Balance Update #15 - February 22, 2013 - Page 19

On February 25 2013 16:10 ledarsi wrote:
The hellbat has indeed become a franken-unit. It always was weird, but now it is positively bizarre. Its HP changes when it transforms, and it becomes Biological, and it changes from 2 to 4 cargo size. It can be produced from a factory with an armory tech requirement, but it can be morphed from a hellion with a research from the factory tech lab. Its damage distribution and typing are completely different from the hellion's, and now only the hellion benefits from blue flame.

It's just ugly. I would infinitely prefer a second new and completely discrete unit instead of this transforming nonsense.

I get the impression Browder thinks Terran players loved the "transform-y" part of the Siege Tank, and now we have four units that "transform." The tank, the widow mine, the hellion, and the viking, All of which really need some work. They really just have no idea.

On February 25 2013 14:13 avilo wrote:


Siege was removed because of the mothership core in TvP.

On February 24 2013 17:33 aksfjh wrote:

They had a 50% winrate until the queen buff. When forced to go to the late game almost every game, GSL winrates dropped to the low 40s and mid 30s. There's a lot of Zerg talk that sounds like "ZOMG Terran air is SOOOOOO strong! Just max 200 on ravens, BCs, and vikings!" But it doesn't seem to work all too well at the pro level, otherwise we would see Terran do it to overcome their now abysmal chances in the matchup.

In contrast, even when ZvT didn't revolve around infestors, there wasn't a real need to adapt to the infestor playstyle. GSL winrates for Zerg were still pretty solid, with the occasional dip here and there.

I just don't buy that Terrans are somehow ignoring this supposed blatant lategame army strength while having extremely dismal numbers. Doesn't add up.

On February 25 2013 20:53 Evangelist wrote:


No, Avilo. Siege was removed because mech was basically defenseless early game against Toss pushes and has always been defenseless against said pushes. Removing siege means heavy siege tank defenses now work.

On February 25 2013 16:10 ledarsi wrote:
The hellbat has indeed become a franken-unit. It always was weird, but now it is positively bizarre. Its HP changes when it transforms, and it becomes Biological, and it changes from 2 to 4 cargo size. It can be produced from a factory with an armory tech requirement, but it can be morphed from a hellion with a research from the factory tech lab. Its damage distribution and typing are completely different from the hellion's, and now only the hellion benefits from blue flame.

It's just ugly. I would infinitely prefer a second new and completely discrete unit instead of this transforming nonsense.

I get the impression Browder thinks Terran players loved the "transform-y" part of the Siege Tank, and now we have four units that "transform." The tank, the widow mine, the hellion, and the viking, All of which really need some work. They really just have no idea.

On February 25 2013 23:08 Markwerf wrote:
In the meantime any chance they had for getting mech to work in TvP, which seemed to have been the entire goal of hots changes for T, are gone again.

On February 25 2013 19:54 Qikz wrote:
I'm not so much talking about you, but I've noticed constantly for weeks now people are claiming it's illogical :p

On February 25 2013 16:10 ledarsi wrote:
The hellbat has indeed become a franken-unit. It always was weird, but now it is positively bizarre. Its HP changes when it transforms, and it becomes Biological, and it changes from 2 to 4 cargo size. It can be produced from a factory with an armory tech requirement, but it can be morphed from a hellion with a research from the factory tech lab. Its damage distribution and typing are completely different from the hellion's, and now only the hellion benefits from blue flame.

It's just ugly. I would infinitely prefer a second new and completely discrete unit instead of this transforming nonsense.

I get the impression Browder thinks Terran players loved the "transform-y" part of the Siege Tank, and now we have four units that "transform." The tank, the widow mine, the hellion, and the viking, All of which really need some work. They really just have no idea.

On February 25 2013 20:53 Evangelist wrote:


No, Avilo. Siege was removed because mech was basically defenseless early game against Toss pushes and has always been defenseless against said pushes. Removing siege means heavy siege tank defenses now work.

On February 26 2013 02:18 Topin wrote:




i wonder where is the philosophy " easy for new players" in this unit. so much variables in one unit is dumb.

On February 26 2013 04:03 ledarsi wrote:
Here is what I propose for the Hellbat using minimal changes.

Make the Hellbat be produced by the Barracks as a completely separate unit from the Hellion, no transformation possible. Requires a tech lab. Remove Mechanical tag, make it fill 2 cargo size like a Marauder, and give it Stimpack. It is now a Firebat. Change armor type from Light to Armored and give it 1 base armor. Reduce its damage to something like 15 (+10 Light) with blue flame increasing its damage to 15 (+15 Light). If the unit is too strong with those numbers, reduce its damage. Terran would then have an Armored unit that does bonus damage to Light, which currently does not exist.

Terran now has two completely separate units; the Hellbat is an Armored Barracks unit that is Biological, and the Hellion is a Light Factory unit that is Mechanical. Thematically, they both have a fire-based attack, signifying it does bonus damage to Light armor. Blue flame applies to both with the same effect.