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On February 23 2013 04:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 04:46 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:35 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:31 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote:On February 23 2013 03:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 03:21 marcesr wrote:On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote:
Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet. Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable. SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well. This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation. It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly. It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts. Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst. Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k? By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion. Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing. If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
http://dathost.net/growth-in-starcraft-as-an-esport.php
I would speculate that IPL is in trouble because of the intense oversaturation of tournaments. I think IPL 5 was in November, around a week after Dreamhack. Not everyone is going to watch both tournaments, and as they are both run by different organisations that hurts both tournaments.
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On February 23 2013 04:53 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 04:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:46 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:35 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:31 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote:On February 23 2013 03:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 03:21 marcesr wrote:On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote:
Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet. Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable. SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well. This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation. It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly. It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts. Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst. Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k? By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion. Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing. If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up? http://dathost.net/growth-in-starcraft-as-an-esport.phpI would speculate that IPL is in trouble because of the intense oversaturation of tournaments. I think IPL 5 was in November, around a week after Dreamhack. Not everyone is going to watch both tournaments, and as they are both run by different organisations that hurts both tournaments.
I'm at work right now and that link won't load for me for some reason. However, isn't that just the chart that shows how more money is being offered by tournaments these days (specifically Gom and Blizzard)? That doesn't mean there are more actual viewers.
Forgive me if I'm wrong though, I can't get that link to even load.
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On February 23 2013 04:59 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 04:53 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:46 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:35 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:31 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote:On February 23 2013 03:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 03:21 marcesr wrote:
[quote]
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable. SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well. This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation. It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly. It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts. Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst. Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k? By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion. Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing. If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up? http://dathost.net/growth-in-starcraft-as-an-esport.phpI would speculate that IPL is in trouble because of the intense oversaturation of tournaments. I think IPL 5 was in November, around a week after Dreamhack. Not everyone is going to watch both tournaments, and as they are both run by different organisations that hurts both tournaments. I'm at work right now and that link won't load for me for some reason. However, isn't that just the chart that shows how more money is being offered by tournaments these days (specifically Gom and Blizzard)? That doesn't mean there are more actual viewers. Forgive me if I'm wrong though, I can't get that link to even load.
That's on there, but there's also graphs for how the viewer numbers have gotten higher for each premier tournament over time.
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I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off.
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On February 23 2013 05:02 Toss.Pro- wrote:
I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off.
I think he broke 10k viewers (or within one or two hundred of 10k) because he was commentating his games as he played.
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China6330 Posts
On February 23 2013 04:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 04:46 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:35 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:31 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote:On February 23 2013 03:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 03:21 marcesr wrote:On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote:
Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet. Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable. SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well. This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation. It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly. It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts. Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst. Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k? By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion. Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing. If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
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On February 23 2013 05:02 Toss.Pro- wrote:
I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off.
When he first started streaming he had numbers like that. That was a long time ago.
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On February 23 2013 05:04 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 04:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:46 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:35 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:31 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote:On February 23 2013 03:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 03:21 marcesr wrote:On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote:
Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet. Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable. SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well. This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation. It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly. It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts. Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst. Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k? By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion. Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing. If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up? You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
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On February 23 2013 05:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 05:02 Toss.Pro- wrote:
I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off. When he first started streaming he had numbers like that. That was a long time ago.
I was there, every day. It was closer to 7k, sometimes spiking higher for different reasons.
I will say that things in SC2 are looking volatile. It does seem like there is more bad than good news by a good margin. This is an issue for me because I love playing LoL, but it is so damned boring to watch.
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On February 23 2013 05:12 Toss.Pro- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 05:06 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 05:02 Toss.Pro- wrote:
I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off. When he first started streaming he had numbers like that. That was a long time ago. I was there, every day. It was closer to 7k, sometimes spiking higher for different reasons. I will say that things in SC2 are looking volatile. It does seem like there is more bad than good news by a good margin. This is an issue for me because I love playing LoL, but it is so damned boring to watch.
LoL has grown on me greatly. After watching OGN it clicked for me. Now I enjoy watching pretty much any pro LoL matches. But I strictly remember Idra having above 10k viewers regularly when he started streaming.
edit: And I believe I remember reading an article about how the most popular GSL ever, was season one when TLO played vs Hyperdub.
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Not saying you are wrong, only going by what I remember (I watched IdrA religiously because he did so great in the beginning, I saw potential in him)
There is a possibility that I will be switching to LoL completely in the future, but the games are so damned long.
I can't wait for Warcraft 4, WC3 was my favorite online game of all time, and Grubby my favorite player. I don't know that it will ever come...
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I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore.
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On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote:
I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore.
That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now)
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On February 23 2013 05:23 Toss.Pro- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote:
I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore. That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now)
The rate with which they've been butchering all their franchises...Not sure I'd even want them to make a WC4. Who knows, maybe they'd add a real money Heroes Altar that summons more powerful heroes or some shit.
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a lot of people seem to think that this is happening because IGN gave up on IPL. It was Ziff Davis, the very very recent IGN buyer, that is trying to maximize profits. They probably saw selling off IPL as a way to recover money from the sale. David Ting has been very positive and optimistic the entire time with IPL and he's a brilliant guy. I have faith
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On February 23 2013 05:23 Toss.Pro- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote:
I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore. That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now)
I completely agree... however, I think there will be a Warcraft 4 in the future. It will release just before they will announce WoW2.
PS: I really love SCII, so I am curious which RTS will win my heart ;-)
EDIT: On topic: I hope a financially healthy organisation (maybe a team or a tech-company) will pick up IPL, eg: SPL: Steelseries Pro League....or a brain fart: DreamHack US!
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On February 23 2013 06:23 Centipede wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 05:23 Toss.Pro- wrote:On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote:
I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore. That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now) I completely agree... however, I think there will be a Warcraft 4 in the future. It will release just before they will announce WoW2. PS: I really love SCII, so I am curious which RTS will win my heart ;-)
Well considering there is no WoW2 even announced, you will be waiting like 10+ years in that scenario.
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On February 23 2013 05:08 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 05:04 digmouse wrote:On February 23 2013 04:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:46 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:35 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:31 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote:On February 23 2013 03:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 03:21 marcesr wrote:
[quote]
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable. SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well. This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation. It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly. It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts. Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst. Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k? By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion. Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing. If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up? You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well. I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization.
If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
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On February 23 2013 06:28 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 06:23 Centipede wrote:On February 23 2013 05:23 Toss.Pro- wrote:On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote:
I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore. That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now) I completely agree... however, I think there will be a Warcraft 4 in the future. It will release just before they will announce WoW2. PS: I really love SCII, so I am curious which RTS will win my heart ;-) Well considering there is no WoW2 even announced, you will be waiting like 10+ years in that scenario.
..that might be true. However Blizzard did take a lot of time between announcing WoW and releasing it. So my hope is: in 2 years WC4 is announced, in 4 years WC4 is released and WoW2 will be announced......(and it will take another 3 years before WoW2 will be released).
but hey, one can hope right ;-)
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On February 23 2013 06:49 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 05:08 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 05:04 digmouse wrote:On February 23 2013 04:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:46 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:35 kollin wrote:On February 23 2013 04:31 AnomalySC2 wrote:On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote:On February 23 2013 03:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:
[quote]
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well. This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation. It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly. It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts. Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst. Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k? By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion. Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing. If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up? You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well. I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though. There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization. If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
So you're saying they want to get rid of IPL because they want to focus on media instead of organizing events. So why did they pick up IPL in the first place? If it was profitable enough then they wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Right now there are only 440 viewers for IGNProLeague. Is that enough to sustain the organization? I think not....
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EPT
