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On March 16 2013 03:20 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:07 Dfgj wrote:On March 16 2013 01:42 Patate wrote:
... and 6th campaign (BW zerg) was just awful. Every mission was " Kill X character" "Kill Y character", without the story advancing in any way. Kerrigan retaking control of the Zerg against the Psi-disrupted overmind, allying with Fenix/Raynor/Mengsk against the UED and restoring Korhol, betraying them both to cripple their forces once her goals were met, then kidnapping Razsagal to get the DTs to help her kill the Overmind and retake total control of the Swarm, followed by everyone in the entire sector coming after her realizing she's the greatest threat and being beat down 1v3 isn't 'advancing the story'? It IS the story. If anything, the P campaign advanced little, because the real plot was the UED threat and Kerrigan exploiting the Korprulu co-operation to launch herself to total power. To all these scholars of storytelling, the fact that Kerrigan betrayed the same characters so many times in the same game and they kept forming temporary alliances with her should at least be questionable writing.
Hmm ... I don't think there were actually a lot of betrayals in the SC1/BW. She betrayed her race by turning zerg, but she didn't have much a choice there. On Shakuras she allied herself with the protoss in order to kill the remaining cerebrates there, but just because she had an ulterior motive it doesn't mean she actively betrayed them (well, she did, but they would find out Rashagal was being controlled only at the very end). Then she betrayed Mengsk and the Protoss forces at Korhal after kicking out the UED.
So ... efectively there was only 1 betrayal. Or am I missing something?
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On March 16 2013 03:49 Lauriel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:45 NightOfTheDead wrote:On March 16 2013 03:36 Al Bundy wrote:
The OP is a bit confusing. Why did you quote that Zoomacroom guy? Who is he anyway? Why does he sound so negative? Does his opinion actually matter? Tell me which one is more "childish" between a video game scenario, or an angry nobody whining and bitching about the aforementioned scenario? Just relax and lighten up. Blizzard games are about gameplay, not story. As you see, most people here liked the story of previous games, and not on this one. They wonder why.. Duh.. I doubt that. I think the people who hate the story are the ones who are the most likely to go on the internet and complain about it.
Not liking it doesnt mean hating it though. I'd say looking at the actual product itself (the story in this case) that it is probable that a majority of adult players were atleast dissapointed with the story. I personally found the campaign fun to play. But the story had no impact what so ever for me. It could have me this the best RTS campaign ever if it was executed properly because they certainly had fun missions gameplay wise.
I even think it's unfair of me and others to say that as adults we find this story unengaging and the characters bland. Surely young kids pick up on these things too. Adults today assume kids are all moronic cod players that have the emotional depths of 5 year olds. But kids and teens are more intelligent than we give them credit for and they really do appreciate good storytelling. They might not ever have seen it in their life but when they do they know its good. Because good storytelling is objectively good. It's not a matter of taste. It's a matter of suspending disbelief and taking the player for an emotional ride. HotS did neither for me.
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On March 16 2013 02:51 Greenwizard wrote: Well the main problem here is people understanding WHO Sarah was and WHO was Kerrigan. It was always a romance , since Jim was ALWASYS trying to save Sarah. Maybe if Sarah had the same attitude as Nova in her real life maybe it would have been more atractive to watch as Nova is a mean "bitch" 
The problem with the SC2 storyline is that it is too much about the characters and not enough about the race-conflict. Sure, both main characters play an important role and you make decisions for them, but that has not the same "intensity" and "urgency" as reacting to the Zerg threatening to overrun yet another settlement or having to save someone from the Zerg which we had in the original campaigns for SC and BW.
The whole WoW-ish kind of nature of boss-battles really shows they arent making an RTS but something completely different. Combine that with the campaign-units being totally disconnected from the multiplayer-units through the various upgrades and it becomes crystal clear. They pretty much wanted to make "Warcraft IV in space" ... which the crapton of activated abilities and spellcaster units shows as well. Those things really dont help with balancing the multiplayer, because activated abilities require skill and that is something which casuals dont have. After adding this together I come to the conclusion that the dev team doesnt know what they are doing.
Sure the campaign might make some simple souls happy, but there have been many who complain about the cheesyness of it as well.
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On March 16 2013 03:51 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:20 mordk wrote:On March 16 2013 03:07 Dfgj wrote:On March 16 2013 01:42 Patate wrote:
... and 6th campaign (BW zerg) was just awful. Every mission was " Kill X character" "Kill Y character", without the story advancing in any way. Kerrigan retaking control of the Zerg against the Psi-disrupted overmind, allying with Fenix/Raynor/Mengsk against the UED and restoring Korhol, betraying them both to cripple their forces once her goals were met, then kidnapping Razsagal to get the DTs to help her kill the Overmind and retake total control of the Swarm, followed by everyone in the entire sector coming after her realizing she's the greatest threat and being beat down 1v3 isn't 'advancing the story'? It IS the story. If anything, the P campaign advanced little, because the real plot was the UED threat and Kerrigan exploiting the Korprulu co-operation to launch herself to total power. To all these scholars of storytelling, the fact that Kerrigan betrayed the same characters so many times in the same game and they kept forming temporary alliances with her should at least be questionable writing. Hmm ... I don't think there were actually a lot of betrayals in the SC1/BW. She betrayed her race by turning zerg, but she didn't have much a choice there. On Shakuras she allied herself with the protoss in order to kill the remaining cerebrates there, but just because she had an ulterior motive it doesn't mean she actively betrayed them (well, she did, but they would find out Rashagal was being controlled only at the very end). Then she betrayed Mengsk and the Protoss forces at Korhal after kicking out the UED. So ... efectively there was only 1 betrayal. Or am I missing something?
In the P campaign she's setting up her manipulation of Razsagal, then kills Aldaris before he can reveal it.
In the T campaign, Duran betrays the UED twice (allowing the Zerg through their flanks to cover Mengsk's retreat, the Stukov/destroy Psi disruptor issue) - it's reasonable to assume this is on Kerrigan's orders at this point.
For Z, she allies with Raynor/Fenix/Mengsk, and backstabs all three in mission 5. That can count as one or three, depending on how you see it.
Basically every side in the game (except the UED) gets played by her, and the UED gets played by Duran (likely on her orders).
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Anyone else a little disappointed with infested stukov. Not the actual implementation... his voice was awesome and art was even better but I liked the idea of him as one of the only survivors of infestation. Have him lurking in the shadows maybe vaguely associated with the protoss and UED survivor elements fighting for humanity.
On a large note, I agree with rab. I was more interested in the global universe they were in rather than the character interactions. (Fenix/Raynor excepted) Just think of the scale of events that happens in every fucking mission of SC1/BW and compare that with the rather trivial moments in sc2. In SC2 we're engaged in all sorts of minutae to achieve some ultimate end. It makes sense as a journey...
In SC1 we're at the pivotal battles for the future of humanity, swarm and Protoss. We witness Mengsk acquire his greatest commander and his willingness to use bioweapons to secure power. (Hell we have the whole terran experimentation in powers they don't understand), the Swarm has turned the tables and found an adaptation in the Terrans that might give them the edge on the protoss, meanwhile the protoss are in the midst of an internal struggle as a rogue executor has disobeyed the conclave and protected the Terrans when he should be eradicating zerg (not to mention associating with all sorts of heretics).
Within these events we're helping lead the invasion of Tarsonis, land the overmind on Auir and aiding the reconciliation of dark and normal protoss.
BW we're leading the UED domination of the sector, watching over the protoss resettlement into dark templar society and ... well then destroying everything the UED has done and securing the future of a leaderless swarm.
Now compare that with hunting down a bunch of artifacts or freeing prisoners (to do something I don't know what) or saving a random colony. That campaign should have been about seriously wounding mengsk in a viseral way. It did hurt mengsk but the focus should have been the rebellion not things like saving teh colonists. HoTS also focused a lot on a very nice journey that did a good job of giving us a taste of the universe but the dramatic arc is kindof unfulfilled. I think I would have liked it more of we systematically hurt the dominion ala how we hurt the confederacy. It felt more ... oh well now I'm good after solving internal issues... there's a small matter to take care of.. ok lets just get this over with.
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On March 16 2013 03:48 Lauriel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:44 BurgerFreak wrote:Seriously.... How cool would it be, if we held a writers contest for the fans.. And try to come up with the perfect starcraft 2 story? If all of us fans out there really know how the story should be... shouldn't there be somebody amongst us, who can actually WRITE? And write something extraordinary  ? You mean fanfiction? Pretty sure that's already been done about every single thing out there with any shred of popularity.
Could you perhaps point me in the generel direction of that then?
Has there been released anything that could replace the current SC2 story? And actually make it good?
I would like to read it, if so.
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On March 16 2013 04:09 Sabu113 wrote:
Anyone else a little disappointed with infested stukov. Not the actual implementation... his voice was awesome and art was even better but I liked the idea of him as one of the only survivors of infestation. Have him lurking in the shadows maybe vaguely associated with the protoss and UED survivor elements fighting for humanity.
He's been infested since Broodwars, from some of the bonus missions.
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On March 16 2013 04:07 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:51 Sbrubbles wrote:On March 16 2013 03:20 mordk wrote:On March 16 2013 03:07 Dfgj wrote:On March 16 2013 01:42 Patate wrote:
... and 6th campaign (BW zerg) was just awful. Every mission was " Kill X character" "Kill Y character", without the story advancing in any way. Kerrigan retaking control of the Zerg against the Psi-disrupted overmind, allying with Fenix/Raynor/Mengsk against the UED and restoring Korhol, betraying them both to cripple their forces once her goals were met, then kidnapping Razsagal to get the DTs to help her kill the Overmind and retake total control of the Swarm, followed by everyone in the entire sector coming after her realizing she's the greatest threat and being beat down 1v3 isn't 'advancing the story'? It IS the story. If anything, the P campaign advanced little, because the real plot was the UED threat and Kerrigan exploiting the Korprulu co-operation to launch herself to total power. To all these scholars of storytelling, the fact that Kerrigan betrayed the same characters so many times in the same game and they kept forming temporary alliances with her should at least be questionable writing. Hmm ... I don't think there were actually a lot of betrayals in the SC1/BW. She betrayed her race by turning zerg, but she didn't have much a choice there. On Shakuras she allied herself with the protoss in order to kill the remaining cerebrates there, but just because she had an ulterior motive it doesn't mean she actively betrayed them (well, she did, but they would find out Rashagal was being controlled only at the very end). Then she betrayed Mengsk and the Protoss forces at Korhal after kicking out the UED. So ... efectively there was only 1 betrayal. Or am I missing something? In the P campaign she's setting up her manipulation of Razsagal, then kills Aldaris before he can reveal it. In the T campaign, Duran betrays the UED twice (allowing the Zerg through their flanks to cover Mengsk's retreat, the Stukov/destroy Psi disruptor issue) - it's reasonable to assume this is on Kerrigan's orders at this point. For Z, she allies with Raynor/Fenix/Mengsk, and backstabs all three in mission 5. That can count as one or three, depending on how you see it. Basically every side in the game (except the UED) gets played by her, and the UED gets played by Duran (likely on her orders).
We agree, then. She betrayed everyone, yes, but it all came out at once. There was no "the fact that Kerrigan betrayed the same characters so many times in the same game and they kept forming temporary alliances with her should at least be questionable writing."
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On March 16 2013 04:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 04:09 Sabu113 wrote:
Anyone else a little disappointed with infested stukov. Not the actual implementation... his voice was awesome and art was even better but I liked the idea of him as one of the only survivors of infestation. Have him lurking in the shadows maybe vaguely associated with the protoss and UED survivor elements fighting for humanity. He's been infested since Broodwars, from some of the bonus missions.
I could swear we shot him full of some protoss nano solution.
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Mmm I wonder if Jimmy is going to be pissed at Zeratul for telling Kerrigan to go get rezergified.
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On March 16 2013 04:23 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 04:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 16 2013 04:09 Sabu113 wrote:
Anyone else a little disappointed with infested stukov. Not the actual implementation... his voice was awesome and art was even better but I liked the idea of him as one of the only survivors of infestation. Have him lurking in the shadows maybe vaguely associated with the protoss and UED survivor elements fighting for humanity. He's been infested since Broodwars, from some of the bonus missions. I could swear we shot him full of some protoss nano solution.
I didn't even know about the N64 secret mission at 1st so I was very surprised to see him. But apparently after they cured him he was captured by Narud and reinfested as an experiment.
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The story was hardly a masterpiece, but it was entertaining. Some people in this thread are hating on it to the point were they're actually looking quite pathetic.
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Very fun campaign.
Very ridiculous plot.
Amon's Jamaican.
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For the record: Spamming generalized insults because a group of loyal fans are also slinging generalized insults because they're extremely disappointed in the production quality of this expansion is extremely hypocritical. Discuss the substance and not the quality of character. It's irrelevant
The dialogue of this expansion is painful. I mean that in the literal sense. A lot of it was difficult to listen to. I had to pull out my ear buds because I was getting genuinely frustrated at the lack of effort put into the very necessary dialogue.
Stukov's new name should be Jason Voorhees. Maybe abathur infused his DNA with a cat or something. Based of his existence in HOTS he is the most powerful biological being in the universe. Pretty good for an infested Terran
If you can not see how the resolution of Duran was like the Bud Light of story resolutions you must not have played SC1. He was one of the most interesting characters in SC. Blizzard has now made a Dragon Ball Z joke of him. I'm heart broken because I've waited a decade for this to come into fruition.
Jim and Sarah love each other. They always have. Them kissing is not a big deal, I dont understand why some were irritated by this. I wonder if her saliva tasted like creep. Maybe Jim has microscopic hatcheries on his tongue spamming APM to mine taste buds now.
My biggest concern was that this expansion is the most expensive video game expansion I've ever paid for and the production quality...actually was painful to experience. I haven't been this disappointed since I bought Diablo 3 on May 15th 2012. I'm beginning to see a pattern here. But, the joke's on me. Blizzard got my money for both of these games.
Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...
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I too felt as if the HotS campaign fell far short of its potential. I can totally appreciate that others have legitimate reasons for disagreeing, though.
If it helps, I stopped taking the story seriously when Raynor pulled out his "it's time to kick this revolution into OVERDRIVE" line. That was just too much to not be intentional. So I've been able to enjoy the campaign and have fun.
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Well, I read a couple of pages to get where this thread is going. Some people are raging hard and some people are happy about the game.
The problem is, I feel that people who criticize would NEVER be happy no matter how the game comes out. Personnaly, I have been playing sc and bw since a child and waiting so long for SC2 it was a real treat to me see such an upgrade of the game with awesome graphics, awesome units and most of all awesome cinematics.
Because that you like the story or not, In my opinion the cinematics in the games are wonderful, they make you a lot into the story even if it's cheesy (for me anyways). Jim is an awesome character and Kerrigan is hot. The teen in me is very satisfied and I can't wait for part three....(Damn i'll be old when it comes out!)
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On March 16 2013 05:21 SI2 wrote:
Well, I read a couple of pages to get where this thread is going. Some people are raging hard and some people are happy about the game.
The problem is, I feel that people who criticize would NEVER be happy no matter how the game comes out. Personnaly, I have been playing sc and bw since a child and waiting so long for SC2 it was a real treat to me see such an upgrade of the game with awesome graphics, awesome units and most of all awesome cinematics.
Because that you like the story or not, In my opinion the cinematics in the games are wonderful, they make you a lot into the story even if it's cheesy (for me anyways). Jim is an awesome character and Kerrigan is hot. The teen in me is very satisfied and I can't wait for part three....(Damn i'll be old when it comes out!)
When you typed "I feel that people who criticize would NEVER be happy no matter how the game comes out" how did you feel? Was that a joke? I'm baffled that someone could actually formulate that thought.
Of course the people that found it to be of poor quality would be happy if it was better quality. How ridiculous.
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I guess my point is that you can always find a flaw like somebody said earlier, just immerse yourself in the universe and enjoy the game...and yes people will always find somebody bad to say about sc2 expensions, no matter how awesome it would be, just my 2 cents
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On March 16 2013 03:50 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 08:12 bbfg wrote:
Uhm if you didn't get it from the games that they were a thing you certainly should have gotten it from the books. But really, you should have gotten it from the games, too. Actually no. There was no indication in sc1 vanilla or brood war that they were dating or romantically involved. Go replay the games and you'll see. THey were flirting constantly but the story of them being in love was introduced in WoL.
Are you serious? The end of SC1's Terran campaign and the beginning of its Zerg campaign makes it absolutely clear that he is head over heels for her. He leads HUNDREDS of men to their deaths deep into Zerg space for a CHANCE to rescue her (and he fails anyway).
If that isn't love, then Jim Raynor is mentally retarded.
On March 16 2013 05:25 Taidanii wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:21 SI2 wrote:
Well, I read a couple of pages to get where this thread is going. Some people are raging hard and some people are happy about the game.
The problem is, I feel that people who criticize would NEVER be happy no matter how the game comes out. Personnaly, I have been playing sc and bw since a child and waiting so long for SC2 it was a real treat to me see such an upgrade of the game with awesome graphics, awesome units and most of all awesome cinematics.
Because that you like the story or not, In my opinion the cinematics in the games are wonderful, they make you a lot into the story even if it's cheesy (for me anyways). Jim is an awesome character and Kerrigan is hot. The teen in me is very satisfied and I can't wait for part three....(Damn i'll be old when it comes out!) When you typed "I feel that people who criticize would NEVER be happy no matter how the game comes out" how did you feel? Was that a joke? I'm baffled that someone could actually formulate that thought. Of course the people that found it to be of poor quality would be happy if it was better quality. How ridiculous.
No, that's false because quality is purely subjective. Certain personalities with certain opinions will always find a way to think that X or Y is terrible, even if it was the Lord of the Rings of RTS videogame storytelling.
People in this thread are nitpicking aspects of HotS while ignoring the same (or worse) flaws in all three previous titles.
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On March 16 2013 05:31 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:50 StarBrift wrote:On March 15 2013 08:12 bbfg wrote:
Uhm if you didn't get it from the games that they were a thing you certainly should have gotten it from the books. But really, you should have gotten it from the games, too. Actually no. There was no indication in sc1 vanilla or brood war that they were dating or romantically involved. Go replay the games and you'll see. THey were flirting constantly but the story of them being in love was introduced in WoL. Are you serious? The end of SC1's Terran campaign and the beginning of its Zerg campaign makes it absolutely clear that he is head over heels for her. He leads HUNDREDS of men to their deaths deep into Zerg space for a CHANCE to rescue her (and he fails anyway). If that isn't love, then Jim Raynor is mentally retarded. Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:25 Taidanii wrote:On March 16 2013 05:21 SI2 wrote:
Well, I read a couple of pages to get where this thread is going. Some people are raging hard and some people are happy about the game.
The problem is, I feel that people who criticize would NEVER be happy no matter how the game comes out. Personnaly, I have been playing sc and bw since a child and waiting so long for SC2 it was a real treat to me see such an upgrade of the game with awesome graphics, awesome units and most of all awesome cinematics.
Because that you like the story or not, In my opinion the cinematics in the games are wonderful, they make you a lot into the story even if it's cheesy (for me anyways). Jim is an awesome character and Kerrigan is hot. The teen in me is very satisfied and I can't wait for part three....(Damn i'll be old when it comes out!) When you typed "I feel that people who criticize would NEVER be happy no matter how the game comes out" how did you feel? Was that a joke? I'm baffled that someone could actually formulate that thought. Of course the people that found it to be of poor quality would be happy if it was better quality. How ridiculous. No, that's false because quality is purely subjective. Certain personalities with certain opinions will always find a way to think that X or Y is terrible, even if it was the Lord of the Rings of RTS videogame storytelling. People in this thread are nitpicking aspects of HotS while ignoring the same (or worse) flaws in all three previous titles.
Everyone that is negatively criticizing the expansion in this thread are consistently hitting the same points: Dialogue, the plot holes, and the resolution of Duran
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EPT
