set so high because no other organization is having the problems MLG have. If everybody else in the world can do it, so can you. If you can't then let someone else who can do it. Saying "let's pretend nothing happended during this qualifier" like you are doing is more insulting than all the complaining, and does not solve any problems.
On April 25 2013 02:31 ProBot wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:27 Dracid wrote:
On April 25 2013 01:56 ProBot wrote:
On April 25 2013 00:56 HereBeDragons wrote:
On April 25 2013 00:02 ProBot wrote:
On April 24 2013 22:58 HereBeDragons wrote:
On April 24 2013 21:33 ProBot wrote:
On April 24 2013 21:26 nihlon wrote: [quote] Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
It's not financially viable for Chinese players to fly to dreamhack, and even tier-1 non WCS tournaments will get you less than half of the points that a premier league tournament would give. It's still possible to come back from such a deficit, it's just much, much harder. The competition is difficult enough as it is, missing out on one of the three seasons will probably kill your chances at making it to the grand finals unless you're a top tier Korean.
They have those SEA tournaments that are sponsored by Blizzard ... Challenger series or something like that, that's more viable. Altho not ideal there are still options, either way that's a blizzard issue not an MLG issue so not sure what relevance it has to this tread :/
Name 1 tournament in SEA that blizzard sponsors? There aren't any.
On April 25 2013 02:30 .kv wrote: Still don't know why it was just 1 qualifier and not only that but also capped at 512 players. "They were surprised..." Were they not aware of how many played/registered in the eu qualifiers
Yeah, it's as if they didn't watch a single ESL qualifier...
On April 24 2013 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and got disqualified and got left out of the tournament to "fucking relax."
So their careers are "ruined for the year" because they were not given the chance to qualify to the current premier league? So, what you're saying is that, if Blizzard hadn't come up with the WCS, their careers for the year would've been ruined anyway? 'Cause the WCS, as it is this year, is something completely new, and their chances of participating in, and winning, other non-WCS tournaments are still the same as they were before this qualifier. So please explain, how can not allowing you to qualify to a single tournament that that did not even exist before this year, ruin your carreer for the year? How can it "condemn your to a massive deficit" if you can still play in all the other tournaments you were gonna play in anyway?
The only way I can see any of that happening is if you were already doing really bad, and qualifying to premier league was your only chance of not having to retire, but in that case you were screwed anyway if there wasn't any WCS. So, at the very worst, they didn't save some careers, but you can't say they "condemned" anyone.
Lol you can't even follow the posts properly, this had nothing to do with Blizzard! All the complained are directed towards MLG who oragnised the tournament poorly, and used incompetent admins who made poor decision. If MLG ran anything close to the quality ESL provided, this shitstorm wouldn't be here. ESL didn't screw players over, and nor did GSL. They are supposed to be the same tournament for each of the 3 regions, but one of them couldn't make it to the standards of the other two - this is what's wrong.
Ok, I can agree with that. MLG did not do as good of a job as GOM and ESL did. MLG has to catch up to the quality of the other regions's tournaments, and untill they do so they're gonna get singled out. But to say that they ruined people's careers and stuff, that's just being dumb.
How is disqualifying a LB finalist not dumb? How is having championship contenders not allowed to participate in the qualifiers not dumb? How is having hackers in your tournament not dumb? These players lost their opportunity because someone else cannot do their job properly - that IS ruining people's career.
On April 24 2013 03:55 DueSs wrote: Starcraft 2 community: where the expectations are higher than Snoop Dog at Bonaroo.
it is up to Blizzard to manage expectations.. quotes like this do not help...
Itzik Ben-Bassat: "By numbers, StarCraft is bigger than the NHL"
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
I dont know how u can excuse MLG for not inform themselves about the workload they would face. There were many Organisations that couldve been asked to gather information about Online Tournaments (ESL, TL, or others who ran big online Tournaments). Also as others already stated ESL ran the EU-Qualifier the weekend before MLG. Also no communication from MLG to ask the ESL-Staff what troubles they should expect to run into. It just seems, after the community was angry at the FEE-entry and MLG had to forget it about it, that they didnt really cared much about their own qualifier anymore and just tried to make profit with it and not researching the WCS Regions (Sea/China). Not putting up a system that prefers GM > Masters > ..., also seems to be done only to reduce the workload.
If u bring ur car to a workshop and they just pretend to have repaired something or let u pay for more things that not even were broken, u would not go to them again and say "hey maybe they improve next time, they said they are sorry".
I really think they owe the players who were eliminated by the hacker a second chance. Maybe they should make a min tournament with those players, the Chines players and Byun(?).
Actually quotes like that are exactly what the community needs to hear because it's brutally honest, people are bitching about a FREE TOURNAMENT, seriously? MLG did they best they could with the time they had, the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea, and the WCS it does feel rushed by Blizzard but at least they're trying. 90% of you sound like spoiled brats on Christmas that asked for a ps3 but got a 360, grow up.
Eh, if that happened some of the best tournaments we'd have in sc2 wouldn't have happened. For the WCS it makes sense to have such a limitation but certainly not for all tournaments.
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
Hey idoit, players who are in Premier also get those points in other tournaments, so you still have to catch up. and WCS does not sponsor for any of them. It's as bad as people complain, and you are just trying to pretend it's not. If you HAVE to go play other tournaments for mistake that is not your fault, you can just "fucking relax?"
MLG has shown mistakes, after mistakes, after mistakes in this quailifier. They even have examples to learn from. ESL did it the weekend before and they didn't fuck up. It's not okay to just wave your hand and say "nevermind." This is why people complain so much. Issuing a 5min speech is not fixing any problems. If they're not capable of organizing a proper online tournament then they don't deserve to be doing it. Expectations are set so high because no other organization is having the problems MLG have. If everybody else in the world can do it, so can you. If you can't then let someone else who can do it. Saying "let's pretend nothing happended during this qualifier" like you are doing is more insulting than all the complaining, and does not solve any problems.
On April 25 2013 02:31 ProBot wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:27 Dracid wrote:
On April 25 2013 01:56 ProBot wrote:
On April 25 2013 00:56 HereBeDragons wrote:
On April 25 2013 00:02 ProBot wrote:
On April 24 2013 22:58 HereBeDragons wrote:
On April 24 2013 21:33 ProBot wrote: [quote]
And i absolutely agree that's why i said "the only major issue with the WCS is that Koreans shouldn't be playing in tournaments outside of Korea FROM Korea" :D
"Only major issue"? How about the part where many players, including NA players like Root's Puck, SEA players, Chinese players, all got their career screwed up for the ENTIRE YEAR because they missed out a chance to gain points in the first season? What about disqualifying a legitimate contender in the final round of the brackets? What about having hackers in your tournament? What about resurrecting Hyun to play after he already got disqualified? Wtf are those, minor issues?
Not enough time to prepare? ESL did their tournament before MLG, and they did a good job at it. They saw the size of demands, they saw potential problems. If you didn't have enough time how come ESL did? It's not a valid excuse to cover up for incompetent admins and broken websites systems. If anything, they should be fixing the mistakes ESL made and improve upon it, instead they just turned everything upside down.
I made more than one post ... try reading them. Career's ruined for an entire year? Please, most of them are only missing out on $500 .. and there are other tournaments throughout the year. It's a shitty buzz but not the end of the world and it's shit that'll be fixed over time. Are you losing out on money? Probably not, they can try to re-qualify in 3 months and go from there, so again from a community standpoint fucking relax.
There are only 3 seasons for the entire year, if you miss 1/3 of the potential points, good luck trying to catch up to people who made it into the Premier league during the first season. People who made it to Premier have more chances to stay in Premier than people who had to go through Challenger first. MLG condemned them to a massive deficit during the whole year because they made stupid decisions and poor planning after already having a good example to copy from. This is not "just a shitty buzz," you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you can go tell people who lost to hackers and those who got disqualified and those who weren't allowed to participate to "fucking relax."
Hey genius u can accumulate points from WCS sponsored events at tournaments like NASL and Dreamhack ... so yeah ... fucking relax. Again I'm not saying it doesn't suck but by no stretch of the imagination is it nearly as bad as people are letting on. One of the things MLG is good at is improving on their fuck ups, this community is mostly made up of people that like to bitch for the sake of bitching. There's no appreciation for the events we have now and expectations set BY THE COMMUNITY so fucking high that if they're not met on the first go, out comes the pitch forks. GSL and ESL have been running tournaments with a similar or same format longer than MLG who do their own thing once every couple months ... they're going to be a little behind the ball than the other two. So a little bit of understanding and patience from the community instead of the regular douchebaggery would probably help the situation a lot more than the constant 12 year old nagging that usually goes on around here.
It's not financially viable for Chinese players to fly to dreamhack, and even tier-1 non WCS tournaments will get you less than half of the points that a premier league tournament would give. It's still possible to come back from such a deficit, it's just much, much harder. The competition is difficult enough as it is, missing out on one of the three seasons will probably kill your chances at making it to the grand finals unless you're a top tier Korean.
They have those SEA tournaments that are sponsored by Blizzard ... Challenger series or something like that, that's more viable. Altho not ideal there are still options, either way that's a blizzard issue not an MLG issue so not sure what relevance it has to this tread :/
Name 1 tournament in SEA that blizzard sponsors? There aren't any.
Unless you think Chinese are from Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand or Philippines, research isn't your thing either.
Wholly fuck read the previous posts before you open your pie hole, Buddy said the chinese cats are fucked, yeah they are but blizzard is hosting the above mini tournaments until they sort something out for SEA for WCS, god some of you are thick.
Still some players get better treatment to be seeded into the Invite-Only Qualifier (no one knows how they determine these), and the rest has to play through 2 Qualifiers (first Open 512bracket -> 8 spots into Invite-Only -> 16 who get into Challenger). Atleast GM-Masters regulation and some improvement. Would've loved to see Chinese/screwed over players to get seeded into the Invite-Only Qualifier but that's maybe bit too much and if they are skilled enough they can still make it. It's atleast a step in the right direction even if the GM-Masters regulation comes a bit late and could've been also implemented for the PremierLeague Qualifier.
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play the entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeded them into challanger league, thats what i think.
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
It's better than nothing is it not?
It is!
But still why do have some players get through 2 Qualfiers to get into Challenger and some only through 1 Qualifier now ? (OpenQualifier only gets u 8 spots for the Invite-Only ChallengerQualifier)
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
It's better than nothing is it not?
Better than nothing != a good way to fix the problem. THey could have sended them 10$. Would it fix the problem? No. Is it better than nothing? Well yeah.
It's not equal to the dmg done by how bad the PremierLeague Qualifier was run. But they can't do much about it now without damaging all parties involved in the first Qualifier that got to play.
MLG is still at fault for not planning this whole WCS NA good enough. They are still at fault for getting 0 information about other WCS Regions from last Year and the undermanned admin staff or not able to handle things accordingly.
But they also could've just done nothing now and waited for Season2.
What i still don't like is this double Qualifier for Challenger now. Who are the players that start already in the InviteOnly Challenger Qualifier, if based on the PremierLeague Qualifier it is still very questionable.
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
It's better than nothing is it not?
Better than nothing != a good way to fix the problem. THey could have sended them 10$. Would it fix the problem? No. Is it better than nothing? Well yeah.
Zomg they only get to qualify for challenger series and not premier they got so screwed blah blah blah. Dude use your head. Whats done is done and they're doing the best they can to fix shit so there's way and hell this shit is going to happen for the next season. What are they supposed to do re-start the quals? Yeah that makes a ton of sense. "hey dudes well u did great in your qualifiers but the community is really crusty and mad that we made a mistake so your going to have to replay your matches. Sorry bros ..." You really need to clean the sand out of your ovaries. Or just fucking relax :D
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
It's better than nothing is it not?
Better than nothing != a good way to fix the problem. THey could have sended them 10$. Would it fix the problem? No. Is it better than nothing? Well yeah.
Zomg they only get to qualify for challenger series and not premier they got so screwed blah blah blah. Dude use your head. Whats done is done and they're doing the best they can to fix shit so there's way and hell this shit is going to happen for the next season. What are they supposed to do re-start the quals? Yeah that makes a ton of sense. "hey dudes well u did great in your qualifiers but the community is really crusty and mad that we made a mistake so your going to have to replay your matches. Sorry bros ..." You really need to clean the sand out of your ovaries. Or just fucking relax :D
Why do you always tell us to "just relax"? If you get screwed you dont just relax. Its not about using our pitchforks and burn sundance on a pile of wood. For me the problem is that MLG apparently doesnt give a damn. They are like "whatever, let them try to qualifier for challanger league " - which they technicly could have just registered for. They didnt get anything. And how about you use your head, maybe for the first time in one of your posts. You seem not to care about the players who got screwed, maybe you dont like them or you just want to see code s lvl koreans, but for me its just a pity how the entire process eih them was handled by MLG.. Edit: i dont want them to restart the entire qualifier, that would be the worst thing they could ever do
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
It's better than nothing is it not?
Better than nothing != a good way to fix the problem. THey could have sended them 10$. Would it fix the problem? No. Is it better than nothing? Well yeah.
Just as long as it isn't $5 because Sundance is an asshole and MLG and Blizzard don't care about StarCraft or the players or the fans or anything or anyone.
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
It's better than nothing is it not?
Better than nothing != a good way to fix the problem. THey could have sended them 10$. Would it fix the problem? No. Is it better than nothing? Well yeah.
Just as long as it isn't $5 because Sundance is an asshole and MLG and Blizzard don't care about StarCraft or the players or the fans or anything or anyone.
Im not sur if i understand your post correctly. I wasnt trying to imply that every player should have gotten 10$. It was just a way to tell that better thsn nothing doesnt mean he result is good. MLG has been hosting fantastic tournaments over the last years, but i dont know what happened with the qualifiers. Everything just fell appart. Im not saying MLG doesnt care about it, it just FEELS this way when you get a half arsed appologie and no good plan to fix the issues :/
I really wish they would have mentioned something about Chinese players. Blizzard has tried to develop SC2 in China for years, and I think they could have done a lot more.
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
It's better than nothing is it not?
Better than nothing != a good way to fix the problem. THey could have sended them 10$. Would it fix the problem? No. Is it better than nothing? Well yeah.
Zomg they only get to qualify for challenger series and not premier they got so screwed blah blah blah. Dude use your head. Whats done is done and they're doing the best they can to fix shit so there's way and hell this shit is going to happen for the next season. What are they supposed to do re-start the quals? Yeah that makes a ton of sense. "hey dudes well u did great in your qualifiers but the community is really crusty and mad that we made a mistake so your going to have to replay your matches. Sorry bros ..." You really need to clean the sand out of your ovaries. Or just fucking relax :D
Why do you always tell us to "just relax"? If you get screwed you dont just relax. Its not about using our pitchforks and burn sundance on a pile of wood. For me the problem is that MLG apparently doesnt give a damn. They are like "whatever, let them try to qualifier for challanger league " - which they technicly could have just registered for. They didnt get anything. And how about you use your head, maybe for the first time in one of your posts. You seem not to care about the players who got screwed, maybe you dont like them or you just want to see code s lvl koreans, but for me its just a pity how the entire process eih them was handled by MLG.. Edit: i dont want them to restart the entire qualifier, that would be the worst thing they could ever do
It's not that i don't care, it's just what are they supposed to do about it now? Why stress and make a big fuss out of something that's out of your control? Like i said before it is a shitty buzz, but the fact is it's done and over with and like everything else in life you take what you can from the mistakes you make, learn from them, and improve off of that. It's not like they did this shit just to piss people off, kind of counter-productive to being a business right? Altho placement into the challenger series quals isn't going to replace playing in the premier quals looking at it now what else are they supposed to do? At least they realized and admitted to making the mistakes and are trying to fix it the best they can. Reality of it is we just don't know what they can do to fix it, it's easy to say have a mini tourney with the people that should have made it and have add a couple extra people to the premier bracket or what not. But i'm sure whatever they do needs to go through Blizzard first and whatever else from there.
I'm not even an MLG fanboy but it's getting to the point where every week people are bitching about something, and it's really getting old. And I've seen the whole e-sport thing grow and what we have now for content, tournaments, and money is light years ahead of what it was 5..... 10 ... 15 years ago, but there's zero respect or appreciation for that or the people putting their lives and families aside to run these events that we all love yet at the first sign of trouble get shit on by everyone and their dog.
I'm telling people to relax because what's being a bitch about it now really going to fix? It's not like they need more people telling them they fucked up because they already know that. Altho not ideal they're making the best out what they have, yeah players might have to work a little harder to get to premier through the challenger league or what not but at least they still have an opportunity to compete, make some money and a name for themselves.
On April 25 2013 07:02 semmeL wrote: It's not equal to the dmg done by how bad the PremierLeague Qualifier was run. But they can't do much about it now without damaging all parties involved in the first Qualifier that got to play.
They could make Apocalypse play for his spot instead of giving him a walk-over Comm.
Wow MLG already fixing their mistakes .... NO WAY, wow i didn't see that coming at all .... oh ... wait. Relax.
Yeah because being invited to a lower level qualifier is totally the same as playing in the final rounds of the premier qualifier. Wasnt 1 chinese player 1 game away from qualifying for premier legue? I guess having to play he entire challanger qualifier is really the same!
They should have seeses them into challanger, thats what i think.
It's better than nothing is it not?
Better than nothing != a good way to fix the problem. THey could have sended them 10$. Would it fix the problem? No. Is it better than nothing? Well yeah.
Zomg they only get to qualify for challenger series and not premier they got so screwed blah blah blah. Dude use your head. Whats done is done and they're doing the best they can to fix shit so there's way and hell this shit is going to happen for the next season. What are they supposed to do re-start the quals? Yeah that makes a ton of sense. "hey dudes well u did great in your qualifiers but the community is really crusty and mad that we made a mistake so your going to have to replay your matches. Sorry bros ..." You really need to clean the sand out of your ovaries. Or just fucking relax :D
Why do you always tell us to "just relax"? If you get screwed you dont just relax. Its not about using our pitchforks and burn sundance on a pile of wood. For me the problem is that MLG apparently doesnt give a damn. They are like "whatever, let them try to qualifier for challanger league " - which they technicly could have just registered for. They didnt get anything. And how about you use your head, maybe for the first time in one of your posts. You seem not to care about the players who got screwed, maybe you dont like them or you just want to see code s lvl koreans, but for me its just a pity how the entire process eih them was handled by MLG.. Edit: i dont want them to restart the entire qualifier, that would be the worst thing they could ever do
It's not that i don't care, it's just what are they supposed to do about it now? Why stress and make a big fuss out of something that's out of your control? Like i said before it is a shitty buzz, but the fact is it's done and over with and like everything else in life you take what you can from the mistakes you make, learn from them, and improve off of that. It's not like they did this shit just to piss people off, kind of counter-productive to being a business right? Altho placement into the challenger series quals isn't going to replace playing in the premier quals looking at it now what else are they supposed to do? At least they realized and admitted to making the mistakes and are trying to fix it the best they can. Reality of it is we just don't know what they can do to fix it, it's easy to say have a mini tourney with the people that should have made it and have add a couple extra people to the premier bracket or what not. But i'm sure whatever they do needs to go through Blizzard first and whatever else from there.
I'm not even an MLG fanboy but it's getting to the point where every week people are bitching about something, and it's really getting old. And I've seen the whole e-sport thing grow and what we have now for content, tournaments, and money is light years ahead of what it was 5..... 10 ... 15 years ago, but there's zero respect or appreciation for that or the people putting their lives and families aside to run these events that we all love yet at the first sign of trouble get shit on by everyone and their dog.
I'm telling people to relax because what's being a bitch about it now really going to fix? It's not like they need more people telling them they fucked up because they already know that. Altho not ideal they're making the best out what they have, yeah players might have to work a little harder to get to premier through the challenger league or what not but at least they still have an opportunity to compete, make some money and a name for themselves.
Well if you tell it this way, i kinda agree with you. Didnt really see what your real intenions were with all this short statements You are right, fixing the problem has got out of hand. There is not much you can do, but i would have liked a real appologie or as i said before, that some of the ppl who got really screwed get a bonus in the qualifiers. I mean, they are inviting them into an open bracket.. they could have played it anyway? I dont think that people have no respect for blizzard,MLG,ESL or whatever organization. But if you deliver a broken product, you get critizized. Thats part of the business and helps them making their product better. Well some cirtics went over the top + in a RTS game like Starcraft there will always be people who hate on the developers because they loose 3 games in a row.
To summarize, good points by you, i dont really like the "fucking relax" but if you explain it to me like you did in your post, i may have understood it more harsh than you mean it. English is not my native language as you can see from my posts^^
EPT
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