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On March 13 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 23:24 Ravensong170 wrote:Article:
Composed mainly of North American players, ROOT Gaming has never been able to compete consistently against the top South Korean players that dominate the sport. But Heart of the Swarm could be an opportunity for smaller teams to make a move up the totem pole. On March 13 2013 21:41 shadymmj wrote:
It's a well written article, but I disagree with some of the points. For one, no, ROOT gaming will not have a ghost of a chance with their current lineup. Or any foreign team for that matter. Root did beat FXO in the IPTL, people seem to forget this. That's FXO the GSTL champion team. Sage played like an absolute BEAST and he continues to impress. Also Leiya and Yugioh played very well, especially Yugioh beating leenock. So yea they (probably  ) aren't gonna win the GSTL or any team league with Korean teams, but they aren't going to be rolfstomped either. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene, in either Dota or SC2 and only point out failings. people need to relax and just enjoy e-sports on a whole instead of hating on foreigners/koreans Hating on NA/EU is a problem that in unique to SC2 and I would almost say that it is most prevalent on TL. LoL has none of these problems, even though the Korean and Chinese teams are arguably more skilled that NA/EU ones. I see way less of it in Dota2 as well. Really, the community puts a lot of burden for NA/EU players to beat Korean players, rather than compete against each other, which sets the bar at a slightly unrealistic level. It is a problem we create for ourselves, but we do keep hearing that folks like MLG and NASL are working on ways to grown the NA/EU scene
The skill gap between Koreans in LoL or Chinese in Dota 2 and those from NA/EU/elsewhere is arguably a lot less than the skill desparity between Koreans and NA/EU/elsewhere players in SC2, which is probably the reason why they aren't hated on as much in those communities.
Just look at NaVi going so far in the international 2 or winning the first one and TA winning that big Riot invitational thingy and compare that to foreigner success in SC2, it's not even close.
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Is this a thread about how nitpicky we can be about everything incontrol says or something?
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This thread makes no sense, just random guessing about how good/bad players are gonna be in hots.
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On March 15 2013 01:55 nihlon wrote:
Is this a thread about how nitpicky we can be about everything incontrol says or something?
The choice of having incontrol in that article is really a questionable choice, maybe just to make it sensational and controversial?
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On March 15 2013 02:05 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 01:55 nihlon wrote:
Is this a thread about how nitpicky we can be about everything incontrol says or something? The choice of having incontrol in that article is really a questionable choice, maybe just to make it sensational and controversial?
No, let's not go that far.
They chose him because he talks a lot in the community (want it or not, he is still relevant to the community.. just not to the actual game), and since he probably doesn't practice much, he probably had the time to answer, no?
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On March 15 2013 02:15 Patate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 02:05 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:On March 15 2013 01:55 nihlon wrote:
Is this a thread about how nitpicky we can be about everything incontrol says or something? The choice of having incontrol in that article is really a questionable choice, maybe just to make it sensational and controversial? No, let's not go that far. They chose him because he talks a lot in the community (want it or not, he is still relevant to the community.. just not to the actual game), and since he probably doesn't practice much, he probably had the time to answer, no?
Ah i see. Good point.
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The analogy with Tiger Woods and golf to professional players and SC2 is really poor.
SC2 changed dramatically since the release of the WOL until March 1st 2013. Many abilities were removed, new ones added, the map pool dramatically changed, the balance of units was adjusted. In fact, one could argue that HOTS is closer to WOL now, than WOL now is to WOL at release. Interestingly though, many of the elite players are the same... MVP, MKP, MC, Nestea... and this is because the ability to adapt and innovate is key in E-sports, and players who can do those things well are successful. I'm not sure if it is the same in Golf, and your article hints that it isn't.
SC2 is a fluid game that changes over time. New strategies and maps come and go, and different styles and skills develop. And that is why we see good players stick around for so long. Sure, their skill might diminish or improve over time, but people don't just fall off (in terms of their ability to innovate or adapt) when a patch/expansion comes out (tournament results might change due to balance changes, but that has to do with Blizzard, not player skill).
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hard to take your article seriously when you interview incontrol about pro level play
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Then they arent pros!. Many foreigners WILL fall away into darkness and with that, the true skill will come forward. The amazing broodlord micro we have seen the past year will hopefully not be as effective and a result of this is quite obvious.
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On March 15 2013 01:54 Ettick wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:On March 13 2013 23:24 Ravensong170 wrote:Article:
Composed mainly of North American players, ROOT Gaming has never been able to compete consistently against the top South Korean players that dominate the sport. But Heart of the Swarm could be an opportunity for smaller teams to make a move up the totem pole. On March 13 2013 21:41 shadymmj wrote:
It's a well written article, but I disagree with some of the points. For one, no, ROOT gaming will not have a ghost of a chance with their current lineup. Or any foreign team for that matter. Root did beat FXO in the IPTL, people seem to forget this. That's FXO the GSTL champion team. Sage played like an absolute BEAST and he continues to impress. Also Leiya and Yugioh played very well, especially Yugioh beating leenock. So yea they (probably ) aren't gonna win the GSTL or any team league with Korean teams, but they aren't going to be rolfstomped either. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene, in either Dota or SC2 and only point out failings. people need to relax and just enjoy e-sports on a whole instead of hating on foreigners/koreans Hating on NA/EU is a problem that in unique to SC2 and I would almost say that it is most prevalent on TL. LoL has none of these problems, even though the Korean and Chinese teams are arguably more skilled that NA/EU ones. I see way less of it in Dota2 as well. Really, the community puts a lot of burden for NA/EU players to beat Korean players, rather than compete against each other, which sets the bar at a slightly unrealistic level. It is a problem we create for ourselves, but we do keep hearing that folks like MLG and NASL are working on ways to grown the NA/EU scene The skill gap between Koreans in LoL or Chinese in Dota 2 and those from NA/EU/elsewhere is arguably a lot less than the skill desparity between Koreans and NA/EU/elsewhere players in SC2, which is probably the reason why they aren't hated on as much in those communities. Just look at NaVi going so far in the international 2 or winning the first one and TA winning that big Riot invitational thingy and compare that to foreigner success in SC2, it's not even close.
Na'vi is more of an outlier more than anything, just like how Stephano for awhile was virtually the only person that could be semi-competitive against elite level Koreans. In DotA 2, the Asian dominance is still strong, just not as ridiculous as SC2 (7 out of the top 8 were Asian teams).
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On March 13 2013 05:08 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 04:23 Canucklehead wrote:Like artosis said on sotg before, it will mean the end to some patch zergs.  If that Flash vs Life game is any indication on the multi tasking and skill required for Zerg in HOTS I weep for foreigners
I'm a foreigner but I never understand this stance. I want a game that rewards strong mechanics/multi-tasking no matter who that favors. It seems that Koreans have a better infrastructure for training as well as possessing most of the better players in a near vicinity and this is a definite advantage but as we've seen in the past can be accessed if an individual is willing to sacrifice.
On a positive note, I love the fast-paced games I've seen from HotS.
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On March 13 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 23:24 Ravensong170 wrote:Article:
Composed mainly of North American players, ROOT Gaming has never been able to compete consistently against the top South Korean players that dominate the sport. But Heart of the Swarm could be an opportunity for smaller teams to make a move up the totem pole. On March 13 2013 21:41 shadymmj wrote:
It's a well written article, but I disagree with some of the points. For one, no, ROOT gaming will not have a ghost of a chance with their current lineup. Or any foreign team for that matter. Root did beat FXO in the IPTL, people seem to forget this. That's FXO the GSTL champion team. Sage played like an absolute BEAST and he continues to impress. Also Leiya and Yugioh played very well, especially Yugioh beating leenock. So yea they (probably ) aren't gonna win the GSTL or any team league with Korean teams, but they aren't going to be rolfstomped either. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene, in either Dota or SC2 and only point out failings. people need to relax and just enjoy e-sports on a whole instead of hating on foreigners/koreans Hating on NA/EU is a problem that in unique to SC2 and I would almost say that it is most prevalent on TL. LoL has none of these problems, even though the Korean and Chinese teams are arguably more skilled that NA/EU ones. I see way less of it in Dota2 as well. Really, the community puts a lot of burden for NA/EU players to beat Korean players, rather than compete against each other, which sets the bar at a slightly unrealistic level. It is a problem we create for ourselves, but we do keep hearing that folks like MLG and NASL are working on ways to grown the NA/EU scene
Nah, LoL community just hates on the asian side of things instead of EU/NA. That's why there is barely anyone watching their tournaments even though they are alot better at the game.
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On March 13 2013 05:49 ROFLOLLER wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:43 Whitley wrote:On March 13 2013 05:08 Tenks wrote:On March 13 2013 04:23 Canucklehead wrote:Like artosis said on sotg before, it will mean the end to some patch zergs. If that Flash vs Life game is any indication on the multi tasking and skill required for Zerg in HOTS I weep for foreigners Anywhere with a VOD of this? I really wanna see! http://fr.twitch.tv/starcraft/b/376430397 (beginning at 1h35)
Thanks brah, haven't watch sc2 in a while but that was awesome, great advert for sc2
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On March 15 2013 01:55 nihlon wrote:
Is this a thread about how nitpicky we can be about everything incontrol says or something?
Why limit it to this thread? Infect all the threads!
+ Show Spoiler +Seriously, get over it people.
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You can quote me on this one:
All you hater out here, iNcontRol will one day win at least one GSL!
I believe!
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On March 15 2013 03:02 aNGryaRchon wrote:
You can quote me on this one:
All you hater out here, iNcontRol will one day win at least one GSL!
I believe!
0_o
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On March 15 2013 01:49 Patate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 01:23 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 14 2013 06:05 StarStruck wrote:On March 13 2013 23:17 Waxangel wrote:On March 13 2013 03:51 Otolia wrote:“Players live on borrowed time and they know it,” said pro player and commentator Geoff Robinson, captain of the StarCraft division of Evil Geniuses, in an e-mail. Isn't that the definition of irony ? it actually isn't It is pretty funny when you hear it coming from him. How our definitions of pro players have changed. Will he ever win a GSL? No. Neither will Stephano. Would you consider Stephano not a pro? + Show Spoiler +I know it's a... ![[image loading]](http://loveforlife.com.au/files/strawman2.jpg) But the point remains the same, the number of tournament victories you have is not what defines you as a pro player or not. This is a terrible answer.. how can you compare one of the best , if not the best Foreigner, who won multiple events with koreans to a guy that constantly gets destroyed on the ladder by mid-high masters? You could say a PRO is about making a living off the game.. but don't talk about GSL please. Less than 10 people have won the GSL, and the runner-ups or other events' winners are not to be considered the same level as a High-Master, low GM skill level protoss player.
Steve Jobs was a good marketing guy who did a bit of programming.
He did pretty good for being just a dude that talks to people. Sure, his programming did not revolutionize the industry--but he was smart enough to round the edges of his computers more than the other guys, and now he's a brand name.
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Yeah... not a fan of this article. The pros who know they are good will be confident and see this as an opportunity to be the best through new strategies or more practice so they know the game better than everyone else.
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On March 15 2013 05:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 01:49 Patate wrote:On March 15 2013 01:23 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 14 2013 06:05 StarStruck wrote:On March 13 2013 23:17 Waxangel wrote:On March 13 2013 03:51 Otolia wrote:“Players live on borrowed time and they know it,” said pro player and commentator Geoff Robinson, captain of the StarCraft division of Evil Geniuses, in an e-mail. Isn't that the definition of irony ? it actually isn't It is pretty funny when you hear it coming from him. How our definitions of pro players have changed. Will he ever win a GSL? No. Neither will Stephano. Would you consider Stephano not a pro? + Show Spoiler +I know it's a... But the point remains the same, the number of tournament victories you have is not what defines you as a pro player or not. This is a terrible answer.. how can you compare one of the best , if not the best Foreigner, who won multiple events with koreans to a guy that constantly gets destroyed on the ladder by mid-high masters? You could say a PRO is about making a living off the game.. but don't talk about GSL please. Less than 10 people have won the GSL, and the runner-ups or other events' winners are not to be considered the same level as a High-Master, low GM skill level protoss player. Steve Jobs was a good marketing guy who did a bit of programming. He did pretty good for being just a dude that talks to people. Sure, his programming did not revolutionize the industry--but he was smart enough to round the edges of his computers more than the other guys, and now he's a brand name.
??
What does this have to do with anything that has been said so far? Incontrol is a SC2 community personality. He also plays the game, but so does MaximusBlack.... or Livinpink....or Artosis... He is not really a pro gamer.. the past 2 years have proved that even though he does participate, his role in the community is not to entertain us with his playstyle (other than laughing at his attempts).
And this is not to talk against him.. I think enough people have done it that I don't feel like it. His spot in this community is to be a "spokesman", and this is why he's in this article.
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On March 14 2013 01:23 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 01:03 FatNikE wrote:On March 13 2013 05:12 ZenithM wrote:
It's really nice that for now the gap between third rate players and top end gosus seem to have widened hugely.
No more of this "Xlord 5-0 Code S Terrans" nonsense :D I can't help but agree. I'm hopeful that (if blizzard ignores the whiners and newbies and leaves skill-ceiling increasing abilities like ignite afterburners alone) we won't have this XlorD, vortix, etc problem in HoTS. Naniwa, nerchio, Kas, Ret etc will still all be good but hopefully these 1 month heroes will disappear. Vortix is actually really good. Not in the same category as other patch zergs such as xlord. As for this article- yes foreigners are fucked. HotS is going to separate the players so much. In a year we will see Kespa players (plus ~5 esf players) >>>>>>>> esf players (plus ~5 foreigners) >>>>>> foreigners. The level of play is about to shoot throug the roof because of players like Flash, Life, Rain, Innovation, Fantasy, etc
Good enough to receive all his results in the couple of month period when Zerg was winning everything and nothing before or after that point, including even top 15 places on EU ladder. Xlord doesn't even really qualify as a patch Zerg because he just had one single lucky run where he beat one single good opponent in a ZvZ.... Vortix at least fulfills the mininum requirements to be considered a patchzerg (doing okay because of Zerg's position in the game, in contrast to having one tournament run ever because of zerg's low skillcap)
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EPT
