On April 03 2013 16:21 blackone wrote: So we have less GSL *and* less OSL? And the GSL schedule for this year doesn't count? Or are they going to have leagues as planned, just not all of them are going to double as WCS qualifiers?
My initial thought was that GSL/OSL would continue to run their own tourney's as is, but with certain ones doubling as the WCS qualifiers as you said.
i.e
Season 1 OSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS) Season 1 GSL (also WCS qualifier)
Season 2 OSL (also WCS qualifier) Season 2 GSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS)
Season 3 OSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS) Season 3 GSL (also WCS qualifier)
.. and so on...
Whether this is true is not clear right now, I suppose we'll have to wait for Tastosis to clarify for us.
On April 03 2013 16:21 blackone wrote: So we have less GSL *and* less OSL? And the GSL schedule for this year doesn't count? Or are they going to have leagues as planned, just not all of them are going to double as WCS qualifiers?
My initial thought was that GSL/OSL would continue to run their own tourney's as is, but with certain ones doubling as the WCS qualifiers as you said.
i.e
Season 1 OSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS) Season 1 GSL (also WCS qualifier)
Season 2 OSL (also WCS qualifier) Season 2 GSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS)
Season 3 OSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS) Season 3 GSL (also WCS qualifier)
.. and so on...
Whether this is true is not clear right now, I suppose we'll have to wait for Tastosis to clarify for us.
It's already been clarified, the OSL and GSL ARE the qualifiers. There will be 2 GSL's and 1 OSL this year.
potential disaster if koreans win all the qualifiers in every region. they need to restrict the regions but just allocate more of the prize money + qualification slots towards the korean qualifiers to compensate for the stiffer competition.
No matter how I look at it, WCS's conditions are disadvantageous for Korean players. Players currently in the qualifiers can't even participate in the upcoming WCS Korea. Also the players competing in the GSL in the hardest competition will qualify as Korean representatives.
However if you don't block Korean players from going to other countries, practicing in Korea and playing in Korean tournaments becomes an idiotic thing to do.
Everyone will prefer advancing easily in EU or NA instead of Korea where there are many strong Koreans, so I don't understand Blizzard's tournament idea at all. Either make it so only that country's players can play or don't make the GSL into a WCS tournament and instead make a separate qualifier. This just makes the Korean players that are currently in the qualifiers not want to participate.
Even as a Code S player I'm having a lot of thoughts, but just imagine how it would be for a player in Code A or the qualifiers. The conclusion is I hate this format.
LG IM alone has MVP, First, Byul, Ragnarok and Seed in the qualifiers along with Nestea and Yonghwa in Code A. All these players have automatically been taken out of the running for the first season of WCS Korea. Only the 32 players determined by their WoL results are Korean representatives.
If I compared it simply to football, there's the Premier League, Chinese League and J-League. They're holding the Champions League and they want to give the top 5 teams in these 3 leagues a seed. However the clubs can pick what league they want to play in, and the second tier/third tier Premier League teams can't even participate in the Champions League while the Chinese and J-League compete with all clubs together. Then what would the strong teams such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool e.t.c. in the Premier League think?
And what would the lower tier Premier league teams think? Even second tier Premier teams could be top placers in a Chinese or Japanese league but why would they bother playing in the Premier League minor leagues when they can't get into the Champions League?
It would be easier to accept if they just split it up like the last WCS where Europe only has European players, America only has American players, Korea only has Korean players.
Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final?
@LiquidTaeJa
I should go to America or Europe!
@EGJYP
Should I just go to America~~~~
@LGIMSeed
@sk__mc I was forced into despair just by being in the qualifiers
@EGOzRC
Hmmm... Do I need to go to America
@Liquid_HerO
Is it time for me to leave???
mc brings up a solid point; why would other countries want to watch the world Finals if for instance the koreans dominate the Europe and NA finals?
they really should restrict it to continent based players only
pfft and i thought they would announce something special. Only an organized world event. Maybe I expected something more negative to much so I can't be happy about super GSL.
Region locking per season is a good thing, otherwise you could compete in all 3 regions every season. Note that NA+EU is online, so except for lag it's easy for koreans to participate, while the korean league is offline. Going to be interesting to see if they can compete with riots LCS production values.
Nope. A Korean who lives in Korea and never leaves Korea can play on NA/EU if they are willing to put up with the latency, which many are, and will, if it means much easier opponents and better opportunities (and more money).
reading comprehension my friend.. The interview mentioned top 16 of each tournament is played in a studio environment.. So if a Kr doesn't leave Korea, how does he play in the studio in the US?
How do you know the top 16 isn't played over a week or weekend and can't be funded by the team (or even Blizzard/MLG/IEM)?
I never said that, but you said A korean can NEVER leave Korea and play on NA/EU, which is false.... Logic, my friend.
Well, in any case, it's not like it's going to stop them from swapping, lol.
It's not, and it's a very good thing!! It's just that current code S players are stuck with the highest level of competition for the entire year by default, and code A players are fucked out of any chance of attending the WCS Finals at Blizzcon if they do not have the funds to go abroad, which is fucking stupid.
Well, tbh its most likely a reason why they are Code-A in the first place, and if they are good enough, they will be sent abroad, every team have the policy to send theier best inhouse performing players abroad.
I dont understand why this community always thinks everyone should hold hands and have a chance at everything, its so many good koreans, the best ones are the ones that wins, the best ones are already on code-s.
So you want to stifle the korean scene in order to help the foreign scene? Those code A players that 'aren't good enough' are better than 99% of foreigners who probably wont make it anyways because the few koreans who are code a/b and can afford the trip will win their qualifiers.
Still, winning WCS NA and EU would not be the same as winning GSL/OSL. Sure, they might have more chance to earn more money, but they will never be remember as "GSL/OSL" champion. GSL/OSL still are the most prestige tournaments out there in the scene.
Good players might just want money but great and respectable players will still want to win the most prestigious league in the world.
I agree, my fear is that GSL (and OSL) cannot be considered the most prestigious leagues in the world if half of the koreans are banned from playing in them.
Right now EVERY korean tries for GSL and OSL. That's why they matter.
I would say they will be for quite a long time. If code S/A players after this season drop out and go to play in the other region, then they will have to qualify from code B of that region again. I doubt the code S players would drop out to just try to qualify again, especially if many Koreans consider switch region too. Some code A players might think about the switch, but I would say players that is borderline code S should stick to the GSL/OSL since they have higher chance to get to code S anyway.
We might see a lot of code B trying to qualify to NA/EU regions but code B players are code B players for reasons too.
The flaw is that the current code A players who want to switch this season is stuck in Korea. But the trade off in the long run should worth it.
No WCS for Oceania this time? what do ppl like mOOnGLaDe and MaFia do? can they qualify from another region, or do they have to miss out and suck it up? =/
On April 03 2013 16:21 blackone wrote: So we have less GSL *and* less OSL? And the GSL schedule for this year doesn't count? Or are they going to have leagues as planned, just not all of them are going to double as WCS qualifiers?
My initial thought was that GSL/OSL would continue to run their own tourney's as is, but with certain ones doubling as the WCS qualifiers as you said.
i.e
Season 1 OSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS) Season 1 GSL (also WCS qualifier)
Season 2 OSL (also WCS qualifier) Season 2 GSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS)
Season 3 OSL (runs, but points don't count for WCS) Season 3 GSL (also WCS qualifier)
.. and so on...
Whether this is true is not clear right now, I suppose we'll have to wait for Tastosis to clarify for us.
It's already been clarified, the OSL and GSL ARE the qualifiers. There will be 2 GSL's and 1 OSL this year.
I get that GSL and OSL are the qualifiers, but they also take turns in being the qualifiers (GSL is the qualifer 1st and 3rd, OSL 2nd). What's more they state that leagues are free to run their own separate competitions also.
What I was wondering, was if GSL would run a tourney in the '2nd' slot (i.e. when OSL was doubling as a qualifier). The post suggests that GSL will rebroadcast the OSL stream using their own commentators which suggests that they won't (time constraints), which means we get 2 less GSL tournaments this year?
On April 03 2013 16:49 Champi wrote: No WCS for Oceania this time? what do ppl like mOOnGLaDe and MaFia do? can they qualify from another region, or do they have to miss out and suck it up? =/
No matter how I look at it, WCS's conditions are disadvantageous for Korean players. Players currently in the qualifiers can't even participate in the upcoming WCS Korea. Also the players competing in the GSL in the hardest competition will qualify as Korean representatives.
However if you don't block Korean players from going to other countries, practicing in Korea and playing in Korean tournaments becomes an idiotic thing to do.
Everyone will prefer advancing easily in EU or NA instead of Korea where there are many strong Koreans, so I don't understand Blizzard's tournament idea at all. Either make it so only that country's players can play or don't make the GSL into a WCS tournament and instead make a separate qualifier. This just makes the Korean players that are currently in the qualifiers not want to participate.
Even as a Code S player I'm having a lot of thoughts, but just imagine how it would be for a player in Code A or the qualifiers. The conclusion is I hate this format.
LG IM alone has MVP, First, Byul, Ragnarok and Seed in the qualifiers along with Nestea and Yonghwa in Code A. All these players have automatically been taken out of the running for the first season of WCS Korea. Only the 32 players determined by their WoL results are Korean representatives.
If I compared it simply to football, there's the Premier League, Chinese League and J-League. They're holding the Champions League and they want to give the top 5 teams in these 3 leagues a seed. However the clubs can pick what league they want to play in, and the second tier/third tier Premier League teams can't even participate in the Champions League while the Chinese and J-League compete with all clubs together. Then what would the strong teams such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool e.t.c. in the Premier League think?
And what would the lower tier Premier league teams think? Even second tier Premier teams could be top placers in a Chinese or Japanese league but why would they bother playing in the Premier League minor leagues when they can't get into the Champions League?
It would be easier to accept if they just split it up like the last WCS where Europe only has European players, America only has American players, Korea only has Korean players.
Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final?
@LiquidTaeJa
I should go to America or Europe!
@EGJYP
Should I just go to America~~~~
@LGIMSeed
@sk__mc I was forced into despair just by being in the qualifiers
@EGOzRC
Hmmm... Do I need to go to America
@Liquid_HerO
Is it time for me to leave???
mc brings up a solid point; why would other countries want to watch the world Finals if for instance the koreans dominate the Europe and NA finals?
they really should restrict it to continent based players only
Actually, I would love to see some Korean players moved outside of Korea to Europe or NA and compete there. :-) edit: But what I don't like is that the GSL and OSL will rebroadcast each other's tournament with their own commentators, that just sounds weird to me...
No matter how I look at it, WCS's conditions are disadvantageous for Korean players. Players currently in the qualifiers can't even participate in the upcoming WCS Korea. Also the players competing in the GSL in the hardest competition will qualify as Korean representatives.
However if you don't block Korean players from going to other countries, practicing in Korea and playing in Korean tournaments becomes an idiotic thing to do.
Everyone will prefer advancing easily in EU or NA instead of Korea where there are many strong Koreans, so I don't understand Blizzard's tournament idea at all. Either make it so only that country's players can play or don't make the GSL into a WCS tournament and instead make a separate qualifier. This just makes the Korean players that are currently in the qualifiers not want to participate.
Even as a Code S player I'm having a lot of thoughts, but just imagine how it would be for a player in Code A or the qualifiers. The conclusion is I hate this format.
LG IM alone has MVP, First, Byul, Ragnarok and Seed in the qualifiers along with Nestea and Yonghwa in Code A. All these players have automatically been taken out of the running for the first season of WCS Korea. Only the 32 players determined by their WoL results are Korean representatives.
If I compared it simply to football, there's the Premier League, Chinese League and J-League. They're holding the Champions League and they want to give the top 5 teams in these 3 leagues a seed. However the clubs can pick what league they want to play in, and the second tier/third tier Premier League teams can't even participate in the Champions League while the Chinese and J-League compete with all clubs together. Then what would the strong teams such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool e.t.c. in the Premier League think?
And what would the lower tier Premier league teams think? Even second tier Premier teams could be top placers in a Chinese or Japanese league but why would they bother playing in the Premier League minor leagues when they can't get into the Champions League?
It would be easier to accept if they just split it up like the last WCS where Europe only has European players, America only has American players, Korea only has Korean players.
Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final?
@LiquidTaeJa
I should go to America or Europe!
@EGJYP
Should I just go to America~~~~
@LGIMSeed
@sk__mc I was forced into despair just by being in the qualifiers
@EGOzRC
Hmmm... Do I need to go to America
@Liquid_HerO
Is it time for me to leave???
mc brings up a solid point; why would other countries want to watch the world Finals if for instance the koreans dominate the Europe and NA finals?
they really should restrict it to continent based players only
Actually, I would love to see some Korean players moved outside of Korea to Europe or NA and compete there. :-)
Mixed foreigner/korean team houses? Yes please.
Foreigners have had a hard time living and training in Korea, it'd be interesting to see if the opposite is true actually.
Just a few of my thoughts: 1) This is a big change, and it needs a big system. And no system is perfect at the start. Things will be sorted out. 2) As TotalBiscuit pointed out on twitter: there can be side events for GOM/KeSPA - and, with less GSL's and Blizz providing help, I think that is kinda likely. So less GSL's might actually mean more GSL's. We'll have to see. 3) It will be interesting to see which Korean players (and teams) will choose to play the Korean region and which will play EU/NA. 4) I guess we will now see, who's in it (mostly) for the money and who's in it for the competitive side. (Take this as a semi-joke, but I can clearly see the flak coming if some Korean player will choose to play NA.)
I am excited, but skeptical. It could be amazing. It could fail. Let's grab some popcorn, wait and see.
On April 03 2013 16:32 bhfberserk wrote: This sounds pretty bad. People like to watch GSl because it is the most difficult league out there. With this region switching format, I am sure there will be a lot of koreas going to other regions to play to get better prize money. and thus ruin the korea scene.
This is what I am saying, they are unintentionally hurting the GSL and OSL. They are basically saying:
"Hey guys, you can get a lot of money very easily by playing these other regions, but then you can't play GSL or OSL"
WCS was a joke compared to GSL and this is going to be more of the same, but harming GSL in the process.
This (if I understood the article correctly). They are undermining the GSL and the OSL and at the same time pulling focus away from PL. But all of these tournaments should be more prestigous than this new one because only 5 players will qualify from tournaments where the competition is good.
On April 03 2013 16:38 monkybone wrote: This is awesome. But if it means less tastosis it is not
It's going to be the same amount of tastosis. Originally there were 4 code s this year. Now there's only 3 code s and 1 osl. Tastosis will cast the osl, which makes up for the missing gsl. So in the end, they will still be casting 4 KR tournaments this year as originally planned.
Is SC2 still going to be played in the normal MLG Pro Circuit? I take it that the Season Finales held in NA will be hosted by MLG, but that is only one offline-event a year.
And as far as Dreamhack and NASL are concerned, at least for dreamhack we can say that offline-events will still have thheir place outside of WCS, the only thing I see greatly affected here is that maybe NA-players will be less inclined to travel (more like Koreans nowadays.) As for NASL, maybe they have to change their Format.
EPT
