EPT[Story spoilers!!] Heart of the HOTS continued - Page 19
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snotboogie
Australia3550 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On March 16 2013 07:17 snotboogie wrote: "I AM NIADRA!!!!!" Ugh. I'm not surprised after WoL, though. SC and BW had amazing writing. This is just... I'll just enjoy multiplayer =D Zasz: "Greetings! I too am a Cerebrate for the Overmind!" Yeah, clearly SC and BW was infinitely better. | ||
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Gatesleeper
Canada300 Posts
On March 16 2013 07:53 fuzzylogic44 wrote: I thought it was great. I don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games, and with that in mind I give it a 10 out of 10. This kind of sentiment has been expressed many times over this thread, and I think it speaks to perhaps the most central facet of this argument. What should our expectations be for Starcraft? For any video game? A lot of people have said that people who didn't like the game simply had too high expectations for what the story of Starcraft could be and do. I disagree, and think that if you "don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games", your expectations are too low. Sure, if you set the bar low enough, the story for HotS is a "10 out of 10", but that is a very low bar indeed. I am holding Starcraft to a higher standard, one set by Blizzard and by Starcraft 1/BW. If you're one of those people who keep saying that the story/writing in SC2 is actually not much worse than SC1, you're simply wrong. Watch the goddamn cinematics from Starcraft 1/BW. This is pacing, this is atmosphere. This is writing. This is drama, and more writing. If you can watch those cinematics and tell me Kerrigan jumping around beating up Zeratul or Narud or killing marines DBZ style is just as good, well, then that's an opinion I couldn't possibly change with arguments. | ||
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tomwizz
524 Posts
"you destroy my base? hah dosen't matter you will get crushed anyway" "just give up, you have no hope" "This is my plan blah blah blah" It's annoying and kinda remind me of Diablo 3 boss. common blizz... | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:09 Gatesleeper wrote: This kind of sentiment has been expressed many times over this thread, and I think it speaks to perhaps the most central facet of this argument. What should our expectations be for Starcraft? For any video game? A lot of people have said that people who didn't like the game simply had too high expectations for what the story of Starcraft could be and do. I disagree, and think that if you "don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games", your expectations are too low. Sure, if you set the bar low enough, the story for HotS is a "10 out of 10", but that is a very low bar indeed. I am holding Starcraft to a higher standard, one set by Blizzard and by Starcraft 1/BW. If you're one of those people who keep saying that the story/writing in SC2 is actually not much worse than SC1, you're simply wrong. Watch the goddamn cinematics from Starcraft 1/BW. This is pacing, this is atmosphere. This is writing. This is drama, and more writing. If you can watch those cinematics and tell me Kerrigan jumping around beating up Zeratul or Narud or killing marines DBZ style is just as good, well, then that's an opinion I couldn't possibly change with arguments. The first movie is a cheesy ripoff of Aliens...and no, that's no me comparing any space alien thing to Aliens, it's a blatantly cheesy copy of Aliens. It also had zero relevance to the mission, the campaign or the story. 2nd one is Mengst pontificating. Yes, SC1 and BW has very good monologues, but having a good 5 minute long speech is not remotely the same as having a good story. 3rd...I swear it's exactly the same as the suicide scene from A Few Good Men. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Lauriel
United States108 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:39 Taidanii wrote: IE if these items were of better quality the people that have an issue with the game would be happier. Why is it that it seems to be the purpose of some individuals to try to convince everyone else that 2+2=5 when we all know the real arithmetic Because math isn't an opinion. How a story resonates with you is. | ||
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Warlock40
601 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:01 Tachion wrote: Conversation between Izsha and kerrigan. "Even if we fall, and die in this battle, we've already done the impossible. We've shattered the power of Mensk." Yea not too impossible judging from the other 3 times it happened >_> Seriously, what a joke. Who knew you could still be an underdog while storming the enemy's capital? | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5775 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:17 WolfintheSheep wrote: The first movie is a cheesy ripoff of Aliens...and no, that's no me comparing any space alien thing to Aliens, it's a blatantly cheesy copy of Aliens. It also had zero relevance to the mission, the campaign or the story. 2nd one is Mengst pontificating. Yes, SC1 and BW has very good monologues, but having a good 5 minute long speech is not remotely the same as having a good story. 3rd...I swear it's exactly the same as the suicide scene from A Few Good Men. So? His point doesn't have anything to do with originality. His point is that SC1/BW, there was better pacing, atmosphere, writing and drama. Also, I assume that if you think that the SC1/BW writing was "unnoriginal" (perfectly arguable), SC2 is just as much "unnoriginal". Between "unnoriginal" and good and "unnoriginal" and crappy, I'll take "unnoriginal" and good. | ||
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snotboogie
Australia3550 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:05 WolfintheSheep wrote: Zasz: "Greetings! I too am a Cerebrate for the Overmind!" Yeah, clearly SC and BW was infinitely better. Yes, it was, because Zasz has a believable motivation to introduce himself - he is enlisting your player's character, a cerebrate, to help in accomplishing his mission. Motivation creates believability. Niadra is just screaming her name into the ether. She has no real reason to do so - so as the player, believability is broken. The only function of her line is to inform me, the player, of who she is. This shatters the illusion for me. This breaks the fourth wall. This is only one of a hundred examples where in SC and BW, characters behaved believably (i.e. had logical motivations for what they were doing), while in SC2, everything is written to pander to the audience. And do you know why believability is important? Because if I can't suspend disbelief, then literally nothing that happens in the story matters to me. The characters don't feel real anymore and all that drama adds up to zero. | ||
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anrimayu
United States875 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:34 Sbrubbles wrote: So? His point doesn't have anything to do with originality. His point is that SC1/BW, there was better pacing, atmosphere, writing and drama. Also, I assume that if you think that the SC1/BW writing was "unnoriginal" (perfectly arguable), SC2 is just as much "unnoriginal". Between "unnoriginal" and good and "unnoriginal" and crappy, I'll take unnoriginal and good. If it was just "unoriginal", that would be fine. Except it wasn't. If you focus purely on the dialogues at the start of the missions, and maybe 1/3rd of the cinematics, you're right, SC1 had a good, solid, fluid story. But that's ignoring how horrible most of the in-game dialogue was, how completely random the mission objectives were (and unrelated they were to the briefing chats), how stereotypical all of the characters were (every Terran was a redneck, every Toss was some noble knight), how so many of the cinematics were completely meaningless other than cool visuals (Rocket Launcher on some Dragoon? Terran rednecks making a Zergling roadkill?). Everyone focuses on the big twists and drama scenes in SC1...except those only happened 2/10 missions in every campaign. Everything else was meaningless, boring filler. On March 16 2013 08:42 snotboogie wrote: Yes, it was, because Zasz has a believable motivation to introduce himself - he is enlisting your player's character, a cerebrate, to help in accomplishing his mission. Motivation creates believability. Niadra is just screaming her name into the ether. She has no real reason to do so - so as the player, believability is broken. The only function of her line is to inform me, the player, of who she is. This shatters the illusion for me. This is only one of a hundred examples where in SC and BW, characters behaved believably (i.e. had logical motivations for what they were doing), while in SC2, everything is written to pander to the audience. No, Zasz had no believable reasons. The Cerebrates were given personalities, and were forced to talk to each other purely for the purpose of having more characters to listen to during the Zerg campaign. Turning the hive mind of the Zerg into "the old, wise Overmind" and a collection of minions with human personalities was completely random. If the game had come out now, people would be whining about it as well...hell, they did the exact same thing with HotS, whining that Zerg characters are acting "human". | ||
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Kamakiri
Sweden312 Posts
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snotboogie
Australia3550 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:43 WolfintheSheep wrote: If it was just "unoriginal", that would be fine. Except it wasn't. If you focus purely on the dialogues at the start of the missions, and maybe 1/3rd of the cinematics, you're right, SC1 had a good, solid, fluid story. But that's ignoring how horrible most of the in-game dialogue was, how completely random the mission objectives were (and unrelated they were to the briefing chats), how stereotypical all of the characters were (every Terran was a redneck, every Toss was some noble knight), how so many of the cinematics were completely meaningless other than cool visuals (Rocket Launcher on some Dragoon? Terran rednecks making a Zergling roadkill?). Everyone focuses on the big twists and drama scenes in SC1...except those only happened 2/10 missions in every campaign. Everything else was meaningless, boring filler. No, no, no, no. All those cinematics were believable in the world of fiction that Blizzard had created. That's what made them cool! And most of them were actually significant plot points which deserved dramatization in the form of cinematics - for example, Fenix's discovery in the temple changed things. It moved the story forward. The cinematic served a purpose in the narrative. On March 16 2013 08:43 WolfintheSheep wrote: No, Zasz had no believable reasons. The Cerebrates were given personalities, and were forced to talk to each other purely for the purpose of having more characters to listen to during the Zerg campaign. Turning the hive mind of the Zerg into "the old, wise Overmind" and a collection of minions with human personalities was completely random. If the game had come out now, people would be whining about it as well...hell, they did the exact same thing with HotS, whining that Zerg characters are acting "human". You're setting up a strawman. Personally, I think the best writing in HotS is the Zerg companions - because they behave consistently and in-character, and their dialogue is smart - particularly Abathur's. This thread shows that a lot of people agree with me. Can you show me where you see people saying the Zerg characters are acting "too human"? | ||
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
Look at War3. When you play as the undead you start out weak and dominated by the burning legion and have to fight the dominace over you. When you are orc (a traditionally evil thing to be) you just wanna be find a place to live and be left alone. When you are kerrigan you randomly annihilate planets because, eh... Mengsk is bad, right? Yeah, gotta get that mengsk guy. Someone who is extremely powerfull then gets even more powerfull and in the process kills people indiscriminantly is just plain dull. Kerrigan is a cunt. Don't make a cunt your protaganist. On a more technical note, the story telling was awful aswell. Videos games for the most part have terrible stories. That's fine. Don't have to reinvent the wheel to make a car. But you gotta put that effort in somewhere else then. I wouldn't mind the most cliche plot, if it was done well (cliches are there because they've been proven to work again and again). This wasn't really though, even compared to WoL (which I liked). In WoL you have a bunch of characters walking around a ship, talking to eachother, interacting with all the conflicts that naturally follow. In the first missions of the Leviathan it's just a cunt talking to monsters comming out of the wall and floors. Seriously. Who the fuck thought this was gonna be exciting? I know I'm hardly being fair by only playing a third of the game, but there was a reason I never got further... | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Contrast that with sc1: Terran: Lead a revolution only to put in place a more corrupt government and Kerrigan dies Zerg: Zomg Kerrigan isn't dead wtf o.0 Protoss: The Dark templars aren't such bad guys after all. Protoss civilization is reunified by Tassadar. Raynor allies with the protoss. Tassadar dies. Well fuck that was great, I wonder how BW will turn out: Protoss: Actually this was the weakest of the 6 original campaigns. Very similar to WoL and HotS in how you have one major objective that you slowly build towards with few twists. Terran: Earth exists in this universe? Wow! Mengsk is dethroned. Overmind captured. Stukov dies, Duran is a traitor working for Kerrigan. Zerg: Vengeance all around. A shitload of character deaths, including the overmind, Duran was playing Kerrigan as well? Who could he be? Hybrids revealed in the secret mission. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:51 Kamakiri wrote: In every blizzard game that has been released after WC3 TFT, the story has been utter shit and hots is no exception. I have no idea what made blizzard writing team so bad, at least the gameplay in hots was really fun. tbh I found the story of WC3 & TFT is utter shit too ^_^. WoL was okay for me, but HotS really took a flat way to boredom. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:17 WolfintheSheep wrote: The first movie is a cheesy ripoff of Aliens...and no, that's no me comparing any space alien thing to Aliens, it's a blatantly cheesy copy of Aliens. It also had zero relevance to the mission, the campaign or the story. 2nd one is Mengst pontificating. Yes, SC1 and BW has very good monologues, but having a good 5 minute long speech is not remotely the same as having a good story. 3rd...I swear it's exactly the same as the suicide scene from A Few Good Men. Technically everything is borrowed in this world. It's just how you package it that counts. You see the references all the time when it comes to Blizzard games. | ||
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