EPTMarch 18th 2013: David Kim's HotS Thoughts - Page 5
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:35 TimENT wrote: I think he wishes there was a way to make ground units more consistent in the early/mid/late game in a similar way that Terran gets to do that with Speedvacs. Like I posted earlier in this thread, I think that overlord speed and overlord drops should be merged into the same upgrade. Maybe Blizz could give overlords a hive tech upgrade as well that makes them more durable. This is from a spectators perspective. I want to see MORE drops like the Innovation v Flash match, IN ALL MATCHUPS. There are very effective roach/ling aggro options, roach/baneling bust, ling/bane bust, roach burrow, ling/bane with fast burrow for baneling mines. There's quite a bit of Zerg aggression that was always there it's just some players opt to never do it because they think it's too risky when the more abusive Zergs will do "all-ins" like this quite often because if you kill at least 8 SCVS (which you often can) then you equalize or are ahead with not much drawback. And then there's mutas :D they're faster. Oh and overlord speed is tier1, it's almost a form of indirect aggression or passive-aggro when you see speed overlords flying around your base like 5 min in and laying creep at every expo on the map lol. | ||
Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
1. Remove cooldown with afterburners (so you can use it right after another one is finished) 2. When medivac is done you get three (3) times to use it. 3. Recharge costs of half your medivac energy to get 3 more. Buff and nerf same time  | ||
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:39 avilo wrote: There are very effective roach/ling aggro options, roach/baneling bust, ling/bane bust, roach burrow, ling/bane with fast burrow for baneling mines. There's quite a bit of Zerg aggression that was always there it's just some players opt to never do it because they think it's too risky when the more abusive Zergs will do "all-ins" like this quite often because if you kill at least 8 SCVS (which you often can) then you equalize or are ahead with not much drawback. And then there's mutas :D they're faster. Oh and overlord speed is tier1, it's almost a form of indirect aggression or passive-aggro when you see speed overlords flying around your base like 5 min in and laying creep at every expo on the map lol. sorry should have been more clear, I meant a stronger potential in transports..similar to warp prism buff in WoL and speed boost in medivac. also can you stop calling Fungal 12 range it's a little misleading as at range 12 you're only able to fungal like 1 unit (fyi he's combining range of fungal, with radius of the fungal spell). it's like saying psi storm is 10.5 range but only hits 1 unit at that range -_- | ||
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Taefox
1533 Posts
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TimENT
United States1425 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:39 avilo wrote: There are very effective roach/ling aggro options, roach/baneling bust, ling/bane bust, roach burrow, ling/bane with fast burrow for baneling mines. There's quite a bit of Zerg aggression that was always there it's just some players opt to never do it because they think it's too risky when the more abusive Zergs will do "all-ins" like this quite often because if you kill at least 8 SCVS (which you often can) then you equalize or are ahead with not much drawback. And then there's mutas :D they're faster. Oh and overlord speed is tier1, it's almost a form of indirect aggression or passive-aggro when you see speed overlords flying around your base like 5 min in and laying creep at every expo on the map lol. Mutalisks and ling runbys are great for spectators in the same way that speedvacs are. But at some point mutalisks and lings lose their aggressive capabilities where speedvacs don't. I just wish there was a way for Zerg to keep that aggressive capability beyond hive tech and 3/3 marines. I truly believe that this potential lies in overlords/burrow. As for roach/bane and bane busts. These really aren't the aggression tactics that spectators love. They are the equivalent to 4 medivac timings vs P or gateway timings v T. My point is that in that situation if T is unable to do damage with that 4 medivac push at 10 minutes, he can take a step back and be aggressive in multiple spots. I want to see Z unable to do damage with that roach bane, and be able to take a step back and transition into more capable drops or burrow. You know what I mean? It's great for spectators when they can back off an be aggressive later. This brings me to my next point. Warp prisms for P could use little help as well | ||
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centergoliath4
37 Posts
fast cheap tactical strikes. big scary doomworms just blasting your enemies mainbase and wrecking havock on him thats what nydus was meant to be! 100/50 cost to plop 12 zergslings in your enemies mainbase. when you feel the times right (with 60 second charges) and the nydus gets stronger every 30 seconds Nydus redesigned. Zerg can now only have 1 nydus network alive (like mothership). nydus network costs 50/100 Nydus networks spawn with 1 charge. Every 60 seconds they get a new charge (max of 2 charges). Cooldown stops counting if 2 charges are reached (begins once a charge is used) Spawn nydus worm uses a charge to cast (no cooldown). Costs 100/50 to use. May be placed ANYWHERE without vision needed. If building is blocking it says "cannot place". If unit is blocking it pushes the unit Nydus worms now spawn INSTANTLY (no buildtime) Nydus worms spawn with 6 charges. Each charge lets them unload 1 food (zerglings deplete half a charge per unload). They gain 6 charges every 30 seconds (max of 24). Unload may be put on autocast. Theres a "big unload" button which gives highest food units priority Nydus worm may need health reduction. ALSO, i realize this new nydus is pretty powerful and maybe needs other balancing nerfs as well Here is one idea i have. Possibly make it so NYDUS WORMS are always permanently revealed to the enemy (like when you have no nexus). this could give the slight nerf mass nydus might need to make it possible to move out on the map against them Also zergs tumoring the map might be OP with this nydus. Possibly make it so nydus worms no longer make creep. This means a zerg needs to spend another 75 minerals (proxy hatch) to get down a proxy tumor which IMO seems ok to me since he also uses 3 charges on the nydus worm to do it. | ||
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Rainling
United States456 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:45 Empirimancer wrote: How about, Nydus Worm can only be spawned on creep, but costs 25 minerals and 25 gas? That's a nice idea, but the issue is overlords can drop creep at lair tech, so you can have instant creep wherever you want to create a nydus. | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:51 Rainling wrote: That's a nice idea, but the issue is overlords can drop creep at lair tech, so you can have instant creep wherever you want to create a nydus. What if you could only create nydus next to creep tumor and/or hatchery. That would eliminate instant creep problem. | ||
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Spoink
Austria150 Posts
In my opinion the right approach atm. | ||
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Ctesias
4595 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3691 Posts
vs Terran: Even though speed medivacs aren't the main concern of zvt atm, it's still a fact that even if you go muta you get to shoot them a few times and then they just boost away, thus while you can deflect drops you can't punish terran, with scorges if you c onnect once you should be able to kill the medivac. Plus it would make all the boosting away in your medivacs after taking a bad engagement a lot harder to do. vs Protoss: Corrupters are trash vs void rays and hydras get stormed away, we saw at iem that void rays clump like fuck so fungal is a good tool (though feedback can deal with that as well), I feel like fungal + scourge should give zerg a fair chance vs air toss. Should also help a lot with speed prisms, and make muta vs phoenix a lot more dynamic then range phoenix killing all the mutas while corrupters are too slow to catch up. vs Zerg: Right now muta vs muta in zvz is who has more, sometimes there is an upgrade timing, sometimes having your lings soak up some bounces helps, scourge would obviously make the matchup way way more interesting, and I feel like fungal + scourge would open up non-muta based armies too. Obviously you can't just add supply free cheap as fuck bw scourges into a game with larva inject, but I feel like if tweaked right they would help out zerg a lot atm. Sadly blizzard will never add a unit via patch so we'll have to wait till legacy of the void... Other than that, good to hear that they are actually smart and wait now, I feel like a lot of earlier star 2 patches were made without much thought and giving the game time to balance out, I really thought we'd see a medivac nerf this/next week, but I'm super happy they chill and wait. | ||
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TimENT
United States1425 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:56 Lorch wrote: Just add scorges, they would fix zerg problems in every matchup: vs Terran: Even though speed medivacs aren't the main concern of zvt atm, it's still a fact that even if you go muta you get to shoot them a few times and then they just boost away, thus while you can deflect drops you can't punish terran, with scorges if you c onnect once you should be able to kill the medivac. Plus it would make all the boosting away in your medivacs after taking a bad engagement a lot harder to do. vs Protoss: Corrupters are trash vs void rays and hydras get stormed away, we saw at iem that void rays clump like fuck so fungal is a good tool (though feedback can deal with that as well), I feel like fungal + scourge should give zerg a fair chance vs air toss. Should also help a lot with speed prisms, and make muta vs phoenix a lot more dynamic then range phoenix killing all the mutas while corrupters are too slow to catch up. vs Zerg: Right now muta vs muta in zvz is who has more, sometimes there is an upgrade timing, sometimes having your lings soak up some bounces helps, scourge would obviously make the matchup way way more interesting, and I feel like fungal + scourge would open up non-muta based armies too. Obviously you can't just add supply free cheap as fuck bw scourges into a game with larva inject, but I feel like if tweaked right they would help out zerg a lot atm. Sadly blizzard will never add a unit via patch so we'll have to wait till legacy of the void... I really wish Blizz had just removed Corruptors and added Scourge in HotS. Sighhh hopefully in LotV | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:42 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Way to fix medivacs and still retain its purpose and aggressive use. 1. Remove cooldown with afterburners (so you can use it right after another one is finished) 2. When medivac is done you get three (3) times to use it. 3. Recharge costs of half your medivac energy to get 3 more. Buff and nerf same time or why not just link it to energy directly and play with the numbers instead of some weird system? make it like every other spell in the game ;P | ||
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Sabu113
United States11076 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:49 Porishan wrote: I feel this thread will become ' How to nerf Medivac Afterburn ' thread which is really bad Would you prefer us to mindlessly praise HoTS as BW reborn and amazing while meanwhile being superior to BW? There's a primal sort of defensiveness with the SC2 community with regard to its game. A sort of insecurity that any mention of something that might be bad about the game. Mix that in with an anxiety regarding LoL and it leads to a weird sort of collective schizophrenia. So they're aware something isn't quite right but the game is so complex that it isn't obviously a problem yet. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote: Agreed, or people who want to do one build forever. I have a friend who is super pissed he can't always take a fast third(as zerg) against terran every game because of widow mines. He acts like it is the end of the world, but I know that he is just grumpy that he can't macro his way to A-move glory. Personally, I'm really bad at two control groups on two different screens, but I am willing to work on that if it means I don't have play the tutle game any more. Ive had people rage at me in masters, and i mean like really crazy rage all caps 20+ lines about me being an "all in faggot" when they take a fourth cc from 7 marines and a tank then go straight 4-5 factory mech in front of my observers without ever scanning or pressuring me and i kill them. Apparently i was supposed to react by taking a fourth nexus at 7:30, who would have known. | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:59 MCDayC wrote: or why not just link it to energy directly and play with the numbers instead of some weird system? make it like every other spell in the game ;P Because this requires more clicking (which increases micromanagement+fail possibilities) plus you can escape with your medivac if feedbacked (if charges left) or used all for healing. | ||
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centergoliath4
37 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:43 lichter wrote: They've mentioned before that they are always looking at the corruptor and agree that it's a boring unit that Zergs hate to use unless going Broodlords and have no choice. Unfortunately it looks like they can't find a solution for it. Most good Protoss use warp prisms all the time. Void Rays are more interesting now than before, but yeah some more micro potential for the skill would be nice. Nydus is BW required creep to be built and that's why it was so cheap. In SC2 you only need vision, so making it cheaper would break it. Maybe make it cheaper to be built on creep but more expensive out of it? Also here is my idea make corrupters exciting 1) Corruption removed 2) new ability added. Reality Rift. The corrupter stands still and channels the ability to 3 seconds, after which it instantly teleports to any location on the map. Infinite range, no vision required, 3 minute cooldown. 3) broodlord morph time reduced to 10 seconds. Would this REALLY be OP? I dont know. But would add a cool element of rifting corrupters and putting 1-2 broodlords at an expansion really quickly causing some havock. Also rifting corrupters to kill drops. | ||
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