Ziff Davis, the owner of IGN (and a bunch of other stuff), is apparently not doing so well - they're shutting down some of their other gaming sites, laying off some people, and most importantly to SC2, they want to sell the IPL.
As a result of our decision to focus on our core brands, we are: ... · Actively engaged with parties interested in acquiring IPL. IGN's role going forward will be to broadcast and cover a variety of eSports events;
The statement does imply that there are "parties" already interested in buying IPL, which is a good sign. Hopefully whoever buys it will put as much or more effort into it than IGN did.
EDIT: From Kevin Knocke (IPL caster):
Hey everyone! Don't worry about us. ^__^ We're all still together and making content, and you'll know much more from us soon.
P.S. The speculation in this thread is hilarious to me. :D Don't fret, everyone.
I just hope things work out for Kevin and Robin - I've really grown to like those two. And, of course, I hope IPL doesn't drop in quality either. It's reguarly been one of the best tournaments of the year since IPL3, and it'd be a damn shame if that changed.
Hmm, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on this as being a negative thing. We're not sure how transactions will go just yet. For all we know IPL could end up in just as good of hands, or perhaps even better if the right people buy it.
We'll really just need to wait and see since this is more administrative; unless of course, they just don't sell it to the right people and everything falls apart - but I don't see that happening ~
I don't see gomtv buying IPL, unless they wanted to expand and make it like the real GSL of the west with their own production and casters. Players would be there live and in person and it could be broadcasted at NA-friendly hours, maybe a league more for good foreigners than Koreans. Polt could play in it.
Oh no... I hope IPL is able to survive this. The support for IPL seems strong enough to warrant it to survive temporarily, but I'm concerned about the long-term once a full-time sponsor or "parent" company isn't around to support it. Maybe Gom or MLG could buy parts of it and make either GSL America, or expand the MLG empire.
On February 22 2013 05:09 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote: LOL expected news. sc2 does not have a successful business model. early profits soon wane into bankruptcy
Are you saying IPL made IGN go bankrupt, or am I misunderstanding? Because that would be "LOL"-worthy indeed.
On February 22 2013 05:06 Dodgin wrote: I don't see gomtv buying IPL, unless they wanted to expand and make it like the real GSL of the west with their own production and casters. Players would be there live and in person and it could be broadcasted at NA-friendly hours, maybe a league more for good foreigners than Koreans. Polt could play in it.
Sounds pretty good but it will never happen.
Got it, fionn to buy IPL rename to international polt league a tournament for the sole purpose of keeping polt in pro gaming as he studies in America.
I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
Perhaps someone with an existing presence elsewhere looking to expand into new markets with an established product?
On February 22 2013 05:23 Bagration wrote: So does this mean that IPL is unprofitable, or simply not profitable enough to become part of the leaner IGN?
Esports itself isn't profitable. IGN was losing tons of money every IPL, but it was seen as marketing dollars basically. Riot loses tons of money on their esports stuff, but they spend that money again for marketing.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
Kespa would fully switch to LoL before ever going back to bw.
now we're SC2-focused here, but what about LoL and FGC? Maybe SC2 isn't as big as it used to be but those other games and generes may have some more potential
Yeah, just forget about the other e-sports titles IPL does. It's all because of Starcraft 2, right?
Also, can't wait for the "esports is dying D: D: D:!!!" comments for the next week.
IPL will sell and will be fine. IGN says they are covering e-sports events anyways, dont see why they'd sell but I guess downsize as much as possible for the biggest profit.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
False, source, and false (ridiculously false actually since GOM moved to twitch - where do you come up with this shit?).
WoW went through this phase too where people had to come into every WoW thread and tell us that it was dead, like they thought we needed a public service announcement. It took 2-3 years but eventually those people found a way to stop crying and move on with their lives and most threads now go by without somebody calling it dead every 4 posts.
There are too many teams and too many tournaments and too many Korean ESF players. We're losing some of each and will continue to lose some of each, and nothing of value will be lost. IF IPL dies here (by no means a certainty), then that will be sad, but we'll still have literally 20+ tournaments each year. The scene is fine and will be fine, especially with HotS in 3 weeks.
On February 22 2013 05:23 Bagration wrote: So does this mean that IPL is unprofitable, or simply not profitable enough to become part of the leaner IGN?
IGN is a boat with a lot of holes, so they're dumping all the cargo except the absolute best and most mainstream cargo so that they can keep the boat afloat.
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
MLG could always buy it and squash it.
It doesn't seem like IPL will continue if they don't find a buyer anyways.
I think it's a good thing. Less competition for the other tournaments gives them more viewers.
MLG/NASL/IEM/HOMESTORY/DREAMHACK/IRONSQUID/GSL/BLIZZARDS TOURNAMENTS/KESPA PROLEAGUE AND INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE/TEXAS LONE STAR/ OCCASIONAL RED BULL BATTLEGROUNDS/WCG and numerous more that i cant mention of the top of my head like that german tournament and france tournament which had stephano competing in
Scene is still doing good, Loosing ipl would be the biggest blow to the american scene to be honest. Unless blizzard or mlg pick up the mantel for developing the usa scene, I think thats it, We might have idra make a decent performance now and then but who else?
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
Gom just got a new studio in a more expensive part of Seoul. They're doing pretty fine. Also MLG doesn't seem like they'll be shutting down anytime soon. Also IPL is not ending, it's being sold.
On February 22 2013 05:35 ACrow wrote: Hope they find a good new owner that keeps it running. IPL has very good production and produces so much good content...
I'll miss the regular weekday tournaments like IPTL and Fight Club. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment from those and they regularly produce high-level play. Though the loss of a LAN event like IPL would be really sad, I think I'd miss IPTL/FC more.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
Gom just got a new studio in a more expensive part of Seoul. They're doing pretty fine. Also MLG doesn't seem like they'll be shutting down anytime soon. Also IPL is not ending, it's being sold.
dude you can basically say its coming to an end. They are just trying to petty coat this stuff like everything will be alright. Nobody is going to buy IPL........ I can think of only 1 organisation that has the funds to buy it if they choose to, and that is AZUBU . I dunno what other big companies are interested in ESPORTS to sponsor such an event. Ipl spends over 1 million dollars per event.. Thats it for ipl. I wont get your hopes up
Very interested to see where this goes. Doesn't look super great for IPL, but you never know what can happen! Hopin for the best, but yeah . . . we'll be fine regardless of what happens to IPL, it's all right guys.
On February 22 2013 05:33 johnny123 wrote: well we still have
MLG/NASL/IEM/HOMESTORY/DREAMHACK/IRONSQUID/GSL/BLIZZARDS TOURNAMENTS/KESPA PROLEAGUE AND INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE/TEXAS LONE STAR/ OCCASIONAL RED BULL BATTLEGROUNDS/WCG and numerous more that i cant mention of the top of my head like that german tournament and france tournament which had stephano competing in
Scene is still doing good, Loosing ipl would be the biggest blow to the american scene to be honest. Unless blizzard or mlg pick up the mantel for developing the usa scene, I think thats it, We might have idra make a decent performance now and then but who else?
man you cant say : we still have iem , say we still have IEM championship IEM brasil IEM cologne etc . cuz you are saying 1 tournament like is once a year and manye of them are 3-4-5 times a year . you missed eswc and asus rog .
On February 22 2013 04:58 Tsubbi wrote: mrchae is gonna buy ipl imho
That would actually be pretty interesting. Especially if they did something similar to a European event then used those as satellite events to feed a couple of seeds into the GSL Code A or something. That would kind of be one step closer to the "Global System" that everyone seems to think would be good but isn't really feasible. It would probably take someone like GSL or KeSPA doing something like buying leagues from other countries to expand their reach and become that entity rather than trying to create a merger of sorts with other organizations.
it is bound to happen, sc2 is too bloated right now. Somebody will have to go
Reality checked in, at the end of the day only a few (1-3) organization will remain intact. And when that happens is when starcraft as a whole scene may actually grow
I think people are missing something here... eSports != SC2. There are other games besides SC2. Is SC2 by itself viable as an eSport? Things aren't looking so hot with regards to that, though I always hope for that to change. LoL is viable as a standalone game right now, but that could be just because Riot is pumping lots of money into it. Maybe (and just maybe) with multiple games (LoL, SC2, fighting game, etc.) put together you can have one balance the other when one is down while the other is hot, and you can always swap in newer and fresher games. Of course MLG has been doing that, and I'm not sure about their financial performance... regardless, my point still stands, eSports != SC2.
On February 22 2013 05:33 johnny123 wrote: well we still have
MLG/NASL/IEM/HOMESTORY/DREAMHACK/IRONSQUID/GSL/BLIZZARDS TOURNAMENTS/KESPA PROLEAGUE AND INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE/TEXAS LONE STAR/ OCCASIONAL RED BULL BATTLEGROUNDS/WCG and numerous more that i cant mention of the top of my head like that german tournament and france tournament which had stephano competing in
Scene is still doing good, Loosing ipl would be the biggest blow to the american scene to be honest. Unless blizzard or mlg pick up the mantel for developing the usa scene, I think thats it, We might have idra make a decent performance now and then but who else?
man you cant say : we still have iem , say we still have IEM championship IEM brasil IEM cologne etc . cuz you are saying 1 tournament like is once a year and manye of them are 3-4-5 times a year . you missed eswc and asus rog .
What? Do you also want him to list GSL 2013 Season 1, GSL 2013 Season 2, GSL 2013 Season 3, GSL 2013 Season 4, all the MLG tournaments each year, all the Dreamhacks every year, etc, etc? :s.
It's a shame they're selling it, the actual live tournament is pretty good (I couldn't care less about the rest of it though, or their team league, KOTH etc).
Still, there's tons of tournaments going, and even if a buyer isn't found and we have no more IPLs it isn't that big a deal by itself IMO.
Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
I know this is primarily a Starcraft website and Dota 2 is not in the major tours but you figure people would remember that very few esports events are sc2-only.
I wish we could have e-sports news without the retards climbing out from under their rocks and spouting nonsense... The only dying happening here is braincells in brains that are already pretty badly endowed to begin with, tbh.
Anyway, I wonder who is bidding for IPL. Really one of my favourite tournaments and I don't think whoever buys it will be sad about their purchase.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
I know this is primarily a Starcraft website and Dota 2 is not in the major tours but you figure people would remember that very few esports events are sc2-only.
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
Because it won't be IPL anymore - they'll rename it whatever they want, and whatever IGN is asking for it is probably less than what it would cost to build up an equivalent eSports league from scratch.
Also, can all of the BW trolls/eSports-is-dying trolls/idiots in general please go away? Anyone who actually bothered to read the article and has basic reading comprehension would know that this has nothing to do with SC2 "dying", it's because IGN is doing badly overall and they're trying to shrink.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
and your source is? oh wait..... you don't have one because this is a load of bs. people like you make me laugh.
It's an observation. No need for facts. MLG was losing a ton of money and had to raise additional millions from investors. They had a thread about this in 2012. They made a risky investment by reaching some kind of deal with Kespa to get exclusive players' rights hoping to generate big bucks. Don't think that's going anywhere considering the amount of money they're spending on players' airplane tickets and hotel for the next event. You don't have to be very smart to know that GOM is losing foreign subscribers compare to the early days of 2010 and early 2011. They're moving to a new place and doing "MORE ESPORTS". I don't think they can survive just on SC2 alone. Sometimes you have to jump ship to survive.
I'm not surprised at all by this. The new owner of IGN is looking to make money off what he bought, IPL isn't making money. But what holds good for IPL is that instead of just shutting IPL down, he think's he can actually sell it, while he just shut down Gamespy and 1UP.
Doesn't mean it will end well though. It is incredibly difficult to pull off what IPL is doing, and when your main income of money is looking to sell you, that is quite troublesome, because who is going to buy you? Either way there are going to be some major changes for IPL.
On February 22 2013 05:23 Bagration wrote: So does this mean that IPL is unprofitable, or simply not profitable enough to become part of the leaner IGN?
The owner of IGN only wants the news coverage of eSports and video games. Thats why GameSpy and others are getting sold off as well.
IPL should be fine, especially with all of the coverage it was given for IPL5.
EDIT: BY THE WAY, IPL doesn't only do SC2, they do fighting games and LoL as well. So saying that IPL is going with the 'dying SC2 scene' is not thinking about the big picture.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL was never fully intended to be a money-maker, part of it was to promote IGN, its eSports coverage, and the rest of its site. That's why IPL has basically no sponsors. If you bothered to read the news story you would see that IGN is stopping basically all of its advertising, and IPL is probably included under that.
SC2 is over saturated not because of big events like IPL, but everything in between. Hopefully IPL finds a way to persist and a lot of the little things die down. Showmatches, etc..
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
and your source is? oh wait..... you don't have one because this is a load of bs. people like you make me laugh.
It's an observation. No need for facts. MLG was losing a ton of money and had to raise additional millions from investors. They had a thread about this in 2012. They made a risky investment by reaching some kind of deal with Kespa to get exclusive players' rights hoping to generate big bucks. Don't think that's going anywhere considering the amount of money they're spending on players' airplane tickets and hotel for the next event. You don't have to be very smart to know that GOM is losing foreign subscribers compare to the early days of 2010 and early 2011. They're moving to a new place and doing "MORE ESPORTS". I don't think they can survive just on SC2 alone. Sometimes you have to jump ship to survive.
Did you see the "SCII Growth" infographic that was posted on TL a few days ago? You should take a look, it was very informative.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
except IPL isnt just sc2. Its LoL, fighting games and shootmania. IGN was making a long term investment into esports with IPL. Then they got sold. Ziff Davis doesnt want to make that investment, but he does see money in it, which is why he is trying to sell it, rather than close it like Gamespy and 1UP
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
and your source is? oh wait..... you don't have one because this is a load of bs. people like you make me laugh.
It's an observation. No need for facts. MLG was losing a ton of money and had to raise additional millions from investors. They had a thread about this in 2012. They made a risky investment by reaching some kind of deal with Kespa to get exclusive players' rights hoping to generate big bucks. Don't think that's going anywhere considering the amount of money they're spending on players' airplane tickets and hotel for the next event. You don't have to be very smart to know that GOM is losing foreign subscribers compare to the early days of 2010 and early 2011. They're moving to a new place and doing "MORE ESPORTS". I don't think they can survive just on SC2 alone. Sometimes you have to jump ship to survive.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
No, but do you see them dropping only the SC2 division and leaving LoL?
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
No, but do you see them dropping only the SC2 division and leaving LoL?
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
No, but do you see them dropping only the SC2 division and leaving LoL?
If I'm understanding this correctly, IGN is dropping all of it.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
and your source is? oh wait..... you don't have one because this is a load of bs. people like you make me laugh.
It's an observation. No need for facts. MLG was losing a ton of money and had to raise additional millions from investors. They had a thread about this in 2012. They made a risky investment by reaching some kind of deal with Kespa to get exclusive players' rights hoping to generate big bucks. Don't think that's going anywhere considering the amount of money they're spending on players' airplane tickets and hotel for the next event. You don't have to be very smart to know that GOM is losing foreign subscribers compare to the early days of 2010 and early 2011. They're moving to a new place and doing "MORE ESPORTS". I don't think they can survive just on SC2 alone. Sometimes you have to jump ship to survive.
GOM is moving to a better studio, as well as increasing their potential to make money. Unlike most of the SC2 community, they aren't elitist dicks who don't want any game apart from Starcraft to have success. They probably are doing well enough from SC2 that they can upgrade their studio while expanding into other esports, which is only good.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
No, but do you see them dropping only the SC2 division and leaving LoL?
No I don't, but that has nothing to do with what you originally stated. Your premise that It's because sc2 is doing poorly that they are selling IPL doesn't hold any weight when you consider the fact that they also do the most popular e-sports game. If they decided to drop sc2 and do LoL only then I would agree with you.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
No, but do you see them dropping only the SC2 division and leaving LoL?
what?
I'm saying no, I don't think LoL is dying. But I also don't see IGN dropping just the sc2 division from IPL. So they just drop the entire thing.
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
No, but do you see them dropping only the SC2 division and leaving LoL?
what?
I'm saying no, I don't think LoL is dying. But I also don't see IGN dropping just the sc2 division from IPL. So they just drop the entire thing.
If it was just "SC2 dying", as you claimed, IPL would just drop SC2 and keep its other events that are making money (presumably LoL, possibly others). But it's not doing that... therefore IGN is selling IPL for other reasons (which, again, you could easily tell if you had actually read the article)
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
SC2 is the 17th played game in pc bangs with even BW being played as much in PC bangs with no proffesional scene at all. There will be no "bw 2.0" because SC2 won't be as popular in SK like ever.
The important things to take away from the announcement:
1. Ziff-Davis sucks. They bought IGN on February 4th, 2013. They also own a number of geek/tech related properties, some based on former magazines. To quote a press release on the acquisition, "All of these properties predominantly attract males 18-34, and the group’s advertisers will now have access to a larger audience and a broader array of premium inventory." Do you see a problem with this, considering the demographics of actual game players? (Hint - it's not males 18-34 anymore.) Ziff-Davis is morphing towards advertising/marketing solely, and the company that bought Ziff-Davis (j2) boasts of 19 years of profitability. 2. IPL is and always has been a loss-leader for IGN - it's a marketing tool, and a really good one. So good, and with such brand recognition in the eSports sphere, that rather than just fire everyone and close it down, they feel it has enough value to attempt to sell the brand to another entity. And - THERE IS INTEREST IN BUYING IT, from at least one party. Whether or not the events themselves are profitable (and I think they have steadily improved in that respect) the intellectual property tied to the IPL brand (as well as its production capabilities, human capital, etc) would present a net positive to a buyer.
Kevin does not need to sell his pajamas for food yet. Companies buy and sell chunks of themselves all the time, and the most important thing of this entire mess is that J2/Ziff-Davis doesn't want to run tournaments (it's not in their core business) but think that IPL is valuable enough that they can sell it AND MAKE MONEY DOING IT. IPL is a valuable name and brand in eSports... which, in itself, is an important indicator that NO, ESPORTS IS NOT DYING.
I like how everyone is blaming SC2 and SC2's events for causing this when IPL does a TON of LoL stuff too, and some Shootmania stuff, and also recently acquired permission to stream particular fighting games as well.
But oh no, it's poor SC2's fault. Lets forget the fact that LoL is as big as ever and they are one of the leading sources of SM content, SC2's "struggling" (which it's kinda not, anyway) and "over saturation" (which LoL is just as much, if not more so) is what's causing all of the problems.
Seriously if SC2 specifically was causing IPL problems they'd sooner cut back on their SC2 events/broadcasts or drop that entirely, not sell off IPL.
On February 22 2013 06:34 MCXD wrote: I like how everyone is blaming SC2 and SC2's events for causing this when IPL actually does a TON of LoL stuff too, and some Shootmania stuff, and also recently acquired permission to stream particular fighting games as well.
People will find "evidence" in anything to support their misguided views.
Well even if SC2 scene is decreasing, it is a very good thing. As it stands now, it is bloated and spread thin not gathering viewership because of oversaturation. However, SC2 dying is pretty much a joke. There arent anything similar in the RTS market apart from Lol/Dota, which arent purely RTS either. SC2 will live on with re-focus on the tournaments that actually are the best, and it is only for the better.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
and your source is? oh wait..... you don't have one because this is a load of bs. people like you make me laugh.
It's an observation. No need for facts. MLG was losing a ton of money and had to raise additional millions from investors. They had a thread about this in 2012. They made a risky investment by reaching some kind of deal with Kespa to get exclusive players' rights hoping to generate big bucks. Don't think that's going anywhere considering the amount of money they're spending on players' airplane tickets and hotel for the next event. You don't have to be very smart to know that GOM is losing foreign subscribers compare to the early days of 2010 and early 2011. They're moving to a new place and doing "MORE ESPORTS". I don't think they can survive just on SC2 alone. Sometimes you have to jump ship to survive.
On February 22 2013 06:39 TeeTS wrote: I find it very surprisingly how well informed half of the TL seems to be about buisness numbers of various organisations.
On February 22 2013 06:39 TeeTS wrote: I find it very surprisingly how well informed half of the TL seems to be about buisness numbers of various organisations.
I see no need for anyone to buy it the IPL. Who wants to see HUGE SC2 tournaments every weekend, like it was last year?! It was borderline boring and there was no time/room for hype to come up. With a whole tournament gone the year becomes more open again. Hardcore fans can still watch streams/online cups/vods all the time and the "normal" fans will start marking dates in the calendar again. There are still 2 big american organisations (MLG + NASL), 2 big european organisations (ESL + Dreamhack) and the 2 korean ones (GSL/GSTL + Proleague). That`s more than enough for the actual size of the sc2 scene.
On February 22 2013 06:39 TeeTS wrote: I find it very surprisingly how well informed half of the TL seems to be about buisness numbers of various organisations.
And the balance in HotS!
And nada's body.
especially nada's body... everytime I watch bw part of TL the thread about nadas body is among the top viewed pretty soon I feel like I have no choice but to actually check it out^^
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
LoL, shootmania and SC2 dead there mystery solved I welcome our doto overlords.
Goms foreign subscription viewer base is dropping, but from what I've gathered they still pull lots of eyes for GSL. They have a TV deal for Code S/Code S reruns, the korean stream is full of adverts and the move in venue is probably to facilitate 'more' esports because OGN can't show everything.
Will there be LoL? Good chance. Will there be Fifa online 3, sudden attack, Syphers and that DOTA2 clone they have knocking around? Probably. I'm sure once the interview with Mr. Chae from choson daily comes out, we will get to know more (Saw him being interviewed in Cafe Bene).
A change in ownership could be a very good thing. They help sell rooms at the cosmopolitan hotel, and they do a fucking good job of it. I feel they're making too much content, and a streamlined system will probably help boost the brand. Who will take it? Who knows
On February 22 2013 05:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Lol I love how people go back to babbling about SC2 dying when all that's happening is IGN's owner isn't doing well financially overall and has to sell stuff, let people go etc. and one of them happens to be IPL. It ain't got shit to do with SC2 dying.
If SC2 wasn't dying, and in fact was growing, then IPL would be something IGN makes profit off of and they wouldn't sell it. Your post makes the exact opposite of sense.
IPL does League of Legends, does this also mean that League of Legends is dying?
LoL, shootmania and SC2 dead there mystery solved I welcome our doto overlords.
Was about to point this is as well to all the SC2 destiny wannabies, IPL has other games than just SC2, if it was SC2 dying then they would just stop broadcasting that game and focus on the others they have. The reason why IGN is selling IPL is because they are doing terrible overall and need to sort out their business so they can become profitable again.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
SC2 is the 17th played game in pc bangs with even BW being played as much in PC bangs with no proffesional scene at all. There will be no "bw 2.0" because SC2 won't be as popular in SK like ever.
SC2 was never as big as BW in SK. Koreans have the best taste when it comes to competitive gaming.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
What lol
That would be awesome imo. Blizz should rerelease BW as a free to play browser game with a fully functioning ladder system and improved netcode/latency. That would be the best for esports imo. Basically just give it the Quake Live treatment.
Well, if there is anything that will force MLG/NASL/IPL to actually do like they promised and form a "SC2 scene for North America," maybe it's this. Whoever buys IPL has the chance to do what they promised, oh, two years ago and make a NA tournament the level of GSL with North American players.
Maybe you can read the bitterness between my words, but those tournaments promised us they wouldn't just become Koreans stomping on North Americans, that we would have a scene of our own like Korea and Europe have. What'd they do? NASL especially told us to fuck off within what, the first season?
The posts on the front page of Mr. Chae buying IPL and making it a North American, GSL-esque tournament would be great. It'd be sad that it took a Korean business man to come in and do what American business men have promised us for three years, but it'd just prove that Mr. Chae knows what the fuck is going on and how to soothe my bleeding, rage-ridden nerd heart.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
What lol
That would be awesome imo. Blizz should rerelease BW as a free to play browser game with a fully functioning ladder system and improved netcode/latency. That would be the best for esports imo. Basically just give it the Quake Live treatment.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
What lol
That would be awesome imo. Blizz should rerelease BW as a free to play browser game with a fully functioning ladder system and improved netcode/latency. That would be the best for esports imo. Basically just give it the Quake Live treatment.
yeah its done wonders for Quake.....
It injected a bit of life into the game. But I think BW is a much higher level compared to Quake.....It's still a very popular game in SK, much more so than SC2.
On February 22 2013 04:57 Zealously wrote: I just hope things work out for Kevin and Robin - I've really grown to like those two. And, of course, I hope IPL doesn't drop in quality either. It's reguarly been one of the best tournaments of the year since IPL3, and it'd be a damn shame if that changed.
Why? Robin is, objectively, probably the worst caster to hit the scene. People with speech impediments or exceptionally poor English (SNM, Robin, Axslav) should not be hired into a profession where the service you are providing is your voice.
A bit more on topic, I am speculating that MLG probably wants to buy out IPL so that it can have all of the major NA assets on lockdown. Although to be fair, you aren't buying much more than the brand name, because they don't seem to have many physical assets or talent assets. It would be good for the scene in the sense that it would decrease saturation (as instead of three major NA broadcasts competing, it would decrease to only two), but then there is the risk of MLG becoming "too big."
Does anyone know what the purpose of IPL actually was for IGN? I'm asking because they have tournaments for allot of games and they don't really seem to focus on actual profit from any of them. Was it for profit or just as marketing to attract more people to their online gaming division at IGN?
The optimist in me says this isn't all bad. The scene is just being 'streamlined' perhaps. Fewer events but more emphasis on the ones that weather the storm leading to more epic and successful events both in terms of quality and profit.
I am surprised by the number of economists in the community with in-depth insight of the IPL's revenue flow and profit margins. Also the number of strategic business people who understand completely how IPL fit into IGN's plans.
IPL is done like dinner. The only reason they don't close it down "yesterday" is due to agreements and contracts they've already signed. This "sale" is just a way to slither out of the agreements they are already in.
The ticket prices are too low and the events are too long to make money.
To be honest, a little consolidation would be good for the industry on the whole.
I just hope that whoever buys IPL has esports interest at heart and is not looking at it from a "let's use this primarily as a marketing tool for games" standpoint, which was the road IPL seemed to be going down.
On February 22 2013 07:49 Chill wrote: Loved the IPL. The big lesson here is that businesses need to be profitable. You can't run on charity fumes forever.
David Ting has said in multiple interviews that IPL is profitable... so unless you think he's entirely bullshitting?
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
MLG could always buy it and squash it.
Red Bull could buy it and kind of merge IPL with Battlegrounds.
On February 22 2013 07:49 Chill wrote: Loved the IPL. The big lesson here is that businesses need to be profitable. You can't run on charity fumes forever.
David Ting has said in multiple interviews that IPL is profitable... so unless you think he's entirely bullshitting?
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
MLG could always buy it and squash it.
Red Bull could buy it and kind of merge IPL with Battlegrounds.
On February 22 2013 07:49 Chill wrote: Loved the IPL. The big lesson here is that businesses need to be profitable. You can't run on charity fumes forever.
David Ting has said in multiple interviews that IPL is profitable... so unless you think he's entirely bullshitting?
On February 22 2013 07:42 SunDevil wrote: I am surprised by the number of economists in the community with in-depth insight of the IPL's revenue flow and profit margins. Also the number of strategic business people who understand completely how IPL fit into IGN's plans.
You're quite impressive yourself, thank you for teaching us all that "revenue flow" is a term.
I never really saw how IPL was profitable or sustainable. They certainly don't bring in enough viewership to warrant these big Vegas tournaments and their stream viewer counts have been dwindling in recent times due to their weak casting crew. I think SC2 was in a bit of a bubble anyway because of all the content available but with too small of a target audience.
IPL is my favorite tournament organization right now. Polished, regular content and wonderful casters, especially Kevin.
I hope IPL doesn't go under, but if it does the casters and production at IPL should be picked up by other organizations- they produce very high quality content.
On February 22 2013 07:49 Chill wrote: Loved the IPL. The big lesson here is that businesses need to be profitable. You can't run on charity fumes forever.
David Ting has said in multiple interviews that IPL is profitable... so unless you think he's entirely bullshitting?
IGN Pro League's founder, David Ting, recently stated that with this past year's IPL events the company had lost money
On the event. As in IPL5. Not overall. IPL4 was break even/profitable as an event.
Last year IPL lost money. Thats not being profitable. You can't have one event be profitable and then claim IPL is profitable, which your original post said. You can't say David Ting has said IPL is profitable when I find a story saying the opposite and that they don't expect to be profitable until year 5.
Please someone make sure IPL will be just as awesome! God I wish I was done with school. When I start earning money I am going to donate as much as I can with my doctor salary. I don't give a shit about my own wealth. I just want my children and next generations to experience something I was not able to.
What is the "product" anyways? It's not like you're buying IP rights to their tournament/league structure. You're just buying a name, but the only name(s) that the community generally cares about are those of the players. The money it would cost to "buy ipl" would be better put into just building your own tournament/league.
The only benefit I can think of is that sponsors might be more willing to jump on board with an established tournament (albeit one that just sold out because they were turning a loss....).
Very Interesting new. TBH i saw this coming with all the revenue IPL put out and not enough is coming back in. Shame i hope somebody buys from them and makes it better
IPL is hardly a "brand" that will sell for all that much
If any company wanted to invest with their own money and get sponsors abroad they can easily name their tournament anything they wanted, not like IPL was doing great as viewership for SC2 has been on a decline for the past 2 years.
IPL aside - the bigger picture that IGN has financial problems is not based on IPL, and that's something that's bad for gaming in general, so I'm pretty saddened to hear it.
It's too bad SC2 doesn't have the viewership that LoL currently enjoys. Otherwise Blizz could take the reins and run something like the LCS right now and offer quality games throughout a season. It's a really cool model but I don't see it viable without a large company running it and SC2 viewing numbers are unfortunately sad compared to League.
I think there is an oversaturation of pros and sponsorship in SC2 and its not seeing the returns of investment at all.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
Well that's a pretty bleak picture.
Its also based on exactly nothing
Yep just another no body with not a single idea of the inner working of E-Sports. Actually I should say SC2 since that person does not even seem to know IPL carried more games than SC2.
Please everyone, trust the words of people that know the inner workings, not the people that have no clue.
I love all of the "IGN has money problems" and that's why this is happening. Has nothing to do with IGN being bought by a digital media company that is in turn owned by a fairly profitable parent company. Obviously, when they say they're streamlining and refocusing, that absolutely must be complete and total bullshit that means they are hemorrhaging money out of all orifices, Kibblez has been peeing on the carpet, Kevin is rampaging and breaking furniture, Robin is setting things on fire, Frank has finally gone totally catatonic, and they are just trying to cover the deposit on the offices.
This decision couldn't possibly have to do with top-down directives from parent companies that focus on media coverage, reporting, and magazine style journalism, might decide to focus on a smaller footprint with a bigger impact on their core demographic. The sale of IPL is exactly one sentence - and is completely in line with their stated goal.
One sentence which states "Actively engaged with parties interested in acquiring IPL. IGN's role going forward will be to broadcast and cover a variety of eSports events" and it becomes "IPL IS GOING TO DIE! ESPORTS IS DOOMED!!"
Feh. The sky is falling. Video evidence in the Russian Meteorite thread.
On February 22 2013 05:06 Dodgin wrote: I don't see gomtv buying IPL, unless they wanted to expand and make it like the real GSL of the west with their own production and casters. Players would be there live and in person and it could be broadcasted at NA-friendly hours, maybe a league more for good foreigners than Koreans. Polt could play in it.
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
MLG could always buy it and squash it.
Or they could not buy it and not have to worry about it?
On February 22 2013 05:23 Bagration wrote: So does this mean that IPL is unprofitable, or simply not profitable enough to become part of the leaner IGN?
Esports itself isn't profitable. IGN was losing tons of money every IPL, but it was seen as marketing dollars basically. Riot loses tons of money on their esports stuff, but they spend that money again for marketing.
Christ the level of stupidity in some of the comments here is ridiculous.
I can't see IPL being bought, there is already too many tournaments in the SC2 calander and I don't feel anyone would buy it just for the LoL or fighting games side.
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
MLG could always buy it and squash it.
Or they could not buy it and not have to worry about it?
Sounds wiser. Anyway, what do you exactly get by purchasing IPL ?
On February 22 2013 09:29 felisconcolori wrote: I love all of the "IGN has money problems" and that's why this is happening. Has nothing to do with IGN being bought by a digital media company that is in turn owned by a fairly profitable parent company. Obviously, when they say they're streamlining and refocusing, that absolutely must be complete and total bullshit that means they are hemorrhaging money out of all orifices, Kibblez has been peeing on the carpet, Kevin is rampaging and breaking furniture, Robin is setting things on fire, Frank has finally gone totally catatonic, and they are just trying to cover the deposit on the offices.
This decision couldn't possibly have to do with top-down directives from parent companies that focus on media coverage, reporting, and magazine style journalism, might decide to focus on a smaller footprint with a bigger impact on their core demographic. The sale of IPL is exactly one sentence - and is completely in line with their stated goal.
One sentence which states "Actively engaged with parties interested in acquiring IPL. IGN's role going forward will be to broadcast and cover a variety of eSports events" and it becomes "IPL IS GOING TO DIE! ESPORTS IS DOOMED!!"
Feh. The sky is falling. Video evidence in the Russian Meteorite thread.
One thing I would keep in mind (i dont really care for this god-awful debate one way or another) is just that IGN was sold at an enormous loss from News Corporation - they just wanted to get rid of it and cut costs.
On February 22 2013 09:18 Gravesong wrote: It's too bad SC2 doesn't have the viewership that LoL currently enjoys. Otherwise Blizz could take the reins and run something like the LCS right now and offer quality games throughout a season. It's a really cool model but I don't see it viable without a large company running it and SC2 viewing numbers are unfortunately sad compared to League.
I think there is an oversaturation of pros and sponsorship in SC2 and its not seeing the returns of investment at all.
LCS took the GSL model of a long season in a live studio with every match broadcasted, we already have the equivalent and have had it for the past 3 years.
Sounds like everyone needs to blow up IPL6 and make it the biggest, most watched, most hyped, ESPORTS tournament in history! I bet If everyone spent their free time making cheerfuls, and travel plans for Vegas, we might really accomplish something. Maybe somebody with real money will take notice and a we'll have an even better tournament series next year!
It only takes a few hundred nerds, balling out of control in a Vegas hotel lobby,(casino,elevator,etc), and yelling about Starcraft to make some mega rich guy stop and go hey, what's that guy so excited about?
On February 22 2013 08:40 MrSnibbles wrote: IPL just need to let Robin cast more, more Robin, more viewers, mo money.
This business formula is flawed. Online advertisement values almost nothing. People need to fix this formula and find new, innovative ways to make money and fund their organizations.
Does this mean the CatsPajamas King of the Hill will return? (also his epic beard?)
Bad news for eSports this day..... i hope whoever these "parties" are will buy IGN and save the IPL and the SC2 scene. Sympathy to those who lost their jobs and income.
Hopefully this turns out well for all involved, including the casters and behind the scenes people.
I feel like some contraction is probably natural in the marketplace. Hopefully at least some tournaments will start becoming profitable in the near future. Maybe more Blizz involvement?
Hmm, this isn't a big deal to me. Now IGN will focus and do a better job as IGN, hoping to keep a bunch of viewers without spending the money on the events. A business like IGN is on the down anyways at a time like this, they need to do w/e they can to survive.
What I'm worried about is the missing prize money. I really hope that more smaller tournaments pop up in NA to help support aspiring pro players make a decent living.
I'm actually a little glad that IPL is going down though. Even though it was awesome to have a huge event that has everyone, I feel that whole want/need needs to get outgrown. Areas need to focus on building their own pro scenes. Korea will always be self sustaining. They don't need the foreign world to keep professional SC2, but the international scene is too busy giving money to a ton of Koreans to help sustain their own pro players.
Less huge tournaments with everyone, (because huge tournaments cost a fuck ton more money for everyone) and more smaller tournaments to support pro players so the game stays alive!!!
On February 22 2013 09:18 Gravesong wrote: It's too bad SC2 doesn't have the viewership that LoL currently enjoys. Otherwise Blizz could take the reins and run something like the LCS right now and offer quality games throughout a season. It's a really cool model but I don't see it viable without a large company running it and SC2 viewing numbers are unfortunately sad compared to League.
I think there is an oversaturation of pros and sponsorship in SC2 and its not seeing the returns of investment at all.
LCS took the GSL model of a long season in a live studio with every match broadcasted, we already have the equivalent and have had it for the past 3 years.
Yes, but the salary being paid to the LCS teams make this type of tournament feasible in NA/EU. The reason GSL works in Korea is because all the pros are in a relatively small area making it feasible with a small salary (you can consider Code S players getting a salary since you get prize money even if you get knocked out in Ro32).
In NA, EU, if players made the same amount as Code S. It just isn't economically feasible to relocate/travel to a set location once a week to play in month long tournaments.
IPL is awesome. IGN has been going downhill IMO for quite a while. Some of the most biased/payed reviews on the internet anymore, dont even bother going there. Its like fox news of the gaming industry
On February 22 2013 11:15 Shinta) wrote: Hmm, this isn't a big deal to me. Now IGN will focus and do a better job as IGN, hoping to keep a bunch of viewers without spending the money on the events. A business like IGN is on the down anyways at a time like this, they need to do w/e they can to survive.
What I'm worried about is the missing prize money. I really hope that more smaller tournaments pop up in NA to help support aspiring pro players make a decent living.
I'm actually a little glad that IPL is going down though. Even though it was awesome to have a huge event that has everyone, I feel that whole want/need needs to get outgrown. Areas need to focus on building their own pro scenes. Korea will always be self sustaining. They don't need the foreign world to keep professional SC2, but the international scene is too busy giving money to a ton of Koreans to help sustain their own pro players.
Less huge tournaments with everyone, (because huge tournaments cost a fuck ton more money for everyone) and more smaller tournaments to support pro players so the game stays alive!!!
The thing is, people will always want to watch the highest level of play. I mean the NBA is probably sustainable with only a US market. But there is just a huge international demand. Are international NBA fans too busy giving money to a ton of US to help sustain their own pro players?
On February 22 2013 11:29 CatsPajamas wrote: Hey everyone! Don't worry about us. ^__^ We're all still together and making content, and you'll know much more from us soon.
P.S. The speculation in this thread is hilarious to me. :D Don't fret, everyone.
Are you talking short term or long term? Because at the very least you guys will be around until IPL6 is over..
Personally I wouldn't care if IPL eventually closed, we got way more than enough content as it is. Far as I'm concerned that would be 4 more weekends a year I wouldn't be distracted from studying.
But this is probably a nonissue anyway according to Cats.
Im surprised IGN kept IPL going as long as it did, not like its a cash cow for them.
edit
On February 22 2013 11:29 CatsPajamas wrote: Hey everyone! Don't worry about us. ^__^ We're all still together and making content, and you'll know much more from us soon.
P.S. The speculation in this thread is hilarious to me. :D Don't fret, everyone.
The IPL team does a great job, thank you for all the great games you have brought us but IGN is teh poo
When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
What? There's nothing wrong. I'm actually surprised you see nothing but demise around you.
Btw, players switching teams (...) is not a bad thing.
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
It's happening all the time, you're just not paying any attention to it.
Over the last couple of months we've had new signings galore, new teams, the rebirth of old teams, more tournament announcements, exceptional additions to the game in the form of HotS, greater eSports support from Blizzard. Try reading about that stuff.
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
I think you need to calm down. Players switching teams means absolutely nothing. Sure some teams have shut down but we have also got some new ones, lets not also forget that the kespa teams are SC2 now as well. Of course that was going to put more pressure on the other Korean teams. Players retiring isn't a big deal at all.
There are simply too many good players out there so not everyone can keep playing. This happens in basically every sport.
This very thread is a massive over reaction, IPL isn't going to be shut down. It just won't be a part of IGN anymore which i personally don't think will be such a bad thing. What other tournament is for sale? It's literally only this and it has NOTHING to do with the success of lack thereof of the tournament and everything to to with IGN needing to become smaller and more focused.
I like you can't get into LoL or DOTA and i it does disappoint me that they are taking over but things aren't as bad as you're making out.
Honestly I don't really care about the main IPL series - good tournament, not that notable. I'm a HUGE fan of the multi-tiered IPTL though, so I really hope the brand sticks around even if just for that!
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
It's happening all the time, you're just not paying any attention to it.
Over the last couple of months we've had new signings galore, new teams, the rebirth of old teams, more tournament announcements, exceptional additions to the game in the form of HotS, greater eSports support from Blizzard. Try reading about that stuff.
Speaking of which, TB, I'm wondering what will happen with IPL. I really enjoyed the last ones, I hope that this one continue to be great. Do you have any info?
On February 22 2013 12:35 docvoc wrote: Speaking of which, TB, I'm wondering what will happen with IPL. I really enjoyed the last ones, I hope that this one continue to be great. Do you have any info?
People don't realize (they don't read the article) that this goes far beyond IPL.
These are IGN Entertainment's websites as of yesterday:
These are IGN Entertainment's websites after today's announcements: (graphics mine based on announcements on all of those sites) Also, Fileplanet is dead too.
So yeah, all that's left is IGN itself and a Men's relationship advice site. Basically, IGN is the only thing left focusing on Gaming and everything else is dead (except IPL). IPL is the only one that is even considered for being sold as far as I know. Most of those sites have been alive 5x longer than IPL. GameSpy even shipped with tons of games "back in the day" to provide their servers for multiplayer.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
it's a shame but I think you're right. a majority of people are only interested in watching the best of the best -- the champions league. and that is/will be Kespa. oh -- LAN events will go on of course. because those get revenue from entry fees and stuff as well.
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
It's happening all the time, you're just not paying any attention to it.
Over the last couple of months we've had new signings galore, new teams, the rebirth of old teams, more tournament announcements, exceptional additions to the game in the form of HotS, greater eSports support from Blizzard. Try reading about that stuff.
Oh, but the negative stuff is just so memorable and... juicy...
It is hard for me to believe that IPL isn't at least breaking even. IPL4 was pretty big, IPL5 completely sold out, and after IPL5 they were talking about expanding and having IPL every 4 months (3 times a year, up from 2).
That said, even if IPL is making a profit, it may not be enough to justify the investment to earn that profit. When people talk about profit in business, it can be tricky because there are sometimes different types of profit. There is the "are we covering our costs?" type of profit, and the "is it worth the investment?" type of profit (I forget the actual economic terminology for the two). For example, if you invest $500,000 into a tournament and make say $25,000 off the event after costs, you are making a profit in one sense. However, if you can invest that $500,000 into something else and make $50,000, you are losing profit. Granted these values are entirely made up, but that is the basic idea.
An example an econ instructor gave in a related leacture was something along the lines of: If you are making 80k a year at your current job, and decide to start your own business, your business might be profitable, making you 30k a year, but in a sense it is costing you 50k to run. Is it worth staying in business?
IMO, IPL is probably doing ok, just the new owners of IGN either dont see it fitting with their vision, or it just isn't making the returns that they consider to be "profitable". I'm sure there is also a reason why they are looking to sell it rather than just shut it down.
On February 22 2013 05:25 quantumslip wrote: now we're SC2-focused here, but what about LoL and FGC? Maybe SC2 isn't as big as it used to be but those other games and generes may have some more potential
You know the FGC easily has less than 1% of the amount of money that the SC2 scene does, right? Their tournaments are basically all run by nice guys in their hometowns and funded by entry fees, there's no opportunity for profit.
Riot isn't going to buy a league, there's no money or incentive in it for them. It's much easier to let other people run leagues and just harvest the free publicity. And if they did want such a thing, they'd be better off starting it up themselves. That goes for everyone else, too. Nobody is going to buy a league branded by a dying business.
On February 22 2013 05:25 quantumslip wrote: now we're SC2-focused here, but what about LoL and FGC? Maybe SC2 isn't as big as it used to be but those other games and generes may have some more potential
You know the FGC easily has less than 1% of the amount of money that the SC2 scene does, right? Their tournaments are basically all run by nice guys in their hometowns and funded by entry fees, there's no opportunity for profit.
Riot isn't going to buy a league, there's no money or incentive in it for them. It's much easier to let other people run leagues and just harvest the free publicity. And if they did want such a thing, they'd be better off starting it up themselves. That goes for everyone else, too. Nobody is going to buy a league branded by a dying business.
My point is not that those are necessarily viable as well, but that everyone in this thread is like "OMG SC2 IS DYING SC2 IS ESPORTS IF SC2 IS DYING ESPORTS IS DEAD" and tying directly the success of SC2 to the financial viability of eSports as a whole. Again, not saying that eSports is a viable model, but that SC2 "not making is" does not mean eSports can not make it, though if SC2 can't make it that is not a good sign.
On February 22 2013 05:25 quantumslip wrote: now we're SC2-focused here, but what about LoL and FGC? Maybe SC2 isn't as big as it used to be but those other games and generes may have some more potential
You know the FGC easily has less than 1% of the amount of money that the SC2 scene does, right? Their tournaments are basically all run by nice guys in their hometowns and funded by entry fees, there's no opportunity for profit.
Riot isn't going to buy a league, there's no money or incentive in it for them. It's much easier to let other people run leagues and just harvest the free publicity. And if they did want such a thing, they'd be better off starting it up themselves. That goes for everyone else, too. Nobody is going to buy a league branded by a dying business.
My point is not that those are necessarily viable as well, but that everyone in this thread is like "OMG SC2 IS DYING SC2 IS ESPORTS IF SC2 IS DYING ESPORTS IS DEAD" and tying directly the success of SC2 to the financial viability of eSports as a whole. Again, not saying that eSports is a viable model, but that SC2 "not making is" does not mean eSports can not make it, though if SC2 can't make it that is not a good sign.
Well to be honest, I doubt IGN's troubles have anything to do with SC2, since anything they lose in eSports would be a drop in the bucket compared to their other enterprises. People want to make it about the IPL because that's what we rely on them for, but IGN is much more than that.
Also, the reason why games like DotA do more with less because they keep everything on a community level, and pay all costs with sponsorship money and ad revenue, instead of introducing corporate investors and subscription fees. The western Starcraft community tends to want its scene to grow up too quickly, because it's already been that way in Korea for a long time. But with the increasing disparity between the skill level of most foreigners and most Koreans, interest in foreign SC2 events (like the NASL, especially) will continue to wane. Foreign tournaments now are basically just Korean tournaments which happen to be hosted elsewhere. The current way of doing things is illogical. It'll always be sustainable, just not on the level that some people might want it to be.
On February 22 2013 05:09 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote: LOL expected news. sc2 does not have a successful business model. early profits soon wane into bankruptcy
Are you saying IPL made IGN go bankrupt, or am I misunderstanding? Because that would be "LOL"-worthy indeed.
IPL - The tournament that gave a $100k prize pool to a game that got a high point of 2k viewers on stream for the grand finals - the game that had less than 50 spectators in the event room - the game that has 0 hype from the FPS community.
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
It's happening all the time, you're just not paying any attention to it.
Over the last couple of months we've had new signings galore, new teams, the rebirth of old teams, more tournament announcements, exceptional additions to the game in the form of HotS, greater eSports support from Blizzard. Try reading about that stuff.
I was thinking about your team and Azubu's as the last SC2 positive news, but for the birth of your team we lost OGS, Slayers, Check6, MTW just to name the few I remember, we all know Dignitas is in the red, Complexity is closing its gaming house and the list goes on and on. Quantic rebirth is just a merger, you can say Quantic is reborn but you can also say Its Gosu died. These are hard facts that aren't based on some teenage doom's day prediction, I'm not 12 nor a bloody mayan. I know there are a few good news here and there, but the bad stuff outweighs the good stuff by a huge margin. HOTS is coming I know, but will it be enough? I don't know, but I sure hope so. I don't have any numbers to reflect my feeling but this market seems to be shrinking at a staggering pace.
Back on topic, IPL was a huge event, one the top 3 in NA with MLG and NASL, imagine if one of the top 3 car manufacturers in NA was closing the shop, that would be monumental. And I think it is, less exposure for sponsors, less money basically.
TB, as a team leader, do you know the viewer count over the past 12 months? If you can tell me that the viewer count over the past 12 months for the SC2 streams is stable then I would change my mind, honest to God I hope I'm wrong.
On February 22 2013 13:31 Rowrin wrote: An example an econ instructor gave in a related leacture was something along the lines of: If you are making 80k a year at your current job, and decide to start your own business, your business might be profitable, making you 30k a year, but in a sense it is costing you 50k to run. Is it worth staying in business?
On February 22 2013 04:54 bduddy wrote: Ziff Davis, the owner of IGN (and a bunch of other stuff), is apparently not doing so well - they're shutting down some of their other gaming sites, laying off some people, and most importantly to SC2, they want to sell the IPL. .
Not doing so well? Didn't they buy IGN very recently?
Makes perfect sense that there would be cuts, given that IGN's been losing value for a long time, they probably wanna return it to profit, and it doesn't make sense for 1 company to own a bunch of competing sites- they should only need 1.
On February 22 2013 05:22 NoGasfOu wrote: IPL is ending. MLG's revenue is not enough to pay interest. GOM is losing foreign subscribers day by day.
Looks like the beginning of the end for anything that's not Kespa. BW 2.0 incoming.
it's a shame but I think you're right. a majority of people are only interested in watching the best of the best -- the champions league. and that is/will be Kespa. oh -- LAN events will go on of course. because those get revenue from entry fees and stuff as well.
The best of best, kespa? Have you ever seen the viewers of spl? Or have ever checked the discussion consider spl? What a joke!
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
It's happening all the time, you're just not paying any attention to it.
Over the last couple of months we've had new signings galore, new teams, the rebirth of old teams, more tournament announcements, exceptional additions to the game in the form of HotS, greater eSports support from Blizzard. Try reading about that stuff.
I was thinking about your team and Azubu's as the last SC2 positive news, but for the birth of your team we lost OGS, Slayers, Check6, MTW just to name the few I remember, we all know Dignitas is in the red, Complexity is closing its gaming house and the list goes on and on. Quantic rebirth is just a merger, you can say Quantic is reborn but you can also say Its Gosu died. These are hard facts that aren't based on some teenage doom's day prediction, I'm not 12 nor a bloody mayan. I know there are a few good news here and there, but the bad stuff outweighs the good stuff by a huge margin. HOTS is coming I know, but will it be enough? I don't know, but I sure hope so. I don't have any numbers to reflect my feeling but this market seems to be shrinking at a staggering pace.
Back on topic, IPL was a huge event, one the top 3 in NA with MLG and NASL, imagine if one of the top 3 car manufacturers in NA was closing the shop, that would be monumental. And I think it is, less exposure for sponsors, less money basically.
TB, as a team leader, do you know the viewer count over the past 12 months? If you can tell me that the viewer count over the past 12 months for the SC2 streams is stable then I would change my mind, honest to God I hope I'm wrong.
proleague, all the kespa teams joined sc2, we had an OSL, and we had the examples you said, that seems like alot of good news to me. And hots has not even come out yet. You sir are just some guy who is trying to be negative like everyone else for no reason. Like TB said try looking at the good stuff. oh also clarity gaming got a gaming house as well. Also as always EG got more sponsors, Oh also EG-TL that was good news as well. Uhh thats just off the top of my head, but that seemed like alot of good things i could remember in like 5 seconds
#EDIT also Gom moved to a more expensive area as well with a better studio. And MLG is doing the hots show matches as well. those seemed pretty good. Just stop saying the sky is falling im getting really sick of people who have no idea what they are talking about pretend like they have an idea what they are talking about
#EDIT 2 Also everything that NASL has been doing with talkshows to showmatches to fun content, all that seems to be pretty good news as well as content as well. also don't forget about Vengeance some crazy thing blizzard is doing, that seems like pretty good news as well.
On February 22 2013 05:09 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote: LOL expected news. sc2 does not have a successful business model. early profits soon wane into bankruptcy
expected news for pretty much any e-sport thats not top dog at the moment. think about it, every game ever to come out yet has (eventually) failed mostly because its still a niche thing, even though that's slowly changing its still the case today.
Ohhh...snap...so this is what they were talking about
I really hope IPL can still keep up its quality level even if IGN decides to end it or walk away from it. It's definitely true that a lot of big tournaments seem to be folding or something. I don't even know about plans for the next OSL etc. It's a shame, really...it was a great event for sure.
players quitting and or moving to lol and now ign selling ipl? i hope this doesnt mean sc2 is dying off even more quickly than i thought, because i have no interest in watching LoL, although it seems LoL is much more sustainable as an esport
Please stop with lol, in fact IPL have League of Legends and the Riot game isn't dying. Really fun to see that every 3-4 month there is a new "SC2 is dead" bandwagon... In 3 years there still will be guys to say "SC2 is dying". Look at non MOBA esports (CS, SFIV...) and you will see that SC2 is far from death.
In all honesty, SC2 is dead because HotS isn't out yet. Second HotS is out, within a few months our scene will grow back to normal. In all honesty for awhile I quit SC2 because I wanted to play other games before HotS came out. THEN I GOT THE BETA KEY.
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
It's happening all the time, you're just not paying any attention to it.
Over the last couple of months we've had new signings galore, new teams, the rebirth of old teams, more tournament announcements, exceptional additions to the game in the form of HotS, greater eSports support from Blizzard. Try reading about that stuff.
I was thinking about your team and Azubu's as the last SC2 positive news, but for the birth of your team we lost OGS, Slayers, Check6, MTW just to name the few I remember, we all know Dignitas is in the red, Complexity is closing its gaming house and the list goes on and on. Quantic rebirth is just a merger, you can say Quantic is reborn but you can also say Its Gosu died. These are hard facts that aren't based on some teenage doom's day prediction, I'm not 12 nor a bloody mayan. I know there are a few good news here and there, but the bad stuff outweighs the good stuff by a huge margin. HOTS is coming I know, but will it be enough? I don't know, but I sure hope so. I don't have any numbers to reflect my feeling but this market seems to be shrinking at a staggering pace.
Back on topic, IPL was a huge event, one the top 3 in NA with MLG and NASL, imagine if one of the top 3 car manufacturers in NA was closing the shop, that would be monumental. And I think it is, less exposure for sponsors, less money basically.
TB, as a team leader, do you know the viewer count over the past 12 months? If you can tell me that the viewer count over the past 12 months for the SC2 streams is stable then I would change my mind, honest to God I hope I'm wrong.
The viewer count has actually risen in the past 12 months. While these statistics may be hard to come by (they do exist), that doesn't mean that the sky is falling.
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
It's happening all the time, you're just not paying any attention to it.
Over the last couple of months we've had new signings galore, new teams, the rebirth of old teams, more tournament announcements, exceptional additions to the game in the form of HotS, greater eSports support from Blizzard. Try reading about that stuff.
I was thinking about your team and Azubu's as the last SC2 positive news, but for the birth of your team we lost OGS, Slayers, Check6, MTW just to name the few I remember, we all know Dignitas is in the red, Complexity is closing its gaming house and the list goes on and on. Quantic rebirth is just a merger, you can say Quantic is reborn but you can also say Its Gosu died. These are hard facts that aren't based on some teenage doom's day prediction, I'm not 12 nor a bloody mayan. I know there are a few good news here and there, but the bad stuff outweighs the good stuff by a huge margin. HOTS is coming I know, but will it be enough? I don't know, but I sure hope so. I don't have any numbers to reflect my feeling but this market seems to be shrinking at a staggering pace.
Back on topic, IPL was a huge event, one the top 3 in NA with MLG and NASL, imagine if one of the top 3 car manufacturers in NA was closing the shop, that would be monumental. And I think it is, less exposure for sponsors, less money basically.
TB, as a team leader, do you know the viewer count over the past 12 months? If you can tell me that the viewer count over the past 12 months for the SC2 streams is stable then I would change my mind, honest to God I hope I'm wrong.
The viewer count has actually risen in the past 12 months. While these statistics may be hard to come by (they do exist), that doesn't mean that the sky is falling.
the viewer count does not justify what was being spent on IPL. which is why Ziff Davis is selling it.
IPL 6 will either be cancelled or it'll be a train wreck.
On February 22 2013 19:57 kollin wrote: IPL 6 is not getting cancelled, and I don't understand why it would be a trainwreck. Everyone who works at IPL will likely still be there for IPL 6...
there will be large last minute cut backs for IPL6 in order to minimize losses.
now i realize these cutbacks might cause morale problems within the IPL staff ranks.
I have a simple solution that will help alleviate money issues and improve morale at the same time.
In other words, you have no source and you're spewing bullshit and passing it off as a fact to try and convince people that everything will most likely go wrong and SC2 will die.
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
MLG could always buy it and squash it.
No need for MLG to buy it to squash it, it doesn't make sense.
For one, MLG benefits most from the entire scene being larger. More people watching esports means more people watching MLG. Making the pie bigger is a much better move than trying to quibble over how to slice a smaller pie.
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
MLG could always buy it and squash it.
No need for MLG to buy it to squash it, it doesn't make sense.
For one, MLG benefits most from the entire scene being larger. More people watching esports means more people watching MLG. Making the pie bigger is a much better move than trying to quibble over how to slice a smaller pie.
Well, the thing is not everybody can dedicate their weekend to watching every single tournament. For example, the next MLG and the next IEM are literally days apart, and not everyone will have the time to watch both. Therefore, they choose to watch either MLG or IEM. The oversaturation of tournaments is what makes people think viewership is lower, as instead of having 100k viewers on 5 tournaments, we now have 50k viewers on 10 tournaments. So while I don't think MLG have the money or the inclination to buy IPL, it is beneficial for MLG if IPL stopped existing.
On February 22 2013 20:05 kollin wrote: In other words, you have no source and you're spewing bullshit and passing it off as a fact to try and convince people that everything will most likely go wrong and SC2 will die.
SC2 != IPL
SC2 is profitable. its sold millions and millions of units between $30 to $90 in price. the expansion will bring in more cash.
IPL is not profitable. therefore it will be shut down.
This is no different than when Time-Warner bought Turner Broadcasting. What happened to WCW ?
On February 22 2013 20:05 kollin wrote: In other words, you have no source and you're spewing bullshit and passing it off as a fact to try and convince people that everything will most likely go wrong and SC2 will die.
SC2 != IPL
SC2 is profitable. its sold millions and millions of units between $30 to $90 in price.
IPL is not profitable. therefore it will be shut down.
You don't seem to have very good reading comprehension. Provide a source before you just claim stuff is happening. You said Ziff Davis would scale back IPL and turn it into a train wreck. That could well happen, but without evidence you end up making a fool of yourself.
On February 22 2013 20:05 kollin wrote: In other words, you have no source and you're spewing bullshit and passing it off as a fact to try and convince people that everything will most likely go wrong and SC2 will die.
SC2 != IPL
SC2 is profitable. its sold millions and millions of units between $30 to $90 in price.
IPL is not profitable. therefore it will be shut down.
You don't seem to have very good reading comprehension. Provide a source before you just claim stuff is happening. You said Ziff Davis would scale back IPL and turn it into a train wreck. That could well happen, but without evidence you end up making a fool of yourself.
its the profit motive at work. i don't blame Ziff-Davis for wanting to discontinue support for an entity that will take 5 years to become profitable. no, its silly of you to expect they'll keep funding it. they've already said they want to sell it. whoever buys it is not going to bank roll someone's dream. Cost cutting will be priority #1 whether ZD is stuck with it or someone buys it.
On February 22 2013 20:05 kollin wrote: In other words, you have no source and you're spewing bullshit and passing it off as a fact to try and convince people that everything will most likely go wrong and SC2 will die.
SC2 != IPL
SC2 is profitable. its sold millions and millions of units between $30 to $90 in price.
IPL is not profitable. therefore it will be shut down.
You don't seem to have very good reading comprehension. Provide a source before you just claim stuff is happening. You said Ziff Davis would scale back IPL and turn it into a train wreck. That could well happen, but without evidence you end up making a fool of yourself.
its the profit motive at work. i don't blame Ziff-Davis for wanting to discontinue support for an entity that will take 5 years to become profitable.
On February 22 2013 20:05 kollin wrote: In other words, you have no source and you're spewing bullshit and passing it off as a fact to try and convince people that everything will most likely go wrong and SC2 will die.
SC2 != IPL
SC2 is profitable. its sold millions and millions of units between $30 to $90 in price.
IPL is not profitable. therefore it will be shut down.
You don't seem to have very good reading comprehension. Provide a source before you just claim stuff is happening. You said Ziff Davis would scale back IPL and turn it into a train wreck. That could well happen, but without evidence you end up making a fool of yourself.
its the profit motive at work. i don't blame Ziff-Davis for wanting to discontinue support for an entity that will take 5 years to become profitable.
So in other words, you don't have a source?
did i need a source when i said a year ago THQ was going down? this 5 year plan .. could easily turn into a 10 year plan with IPL never being profitable. and if ZD thought it was drawing in kajillions of new IGN web surfers they wouldn't be selling it.
I really couldn't care less about your infallible business sense. Without a source everything you say is guesswork, so please, please don't state it as a fact.
On February 22 2013 20:21 kollin wrote: I really couldn't care less about your infallible business sense. Without a source everything you say is guesswork, so please, please don't state it as a fact.
watch the events unfold and witness the invisible hand of Adam Smith's free market take care of all the details.
Well, it will be interesting to hear what TotalBiscuit has to say about it. I assume he will as part of a Content Patch video. Or at least I hope he will!
On February 22 2013 05:17 T.O.P. wrote: I can't see why anyone would buy IPL. It doesn't make sense for a competitor to buy it at all. Why waste money on acquiring IPL when money off better spent investing in your product. Secondly, why would a investor invest into a product that is not profitable.
MLG could always buy it and squash it.
No need for MLG to buy it to squash it, it doesn't make sense.
For one, MLG benefits most from the entire scene being larger. More people watching esports means more people watching MLG. Making the pie bigger is a much better move than trying to quibble over how to slice a smaller pie.
On February 22 2013 20:06 kmh wrote: For one, MLG benefits most from the entire scene being larger. More people watching esports means more people watching MLG. Making the pie bigger is a much better move than trying to quibble over how to slice a smaller pie.
IPL existing doesn't make the pie bigger.
IPL folding cannot help but make the pie (total amount of viewers and sponsors) smaller.
On February 22 2013 20:06 kmh wrote: For one, MLG benefits most from the entire scene being larger. More people watching esports means more people watching MLG. Making the pie bigger is a much better move than trying to quibble over how to slice a smaller pie.
IPL existing doesn't make the pie bigger.
IPL folding cannot help but make the pie (total amount of viewers and sponsors) smaller.
That might be true. I believe it will have a negligible impact on the population of sc2 watchers. People aren't gonna stop watching SC2 because IPL dies. There are plenty of other tournaments ready to fill the demand so they will substitute IPL for MLG, etc.
On February 22 2013 19:57 kollin wrote: IPL 6 is not getting cancelled, and I don't understand why it would be a trainwreck. Everyone who works at IPL will likely still be there for IPL 6...
there will be large last minute cut backs for IPL6 in order to minimize losses.
now i realize these cutbacks might cause morale problems within the IPL staff ranks.
I have a simple solution that will help alleviate money issues and improve morale at the same time.
Fire all the unhappy people.
That's a pretty good joke!
Oh, you were being serious? Really, you need to provide at least one source. Stating something as a fact just because you believe it's true doesn't actually make it true.
Don't know why so many are so gloomy. The problem is with IGN, not that IPL underperformed because of SC2. IPL was a long-term plan from the beginning, but IGN decided to slim down their business halfway through. This isn't too unusual.
Yes, either way we will probably lose a tournament, but having too few tournaments isn't really the problem of SC2. I'd miss the IPL main events but I won't miss the online content: Replay casts, reruns, terrible scheduling for EU, incomprehensible/hidden qualification formats, hidden side-events and unhelpful website. Just hope that its sponsors will stay in esports and the good employees will find another job.
On February 22 2013 05:23 Bagration wrote: So does this mean that IPL is unprofitable, or simply not profitable enough to become part of the leaner IGN?
The owner of IGN only wants the news coverage of eSports and video games. Thats why GameSpy and others are getting sold off as well.
IPL should be fine, especially with all of the coverage it was given for IPL5.
EDIT: BY THE WAY, IPL doesn't only do SC2, they do fighting games and LoL as well. So saying that IPL is going with the 'dying SC2 scene' is not thinking about the big picture.
Good thing gamespy is getting sold, it actually should be buried deep into the ground, such a terrible website.
On February 22 2013 20:05 kollin wrote: In other words, you have no source and you're spewing bullshit and passing it off as a fact to try and convince people that everything will most likely go wrong and SC2 will die.
SC2 != IPL
SC2 is profitable. its sold millions and millions of units between $30 to $90 in price.
IPL is not profitable. therefore it will be shut down.
You don't seem to have very good reading comprehension. Provide a source before you just claim stuff is happening. You said Ziff Davis would scale back IPL and turn it into a train wreck. That could well happen, but without evidence you end up making a fool of yourself.
its the profit motive at work. i don't blame Ziff-Davis for wanting to discontinue support for an entity that will take 5 years to become profitable.
So in other words, you don't have a source?
did i need a source when i said a year ago THQ was going down? this 5 year plan .. could easily turn into a 10 year plan with IPL never being profitable. and if ZD thought it was drawing in kajillions of new IGN web surfers they wouldn't be selling it.
its simple logic
Don't you mean simple guesswork? Because that's what you are doing.
Yeah I always found it hard to get info on any of the IGN sc2 online content, took me ages to find the VODs/schedule for FightClub and generally prefer GOM/MLG/IEM/KESPA content over anything IGN puts out. Dunno how many times I've flicked on the stream to see the same VODs running again
I wonder if Hots is going to bring a change to this looming of esports demise.. a lot of progamers have retired and many people I know have grown tired of sc2... I wonder how this will evolve when hots comes out
On February 22 2013 20:06 kmh wrote: For one, MLG benefits most from the entire scene being larger. More people watching esports means more people watching MLG. Making the pie bigger is a much better move than trying to quibble over how to slice a smaller pie.
IPL existing doesn't make the pie bigger.
IPL folding cannot help but make the pie (total amount of viewers and sponsors) smaller.
That might be true. I believe it will have a negligible impact on the population of sc2 watchers. People aren't gonna stop watching SC2 because IPL dies. There are plenty of other tournaments ready to fill the demand so they will substitute IPL for MLG, etc.
It also wasn't that long ago people were talking about over-saturation of tournaments in the market. I would be very surprised if the average sc2 viewer watch every single major tournament as it is so even if IPL potentially disappeared it wouldn't be game breaking by any means.
Yeah had a feeling this was coming, when the other thread was made about IGN being bought out. I think IPL might be in danger and IPL 6 will be the last one.
Bad news indeed... Living in Northern Arizona, these Las Vegas events have been my only Live SC2 experiences. Already bought tickets for IPL6 and hope it will be just as good as the others. Unfortunately if this tournament goes under I'd have to drive all the way to California for an event, which likely won't happen.
On February 22 2013 21:33 VampireLady wrote: I wonder if Hots is going to bring a change to this looming of esports demise.. a lot of progamers have retired and many people I know have grown tired of sc2... I wonder how this will evolve when hots comes out
Well the thing with esports is that if you play the game you are more likely gonna want to watch it, at least with LoL it seems that way. CoD not so much. I think HOTs will put interest in, but we have a ton of content going on and I think people are bored of faceless korean winning everything....I don't think Esports is dead, but its part of weeding out groups that should not be there.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
On February 22 2013 21:33 VampireLady wrote: I wonder if Hots is going to bring a change to this looming of esports demise.. a lot of progamers have retired and many people I know have grown tired of sc2... I wonder how this will evolve when hots comes out
Well the thing with esports is that if you play the game you are more likely gonna want to watch it, at least with LoL it seems that way. CoD not so much. I think HOTs will put interest in, but we have a ton of content going on and I think people are bored of faceless korean winning everything....I don't think Esports is dead, but its part of weeding out groups that should not be there.
I don't agree necessarily, I know I didn't play bw.. but i loved watching it.. the whole show and shabang around it made it a whole big phenomenon and you could indulge yourself in this spectacle of amusement regardless know hows... Now with sc2 that magic seems to be dissipating.. There could be a million reasons really..
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Exactly. It makes no sense for folks involved with IPL to send the message that they're closing shop while simultaneously courting potential buyers. Kevin is just exercising basic brand management in a time of transition. What's of more interest is David Ting's absence of any comment on what's happening, which invites some amount of curiosity, but gives away little in terms of where everything is headed. More likely than not, IPL doesn't yet know if it will have a new home so there's no point in David saying anything until there's a contract in the bag - or they exhaust their effort to have someone buy the operation.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
But...how else will we convince everyone of the impending demise of SC2?
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
I'm surprised no one has guessed that Taco Bell may want to buy us. Although, I'm really pulling for Arbys. Best roast beef sandwiches in the world!
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
But...how else will we convince everyone of the impending demise of SC2?
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
But...how else will we convince everyone of the impending demise of SC2?
3 major tournaments in NA is at least 1 too many imo with the oversaturration of tournys that we´ve got atm. Tbh I´d rather see IPL "die" than MLG or NASL as those tournaments at least spread out over the NA continent and aint confined to Vegas.
The prestige and glory of NASL and MLG will grow if IPL is no longer around, which is good but If IPL is indeed going down I hope those associated with it find new jobs.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
you do some fine work as a caster and on air personality.
unless you are personally going to underwrite IPLs losses then this situation is out of your control. you may be able to report on the results faster than "outsiders". but, it not like you can determine the future direction of league whose losses ZD is unwilling to fund.
IPL is bleeding badly. this is why ZD is not interested. if IPL were making billions then ZD would find a way to incude it in their "vision of the future".
Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Hearing him say that they're fine and have more to announce soon is enough to deduce that he knows something more than "keep producing content Kevin". No point in predicting doomsday in spite of what he said based on your assumption about how the company operates internally. That's just drama mongering really, and predictably, Cats was quick to correct you.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
you do some fine work as a caster and on air personality.
unless you are personally going to underwrite IPLs losses then this situation is out of your control. you may be able to report on the results faster than "outsiders". but, it not like you can determine the future direction of league whose losses ZD is unwilling to fund.
IPL is bleeding badly. this is why ZD is not interested. if IPL were making billions then ZD would find a way to incude it in their "vision of the future".
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
you do some fine work as a caster and on air personality.
unless you are personally going to underwrite IPLs losses then this situation is out of your control. you may be able to report on the results faster than "outsiders". but, it not like you can determine the future direction of league whose losses ZD is unwilling to fund.
IPL is bleeding badly. this is why ZD is not interested. if IPL were making billions then ZD would find a way to incude it in their "vision of the future".
Lol @ you telling an IPL employee that you know more about this situation than him. You have absolutely no idea about the potential buyers for IPL and their reasoning, yet you just lectured an IPL insider about buyers' reasoning, despite the fact that he just told us they're fine and have more to announce soon. I know drama is fun but maybe hold off until you can do something more than guess.
I would advise you to claim troll in order to save face lol.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW GOOD SIR AS SOME RANDOM GUY I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THE CURRENT STATE OF ESPORTS THEREFORE I MUST EXPLAIN TO YOU FOOLS WHY ESPORTS IS DEAD.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
On February 22 2013 12:14 Cygoris wrote: When was the last time a good news came up for the SC2 market? Players switching/retiring/fired, teams closing, tournaments for sale etc. It's such a weird feeling because I love starcraft so much but I feel everything is falling apart. I tried LoL and Dota2 but it's not for me, I wish the game I actually play was more successful.
It's happening all the time, you're just not paying any attention to it.
Over the last couple of months we've had new signings galore, new teams, the rebirth of old teams, more tournament announcements, exceptional additions to the game in the form of HotS, greater eSports support from Blizzard. Try reading about that stuff.
I was thinking about your team and Azubu's as the last SC2 positive news, but for the birth of your team we lost OGS, Slayers, Check6, MTW just to name the few I remember, we all know Dignitas is in the red, Complexity is closing its gaming house and the list goes on and on. Quantic rebirth is just a merger, you can say Quantic is reborn but you can also say Its Gosu died. These are hard facts that aren't based on some teenage doom's day prediction, I'm not 12 nor a bloody mayan. I know there are a few good news here and there, but the bad stuff outweighs the good stuff by a huge margin. HOTS is coming I know, but will it be enough? I don't know, but I sure hope so. I don't have any numbers to reflect my feeling but this market seems to be shrinking at a staggering pace.
Back on topic, IPL was a huge event, one the top 3 in NA with MLG and NASL, imagine if one of the top 3 car manufacturers in NA was closing the shop, that would be monumental. And I think it is, less exposure for sponsors, less money basically.
TB, as a team leader, do you know the viewer count over the past 12 months? If you can tell me that the viewer count over the past 12 months for the SC2 streams is stable then I would change my mind, honest to God I hope I'm wrong.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
It's hilarious that significant community figures are dropping in to share their viewpoints, and random forum-goers tells them that they are wrong. I mean come on.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Edit: Maybe I should state again, this is just my opinion, if that wasn't already obvious.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
you do some fine work as a caster and on air personality.
unless you are personally going to underwrite IPLs losses then this situation is out of your control. you may be able to report on the results faster than "outsiders". but, it not like you can determine the future direction of league whose losses ZD is unwilling to fund.
IPL is bleeding badly. this is why ZD is not interested. if IPL were making billions then ZD would find a way to incude it in their "vision of the future".
Dude it's JimmyRaynor. The man who thinks sc2 is dead, esports is dead. Literally he made a blog how blizzard has already given up on Esports after WCS. Wouldn't take any of his posts seriously. Lol @ you telling an IPL employee that you know more about this situation than him. You have absolutely no idea about the potential buyers for IPL and their reasoning, yet you just lectured an IPL insider about buyers' reasoning, despite the fact that he just told us they're fine and have more to announce soon. I know drama is fun but maybe hold off until you can do something more than guess.
I would advise you to claim troll in order to save face lol.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
you do some fine work as a caster and on air personality.
unless you are personally going to underwrite IPLs losses then this situation is out of your control. you may be able to report on the results faster than "outsiders". but, it not like you can determine the future direction of league whose losses ZD is unwilling to fund.
IPL is bleeding badly. this is why ZD is not interested. if IPL were making billions then ZD would find a way to incude it in their "vision of the future".
Lol @ you telling an IPL employee that you know more about this situation than him. You have absolutely no idea about the potential buyers for IPL and their reasoning, yet you just lectured an IPL insider about buyers' reasoning, despite the fact that he just told us they're fine and have more to announce soon. I know drama is fun but maybe hold off until you can do something more than guess.
I would advise you to claim troll in order to save face lol.
Dude it's JimmyRaynor. The man who thinks sc2 is dead, esports is dead. Literally he made a blog how blizzard has already given up on Esports after WCS. Wouldn't take any of his posts seriously.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
http://dathost.net/growth-in-starcraft-as-an-esport.php I would speculate that IPL is in trouble because of the intense oversaturation of tournaments. I think IPL 5 was in November, around a week after Dreamhack. Not everyone is going to watch both tournaments, and as they are both run by different organisations that hurts both tournaments.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
http://dathost.net/growth-in-starcraft-as-an-esport.php I would speculate that IPL is in trouble because of the intense oversaturation of tournaments. I think IPL 5 was in November, around a week after Dreamhack. Not everyone is going to watch both tournaments, and as they are both run by different organisations that hurts both tournaments.
I'm at work right now and that link won't load for me for some reason. However, isn't that just the chart that shows how more money is being offered by tournaments these days (specifically Gom and Blizzard)? That doesn't mean there are more actual viewers.
Forgive me if I'm wrong though, I can't get that link to even load.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
http://dathost.net/growth-in-starcraft-as-an-esport.php I would speculate that IPL is in trouble because of the intense oversaturation of tournaments. I think IPL 5 was in November, around a week after Dreamhack. Not everyone is going to watch both tournaments, and as they are both run by different organisations that hurts both tournaments.
I'm at work right now and that link won't load for me for some reason. However, isn't that just the chart that shows how more money is being offered by tournaments these days (specifically Gom and Blizzard)? That doesn't mean there are more actual viewers.
Forgive me if I'm wrong though, I can't get that link to even load.
That's on there, but there's also graphs for how the viewer numbers have gotten higher for each premier tournament over time.
On February 23 2013 05:02 Toss.Pro- wrote: I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off.
I think he broke 10k viewers (or within one or two hundred of 10k) because he was commentating his games as he played.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
On February 23 2013 05:02 Toss.Pro- wrote: I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off.
When he first started streaming he had numbers like that. That was a long time ago.
On February 23 2013 02:55 Nuclease wrote: Why is everyone freaking out about this? Calm down people, it's one large company in eSPORTs. They still want to cover eSPORTs, and IPL could very well end up in better hands.
Let's not start writing the eulogies for SC2 quite yet.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
On February 23 2013 05:02 Toss.Pro- wrote: I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off.
When he first started streaming he had numbers like that. That was a long time ago.
I was there, every day. It was closer to 7k, sometimes spiking higher for different reasons.
I will say that things in SC2 are looking volatile. It does seem like there is more bad than good news by a good margin. This is an issue for me because I love playing LoL, but it is so damned boring to watch.
On February 23 2013 05:02 Toss.Pro- wrote: I am sorry, but IdrA never got 16k+ concurrent viewers, and the other day he had 5900 viewers (could have even been higher, I only checked once.)
I thought his viewers would be lower than a year and a half ago, they are actually higher from what I remember, but not significantly.
I am not talking about all streams, just this particular one. Just wanted to point out that the numbers were way off.
When he first started streaming he had numbers like that. That was a long time ago.
I was there, every day. It was closer to 7k, sometimes spiking higher for different reasons.
I will say that things in SC2 are looking volatile. It does seem like there is more bad than good news by a good margin. This is an issue for me because I love playing LoL, but it is so damned boring to watch.
LoL has grown on me greatly. After watching OGN it clicked for me. Now I enjoy watching pretty much any pro LoL matches. But I strictly remember Idra having above 10k viewers regularly when he started streaming.
edit: And I believe I remember reading an article about how the most popular GSL ever, was season one when TLO played vs Hyperdub.
On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote: I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore.
That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now)
On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote: I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore.
That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now)
The rate with which they've been butchering all their franchises...Not sure I'd even want them to make a WC4. Who knows, maybe they'd add a real money Heroes Altar that summons more powerful heroes or some shit.
a lot of people seem to think that this is happening because IGN gave up on IPL. It was Ziff Davis, the very very recent IGN buyer, that is trying to maximize profits. They probably saw selling off IPL as a way to recover money from the sale. David Ting has been very positive and optimistic the entire time with IPL and he's a brilliant guy. I have faith
On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote: I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore.
That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now)
I completely agree... however, I think there will be a Warcraft 4 in the future. It will release just before they will announce WoW2.
PS: I really love SCII, so I am curious which RTS will win my heart ;-)
EDIT: On topic: I hope a financially healthy organisation (maybe a team or a tech-company) will pick up IPL, eg: SPL: Steelseries Pro League....or a brain fart: DreamHack US!
On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote: I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore.
That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now)
I completely agree... however, I think there will be a Warcraft 4 in the future. It will release just before they will announce WoW2.
PS: I really love SCII, so I am curious which RTS will win my heart ;-)
Well considering there is no WoW2 even announced, you will be waiting like 10+ years in that scenario.
Yes you are right, but this once again shows how hard it is for any organization in esport to be profitable.
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization.
If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
On February 23 2013 05:19 kollin wrote: I don't think there will be a WC4 to be honest, wouldn't fit in lorewise with the Warcraft world anymore.
That would be very sad for me. WC3 represented the most happiness in my online gaming career by a long shot, and it is the only reason I play Starcraft II now (that and there is no real alternative RTS right now)
I completely agree... however, I think there will be a Warcraft 4 in the future. It will release just before they will announce WoW2.
PS: I really love SCII, so I am curious which RTS will win my heart ;-)
Well considering there is no WoW2 even announced, you will be waiting like 10+ years in that scenario.
..that might be true. However Blizzard did take a lot of time between announcing WoW and releasing it. So my hope is: in 2 years WC4 is announced, in 4 years WC4 is released and WoW2 will be announced......(and it will take another 3 years before WoW2 will be released).
On February 23 2013 03:54 AnomalySC2 wrote: [quote]
SC2 just doesn't provide good enough games to keep viewers invested over a long period of time. It's that simple. I believe LoL and Dota 2 are still alive and well, with LoL absolutely flourishing. That leaves us with an empty void for a pure RTS and FPS. Hopefully there are devs out there that can pick up the esports torch and provide a game in one of those genres with real legs. Oh I almost forgot Street Fighter 4, that is still going as well.
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization.
If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
So you're saying they want to get rid of IPL because they want to focus on media instead of organizing events. So why did they pick up IPL in the first place? If it was profitable enough then they wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Right now there are only 440 viewers for IGNProLeague. Is that enough to sustain the organization? I think not....
On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote: [quote]
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization.
If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
So you're saying they want to get rid of IPL because they want to focus on media instead of organizing events. So why did they pick up IPL in the first place? If it was profitable enough then they wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Right now there are only 440 viewers for IGNProLeague. Is that enough to sustain the organization? I think not....
Did you miss that IGN recently got sold? New owner wants to sell IPL, part of refocusing IGN.
and right now IGN is reairing the IPTL match from yesterday. Of course it only has 400 viewers...
Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote: [quote]
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization.
If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
So you're saying they want to get rid of IPL because they want to focus on media instead of organizing events. So why did they pick up IPL in the first place? If it was profitable enough then they wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Right now there are only 440 viewers for IGNProLeague. Is that enough to sustain the organization? I think not....
The IPL stream is on all the time showing reruns of past events, because they see no reason to to have it on. It is like reruns of Mash, which I am sure get enough viewers to make it worth showing reruns of an old show. People need to stop trying to use stream numbers to prove anything. It is incomplete information and does not provide a full picture of what is going on in any way.
IGN is still owned by New Corp, who was trying to sell it off last year. They are scaling down and refocusing. IGN created IPL when SC2 started to become big. However, in the past two years the IGN has changed and Newcorp has been shopping them around. They likely have less of a budget and are becomming leaner and meaner.
And just because something is profitable does not mean that you wouldn't want to sell it. Some companys are founded on the concept of making a profit and then selling off the company. In fact, if IPL was not profitable, no one would buy it.
We know nothing, stop trying to prove your points by pointing at the view numbers for a rerun on Twitch.TV.
On February 23 2013 04:20 Wingblade wrote: [quote]
This is such an obnoxious and abstract post that it's impossible to disprove. How can you honestly say that SC2 games simply aren't interesting enough with anything other than your opinion. The SC2 is way over saturated is a much bigger issue, plus these last three months have been such a downtime since "Super November", an event that is in and of itself a sign of oversaturation.
It isn't "that simple" at all, and if you attempt to say it is without any evidence whatsoever is just silly.
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization.
If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
So you're saying they want to get rid of IPL because they want to focus on media instead of organizing events. So why did they pick up IPL in the first place? If it was profitable enough then they wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Right now there are only 440 viewers for IGNProLeague. Is that enough to sustain the organization? I think not....
They picked it up in the first place to try and drive more views towards the IGN website. Also, it makes literally no difference how many viewers that stream has as I believe it's essentially 24 hour broadcasts/rebroadcasts.
On February 23 2013 04:31 AnomalySC2 wrote: [quote]
It IS just my opinion. But viewer numbers have been dropping steadily since launch, right? That's a fact. It's just my opinion on why people are getting bored with watching the game, that's all. You could argue it's due to over-saturation, but I'd argue back that it's because the games aren't good enough to hold viewers interests across so many different events.
I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I used to follow SC2 extremely hardcore and slowly I got more and more bored with the games. We just don't get nearly as many awesome games as we got from BW or TFT. There have obviously been some classics (gumiho vs mma and scfou vs nestea come to mind), but the amount of these epic games is incredibly small compared to previous Blizzard efforts.
Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization.
If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
So you're saying they want to get rid of IPL because they want to focus on media instead of organizing events. So why did they pick up IPL in the first place? If it was profitable enough then they wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Right now there are only 440 viewers for IGNProLeague. Is that enough to sustain the organization? I think not....
The IPL stream is on all the time showing reruns of past events, because they see no reason to to have it on. It is like reruns of Mash, which I am sure get enough viewers to make it worth showing reruns of an old show. People need to stop trying to use stream numbers to prove anything. It is incomplete information and does not provide a full picture of what is going on in any way.
IGN is still owned by New Corp, who was trying to sell it off last year. They are scaling down and refocusing. IGN created IPL when SC2 started to become big. However, in the past two years the IGN has changed and Newcorp has been shopping them around. They likely have less of a budget and are becomming leaner and meaner.
And just because something is profitable does not mean that you wouldn't want to sell it. Some companys are founded on the concept of making a profit and then selling off the company. In fact, if IPL was not profitable, no one would buy it.
We know nothing, stop trying to prove your points by pointing at the view numbers for a rerun on Twitch.TV.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
What I mean by management is the executives on the Ziff Davis side though. You can't be the one who decided that it would be a good idea to sell IPL off.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
Those people are awesome because they say The sky is falling" over and over the instant some sort of mildly bad news comes out. Then people directly involved with the new say "No, its not bad at all, we are fine and will have some updates shortly. Hang in there folks, its going to be great" and they keep going. If you confront them with that informtion, they just scream "OF COURSE HE WOULD SAY THAT, WHAT ELSE IS HE GOING TO SAY?!?! THATS WHY SC2 IS GOING TO DIE". And then, after they, they point to Twitch numbers, because they have no other facts and those are right there.
And so life goes. There are people who just love to make it seem like everything is bad. I like TL, but there is part of me that wished there was another community site that was less tolerant of people just screaming the that everything is bad, even when the source of the negativity is just coming from within the same group of people.
On February 23 2013 04:35 kollin wrote: [quote] Viewers dropping since launch isn't a fact at all. At launch we had nowhere near the steadily increasing amount of viewers we have at the moment. There seems to be so many random, uninformed forum goers like yourself who state untrue things as facts to try and convince people that the bubble has burst.
Have some proof? I'm just going by what I see from stream numbers. On Twitch SC2 hovers around 8k to 15k viewers these days. That used to be way higher. Players like Idra used to get 16-20k viewers, now he probably averages like 4k?
By all means correct me if I'm wrong. When you couple that with how much doom and gloom has been going around these forums, plus all the team closures and player retirements, well you can't blame me for coming to that conclusion.
Who cares how many views player streams are getting? It used to be pretty rare for Idra to stream, now it's most days. The important figure is tournament viewership, which has been rising. Also, the player retirements were bound to happen eventually, because of over saturation. There haven't even been that many team closures, some teams have had to scale back due to their players not getting results but that is irrelevant to how well SC2 is doing.
If tournament views are rising then why is IPL in trouble? Can you show this proof or you're just making stuff up?
You're just speculating that IPL is in trouble, while entire case is about ZD wanna cut the entire IGN network down, does that mean 1UP, gamespy and UGO are "in trouble" before they are shut down? The truth is 1UP and gamespy remains as some of the best video gaming site in the world. They are shut down because they overlap with IGN a lot and ZD want more focus. IPL costs a lot money to run, yet have you heard of financial difficulties of IPL? You heard prize money disputes about ESL a lot, while for IPL they are healthy, that for me, is an obvious sign that an organization is running well.
I don't follow Gamespy or 1UP, so I have no idea if they're any good or not. I do follow gamespot and ign however. I imagine you don't cut profitable assets of your business, though.
There're are many reasons why an organization would cut its department. If that specific department does not fit a long term goal, then it's not abnormal for the organization to sell a department that makes money and try to make a short-mid term profit from it for the reorganization.
If IGN wants to focus being a media, not events organizer, then selling IPL makes a lot of senses as they could possibly profit from it and use the money they get to restructure and improve on the other area they need in their plan.
So you're saying they want to get rid of IPL because they want to focus on media instead of organizing events. So why did they pick up IPL in the first place? If it was profitable enough then they wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Right now there are only 440 viewers for IGNProLeague. Is that enough to sustain the organization? I think not....
The IPL stream is on all the time showing reruns of past events, because they see no reason to to have it on. It is like reruns of Mash, which I am sure get enough viewers to make it worth showing reruns of an old show. People need to stop trying to use stream numbers to prove anything. It is incomplete information and does not provide a full picture of what is going on in any way.
IGN is still owned by New Corp, who was trying to sell it off last year. They are scaling down and refocusing. IGN created IPL when SC2 started to become big. However, in the past two years the IGN has changed and Newcorp has been shopping them around. They likely have less of a budget and are becomming leaner and meaner.
And just because something is profitable does not mean that you wouldn't want to sell it. Some companys are founded on the concept of making a profit and then selling off the company. In fact, if IPL was not profitable, no one would buy it.
We know nothing, stop trying to prove your points by pointing at the view numbers for a rerun on Twitch.TV.
IGN is no longer owned by NewsCorp.
Ah, well there we go and they wanted to be free of the chains for a while. Well, even then, the selling of IPL has nothing to do with the success or failure of IPL. IGN is going through its own stuff and people need to not try to connect it to the SC2 is dying BS.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
IMO those people need to be banned. I think the rules need to be adjusted to cover people who just bring the community down for no reason.
JimmyRaynor's response to CatsPajamas where he presumes to tell him he knows more about IGN's finances and motives is fucking mind-blowingly stupid.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
In every way. I amazes me how much influence he has. Then I remember that he is the internet version of that 28 year old guy who hangs out with highschool kids and I totally understand.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But it is the community. The SC2 community has this remarkable ability to turn a tiny spark into a full-fledged forest fire because sparks aren't fun to watch.
You do know IGN shut down Gamespy as well? It really is because they want to focus and centralize instead of being spread out so much.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
NOOOOO!!! THE WORLD IS ENDING!!! HOTS IS CANCELED!!!!!! Don't you understand, that is what they want to believe. They are shutting down, but they are going to do a kickstarter first, to steal all your money. Then they will all switch and become a full time LoL league and feature CoD.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
Its almost as if people want sc2 to die and in effect make it a self fulfilling prophecy. Play the game for love of the game, watch the game to see where the game is headed, and support the events that bring you the best entertainment. No need to bring so much negativity.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote:
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
IPL and 10 leagues just like it could fold tomorrow and the SC2 trilogy will roll along without any problems.
David Ting stated its a "5 year plan" to get IPL to become profitable. IPLs "value proposition" is a "synergy" with a high profile english language gaming web site. With this gone and no sugar daddy to pay the bills this league's viability is justifiably called into question by the average outside observer.
Making and selling video games is several orders of magnitude more profitable than is the "esports industry".
EA and ATVI are publicly traded corporations worth billions. What is the leading eSports company worth? not much
it is no surprise people question the viability of the IPL.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You didn't read MY post. There is ZERO possibility of IPL closing down from this. They are selling, NOT closing. There is no "they might close", or "there's a slight chance" because there really isn't. Unless every source we've seen so far is somehow lying, IPL will not close. Period.
Not a fan of IGN: with so many sources out there (various youtube vids) I hardly need to go to those sites for reviews and new info (I think developers also shifted from giving info to sites like IGN many years ago to releasing the info themselves in their own sites). I also find IGN's reviews to be rather... biased? They are unable to capture a lot of what essentially maeks a game good/bad.
IPL on the other hand, is very well done. It is the only league which I constantly subscribe to: they provide quality content at a pretty affordable cost (compared to say... gsl season/yearly tickets... -_-). Granted, IPL has some pretty terrible luck with some of their events, such as a large truck knocking out the internet for the entire block, but they still find ways to keep things entertaining.
Say if IPL cannot find a new home... I am curious if they can operate solely on community investment via kickstarter or something similar.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote:
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You didn't read MY post. There is ZERO possibility of IPL closing down from this. They are selling, NOT closing. There is no "they might close", or "there's a slight chance" because there really isn't. Unless every source we've seen so far is somehow lying, IPL will not close. Period.
Well thats not true. They may not find a buyer which would probably mean IPL shutting down since Ziff has no interest in a league
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote:
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
On February 23 2013 12:14 Hikari wrote: Not a fan of IGN: with so many sources out there (various youtube vids) I hardly need to go to those sites for reviews and new info (I think developers also shifted from giving info to sites like IGN many years ago to releasing the info themselves in their own sites). I also find IGN's reviews to be rather... biased? They are unable to capture a lot of what essentially maeks a game good/bad.
IPL on the other hand, is very well done. It is the only league which I constantly subscribe to: they provide quality content at a pretty affordable cost (compared to say... gsl season/yearly tickets... -_-). Granted, IPL has some pretty terrible luck with some of their events, such as a large truck knocking out the internet for the entire block, but they still find ways to keep things entertaining.
Say if IPL cannot find a new home... I am curious if they can operate solely on community investment via kickstarter or something similar.
What I find strange about their reviews is that what they say is rather negative, but their scores are high anyway. "Bad gameplay, meh graphics and boring story. 9/10"
I think IPL is totally fine They just wanna put time and money in other places and projects. I hope this season of IPTL will just continue and the next IPTL will be even bigger :D Enjoyed IPTL the most.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote:
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote:
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote:
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote:
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote: [quote] The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote: [quote] The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote: [quote]
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote: [quote]
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
Your arguments were terrible.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry. When you see the viewer numbers dropping consistently across all players and tournaments, then you see many pro players retiring/switching to other games, then you see many teams shutting down or merging with other teams.... Come on now, use some common sense....
The only thing that has gone up is the prize pool from Gom and Blizzard, which is mostly thanks to WoW. That has nothing to do with SC2 being hugely successful at this point in time. They're trying to cover the wound with cash money, that's all that is.
On February 23 2013 08:42 Wingblade wrote: [quote]
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote: [quote]
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
Your arguments were terrible.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry.
As I said, you ignore all the positive growth to pretend that there is a trend.
On February 23 2013 08:56 AnomalySC2 wrote: [quote]
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
[quote]
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
Your arguments were terrible.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry.
As I said, you ignore all the positive growth to pretend that there is a trend.
On February 23 2013 08:42 Wingblade wrote: [quote]
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote: [quote]
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
Your arguments were terrible.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry. When you see the viewer numbers dropping consistently across all players and tournaments, then you see many pro players retiring/switching to other games, then you see many teams shutting down or merging with other teams.... Come on now, use some common sense....
The only thing that has gone up is the prize pool from Gom and Blizzard, which is mostly thanks to WoW. That has nothing to do with SC2 being hugely successful at this point in time. They're trying to cover the wound with cash money, that's all that is.
On February 23 2013 08:42 Wingblade wrote: [quote]
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote: [quote]
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
Your arguments were terrible.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry. When you see the viewer numbers dropping consistently across all players and tournaments, then you see many pro players retiring/switching to other games, then you see many teams shutting down or merging with other teams.... Come on now, use some common sense....
The only thing that has gone up is the prize pool from Gom and Blizzard, which is mostly thanks to WoW. That has nothing to do with SC2 being hugely successful at this point in time. They're trying to cover the wound with cash money, that's all that is.
I literally linked you evidence that stream numbers are going up. Furthermore, it's to be expected some players are retiring, this doesn't mean that the scene is dying it just means they aren't getting the results they want and have decided to move on with their lives. Their is no esport large enough to support the number of players that SC2 was supporting, not LoL or Dota 2 or SC2. One day that will be the case, but we will have to wait for more team leagues and events that are less top heavy in prize pool to spring up.
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
IPL IS NOT SHUTTING DOWN. The OP of the thread implies it, and multiple well-known people within IPL explicitly say it. They are not closing. Get it through your head.
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
On February 23 2013 08:38 Plansix wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:
On February 23 2013 08:19 Fusilero wrote:
On February 23 2013 07:11 iNfeRnaL wrote: Man I'm on this site since a long, long time and it's always been quite negative, but the mood that is the SC2-"Community" is just sad and depressing. Glad I'm not a part of it anymore whatsoever. Look at yourselves guys, what the fuck. There's people telling you, hey, we're all good 'n yet you ride the "EVERYTHINGS CRASHIN' 'N' BURNIN"-train for no apparent reason... jesus christ..
The destiny post is legitimately the single worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
So shovel the blame all onto him then, eh? He totally had no reason to believe in the stuff he said in that post, it's all his fault. As I pointed out earlier, it's certainly not unreasonable at all to get this vibe that SC2 is falling apart. There is a lot of negative news going around, and it's not just the community. IPL possibly shutting its doors is certainly not helping the situation at all.
But is has nothing to do with SC2 at all, in any way. I could say that video games are a whole are falling apart because of all the news about closing studios, Iphones and other stuff and find tons of "evidence" to back up my claim. But it is simply not true. Businesses close, things change, people get fired and every time it happens people do not need to act like the sky is falling. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
1) not enough information, 2) flimsy evidence based on passing your mouse over the streams a couple times. You wouldn't cite 20k for IdrA if you were intent on presenting an intelligent argument. It's just speculation and no amount if being entitled to your opinion is going to elevate your statements above guess status.
On February 23 2013 09:29 Doodsmack wrote: [quote]
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
Your arguments were terrible.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry.
As I said, you ignore all the positive growth to pretend that there is a trend.
Nice dodge.
Actually, that's all there was in your post when I'd quoted it. Don't even pretend that you didn't edit in the rest of that block.
Viewership is up across the board, just not for individuals.
There are more tournaments in 2013 than in 2012.
Teams have closed and merged, but several teams have also started anew, and many are expanding (Root, Azubu, Acer, Axiom). Not even counting the Kespa move.
GOMs prize pool actually dropped in 2012, and the money from the WCS doesn't actually match that drop, yet prize money in 2012 still increased. So no, you have no clue about where that money came from or why it was put out there.
On February 23 2013 08:56 AnomalySC2 wrote: [quote]
What about the word "possibly" do you not get? Reread my post.
[quote]
Well I hope you're right. We will see I guess.
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
Your arguments were terrible.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry. When you see the viewer numbers dropping consistently across all players and tournaments, then you see many pro players retiring/switching to other games, then you see many teams shutting down or merging with other teams.... Come on now, use some common sense....
The only thing that has gone up is the prize pool from Gom and Blizzard, which is mostly thanks to WoW. That has nothing to do with SC2 being hugely successful at this point in time. They're trying to cover the wound with cash money, that's all that is.
I literally linked you evidence that stream numbers are going up. Furthermore, it's to be expected some players are retiring, this doesn't mean that the scene is dying it just means they aren't getting the results they want and have decided to move on with their lives. Their is no esport large enough to support the number of players that SC2 was supporting, not LoL or Dota 2 or SC2. One day that will be the case, but we will have to wait for more team leagues and events that are less top heavy in prize pool to spring up.
That link only showed dreamhack's viewership increasing. What about all the other tournaments that are completely absent from that chart? The rest of the charts that were in your link were only showing an increase in the amount of money being pumped into the game. What an incredibly misleading and carefully biased chart that was.
On February 24 2013 07:27 kollin wrote: Wow he did actually edit at in after the fact as well. Not only has every single one of your arguments been disproven, you now look like a dick.
No I edited in like 2 minutes after making the post. He must have spent forever writing his response. And you haven't disproven anything at all. All you're really doing is desperately attacking me.
On February 23 2013 09:29 Doodsmack wrote: [quote]
You know nothing about what's going to happen to IPL or SC2, because you don't have enough information at your disposal. The fact that you've blurted out such silly evidence in this thread ("IdrA got 20k viewers once herp derp", "IGN stream has 400 viewers right now") just makes it painfully obvious that you don't have enough information. Please stop speculating that IPL and SC2 might die, and wait until you have enough information to do more than throw guesses out.
It's just my opinion, no need to get upset dude.
Saying "its just my opinion" is not a response to an argument you know.
But it IS a response to someone that wasn't even attempting to debate and instead was just raging.
Problem is that you don't have an argument either. You're just randomly implying that the sky is falling, and when people call you out on it, you're just saying "it's just my opinion" and "we'll see".
Maybe you should reread some of my posts. I provided many different views on why I, and many others continually feel like the floor is bottoming out on the SC2 scene. Nice try though.
Maybe you should reread my post. Your arguments are trying to extrapolate singular instances to an entire industry, while ignoring all the positive growth to accentuate the negative.
When someone calls you out on it, you fall back on some vague excuses about how it's your opinion, or you were just considering the possibility.
Your arguments were terrible.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry. When you see the viewer numbers dropping consistently across all players and tournaments, then you see many pro players retiring/switching to other games, then you see many teams shutting down or merging with other teams.... Come on now, use some common sense....
The only thing that has gone up is the prize pool from Gom and Blizzard, which is mostly thanks to WoW. That has nothing to do with SC2 being hugely successful at this point in time. They're trying to cover the wound with cash money, that's all that is.
I literally linked you evidence that stream numbers are going up. Furthermore, it's to be expected some players are retiring, this doesn't mean that the scene is dying it just means they aren't getting the results they want and have decided to move on with their lives. Their is no esport large enough to support the number of players that SC2 was supporting, not LoL or Dota 2 or SC2. One day that will be the case, but we will have to wait for more team leagues and events that are less top heavy in prize pool to spring up.
That link only showed dreamhack's viewership increasing. What about all the other tournaments that are completely absent from that chart? The rest of the charts that were in your link were only showing an increase in the amount of money being pumped into the game.
On February 24 2013 07:27 kollin wrote: Wow he did actually edit at in after the fact as well. Not only has every single one of your arguments been disproven, you now look like a dick.
No I edited in like 2 minutes after making the post. He must have spent forever writing his response. And you haven't disproven anything at all. All you're really doing is desperately attacking me.
Sure his evidence doesn't apply to all tournaments but you don't have any evidence at all so i don't see how you can take that position.
You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points. Your "evidence" is a sneaky chart that only shows viewer growth for one single tournament.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
The only thing that has gone up is the prize pool from Gom and Blizzard, which is mostly thanks to WoW. That has nothing to do with SC2 being hugely successful at this point in time. They're trying to cover the wound with cash money, that's all that is.
Disproven by WolfInSheep.
They are not singular instances if it's a growing trend, sorry. When you see the viewer numbers dropping consistently across all players and tournaments
You have not provided any evidence for this, whereas I have at least provided some.
then you see many pro players retiring/switching to other games, then you see many teams shutting down or merging with other teams
The scene was too over saturated to support all these players anyway. It's actually worse in LoL and Dota 2.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, why there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
So no sources, specific points or evidence. Just your own subjective speculative generalized view of the community as whole. Ya, this is solid alright, SC2 is dying you convinced me.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, why there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
The only tournament that isn't a rebroadcast going on right now is two show matches between non top tier players done by a fairly unknown organisation. The only two streamers streaming right now who really pull in the big numbers is Grubby and Idra. I'm just using common sense and logic here, it's quite obvious to me at least.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
So no sources, specific points or evidence. Just your own subjective speculative generalized view of the community as whole. Ya, this is solid alright, SC2 is dying you convinced me.
Uhhh the source is twitch, no? Go look for yourself.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
14k Viewers with absolutely no tournaments or major events.
The players that retired never got stream viewers in the first place. If they quit because 50 viewers wasn't enough, they should have quit when they were getting 100.
Of the teams that closed, SlayerS was plagued with mismanagement and outright fraud, Eclypsia essentially the same, Quantic...well, Quantic is back. Please remind me of any other tem.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
So no sources, specific points or evidence. Just your own subjective speculative generalized view of the community as whole. Ya, this is solid alright, SC2 is dying you convinced me.
Uhhh the source is twitch, no? Go look for yourself.
By other words you have no real evidence to speak of.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
So no sources, specific points or evidence. Just your own subjective speculative generalized view of the community as whole. Ya, this is solid alright, SC2 is dying you convinced me.
Uhhh the source is twitch, no? Go look for yourself.
By other words you have no real evidence to speak of.
Nor do you, and are you implying twitch is like, making those numbers up or something? What are we even arguing about at this point? This has gotten silly. You will no doubt take this as me somehow admitting you proved me wrong or some bs like that (you haven't btw, you just attack me with your 3 other buddies), but this is going nowhere.
Lets let time decide if Blizzard can fix their game and the scene. I'm under the impression that they can't, sorry, they are not the same company I loved growing up. They have been screwing up all their games lately.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
So no sources, specific points or evidence. Just your own subjective speculative generalized view of the community as whole. Ya, this is solid alright, SC2 is dying you convinced me.
Uhhh the source is twitch, no? Go look for yourself.
By other words you have no real evidence to speak of.
Nor do you, and are you implying twitch is like, making those numbers up or something? What are we even arguing about at this point? This has gotten silly. You will no doubt take this as me somehow admitting you proved me wrong or some bs like that (you haven't btw, you just attack me with your 3 other buddies), but this is going nowhere.
Lets let time decide if Blizzard can fix their game and the scene. I'm under the impression that they can't, sorry, they are not the same company I loved growing up. They have been screwing up all their games lately.
Interesting how you managed to skip past my post where I showed how not once, not twice but thrice we proved you wrong. Furthermore, you ignored the 2 posts explaining why the viewers won't be insanely high, just to pick on this one. Almost as if you don't want to answer them...
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
So no sources, specific points or evidence. Just your own subjective speculative generalized view of the community as whole. Ya, this is solid alright, SC2 is dying you convinced me.
Uhhh the source is twitch, no? Go look for yourself.
By other words you have no real evidence to speak of.
Nor do you, and are you implying twitch is like, making those numbers up or something? What are we even arguing about at this point? This has gotten silly. You will no doubt take this as me somehow admitting you proved me wrong or some bs like that (you haven't btw, you just attack me with your 3 other buddies), but this is going nowhere.
Lets let time decide if Blizzard can fix their game and the scene. I'm under the impression that they can't, sorry, they are not the same company I loved growing up. They have been screwing up all their games lately.
Let's be clear here: Twitch numbers do not explain why players retired or why teams closed up shopped. You assumed both of those.
You provided no evidence for you assumptions, just gave numbers and pretended that they were relevant.
On February 24 2013 07:36 kollin wrote: You edited it in the same minute that he posted his post, which is very suspicious. Furthermore, we have literally disproven everything you have said. Sundance went on SotG sometime recently and said viewership had risen, and the excellent points WolfInSheep made really go to prove that you're either trolling or backing down and admitting you're wrong wounds your manly pride.
Again, you haven't disproven anything. You're essentially just attacking me in an attempt to undermine my points.
What points would that be, could you summarizing them? aslo since you mention "evidence" could you supply them with a source and please specify how these sources are more legit than Dreamhack and sundance on STOG.
How about the fact that right now there are only 3k viewers on twitch for WoL and 11k for HoTS. Is that enough to sustain the scene? This is, imo, why there has been so much negativity among the community and why so many teams/players are retiring. Thats it. I'm just using common sense and simple logic. It's quite obvious to me, at least.
I have literally never watched a player stream for more than 10 minutes, and I have never watched a player stream in the past year at all. Who cares about player stream numbers? Player streams in BW had horrid viewership numbers (foreign only for the most though) yet the Korean scene lived on for over 10 years purely through tournaments.
Tournaments are what matter to me, so your point is pretty stupid as usual because you assume that you are the center of SC2 and what you like must be what the scene needs. Sure, Destiny gets more viewers on LoL, but the truth is that a lot of professional players do not need huge streaming numbers to survive. The issue was that Destiny was never good enough at SC2 to get into a position where that was true for him, so he moved.
The fact is that you've gotten proven wrong over and over again except on declining player stream numbers, which you had to continuously revise lower and lower until you stopped exaggerating out your ass (of course you also ignore the fact that IdrA was a very top-tier pro and even a top 10 world zerg at one point when he was streaming, and now he isn't even close to that).
But no, clearly IGN shuttering EVERY OTHER SITE besides a Men's advice site ("Warning, obvious appeal to mainstream crowd for income detected!") means that StarCraft 2 is dying. Horribly dying. I know this because 1 + 2 = fish
Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
For one thing, a ton of businesses these days go for years and years without ever making money. I still don't think Youtube has ever made money, and if they have it's because Google has cut out the middleman by using their own ad networks, and yet YT is considered to be worth billions. Also, who's to say that IPL won't be bought by someone else who also plans to use it to promote their other businesses?
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
obviously. i was just quoting you. short term return happens to be the shit right now but that doesnt mean its the only way to make money. its simply the easiest way to appeal to investors.
I don't understand why everybody thinks sc2 is going to die just because there are other games that are more popular. Sure, they have higher numbers but who really cares? As a viewer you should watch what you want to watch not whats the most popular. Even if sc2 continues to die and there is only a small niche of people who play and watch it, who cares. If you dont like the game than just leave now. There will always be competitive sc2 whether or not there are 50k prize pools.
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns, IPL, was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
NewsCorp thought IGN and IPL were a waste of their time and money. No one thought IGN and IPL were worth anything during hte sales process.
The second Ziff Davis buys IGN ... IPL is on the block. Ziff Davis thinks IPL is a waste of their time and money.
you can twist your mind into a pretzel of rationalizations if it will make you feel better. i prefer to keep things simple.
it is highly probably IPL will fold as soon as the contracts for their previous commitments expire.
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
buy is a ubiquitous term in this case.... whoever "buys" it has to put on 1 event of the scale of IPL5.
you do not deserve a ban though. you are polite and pretty measured in what you are saying... you are just incorrect.. that is not a crime.
On February 24 2013 08:17 Hikari wrote: Having a large viewership helps maintain the scene economically somewhat, but there are also other ways in which you can save/make money. Having good management, sponsors, and good use of ad spaces will probably be something the scene can work on. I will be honest that a long time ago I did not know there is an energy drink called Nos, and recently I learned of this game called zoozoo bubbles...
that is great, however, hte head of the IPL said they are 5 years from profitability. Ziff Davis said "find another sugar daddy".
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns, IPL, was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
NewsCorp thought IGN and IPL were a waste of their time and money. No one thought IGN and IPL were worth anything during hte sales process.
The second Ziff Davis buys IGN ... IPL is on the block. Ziff Davis thinks IPL is a waste of their time and money.
you can twist your mind into a pretzel of rationalizations if it will make you feel better. i prefer to keep things simple.
it is highly probably IPL will fold as soon as the contract for their previous commitments expire.
That's an awful lot of generalizations and assumptions that are masquerading as facts.
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
buy is a ubiquitous term in this case.... whoever "buys" it has to put on 1 event of the scale of IPL5.
No, you're saying it won't find a buyer. I'm asking you to prove you're confident in this prediction.
no one wanted IGN guys. and then all the resignations just before and just after it was sold... this was ugly.
That isn't relevant at all.
i was questioned as having no facts. so here they are.
OK, how do you know no one wants IPL? For all you know it found a buyer already and it just hasn't been announced yet. I suggest you stop making huge generalisations and maybe wait more than a few days to see where things go.
no one wanted IGN guys. and then all the resignations just before and just after it was sold... this was ugly.
That isn't relevant at all.
i was questioned as having no facts. so here they are.
You still don't get it, let me clarify what kollin meant by not relevant; we are talking about if someone wants to buy IPL, not IGN. Do you understand the difference between the two?
no one wanted IGN guys. and then all the resignations just before and just after it was sold... this was ugly.
That isn't relevant at all.
i was questioned as having no facts. so here they are.
Bananas are yellow!
There. That was a fact. I have it. Therefore I am right.
Besides, all this throwing around of "5 years until profitable".. you do know that IPL started in April 2011, right? So, at worst, it's 3 years until profitable. For an esports event (y'know, where nothing ever makes money), that actually sounds pretty good.
no one wanted IGN guys. and then all the resignations just before and just after it was sold... this was ugly.
That isn't relevant at all.
i was questioned as having no facts. so here they are.
You still don't get it, let me clarify what kollin meant by not relevant; we are talking about if someone wants to buy IPL, not IGN. Do you understand the difference between the two?
IPL was part of IGN and no one wanted it. finally, after a long convoluted sales process the only company stepping forward to buy IGN immediately wants to sell IPL.
do you understand ?
the "value proposition" was that IPL drew an audience to IGN.com. that is now gone.
based upon this i'll be surprised if we see another event anything like IPL5 after the contractual obligations for IPL6 are met.
if you want to make any kind of projection into the future... do it.. and let's see who is closer a year from now.
other than that we're just going over the same set of facts.
if IPL is this sure fire success story why did Newscorp and Ziff-Davis want to get rid of it? because they do not see any future profit in it. neither do i.
no one wanted IGN guys. and then all the resignations just before and just after it was sold... this was ugly.
That isn't relevant at all.
i was questioned as having no facts. so here they are.
You still don't get it, let me clarify what kollin meant by not relevant; we are talking about if someone wants to buy IPL, not IGN. Do you understand the difference between the two?
IPL was part of IGN and no one wanted it. finally, after a long convoluted sales process the only company stepping forward to buy IGN immediately wants to sell IPL.
do you understand ?
the "value proposition" was that IPL drew an audience to IGN.com. that is now gone.
based upon this i'll be surprised if we see another event anything like IPL5 after the contractual obligations for IPL6 are met.
if you want to make any kind of projection into the future... do it.. and let's see who is closer a year from now.
other than that we're just going over the same set of facts.
if IPL is this sure fire success story why did Newscorp and Ziff-Davis want to get rid of it? because they do not see any future profit in it. neither do i.
No, IGN are going in a different direction with their coverage. That doesn't mean there isn't any future profit in it, it means IGN is restructuring and needs the money they'd usually put into IPL (hoping to start making a profit in around three years) elsewhere. Stop stating things like they're facts, they're not. Multiple people who work for IPL have said you're wrong, yet you persistently keep this line of argument.
no one wanted IGN guys. and then all the resignations just before and just after it was sold... this was ugly.
That isn't relevant at all.
i was questioned as having no facts. so here they are.
You still don't get it, let me clarify what kollin meant by not relevant; we are talking about if someone wants to buy IPL, not IGN. Do you understand the difference between the two?
IPL was part of IGN and no one wanted it. finally, after a long convoluted sales process the only company stepping forward to buy IGN immediately wants to sell IPL.
do you understand ?
the "value proposition" was that IPL drew an audience to IGN.com. that is now gone.
based upon this i'll be surprised if we see another event anything like IPL5 after the contractual obligations for IPL6 are met.
if you want to make any kind of projection into the future... do it.. and let's see who is closer a year from now.
other than that we're just going over the same set of facts.
if IPL is this sure fire success story why did Newscorp and Ziff-Davis want to get rid of it? because they do not see any future profit in it. neither do i.
Exactly, IPL is a part of IGN, which must mean that IPL is not EQUAL TO IGN, it is the relationship of "equal to" you are using as means of decucing your so called logical conclusion. which you cannot since they are not the same thing. Do you understand now by "not relevant",we mean as by making a COMPARISON between the purchase of IGN AND IPL doesn't make sense?
Good luck to IPL, I think the future should be great for them since their tournaments are pretty well received and highly rated by our community. It's just IGN isn't doing well enough and cannot afford to spare extra fundings, not surprising since there are so many reviews/trailers available on youtube nowadays.
In my dream scenario NASL band together with IPL and they move in a GSL like studio. Gretech sells its license to IPL-NASL creating the NA-GSL and NA-GSTL. Regular starcraft broadcasts 5times a week. NA-GSTL attracts the western teams to open a teamhouse near the studio. All NA teams will have 20+ players because a live team league can sustain them. Korean esports model complete. The NA pro scene will actually play the best starcraft on the planet.
... I'm reading a lot of conspiracy theories being labeled as facts. wtf?
I mean, if you read the OP there are groups interested in buying IPL, and Ziff Davis/new IGN are talking with them. The likelyhood that IPL will just be shutdown completely isn't that high.
we are: ... · Actively engaged withparties interested in acquiring IPL...
I dont think they are going to cut IPL if they can get something or anything out of it from selling it off. For them to just shut IPL down woud mean that these other parties were offering them less than nothing, since that is what ZD would get by just shuting it down.
The real question is if the new owners of IPL will keep up the quality of production and such. And there is also the case where ZD/IGN just decide to keep it for whatever reason. Who knows, they may find a use for it.
no one wanted IGN guys. and then all the resignations just before and just after it was sold... this was ugly.
That isn't relevant at all.
i was questioned as having no facts. so here they are.
Bananas are yellow!
There. That was a fact. I have it. Therefore I am right.
I call bullshit sir, some bananas are green.
IPL will fall, if there is money to be made another tournament will take its place. That's how business works.
It's the question what is cheaper, and what will get you money quicker: Creating a new tournament from scratch, or buying an existing one.
I honestly have no idea, and I dare say most of us lack the expertise to answer that question.
Buying an existing business is faster than building one from scratch, as long as the existing infrastructure is what you'll use.
The "cheapness" is entirely dependent on the agreed upon price, and if you plan to cut costs and services once you own it.
Honestly, if anyone is planning to create a tournament, they would be foolish to pass up on the IPL franchise. They have the staff, the broadcast equipment, expertise, etc. The question is if there's anyone that wants to start an E-Sport tournament.
Considering the boom in esports viewership from LoL, I'm amazed IPL is struggling. Tournaments need to be really flexible at this fledgling stage of esports development- the community can't even agree on what we all want to watch!
I think i read an article about how this has been an issue earlier. I really love IPL for what they have done for E-sports, their production quality and their rebroadcasts. I love having the opportunity to watch their stream at any time, both live and rebroadcasts, which is easy to take for granted.
I really hope they will be able to keep doing what they do! Wish them the Best of luck!
It's not clear to me whether esports has been making more money and growing or declining. Or just changing. Not sure how to measure that. IPL is a great tournament.
Waittttt, what will happen to BorderLands 1 multiplayer if GameSpy is shutting down o.o I'm assuming Steam will be taking over for multiplayer servers?
Man, this is way more important than I thought.
With IPL6 still en route, hopefully Mr.Ting can work things out to keep atleast IPL afloat.
On February 26 2013 07:51 Master of DalK wrote: Waittttt, what will happen to BorderLands 1 multiplayer if GameSpy is shutting down o.o I'm assuming Steam will be taking over for multiplayer servers?
no one wanted IGN guys. and then all the resignations just before and just after it was sold... this was ugly.
That isn't relevant at all.
i was questioned as having no facts. so here they are.
Bananas are yellow!
There. That was a fact. I have it. Therefore I am right.
I call bullshit sir, some bananas are green.
IPL will fall, if there is money to be made another tournament will take its place. That's how business works.
It's the question what is cheaper, and what will get you money quicker: Creating a new tournament from scratch, or buying an existing one.
I honestly have no idea, and I dare say most of us lack the expertise to answer that question.
Buying an existing business is faster than building one from scratch, as long as the existing infrastructure is what you'll use.
The "cheapness" is entirely dependent on the agreed upon price, and if you plan to cut costs and services once you own it.
Honestly, if anyone is planning to create a tournament, they would be foolish to pass up on the IPL franchise. They have the staff, the broadcast equipment, expertise, etc. The question is if there's anyone that wants to start an E-Sport tournament.
I want to own it, I just personally don't have that kind of money. :/
I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
WRONG.
SC2 is just fine and has formed a nice little revenue stream for ATVI.
IPL is a money losing operation. Ziff Davis, and Newscorp want nothing to do with IPL.
The employees at THQ said everything was just fine. When employees tell me everything is just fine I take it with a grain of salt.
If IPL were making money this would be a non-issue. They could just hand the keys to David Ting and call it a day. However, IPL is losing money and needs a sugar daddy.
As the employees of IPL begin looking for other jobs it is within their best interests to tell prospective employers that IPL is just great with a long and amazing future ahead of it. This creates competition for their services as an employee. Telling prospective employers that IPL is about to fold weakens their bargaining position.
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
WRONG.
SC2 is just fine and has formed a nice little revenue stream for ATVI.
IPL is a money losing operation. Ziff Davis, and Newscorp want nothing to do with IPL.
The employees at THQ said everything was just fine. When employees tell me everything is just fine I take it with a grain of salt.
If IPL were making money this would be a non-issue. They could just hand the keys to David Ting and call it a day. However, IPL is losing money and needs a sugar daddy.
As the employees of IPL begin looking for other jobs it is within their best interests to tell prospective employers that IPL is just great with a long and amazing future ahead of it. This creates competition for their services as an employee. Telling prospective employers that IPL is about to fold weakens their bargaining position.
Which explains why IPL was planning 4 events this year as opposed to just 2 last year?
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
WRONG.
SC2 is just fine and has formed a nice little revenue stream for ATVI.
IPL is a money losing operation. Ziff Davis, and Newscorp want nothing to do with IPL.
The employees at THQ said everything was just fine. When employees tell me everything is just fine I take it with a grain of salt.
If IPL were making money this would be a non-issue. They could just hand the keys to David Ting and call it a day. However, IPL is losing money and needs a sugar daddy.
As the employees of IPL begin looking for other jobs it is within their best interests to tell prospective employers that IPL is just great with a long and amazing future ahead of it. This creates competition for their services as an employee. Telling prospective employers that IPL is about to fold weakens their bargaining position.
Which explains why IPL was planning 4 events this year as opposed to just 2 last year?
that plan was announced in december 2012 when they were still owned by IGN.com and Newscorp. in that same interview by GameSpot David Ting stated he could make 'no promises' if IGN.com is sold to someone else. pretty responsible move by David Ting to keep things real.
also, many of David Ting's future plans for IPL revolved around console titles due to their presence on IGN.com. with IGN.com selling IPL....
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
WRONG.
SC2 is just fine and has formed a nice little revenue stream for ATVI.
IPL is a money losing operation. Ziff Davis, and Newscorp want nothing to do with IPL.
The employees at THQ said everything was just fine. When employees tell me everything is just fine I take it with a grain of salt.
If IPL were making money this would be a non-issue. They could just hand the keys to David Ting and call it a day. However, IPL is losing money and needs a sugar daddy.
As the employees of IPL begin looking for other jobs it is within their best interests to tell prospective employers that IPL is just great with a long and amazing future ahead of it. This creates competition for their services as an employee. Telling prospective employers that IPL is about to fold weakens their bargaining position.
Which explains why IPL was planning 4 events this year as opposed to just 2 last year?
that plan was announced in december 2012 when they were still owned by IGN.com and Newscorp. in that same interview by GameSpot David Ting stated he could make 'no promises' if IGN.com is sold to someone else. pretty responsible move by David Ting to keep things real.
also, many of David Ting's future plans for IPL revolved around console titles due to their presence on IGN.com. with IGN.com selling IPL....
You seem to emphasise that IPL is not making money quite a lot. The thing is that's not really relevant. I can't say for sure, but MrBitter definitely said he thought NASL lost money last year yet they are continuing events. I'm pretty sure MLG only breaks even, yet they are continuing events. You have to remember that all of these tournaments are investments, and if the organisation investing in the tournament needs money desparately, they'll sell the investment to someone else. On top of that, your stupid assumption that MLG or NASL or Dreamhack or any other tournament would not know that IPL is going to fold is nonsensical. These are some of the biggest people in esports, they will information such as 'Has IPL been sold?'
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
WRONG.
SC2 is just fine and has formed a nice little revenue stream for ATVI.
IPL is a money losing operation. Ziff Davis, and Newscorp want nothing to do with IPL.
The employees at THQ said everything was just fine. When employees tell me everything is just fine I take it with a grain of salt.
If IPL were making money this would be a non-issue. They could just hand the keys to David Ting and call it a day. However, IPL is losing money and needs a sugar daddy.
As the employees of IPL begin looking for other jobs it is within their best interests to tell prospective employers that IPL is just great with a long and amazing future ahead of it. This creates competition for their services as an employee. Telling prospective employers that IPL is about to fold weakens their bargaining position.
Which explains why IPL was planning 4 events this year as opposed to just 2 last year?
that plan was announced in december 2012 when they were still owned by IGN.com and Newscorp. in that same interview by GameSpot David Ting stated he could make 'no promises' if IGN.com is sold to someone else. pretty responsible move by David Ting to keep things real.
also, many of David Ting's future plans for IPL revolved around console titles due to their presence on IGN.com. with IGN.com selling IPL....
You seem to emphasise that IPL is not making money quite a lot. The thing is that's not really relevant. I can't say for sure, but MrBitter definitely said he thought NASL lost money last year yet they are continuing events. I'm pretty sure MLG only breaks even, yet they are continuing events. You have to remember that all of these tournaments are investments, and if the organisation investing in the tournament needs money desparately, they'll sell the investment to someone else. On top of that, your stupid assumption that MLG or NASL or Dreamhack or any other tournament would not know that IPL is going to fold is nonsensical. These are some of the biggest people in esports, they will information such as 'Has IPL been sold?'
money is always relevant.
the more money an organization loses the higher the probability it will fold. that is how it is relevant.
NASL and IPL have nothing to do with each other. NASL is not highly integrated with a giant video game review web site. That said, how is that next NASL season coming along?
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
WRONG.
SC2 is just fine and has formed a nice little revenue stream for ATVI.
IPL is a money losing operation. Ziff Davis, and Newscorp want nothing to do with IPL.
The employees at THQ said everything was just fine. When employees tell me everything is just fine I take it with a grain of salt.
If IPL were making money this would be a non-issue. They could just hand the keys to David Ting and call it a day. However, IPL is losing money and needs a sugar daddy.
As the employees of IPL begin looking for other jobs it is within their best interests to tell prospective employers that IPL is just great with a long and amazing future ahead of it. This creates competition for their services as an employee. Telling prospective employers that IPL is about to fold weakens their bargaining position.
Which explains why IPL was planning 4 events this year as opposed to just 2 last year?
that plan was announced in december 2012 when they were still owned by IGN.com and Newscorp. in that same interview by GameSpot David Ting stated he could make 'no promises' if IGN.com is sold to someone else. pretty responsible move by David Ting to keep things real.
also, many of David Ting's future plans for IPL revolved around console titles due to their presence on IGN.com. with IGN.com selling IPL....
You seem to emphasise that IPL is not making money quite a lot. The thing is that's not really relevant. I can't say for sure, but MrBitter definitely said he thought NASL lost money last year yet they are continuing events. I'm pretty sure MLG only breaks even, yet they are continuing events. You have to remember that all of these tournaments are investments, and if the organisation investing in the tournament needs money desparately, they'll sell the investment to someone else. On top of that, your stupid assumption that MLG or NASL or Dreamhack or any other tournament would not know that IPL is going to fold is nonsensical. These are some of the biggest people in esports, they will information such as 'Has IPL been sold?'
money is always relevant.
the more money an organization loses the higher the probability it will fold. that is how it is relevant.
NASL and IPL have nothing to do with each other. That said, how is that next NASL season coming along?
They're waiting until HotS release. In the meantime, they're producing filler content in the form of The Pulse. It seems you didn't read my post, as I said most tournaments aren't profiting as it is an investment.
On February 27 2013 01:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote: and if NASL Season 4 had made money ... let's say.. in the way UFC 129 did.... NASL Season 5 would've started the next week.
once again.. making money is relevant.
and any time the "investor" behind this "investment" pulls the plug you end up with the Phoenix Coyotes.
No, if it had made money they still would have waited until HotS. Even if you do run a full season of NASL, you end up with one of two things. The players WoL skill is lower, as they have been practicing the HotS beta. Or the players HotS skill is lower, because they have been solely practicing WoL. Both of these things are bad, and I don't imagine NASL need to rush put each season. Stop making ridiculous claims as if you know what's going on. I don't know why you are putting investment in quotation marks, as that is what all these tournaments are.
IPL is losing money and is integrated with IGN.com. That integration is being severed. David Ting constantly lauded management for giving him "everything he could ask for''. The probability of finding someone not only with the MONEY but the SPECIALIZED RESOURCES IGN.com brought to IPL is very low. IPL will be jettisoned in a cost cutting decision and they will fold.
On February 27 2013 02:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its simple, stop the obfuscation.
IPL is losing money and is integrated with IGN.com. That integration is being severed. David Ting constantly lauded management for giving him "everything he could ask for''. The probability of finding someone not only with the MONEY but the SPECIALIZED RESOURCES IGN.com brought to IPL is very low. IPL will be jettisoned in a cost cutting decision and they will fold.
Sure thing. Thanks for the expert business analysis.
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
WRONG.
SC2 is just fine and has formed a nice little revenue stream for ATVI.
IPL is a money losing operation. Ziff Davis, and Newscorp want nothing to do with IPL.
The employees at THQ said everything was just fine. When employees tell me everything is just fine I take it with a grain of salt.
If IPL were making money this would be a non-issue. They could just hand the keys to David Ting and call it a day. However, IPL is losing money and needs a sugar daddy.
As the employees of IPL begin looking for other jobs it is within their best interests to tell prospective employers that IPL is just great with a long and amazing future ahead of it. This creates competition for their services as an employee. Telling prospective employers that IPL is about to fold weakens their bargaining position.
Which explains why IPL was planning 4 events this year as opposed to just 2 last year?
that plan was announced in december 2012 when they were still owned by IGN.com and Newscorp. in that same interview by GameSpot David Ting stated he could make 'no promises' if IGN.com is sold to someone else. pretty responsible move by David Ting to keep things real.
also, many of David Ting's future plans for IPL revolved around console titles due to their presence on IGN.com. with IGN.com selling IPL....
You seem to emphasise that IPL is not making money quite a lot. The thing is that's not really relevant. I can't say for sure, but MrBitter definitely said he thought NASL lost money last year yet they are continuing events. I'm pretty sure MLG only breaks even, yet they are continuing events. You have to remember that all of these tournaments are investments, and if the organisation investing in the tournament needs money desparately, they'll sell the investment to someone else. On top of that, your stupid assumption that MLG or NASL or Dreamhack or any other tournament would not know that IPL is going to fold is nonsensical. These are some of the biggest people in esports, they will information such as 'Has IPL been sold?'
money is always relevant.
the more money an organization loses the higher the probability it will fold. that is how it is relevant.
NASL and IPL have nothing to do with each other. NASL is not highly integrated with a giant video game review web site. That said, how is that next NASL season coming along?
Yeah everyone, trust JimmyJRaynor's pontifications over the word of kibbelz, catspajamas and David ting. Because after all, those three are just trying to increase their bargaining power as they search for new jobs. LOL
And now I will bow out of this thread, and I would advise anyone else arguing with Mr. Raynor to do the same, lest you make it appear like there's a legitimate debate to be had here.
On February 27 2013 02:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its simple, stop the obfuscation.
IPL is losing money and is integrated with IGN.com. That integration is being severed. David Ting constantly lauded management for giving him "everything he could ask for''. The probability of finding someone not only with the MONEY but the SPECIALIZED RESOURCES IGN.com brought to IPL is very low. IPL will be jettisoned in a cost cutting decision and they will fold.
Sure thing. Thanks for the expert business analysis.
If I were all of you guys I would start whenever you see JimmyJRaynor you ignore his posts on these topics. Seriously all he does is down talk it and talk about how x is dying and why sc2/esporst/whatever is dying. Just stop reading them he even made a blog how blizzard gave up on esports already lol.
"eSports" does not depend on Blizzard's involvement.
i predicted fewer over all events and an over all lower prize pool in 2013 compared to 2012 for Sc2. that has nothing to do with 'esports dying'.
there is no WCS for 2013.
if you think IPL will have a long and prosperous future because red bull is going to buy them and that the total prize pool for SC2 is staying the same or going up...say so ..but none of that has anything to do with SC2 "dying". or esports "dying".
as it is you've provided nothing to back up any counter argument. your smear job just lowers the signal to noise ratio of this thread.
On February 27 2013 05:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i dont use terms like "dying".
also, SC2 is just fine.
"eSports" does not depend on Blizzard's involvement.
i predicted fewer over all events and an over all lower prize pool in 2013 compared to 2012 for Sc2. that has nothing to do with 'esports dying'.
there is no WCS for 2013.
if you think IPL will have a long and prosperous future and that the total prize pool for SC2 is staying the same or going up...say so ..but none of that has anything to do with SC2 "dying". or esports "dying".
as it is you've provided nothing to back up any counter argument. your smear job just lowers the signal to noise ratio of this thread.
JimmyJRaynor no one cares about you anymore, you just run around calling your own speculations as evidence and proof when people time after time has proved you wrong. I'm so tired of calling you out on your bullshit that I can't even bother anymore.
On February 27 2013 05:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i dont use terms like "dying".
also, SC2 is just fine.
"eSports" does not depend on Blizzard's involvement.
i predicted fewer over all events and an over all lower prize pool in 2013 compared to 2012 for Sc2. that has nothing to do with 'esports dying'.
there is no WCS for 2013.
if you think IPL will have a long and prosperous future and that the total prize pool for SC2 is staying the same or going up...say so ..but none of that has anything to do with SC2 "dying". or esports "dying".
as it is you've provided nothing to back up any counter argument. your smear job just lowers the signal to noise ratio of this thread.
JimmyJRaynor no one cares about you anymore, you just run around calling your own speculations as evidence and proof when people time after time has proved you wrong. I'm so tired of calling you out on your bullshit that I can't even bother anymore.
how is THQ doing, how about the Phoenix Coyotes? how many games did the BLue Jays win last year? how was the Philadelphia Phillies offense? ya, thanks.
On February 27 2013 05:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i dont use terms like "dying".
also, SC2 is just fine.
"eSports" does not depend on Blizzard's involvement.
i predicted fewer over all events and an over all lower prize pool in 2013 compared to 2012 for Sc2. that has nothing to do with 'esports dying'.
there is no WCS for 2013.
if you think IPL will have a long and prosperous future and that the total prize pool for SC2 is staying the same or going up...say so ..but none of that has anything to do with SC2 "dying". or esports "dying".
as it is you've provided nothing to back up any counter argument. your smear job just lowers the signal to noise ratio of this thread.
JimmyJRaynor no one cares about you anymore, you just run around calling your own speculations as evidence and proof when people time after time has proved you wrong. I'm so tired of calling you out on your bullshit that I can't even bother anymore.
how is THQ doing, how about the Phoenix Coyotes? how many games did the BLue Jays win last year?
Why don't you ask them that individually, you will prolly get a better answer from them than from me
On February 27 2013 06:26 kollin wrote: How are any of those things even REMOTELY relevant?
direct response to an incorrect blanket statement. i added the philadelphia phillies offense. where i was called a "hater" for saying their offense would be average... they finished 8th in runs scored in the NL. part of my evidence was that Pat Gillick didnt like the team's offense either. I guess Gillick is an idiot.
the thing about claiming i am saying SC2 is dying is good for a laugh though.
On February 27 2013 05:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i predicted fewer over all events and an over all lower prize pool in 2013 compared to 2012 for Sc2. that has nothing to do with 'esports dying'.
there is no WCS for 2013.
Apparently you can't count past 1?
WCS is gone. Blizzcon is back. OSL is in. PL is in.
GSL's prize pool has increased slightly, IEM's has increased slightly. OSL and PL both have big prize pools.
On February 27 2013 06:29 kollin wrote: Ok sweet. Let me make some claims where I was correct without providing evidence!
it was all made on the TL.Net forum. do your own searching. i'm sure TL.Net could use the additional clicks.
furthermore, i'm countering a generalized blanket statement.
the Blue Jay debate was a long and ugly one...all along i said their pitching was crap and they traded away too much pitching.. then we got to august and then the arguing stopped.
On February 27 2013 06:26 kollin wrote: How are any of those things even REMOTELY relevant?
direct response to an incorrect blanket statement. i added the philadelphia phillies offense. where i was called a "hater" for saying their offense would be average... they finished 8th in runs scored in the NL. part of my evidence was that Pat Gillick didnt like the team's offense either. I guess Gillick is an idiot.
the thing about claiming i am saying SC2 is dying is good for a laugh though.
i think the question was how are any of those things remotely relevant.
Someone owe's Raynor an apology, he had it right the whole time. IPL is a money pit and no one wants anything to do with it.
No one owes him an apology, he was being an asshole and a troll the entire time. It does appear, though, that either IGN/Ziff Davis is being unbelievably stupid or they consider IPL to have very little value.
Someone owe's Raynor an apology, he had it right the whole time. IPL is a money pit and no one wants anything to do with it.
No one owes him an apology, he was being an asshole and a troll the entire time. It does appear, though, that either IGN/Ziff Davis is being unbelievably stupid or they consider IPL to have very little value.
Raynor was not being an asshole or a troll. He presented his opinions and got flamed for it. But alot of people here are too inexperienced / young / immature to see his points of view.
Someone owe's Raynor an apology, he had it right the whole time. IPL is a money pit and no one wants anything to do with it.
No one owes him an apology, he was being an asshole and a troll the entire time. It does appear, though, that either IGN/Ziff Davis is being unbelievably stupid or they consider IPL to have very little value.
You insult people so easily. You call Raynor asshole and troll, Ziff Davis stupid. You deserve ban more than Raynor.
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
On February 22 2013 11:29 CatsPajamas wrote: Hey everyone! Don't worry about us. ^__^ We're all still together and making content, and you'll know much more from us soon.
P.S. The speculation in this thread is hilarious to me. :D Don't fret, everyone.
You told us not to worry Kevin! Well, I'm worried right now.
On February 22 2013 11:29 CatsPajamas wrote: Hey everyone! Don't worry about us. ^__^ We're all still together and making content, and you'll know much more from us soon.
P.S. The speculation in this thread is hilarious to me. :D Don't fret, everyone.
On February 22 2013 23:39 Doodsmack wrote: OP needs to add catspajamas' post to the OP because people are still just assuming IPL is going to die lol.
Catspajamas isn't management. He doesn't make the decisions. He's gonna keep producing content until management tells him they're moving in another direction. I think IPL will continue to run until they exhausted their search for a buyer.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. I am management (and the 4th longest tenured employee at the IPL) and have known about this for weeks. :D We'll be letting everyone know more soon. The continued speculation in this thread is fun, guys, but hold on to your hats and you'll know more about our situation as soon as possible.
Assuming IPL6 is, in fact, canceled, I feel bad for all the folks who took off work, bought plane tickets, and booked hotel rooms to go there who will lose money due, in part, to your casual dismissal of folks' speculation about IPL and implied trust we should have in what you say because, as you said, you're "management" and have "known about [the IGN restructuring] for weeks". Well since you're management, you should probably be out there telling everyone what the story is so everyone can change their plans accordingly. If it's true that sponsor products are being returned, then at this point it seems like a done deal that IPL6 is not happening. I'm guessing you didn't know about this most recent development "for weeks", though, and it absolutely sucks for all involved (especially IPL leadership), but it's time to end the speculation.
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
I said IPL is sold not cancelled :D
Let's be honest, now, if this IPL is cancelled then the brand is basically worthless (possibly worse than worthless) and IGN has no chance of selling it to anyone.
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
Why don't you just apologize to JRaynor rather than keep this confrontational BS?
I mean it. He presented his ideas badly at times, but the guy was polite overall. He never made any personal attacks whereas you called his stuff BS and said he wasn't worth reading.
Hell, this entire forum has treated him badly. Even if he was an idiot, there were personal attacks on him that went unpunished whereas he got banned. He didn't curse at anyone or call anyone a idiot.
On February 24 2013 09:41 Dundron2000 wrote: [quote]
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
Why don't you just apologize to JRaynor rather than keep this confrontational BS?
I mean it. He presented his ideas badly at times, but the guy was polite overall. He never made any personal attacks whereas you called his stuff BS and said he wasn't worth reading.
Hell, this entire forum has treated him badly. Even if he was an idiot, there were personal attacks on him that went unpunished whereas he got banned. He didn't curse at anyone or call anyone a idiot.
That's what happens on TL.Net. All the good people gets bashed and then the admins bans them. He was too good for this forum and I'm certain that I, the admins and everyone on this forum one day will see all the great things he did and deeply regret it while we are burning in hell.
On February 24 2013 09:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
Why don't you just apologize to JRaynor rather than keep this confrontational BS?
I mean it. He presented his ideas badly at times, but the guy was polite overall. He never made any personal attacks whereas you called his stuff BS and said he wasn't worth reading.
Hell, this entire forum has treated him badly. Even if he was an idiot, there were personal attacks on him that went unpunished whereas he got banned. He didn't curse at anyone or call anyone a idiot.
That's what happens on TL.Net. All the good people gets bashed and then the admins bans them. He was too good for this forum and I'm certain that I, the admins and everyone on this forum one day will see all the great things he did.
Haha. There's no need to get that sarcastic. Relax bro. =]
I just felt unfair how badly he got flamed when he didn't make any personal attacks but there were people calling him an idiot.
On February 24 2013 09:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
Why don't you just apologize to JRaynor rather than keep this confrontational BS?
I mean it. He presented his ideas badly at times, but the guy was polite overall. He never made any personal attacks whereas you called his stuff BS and said he wasn't worth reading.
Hell, this entire forum has treated him badly. Even if he was an idiot, there were personal attacks on him that went unpunished whereas he got banned. He didn't curse at anyone or call anyone a idiot.
That's what happens on TL.Net. All the good people gets bashed and then the admins bans them. He was too good for this forum and I'm certain that I, the admins and everyone on this forum one day will see all the great things he did and deeply regret it while we are burning in hell.
Noooooooooo, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause such misery I shall find JRaynor and we shall beg God to forgive you D=
EDIT2: But in all seriousness, the guy never insulted anyone whereas other people did insult him. That's just how I see it. You can feel free to disagree, but it sounds silly to continue to drag this shit out and not to just kiss and make up.
On February 24 2013 12:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: [quote] It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
Why don't you just apologize to JRaynor rather than keep this confrontational BS?
I mean it. He presented his ideas badly at times, but the guy was polite overall. He never made any personal attacks whereas you called his stuff BS and said he wasn't worth reading.
Hell, this entire forum has treated him badly. Even if he was an idiot, there were personal attacks on him that went unpunished whereas he got banned. He didn't curse at anyone or call anyone a idiot.
That's what happens on TL.Net. All the good people gets bashed and then the admins bans them. He was too good for this forum and I'm certain that I, the admins and everyone on this forum one day will see all the great things he did.
Haha. There's no need to get that sarcastic. Relax bro. =]
I just felt unfair how badly he got flamed when he didn't make any personal attacks but there were people calling him an idiot.
On February 24 2013 12:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: [quote] It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
Why don't you just apologize to JRaynor rather than keep this confrontational BS?
I mean it. He presented his ideas badly at times, but the guy was polite overall. He never made any personal attacks whereas you called his stuff BS and said he wasn't worth reading.
Hell, this entire forum has treated him badly. Even if he was an idiot, there were personal attacks on him that went unpunished whereas he got banned. He didn't curse at anyone or call anyone a idiot.
That's what happens on TL.Net. All the good people gets bashed and then the admins bans them. He was too good for this forum and I'm certain that I, the admins and everyone on this forum one day will see all the great things he did and deeply regret it while we are burning in hell.
Noooooooooo, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause such misery I shall find JRaynor and we shall beg God to forgive you D=
The reason he probably got attacked/flamed so much is that literally every post I have seen from him lately is how sc2 is dying. Like no joke I rarely read a post that isn't "yeah sc2 is dying this proves it!" He also made a blog saying how blizzard gave up on esports (when their wcs was over for 2 months he made the blog saying they gave up!).
I am not to surprised at all he got so much negativity considering how negative he is posting :/.
On February 24 2013 16:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
Why don't you just apologize to JRaynor rather than keep this confrontational BS?
I mean it. He presented his ideas badly at times, but the guy was polite overall. He never made any personal attacks whereas you called his stuff BS and said he wasn't worth reading.
Hell, this entire forum has treated him badly. Even if he was an idiot, there were personal attacks on him that went unpunished whereas he got banned. He didn't curse at anyone or call anyone a idiot.
That's what happens on TL.Net. All the good people gets bashed and then the admins bans them. He was too good for this forum and I'm certain that I, the admins and everyone on this forum one day will see all the great things he did.
Haha. There's no need to get that sarcastic. Relax bro. =]
I just felt unfair how badly he got flamed when he didn't make any personal attacks but there were people calling him an idiot.
EDIT:
On March 02 2013 05:14 Integra wrote:
On March 02 2013 05:10 wklbishop wrote:
On March 02 2013 05:03 Integra wrote:
On March 01 2013 19:28 Kennigit wrote:
On February 24 2013 18:16 kollin wrote:
On February 24 2013 18:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On February 24 2013 17:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On February 24 2013 16:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: [quote]
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
Still want to do this??
Kennigit I'll do it. If IPL is cancelled then suspend me for 30 days.
However let's lay down some rules first:
First: by cancellation I mean IPL as a league, not removal of single games. The things reported so far is more signs of IPL downsizing the league, korean lol qualifiers are terminated for instance, but not Starcraft2, the deal with the hotels are gone and certain prize money along with products for some of the games has been returned to the sponsors. This is more signs of downsizing to fit the new expenses that the potential buyer has in mind than a actual cancellation.
Second: cancellation does not equal a postponement of the league within a reasonable time frame where the actual event at specified time is likely to actually happen. Let's say they find a buyer and need to postpone the event 10 days to a month and that everyone points at this actually will happen then it's not a cancellation. If however at the given time frame and the event still not happens then feel free to inflict the ban.
I'll give it to the mods to use their own discretion regarding appliance of the rules above and their own stance on it, and their final judgement.
Why don't you just apologize to JRaynor rather than keep this confrontational BS?
I mean it. He presented his ideas badly at times, but the guy was polite overall. He never made any personal attacks whereas you called his stuff BS and said he wasn't worth reading.
Hell, this entire forum has treated him badly. Even if he was an idiot, there were personal attacks on him that went unpunished whereas he got banned. He didn't curse at anyone or call anyone a idiot.
That's what happens on TL.Net. All the good people gets bashed and then the admins bans them. He was too good for this forum and I'm certain that I, the admins and everyone on this forum one day will see all the great things he did and deeply regret it while we are burning in hell.
Noooooooooo, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause such misery I shall find JRaynor and we shall beg God to forgive you D=
The reason he probably got attacked/flamed so much is that literally every post I have seen from him lately is how sc2 is dying. Like no joke I rarely read a post that isn't "yeah sc2 is dying this proves it!" He also made a blog saying how blizzard gave up on esports (when their wcs was over for 2 months he made the blog saying they gave up!).
I am not to surprised at all he got so much negativity considering how negative he is posting :/.
I counter with this:
On February 27 2013 05:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i dont use terms like "dying".
also, SC2 is just fine.
"eSports" does not depend on Blizzard's involvement.
i predicted fewer over all events and an over all lower prize pool in 2013 compared to 2012 for Sc2. that has nothing to do with 'esports dying'.
there is no WCS for 2013.
if you think IPL will have a long and prosperous future because red bull is going to buy them and that the total prize pool for SC2 is staying the same or going up...say so ..but none of that has anything to do with SC2 "dying". or esports "dying".
as it is you've provided nothing to back up any counter argument. your smear job just lowers the signal to noise ratio of this thread.
On February 26 2013 23:40 OptronX wrote: I really hope this doesn't mean IPL is "ending" as some people are saying. I've been watching IPL for awhile now and I really enjoy having viewing parties with my friends and enjoying the matches together. Let's all hope that these "interested parties" will acquire it successfully and not change too much about it other than the helping them be more financially stable.
IPL employees are saying they're fine, while two randoms in this thread are saying they're not (relying solely on assumptions about the decline of sc2 in general rather than any insider information). I know who I believe.
WRONG.
SC2 is just fine and has formed a nice little revenue stream for ATVI.
IPL is a money losing operation. Ziff Davis, and Newscorp want nothing to do with IPL.
The employees at THQ said everything was just fine. When employees tell me everything is just fine I take it with a grain of salt.
If IPL were making money this would be a non-issue. They could just hand the keys to David Ting and call it a day. However, IPL is losing money and needs a sugar daddy.
As the employees of IPL begin looking for other jobs it is within their best interests to tell prospective employers that IPL is just great with a long and amazing future ahead of it. This creates competition for their services as an employee. Telling prospective employers that IPL is about to fold weakens their bargaining position.
That said. Look. He came off as an idiot because he presented his ideas badly. But you admit that people were attacking and flaming him whereas he didn't flame anyone. And to me you guys came off as bullies more than anything.
Here's someone who's pretty confrontational and wants to bet on bans, but here's his response:
and as you know Ziff-Davis is trying to sell the league.
although why any one would buy it to lose money for 5 years is beyond me.
IPLs previous "value proposition" was that it drew traffic to IGN.com. ZD announced their alternative method of attracting that same traffic is by simply reporting on eSPorts events rather than paying out the prize money.
well you said it yourself, 5 years from profitability.. so "losing" money for 5 years isnt really true, rather it means you will make money in the future to compensate for the initial costs. so it has more to do with short versus long term investement strategies rather than "sugar daddies".
ya well there are 5 million assumptions that go into this "plan for profitability" any one can lose money. the tricky part is making it.
if IPLs plan look like a sure thing to you then put together a group of investors and laugh all ur way to the bank.
It's worth noting that most business (even small ones) are not profitable until a long time after they are established, simply by the nature of start up costs.
While IPL may have put in $1million last year, a lot of that will be the cost of setting up infrastructure, hiring and training the employees, buying the required equipment, etc.
and many businesses never see a profit and just go out of business.
so far 2 big corporations are not willing to wait: Newscorp and ZiffDavis. and their actions speak louder than your words.
Yes...and?
If almost all businesses take a long time to offset start-up costs, and if some businesses close down after a short period, it stands to reason that some businesses close down without being profitable.
This is technically what investing is all about: Losing short term money with the prospect of gaining in the long term.
and IGN and the league it owns IPL was shopped around for months and months with Newscorp unable to find a buyer. finally it went to auction.
no one thinks IPL is going to make some big turnaround.
if you do... you should get some friends together and buy it.. because at this point its available for pennies on the dollar.
OK you seem pretty confident, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If IPL is sold, you get a 30 day ban. If IPL isn't sold, I get a 30 day ban.
buy is a ubiquitous term in this case.... whoever "buys" it has to put on 1 event of the scale of IPL5.
you do not deserve a ban though. you are polite and pretty measured in what you are saying... you are just incorrect.. that is not a crime.
EDIT: It's the mods decision to ban a guy or not. I just wanted to defend someone who to me (a third party) I felt bad for because of all the attacks and hate he got.
The thing is he was so, so persistent when we has smacked every factors argument he had presented into the ground. Much like AnomalySc2, the mindless statements made without anything backing them up were extremely annoying.
On March 02 2013 05:30 kollin wrote: The thing is he was so, so persistent when we has smacked every factors argument he had presented into the ground. Much like AnomalySc2, the mindless statements made without anything backing them up were extremely annoying.
The way he argued his position was actually quite speculative by drawing parallels to somewhat related situations. Up front that sounds BS and in a way it is. But that's actually how a lot of analysts speculate minus the going through 10-k files and all. LOLs.
From my vantage point, I spend a lot of time arguing with no concrete facts other than speculation and trying to make money off of that. So I don't find it annoying tbh, tbh I see it as the only way to figure things out when there's such asymmetric information. Maybe it's a difference of opinion and position (i.e. careers).
Of course, like I said. Such speculation is bound to be wrong OFTEN. It's just that it allows you to be a genius when you're right and make tons of money. So not annoying to me. I guess I saw it different than you guys.
There is so so many problems with trying to sell the IPL to someone.
- It loses money rather then earning money. - The name itself is pretty much worthless to anyone but IGN. - If IGN dumped IPL and it's employees you could just hire them to start your own unless they have a non compete that has some ridiculous amount of years attached to it. Sort of like when TBS contracted with Conan after his non compete / contract ran out.
The only buyers I could see for the IPL as it is now without changing it drastically would be a media outlet of some sort, or some completely out of left field rich esports fanatic. The 2nd of course assuming the price tag was extremely reasonable for a division of IGN that eats money rather then makes it.
Yes, because that's what esports tournaments are. I challenge you to find one tournament that reliably makes decent amounts of profit off esports tournaments. I wish you luck in doing so.
Seems like they only do reruns of WOL stuff thats like a month old. Will they produce any HOTS content? If no why rerun the old WOL stuff around the clock?
So, will they produce HOTS content or are they done with SC2?
On March 22 2013 11:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: Whats up with IGN atm?
Seems like they only do reruns of WOL stuff thats like a month old. Will they produce any HOTS content? If no why rerun the old WOL stuff around the clock?
So, will they produce HOTS content or are they done with SC2?
gg yall
They probably as done with SC2 as you are with Hercules
On March 22 2013 11:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: Whats up with IGN atm?
Seems like they only do reruns of WOL stuff thats like a month old. Will they produce any HOTS content? If no why rerun the old WOL stuff around the clock?
So, will they produce HOTS content or are they done with SC2?
gg yall
They probably as done with SC2 as you are with Hercules
LOL nice one. I chuckled. Luckily I kept practicing the special handshake in case they need my suave self on tv again.
on point ; it sucks because if they somewhat lacked in quality, quantity of content was nice.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WYbPK2q.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L3LSimx.png)
