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On March 16 2013 09:46 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 09:32 Bagi wrote:
My problem with the campaign is that very little actually happens. What happens is utterly predictable. I was actually a little excited when I thought they might make Jimmy hate Kerrigan, but no, they had to make him a corny sidekick towards the end.
Kerrigan hates Mengsk. Kerrigan kills Mengsk. Did we really need 20 missions to tell this story? The only redeeming part was to me was Zerus and the interesting origin of the zerg, the rest was utterly forgettable. Its just a shallow, predictable plot that is spread way too thin over too many expansions with lots of pretty cinematics trying to hide how little it has to tell. In the BW days this plot would've been done in an arc of 3 missions at most. And even that was a retcon, heh. I don't see what that was necessary given the existing backstory that was already developed.
I don't think so. Earth was a volcanic world too long ago. Look what happened over time. It evolved along with the life on it. Seems reasonable to think Zerus could be the same. Also, Duran was in BW and hinted heavily that he worked for someone much bigger that we hadn't met. There were even hybrids. They had to introduce him sometime.
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Thanks for the link. Loved this comment from that thread:
I personally really disliked the change from "uncaring and unstoppable tide of monsters" to "misunderstood creatures that were abused in their past that are trying to shake free from their dark masters"
This was cool when it was the Orcs, it's beyond stupid for the Zerg
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On March 16 2013 10:42 Sbrubbles wrote:Thanks for the link. Loved this comment from that thread: Show nested quote +I personally really disliked the change from "uncaring and unstoppable tide of monsters" to "misunderstood creatures that were abused in their past that are trying to shake free from their dark masters"
This was cool when it was the Orcs, it's beyond stupid for the Zerg
I thought the missions were super fun, but I was really looking forward to playing as the badass Queen of Blades again and just straight up beating up on everything. Like BW Kerrigan was so much fun to play as. So I was rather disappointed that in a game in which the story is supposed to be about "choices" you don't get any choices in the campaign itself (branching missions). Like, why, why would I give Valerian time to evacuate the civilians on Korhal? Screw that, I was looking forward to play as a cosmic terror and instead had to settle for a girl written with the emotions of a teenager.
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My major dislikes with this story was how Duran/Nurad were handled and Stukov. The Stukov thing was like "what?" until he gave his lil explanation and then I had to look it up "Oh in N64 BW they did have this". Seemed forced since I wasn't aware of this before hand. With Narud they should have somehow acknowledged they were the same person (like are we supposed to assume Kerrigan and Stukov know its Duran?) In the fight scene they could have done this by having him 1st transform into Duran and sending off a lil taunt before he starts with the mind games by transforming into Raynor. Plus we aren't sure exactly if this particular facility was his "big" one since in BW he claimed he had Hybrids set up on "hundreds of worlds". His role with the Hybrids should have been explored more besides "well hes doing it....for AMON!" and what their role is and how big it will be (again it was alluded to in BW that this was a mass operation but its swept under the rug after they took out this one facility).
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On March 16 2013 10:34 Lauriel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 09:46 Dfgj wrote:On March 16 2013 09:32 Bagi wrote:
My problem with the campaign is that very little actually happens. What happens is utterly predictable. I was actually a little excited when I thought they might make Jimmy hate Kerrigan, but no, they had to make him a corny sidekick towards the end.
Kerrigan hates Mengsk. Kerrigan kills Mengsk. Did we really need 20 missions to tell this story? The only redeeming part was to me was Zerus and the interesting origin of the zerg, the rest was utterly forgettable. Its just a shallow, predictable plot that is spread way too thin over too many expansions with lots of pretty cinematics trying to hide how little it has to tell. In the BW days this plot would've been done in an arc of 3 missions at most. And even that was a retcon, heh. I don't see what that was necessary given the existing backstory that was already developed. I don't think so. Earth was a volcanic world too long ago. Look what happened over time. It evolved along with the life on it. Seems reasonable to think Zerus could be the same. Also, Duran was in BW and hinted heavily that he worked for someone much bigger that we hadn't met. There were even hybrids. They had to introduce him sometime.
The scope of time between the Xel'Naga upbringing of the Zerg is probably a bit less than billions of years.
Introducing someone Duran works for is fine. Changing the motivations and nature of a tremendous number of characters to fit the reveal is a retcon.
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Pretty good campaign. Better than WoL anyway. Not very surprising but efficient.
And yeah kerrigan killed Mengsk at least, it shouldnt take 2 games for that. But it is because of the WoL campaign. Nothing really happened in it.
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The entire plot arcs of WoL and HotS exist to create a scenario where Zerg, Terran, and Protoss can all work together to defeat Amon in LotV.
After they do so, Kerrigan will find an Overmind shaped frozen throne to sit on, and she'll become permanently encased in icy Creep while all of the Zerg sit around doing nothing. Meanwhile, Zeratul will become increasingly disturbed after having killed Amon, and in the end he will be posessed by Amon. Zeratul/Amon will search the Void and wake up both of Amon's brothers, who will proceed to assault the Xel'naga Temple on Shakuras and corrupt the Khalis/Uraj Worldstones within. The Terran heroes Raynor, Stetmann, Horner, and Mira Han will slay Amon and both of his brothers but it's too late to reverse the corruption. The destruction of the worldstones will cause corrupted beings of evil to burst forth from every inhabited world - Ragnaros will erupt on Char, Kael'thas will steal the protoss fleets from Shakuras, Lich King Bolvar Fordragon will take over Zerus, and God-Emperor Anduin Wrynn will unite Earth, Tarsonis and Korhal under an Alliance banner. Raynor and Kerrigan have babies, and the perfect combination of Terran and Zerg essence causes their kids to turn into Nephalem with far greater psionic potential than either race by itself. Their babies grow up into player characters who must pay a monthly fee for the privilege of fighting through LFR, normal, and Heroic raid instances, and they then pay an additional monthly fee so that they don't have to do daily quests. Unfortunately for them, God-Emperor Wrynn had more money than any of the Nephalem, so he bought out all of their gear on the RMAH and they will never be able to beat his Enrage timer no matter how hard they try.
And since LotV came to a tragic ending, people will finally like the storyline again, it's just like Brood War!
Fin.
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On March 16 2013 11:06 Piousflea wrote:
The entire plot arcs of WoL and HotS exist to create a scenario where Zerg, Terran, and Protoss can all work together to defeat Amon in LotV.
After they do so, Kerrigan will find an Overmind shaped frozen throne to sit on, and she'll become permanently encased in icy Creep while all of the Zerg sit around doing nothing. Meanwhile, Zeratul will become increasingly disturbed after having killed Amon, and in the end he will be posessed by Amon. Zeratul/Amon will search the Void and wake up both of Amon's brothers, who will proceed to assault the Xel'naga Temple on Shakuras and corrupt the Khalis/Uraj Worldstones within. The Terran heroes Raynor, Stetmann, Horner, and Mira Han will slay Amon and both of his brothers but it's too late to reverse the corruption. The destruction of the worldstones will cause corrupted beings of evil to burst forth from every inhabited world - Ragnaros will erupt on Char, Kael'thas will steal the protoss fleets from Shakuras, Lich King Bolvar Fordragon will take over Zerus, and God-Emperor Anduin Wrynn will unite Earth, Tarsonis and Korhal under an Alliance banner. Raynor and Kerrigan have babies, and the perfect combination of Terran and Zerg essence causes their kids to turn into Nephalem with far greater psionic potential than either race by itself. Their babies grow up into player characters who must pay a monthly fee for the privilege of fighting through LFR, normal, and Heroic raid instances, and they then pay an additional monthly fee so that they don't have to do daily quests. Unfortunately for them, God-Emperor Wrynn had more money than any of the Nephalem, so he bought out all of their gear on the RMAH and they will never be able to beat his Enrage timer no matter how hard they try.
And since LotV came to a tragic ending, people will finally like the storyline again, it's just like Brood War!
Fin.
*clap clap clap*
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On March 16 2013 11:06 Piousflea wrote:
The entire plot arcs of WoL and HotS exist to create a scenario where Zerg, Terran, and Protoss can all work together to defeat Amon in LotV.
After they do so, Kerrigan will find an Overmind shaped frozen throne to sit on, and she'll become permanently encased in icy Creep while all of the Zerg sit around doing nothing. Meanwhile, Zeratul will become increasingly disturbed after having killed Amon, and in the end he will be posessed by Amon. Zeratul/Amon will search the Void and wake up both of Amon's brothers, who will proceed to assault the Xel'naga Temple on Shakuras and corrupt the Khalis/Uraj Worldstones within. The Terran heroes Raynor, Stetmann, Horner, and Mira Han will slay Amon and both of his brothers but it's too late to reverse the corruption. The destruction of the worldstones will cause corrupted beings of evil to burst forth from every inhabited world - Ragnaros will erupt on Char, Kael'thas will steal the protoss fleets from Shakuras, Lich King Bolvar Fordragon will take over Zerus, and God-Emperor Anduin Wrynn will unite Earth, Tarsonis and Korhal under an Alliance banner. Raynor and Kerrigan have babies, and the perfect combination of Terran and Zerg essence causes their kids to turn into Nephalem with far greater psionic potential than either race by itself. Their babies grow up into player characters who must pay a monthly fee for the privilege of fighting through LFR, normal, and Heroic raid instances, and they then pay an additional monthly fee so that they don't have to do daily quests. Unfortunately for them, God-Emperor Wrynn had more money than any of the Nephalem, so he bought out all of their gear on the RMAH and they will never be able to beat his Enrage timer no matter how hard they try.
And since LotV came to a tragic ending, people will finally like the storyline again, it's just like Brood War!
Fin.
Bravo!
Except Amon's brothers are the Xel'Naga I believe? He IS the fallen one.
And I'd say Zeratul will probably die. I hope he does. I love Zeratul and I love Protoss, but something about him has death written all over.
If Tassadar returns and saves everyone it will ensure a rage on the community, but I'd love Blizz forever :3
En Taro Tassadar.
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Also, as much as people may tire of it.
I'd love SC3.
With the UED returning, the Xel'Naga returning and IDK... Cerebrates returning?
Let's all return for a final match... come out when im 90 so I can die happy... yeahhh
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On March 15 2013 07:41 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 07:33 mordk wrote:
There's one thing about all the complaints I don't really ever begin to understand. Why are people so upset that Jim loves Kerrigan and doesn't have the guts to kill her?
I seriously do not understand how anyone who played SC doesn't really know Jim was ALWAYS in love with Kerrigan. This was always as obvious as it gets. And I got that when I played SC, being like.. 14? It isn't weird at all for me that Blizzard took this course for the Raynor-Kerrigan plot line, it seems rather obvious to me that Jim wouldn't be so heartless to just kill her, since he is hopelessly in love with her and has always been.
Otherwise, I agree, the story is weak, but I still have enjoyed the campaigns immensely.
I also liked the new characters, even though I agree that they're kinda forgettable. I have my hopes up for Zeratul, main character of LotV.
I've always thought there's 2 main problems with the people complaining.
First, people have COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC expectations of this game's story, of Diablo's storyline, and of any game's storyline really. If compared to more mature storytelling media, there's only a handful of good stories throughout the ENTIRETY of gaming's history. And that's fine, because it's evolving, it's a very young media. If you want deep storylines without the cheesiness, the plotholes, etc, either pick your games really carefully, or go back to books and movies.
Second, people seem to have a nostalgia-filled vision of the original SC's storyline. While it wasn't nearly as cheesy as this one, the truth is SC's storyline was pretty basic, and just as bad as this one. Blizzard's writers weren't geniuses then, and they aren't now. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it though, you just need to look at it for what it is and get off that high flying cloud you people live in. Well, one of the climactic moments of BW is Jim's anger after Fenix is killed: I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan! For Fenix, and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power! It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you. Basically all off the SC2 plot is subverting this, which sucks because it was such a cool scene.
Uh, did you not play the HotS campaign or something?
+ Show Spoiler [HotS Story] +When Kerrigan breaks Jim out of the prison ship, the cut scene brings that whole situation to the forefront. Raynor basically repeats what he said in Brood War: "Tell that to Fenix. Tell that to the millions you butchered". Kerrigan hands him a gun and places the barrel on her forehead, saying specifically: "You promised you would kill the Queen of Blades".
You might be surprised by this, but sometimes a situation is more complicated than making a statement and following through. That you can't appreciate the depth of this scene isn't the fault of Blizzard's writers.
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On March 16 2013 11:38 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 07:41 Alzadar wrote:On March 15 2013 07:33 mordk wrote:
There's one thing about all the complaints I don't really ever begin to understand. Why are people so upset that Jim loves Kerrigan and doesn't have the guts to kill her?
I seriously do not understand how anyone who played SC doesn't really know Jim was ALWAYS in love with Kerrigan. This was always as obvious as it gets. And I got that when I played SC, being like.. 14? It isn't weird at all for me that Blizzard took this course for the Raynor-Kerrigan plot line, it seems rather obvious to me that Jim wouldn't be so heartless to just kill her, since he is hopelessly in love with her and has always been.
Otherwise, I agree, the story is weak, but I still have enjoyed the campaigns immensely.
I also liked the new characters, even though I agree that they're kinda forgettable. I have my hopes up for Zeratul, main character of LotV.
I've always thought there's 2 main problems with the people complaining.
First, people have COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC expectations of this game's story, of Diablo's storyline, and of any game's storyline really. If compared to more mature storytelling media, there's only a handful of good stories throughout the ENTIRETY of gaming's history. And that's fine, because it's evolving, it's a very young media. If you want deep storylines without the cheesiness, the plotholes, etc, either pick your games really carefully, or go back to books and movies.
Second, people seem to have a nostalgia-filled vision of the original SC's storyline. While it wasn't nearly as cheesy as this one, the truth is SC's storyline was pretty basic, and just as bad as this one. Blizzard's writers weren't geniuses then, and they aren't now. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it though, you just need to look at it for what it is and get off that high flying cloud you people live in. Well, one of the climactic moments of BW is Jim's anger after Fenix is killed: I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan! For Fenix, and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power! It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you. Basically all off the SC2 plot is subverting this, which sucks because it was such a cool scene. Uh, did you not play the HotS campaign or something? + Show Spoiler [HotS Story] +When Kerrigan breaks Jim out of the prison ship, the cut scene brings that whole situation to the forefront. Raynor basically repeats what he said in Brood War: "Tell that to Fenix. Tell that to the millions you butchered". Kerrigan hands him a gun and places the barrel on her forehead, saying specifically: "You promised you would kill the Queen of Blades".
You might be surprised by this, but sometimes a situation is more complicated than making a statement and following through. That you can't appreciate the depth of this scene isn't the fault of Blizzard's writers.
That's not depth. That's rewriting a character.
The entire story of BW and the climax of Jim's character was hand-waved away by a few lines in that cutscene, meanwhile he was rewritten as utterly lovesick where no such thing was present before.
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On March 16 2013 11:41 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 11:38 iamcaustic wrote:On March 15 2013 07:41 Alzadar wrote:On March 15 2013 07:33 mordk wrote:
There's one thing about all the complaints I don't really ever begin to understand. Why are people so upset that Jim loves Kerrigan and doesn't have the guts to kill her?
I seriously do not understand how anyone who played SC doesn't really know Jim was ALWAYS in love with Kerrigan. This was always as obvious as it gets. And I got that when I played SC, being like.. 14? It isn't weird at all for me that Blizzard took this course for the Raynor-Kerrigan plot line, it seems rather obvious to me that Jim wouldn't be so heartless to just kill her, since he is hopelessly in love with her and has always been.
Otherwise, I agree, the story is weak, but I still have enjoyed the campaigns immensely.
I also liked the new characters, even though I agree that they're kinda forgettable. I have my hopes up for Zeratul, main character of LotV.
I've always thought there's 2 main problems with the people complaining.
First, people have COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC expectations of this game's story, of Diablo's storyline, and of any game's storyline really. If compared to more mature storytelling media, there's only a handful of good stories throughout the ENTIRETY of gaming's history. And that's fine, because it's evolving, it's a very young media. If you want deep storylines without the cheesiness, the plotholes, etc, either pick your games really carefully, or go back to books and movies.
Second, people seem to have a nostalgia-filled vision of the original SC's storyline. While it wasn't nearly as cheesy as this one, the truth is SC's storyline was pretty basic, and just as bad as this one. Blizzard's writers weren't geniuses then, and they aren't now. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it though, you just need to look at it for what it is and get off that high flying cloud you people live in. Well, one of the climactic moments of BW is Jim's anger after Fenix is killed: I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan! For Fenix, and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power! It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you. Basically all off the SC2 plot is subverting this, which sucks because it was such a cool scene. Uh, did you not play the HotS campaign or something? + Show Spoiler [HotS Story] +When Kerrigan breaks Jim out of the prison ship, the cut scene brings that whole situation to the forefront. Raynor basically repeats what he said in Brood War: "Tell that to Fenix. Tell that to the millions you butchered". Kerrigan hands him a gun and places the barrel on her forehead, saying specifically: "You promised you would kill the Queen of Blades".
You might be surprised by this, but sometimes a situation is more complicated than making a statement and following through. That you can't appreciate the depth of this scene isn't the fault of Blizzard's writers.
That's not depth. That's rewriting a character. The entire story of BW and the climax of Jim's character was hand-waved away by a few lines in that cutscene, meanwhile he was rewritten as utterly lovesick where no such thing was present before.
Where "no such thing" was present before...? Please take a moment to actually play StarCraft 1 and follow up with some reading of StarCraft lore.
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On March 16 2013 11:49 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 11:41 Dfgj wrote:On March 16 2013 11:38 iamcaustic wrote:On March 15 2013 07:41 Alzadar wrote:On March 15 2013 07:33 mordk wrote:
There's one thing about all the complaints I don't really ever begin to understand. Why are people so upset that Jim loves Kerrigan and doesn't have the guts to kill her?
I seriously do not understand how anyone who played SC doesn't really know Jim was ALWAYS in love with Kerrigan. This was always as obvious as it gets. And I got that when I played SC, being like.. 14? It isn't weird at all for me that Blizzard took this course for the Raynor-Kerrigan plot line, it seems rather obvious to me that Jim wouldn't be so heartless to just kill her, since he is hopelessly in love with her and has always been.
Otherwise, I agree, the story is weak, but I still have enjoyed the campaigns immensely.
I also liked the new characters, even though I agree that they're kinda forgettable. I have my hopes up for Zeratul, main character of LotV.
I've always thought there's 2 main problems with the people complaining.
First, people have COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC expectations of this game's story, of Diablo's storyline, and of any game's storyline really. If compared to more mature storytelling media, there's only a handful of good stories throughout the ENTIRETY of gaming's history. And that's fine, because it's evolving, it's a very young media. If you want deep storylines without the cheesiness, the plotholes, etc, either pick your games really carefully, or go back to books and movies.
Second, people seem to have a nostalgia-filled vision of the original SC's storyline. While it wasn't nearly as cheesy as this one, the truth is SC's storyline was pretty basic, and just as bad as this one. Blizzard's writers weren't geniuses then, and they aren't now. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it though, you just need to look at it for what it is and get off that high flying cloud you people live in. Well, one of the climactic moments of BW is Jim's anger after Fenix is killed: I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan! For Fenix, and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power! It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you. Basically all off the SC2 plot is subverting this, which sucks because it was such a cool scene. Uh, did you not play the HotS campaign or something? + Show Spoiler [HotS Story] +When Kerrigan breaks Jim out of the prison ship, the cut scene brings that whole situation to the forefront. Raynor basically repeats what he said in Brood War: "Tell that to Fenix. Tell that to the millions you butchered". Kerrigan hands him a gun and places the barrel on her forehead, saying specifically: "You promised you would kill the Queen of Blades".
You might be surprised by this, but sometimes a situation is more complicated than making a statement and following through. That you can't appreciate the depth of this scene isn't the fault of Blizzard's writers.
That's not depth. That's rewriting a character. The entire story of BW and the climax of Jim's character was hand-waved away by a few lines in that cutscene, meanwhile he was rewritten as utterly lovesick where no such thing was present before. Where "no such thing" was present before...? Please take a moment to actually play StarCraft 1 and follow up with some reading of StarCraft lore.
I've played SC1 and SCBW. Recently.
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On March 16 2013 09:32 Bagi wrote:
My problem with the campaign is that very little actually happens. What happens is utterly predictable. I was actually a little excited when I thought they might make Jimmy hate Kerrigan, but no, they had to make him a corny sidekick towards the end.
Kerrigan hates Mengsk. Kerrigan kills Mengsk. Did we really need 20 missions to tell this story? The only redeeming part was to me was Zerus and the interesting origin of the zerg, the rest was utterly forgettable. Its just a shallow, predictable plot that is spread way too thin over too many expansions with lots of pretty cinematics trying to hide how little it has to tell. In the BW days this plot would've been done in an arc of 3 missions at most.
I think the problem is the units upgrades / launch area. The game revolves around the mission launch area where you go around talking to all these characters and upgrading your units and doing all this crap that just eats player and development time. In bw you just have the units and a very very very simple mission launch area. Characters just say shit and they have a lot of time to interact and run through dialogs allowing for the story arcs to not just longer but a lot more complex. Here in sc2 everything is interactive. You can click on whatever you want to play around with it... Its just a bunch of shiny icing on the game that would be awesome to have if the core story wasnt so... simple.
Edit: Also I think blizzard gives 'level design' waaay too much emphasis. The sc1/bw levels were rather straightforward. No rising lava... No flash winters or whatever.. I feel all in all the campaign levels was actually pretty shit to play (compared to the multiplayer and sc1 campaigns). But the story is soooo dam good that it really doesnt matter cause SO much shit happens in them. WOL is a great example of how sc2 story is so shit. You spend half the game going after artifacts.... All this was a matter of displaying level design. Going after trains... Using a laser to kill the toss. This all woulda been done in one or two levels in sc1/bw. The rest would be dedicated to character and story development which is why the campaign was so great 
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On March 16 2013 11:57 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 11:49 iamcaustic wrote:On March 16 2013 11:41 Dfgj wrote:On March 16 2013 11:38 iamcaustic wrote:On March 15 2013 07:41 Alzadar wrote:On March 15 2013 07:33 mordk wrote:
There's one thing about all the complaints I don't really ever begin to understand. Why are people so upset that Jim loves Kerrigan and doesn't have the guts to kill her?
I seriously do not understand how anyone who played SC doesn't really know Jim was ALWAYS in love with Kerrigan. This was always as obvious as it gets. And I got that when I played SC, being like.. 14? It isn't weird at all for me that Blizzard took this course for the Raynor-Kerrigan plot line, it seems rather obvious to me that Jim wouldn't be so heartless to just kill her, since he is hopelessly in love with her and has always been.
Otherwise, I agree, the story is weak, but I still have enjoyed the campaigns immensely.
I also liked the new characters, even though I agree that they're kinda forgettable. I have my hopes up for Zeratul, main character of LotV.
I've always thought there's 2 main problems with the people complaining.
First, people have COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC expectations of this game's story, of Diablo's storyline, and of any game's storyline really. If compared to more mature storytelling media, there's only a handful of good stories throughout the ENTIRETY of gaming's history. And that's fine, because it's evolving, it's a very young media. If you want deep storylines without the cheesiness, the plotholes, etc, either pick your games really carefully, or go back to books and movies.
Second, people seem to have a nostalgia-filled vision of the original SC's storyline. While it wasn't nearly as cheesy as this one, the truth is SC's storyline was pretty basic, and just as bad as this one. Blizzard's writers weren't geniuses then, and they aren't now. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it though, you just need to look at it for what it is and get off that high flying cloud you people live in. Well, one of the climactic moments of BW is Jim's anger after Fenix is killed: I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan! For Fenix, and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power! It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you. Basically all off the SC2 plot is subverting this, which sucks because it was such a cool scene. Uh, did you not play the HotS campaign or something? + Show Spoiler [HotS Story] +When Kerrigan breaks Jim out of the prison ship, the cut scene brings that whole situation to the forefront. Raynor basically repeats what he said in Brood War: "Tell that to Fenix. Tell that to the millions you butchered". Kerrigan hands him a gun and places the barrel on her forehead, saying specifically: "You promised you would kill the Queen of Blades".
You might be surprised by this, but sometimes a situation is more complicated than making a statement and following through. That you can't appreciate the depth of this scene isn't the fault of Blizzard's writers.
That's not depth. That's rewriting a character. The entire story of BW and the climax of Jim's character was hand-waved away by a few lines in that cutscene, meanwhile he was rewritten as utterly lovesick where no such thing was present before. Where "no such thing" was present before...? Please take a moment to actually play StarCraft 1 and follow up with some reading of StarCraft lore. I've played SC1 and SCBW. Recently.
Then why are you being so utterly dishonest about Raynor/Kerrigan?
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On March 16 2013 12:22 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 11:57 Dfgj wrote:On March 16 2013 11:49 iamcaustic wrote:On March 16 2013 11:41 Dfgj wrote:On March 16 2013 11:38 iamcaustic wrote:On March 15 2013 07:41 Alzadar wrote:On March 15 2013 07:33 mordk wrote:
There's one thing about all the complaints I don't really ever begin to understand. Why are people so upset that Jim loves Kerrigan and doesn't have the guts to kill her?
I seriously do not understand how anyone who played SC doesn't really know Jim was ALWAYS in love with Kerrigan. This was always as obvious as it gets. And I got that when I played SC, being like.. 14? It isn't weird at all for me that Blizzard took this course for the Raynor-Kerrigan plot line, it seems rather obvious to me that Jim wouldn't be so heartless to just kill her, since he is hopelessly in love with her and has always been.
Otherwise, I agree, the story is weak, but I still have enjoyed the campaigns immensely.
I also liked the new characters, even though I agree that they're kinda forgettable. I have my hopes up for Zeratul, main character of LotV.
I've always thought there's 2 main problems with the people complaining.
First, people have COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC expectations of this game's story, of Diablo's storyline, and of any game's storyline really. If compared to more mature storytelling media, there's only a handful of good stories throughout the ENTIRETY of gaming's history. And that's fine, because it's evolving, it's a very young media. If you want deep storylines without the cheesiness, the plotholes, etc, either pick your games really carefully, or go back to books and movies.
Second, people seem to have a nostalgia-filled vision of the original SC's storyline. While it wasn't nearly as cheesy as this one, the truth is SC's storyline was pretty basic, and just as bad as this one. Blizzard's writers weren't geniuses then, and they aren't now. That doesn't stop me from enjoying it though, you just need to look at it for what it is and get off that high flying cloud you people live in. Well, one of the climactic moments of BW is Jim's anger after Fenix is killed: I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan! For Fenix, and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power! It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you. Basically all off the SC2 plot is subverting this, which sucks because it was such a cool scene. Uh, did you not play the HotS campaign or something? + Show Spoiler [HotS Story] +When Kerrigan breaks Jim out of the prison ship, the cut scene brings that whole situation to the forefront. Raynor basically repeats what he said in Brood War: "Tell that to Fenix. Tell that to the millions you butchered". Kerrigan hands him a gun and places the barrel on her forehead, saying specifically: "You promised you would kill the Queen of Blades".
You might be surprised by this, but sometimes a situation is more complicated than making a statement and following through. That you can't appreciate the depth of this scene isn't the fault of Blizzard's writers.
That's not depth. That's rewriting a character. The entire story of BW and the climax of Jim's character was hand-waved away by a few lines in that cutscene, meanwhile he was rewritten as utterly lovesick where no such thing was present before. Where "no such thing" was present before...? Please take a moment to actually play StarCraft 1 and follow up with some reading of StarCraft lore. I've played SC1 and SCBW. Recently. Then why are you being so utterly dishonest about Raynor/Kerrigan?
I'm afraid people sharing a couple conversations doesn't mean they're desperately in love, except possibly in a Bioware game.
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I liked the story. And Mordk is right. Raynor was into Kerrigan from the start.
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On March 16 2013 08:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 08:09 Gatesleeper wrote:On March 16 2013 07:53 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
I thought it was great. I don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games, and with that in mind I give it a 10 out of 10. This kind of sentiment has been expressed many times over this thread, and I think it speaks to perhaps the most central facet of this argument. What should our expectations be for Starcraft? For any video game? A lot of people have said that people who didn't like the game simply had too high expectations for what the story of Starcraft could be and do. I disagree, and think that if you "don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games", your expectations are too low. Sure, if you set the bar low enough, the story for HotS is a "10 out of 10", but that is a very low bar indeed. I am holding Starcraft to a higher standard, one set by Blizzard and by Starcraft 1/BW. If you're one of those people who keep saying that the story/writing in SC2 is actually not much worse than SC1, you're simply wrong. Watch the goddamn cinematics from Starcraft 1/BW. This is pacing, this is atmosphere. This is writing. This is drama, and more writing. If you can watch those cinematics and tell me Kerrigan jumping around beating up Zeratul or Narud or killing marines DBZ style is just as good, well, then that's an opinion I couldn't possibly change with arguments. The first movie is a cheesy ripoff of Aliens...and no, that's no me comparing any space alien thing to Aliens, it's a blatantly cheesy copy of Aliens. It also had zero relevance to the mission, the campaign or the story. 2nd one is Mengst pontificating. Yes, SC1 and BW has very good monologues, but having a good 5 minute long speech is not remotely the same as having a good story. 3rd...I swear it's exactly the same as the suicide scene from A Few Good Men.
And yet they're still far better than any cinematics in WOL and HOTS where the cheese factor is about ten times higher.
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On March 16 2013 12:40 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 08:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 16 2013 08:09 Gatesleeper wrote:On March 16 2013 07:53 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
I thought it was great. I don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games, and with that in mind I give it a 10 out of 10. This kind of sentiment has been expressed many times over this thread, and I think it speaks to perhaps the most central facet of this argument. What should our expectations be for Starcraft? For any video game? A lot of people have said that people who didn't like the game simply had too high expectations for what the story of Starcraft could be and do. I disagree, and think that if you "don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games", your expectations are too low. Sure, if you set the bar low enough, the story for HotS is a "10 out of 10", but that is a very low bar indeed. I am holding Starcraft to a higher standard, one set by Blizzard and by Starcraft 1/BW. If you're one of those people who keep saying that the story/writing in SC2 is actually not much worse than SC1, you're simply wrong. Watch the goddamn cinematics from Starcraft 1/BW. This is pacing, this is atmosphere. This is writing. This is drama, and more writing. If you can watch those cinematics and tell me Kerrigan jumping around beating up Zeratul or Narud or killing marines DBZ style is just as good, well, then that's an opinion I couldn't possibly change with arguments. The first movie is a cheesy ripoff of Aliens...and no, that's no me comparing any space alien thing to Aliens, it's a blatantly cheesy copy of Aliens. It also had zero relevance to the mission, the campaign or the story. 2nd one is Mengst pontificating. Yes, SC1 and BW has very good monologues, but having a good 5 minute long speech is not remotely the same as having a good story. 3rd...I swear it's exactly the same as the suicide scene from A Few Good Men. And yet they're still far better than any cinematics in WOL and HOTS where the cheese factor is about ten times higher.
The cinematics in WoL and HotS are phenomenal. Say what you will about the dialogue, but the quality is damn near 2nd to none. If there is one thing Blizzard is exceptional at, it's cinematics.
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EPT
