• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:13
CEST 02:13
KST 09:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou17Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four2BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET7Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)81
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (March 17-23): Clem Bounces Back
Tourneys
Tenacious Turtle Tussle RSL Season 3 Qualifier Links and Dates $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
SnOw's Awful Building Placements vs barracks BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET Is there anyway to get a private coach? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 300$ 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup #4 [ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament
Strategy
BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Current Meta Roaring Currents ASL final [I] Funny Protoss Builds/Strategies
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Sabrina was soooo lame on S…
Peanutsc
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2878 users

For Pros, Heart of the Swarm Means Fear of Failure - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
March 15 2013 00:10 GMT
#81
On March 15 2013 07:14 Patate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2013 05:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On March 15 2013 01:49 Patate wrote:
On March 15 2013 01:23 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On March 14 2013 06:05 StarStruck wrote:
On March 13 2013 23:17 Waxangel wrote:
On March 13 2013 03:51 Otolia wrote:
“Players live on borrowed time and they know it,” said pro player and commentator Geoff Robinson, captain of the StarCraft division of Evil Geniuses, in an e-mail.

Isn't that the definition of irony ?


it actually isn't


It is pretty funny when you hear it coming from him. How our definitions of pro players have changed.


Will he ever win a GSL? No.

Neither will Stephano. Would you consider Stephano not a pro?

+ Show Spoiler +
I know it's a...

[image loading]

But the point remains the same, the number of tournament victories you have is not what defines you as a pro player or not.


This is a terrible answer.. how can you compare one of the best , if not the best Foreigner, who won multiple events with koreans to a guy that constantly gets destroyed on the ladder by mid-high masters? You could say a PRO is about making a living off the game.. but don't talk about GSL please. Less than 10 people have won the GSL, and the runner-ups or other events' winners are not to be considered the same level as a High-Master, low GM skill level protoss player.


Steve Jobs was a good marketing guy who did a bit of programming.

He did pretty good for being just a dude that talks to people. Sure, his programming did not revolutionize the industry--but he was smart enough to round the edges of his computers more than the other guys, and now he's a brand name.


??

What does this have to do with anything that has been said so far? Incontrol is a SC2 community personality. He also plays the game, but so does MaximusBlack.... or Livinpink....or Artosis... He is not really a pro gamer.. the past 2 years have proved that even though he does participate, his role in the community is not to entertain us with his playstyle (other than laughing at his attempts).

And this is not to talk against him.. I think enough people have done it that I don't feel like it. His spot in this community is to be a "spokesman", and this is why he's in this article.


Steve Jobs started by building computers with his bare hands and having to figure out the nuts and bolts of what we today would call a desktop. He's not some bean counter in the back room counting the billions he made as apple skyrocketed.

He was a programmer first--businessman second. The problem was the he was a much more successful businessman than he was a programmer and so, in the end, he's known for having cool and hip products as opposed to Bill Gates who (once he made his billions) decided to spend his life fighting malaria.

Steve Jobs being a successful businessman does not make him a failure of a programmer. Incontrol not winning an MLG last year simply means that he's not Korean. That's it. Trying to suggest that he's some kind of failure and as someone who "doesn't count" as pro-gamer is ludicrous. He's a gaming professional in the gaming industry who posts results as good as the grand majority of pro-gamers our there.

The fact that fans only care about the top 4 players (or really just the top two players) of any given tournament does not trivialize incontrol's achievements. I'd never bet money on him--but I wouldn't bet money on the Cubs winning the world series either. If, in the end, he becomes more known for being a spokesperson than he does being a tournament force--that still would not detract from the fact that he does go to tournaments, he does train for them, and he does spend his time focusing on them. Saying it doesn't count simply because he didn't win anything last year puts him in the same boat as idra, as Major, as TLO, as Ret, etc...

Success is not all or nothing. Capitalism is all or nothing, a life's work is a struggle not a score count.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
xwoGworwaTsx
Profile Joined April 2012
United States984 Posts
March 17 2013 04:48 GMT
#82
Lol incontrol is nowhere near steve jobs in his contribution or reputation in sc2
Evil_Sheep
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada902 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-17 10:18:26
March 17 2013 10:18 GMT
#83
This is generally a good article and reasonably accurate for a "general interest" piece.


For e-sports players, it can be something analogous to what Tiger Woods would have to deal with if the PGA suddenly decided that all the fairways on their golf courses were too long. Golfers who had gained an advantage in the past by having a long drive would lose that edge, and players with great putting and chipping skills would gain the upper hand.

That would likely never happen in golf

Actually they alter golf courses all the time to increase the challenge for the pros, as well as having huge differences between courses, so this is a more apt comparison than you think. Along with the terrain, the conditions are highly variable in golf. Those who succeed are the ones with a well-rounded game, good fundamentals, and above all, a good mindset. Just like in pro starcraft.

I also found it interesting that big tough Incontrol talked the whole time about being "nervous" and "afraid" of change, while ROOT coach Amelia Savery is like, "we're not afraid of changes, we embrace them." Remind me which one can bench a small car?
Gravesong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States96 Posts
March 17 2013 10:39 GMT
#84
On March 15 2013 09:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Success is not all or nothing. Capitalism is all or nothing, a life's work is a struggle not a score count.


I really liked this post. It sort of elucidated how I thought about the concept of a pro gamer. There's a lot of room for professionals in the gaming industry that can have talents that span beyond winning tournaments, and who can transition from a focus on competition to other aspects of e-sport. I think it's more positive to support this than to complain about someone's success or lack thereof, especially if they're expanding the community. It creates more opportunities, not less.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
23:00
Biweekly #34
CranKy Ducklings99
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
16:00
Masters Cup #150 Qual 1-2
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft359
ProTech96
Livibee 95
SpeCial 87
Nathanias 84
CosmosSc2 53
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 681
NaDa 57
Dota 2
monkeys_forever397
League of Legends
JimRising 53
Counter-Strike
kRYSTAL_45
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox596
Other Games
summit1g8679
Grubby2359
C9.Mang0205
Maynarde117
ViBE58
Trikslyr48
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1121
Counter-Strike
PGL66
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 53
• HeavenSC 13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• mYiSmile133
• RayReign 15
• Azhi_Dahaki8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4834
• Scarra1171
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
9h 47m
OSC
11h 47m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
Online Event
1d 15h
RSL Revival
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
[ Show More ]
CrankTV Team League
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.