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i think it sets an extremely poor precedence for an organization within a sport to not only allow a player who has been caught and has admitted to cheating because he thought it a worthwhile venture, but to actually invite him to a tournament. there are plenty of other NA players of comparable caliber that don't cheat.
when you set an example where there are absolutely no repercussions for cheating it probably has a bad influence on a lot of members of the community. in addition it is a slap to the face of all the people who has to face this menace on a weekly basis on ladder.
a lack of a clear stand against hacking / cheating from the bigger organizations in the starcraft 2 industry will be hurting our community in the long run.
personally i don't think i will stand for it if mlg goes through with it. for me would be a principal matter. maybe one of the few principles that i am currently aware that i have.
(aka they could have 1 less potential viewer, oh noes).
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So did he MH on ladder to get higher rank to procure an invite, or was he just MH for shits n giggles?
Bad either way, for sure, but the former is definitely not forgivable.
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On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote:
I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
i don't think there's much room for interpretation of his motive.
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On February 16 2013 00:19 Nekovivie wrote:
So did he MH on ladder to get higher rank to procure an invite, or was he just MH for shits n giggles?
Bad either way, for sure, but the former is definitely not forgivable.
He did it to appease a sponsor when he was not in shape to compete.
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On February 16 2013 00:21 pigmanbear wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 00:19 Nekovivie wrote:
So did he MH on ladder to get higher rank to procure an invite, or was he just MH for shits n giggles?
Bad either way, for sure, but the former is definitely not forgivable. He did it to appease a sponsor when he was not in shape to compete.
or simplified: for monetary gain.
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On February 16 2013 00:23 nunez wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 00:21 pigmanbear wrote:On February 16 2013 00:19 Nekovivie wrote:
So did he MH on ladder to get higher rank to procure an invite, or was he just MH for shits n giggles?
Bad either way, for sure, but the former is definitely not forgivable. He did it to appease a sponsor when he was not in shape to compete. or simplified: for monetary gain.
That is too reductionist. What would you have him do? You would have him lose what keeps putting food on the table for him because he MH-ed on ladder? This isn't like Spades or previous hackers that hacked in tournaments, this has been occuring for 2 weeks and only on ladder. The sponsor asked him to do it, it put him in a bind, but he doesn't have the integrity to necessarily care about ladder. Just boiling it down to monetary gain is way overboard on the reductions.
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Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
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i don't agree. the reason he hacked on ladder was monetary gain. and yes, there is a context, but speculating about the context is pointless now, because in my eyes Daisuki now has 0 integrity.
edit: i don't agree with docvoc, but i completely agree with gowswer. again in my eyes Daisuki now has 0 integrity, and when a hacker says he only hacked for this long because of this and that, it is in my experience complete bullshit 100% of the time. check the gm / master hacker thread for reference.
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On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote:
Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
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he already has no integrity, the OP is testimony to this.
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On February 16 2013 00:31 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote:
Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove. Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
He got caught cheating. There is enough suspicion to toss those ""ideas"" around.
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On February 16 2013 00:31 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote:
Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove. Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
There is nothing to prevent him from hacking against me in an online bo5 though. And it would be very very hard to prove if he just hacks to ensure he is always safe and always drones fully.
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On February 16 2013 00:31 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote:
Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove. Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
He's not theory crafting about Daisuki having no integrity, it's kind of obvious he has none based on the fact he hacked on ladder... I mean for God's sake Goswser is not saying he hacked in online tour for sure, but it's a possibility for sure. I think he's right, if you really want to hide and make it less obvious, it's fairly easy. All he would need is production tab and with zerg, you only need to know when you're safe to drone to get a huge advantage in some scenarios so... Kind of hard to prove.
I wrote before in this thread that we shouldn't make a big deal out of this, cause I assumed he would lay low for a while, but if he's still competing, it just feels wrong.
I hope MLG will do the right thing there.
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btw, there could something pretty fishy with NITRIXenergy going on here.
what i have been told per mail is pretty peculiar considering the actual circumstances.
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Why does the motive of cheating even matter? Cheating is unforgivable in a competitive game.
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On February 16 2013 00:44 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 00:31 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote:
Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove. Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude. There is nothing to prevent him from hacking against me in an online bo5 though. And it would be very very hard to prove if he just hacks to ensure he is always safe and always drones fully.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Suppose I am a convicted murderer. Then suppose one of my friends is murdered. Is it right to punish me for that murder, too? Certainly not. To be suspicious, certainly, but to act in the same way as if I had committed the crime definitively is unjustified.
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On February 16 2013 00:54 nunez wrote:btw, there could something pretty fishy with NITRIXenergy going on here. what i have been told per mail is pretty peculiar considering the actual circumstances.
i still stand by my statement that the sponsor should take a hit from this too. this email does nothing but strengthen my argument
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@shiori
why make poor analogies, when instead you can talk about the matter at hand directly.
it's not about murder it's about playing online tournaments for money vs a guy who is a known hacker.
clearly you'd rather play people who is NOT a known hacker.
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On February 16 2013 01:00 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 00:44 goswser wrote:On February 16 2013 00:31 docvoc wrote:On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote:
Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove. Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude. There is nothing to prevent him from hacking against me in an online bo5 though. And it would be very very hard to prove if he just hacks to ensure he is always safe and always drones fully. Innocent until proven guilty. Suppose I am a convicted murderer. Then suppose one of my friends is murdered. Is it right to punish me for that murder, too? Certainly not. To be suspicious, certainly, but to act in the same way as if I had committed the crime definitively is unjustified.
... That analogy lol
Also, he has been proven guilty of map hacking. Just not in online tournaments (yet). We don't know for sure if he did, the point is just that since there's no way to tell (if he is careful enough) if he is hacking or not, it ruins the competition to have a player like him in high level brackets.
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On February 16 2013 01:05 nunez wrote:
@shiori
why make poor analogies, when instead you can talk about the matter at hand directly.
it's not about murder it's about playing online tournaments for money vs a guy who is a known hacker.
clearly you'd rather play people who is NOT a known hacker.
I don't disagree, I'm just trying to add a little perspective. He should be banned from online tournies.
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EPT
