EPTProps to Blizzard for including at least ONE FUCKING ZERG CHARACTER in the zerg campaing!!
I miss the cerebrates and the overmind...
[Story spoilers!!] Heart of the HOTS continued - Page 20
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
Props to Blizzard for including at least ONE FUCKING ZERG CHARACTER in the zerg campaing!! I miss the cerebrates and the overmind... | ||
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tsuxiit
1305 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:09 Gatesleeper wrote: This kind of sentiment has been expressed many times over this thread, and I think it speaks to perhaps the most central facet of this argument. What should our expectations be for Starcraft? For any video game? A lot of people have said that people who didn't like the game simply had too high expectations for what the story of Starcraft could be and do. I disagree, and think that if you "don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games", your expectations are too low. Sure, if you set the bar low enough, the story for HotS is a "10 out of 10", but that is a very low bar indeed. I am holding Starcraft to a higher standard, one set by Blizzard and by Starcraft 1/BW. If you're one of those people who keep saying that the story/writing in SC2 is actually not much worse than SC1, you're simply wrong. Watch the goddamn cinematics from Starcraft 1/BW. This is pacing, this is atmosphere. This is writing. This is drama, and more writing. If you can watch those cinematics and tell me Kerrigan jumping around beating up Zeratul or Narud or killing marines DBZ style is just as good, well, then that's an opinion I couldn't possibly change with arguments. Thank you for this post. These are perfect examples of the things I loved about the original Starcraft that are totally gone in HotS and WoL (to a slightly lesser extent). Blizzard just doesn't know what it's doing anymore. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On March 16 2013 09:06 Vorenius wrote: I think the main problem is the lack of a relatable protagonist. Kerrigan is a villain. I don't wanna be a villain. I'll admit I've only gotten about 9-10 missions in, but I don't think I'll ever finish anyway, so I'll share my opinion now regardless. Be warned. Look at War3. When you play as the undead you start out weak and dominated by the burning legion and have to fight the dominace over you. When you are orc (a traditionally evil thing to be) you just wanna be find a place to live and be left alone. When you are kerrigan you randomly annihilate planets because, eh... Mengsk is bad, right? Yeah, gotta get that mengsk guy. Someone who is extremely powerfull then gets even more powerfull and in the process kills people indiscriminantly is just plain dull. Kerrigan is a cunt. Don't make a cunt your protaganist. On a more technical note, the story telling was awful aswell. Videos games for the most part have terrible stories. That's fine. Don't have to reinvent the wheel to make a car. But you gotta put that effort in somewhere else then. I wouldn't mind the most cliche plot, if it was done well (cliches are there because they've been proven to work again and again). This wasn't really though, even compared to WoL (which I liked). In WoL you have a bunch of characters walking around a ship, talking to eachother, interacting with all the conflicts that naturally follow. In the first missions of the Leviathan it's just a cunt talking to monsters comming out of the wall and floors. Seriously. Who the fuck thought this was gonna be exciting? I know I'm hardly being fair by only playing a third of the game, but there was a reason I never got further... Okay, so you don't like to play the bad guy or in this case the bad girl and that bothers you. To me that's a pretty minor issue and heck, in the Zerg campaign of Vanilla SC and Brood War what role do you think we played? It has to be interesting to keep people involved and I guess that's where it truly failed in your eyes. I managed to get through WoL but that's because I was a SC diehard fan but it was mostly the same crap over and over again. I wasn't very engaged in the story until the very end. | ||
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Ohyra
Sweden59 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:51 Kamakiri wrote: In every blizzard game that has been released after WC3 TFT, the story has been utter shit and hots is no exception. I have no idea what made blizzard writing team so bad, at least the gameplay in hots was really fun. I agree with my fellow countryman. WC3 ROC and TFT was the greatest so far, no doubt i say. With that being said, i realize this is not the thread to compare Warcraft with SC. I just had to do it, cause i love Warcraft so much i just can not explain it in words. That's why everytime someone mentions it, i instantly jump the wagon! On to the topic at hand: I did feel as if though SC and BW had the better story compared to both WOL and HOTS. This might be partly due to the fact that i was very young when first playing SC, and partly that HOTS was made in such a non-Starcraftish way. The gameplay in the Campaign felt just too much like Diablo or WoW and i just couldn't get a feel for the game. When i played both SC and BW my whole body litteraly trembled at the idea of how cool all the races were, and their respective roles in the universe. I thought that the cinematics gave so much feel to the campaign. There were alot of them (cinematics) and i thought that they all added to the feel of having to crush your foes as your respective race. In HOTS i feel that the cinematics are too much focused on specific characters and their respective relations. This, for me, caused the game to feel too much like watching a cheesy romantic drama. In SC/BW there was so much focus on the tentions between the races as a whole. Remember how Protoss felt so incredibly mysterious when playing the Terran campaing? etc. With that being said, i realize that much of my thoughts are heavily colored by the fact that i played SC and BW at such a young age (12). Despite this, i will not budge! The original Starcraft and BW have been etched into my memory. The same goes for both Warcraft ROC and TFT. HOTS does not have the same feel though.. this can only mean that Blizz has grown weaker in its storytelling. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Kerrigan hates Mengsk. Kerrigan kills Mengsk. Did we really need 20 missions to tell this story? The only redeeming part was to me was Zerus and the interesting origin of the zerg, the rest was utterly forgettable. Its just a shallow, predictable plot that is spread way too thin over too many expansions with lots of pretty cinematics trying to hide how little it has to tell. In the BW days this plot would've been done in an arc of 3 missions at most. | ||
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Visas
Turkey119 Posts
On March 15 2013 07:56 WolfintheSheep wrote: Zoomacroom's whining is hilarious, by the way. Most of his complaints should be aimed at BW, not SC2. Doesn't like Queen of Blades, too bad, it's been established for 10 years and it's too late to drop it. Whines about Infested Stukov...that was done in BW bonus missions (and expanded upon in novels). Doesn't like shoe-horned Zerg characters with random personalities, probably wouldn't have an issue if they looked like sacs of meat and were called Cerebrates. i actually have a problem with that. Aren't zerg are really a huge single organism? Is there any need to make a simple purpose being more humane, maybe queens are kerrigans creation and since she is portrayed like a spoiled 14 year old gurl. But all before the hots crap when kerrigan was just a node on overmind, when she was the shit there were still queens around with freakin boobs. I miss the huge ugly dedicated cerebrates really. An advisor doesnt need legs | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On March 16 2013 09:32 Bagi wrote: My problem with the campaign is that very little actually happens. What happens is utterly predictable. I was actually a little excited when I thought they might make Jimmy hate Kerrigan, but no, they had to make him a corny sidekick towards the end. Kerrigan hates Mengsk. Kerrigan kills Mengsk. Did we really need 20 missions to tell this story? The only redeeming part was to me was Zerus and the interesting origin of the zerg, the rest was utterly forgettable. Its just a shallow, predictable plot that is spread way too thin over too many expansions with lots of pretty cinematics trying to hide how little it has to tell. In the BW days this plot would've been done in an arc of 3 missions at most. And even that was a retcon, heh. I don't see what that was necessary given the existing backstory that was already developed. | ||
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Bobgrimly
New Zealand250 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:09 Gatesleeper wrote: This kind of sentiment has been expressed many times over this thread, and I think it speaks to perhaps the most central facet of this argument. What should our expectations be for Starcraft? For any video game? A lot of people have said that people who didn't like the game simply had too high expectations for what the story of Starcraft could be and do. I disagree, and think that if you "don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games", your expectations are too low. Sure, if you set the bar low enough, the story for HotS is a "10 out of 10", but that is a very low bar indeed. I am holding Starcraft to a higher standard, one set by Blizzard and by Starcraft 1/BW. If you're one of those people who keep saying that the story/writing in SC2 is actually not much worse than SC1, you're simply wrong. Watch the goddamn cinematics from Starcraft 1/BW. This is pacing, this is atmosphere. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8SGFeK-79Y#t=1m02s This is writing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etq4PArPZOo#t=3m04s This is drama, and more writing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOTHfbWSOqw#t=3m55s If you can watch those cinematics and tell me Kerrigan jumping around beating up Zeratul or Narud or killing marines DBZ style is just as good, well, then that's an opinion I couldn't possibly change with arguments. Thank you!!!!! Seeing this even now with superior graphics for SC2 I would rather watch these than any SC2 clip. There isn't one in WOL OR HOTS that comes even close to how well these were done. Despite being low graphics they are timeless clips that actually are well done. Why doesn't blizzard hire these people to redo hots!!!! | ||
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Lauriel
United States108 Posts
On March 16 2013 09:32 Bagi wrote: My problem with the campaign is that very little actually happens. What happens is utterly predictable. I was actually a little excited when I thought they might make Jimmy hate Kerrigan, but no, they had to make him a corny sidekick towards the end. Kerrigan hates Mengsk. Kerrigan kills Mengsk. Did we really need 20 missions to tell this story? The only redeeming part was to me was Zerus and the interesting origin of the zerg, the rest was utterly forgettable. Its just a shallow, predictable plot that is spread way too thin over too many expansions with lots of pretty cinematics trying to hide how little it has to tell. In the BW days this plot would've been done in an arc of 3 missions at most. So Brood war missions would have you return to the zerg, reform the swarm, complete the zerus missions, save raynor, kill narud, and batter down Korhal in 3 missions? Please. I don't think so. | ||
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ChowChillaCharlie
Sweden677 Posts
He, and some other individuals in here, seems to be personally insulted that some people like the story. The story was decent, and pretty much on the same level as most other videogame plots out there. As I said earlier, it's hardly a masterpiece, but it is entertaining. | ||
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fuzzylogic44
Canada2633 Posts
On March 16 2013 08:09 Gatesleeper wrote: This kind of sentiment has been expressed many times over this thread, and I think it speaks to perhaps the most central facet of this argument. What should our expectations be for Starcraft? For any video game? A lot of people have said that people who didn't like the game simply had too high expectations for what the story of Starcraft could be and do. I disagree, and think that if you "don't look for amazing story arcs and complex characters in video games", your expectations are too low. Sure, if you set the bar low enough, the story for HotS is a "10 out of 10", but that is a very low bar indeed. I am holding Starcraft to a higher standard, one set by Blizzard and by Starcraft 1/BW. If you're one of those people who keep saying that the story/writing in SC2 is actually not much worse than SC1, you're simply wrong. Watch the goddamn cinematics from Starcraft 1/BW. This is pacing, this is atmosphere. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8SGFeK-79Y#t=1m02s This is writing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etq4PArPZOo#t=3m04s This is drama, and more writing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOTHfbWSOqw#t=3m55s If you can watch those cinematics and tell me Kerrigan jumping around beating up Zeratul or Narud or killing marines DBZ style is just as good, well, then that's an opinion I couldn't possibly change with arguments. I loved SC1 and BW stories based on the exact same criteria - they don't beat WoL or HotS in terms of story arc or character complexity. In fact being confined to in game dialog and the briefing screens made it necessary to fill in the blanks yourself and so there was less depth actually presented on screen. | ||
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Lauriel
United States108 Posts
On March 16 2013 09:46 Dfgj wrote: And even that was a retcon, heh. I don't see what that was necessary given the existing backstory that was already developed. The backstory that was developed was that of the swarm, IE the zerg that Amon took and corrupted from Zerus. Not the primals. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On March 16 2013 09:47 Lauriel wrote: So Brood war missions would have you return to the zerg, reform the swarm, complete the zerus missions, save raynor, kill narud, and batter down Korhal in 3 missions? Please. I don't think so. It could, since most of that stuff is just filler that doesn't matter in the big picture. Mission one, have ghost Kerrigan take over the swarm, Mission two, go to Zerus and evolve into primal form. Mission three, Kill Mengsk. Am I really missing anything important here? | ||
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Azureflames
United States35 Posts
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On March 16 2013 09:49 Lauriel wrote: The backstory that was developed was that of the swarm, IE the zerg that Amon took and corrupted from Zerus. Not the primals. Zerus is a volcanic world where small parasitic creatures called the Zerg exist. I'd be hesitant to call Amon anything but a retcon since it completely overwrites all existing motivation and information, but Zerus and the natural state of Zerg is also... rather new. | ||
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Lauriel
United States108 Posts
On March 16 2013 09:54 Bagi wrote: It could, since most of that stuff is just filler that doesn't matter in the big picture. Mission one, have ghost Kerrigan take over the swarm, Mission two, go to Zerus and evolve into primal form. Mission three, Kill Mengsk. Am I really missing anything important here? You think it's believable that she'd reunite the entire swarm in one mission? Or that she'd be able to become the queen of the primal Zerg in one mission? How about rescuing Raynor? How about dealing with Narud? Sorry, there's absolutely no way that can be done with any shred of believability in three missions. Not even close. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On March 16 2013 10:11 Lauriel wrote: You think it's believable that she'd reunite the entire swarm in one mission? Or that she'd be able to become the queen of the primal Zerg in one mission? How about rescuing Raynor? How about dealing with Narud? Sorry, there's absolutely no way that can be done with any shred of believability in three missions. Not even close. Rescuing Raynor (and a lot of other events surrounding individuals such as the incarceration of Tassadar, death of Zasz, etc) was done off-screen in SC1 because the individual need not always be the focus of a strategy game. Kerrigan reclaiming control of the Zerg swarm after the Psi Disruptor went active took 1 mission (though several more were handling the fallout of the situation). Similarly, The Culling, the destruction of Zasz's unled brood, took 1 mission. The entire destruction of the Overmind on Aiur took a total of 2 missions, and the conquest of Char and seizing of the Overmind in BW took 1. My post really isn't for any purpose besides showing all these things are entirely possible - not necessarily that they are good ideas. It depends on how they're executed. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On March 16 2013 09:32 Bagi wrote: My problem with the campaign is that very little actually happens. What happens is utterly predictable. I was actually a little excited when I thought they might make Jimmy hate Kerrigan, but no, they had to make him a corny sidekick towards the end. Yeah, he looks like he wants to kill her when she rescues him and she is a Zerg again, but then randomly shows up at the end to help her win...? | ||
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Gradius
United States112 Posts
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?15543-Gradius-s-HoTS-Story-Review&p=186854 http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8198642155 Personally, I think it has a slight edge over Wings of Liberty, but the incessant retcons and player-aggrandizing plot is still as much of a problem as ever. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
But nope. The writers need to learn to broaden the scope of conflict. BW was all about racial conflict across the GALAXY. You felt that. The characters are but pieces in a monumental, galaxy spanning war. Not a "love story." It is WAR. With all its glory. And all its horror. | ||
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