EPTMarch 18th 2013: David Kim's HotS Thoughts - Page 2
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Orek
1665 Posts
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:32 hellokittySC2 wrote: i don't know *fun to watch* for medivac speed is the correct correlation to balance. What do you like more late 2011 TvZ or post-queen patch TvZ? I like what idra said. Mines/speed medivacs are great because they are kinda silly. Other races need that( i can see it in vipers/oracles partially), game should be balanced by strong units/abilities not nerfed to the ground so its no fun to play/spectate. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
that and maybe zerg drops could use a little boost as well. all the same arguments that d.kim made there apply to these things really. i'd advocate protoss buffs but they already got theirs in WoL, and have a lot of potential with speedy, more healthy warp prisms, and proxy pylons being a low cost/low tech way to be aggressive as well | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
MLG and IEM have been really awesome to watch, so much original creative approaches to builds and strategies! | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:39 peidongyang wrote: How are Mexicans in tvp fun when it basically forces toss to 1 base allin or never to move out and just die? Edit medivacs stupid autocorrect Hahhahaha mexicans, LOL Anyways, excellent statement, there's nothing to change yet | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:43 TimENT wrote: We saw MC adapting at MLG with Oracle harassment followed by 6 Phoenixes. Those 6 Phoenixes provided map control/vision and stopped SOME drops. Basically those games were extremely fast paced and entertaining. It is true and cut into the standard terran FE openings, which let them get to the 4 medivac promised land. It frees up the gas for him to build the 6 phoenixes. I have to watch those games again to see his build. The old days of 1 gate FE and 1 Rax FE are dead. Anyone who tries to go that route is going to get slapped around. | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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TimENT
United States1425 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:48 Plansix wrote: It is true and cut into the standard terran FE openings, which let them get to the 4 medivac promised land. It frees up the gas for him to build the 6 phoenixes. I have to watch those games again to see his build. The old days of 1 gate FE and 1 Rax FE are dead. Anyone who tries to go that route is going to get slapped around. He had several variations of this build. We saw a build with an oracle expo which transitioned into 4-5 oracles plus 5 gate. It murdered the 'current standard' reactor marine/minedrop/expo. We also saw early expo into 2 oracles plus the 6 phoenixes. He transitioned into normal colossi/storm and had excellent map control/vision with oracle envision and the 6 phoenixes | ||
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:45 Zelniq wrote: yeah.. well I really wish they'd take this "stronger, aggressive attack method potential = exciting/interesting" idea to zerg..they have this great idea of a building called nydus but unfortunately it's completely reliant on either the opponent not spotting it, or you putting it in a safe place (such as outside their base) that adds only a small amount of aggressive potential that essentially, from the defender's POV, is the same as defending any normal frontal attack that and maybe zerg drops could use a little boost as well. all the same arguments that d.kim made there apply to these things really. i'd advocate protoss buffs but they already got theirs in WoL, and have a lot of potential with speedy, more healthy warp prisms, and proxy pylons being a low cost/low tech way to be aggressive as well I love the nydus, but it is a free doom drop if it is not spotted. If anything, they should limit the number of units that can be loaded into the nydus at a time and force the player to load and unload. This would require two screen multi tasking and put more of a delay on the nydus dumping out a full army. With that limitation, they could make it more awesome, harder to kill without the risk of it being game ending if it gets up. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:39 peidongyang wrote: How are Mexicans in tvp fun when it basically forces toss to 1 base allin or never to move out and just die? Edit medivacs stupid autocorrect So that's how they are getting across the border. It must be the afterburners. I'm with the camp that thinks that if they decide that medivacs are imbalanced, the best fix is to let zerg and protoss in on the fun. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:51 TimENT wrote: He had several variations of this build. We saw a build with an oracle expo which transitioned into 4-5 oracles plus 5 gate. It murdered the 'current standard' reactor marine/minedrop/expo. We also saw early expo into 2 oracles plus the 6 phoenixes. He transitioned into normal colossi/storm and had excellent map control/vision with oracle envision and the 6 phoenixes I know and I want to know them all. I hate PvT with the fire of a nova because I have to be so passive and I don't like waiting for my opponent to come for me. I also love phoenixes because they are so fun to use. Also, the style would make be better at SC2, because my macro while multi tasking is pretty crap right now. | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:34 lichter wrote: Sure I'm getting slaughtered on ladder but I'm glad they are taking their time and not rushing to nerf things because of the vocal idiocy. I mean minority. Maybe you should start adapting and come up with new strategies? Surely It's too early to say nothing works. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:38 Plansix wrote: I think he is talking about MC and his "Yo, if I build four oracles, you better not try to defend those with just marines," builds. Those were pretty impressive and make FE builds for terran look pretty risky. Ah cool. Haven't seen any games yesterday... timezones. Gotta sleep when I have a presentation the day after  | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:40 TimENT wrote: Some things I'd love to see from Blizz regarding 'super aggressive play' that is extremely fun to watch: -Corruptors are SO boring in the game at the moment. Please implement a change that makes them powerful from a players point of view, and captivating to watch as an audience member. This could also affect Mutafests in ZvZ, speedvacs, and airtoss. Well, alternatively they could allow the Mutalisk to morph into the Devourer again. The SC2 Devourer looks good. You'll be amazed at how the Devourer flaps it wings (it's in the HotS map editor, you need to set the dependencies to both of the story mode/campaign ones; the Devourer is already set up in the editor, so you can just place it on the map to see how it looks). That, and add the ability for flying units to being to attack move move (and "dance") without losing speed or stopping. (In BW, you could dance Mutas by making sure you attack targets the Mutalisks are already facing. If the Mutalisk is given an order to attack something it isn't already facing, it turns and it loses speed and acceleration which added a lot to Mutalisk micro potential.) If in SC2, you could micro Mutalisk (and other air units) like in BW, then that'd be fun. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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TimENT
United States1425 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:45 Zelniq wrote: yeah.. well I really wish they'd take this "stronger, aggressive attack method potential = exciting/interesting" idea to zerg..they have this great idea of a building called nydus but unfortunately it's completely reliant on either the opponent not spotting it, or you putting it in a safe place (such as outside their base) that adds only a small amount of aggressive potential that essentially, from the defender's POV, is the same as defending any normal frontal attack that and maybe zerg drops could use a little boost as well. all the same arguments that d.kim made there apply to these things really. i'd advocate protoss buffs but they already got theirs in WoL, and have a lot of potential with speedy, more healthy warp prisms, and proxy pylons being a low cost/low tech way to be aggressive as well Life is a pretty good example of someone who takes the basic units of Z (Lings and Mutalisks) and turns them into "stronger, agressive attack method potential" units. Leenock also commonly uses drops and Nydus networks as extremely aggressive tactics. However, I would love to see drops/nydus buffed in a way that keeps them at their current state of 'chessyness' but makes them an overall consistent tactic for Zerg players to use. I remember when baneling drops were used by DRG vs P all the time. I've done a lot of thinking that could give Zerg more early/midgame aggressive tactics: What if Blizz merged the drops & overlord speed upgrades? What if Blizz the merged roach speed and burrow upgrades? What if Blizz increased the speed of corruptors, lowered their health, and gave them the ability to 'corrupt' enemy air units(attach to them and deal light AoE, and they can be targeted, but it also kills the unit it attaches to)? What if Blizz decreased the cost of nydus worms if they are placed ON creep? Just a couple ideas... | ||
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rename
Estonia329 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:45 Zelniq wrote: they have this great idea of a building called nydus but unfortunately it's completely reliant on either the opponent not spotting it, or you putting it in a safe place (such as outside their base) Hmm maybe they should make it so you can build your nydus in a safe place and then use vipers to abduct it into the base. | ||
sitromit
7051 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:02 TimENT wrote: Life is a pretty good example of someone who takes the basic units of Z (Lings and Mutalisks) and turns them into "stronger, agressive attack method potential" units. Leenock also commonly uses drops and Nydus networks as extremely aggressive tactics. However, I would love to see drops/nydus buffed in a way that keeps them at their current state of 'chessyness' but makes them an overall consistent tactic for Zerg players to use. I remember when baneling drops were used by DRG vs P all the time. I've done a lot of thinking that could give Zerg more early/midgame aggressive tactics: What if Blizz merged the drops & overlord speed upgrades? What if Blizz the merged roach speed and burrow upgrades? What if Blizz increased the speed of corruptors, lowered their health, and gave them the ability to 'corrupt' enemy air units(attach to them and deal light AoE, and they can be targeted, but it also kills the unit it attaches to)? What if Blizz decreased the cost of nydus worms if they are placed ON creep? Just a couple ideas... How is cheaper Nydus on creep going to make for more aggression in any matchup other than ZvZ? | ||
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