I believe that a high-level player, Daisuki (Liquipedia page), is maphacking on NA GM ladder under two accounts, both of which are called NITRIXeDRINK. This is not an accusation I make lightly, as I think a player's reputation is very important and in the past people have made careless accusations based on circumstantial evidence. As such, we will look in-depth at evidence across a variety of replays to show the following: that Daisuki is the player using the accounts named NITRIXeDRINK, and that he is using some form of maphacking software in his ladder games. In addition to my own investigations and analysis, a variety of top 16 GM and professional players have gone over these replays as well and unanimously agree that Daisuki is hacking.
Daisuki is well-known for getting 2nd place at WCS USA tournament in June 2012, and winning an online tournament sponsored by NITRIX Energy Drink (they also personally sponsor him). He is also a self-advertised account booster and leveler (screencap of his TwitchTV bio). The first player to talk to me about the possibility of him maphacking was frostSwarm, a top 16 GM Zerg who played a series of games on ladder against Daisuki and was puzzled by a bizarre lack of scouting and frequent massing of spine crawlers to defend unscouted attacks.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
At this point, I started working to gather replays of games played by these 2 accounts (NITRIXeDRINK) to investigate more seriously and start compiling evidence. Before we jump into the replays and evidence, there's a few things I'd like to preemptively address:
1) Daisuki does have a livestream on Twitch.TV (http://www.twitch.tv/daisukisc2). However, he only streams games on accounts he is leveling or on an account called NITRIXdsuki (sc2ranks link) – this account is low GM with a 50% winrate. He has never streamed on either of the NITRIXeDRINK accounts, both of which are top 16 GM ranked as of 2/7/2013 (screencap of GM rankings).
2) The hotkeys and APM spam cycles used on the NITRIXeDRINK accounts (there are two accounts: sc2ranks here and sc2ranks there) exactly match the hotkeys used on his NITRIXDaisuki account while he is streaming, with one small difference – there is an extra control group that contains all his queens used for auto-injects. His hotkey profile is:
1 – Zerglings 2 – Corruptors / Broodlords 3 – Infestors 4 – All hatcheries 5 – Queen 6 – Queen 7 - Queen 9 – All queens (this hotkey is only used on the maphacking accounts NITRIXeDRINK) 0 – Misc utility hotkey
Here is a screencap of his hotkeys taken from his most recent Stream VoD: imgur link.
3) Additionally, here is a TeamLiquid thread where Daisuki says he is the player using the NITRIX accounts ("I AM NITRIX"). Here is an imgur mirror of the thread (imgur mirror). More significantly, he includes replays on the NITRIXeDRINK account in his replay pack. Here is a short video demonstrating that both of the top 16 GM NITRIXeDRINK are name changes from accounts that he shared in his replay pack:
Now, having established that NITRIXDaisuki is playing on both of the NITRIXeDRINK accounts, we will examine a variety of replays and point out the suspicious behavior in each one.
The first bizarre thing in this replay is his overlord placement – he sends his very first overlord on a straight path through the Protoss main, and then never looks at it again. This includes not checking the natural to see if his opponent went forge first or Nexus first and not checking the gas timings at the Protoss natural at any point. Every other overlord he makes stays clustered up in this main base and natural – this is a level of blindness that is inexplicable at any GM level, let alone top 16. Zerg is an incredibly reactive race and without information like seeing if the Protoss went Nexus first or forge first, the timings of his 3rd / 4th gas, or if he is taking a 3rd it would be impossible to make proper decisions.
The second suspicious activity in this replay also occurs early on – the Protoss player, Werelf, has a probe hidden at the vertical 3rd base. NITRIXeDRINK attack moves all 4 of his Zerglings directly on top of the probe without having had vision of it going there. It's important to note that EVERY single high-level Zerg player who makes 4 lings would either send them all to pressure a Nexus first or split them up to scout. Here is where the probe is hanging out:
Here is where he clicks to send his Zerglings:
Some people might make the argument that he is just blindly clearing out his 3rd base – this would be plausible except that isn't the 3rd base he takes:
From 5:15 until the very end of the game, he plays 100% in the dark – this means no units on the uncontested watch towers, no overlords on the map (besides the very first overlord which has not looked at once and is in a useless location anyways – see picture 4)
Strategically, some fishy but non-conclusive stuff happens between 6:00 and 10:00 mark that I'll briefly discuss. First, he goes for a blind 2x Evolution Chamber and skips Roach Warren entirely – this would be an automatic loss to any +1 zealot pressure build or all-in. Secondly, he delays his lair until 9:15 – this would also result in auto-losses against DT play (no detection) and 2-base Colossus pushes (no Spire). Thirdly, in spite of being absolutely blind, he hasn't built any Spore Crawlers at any of his bases (in case of DT / Stargate play). However, although quite unusual, as I said this is non-conclusive – it could just be blind greedy play or a coinflip.
Let's get to the good and more conclusive stuff: at the 11:00 mark, his Protoss opponent is gearing up for a 2-base Blink stalker + immortal all-in. Responding to an all-in that he does not know is coming, Daisuki builds 5 blind spine crawlers at his 3rd base. Again, just to reiterate how much scouting information Daisuki has this game, here is a screen shot of his vision when he dropped these spines:
He has no information about whether Protoss is taking a 3rd (with either Overlord or Zergling), he has no information about the gas timings at the Protoss natural, and he has no information about anything inside the main base of the Protoss (besides the fact that there is a Nexus). Up until this point, we have had an unusual lack of scouting, some suspicious Zergling movements, and a large number of corners being cut (no Roach Warren, no Lair). Building 5 spine crawlers in preparation of an all-in which hasn't been scouted (there haven't even been any attempts to scout either) crosses the line beyond taking a calculated risk.
At 11:10, Daisuki looks halfway across the map through the fog of war precisely at Werelf's army – see the following two screenshots showing Daisuki's perspective and the global perspective:
At 11:30, after several more fog of war peeks at the Protoss player's army, he prepares a ling surround for an army that he has never once had vision of. After setting up the surround, he finally attacks at 11:47 and gains vision of the army that he has been prepared to engage 20 seconds before he knew it existed.
This game, by the way, is the only loss in a page full of wins against rank 50 or higher GM players:
So although he loses this game due to poor macro, he is consistently winning the rest of his games on ladder. Let us continue looking at more replays:
This replay is even more suspicious than the first one - we'll begin by noting that Caliber plays Random (http://sc2ranks.com/us/365740/TossBoy) so his race is unknown (Caliber confirmed that he was playing Random every game he played against NITRIXeDRINK).
Once again, Daisuki plays completely blind – he sends his first overlord to a corner on Caliber's half of the map and never looks at it again. Caliber opens with a 2-rax (built on 12 and 13 supply, in his base) that Daisuki never scouts, yet responds to blindly. As soon as his spawning pool finishes, he goes into constant Zergling production and as soon as his natural hatchery finishes, he drops a spine crawler (this is all without seeing anything other than a scouting SCV, which he also follows with two drones). He drops a second spine crawler shortly after as well.
After defending Caliber's 2-rax, both players macro for a while and Caliber then builds a bunker at Daisuki's 3rd base (see picture 1 below for the positioning). This bunker is completely unscouted by Daisuki – yet when he goes to build a 3rd, he builds it at what is normally a 4th or 5th base. (see picture 2 below for Daisuki's 3rd base, also includes Caliber commenting on the strangeness of Daisuki's spine crawler timing).
Shortly after this, at roughly 8:40 Daisuki sends two queens and all of his Zerglings to the standard 3rd base and preemptively splits his units to get a surround of the bunker which he does not know exists. See the picture below for what this looks like as well as an example of Daisuki's vision at this time in the game.
At 10:22, there is a direct fog of war peek on Caliber's army. Below are Daisuki's vision and global vision at this moment:
At 10:48, he attack moves his entire army (which were working on taking down his rocks) to his 3rd base to defend 6 hellions before he has vision of them. The timing on this one is very close, so watch it frame by frame if you need to.
At 15:00, he looks through the fog of war for one of Caliber's Medivacs, then sends all his Mutalisks directly to intercept it.
At 3:35, Daisuki sends all 4 of his Zerglings directly on top of a probe that is hidden at his 4th base. See the two pictures below:
The probe then moves a tiny bit to the right, and Daiuski issues another attack command, again right next to the probe.
At 8:40, several seconds after his opponent drops a 3rd Nexus, he drops a 4th hatchery without scouting his opponent's 3rd.
At 10:15, he starts making units for the first time in the game, coincidentally lined up perfectly with his opponent's first move out on the map. He initially rallies them to his opponent's watch tower, where his opponent's army is, then re-rallies them to his 4th base after his opponent starts to move there.
At 12:25, he directly looks at his opponent's army through the fog of war. He is not issuing any commands with any of his units while doing this. See the two pictures below for his vision and global vision:
At 13:05, his opponent says “why do u pretend like u dont maphack when its so obvious.” Daisuki responds to this by sending a Zergling to his opponent's watch tower for the first time all game. This isn't really evidence of anything, I just thought it was funny.
This game features Daisuki using confirmed automatic injects. I won't bother discussing strategical oddities or fog of war peeks or anything like that for this replay. Instead, you can see at multiple instances in the game hatcheries being injected by queens without the queens ever being selected. Daisuki's camera is rarely on the hatcheries being auto-injected either, which normally wouldn't mean anything (minimap injects are not unheard of at high-levels) but still requires the Queen's to be selected. The most obvious one is at roughly 10:40~ at his 3rd hatchery – here is a short YouTube video I made showing this:
.
Note: this replay was played on 2/7/2013 and is the only one where individual queens are not hotkeyed (which would make sense given that he is using automatic injects). Otherwise, the hotkeys match Daisuki's.
As I do not understand ZvZ at a high-level, this analysis was performed by frostSwarm with the help of other top GM Zergs:
At 5:45, he begins making blind units beyond the standard threshold of 4 defensive lings to prepare for an unscouted Zergling and Baneling pressure (normally, you would not make more than 4 defensive Zerglings unless you were going to be aggressive – which would be impossible with Daisuki's fast lair / delayed speed timing). At 7:40, he begins mass producing spine crawlers at his natural in preparation for an unscouted Roach / Zergling / Baneling all-in. All of these spine crawlers are queued up and produced before Daisuki scouts any unit production or unit movement on the map.
Additionally, he keeps all of his overlords besides the first one at home, which is inexplicable in high-level ZvZ. His first overlord, which as usual he never looks at, is rallied to the edge of the map where it provides no scouting information.
In order to prevent this post from becoming too bloated, I will not be including pictures in most of the remaining replay analysis – just time stamps and descriptions of the suspicious behavior.
Scouting overlord never gets vision of Minigun's base (just sits in the corner, never sees probes, mining, or buildings until 7:15)
8:30: Blind preparation for Strargate play (pulls overlords into his main before vision of void ray / Phoenix, builds extra queens at every hatchery once Minigun's Stargate finishes, pulls transferring drones back to his main)
9:15-9:20: Multiple, prolonged fog of war peeks checking Minigun's natural, then his main base directly on top of recently add production.
11:40: Issues Zerglings an attack command to Minigun's 3rd base, then fog of war peeks at his natural (where he sees 3 undefended sentries and probes being transferred) and attacks there instead
Replay #7: TossBoy (CaliberLighT) vs NITRIXeDRINK (Entombed Valley ZvP http://drop.sc/302253)
0:07: Sends first overlord directly to Caliber's base on cross spawn Entombed Valley
0:15: Readjusts overlord to scout vertically
0:40: Drops 6 pool
1:20: Leaves the game after Caliber builds his first pylon in main and scouts
This replay also features automatic injects – see 8:10 at Daisuki's natural for an example where a hatchery gets injected without him selecting the Queen (this was the first time I noticed auto-injects in this game, but I wasn't looking specifically for them in this replay so they could happen again earlier on).
At 9:00 he plants and saturates a 4th base in response to an unscouted Protoss 3rd base. At 11:00 he prepares a ling surround for an army he doesn't know exists. At 13:38 there is fog of war peeking. At 15:15 Daisuki blindly attacks Potiguar's 4th base without scouting it and without checking for a 4th base at the normal location.
At 15:25 there is a long camera lock. At 20:24 he looks through the fog of war at a Zealot runby harass and moves his army into position. At 21:08, looks through the fog of war at army and throws up defensive Infested Terrans in preparation for an engagement with an army he doesn't know exists. At 24:11 his camera jumps over the Protoss army for a brief second. At 24:51 there is more fog of war looking at the Protoss army. At 25:54 there is another fog of war peek over the Protoss army. At 26:50 there is another fog of war peek at 4 hidden Zealots for harassment. At 27:00 he moves infestors towards the hidden Zealot harassment squad. At 29:00 he sends his army to defend his 5th base for the first time just as the Protoss is about to discover it. At 30:55 he looks through fog of war at more Zealot harassment.
Additional notes of general suspicious behavior:
- Not once in the 30+ replays I watched does he ever morph an overseer for scouting purposes (compare to him playing on his stream, where he plays normally holding watch towers and scouting with changelings). The only time he morphs overseers at all is to deal with cloaked units that he has not scouted.
- Similarly, he never builds spines or spore crawlers unless his opponent is going for either an all-in (which he doesn't scout coming) or cloaked units (which he doesn't scout coming).
- He rarely holds watch towers, and a majority of his games he keeps all of his overlords clumped up at his bases.
- He never boxes his mineral lines to check for saturation; maphacks include a feature that displays your saturation levels at each base, which would explain why he always has near-perfect saturation levels without ever checking them.
- Every single time he is getting 2-raxed, he either goes 14 gas / 14 pool or hatch first with blind spine crawlers and Zergling production. This has happened in 5+ games just over the past few days. He consistently matches his openers up against his opponent without scouting, sometimes without even knowing what race they are.
Baiting a Reaction:
After looking at the above replays, I spread the word to a group of GM players that if they hit a NITRIXeDRINK account on ladder, they should do unorthodox builds or cheeses so that we can see his reactions. Here are replays of those games and explanations of what happened, as well as more replays of him countering his opponent's blindly:
ovoxo vs NITRIXeDRINK (Daybreak TvZ http://drop.sc/303164): ovoxo goes for proxy 11-11 rax, NITRIXeDRINK goes for 14 gas 14 pool with a drone scout directly to where the Barracks are being built. This is the only replay in the 30+ that I have watched where he drone scouts. Please note at 2:20 that he issues an attack command with his drone directly on top of where the proxy barracks are before he has seen them:
city vs NITRIXeDRINK (Antiga Shipyard PvZ http://drop.sc/303165): city goes for double Stargate play, hiding both of them and massing Void Rays while denying scouting with Stalkers (although NITRIXeDRINK only has overlord on the map anyways, and it is rallied to a corner of the map where he ignores it for the entire game). NITRIXeDRINK goes blind hydralisks. Additionally, there is a prolonged game of fog of war cat and mouse at 7:40-8:00 at city's natural: city moves his Zealots + Sentries forward, Daisuki pulls his Zerglings back, city pulls his units back, Daisuki moves his forward, etc. Note how Daisuki dances in time with his opponent's units through the fog of war.
JCKE vs NITRIXeDRINK (Cloud Kingdom PvZ http://drop.sc/302758): This replay was not one of the attempts to bait a reaction, but it is an example of blind countering. JCKE goes for double Stargate, which remains unscouted the entire game, NITRIXeDRINK goes blind hydralisks. These are the only two replays in the 30+ that I've watched where he builds blind hydralisks.
Fugazi vs NITRIXeDRINK (Daybreak TvZ http://drop.sc/302256): Daisuki doesn't scout with his first overlord and blindly goes double hatch first (his opponent was going CC first). Daisuki also never scouts whether his opponent is going mech or bio, but blindly goes into mass upgraded roaches.
ROOTMinigun vs NITRIXeDRINK (Entombed Valley PvZ http://drop.sc/303166): Daisuki early pools. Daisuki sends his Zerglings to attack the rocks at Minigun's natural while Minigun builds 2 Zealots. Minigun sends the Zealots across the map to scout, Daisuki fog of war peeks at Minigun's natural, stops attacking the rocks, and kills Minigun's undefended cannon. He then adds on extra Zerglings back home while positioning his Queens to defend Minigun's Zealots (which he hasn't had vision of).
NITRIXeDRINK vs city (Antiga Shipyard PvZ [this replay will be uploaded shortly]): Daisuki 9-pools, his opponent goes gateway first, and Daisuki just drones instead of making Zerglings (without scouting his opponent). 9-pool is not a macro opening so making this kind of transition without any scouting is inexplicable.
NITRIXeDRINK vs keydPotiguar (Ohana PvZ http://drop.sc/302997): At 7:40 he sends Zerglings to where a probe was previously hidden, realizes the probe has moved, and adjusts the Zerglings to chase a probe that he doesn't know exists, let alone its whereabouts. At 9:20 he takes a blind 4th base just as the Protoss starts a 3rd base, without scouting the Protoss 3rd base. At 13:35, he starts adding spines in his main base as soon as the first warp prism is in production (this could be coincidence), although he also adds another round of spines after production is started on a second warp prism. At 16:35, he moves his whole army from one spine wall to another to get into position for a Protoss attack he is unaware of.
NITRIXeDRINK vs keydPotiguar (Newkirk District PvZ http://drop.sc/302994): At 8:15 produces 24 Zerglings as soon as a Proxy pylon for 4-gate pressure is set up at watch tower – he is doing this blind, with no scouting of the Protoss natural gases or main base. At 10:15 he sends his army straight to an oddly placed unscouted pylon – his click is almost directly on top of it. Please note and contrast his unit production this game with the previous game: when the Protoss takes a 3rd base, he blindly takes a 4th and drones it. When the Protoss is doing a 2-base all-in, he blindly mass produces units. At 11:00, he starts massing spine crawlers blindly for an incoming unscouted all-in – this could be coincidental. At 18:50 he drops a Spire right after Colossus bay is dropped (this could be coincidental).
NITRIXeDRINK vs keydPotiguar (Newkirk District PvZ http://drop.sc/302996): At 8:20, he builds spore crawlers blindly as his opponent is producing a DT shrine. Note that in none of the other replays or matches has he ever built blind spore crawlers. At 8:40, he fog of war peeks over a proxy pylon and sends his whole army directly to it. Also, please compare his reaction this game to a 2-gas Protoss with his reaction in the previously analyzed game to a 2-gas Protoss; when genuine 4-gate pressure was incoming, he blindly massed units. When he is facing a DT build that looks, from his vision, identical to the build he faced the prior game, he has minimal units and blind spore crawlers. At 9:30 he morphs an Overseer in his main base (he did not build a blind spore in his main, it's possible he saw the DT walking on creep to his main so this is non-conclusive).
In addition to these replays which I and other high-level players have analyzed, there are even more replays that have not been analyzed / discussed in this post (most of them can be found on drop.sc: account 1 and account 2). Anyone who has more replays of themselves vs NITRIXeDRINK is welcome to post them in this thread, and I will add them to this section here. We believe this hacking is something that has only started recently, so please do not post old replays as evidence of him not hacking.
PvZ submitted by JCKE: http://drop.sc/302999. "He did 7 pool or something, made 6 lings, and backed off without even checking what my ramp had because i made 2 cannons + pulled probes to block."
I was going to have a section here about the community reaction, but it's pretty much the same thing again and again so I removed this section.
Thank you for reading this novella of a post, and I hope that the evidence and analysis above is satisfactory. I would like to give special thanks to frostSwarm, Jing Quix Wu, NoRegreT, MoosegillsLighT, Minigun, keydPotiguar, CaliberLighT, city, FXODrunkenboi, Hendralisk, and a few others who wished to remain anonymous for their help in analyzing and providing replays.
Brief remark (see what I did there) on your post: Vibe was the WCS NA runner up to Scarlett Daisuki was second at WCS US (I believe). But I have to say your investigation looks very thorough and the evidence seems to point to him as a maphacker.
On February 09 2013 06:57 Darkhoarse wrote: Brief remark (see what I did there) on your post: Vibe was the WCS NA runner up to Scarlett Daisuki was second at WCS US (I believe). But I have to say your investigation looks very thorough and the evidence seems to point to him as a maphacker.
Thank you for catching that, it has been fixed now.
On February 09 2013 07:01 RazeriaN wrote: I think that is really sad to maphack when you're in the higher levels. Hopefully its just a random maphacker smurf and not the real dude.
Hotkey analysis showed it's absolutely the same person
I was sharpening my pitchfork and setting my torches on fire, and now I have a reason to use them! But the evidence is pretty damn strong, so it looks like it is true.
This evidence looks pretty damn conclusive. I will have to watch the replays when I get home, but it looks pretty obvious to me that he is map hacking. VERY good work here. I don't know why people continue to do this, we WILL find you.
This does look convincing. Thank you for spending the time to put together a real argument rather then just posting "Hey guys, he's a maphacker. QED". I would like to see Daisuki reply to this at least before I seal my judgement.
Doesn't look good for him, sadly. He obviously still plays well alone, as shown by his event runs... but still doesn't excuse this. Would like to hear his side.
lots of work done in here. evidence is pretty conclusive. let's see what daisuki has to say ! i just dont understand it, if you are good enough to be GM without maphacking, why would you use maphack ?
With a pretty big result in 2nd at WCS USA and a personal sponsorship I'd really like to hear from daisuki why he'd maphack this is pretty damning stuff.
The question I ask myself is, what is his motivation for doing this? He is obviously really good, since he only lost to Vibe in WCS USA. So sad that it seems to be true.
On February 09 2013 07:15 Fusilero wrote: With a pretty big result in 2nd at WCS USA and a personal sponsorship I'd really like to hear from daisuki why he'd maphack this is pretty damning stuff.
I feel much the same way.
Besides, was WCS USA really that easy a tournament? I mean, if someone who maphacks (and from what I've read, his winrate isn't exactly stellar either) can get 2nd in a tournament like that without maphacking (I'll have to assume you can't in a tournament setting)... Why would you maphack?
On February 09 2013 07:15 Fusilero wrote: With a pretty big result in 2nd at WCS USA and a personal sponsorship I'd really like to hear from daisuki why he'd maphack this is pretty damning stuff.
I feel much the same way.
Besides, was WCS USA really that easy a tournament? I mean, if someone who maphacks (and from what I've read, his winrate isn't exactly stellar either) can get 2nd in a tournament like that without maphacking (I'll have to assume you can't in a tournament setting)... Why would you maphack?
On February 09 2013 07:17 Musicus wrote: The question I ask myself is, what is his motivation for doing this? He is obviously really good, since he only lost to Vibe in WCS USA. So sad that it seems to be true.
On February 09 2013 07:15 Fusilero wrote: With a pretty big result in 2nd at WCS USA and a personal sponsorship I'd really like to hear from daisuki why he'd maphack this is pretty damning stuff.
I feel much the same way.
Besides, was WCS USA really that easy a tournament? I mean, if someone who maphacks (and from what I've read, his winrate isn't exactly stellar either) can get 2nd in a tournament like that without maphacking (I'll have to assume you can't in a tournament setting)... Why would you maphack?
Most likely because he's levelling accounts and he feels he can get his $2 (dunno what nitrix pays him exactly) a win easier through cheating
I don't understand why someone good enough to do so well in a prominent offline tournament, would turn to hacking yet not suddenly win a lot of online tournaments.
Nice researching and nice mind games with having other GM players help you investigate and make them do unorthodox play that totally caught that filthy hacker off guard :D GG WP my man GG WP!
Idk why but I liked NITRIXDaisuki.. just because his name means something really positive. Which is "I LIKE" or .."I love".. and thats awesome. But hacking is not something that would induce people to "Daisuki" so idk.. maybe change the name...
its sad blizz allow this to even demoralize more people from playing the game like me i get to the game after month and i meet two obvious maphackers in middle masters from 4 game played after i watch replays of my loss i realize and shut down game cause was completly disgusting waste time on playing hackers....
I facepalmed upon reading the thread title, but the amount of work you put into providing evidence for the accusation is applause worthy. I wish this set the standard for such accusations.
That fella is done, wether he did or did not cheat it matters not. Considering the amount of effort in the op, i believe that you've caught a real cheater.
Pretty conclusive evidence if you ask me. Deal is sealed if you watch the replays. Everything is so blatant lol. Unfortunate that there are still low-life idiots that do this.
hmm... Real shame. Kid has to have skills to do well at offline events. Hard to fathom why he would bother cheating online... I guess it makes for faster account leveling. =\
As some others already said in this thread, upon seeing the title I was expecting a 'user has been banned for this post' at the bottom of the OP, but seeing Remark's name convinced me to read the whole thread. I was not disappointed.
What sort of moron uses auto-injects? I can sort of understand maphacking for vision gains, it could even improve your gameplay but auto-injects are just lol.
Wow! Talk about thoroughness. Really seems to point to maphacking. Thanks for doing the work Remark. Sad to find another maphacker in the community though and one that placed well at WCS US too =/
Well done, this is definitely the most in depth post with maphacking accusations. Very throrough and with plenty of reputatble names. Now to see what unfolds from this because hacks are just completely unacceptable.
What surprises me more about this is how Daisuki was successful in tournaments that would not ever allow map hacks, yet does it on ladder, which has no real rewards beyond having a high WLR. Maybe he just wants to impress people, but it is a poor excuse to go around cheating like this.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
I take it the reason that the control groups differ between games has to do with the auto inject that hacks supposedly provide? And if he's doing this to allow for faster account leveling, then why does he use accounts with names that are obviously tied to him?
On February 09 2013 07:17 Musicus wrote: The question I ask myself is, what is his motivation for doing this? He is obviously really good, since he only lost to Vibe in WCS USA. So sad that it seems to be true.
On February 09 2013 07:15 Fusilero wrote: With a pretty big result in 2nd at WCS USA and a personal sponsorship I'd really like to hear from daisuki why he'd maphack this is pretty damning stuff.
I feel much the same way.
Besides, was WCS USA really that easy a tournament? I mean, if someone who maphacks (and from what I've read, his winrate isn't exactly stellar either) can get 2nd in a tournament like that without maphacking (I'll have to assume you can't in a tournament setting)... Why would you maphack?
Most likely because he's levelling accounts and he feels he can get his $2 (dunno what nitrix pays him exactly) a win easier through cheating
I initially thought the same thing, but all of these replays are on his accounts (right?). Honestly, there's no good explanation for why a guy that is obviously good (unless WCS USA was really, really shoddily run) would maphack on ladder on accounts that are known to be his.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
Yes, what does it matter if he is shitting down the ladder for other players, as long as he cant play in tournaments?
Blizzard is pathetically slow in dealing with maphackers on their ladder. I aggre that the biggest thing is that he cant play in tournaments but it is still pretty fucking bad to have maphackers on ladder for ages before they are taken care of.
On February 09 2013 07:26 hellokittySC2 wrote: why would someone do this :/ so pointless unless you decide to have your competitive reputation ruined
Especially when you know there's a community (I won't name it, just the initials : TL) with people that can put a tremendous amount of work into something like this !
Good job RemarK ! I truly wish this goes beyond the simple proof of Daisuki's cheat shenanigans, and act as a warning. "Don't cheat, because some guy on TL will inevitably find about it".
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
All those examples are so obvious, it's just painfully obvious so obvious that unbelievable that someone with half of a brain would cheat like that. What I am saying is that, it might not have been him, hotkeys isn't enough. I use exact same combination, to the letter. It's very popular.
On February 09 2013 07:55 Jochan wrote: All those examples are so obvious, it's just painfully obvious so obvious that unbelievable that someone with half of a brain would cheat like that. What I am saying is that, it might not have been him, hotkeys isn't enough. I use exact same combination, to the letter. It's very popular.
Wish remark posted a pic comparing hotkeys on sc2gears, the hotkey usage patterns look pretty identical
Another pro-player with ladder-anxiety, desperate of winning by Maphacking over random people on ladder to keep his self-confidence up?
I find no reason, where a proffessional player would actually HACK, on a training ground. First of all, he is abusing/cheating. Secondly, he doesn't get any training, so this is obviously primarely for entertaining purpose I guess? This makes absolutlely no sense
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
Maybe he didn't care anymore. I remember watching his stream once, or maybe it was a post he made but he said he didn't think he'd ever be good enough to compete with Koreans on a mechanical level. He wasn't exactly an active pro to my knowledge so maybe he was just simply bored? No other explanation as he actually had some LAN results..
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care.
yeah, you can be a confirmed cheater like dragon and still end up okay as long as you apologize, lol.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care.
yeah, you can be a confirmed cheater like dragon and still end up okay as long as you apologize, lol.
or be wacky on stream
Dragon stream cheated and didn't maphack if I recall right.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
I've never forgave any of them. Not that anyone cares about what I think, but I certainly remember and care.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care.
yeah, you can be a confirmed cheater like dragon and still end up okay as long as you apologize, lol.
or be wacky on stream
Dragon stream cheated and didn't maphack if I recall right.
i'm not really sure how stream cheating in a tournament is supposed to be better than maphacking on ladder
and according to wiki he admitted to maphacking anyways
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care.
yeah, you can be a confirmed cheater like dragon and still end up okay as long as you apologize, lol.
or be wacky on stream
Dragon stream cheated and didn't maphack if I recall right.
i'm not really sure how stream cheating in a tournament is supposed to be better than maphacking on ladder
and according to wiki he admitted to maphacking anyways
I don't doubt the conclusion that Daisuki is playing on the eDRINK accounts, however I just wanted to ask a question regarding a difference between the hotkey patterns used by eDRINK and dSuki accounts. Note these 2 eDRINK replays:
What's funny is that I was reviewing some of Daisuki's games about 6 hours ago, suspect he is a hacker in that city vs Daisuki game, and then you make the thread haha.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
are you crazy to put that guys in 1 sentences ???
dimaga as example got 2-3 freewins from another guy in TSL qualifier being angry not to qualifie (the enemy just left the games) yes stupid and he was banned 2 TSL ... for having someone 3 times left his game ... its A BIT different to stupid hackers
Great post OP. Being that SC2 is a career for them, I think accusing a pro of maphacking has to be done delicately and conclusively with little room for error. From the examples you showed, it seems to be rather clear that eDrink is hacking and I have to commend you for your research and care with formulating your evidence.
On February 09 2013 08:07 Doodsmack wrote: Do you really not select queens much with auto-inject?
Isn't the answer to this question self-evident? I mean, no offense but a five year old could tell you that having something done automatically means less actions are required by the human. It's not rocket science.
I have a bad feeling that this thread is based on a wrong assumption , that player names are unique, more over, guess no one didn't had the curiosity to have a look in the replays, in the replays posted here the player name is NITRIXeDRINK , in the replay pack from "I am Nitrix" thread the player name is NITRIXEDRINK. Conclusion: we are talking about a different person, unless there was a name change, even so without the character code (which is not public anyway) we still cannot be sure that we are talking about the same person.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
elky cheated?
elky and smuft made a foreign buyin tournament saying that the winner gets to go to korea and join AMD dream team, dreamteam manager never agreed to it, apparently oversky (a korean pro) played in it and knocked everyoen out
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
are you crazy to put that guys in 1 sentences ???
dimaga as example got 2-3 freewins from another guy in TSL qualifier being angry not to qualifie (the enemy just left the games) yes stupid and he was banned 2 TSL ... for having someone 3 times left his game ... its A BIT different to stupid hackers
one is getting freewins from ladder to look good, one is getting freewins from ladder to place better in a tourney
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care.
yeah, you can be a confirmed cheater like dragon and still end up okay as long as you apologize, lol.
or be wacky on stream
Dragon stream cheated and didn't maphack if I recall right.
i'm not really sure how stream cheating in a tournament is supposed to be better than maphacking on ladder
and according to wiki he admitted to maphacking anyways
Yeh but I didnt even knew that he still existed till recently when I watched his stream for few min. I was : yeh that guy from the first GSL open season lol
On topic - It is so retarded to play at high level and to cheat, like your are spitting on your reputation
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
elky cheated?
Not in the way you're thinking. He and Smuft ran a scam in early 2003 via a paid online tournament (i.e., entry fee) with the grand prize of a flight to Korea and a spot on a pro team. The prize was bogus, so they got a Korean zerg friend to smurf in the tournament and win it, thus allowing them to keep the entry fee money. The zerg got steamrolled by Ret and they made him pull the plug on his internet, then forced a regame since they were the tournament admins.
On topic: nice job with the write-up, it leaves no doubt whatsoever. His response to my 2 stargate voids was high comedy!
One good thing to come from little Privacy for the Pros is that it keeps them honest. There are dedicated people who will find and catch you. Good work on the OP and I hope we can eventually catch and weed out all these players, Pro or Not.
anyways i think it's pretty clear that if you're popular and good enough at the game people will overlook any cheating provided you don't go full savior
Honestly I dont care. its only terrible if he hacks and wins money from tournaments.
He got 2nd at WCS and that shows he has skill, obviously he can't hack there. Ladder is an E-peen place anyway, if he can play legit at LAN then who cares, your ladder points?
But if he did start hacking after WCS it could be of two reasons 1) he didnt play for a while thus had to resort to hacking to keep up his skill level 2) he doesnt care about going pro and just want to have drinking ladder kids tears
because at the end of the day, its just a video game for 98% of us
Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's any way around this. RemarK, thanks. This is a service to the community that is really important and I am sure we all appreciate the time and effort you put into gathering this evidence. I know I do.
I had my pitchforks ready and was about to start chain-throwing them at the topic creator for ruining some guy's reputation without proof.
The first two games are completely circumstantial... up to the point where he sends QUEENS across the map to attack a bunker that he doesn't know exists. Queens. One of the most important Zerg units that could never be used as part of a scouting army for no purpose.
That's just not possible to be a coincidence. Everything else in those first two games could just be mindgaming or a hatred of Terran - maybe he got 2raxxed a lot recently. Caliber's comment on the spine crawler is pointless - there are 1000 reasons he could have chosen that timing. However, that bunker attack... there's nothing I can defend about that and I will freely admit that.
I thank you RemarK for not making this thread after just seeing one or two games and possibly making a false accusation. Others take note - THIS is how you go about it.
Im pretty sure Ive heard this guy been associated with other maphackers, but I think it got "cleared up" because he "only" leveld accounts for maphackers, he didnt hack himself back then.
On February 09 2013 08:07 Doodsmack wrote: Do you really not select queens much with auto-inject?
Isn't the answer to this question self-evident? I mean, no offense but a five year old could tell you that having something done automatically means less actions are required by the human. It's not rocket science.
Well I should reword the question as "Do you really select queens THAT infrequently with auto-inject"? Also I thought SC2gears would pick up "selections" made by the hack software.
On February 09 2013 08:26 SoOJuuu wrote: Honestly I dont care.
He got 2nd at WCS and that shows he has skill, obviously he can't hack there. Ladder is an E-peen place anyway, if he can play legit at LAN then who cares, your ladder points?
But if he did start hacking after WCS it could be of two reasons 1) he didnt play for a while thus had to resort to hacking to keep up his skill level 2) he doesnt care about going pro and just want to have drinking ladder kids tears
because at the end of the day, its just a video game for 98% of us
Some awful jumps in logic and reasoning here.
You are basically saying the integrity of the game is irrelevant because most people play for fun. Well I've got news for you, some people don't, it's literally their job and wasting time on the ladder vs someone who cheats does not help them practise. People who maphack will make decisions no other player would ever make. Against maphackers you can't experiment with builds or use drops or any of that because they see it coming.
And even if 98% of all players play for fun, is playing vs. a maphacker fun? I don't think you will find very many people who would rather play a maphacker than someone who doesn't cheat. We care about the integrity of this game, so don't pretend like you hold some sort of moral high ground because for you "it's just a videogame". Yes it is just a videogame for most people, but some people are very passionate about this game and for some people it is even more than just a passion it is their job.
On February 09 2013 08:38 knOxStarcraft wrote: I guess Nitrix was paying him to have those accounts in top 16 GM or something, can't see any other reason for him to do this.
You are probably right about this, makes sense. Still a pathetic thing to do though.
Right for 2%. If you get hacked on ladder you get hacked. Its just the way things are and will never change because ICCup will never return or if blizz actually start caring. Guy got caught, good, move on. Pitchforks? Why. Did this guy rape you on ladder. Only maybe 500(being nice here with the #) people have played him on ladder since hes high mmr GM. Why do you care? Need some drama in your life to pick up on?
The guy didnt even have a team and I bet the energy drink sponsorship is long gone since we havent seen him since WCS.(even if it was a legit sponsorship, prob someone he knew in the company gave him some free drinks)
the best part it we dont know if this is daisuki. Could be someone under his name.
On February 09 2013 08:18 HomeWorld wrote: I have a bad feeling that this thread is based on a wrong assumption , that player names are unique, more over, guess no one didn't had the curiosity to have a look in the replays, in the replays posted here the player name is NITRIXeDRINK , in the replay pack from "I am Nitrix" thread the player name is NITRIXEDRINK. Conclusion: we are talking about a different person, unless there was a name change, even so without the character code (which is not public anyway) we still cannot be sure that we are talking about the same person.
this is interesting, anyone care to comment on this?
On February 09 2013 08:18 HomeWorld wrote: I have a bad feeling that this thread is based on a wrong assumption , that player names are unique, more over, guess no one didn't had the curiosity to have a look in the replays, in the replays posted here the player name is NITRIXeDRINK , in the replay pack from "I am Nitrix" thread the player name is NITRIXEDRINK. Conclusion: we are talking about a different person, unless there was a name change, even so without the character code (which is not public anyway) we still cannot be sure that we are talking about the same person.
This account has replays from a long time ago on it - additionally, from this replay (http://drop.sc/104760) you can see by checking the chat that the NITRIXeDRINK account in question is a name change from NITRIXENERGY.
People mentioning witch hunts, do you not understand what that means? A witch hunt is when a mob gets riled up with insufficient evidence. This isn't a witch hunt at all.
Witch hunt is the next 'troll', used every day by people who have no idea what it means.
On February 09 2013 08:42 SoOJuuu wrote: Right for 2%. If you get hacked on ladder you get hacked. Its just the way things are and will never change because ICCup will never return or if blizz actually start caring. Guy got caught, good, move on. Pitchforks? Why The guy didnt even have a team and I bet the energy drink sponsorship is long gone since we havent seen him since WCS.(even if it was a legit sponsorship, prob someone he knew in the company gave him some free drinks"
If things just are the way they are and there is nothing we can do about it wouldn't the same be true for real life crimes and accidents??
"Well guy got murdered, nothing we can do about it, let's move on."
"Well guy got hit by a car, nothing we can do about it. Let's move on because things just are the way they are."
On February 09 2013 08:26 SoOJuuu wrote: Honestly I dont care.
He got 2nd at WCS and that shows he has skill, obviously he can't hack there. Ladder is an E-peen place anyway, if he can play legit at LAN then who cares, your ladder points?
But if he did start hacking after WCS it could be of two reasons 1) he didnt play for a while thus had to resort to hacking to keep up his skill level 2) he doesnt care about going pro and just want to have drinking ladder kids tears
because at the end of the day, its just a video game for 98% of us
Some awful jumps in logic and reasoning here.
You are basically saying the integrity of the game is irrelevant because most people play for fun. Well I've got news for you, some people don't, it's literally their job and wasting time on the ladder vs someone who cheats does not help them practise. People who maphack will make decisions no other player would ever make. Against maphackers you can't experiment with builds or use drops or any of that because they see it coming.
And even if 98% of all players play for fun, is playing vs. a maphacker fun? I don't think you will find very many people who would rather play a maphacker than someone who doesn't cheat. We care about the integrity of this game, so don't pretend like you hold some sort of moral high ground because for you "it's just a videogame". Yes it is just a videogame for most people, but some people are very passionate about this game and for some people it is even more than just a passion it is their job.
This is so true, I dont understand people who basically think its okay to crap all over the integrity basically because its "just a" game??
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
elky cheated?
Not in the way you're thinking. He and Smuft ran a scam in early 2003 via a paid online tournament (i.e., entry fee) with the grand prize of a flight to Korea and a spot on a pro team. The prize was bogus, so they got a Korean zerg friend to smurf in the tournament and win it, thus allowing them to keep the entry fee money. The zerg got steamrolled by Ret and they made him pull the plug on his internet, then forced a regame since they were the tournament admins.
On topic: nice job with the write-up, it leaves no doubt whatsoever. His response to my 2 stargate voids was high comedy!
Woah I never knew about that. Wasn't around back then and have heard nothing but good things about elky. Did the community really let that slide?
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
elky cheated?
Not in the way you're thinking. He and Smuft ran a scam in early 2003 via a paid online tournament (i.e., entry fee) with the grand prize of a flight to Korea and a spot on a pro team. The prize was bogus, so they got a Korean zerg friend to smurf in the tournament and win it, thus allowing them to keep the entry fee money. The zerg got steamrolled by Ret and they made him pull the plug on his internet, then forced a regame since they were the tournament admins.
On topic: nice job with the write-up, it leaves no doubt whatsoever. His response to my 2 stargate voids was high comedy!
Woah I never knew about that. Wasn't around back then and have heard nothing but good things about elky. Did the community really let that slide?
Ofcourse the community of hypocrites. We have TT1, dimaga, F91 but when someones caught we go Ham on the guy, and forgive him in a year or two if he does well again
On February 09 2013 08:18 HomeWorld wrote: I have a bad feeling that this thread is based on a wrong assumption , that player names are unique, more over, guess no one didn't had the curiosity to have a look in the replays, in the replays posted here the player name is NITRIXeDRINK , in the replay pack from "I am Nitrix" thread the player name is NITRIXEDRINK. Conclusion: we are talking about a different person, unless there was a name change, even so without the character code (which is not public anyway) we still cannot be sure that we are talking about the same person.
This account has replays from a long time ago on it - additionally, from this replay (http://drop.sc/104760) you can see by checking the chat that the NITRIXeDRINK account in question is a name change from NITRIXENERGY.
He referred to NITRIXEDRINK not NITRIXENERGY
One other thing I would mention is that Daisuki has said in the past he shares all the NITRIX accounts (there are a lot I think).
I would also be curious whether the hotkey differences seen here can be fully explained by auto-inject and maphack use:
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
Kick him, ban him, make sure he never gets to play a tournament. Nothing else left to add except: Thank you for putting in this amount of effort, amazing work!
Hmm, the only problem I have with this is that he placed 2nd in wcs. If he really is a maphacker then I find it hard to believe that he could do so well at a tournament where it would have been impossible to use maphacks. I'd love to hear what dSuki has to say. I'm not buying into this 100% without his side of the story.
Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
Thank you for your service to the integrity of this sport.
One minor quibble: It's a "peek" through the fog of war, not a "peak." I normally wouldn't bother mentioning it, but it actually really confused me for a while before I figured out what you were saying.
On February 09 2013 08:59 cvgHuShang wrote: Hmm, the only problem I have with this is that he placed 2nd in wcs. If he really is a maphacker then I find it hard to believe that he could do so well at a tournament where it would have been impossible to use maphacks. I'd love to hear what dSuki has to say. I'm not buying into this 100% without his side of the story.
How to say this without sounding sour... hmm. I lost 1-2 to daisuki in WCS America. The series went like so: 6 pool, weird roach hydra queen allin, and then I tried allining and died to counter roaches. I guess what I am trying to say is that his builds seemed really strange and odd to me, so maybe he caught a lot of other people off guard too? Unorthodox is a good word I suppose.
There is no doubt in my mind he is a very skilled player though and from what I hear from friends/teammates hes a cool too...
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
elky cheated?
Not in the way you're thinking. He and Smuft ran a scam in early 2003 via a paid online tournament (i.e., entry fee) with the grand prize of a flight to Korea and a spot on a pro team. The prize was bogus, so they got a Korean zerg friend to smurf in the tournament and win it, thus allowing them to keep the entry fee money. The zerg got steamrolled by Ret and they made him pull the plug on his internet, then forced a regame since they were the tournament admins.
On topic: nice job with the write-up, it leaves no doubt whatsoever. His response to my 2 stargate voids was high comedy!
I certainly didn't forget about that. There are many and I do mean many players who hopefully regret their mishaps from before. -_-
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
elky cheated?
Not in the way you're thinking. He and Smuft ran a scam in early 2003 via a paid online tournament (i.e., entry fee) with the grand prize of a flight to Korea and a spot on a pro team. The prize was bogus, so they got a Korean zerg friend to smurf in the tournament and win it, thus allowing them to keep the entry fee money. The zerg got steamrolled by Ret and they made him pull the plug on his internet, then forced a regame since they were the tournament admins.
On topic: nice job with the write-up, it leaves no doubt whatsoever. His response to my 2 stargate voids was high comedy!
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
totally offtopic, but what? does anyone know what this might be about? I tried to lurk for it but I couldnt find anything :<
On February 09 2013 09:03 infinitum wrote: Thank you for your service to the integrity of this sport.
One minor quibble: It's a "peek" through the fog of war, not a "peak." I normally wouldn't bother mentioning it, but it actually really confused me for a while before I figured out what you were saying.
Haha, yeah I should fix that. I thought I proof-read for typos and spelling errors but clearly not well enough, thanks.
Also, as a general statement, a lot of people seem confused by this thread - I don't think Daisuki started hacking until recently, and there's no evidence that his WCS qualifier or online tournament results are not legit.
This is conjecture on my part, but presumably Daisuki is hacking just to make leveling the accounts to top 16 GM faster / easier (if you are using maphacks, it takes very little effort or mechanics to do so). There's a big difference between putting in the time to be a legitimate top 16 GM player and using hacks to efficiently rank up accounts, and Daisuki seemed to disappear after WCS NA ended, not reappearing until recently. But as I said, this part is just conjecture.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
totally offtopic, but what? does anyone know what this might be about? I tried to lurk for it but I couldnt find anything :<
that was idra not artosis. he had assem play on his account in a clanwar cus he was 2 noobz
On February 09 2013 09:17 FeverSC wrote: Welp, this looks incriminating as fuck and I have no idea how he'd argue himself out of it. Bye daisuki! Good riddance
he was never apart of the community to begin with, thats why this doesnt suprise me at all
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
totally offtopic, but what? does anyone know what this might be about? I tried to lurk for it but I couldnt find anything :<
I don't know why you guys are looking for so much dirt and I could name many more but you know what? No. Just no. We've been down those roads several times and if you really want just use the search engine. -.-
On February 09 2013 09:17 FeverSC wrote: Welp, this looks incriminating as fuck and I have no idea how he'd argue himself out of it. Bye daisuki! Good riddance
he was never apart of the community to begin with, thats why this doesnt suprise me at all
Oh come on Payam. Even guys part of this community are known to derp as well, so that's very tongue in cheek coming from you. lol *Sigh*
I look forward to his response. It seems like he only started hacking recently - or at least I hope - from my time spent on the same team as him he did not map hack.
But then again, this proves that he is using multiple hacks (auto-inject + map vision). I honestly hope that an example is made: Nitrix should drop their sponsorship, and Daisuki's SC2 career should be over. I do not want another Terran-who-shall-not-be-named to happen again.
On February 09 2013 09:23 Glon wrote: I look forward to his response. It seems like he only started hacking recently - or at least I hope - from my time spent on the same team as him he did not map hack.
But then again, this proves that he is using multiple hacks (auto-inject + map vision). I honestly hope that an example is made: Nitrix should drop their sponsorship, and Daisuki's SC2 career should be over. I do not want another Terran-who-shall-not-be-named to happen again.
Exactly how many guys have we made examples over the last fifteen years alone? A lot of them just keep coming back for more. Hacking back then was just as dreaded yet now more money is involved.
To be honest, it's gotten to the point where I've played so many players on ladder who map hack that I don't even bother trying to do anything about it anymore... There are just so many maphackers out there atm ~_~
Daisuki is a good player though, I don't see why he feels the need to do this... how is it making you better? It isn't. How is it making you money? It isn't.
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
totally offtopic, but what? does anyone know what this might be about? I tried to lurk for it but I couldnt find anything :<
I don't know why you guys are looking for so much dirt and I could name many more but you know what? No. Just no. We've been down those roads several times and if you really want just use the search engine. -.-
On February 09 2013 09:17 FeverSC wrote: Welp, this looks incriminating as fuck and I have no idea how he'd argue himself out of it. Bye daisuki! Good riddance
he was never apart of the community to begin with, thats why this doesnt suprise me at all
Oh come on Payam. Even guys part of this community are known to derp as well, so that's very tongue in cheek coming from you. lol *Sigh*
i started maphacking before i knew tl existed, once i joined it i was already too far into the dark side to get out. the only reason i stopped maphacking was because i wanted the communitys approval : D
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
Did you even read the OP? The hotkeys are the same....
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
Did you even read the OP? The hotkeys are the same....
On February 09 2013 07:10 KawaiiRice wrote: quick, contact his sponsors ! '~'
Or not. What if they were working together ? Only way for these sponsors to win some fame if they didn't get caught. But now they can only deny. Either way it sucks.
kinda figured when he first came onto the scene with his NITRIX accounts and getting top 16 GM out of nowhere... That shit just doesn't happen as we've learned in the past (Spades)
On February 09 2013 07:10 KawaiiRice wrote: quick, contact his sponsors ! '~'
Or not. What if they were working together ? Only way for these sponsors to win some fame if they didn't get caught. But now they can only deny. Either way it sucks.
That's interesting actually. If sponsors are pressuring Daisuki to hack, then I'm actually OK with Daisuki being assimilated back into the community. Players DEPEND on their paychecks from sponsors - and if the sponsors don't pay the player, the player can't do anything (what are they going to do? Sue (hint: they can't/won't)).
But for that to happen, we'll need a shit load of evidence from him, including screenshots of sponsors explicit telling him this....
And again, if he did it on his own accord, then it's been fun.
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
What seems more likely. That it's actually daisuki hacking on both accounts OR that two of his friends, who both happen to play zerg, who are both using the same hotkeys as daisuki and are ranked 15th and 16th in GM respectively are playing under HIS ID with maphacks. This is so far-fetched I don't even know what to say.
Is there a hotkey analysis thing with SC2Gears? Hotkeys can be the same as other people, but the personal order of setting them up and such is a particular unique thing you can look for. In Brood War, it was how you could figure out who anonymous progamers were from analyzing the replay with a third party program. I taught the same hotkeys I use to my newbie friends, so I think a proper hotkey analysis is needed.
Edit: It appears the OP says the APM and spam cycles match the hotkeys, this is kind of vague to me, to they match all around or is it just the hotkeys that match?
I can confirm that this Cloaken account is the real deal, he once posted in the GM maphacker thread and shortly afterwards, about 7 or 8 previously confirmed hackers were banned...
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
totally offtopic, but what? does anyone know what this might be about? I tried to lurk for it but I couldnt find anything :<
I don't know why you guys are looking for so much dirt and I could name many more but you know what? No. Just no. We've been down those roads several times and if you really want just use the search engine. -.-
On February 09 2013 09:18 ROOTT1 wrote:
On February 09 2013 09:17 FeverSC wrote: Welp, this looks incriminating as fuck and I have no idea how he'd argue himself out of it. Bye daisuki! Good riddance
he was never apart of the community to begin with, thats why this doesnt suprise me at all
Oh come on Payam. Even guys part of this community are known to derp as well, so that's very tongue in cheek coming from you. lol *Sigh*
i started maphacking before i knew tl existed, once i joined it i was already too far into the dark side to get out. the only reason i stopped maphacking was because i wanted the communitys approval : D
Hackers gon' hack. Lol, how do u even have the guts to write in this thread.
On February 09 2013 09:44 RezJ wrote: I can confirm that this Cloaken account is the real deal, he once posted in the GM maphacker thread and shortly afterwards, about 7 or 8 previously confirmed hackers were banned...
On February 09 2013 09:43 Arco wrote: Is there a hotkey analysis thing with SC2Gears? Hotkeys can be the same as other people, but the personal order of setting them up and such is a particular unique thing you can look for. In Brood War, it was how you could figure out who anonymous progamers were from analyzing the replay with a third party program. I taught the same hotkeys I use to my newbie friends, so I think a proper hotkey analysis is needed.
Edit: It appears the OP says the APM and spam cycles match the hotkeys, this is kind of vague to me, to they match all around or is it just the hotkeys that match?
Why isn't the fact that they are all his accounts conclusive enough? It's him, they are evidently his accounts.
On February 09 2013 09:25 Torte de Lini wrote: Who's TT1? Wasn't he a hacker too or something? RemarK, did you confirm these hacking techniques from him? He knows them all!
In the interest of making the argument airtight I was wondering if someone could answer the questions I've been asking.
First, Daisuki has said in the past he shares all the NITRIX accounts. And there are a lot of NITRIX accounts. Also, it's plausible that two zergs would use the exact same hotkeys.
IMO a hotkey graph is more solid evidence than simply two players using the same hotkeys. I would be curious whether the hotkey differences seen here can be fully explained by auto-inject and maphack use:
Refer to the hotkeys he uses:
1 – Zerglings 2 – Corruptors / Broodlords 3 – Infestors 4 – All hatcheries 5 – Queen 6 – Queen 7 - Queen 9 – All queens (this hotkey is only used on the maphacking accounts NITRIXeDRINK) 0 – Misc utility hotkey
eDRINK replays:
dSuki replays:
Not necessarily saying it isn't him, just wanted the argument to be airtight.
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
What seems more likely. That it's actually daisuki hacking on both accounts OR that two of his friends, who both happen to play zerg, who are both using the same hotkeys as daisuki and are ranked 15th and 16th in GM respectively are playing under HIS ID with maphacks. This is so far-fetched I don't even know what to say.
You forgot to add that he likes to play on 2 accounts at the same time in 2v2/3v3 Dunno what to say, but this all "Daisuki" thing looks like a big mess from my pov.
PS: I'm not trying to defend Daisuki even if it looks like it.
On February 09 2013 09:48 Doodsmack wrote: In the interest of making the argument airtight I was wondering if someone could answer the questions I've been asking.
First, Daisuki has said in the past he shares all the NITRIX accounts. And there are a lot of NITRIX accounts. Also, it's plausible that two zergs would use the exact same hotkeys.
I would also be curious whether the hotkey differences seen here can be fully explained by auto-inject and maphack use:
Refer to the hotkeys he uses:
1 – Zerglings 2 – Corruptors / Broodlords 3 – Infestors 4 – All hatcheries 5 – Queen 6 – Queen 7 - Queen 9 – All queens (this hotkey is only used on the maphacking accounts NITRIXeDRINK) 0 – Misc utility hotkey
eDRINK replays:
dSuki replays:
Not necessarily saying it isn't him, just wanted the argument to be airtight.
I already told you that auto-inject explains the lack of queen usage. And maphackers are less likely to spread creep as it doesn't give them extra vision so it's at the very bottom of their list of priorities. Just watch the replays. No maphack = more creep spread.
On February 09 2013 09:27 HomeWorld wrote:
You forgot to add that he likes to play on 2 accounts at the same time in 2v2/3v3 Dunno what to say, but this all "Daisuki" thing looks like a big mess from my pov.
PS: I'm not trying to defend Daisuki even if it looks like it.
That's meaningless. If I was a maphacker and were to lend my account to a friend for some teamgames that wouldn't make me any less of a maphacker.
Daisuki streams a good amount beating good players without hacks, so I'm not completely sold yet. I'll be waiting to see how he responds to all of this...
On February 09 2013 09:57 Nortac wrote: Daisuki streams a good amount beating good players without hacks, so I'm not completely sold yet.
Well ALOT of offline tournament winners got caught hacking in BW and WC3 so that does not prove anything. I have seen some debates here in the past that they do it for some kind of training purpose but thats another argument. Also streaming apparantly does not mean no hacks as you possibly could have them running on a 2nd monitor or whatever.
I just casted a game of his against tossboy on daybreak and didnt see anything super convincing but honestly was not paying attention as i figured someone this high level probably wasnt.
Edit: Okay so after watching this replay without even being able to check his vision he is reacting very weird. Pulls his queen early with zerglings on ramp to fend off zealot pressure that he couldnt have seen till it got to his base. Also pretty much never sends out an ovy all game besides one to his natural.
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
What seems more likely. That it's actually daisuki hacking on both accounts OR that two of his friends, who both happen to play zerg, who are both using the same hotkeys as daisuki and are ranked 15th and 16th in GM respectively are playing under HIS ID with maphacks. This is so far-fetched I don't even know what to say.
Those three accounts could be all from Daisuki and he's just lending them to his friends to play some 3v3s. I know we do that sometimes in my circle of friends.
nice work i have played him this week i'll go through replay . what a son of a bi...
EDIT: yeah i his play is so suspucious. First i am terran and i am notarious for 2 raxing zerg he doesnt scout me with drone. (even tough it was 2 player map and i have already beat this guy with 2 rax a few time) 2nd only send 1 over to scout all game ( frist one on cloud kingdom ) i do 3 cc build he doesnt scout deceide to all in but morph all his baneling on the 4th base ( i am botom so the one to the right) and send his ling bane where my army is defending my 3rd that he never scouted but thats where he it with all in, doesnt take tower as well... lol ...
Hey, I'm a previously banned user and I can confirm that this guy is a maphacker.
I'm just going to quickly note (before i get banned again) that I have played against this guy many times, even back in the days of Metalopolis. He is a maphacker and has been a maphacker for a long time, I just had no idea it was Daisuki all along.
He always does some funky cheesy play, like 15hatching to the gold in ZvZ and doing silly all-ins. It appears that he only plays for wins so he can advertise NITRIX energy drink more. It is indeed plausible that he hacks just so he can get a higher ranking. Good job on finding and exposing this hacker. Anyway, mods ban me now.
EDIT: If anyone wants replays, feel free to PM me your e-mail or something so I can reply since I will most likely be banned by the time you are reading this. The replays are months and months old so I would have to do a lot of digging if people really want more proof. Thx!
On February 09 2013 10:36 awudhfnswwef wrote: Hey, I'm a previously banned user and I can confirm that this guy is a maphacker.
I'm just going to quickly note (before i get banned again) that I have played against this guy many times, even back in the days of Metalopolis. He is a maphacker and has been a maphacker for a long time, I just had no idea it was Daisuki all along.
He always does some funky cheesy play, like 15hatching to the gold in ZvZ and doing silly all-ins. It appears that he only plays for wins so he can advertise NITRIX energy drink more. It is indeed plausible that he hacks just so he can get a higher ranking. Good job on finding and exposing this hacker. Anyway, mods ban me now.
EDIT: If anyone wants replays, feel free to PM me your e-mail or something so I can reply since I will most likely be banned by the time you are reading this. The replays are months and months old so I would have to do a lot of digging if people really want more proof. Thx!
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
totally offtopic, but what? does anyone know what this might be about? I tried to lurk for it but I couldnt find anything :<
I don't know why you guys are looking for so much dirt and I could name many more but you know what? No. Just no. We've been down those roads several times and if you really want just use the search engine. -.-
On February 09 2013 09:18 ROOTT1 wrote:
On February 09 2013 09:17 FeverSC wrote: Welp, this looks incriminating as fuck and I have no idea how he'd argue himself out of it. Bye daisuki! Good riddance
he was never apart of the community to begin with, thats why this doesnt suprise me at all
Oh come on Payam. Even guys part of this community are known to derp as well, so that's very tongue in cheek coming from you. lol *Sigh*
i started maphacking before i knew tl existed, once i joined it i was already too far into the dark side to get out. the only reason i stopped maphacking was because i wanted the communitys approval : D
What the fuck kind of outlook is that. So you admit to seeing nothing wrong with what you were doing and just stopped so that people would stop disliking you? Ridiculous why anyone wastes time with you is beyond me
On February 09 2013 07:00 Nethermind wrote: That's a ton of work you've put into that RemarK. Shame about the context, but great work none-the-less.
Wanted to agree with this - it's fantastic the amount of evidence and communication you have involved into your investigation and the presentation is engaging and precise. Good job.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
totally offtopic, but what? does anyone know what this might be about? I tried to lurk for it but I couldnt find anything :<
I don't know why you guys are looking for so much dirt and I could name many more but you know what? No. Just no. We've been down those roads several times and if you really want just use the search engine. -.-
On February 09 2013 09:18 ROOTT1 wrote:
On February 09 2013 09:17 FeverSC wrote: Welp, this looks incriminating as fuck and I have no idea how he'd argue himself out of it. Bye daisuki! Good riddance
he was never apart of the community to begin with, thats why this doesnt suprise me at all
Oh come on Payam. Even guys part of this community are known to derp as well, so that's very tongue in cheek coming from you. lol *Sigh*
i started maphacking before i knew tl existed, once i joined it i was already too far into the dark side to get out. the only reason i stopped maphacking was because i wanted the communitys approval : D
What the fuck kind of outlook is that. So you admit to seeing nothing wrong with what you were doing and just stopped so that people would stop disliking you? Ridiculous why anyone wastes time with you is beyond me
Friends are friends i guess. Even if they are giant d-bags
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
What seems more likely. That it's actually daisuki hacking on both accounts OR that two of his friends, who both happen to play zerg, who are both using the same hotkeys as daisuki and are ranked 15th and 16th in GM respectively are playing under HIS ID with maphacks. This is so far-fetched I don't even know what to say.
Those three accounts could be all from Daisuki and he's just lending them to his friends to play some 3v3s. I know we do that sometimes in my circle of friends.
Which is just a lame attempt at making any maphacking claim unfalsifiable. If people can just use the old shit trick of saying "Yeah it's my account, but it was someone else playing" then nobody can ever be proven guilty of maphacking. It's nothing but a shit trick. It's your account, your responsibility. I don't see any qualitative difference between maphacking on your account or allowing someone else to maphack on your account.
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
What seems more likely. That it's actually daisuki hacking on both accounts OR that two of his friends, who both happen to play zerg, who are both using the same hotkeys as daisuki and are ranked 15th and 16th in GM respectively are playing under HIS ID with maphacks. This is so far-fetched I don't even know what to say.
Those three accounts could be all from Daisuki and he's just lending them to his friends to play some 3v3s. I know we do that sometimes in my circle of friends.
Which is just a lame attempt at making any maphacking claim unfalsifiable. If people can just use the old shit trick of saying "Yeah it's my account, but it was someone else playing" then nobody can ever be proven guilty of maphacking. It's nothing but a shit trick. It's your account, your responsibility. I don't see any qualitative difference between maphacking on your account or allowing someone else to maphack on your account.
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
What seems more likely. That it's actually daisuki hacking on both accounts OR that two of his friends, who both happen to play zerg, who are both using the same hotkeys as daisuki and are ranked 15th and 16th in GM respectively are playing under HIS ID with maphacks. This is so far-fetched I don't even know what to say.
Those three accounts could be all from Daisuki and he's just lending them to his friends to play some 3v3s. I know we do that sometimes in my circle of friends.
Which is just a lame attempt at making any maphacking claim unfalsifiable. If people can just use the old shit trick of saying "Yeah it's my account, but it was someone else playing" then nobody can ever be proven guilty of maphacking. It's nothing but a shit trick. It's your account, your responsibility. I don't see any qualitative difference between maphacking on your account or allowing someone else to maphack on your account.
Technically this is a different situation because 1) the account has a similar name to a large group of accounts that are all shared, and 2) the account isn't in the name of Daisuki, therefore it isn't presumed to be him; that has to be proven.
Nonetheless, the fact that it's the same hotkeys makes it high odds it's Daisuke. But keep in mind, since we know it's a shared account, the hotkeys are the only thing we have to show it's him.
On February 09 2013 09:01 RemarK wrote: Here is another short video I made showing that both NITRIXeDRINK accounts are name changes from accounts used in the replay pack that Daisuki posted on TeamLiquid.net
I believe this should address all of the questions some people have brought up about accounts. (I'll add this to the OP as well)
Go have a look at one of NITRIXeDRINK profile 3v3 teams, you will find NITRIXdSuky in the same team or NITRIXeDRINK teaming with NITRIXeDRINK
I'm more inclined into believing that these "NITRIXeDRINK" accounts are used by a friend(s) of daisuki. Why? For a guy who ranked 2nd at USA Nationals, it's very hard to believe that he's "map hacking"
What seems more likely. That it's actually daisuki hacking on both accounts OR that two of his friends, who both happen to play zerg, who are both using the same hotkeys as daisuki and are ranked 15th and 16th in GM respectively are playing under HIS ID with maphacks. This is so far-fetched I don't even know what to say.
Those three accounts could be all from Daisuki and he's just lending them to his friends to play some 3v3s. I know we do that sometimes in my circle of friends.
Which is just a lame attempt at making any maphacking claim unfalsifiable. If people can just use the old shit trick of saying "Yeah it's my account, but it was someone else playing" then nobody can ever be proven guilty of maphacking. It's nothing but a shit trick. It's your account, your responsibility. I don't see any qualitative difference between maphacking on your account or allowing someone else to maphack on your account.
Technically this is a different situation because 1) the account has a similar name to a large group of accounts that are all shared, and 2) the account isn't in the name of Daisuki, therefore it isn't presumed to be him; that has to be proven.
Nonetheless, the fact that it's the same hotkeys makes it high odds it's Daisuke. But keep in mind, since we know it's a shared account, the hotkeys are the only thing we have to show it's him.
No, please get your facts straight. Both hacking accounts are Daisuki's accounts. He used both accounts in his replay pack.
On February 09 2013 07:45 Hypemeup wrote: Great work, this proves that he is a maphacker without the shadow of a doubt!
In just 4 timely months blizzard will have banned this account!
Whether Blizzard bans him or not is irrelevant - he'll never be able to participate in a Starcraft II tournament again following accusations (well-founded, admittedly) like these.
not really, if he proves himself on lan again and apologizes etc in a few months no one will care about his cheating, for example, haypro, kawaiirice, tt1, elky + smuft +dreamteam, dimaga, f91, etc
artosis as well (I recall Rekrul blogging about an incident where artosis played instead of someone else)
totally offtopic, but what? does anyone know what this might be about? I tried to lurk for it but I couldnt find anything :<
I don't know why you guys are looking for so much dirt and I could name many more but you know what? No. Just no. We've been down those roads several times and if you really want just use the search engine. -.-
On February 09 2013 09:18 ROOTT1 wrote:
On February 09 2013 09:17 FeverSC wrote: Welp, this looks incriminating as fuck and I have no idea how he'd argue himself out of it. Bye daisuki! Good riddance
he was never apart of the community to begin with, thats why this doesnt suprise me at all
Oh come on Payam. Even guys part of this community are known to derp as well, so that's very tongue in cheek coming from you. lol *Sigh*
i started maphacking before i knew tl existed, once i joined it i was already too far into the dark side to get out. the only reason i stopped maphacking was because i wanted the communitys approval : D
You forgot to mention the part where you got caught and banned
just like curious i mean if hes maphacking on ladder is that really thread worthy? ok i know its cheating but theres a maphacking thread already right? if its just ladder games really who cares? but if its tournament then i can see this being important but if its just ladder? anyways not condoning maphackers or anything just wondering y people really care about ladder so much.
On February 09 2013 11:16 psychotics wrote: just like curious i mean if hes maphacking on ladder is that really thread worthy? ok i know its cheating but theres a maphacking thread already right? if its just ladder games really who cares? but if its tournament then i can see this being important but if its just ladder? anyways not condoning maphackers or anything just wondering y people really care about ladder so much.
Why should we not defend the ladder? Why allow such a potentially great piece of the community go to waste? We lose nothing by trying to preserve as much ladder sanctity as we can. Especially in GM.
On February 09 2013 11:16 psychotics wrote: just like curious i mean if hes maphacking on ladder is that really thread worthy? ok i know its cheating but theres a maphacking thread already right? if its just ladder games really who cares? but if its tournament then i can see this being important but if its just ladder? anyways not condoning maphackers or anything just wondering y people really care about ladder so much.
Why should we not defend the ladder? Why allow such a potentially great piece of the community go to waste? We lose nothing by trying to preserve as much ladder sanctity as we can. Especially in GM.
your missing my point. there is already a thread for map hackers on ladder im wondering why a guy hacking on ladder is thread worthy if its just ladder. its not like hes an important player in anything sure he came in 2nd at wcs-usa but i mean hes pretty much just a random GM player with 1 good result?
On February 09 2013 11:16 psychotics wrote: just like curious i mean if hes maphacking on ladder is that really thread worthy? ok i know its cheating but theres a maphacking thread already right? if its just ladder games really who cares? but if its tournament then i can see this being important but if its just ladder? anyways not condoning maphackers or anything just wondering y people really care about ladder so much.
Why should we not defend the ladder? Why allow such a potentially great piece of the community go to waste? We lose nothing by trying to preserve as much ladder sanctity as we can. Especially in GM.
your missing my point. there is already a thread for map hackers on ladder im wondering why a guy hacking on ladder is thread worthy if its just ladder. its not like hes an important player in anything sure he came in 2nd at wcs-usa but i mean hes pretty much just a random GM player with 1 good result?
Clearly the mods seem to think this thread is okay, so your desire to be content police isn't needed
On February 09 2013 11:16 psychotics wrote: just like curious i mean if hes maphacking on ladder is that really thread worthy? ok i know its cheating but theres a maphacking thread already right? if its just ladder games really who cares? but if its tournament then i can see this being important but if its just ladder? anyways not condoning maphackers or anything just wondering y people really care about ladder so much.
Why should we not defend the ladder? Why allow such a potentially great piece of the community go to waste? We lose nothing by trying to preserve as much ladder sanctity as we can. Especially in GM.
your missing my point. there is already a thread for map hackers on ladder im wondering why a guy hacking on ladder is thread worthy if its just ladder. its not like hes an important player in anything sure he came in 2nd at wcs-usa but i mean hes pretty much just a random GM player with 1 good result?
Are you by chance under the impression that koreans are the only people that are good at this game and everyone in america sucks simply because they don't have results? That might explain your misconception of skill between players, and why this deserves a thread.
On February 09 2013 11:16 psychotics wrote: just like curious i mean if hes maphacking on ladder is that really thread worthy? ok i know its cheating but theres a maphacking thread already right? if its just ladder games really who cares? but if its tournament then i can see this being important but if its just ladder? anyways not condoning maphackers or anything just wondering y people really care about ladder so much.
Why not? I can see the point of every "average" ladder hacker not being thread worthy, hence that thread, but this one is a bit more known with results high NA-ladder and LAN, and an accusation against him is a bit more serious as well(though the evidence seems pretty bad but )
On February 09 2013 11:16 psychotics wrote: just like curious i mean if hes maphacking on ladder is that really thread worthy? ok i know its cheating but theres a maphacking thread already right? if its just ladder games really who cares? but if its tournament then i can see this being important but if its just ladder? anyways not condoning maphackers or anything just wondering y people really care about ladder so much.
Why not? I can see the point of every "average" ladder hacker not being thread worthy, hence that thread, but this one is a bit more known with results high NA-ladder and LAN, and an accusation against him is a bit more serious as well(though the evidence seems pretty bad but )
well its just that my point is this guy seems to me as just another average ladder hacker. hes no me important to the deezer really just ladder trash
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
except when blizzard invites top ladder players to WCS qualifiers and events.
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
Except nearly every pro player except maybe a handful of Koreans use ladder as their main form of practice; stop trying to sound elitist and condescending for the sake of it.
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
except when blizzard invites top ladder players to WCS qualifiers and events.
blizzard didnt invite them they had to win quailfiers which were open to anyone in any league. sooo as long as the hacking was only on ladder not in tournaments not really any different then the thousands of other masters or higher hackers
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
Except nearly every pro player except maybe a handful of Koreans use ladder as their main form of practice; stop trying to sound elitist and condescending for the sake of it.
they do? Most of them use it for stream revenue. Real practice happens within the team.
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
except when blizzard invites top ladder players to WCS qualifiers and events.
blizzard didnt invite them they had to win quailfiers which were open to anyone in any league. sooo as long as the hacking was only on ladder not in tournaments not really any different then the thousands of other masters or higher hackers
blizzard did do invites though. and with daisuki's second place at WCS USA, if he kept a high ladder ranking as well, he'd have a good chance at landing an invite this year.
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
except when blizzard invites top ladder players to WCS qualifiers and events.
blizzard didnt invite them they had to win quailfiers which were open to anyone in any league. sooo as long as the hacking was only on ladder not in tournaments not really any different then the thousands of other masters or higher hackers
There has been at least one tournament which was organized by Blizzard, where they invited people based on ladder ranking. This is how they learned about "HGRZack" or whatever his name was, they later on canceled his invite and banned him.
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
Except nearly every pro player except maybe a handful of Koreans use ladder as their main form of practice; stop trying to sound elitist and condescending for the sake of it.
they do? Most of them use it for stream revenue. Real practice happens within the team.
This aint broodwar. Most people just grind the ladder (including the koreans).
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
Except nearly every pro player except maybe a handful of Koreans use ladder as their main form of practice; stop trying to sound elitist and condescending for the sake of it.
they do? Most of them use it for stream revenue. Real practice happens within the team.
Practice for one specific matchup/strategy then teammates/practice partners are helpful, sure. Otherwise, they still primarily use ladder to practice their mechanics and such. You'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone who has more custom games played than ladder games.
Most pros also don't show their strategies while streaming. Ladder for practice, yes. Stream your "actual" practice for all your rivals to see, no.
Btw, my name is Daisuke, not daisuki. I'm not the same person. If you don't know who I am, then I'm sorry but you're gonna have to be told again when you hear about me -_-
On February 09 2013 11:52 dicedicerevolution wrote: Most pros also don't show their strategies while streaming. Ladder for practice, yes. Stream your "actual" practice for all your rivals to see, no.
Btw, my name is Daisuke, not daisuki. I'm not the same person. If you don't know who I am, then I'm sorry but you're gonna have to be told again when you hear about me -_-
The first game other than the scouting could have been explained away as just a build against sentry immortal which double upgraded lings is good vs that. The scouting is what proves it you have to know about the gas counts and the tech choices.
On February 09 2013 11:54 Cloaken wrote: Thanks again to the OP for this information. We were able to take some solid action based off of these details.
Please always remember you can report hacks directly to hacks@blizzard.com.
Good luck out there, and always remember to "Play Nice, Play Fair."
Yay, thanks!
Is Chucknorris still on the loose? Haven't checked the HOTS ladder in a while
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
Except nearly every pro player except maybe a handful of Koreans use ladder as their main form of practice; stop trying to sound elitist and condescending for the sake of it.
they do? Most of them use it for stream revenue. Real practice happens within the team.
you're incorrect, many pro-gamers will explicitly say they practiced mainly through ladder
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
What?
It does and you're wrong. Hackers should be banned as soon as they are caught. They waste everyone's time for no reason. They are filth.
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
Except nearly every pro player except maybe a handful of Koreans use ladder as their main form of practice; stop trying to sound elitist and condescending for the sake of it.
they do? Most of them use it for stream revenue. Real practice happens within the team.
Actually its the total opposite. Even in team houses the players will practice 1v1 with ladder 90% of the time.
On February 09 2013 11:54 Cloaken wrote: Thanks again to the OP for this information. We were able to take some solid action based off of these details.
Please always remember you can report hacks directly to hacks@blizzard.com.
Good luck out there, and always remember to "Play Nice, Play Fair."
Nice to see some action taken as a result of this. Being proactive is the only way to keep the cheating in check.
On February 09 2013 12:25 Pokebunny wrote: "NITRIXdaisuki @NITRIXdaisuki I'm getting more publicity from a hacking thread than from when I won 2nd at a major tournament. I don't understand!!!"
WCS USA was like the least televised tournament I have ever seen lol. I think Playhem dailies get more coverage than that did.
Honestly I have no problem with this. He is using other accounts to hack on if the allegations are true, not on his own account or accounts he is boosting. Where is the harm? He hasn't used it in a tournament (he gets 2nd in them online no hacks) so what is the witch hunt for?
I hope Blizz only resets the hacking accounts for which there is proof and does not pursue Daisuke in a more aggressive personal way (banning all his accounts without proof etc). Furthermore I would hope that no tournament takes this as evidence that he is a cheater as it certainly is not.
On February 09 2013 11:54 Cloaken wrote: Thanks again to the OP for this information. We were able to take some solid action based off of these details.
Please always remember you can report hacks directly to hacks@blizzard.com.
Good luck out there, and always remember to "Play Nice, Play Fair."
On February 09 2013 11:54 Cloaken wrote: Thanks again to the OP for this information. We were able to take some solid action based off of these details.
Please always remember you can report hacks directly to hacks@blizzard.com.
Good luck out there, and always remember to "Play Nice, Play Fair."
On February 09 2013 12:30 algorithm0r wrote: Honestly I have no problem with this. He is using other accounts to hack on if the allegations are true, not on his own account or accounts he is boosting. Where is the harm? He hasn't used it in a tournament (he gets 2nd in them online no hacks) so what is the witch hunt for?
I hope Blizz only resets the hacking accounts for which there is proof and does not pursue Daisuke in a more aggressive personal way (banning all his accounts without proof etc). Furthermore I would hope that no tournament takes this as evidence that he is a cheater as it certainly is not.
The ladder is not just a few practice games with friends. The ladder is used for up-and-coming players to prove themselves, competent players to practice, and even somewhat for Blizzard rankings and tournaments. It's a serious matter; it's a complete breach of trust and etiquette for this game we all share and love. You can't simply say that cheating against a legitimate opponent in hundreds of games is not a serious matter - cheating is still cheating.
On February 09 2013 12:30 algorithm0r wrote: Honestly I have no problem with this. He is using other accounts to hack on if the allegations are true, not on his own account or accounts he is boosting. Where is the harm? He hasn't used it in a tournament (he gets 2nd in them online no hacks) so what is the witch hunt for?
I hope Blizz only resets the hacking accounts for which there is proof and does not pursue Daisuke in a more aggressive personal way (banning all his accounts without proof etc). Furthermore I would hope that no tournament takes this as evidence that he is a cheater as it certainly is not.
This is very condemning evidence. The map hacking is completely obvious and so are the inject hacks. The only disputable portion is wether it was him playing or not. However the OP seems to suggest that his hotkey layout and usage match his main account which pretty much proves that it was him. Overall there really doesn't seem to be a lot of room for error in the accusation.
There is no doubt daisuki is guilty, unless for some reason he ends up not owning the account, which is extremely unlikely. But because of this i guess daisuki's career is over...I wonder what he's going to do next...
Not really all that surprising, since he waited so long to 'reveal' himself on that account for no apparent reason, especially when he left it idle for a week.
I don't understand people trying to defend him or saying that it doesn't matter if pro players hack on the ladder.
Of course it matters; every hacker is a nuisance to the game. They contribute nothing and ruin games while wasting other people's time. Players gain nothing from a loss versus a hacker and they gain only ladder points from a win. If they were hacking, there are no useful hints or lessons that the legitimate player can take away from the replay; somebody hiding cannons in your base because they know you already did a scouting round or blindly countering everything you throw at them is not real practice and not useful practice.
Every step towards eliminating it should be taken, even going so far as to ban main accounts for hacking on alt accounts. If he buys a new unbanned account, let him start again, fine, but ban everything he owns now. There is reason to be cautious in outing somebody, but with proof like this, let the pitchforks fly.
Also, Cloaken, thank you for posting here. It means a lot.
I don't understand why he would cheat. Obviously he was a strong player with his WCS finish, if he is cheating ladder it isn't real practice for him anyway, why bother?
You know what would be a good idea? To send this to TL mods/staff who can inturn message pros to review the evidence rather than posting a thread where 1000 people will not review the evidence and still say, "what a scumbag." Regardless of whether or not he hacks, his reputation is fucked, which is pretty cool. You could have saved his reputation for until after he's proven guilty, but instead now people who probably didn't watch the replays hate him.
For fucks sakes the replays have like 7-40 views on them and we're at 15 pages.
On February 09 2013 13:37 Shebuha wrote: You know what would be a good idea? To send this to TL mods/staff who can inturn message pros to review the evidence rather than posting a thread where 1000 people will not review the evidence and still say, "what a scumbag." Regardless of whether or not he hacks, his reputation is fucked, which is pretty cool. You could have saved his reputation for until after he's proven guilty, but instead now people who probably didn't watch the replays hate him.
For fucks sakes the replays have like 7-40 views on them and we're at 15 pages.
I hate that this is a thing. I would if possible love to have Blizzard hire (X) number of people whose entire job description was to uncover and eliminate hackers, because as a professional E Sport game, and the ladder being an extension of this should be a place of skill rather than a place for hackers who apparently need to hack at a game to have more fun, and if you ask me if you are hacking at Starcraft 2 you are trying too hard.
Ouch... He got caught with one hand in the cookie jar and the other hand stabbing the babysitter telling him he's not allowed to have cookies before dinner. ... I should probably get some sleep...
On February 09 2013 09:25 Torte de Lini wrote: Who's TT1? Wasn't he a hacker too or something? RemarK, did you confirm these hacking techniques from him? He knows them all!
I've heard rumors he used to play starcraft. Nothing conclusive though. Maybe he's like a coach?
Normally the community seems eager to jump to conclusions, but I won't fault them on this one. I'm not expecting to read a response from Daisuki anytime soon-this thread seems like game, set and match.
so it is 100% that the player on this account is Daisuki?
I must say, in about half the games I played him on ladder, I felt that he always chose a perfect tech path and always had the right amount of units to defend attacks. These games were very hard and I would always lose if i chose to all in.
The other half must have been where he was streaming, or just not cheating. there was a signifigant difference in his play, and he seemed to have little awareness of what I was teching to , or all inning. Suprising him with mutas and zergling run by's worked much better.
he is definitely a good player, but map hacking is inexcusable for somebody who is trying to make a name for themselves in the NA community. there should be no forgiveness for him whatsoever, and his sponsers should look elsewhere for exposure.
The community wins again, I can't believe known players still have the balls to try and hack in GM. Replays leave too much information and the community is too smart, you'd think people would have learned their lesson by now.
nice to see someone put in the work and expose this maphacker i always wonder why someone randomly one day decides to start maphacking he clearly was a decent player without the hacks, what made him decide to start doing this. probably wont ever get an answer but it definitely makes me curious
On February 09 2013 11:54 Cloaken wrote: Thanks again to the OP for this information. We were able to take some solid action based off of these details.
Please always remember you can report hacks directly to hacks@blizzard.com.
Good luck out there, and always remember to "Play Nice, Play Fair."
Sounds like it was confirmed that the accounts were daulsuki's then. Blizzard has information about which IPs the accounts were playing from and it's pretty unlikely he'd hide his IP.
On February 09 2013 12:25 Pokebunny wrote: "NITRIXdaisuki @NITRIXdaisuki I'm getting more publicity from a hacking thread than from when I won 2nd at a major tournament. I don't understand!!!"
WCS USA was like the least televised tournament I have ever seen lol. I think Playhem dailies get more coverage than that did.
Haha it's true. The only coverage of WCS USA and WCS NA I remember is about how poorly scheduled it all was
On February 09 2013 13:31 BronzeKnee wrote: I don't understand why he would cheat. Obviously he was a strong player with his WCS finish, if he is cheating ladder it isn't real practice for him anyway, why bother?
Very odd.
It really is strange. I guess there's nothing to understand, so trying to think about it is probably a waste of time. People sometimes do stupid stuff without apparent reason. I bet everyone has a bit of personal experience with that, for example being a bit unstable in puberty.
On February 09 2013 13:50 giX wrote: so it is 100% that the player on this account is Daisuki?
I must say, in about half the games I played him on ladder, I felt that he always chose a perfect tech path and always had the right amount of units to defend attacks. These games were very hard and I would always lose if i chose to all in.
The other half must have been where he was streaming, or just not cheating. there was a signifigant difference in his play, and he seemed to have little awareness of what I was teching to , or all inning. Suprising him with mutas and zergling run by's worked much better.
he is definitely a good player, but map hacking is inexcusable for somebody who is trying to make a name for themselves in the NA community. there should be no forgiveness for him whatsoever, and his sponsers should look elsewhere for exposure.
Dunno why people would be shocked if he did truly hack in regards to his current skill. In any sport / competition / even school, people who are playing at a high level but cant quite break into the top tier of going from amateurish to semi-pro/pro are usually the predominant ones to cheat since they feel the most pressure to succeed.
Damn, easily the BEST OP I've seen yet in regards to exposing a hacker, and a damn good OP in the general sense. I'd say this is pretty much obvious at this point. Serious kudos for putting in some effort.
On February 09 2013 13:50 giX wrote: so it is 100% that the player on this account is Daisuki?
I must say, in about half the games I played him on ladder, I felt that he always chose a perfect tech path and always had the right amount of units to defend attacks. These games were very hard and I would always lose if i chose to all in.
The other half must have been where he was streaming, or just not cheating. there was a signifigant difference in his play, and he seemed to have little awareness of what I was teching to , or all inning. Suprising him with mutas and zergling run by's worked much better.
he is definitely a good player, but map hacking is inexcusable for somebody who is trying to make a name for themselves in the NA community. there should be no forgiveness for him whatsoever, and his sponsers should look elsewhere for exposure.
didn't you get caught trading wins on ladder ...?
He talked about it in his blog, but trade winning on ladder isn't a big deal imo. It's a cheap way to get up ranks sure but it's not like map hacking or anything at all. He also says he then lost the same amount of games on purpose (by leaving) for when he did trade wins.
The video is all that is needed. Everything else is subjective, there is no way you can possibly prove that someone is using a maphack no matter how suspicious the movements are, because anything is still possible, however unlikely. But the video is rock-solid proof of using an automating hack, case closed, nail in the coffin.
OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
On February 09 2013 15:10 vesicular wrote: Honestly I don't care who the person is. As long as whatever account this is tied to is banned from the game, that's all I care about.
Well I dont want to see him in any tournies for a loong while. Regardless if they are live or not.
I really don't want to think he is hacking, the evidence is pretty damning. I'd like to see his statement and if he can muster a counter argument though. I really thought he was the real deal .
EDIT: He won WCS USA, which was a live event right? That means that he does have actual skills even if he is hacking, which would point to no reason for him to hack right? I'm very confused now, what is the point of him hacking on ladder when he has skills for live events. Unless ofc WCS USA was online and I'm just being forgetful.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
This kid was bm as shit in ladder. Now that he can't crack it in high level he's resorting to cheating to make up for his lack of skill LoL, I will be sure to contact NITRIXENERGY about this.
On February 09 2013 16:31 WardenSC wrote: This kid was bm as shit in ladder. Now that he can't crack it in high level he's resorting to cheating to make up for his lack of skill LoL, I will be sure to contact NITRIXENERGY about this.
if you do contact his ponsor, it would be cool you contact another sponsor to say how much you appreciate their support for sc2
Maybe this doesnt make a huge difference in terms of tournament results or the average guys ladder experience, but hacking still de-legitimizes esports and at the end of the day is pretty pointless and petty
Ok well, theres no arguments here. I think its safe to say this evidence is 100% conclusive. Daisuki I am sorry for you man but its over, you can go play LoL or something now, bye!
fools, all of you. Don't you see that this is just a set up for THE april fools bomb that'll drop in 51 days?
This is so painfully obvious that I don't really see how ANY of you can still not see it... guys. come on. This guy's name is RemarK! You know what RemarK spells backwards? KrameR.
You ALL should know what I'm getting at by now, but I'll spill it out anyway. You know the Seinfeld character right? Kramer! his first name was Cosmo.
Cosmo -> Cosmos.
You know what you have in a Cosmos? Solar Eclipses. You know who we haven't heard of in a long time? only the people who brought us the greatest april fools joke in the history of SC2, Eclypsia! UP UNTIL NOW THAT IS! That's right, I found it all out...
what, still don't believe me you say? need further proof you say?
Well let me answer with MATH sheeple!
e c l y p s i a <--- see those letters? 5 3 12 25 16 19 9 1 <--- see those corresponding numbers to their place in the alphabet? wanna guess what you get when you get when you add those up? 90! and what date is it today? 02-09-2013
20-02 in the alphabet backwards = I 13 in the alphabet = M 09 (90) = eclypsia !
Well done, RemarK (KrameR) you might have almost managed to get away with your little forwards backwards trick, but I found it all out. In case anyone couldn't follow me this far, here's my conclusion!
RemarK is actually the collective eclypsia management obsessed with topping their last year's feat by doing some of their trademark PR work for their new captain (Daisuki) of the NEW FORMED eclypsia. Also they might have Nitrix as a headsponsor! I'm kind of disappointed no one else has figured that out by now honestly.
On February 09 2013 17:24 dNa wrote: fools, all of you. Don't you see that this is just a set up for THE april fools bomb that'll drop in 51 days?
This is so painfully obvious that I don't really see how ANY of you can still not see it... guys. come on. This guy's name is RemarK! You know what RemarK spells backwards? KrameR.
You ALL should know what I'm getting at by now, but I'll spill it out anyway. You know the Seinfeld character right? Kramer! his first name was Cosmo.
Cosmo -> Cosmos.
You know what you have in a Cosmos? Solar Eclipses. You know who we haven't heard of in a long time? only the people who brought us the greatest april fools joke in the history of SC2, Eclypsia! UP UNTIL NOW THAT IS! That's right, I found it all out...
what, still don't believe me you say? need further proof you say?
Well let me answer with MATH sheeple!
e c l y p s i a <--- see those letters? 5 3 12 25 16 19 9 1 <--- see those corresponding numbers to their place in the alphabet? wanna guess what you get when you get when you add those up? 90! and what date is it today? 02-09-2013
20-02 in the alphabet backwards = I 13 in the alphabet = M 09 (90) = eclypsia !
Well done, RemarK (KrameR) you might have almost managed to get away with your little forwards backwards trick, but I found it all out. In case anyone couldn't follow me this far, here's my conclusion!
RemarK is actually the collective eclypsia management obsessed with topping their last year's feat by doing some of their trademark PR work for their new captain (Daisuki) of the NEW FORMED eclypsia. Also they might have Nitrix as a headsponsor! I'm kind of disappointed no one else has figured that out by now honestly.
On February 09 2013 17:24 dNa wrote: fools, all of you. Don't you see that this is just a set up for THE april fools bomb that'll drop in 51 days?
This is so painfully obvious that I don't really see how ANY of you can still not see it... guys. come on. This guy's name is RemarK! You know what RemarK spells backwards? KrameR.
You ALL should know what I'm getting at by now, but I'll spill it out anyway. You know the Seinfeld character right? Kramer! his first name was Cosmo.
Cosmo -> Cosmos.
You know what you have in a Cosmos? Solar Eclipses. You know who we haven't heard of in a long time? only the people who brought us the greatest april fools joke in the history of SC2, Eclypsia! UP UNTIL NOW THAT IS! That's right, I found it all out...
what, still don't believe me you say? need further proof you say?
Well let me answer with MATH sheeple!
e c l y p s i a <--- see those letters? 5 3 12 25 16 19 9 1 <--- see those corresponding numbers to their place in the alphabet? wanna guess what you get when you get when you add those up? 90! and what date is it today? 02-09-2013
20-02 in the alphabet backwards = I 13 in the alphabet = M 09 (90) = eclypsia !
Well done, RemarK (KrameR) you might have almost managed to get away with your little forwards backwards trick, but I found it all out. In case anyone couldn't follow me this far, here's my conclusion!
RemarK is actually the collective eclypsia management obsessed with topping their last year's feat by doing some of their trademark PR work for their new captain (Daisuki) of the NEW FORMED eclypsia. Also they might have Nitrix as a headsponsor! I'm kind of disappointed no one else has figured that out by now honestly.
On February 09 2013 17:24 dNa wrote: fools, all of you. Don't you see that this is just a set up for THE april fools bomb that'll drop in 51 days?
This is so painfully obvious that I don't really see how ANY of you can still not see it... guys. come on. This guy's name is RemarK! You know what RemarK spells backwards? KrameR.
You ALL should know what I'm getting at by now, but I'll spill it out anyway. You know the Seinfeld character right? Kramer! his first name was Cosmo.
Cosmo -> Cosmos.
You know what you have in a Cosmos? Solar Eclipses. You know who we haven't heard of in a long time? only the people who brought us the greatest april fools joke in the history of SC2, Eclypsia! UP UNTIL NOW THAT IS! That's right, I found it all out...
what, still don't believe me you say? need further proof you say?
Well let me answer with MATH sheeple!
e c l y p s i a <--- see those letters? 5 3 12 25 16 19 9 1 <--- see those corresponding numbers to their place in the alphabet? wanna guess what you get when you get when you add those up? 90! and what date is it today? 02-09-2013
20-02 in the alphabet backwards = I 13 in the alphabet = M 09 (90) = eclypsia !
Well done, RemarK (KrameR) you might have almost managed to get away with your little forwards backwards trick, but I found it all out. In case anyone couldn't follow me this far, here's my conclusion!
RemarK is actually the collective eclypsia management obsessed with topping their last year's feat by doing some of their trademark PR work for their new captain (Daisuki) of the NEW FORMED eclypsia. Also they might have Nitrix as a headsponsor! I'm kind of disappointed no one else has figured that out by now honestly.
This is a brilliant and yet terrible, terrible post. I approve.
On February 09 2013 16:58 ToD wrote: So let's summarize all this, Maphack, Auto-inject, and the guy plays Zerg ? wtf , seriously ?
What are you implying here ToD?
I think he means Zerg is powerful enough to win without the map hack or something. I think Protoss is a lot easier to map hack with because of the hard counters and you get to skip over ZvZ although if you do see what they are doing in ZvZ you can do very well but if they are playing safe it really doesn't help you all that much.
I didn't really think about this when I read about this first but the truth it how bad do you have to be to maphack with Zerg in the first place. Like if he is GM anyway without map hacks he should be able to inject well so he doesn't need that. He has vision with overlords if he was spreading right. Like I really can't see why you would do it. You can scout with overlords and poke up the ramp and stuff if you really want info the map hack barely helps.
Just watched most of the replays, in some there's auto-inject, in some there isn't, no doubt the person(s) playing with the name NITRIXeDRINK (there are two accounts with the same name) is(are) map hacking.
Assuming that that person(s) was Daisuki indeed, with all the maphacking it puzzles me that the creep spread was almost nonexistent, that he had wrong army composition most of the times (with all the map hacking), that he over-commits a lot loosing his entire army (one of the replays made me laugh, he teched to brood lords, made few (that didn't lived for long) then he went full hydras against blink stalkers/immortals/archons/storm till the end of the game instead of making more broodlords/infestors [the bank was more than enough to support that composition] and ofc loosing the game)
Dunno what to say, but judging from those replays, the person(s) in question is not gm material (can't even make an educated guess about his true league level that's how poorly he played) .
So, was it the real Daisuki or not? The hell I care, not =)
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
You almost got me for a sec. Until the whole land of the free part.
Great catch here. I hope this map hacker get's banned by blizzard. You should definitely post this analysis in the blizzard forums. IP ban this guy Blizzard!
On February 09 2013 16:58 ToD wrote: So let's summarize all this, Maphack, Auto-inject, and the guy plays Zerg ? wtf , seriously ?
What are you implying here ToD?
I think he means Zerg is powerful enough to win without the map hack or something. I think Protoss is a lot easier to map hack with because of the hard counters and you get to skip over ZvZ although if you do see what they are doing in ZvZ you can do very well but if they are playing safe it really doesn't help you all that much.
I didn't really think about this when I read about this first but the truth it how bad do you have to be to maphack with Zerg in the first place. Like if he is GM anyway without map hacks he should be able to inject well so he doesn't need that. He has vision with overlords if he was spreading right. Like I really can't see why you would do it. You can scout with overlords and poke up the ramp and stuff if you really want info the map hack barely helps.
He's implying balance cause he's being dumb.
Mapachk also would benefit zerg (in wol) the most out of any races. It's not the easiest thing to scout inside a toss/terrans base and hit the right location to see his tech.
A zerg with map hacks will never be caught unawares from drops, tech switches or anything.
On February 09 2013 17:24 dNa wrote: fools, all of you. Don't you see that this is just a set up for THE april fools bomb that'll drop in 51 days?
.....
LOL. Your post has made my day.
Also terrific job RemarK! I hope Blizzard works on trying to find preventative measures to all the hacking. I know you can`t completely rid them all, but the less the better.
dNa... holy crap you put ALOT of effort into that one. crap dude. well done
OP or mods, i think it would be worth it to note in the op the response by blizzard just so it is noted, because its nice for people to see something was/will be done about it, and also so people don't bother to take it on themselves to post to blizz forums. just imo
Funny how there's people still trying to defend this guy and making dumb posts about pitchforks and witch hunts when there's a video clearly showing the guy auto-injecting. I think it's pretty obvious who the people are who didn't read the OP.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
Frankly, you have a shitty sense of humor. And yes, i know the background (Spades).
This post is indeed better than the previous ones with less assumptions of 'pros' about suspicious movements and more 'clear' evidence. Too bad he chose for the easy way...
That being said, take it slowly before yelling everywhere that he's hacking..
I remembered this guy's name from his terrible advertising thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342629). It's really sad he got a personnal sponsorship though hacking. I'll never understand people like that. It's really being a borderline sociopath.
Really great post Remark. When you touch a players reputation you better get some evidence, and truth be told; you got a lot. Can't have too much in these cases. I really don't see any way out of this situation for Daisuki than a confession. Or he must be a millionaire by always getting lucky. Clicking through the fog on a hidden probe at 4th, then again when the probe moves a bit.. I mean.. Christ. Explain that.
And I love this:
At 13:05, his opponent says “why do u pretend like u dont maphack when its so obvious.” Daisuki responds to this by sending a Zergling to his opponent's watch tower for the first time all game. This isn't really evidence of anything, I just thought it was funny.
On February 09 2013 21:27 Nimix wrote: I remembered this guy's name from his terrible advertising thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342629). It's really sad he got a personnal sponsorship though hacking. I'll never understand people like that. It's really being a borderline sociopath.
Most of the time these kinds of threads doesn't hold enough evidence, and you can't tell if it's a try to hurt someones reputation or the accusation actually is true. You however Detective RemarK, put up far more evidence than was needed. And for that, i salute you. After reading through the entire content i don't think there is any doubts at all whether the accused Daisuki is using cheats or not. This jury-member has spoken and find the accused individual a convict.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
and of course anyone else would have gotten banned.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
and of course anyone else would have gotten banned.
man i find all this incredible funny . this is so obvious is funny he is not rank1 gm with so much information and hack . like map hack is the biggest advantage ever . why the fk would you need auto inject aswel ? damn those kids with wooden hands
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
1/10 troll, would not read again.
Yeah CatZ could learn a thing or two from that guy who started the "Fit to Lick" thread...
As for daisuki, this all looks pretty damning but if he gets down on his knees and gives a sincere apology an promises to stop then I could forgive him (although it might take all of your pitchforks to get him there). I've already managed to forgive sAviOr so I think he should be fine, especially if he adds a couple offline victories to his resume.
Excellent work on your annalises of replays, to accuse some one of maphack is easy, the detective work you put in it is simply spot on, and very compelling and far more difficult to prove.
You have me convinced atleast, no way can some one play this suspicious without map hacking.
On February 09 2013 12:25 Pokebunny wrote: "NITRIXdaisuki @NITRIXdaisuki I'm getting more publicity from a hacking thread than from when I won 2nd at a major tournament. I don't understand!!!"
WCS USA was like the least televised tournament I have ever seen lol. I think Playhem dailies get more coverage than that did.
Haha it's true. The only coverage of WCS USA and WCS NA I remember is about how poorly scheduled it all was
I remember it interrupted the MLG spring championship finals. I also remember how much I face palmed watching it go from MKP vs Alicia skill level to ViBE vs Daisuki skill level...
Very nice review op, it's perfectly clear he either can read people's minds of is map hacker.
What's funny, i checked several of his reps and in some of them where he does not use auto inject, his queens' energy goes very high in longer games, while on 20 minute game with auto inject, all of his queens pop perfect injects every single time whole game even when he is microing the battle.
Also he does not even try to hide that he is map hacking so he either does not give a damn about the fact that others will figure that out or he is just retarded.
Kinda funny that he has posted a tweet about it, but he didn't deny it. And he also hasn't posted in this thread.
The evidence as already conclusive, but how he is acting just seals it imo. Its like he doesn't even care that he has been accused.
Blizzard posting on it just clarifies it even more. They can match the IP of the accounts and whatnot.
Good work. Sad to see a a good pro player hacking solely so tha the can keep a handful of accounts in GM, more than likely just so he can keep his personal sponsorship. Kinda sad he's hacking for what appears just to be 'too lazy' as his excuse.
daisuki has been accused of shady things in the past. One of the accounts he said he used on TL once or released replays of was found to be hacking over a year ago. (I believe "NITRIXENERGY" was the account) people had other drama to worry about at the time or it might have been around the same time the pitchforks were out for Spades or something so it got ignored or forgotten about.
First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
This post creates more questions than it answers...
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
It's not that simple dude. I hope you are banned from all future tournaments.
Ladder is where most of the pros train and it's serious business.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way.
Learned what? That other people can catch you cheating?
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
It's not that simple dude. I hope you are banned from all future tournaments.
That's a little harsh. Whether his remorse over his actions is genuine and if he stays clean will remain to be seen. But if he can more thoroughly explain himself and prove that he's changed, we have no right keeping him out of tournaments when he's already proved he is a worthy competitor.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Except you did make a conscious decision to do what you were told (lol, really?) to do. I highly doubt that you were not in charge of your own actions at any time when you were maphacking.
You're guilty, plain and simple, trying to get away from it by saying "someone else made the decision" is a horrible excuse.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
you should get some advice from CombatEx on how to write an apology you "learned it the hard way", lol
On February 09 2013 23:58 LuckyFool wrote: blizzard invited many WCS spots last year based off ladder. so in a way ladder is an online tournament in an abstract sort of way.
Thats kind of what I was thinking WCS is the one tournament where ladder ranking really matters. It's inexcusable either way, tournament life should be over for this player.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
It's not that simple dude. I hope you are banned from all future tournaments.
That's a little harsh. Whether his remorse over his actions is genuine and if he stays clean will remain to be seen. But if he can more thoroughly explain himself and prove that he's changed, we have no right keeping him out of tournaments when he's already proved he is a worthy competitor.
Cheating is probably worst you can do in the world of starcraft. So if you it's not banned doing that then what is ban-worthy at all? Oh and of course he didn't cheat in offline tournaments cause it wouldn't even be possible.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Except you did make a conscious decision to do what you were told (lol, really?) to do. I highly doubt that you were not in charge of your own actions at any time when you were maphacking.
You're guilty, plain and simple, trying to get away from it by saying "someone else made the decision" is a horrible excuse.
That may be, but I think that the point is that if his actions were prompted by, let's say, this stupid ass energy drink sponsor, then they are also supporting cheating. Gives us yet another reason to despise their "drink."
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Except you did make a conscious decision to do what you were told (lol, really?) to do. I highly doubt that you were not in charge of your own actions at any time when you were maphacking.
You're guilty, plain and simple, trying to get away from it by saying "someone else made the decision" is a horrible excuse.
That may be, but I think that the point is that if his actions were prompted by, let's say, this stupid ass energy drink sponsor, then they are also supporting cheating. Gives us yet another reason to despise their "drink."
He should have found another sponsor... he has no one to blame but himself for his actions.
On February 10 2013 00:01 7mk wrote: Thats kind of what I was thinking WCS is the one tournament where ladder ranking really matters.
Ironic that the one tournament he does well in, is the one where you can qualify via the ladder. I am aware he qualified through Playhem, but that is played online too...
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Except you did make a conscious decision to do what you were told (lol, really?) to do. I highly doubt that you were not in charge of your own actions at any time when you were maphacking.
You're guilty, plain and simple, trying to get away from it by saying "someone else made the decision" is a horrible excuse.
That may be, but I think that the point is that if his actions were prompted by, let's say, this stupid ass energy drink sponsor, then they are also supporting cheating. Gives us yet another reason to despise their "drink."
He should have found another sponsor... He has no one to blame but himself for his actions.
Agree, but sometimes things aren't as simple as they appear to be. There is some background story about the sponsor and daisuki imo.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Except you did make a conscious decision to do what you were told (lol, really?) to do. I highly doubt that you were not in charge of your own actions at any time when you were maphacking.
You're guilty, plain and simple, trying to get away from it by saying "someone else made the decision" is a horrible excuse.
That may be, but I think that the point is that if his actions were prompted by, let's say, this stupid ass energy drink sponsor, then they are also supporting cheating. Gives us yet another reason to despise their "drink."
He should have found another sponsor... He has no one to blame but himself for his actions.
Again, true, but that is not the point that I am shooting for, not trying to take blame away from his actions, but find out who else knew and supported these actions, for they are also guilty in the support of cheating. Just trying to get clear information, not shift blame.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Rofl what a joke, you are so terrible at lying. The only thing you are sorry about is getting caught. People like you are toxic for the gaming community. Cheating is cheating. You've ruined online experiences for others. I hope you step on a lego and get banned from b.net!
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Rofl what a joke, you are so terrible at lying. The only thing you are sorry about is getting caught. People like you are toxic for the gaming community. Cheating is cheating. You've ruined online experiences for others. I hope you step on a lego and get banned from b.net!
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
I hope you step on a lego
Woah dude, I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy :o
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
It's not that simple dude. I hope you are banned from all future tournaments.
That's a little harsh. Whether his remorse over his actions is genuine and if he stays clean will remain to be seen. But if he can more thoroughly explain himself and prove that he's changed, we have no right keeping him out of tournaments when he's already proved he is a worthy competitor.
Cheating is probably worst you can do in the world of starcraft. So if you it's not banned doing that then what is ban-worthy at all? Oh and of course he didn't cheat in offline tournaments cause it wouldn't even be possible.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
I hope you step on a lego
Woah dude, I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy :o
He even wrote in his post that it was sarcasm so it couldnt be left to interpretation >.>
On February 10 2013 00:04 BronzeKnee wrote: Well, Catz looks like a fool now.
Uhh... his whole post was sarcasm you know.
On February 10 2013 00:07 ReachTheSky wrote:
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
I hope you step on a lego
Woah dude, I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy :o
He even wrote in his post that it was sarcasm so it couldnt be left to interpretation >.>
Well, that makes me the fool. I didn't read the whole post.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Ohhhhh poor me I was forced! They made me do it! THEY MADE ME DO IT GODDDD!!!
How the fuck did you come to the conclusion you learned from it "the hard way|", the "hard way" is for you to be banned from everything for a pretty long time, lose you personal sponsorship and have t o prove yourself from scratch.
It's so pathetic that after being caught you start being all apologetic while trying to minimize the severity of your actions "I hope some laddering isn't important, like...who cares I hacked and ruined people's practice time, and their stream viewership and all sorts of insignificant things like that hahaha"
Is there a proof that Daisuki is that map hack ?? Why not just present the facts and not give the conclusion first (name of thread... yeah I know there is a "?" but come on...) I didn't read all the comments but once again we will come to a conclusion without even listening to the very guy ? ... it's just the hatred towards hackers projected on him. This is not right seriously ...
edit : kk just read that he admitted it but still ...
On February 10 2013 00:35 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Is there a proof that Daisuki is that map hack ?? Why not just present the facts and not give the conclusion first (name of thread... yeah I know there is a "?" but come on...) I didn't read all the comments but once again we will come to a conclusion without even listening to the very guy ? ... it's just the hatred towards hackers projected on him. This is not right seriously ...
He already admitted it.
Also if you would bother to read OP's review or watch some reps, then you would see it's obvious that he map hacked.
On February 10 2013 00:35 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Is there a proof that Daisuki is that map hack ?? Why not just present the facts and not give the conclusion first (name of thread... yeah I know there is a "?" but come on...) I didn't read all the comments but once again we will come to a conclusion without even listening to the very guy ? ... it's just the hatred towards hackers projected on him. This is not right seriously ...
edit : kk just read that he admitted it but still ...
One should read the OP before questioning the OP's validity.
On February 10 2013 00:35 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Is there a proof that Daisuki is that map hack ?? Why not just present the facts and not give the conclusion first (name of thread... yeah I know there is a "?" but come on...) I didn't read all the comments but once again we will come to a conclusion without even listening to the very guy ? ... it's just the hatred towards hackers projected on him. This is not right seriously ...
edit : kk just read that he admitted it but still ...
but still? Did you see how damn thorough the OP was? But still? Fuck this shit, if you have 99.9% evidence but the guy says wasnt me you just forget? dont be so naive
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Here's what I think (it is my opinion I'm not saying I'm positive about that):
-You read all the comments (like I just did)
-You realized some people wanted to defend you and blamed your sponsor
-You imply that your sponsors made you do it (quite obviously the bold part)
That's how I think it happened. I doubt you were forced to hack. I really doubt that.
God damn........excellent work RemarK and everyone who helped. This has to be the most conclusive and researched case of maphacking that I can remember. Quite obvious and conclusive if you ask me. High Masters +350 apm Zerg here.......I dedicate like 25% of that apm to scouting.
I'm sure if we watch any of Daisuki's streamed games, he would never just rally all his overlords into his main. That is the most obvious shit ever, overlords are your best friend, Yggdrasill is disappoint.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Bullshit response , you are sorry ? LOL ! ......you are sorry you got caught ! trash !
You risk all your fame and good name for a few bucks? come on man.. you should be better then that..
If you weren't able to level the account share them with some other pros, i'm sure you know most of them. Share the accounts and the cash and it's easy.. don't be a greedy bastard and use hacks!
Now the sponsor looks like shit and you look like a stupid hacker
This is just sad when even progamers who can place well at lan events use hacks and are even bold enough to say .. its only ladder its no big deal .. What the fuk
Well this is a pretty good case study in how if a pro hacks, he WILL be caught. Or at least I would to think so...but there's always the possibility someone would get so good at disguising hacking that they do scout etc, so they use the hack only for a marginal advantage.
On February 09 2013 07:10 KawaiiRice wrote: quick, contact his sponsors ! '~'
Or not. What if they were working together ? Only way for these sponsors to win some fame if they didn't get caught. But now they can only deny. Either way it sucks.
That's interesting actually. If sponsors are pressuring Daisuki to hack, then I'm actually OK with Daisuki being assimilated back into the community. Players DEPEND on their paychecks from sponsors - and if the sponsors don't pay the player, the player can't do anything (what are they going to do? Sue (hint: they can't/won't)).
But for that to happen, we'll need a shit load of evidence from him, including screenshots of sponsors explicit telling him this....
And again, if he did it on his own accord, then it's been fun.
From page 10. Waiting for 'shit load of evidence' now..
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Rofl what a joke, you are so terrible at lying. The only thing you are sorry about is getting caught. People like you are toxic for the gaming community. Cheating is cheating. You've ruined online experiences for others. I hope you step on a lego and get banned from b.net!
Haha stepping on Lego is gold, thanks for that. And it brings back painful memories of old <3
And i agree, to let youself get so low for a bit of money is no excuse. such a childish reply Daisuki.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Here's what I think (it is my opinion I'm not saying I'm positive about that):
-You read all the comments (like I just did)
-You realized some people wanted to defend you and blamed your sponsor
-You imply that your sponsors made you do it (quite obviously the bold part)
That's how I think it happened. I doubt you were forced to hack. I really doubt that.
Gl in the future ~
This is also the impression that I get.
Essentially, if you were 'forced' to cheat, pics or it didn't happen.I'm not sure it even matters tho...
In the military, if a commanding officer gives you an order to carry out an illegal action, you are responsible for saying 'no', or you will face the consequences of your actions.
Kingdom of Heaven has a relevant quote: (I'm not religious, but the idea works standing before your peers) "When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus," or that virtue was not convenient at the time"
It doesn't even matter if others told him to do it, or if it was more profitable to cheat. That is not an excuse.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You're an adult, you are capable of making your own decisions. You should be smart enough to know the risks and the consequences of doing what you did. Unless you are incapable of thinking for yourself you knew this was wrong and did it anyways. Hard to believe it was a "mistake". You're going to have a hell of a time getting any respect and credibility back. Good luck.
"All i have to say is, i've been accused of map hacking AND I DONT so whoever is throwing accusations out there better have great evidence backing it up " ~daisuki in the thread about spades, well i guess you do hack
I think daisuki just didn't think it through, cheating just to have a higher ladder rank (and whatever he meant by he didn't make the decision) and I guess he thought it was worth losing all the reputation and potential sponsor and tournament attendence?
On February 10 2013 01:44 Winterfrozz wrote: "All i have to say is, i've been accused of map hacking AND I DONT so whoever is throwing accusations out there better have great evidence backing it up " ~daisuki in the thread about spades, well i guess you do hack
well done.
Eh, I think it's a bit different - many people respect and agree that Daisuki was a top NA player even before maphacking... spades had a clear jump in skill level lol.
Not that I would ever support daisuki on this in any way... I believe him that he didn't maphack til recently.
I really hate maphack or any kind of cheat, it really takes the fun out of the game. I hope it isn't as spread on EU/NA server as some are saying here. I don't really know what I should think about the postulate stating that the sponsor was making him do it. Why wouldn't they just hire someone who is already gm or high masters? I think they could find someone with a decent level who could be GM against money... And about the player, how can someone make maphacking so obvious...?
On February 10 2013 00:46 wardou wrote: He is not maphacking, you just mad because he has owned you several times already.
User was warned for this post
Didnt you read through the thread? You need at least a couple of k posts to be allowed to make use of sarcasm.
Well that is pretty sad and honestly pretty dumb to hack on Accounts where you actually plug your sponsors in and defenetively say "these are mine" but yeah pretty big fish we caught there.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
In my opinion: (i know most of you wont agree with me)
Cheating on ladder: 1 year ban Cheating on ladder for second time (after 1 year ban): Permaban
Cheating on online tournaments: permaban from all tournaments
Also: i know then they can just create more accounts for ladder, but blizzard could implement a system to check if when you try to buy an account you have already entered that info on a banned account, like credit card number, name, etc.
Also, 30€ is much for creating just another account. most hackers will quit the game after they get banned.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Well defenetively it's not like he is bad certainly because he managed to get runnerup in an offline event but still it's unacceptable to be an outed maphacker and to allow him to ever play online events ever again.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
He's probably saying that because he was pretty good before using hacks. Most hackers are bad, hence why they use hacks to boost their skill. This guy was already GM, and just used the hack for getting top 16..
Also, following your logic, we should ban dragon (admitted maphacking and streamcheating), spades, etc.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
Ok, ban everyone else that was forgiven from the community then as well. (Do you know who they happen to be btw?)
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
CatZ, I would like to commend you on your amazing post here. I laughed out loud at the part "nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope" follow up by "ONLY God can judge people such as this." But clearly satire is not something the community does well with. But you improved my day.
Also, all cheaters get banned, end of story. If it is good enough for the Tour De France and the Olympics, its good enough for SC2. If don't want to get banned from events, don't install hacks on your PC or let other people use your account.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
CatZ, I would like to commend you on your amazing post here. I laughed out loud at the part "nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope" follow up by "ONLY God can judge people such as this." But clearly satire is not something the community does well with. But you improved my day.
Also, all cheaters get banned, end of story. If it is good enough for the Tour De France and the Olympics, its good enough for SC2. If don't want to get banned from events, don't install hacks on your PC or let other people use your account.
Not end of story. Multiple hackers have been forgiven sooooo...?
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
He's probably saying that because he was pretty good before using hacks. Most hackers are bad, hence why they use hacks to boost their skill. This guy was already GM, and just used the hack for getting top 16..
Yeah that is definitely a terrible idea. So what if he was good pre-hack. He still cheated. His skill has nothing to do with him breaking the golden rule and ruining the online gaming experience for others.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
Ok, ban everyone else that was forgiven from the community then as well. (Do you know who they happen to be btw?)
The others were completely sincere and remorseful. This guy has already proven the opposite with his response. He doesn't give a shit and he is just sorry he got caught while trying to use someone else as a scapegoat. It's pathetic.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
He's probably saying that because he was pretty good before using hacks. Most hackers are bad, hence why they use hacks to boost their skill. This guy was already GM, and just used the hack for getting top 16..
Yeah that is definitely a terrible idea. So what if he was good pre-hack. He still cheated. His skill has nothing to do with him breaking the golden rule and ruining the online gaming experience for others.
Yeah? And if he maintains himself well, he'll be forgiven and picked up soon enough.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
He's probably saying that because he was pretty good before using hacks. Most hackers are bad, hence why they use hacks to boost their skill. This guy was already GM, and just used the hack for getting top 16..
Yeah that is definitely a terrible idea. So what if he was good pre-hack. He still cheated. His skill has nothing to do with him breaking the golden rule and ruining the online gaming experience for others.
Well, it seems many people have broken this "golden rule" and are still playing the game. What kind of rule it is if the don't enforce it to everyone?
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
Ok, ban everyone else that was forgiven from the community then as well. (Do you know who they happen to be btw?)
The others were completely sincere and remorseful. This guy has already proven the opposite with his response. He doesn't give a shit and he is just sorry he got caught while trying to use someone else as a scapegoat. It's pathetic.
So you're saying the rule doesn't mean shit if you're just "SINCERE AND REMORSEFUL". LOL
and as you would say: THEY STILL CHEATED. they should be put in the same bag as all hackers, but NO. because they were "SINCERE AND REMORSEFUL".
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
CatZ, I would like to commend you on your amazing post here. I laughed out loud at the part "nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope" follow up by "ONLY God can judge people such as this." But clearly satire is not something the community does well with. But you improved my day.
Also, all cheaters get banned, end of story. If it is good enough for the Tour De France and the Olympics, its good enough for SC2. If don't want to get banned from events, don't install hacks on your PC or let other people use your account.
Not end of story. Multiple hackers have been forgiven sooooo...?
If they want to come back after a few years, great. Of course you treat everyone on a case by case basis. But they need to wait, for a while. A full year is a good place to start for me.
On February 10 2013 01:49 Putty wrote: We shoud give him a second chance imho...
Bad idea. Hacking is one of the worst things you could do in gaming. Giving someone a get out of jail free card tells people that you can get caught once and get away with it. He should be permed from b.net and tl.net.
Ok, ban everyone else that was forgiven from the community then as well. (Do you know who they happen to be btw?)
The others were completely sincere and remorseful. This guy has already proven the opposite with his response. He doesn't give a shit and he is just sorry he got caught while trying to use someone else as a scapegoat. It's pathetic.
So you're saying the rule doesn't mean shit if you're just "SINCERE AND REMORSEFUL". LOL
and as you would say: THEY STILL CHEATED. they should be put in the same bag as all hackers, but NO. because they were "SINCERE AND REMORSEFUL".
The others put in their time and waited too. That is the key part. Forgiveness takes time. A year ban is good and then we see where we are after that. We can all accept that fact that people can change, but we are not going to assume it is going to happen over night.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
CatZ, I would like to commend you on your amazing post here. I laughed out loud at the part "nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope" follow up by "ONLY God can judge people such as this." But clearly satire is not something the community does well with. But you improved my day.
Also, all cheaters get banned, end of story. If it is good enough for the Tour De France and the Olympics, its good enough for SC2. If don't want to get banned from events, don't install hacks on your PC or let other people use your account.
Not end of story. Multiple hackers have been forgiven sooooo...?
If they want to come back after a few years, great. Of course you treat everyone on a case by case basis. But they need to wait, for a while. A full year is a good place to start for me.
If he continues to play, i give it within 6 months that he'll get picked up by a team and no one will care anymore. (not saying i agree with this, I agree with you actually, but this is what i think will happen in reality)
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Unfortunately saying sorry doesn`t change your actions. And yes, YOU DID make this decision. It might not have been your idea but you followed through and agreed to it. No victim card to be played here.
While I don`t think you should be banned from tournaments forever, you should at least be suspended for some period of time, but then again that is the decision of tournament makers. Ladder may be meaningless to you (rank, experience, etc) but you have been ruining the experience of other players you play online.
On February 09 2013 17:24 dNa wrote: fools, all of you. Don't you see that this is just a set up for THE april fools bomb that'll drop in 51 days?
This is so painfully obvious that I don't really see how ANY of you can still not see it... guys. come on. This guy's name is RemarK! You know what RemarK spells backwards? KrameR.
You ALL should know what I'm getting at by now, but I'll spill it out anyway. You know the Seinfeld character right? Kramer! his first name was Cosmo.
Cosmo -> Cosmos.
You know what you have in a Cosmos? Solar Eclipses. You know who we haven't heard of in a long time? only the people who brought us the greatest april fools joke in the history of SC2, Eclypsia! UP UNTIL NOW THAT IS! That's right, I found it all out...
what, still don't believe me you say? need further proof you say?
Well let me answer with MATH sheeple!
e c l y p s i a <--- see those letters? 5 3 12 25 16 19 9 1 <--- see those corresponding numbers to their place in the alphabet? wanna guess what you get when you get when you add those up? 90! and what date is it today? 02-09-2013
20-02 in the alphabet backwards = I 13 in the alphabet = M 09 (90) = eclypsia !
Well done, RemarK (KrameR) you might have almost managed to get away with your little forwards backwards trick, but I found it all out. In case anyone couldn't follow me this far, here's my conclusion!
RemarK is actually the collective eclypsia management obsessed with topping their last year's feat by doing some of their trademark PR work for their new captain (Daisuki) of the NEW FORMED eclypsia. Also they might have Nitrix as a headsponsor! I'm kind of disappointed no one else has figured that out by now honestly.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
even MORE evidence. well doesn't anyone who didn't believe me initially feel stupid now!
On February 09 2013 17:24 dNa wrote: fools, all of you. Don't you see that this is just a set up for THE april fools bomb that'll drop in 51 days?
This is so painfully obvious that I don't really see how ANY of you can still not see it... guys. come on. This guy's name is RemarK! You know what RemarK spells backwards? KrameR.
You ALL should know what I'm getting at by now, but I'll spill it out anyway. You know the Seinfeld character right? Kramer! his first name was Cosmo.
Cosmo -> Cosmos.
You know what you have in a Cosmos? Solar Eclipses. You know who we haven't heard of in a long time? only the people who brought us the greatest april fools joke in the history of SC2, Eclypsia! UP UNTIL NOW THAT IS! That's right, I found it all out...
what, still don't believe me you say? need further proof you say?
Well let me answer with MATH sheeple!
e c l y p s i a <--- see those letters? 5 3 12 25 16 19 9 1 <--- see those corresponding numbers to their place in the alphabet? wanna guess what you get when you get when you add those up? 90! and what date is it today? 02-09-2013
20-02 in the alphabet backwards = I 13 in the alphabet = M 09 (90) = eclypsia !
Well done, RemarK (KrameR) you might have almost managed to get away with your little forwards backwards trick, but I found it all out. In case anyone couldn't follow me this far, here's my conclusion!
RemarK is actually the collective eclypsia management obsessed with topping their last year's feat by doing some of their trademark PR work for their new captain (Daisuki) of the NEW FORMED eclypsia. Also they might have Nitrix as a headsponsor! I'm kind of disappointed no one else has figured that out by now honestly.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
even MORE evidence. well doesn't anyone who didn't believe me initially feel stupid now!
I want some of whatever you were smoking when you wrote that post. O_____o
On February 10 2013 02:30 Msr wrote: I thought it was pretty obvious he hacked from his play style, surprised it took people this long for people to figure it out
He only started hacking 2 weeks ago (or so he says?)
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Wtf i guess you would jump into a fucking well if someone told you to do so. Wtf how can someone "force" you to hack. (I'm sorry if you were pointed with gun the whole time when you were cheating then it is totally ok to do so but i don't think that happen) IMO there should be no exception just because he is pro gamer just ban.
On February 09 2013 17:24 dNa wrote: fools, all of you. Don't you see that this is just a set up for THE april fools bomb that'll drop in 51 days?
This is so painfully obvious that I don't really see how ANY of you can still not see it... guys. come on. This guy's name is RemarK! You know what RemarK spells backwards? KrameR.
You ALL should know what I'm getting at by now, but I'll spill it out anyway. You know the Seinfeld character right? Kramer! his first name was Cosmo.
Cosmo -> Cosmos.
You know what you have in a Cosmos? Solar Eclipses. You know who we haven't heard of in a long time? only the people who brought us the greatest april fools joke in the history of SC2, Eclypsia! UP UNTIL NOW THAT IS! That's right, I found it all out...
what, still don't believe me you say? need further proof you say?
Well let me answer with MATH sheeple!
e c l y p s i a <--- see those letters? 5 3 12 25 16 19 9 1 <--- see those corresponding numbers to their place in the alphabet? wanna guess what you get when you get when you add those up? 90! and what date is it today? 02-09-2013
20-02 in the alphabet backwards = I 13 in the alphabet = M 09 (90) = eclypsia !
Well done, RemarK (KrameR) you might have almost managed to get away with your little forwards backwards trick, but I found it all out. In case anyone couldn't follow me this far, here's my conclusion!
RemarK is actually the collective eclypsia management obsessed with topping their last year's feat by doing some of their trademark PR work for their new captain (Daisuki) of the NEW FORMED eclypsia. Also they might have Nitrix as a headsponsor! I'm kind of disappointed no one else has figured that out by now honestly.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
even MORE evidence. well doesn't anyone who didn't believe me initially feel stupid now!
I want some of whatever you were smoking when you wrote that post. O_____o
Dude it was even released 51 days ahead of time. Ever heard of Area 51? Cosmo (Kramer), Eclypsia (solar eclipse)? They even gave you a trinity of unifying references in addition to all the numerical proof. I can't wait until you all get bombed and accept Daisuki back on April 1!
They sort of learned from their mistake last time guys, it was too much direct drama. This time it's drama with a blast from the past (when it actually hits), shrouded in clouds of mystical numerology.
On February 10 2013 02:30 Msr wrote: I thought it was pretty obvious he hacked from his play style, surprised it took people this long for people to figure it out
You can call someone hacker all day long but it is just smoke without fire if you have nothing to back it up. And this time OP did splendid job with researching him.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case.
I think he should be banned (for a short amount of time, few month I guess) because every hacker should pay the price for it (not talking about the $ of the software :D), but indeed he lost respect.
Sorry bro, no redemption for hackers. I don't buy the "I'm not cheating on my own, I'm just forced to " act, and even if I did, the community doesn't need weak-minded and unscrupulous people like you. Farewell, and good luck in your future endeavors.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case.
Why does it matter if he was pressured or not? Every pro in a team has some kind of pressure to show better results, even if it's indirect pressure, because no team wants a guy who wins nothing. In the end everyone wants to be better and if you choose unfair path then it's your choice.
On February 10 2013 03:13 Zeevo wrote: should be temporarily banned, and that's pretty much it. No need to exile the guy for life, as long as he does not do it again.
When people do something, they can do it again. Most progamers wouldn't even think of hacking to play the game their livelihood rides on. We don't need people who do think about that.
On February 10 2013 03:13 Zeevo wrote: should be temporarily banned, and that's pretty much it. No need to exile the guy for life, as long as he does not do it again.
When people do something, they can do it again. Most progamers wouldn't even think of hacking to play the game their livelihood rides on. We don't need people who do think about that.
What about ex-hackers / cheaters such as TTOne / lastshadow? Should we forgive them or ban them from all tournaments? I think some people deserve forgiveness for their wrongs.
You're not a competitor, you're a cheater; I'm sorry dude but you will never, and I mean NEVER reach the top in starcraft or any other game for that matter because your mindset is flawed from the get-go.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case.
SO this is it then? Every time someone hacks they blame outside factors, oh no it was the sponsors, no it was my parents, no it was my friends. No one hacks out of free will, there is always something behind the decision, may it be fatigue, that they aren't able to perform good enough or that they only need one more win to make that magical placement. The circumstances doesn't matter, if you can't make it without cheating and you risk losing your sponsors then you aren't good enough and you are cheating other people that are good enough without cheating and scheming.
I was speculative once i started reading but after going through that all I have to say is...dam maphackers Get with the game we play to learn not to cheat. time to form an angry mob.
On February 09 2013 11:34 SoOJuuu wrote: People seem to care about ladder because everytime they lose on ladder it "must be a hacker" exiling a hacker is what makes them happy.
Newsflash, ladder doesnt matter, if you think it does, well then continue on.
Except nearly every pro player except maybe a handful of Koreans use ladder as their main form of practice; stop trying to sound elitist and condescending for the sake of it.
they do? Most of them use it for stream revenue. Real practice happens within the team.
you not ever read any interviews do you ? sseing people like scarlett say they train 100% ladder ... but you must be pro and know it better then the pros
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
CatZ, I would like to commend you on your amazing post here. I laughed out loud at the part "nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope" follow up by "ONLY God can judge people such as this." But clearly satire is not something the community does well with. But you improved my day.
Also, all cheaters get banned, end of story. If it is good enough for the Tour De France and the Olympics, its good enough for SC2. If don't want to get banned from events, don't install hacks on your PC or let other people use your account.
Not end of story. Multiple hackers have been forgiven sooooo...?
It's easy for you to say that when it's been five years after the fact (assuming you're referring to guys like TT1), but in reality it took time to get back to a respectable status.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
CatZ, I would like to commend you on your amazing post here. I laughed out loud at the part "nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope" follow up by "ONLY God can judge people such as this." But clearly satire is not something the community does well with. But you improved my day.
Also, all cheaters get banned, end of story. If it is good enough for the Tour De France and the Olympics, its good enough for SC2. If don't want to get banned from events, don't install hacks on your PC or let other people use your account.
Not end of story. Multiple hackers have been forgiven sooooo...?
It's easy for you to say that when it's been five years after the fact, but in reality it took time to get back to a respectable status.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
CatZ, I would like to commend you on your amazing post here. I laughed out loud at the part "nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope" follow up by "ONLY God can judge people such as this." But clearly satire is not something the community does well with. But you improved my day.
Also, all cheaters get banned, end of story. If it is good enough for the Tour De France and the Olympics, its good enough for SC2. If don't want to get banned from events, don't install hacks on your PC or let other people use your account.
Not end of story. Multiple hackers have been forgiven sooooo...?
It's easy for you to say that when it's been five years after the fact, but in reality it took time to get back to a respectable status.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Although a seed of doubt has been planted and people will never suspect you to be a legitimate player again, if it could be proven you never cheated/hacked during tournaments, I personally find that online/ladder is completely separate (as it should be) from tournament play.
I strongly believe that during your personal time laddering if you chose to cheat/hack, so be it, it just makes you look bad. If you want to compete in tournaments, as long as you have not cheated and this can be proven undoubtedly, I have no reason to believe you can't compete. They are two parallel arena's.
I'd also like to mention the fact people keep calling ladder "training ground for pro's" No, it's not, the "pro's" (not GM high masters) train with their teammates, laddering is for streaming. If you wanted some quality practice you would be playing another pro and not some guy in the ladder queue. Sure they might log in and play on ladder just to play other people, but the real practice would come from serious practice with a teammate, especially against particular builds.
On February 09 2013 15:27 ROOTCatZ wrote: OP IS TRYING TO RUIN A PLAYER'S REPUTATION! There is CLEARLY not enough evidence, and it ISNT conclusive, because if you take ONE of those incidents and isolate them, it ISNT enough, so if you multiply it by 1000 like OP did, it COULD just mean that Daisuki is -REALLY- lucky / unlucky. Probabilities do not play a role when you're about to ruin a player's career, you are only 99.9999999999999999999% sure that Daisuki hacks and in the 0.00000000000000000001 offchance that he doesn't you just ruined his career for nothing, how does that make you feel? how do you even SLEEP at night, Hackers of the sc2 community should be protected and shielded from people like RemarK.
There was NOT enough evidence, and you are NOT god, nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope, which means you are NO ONE to judge people like daisuki, ONLY God can judge people such as this. You are disgusting, RemarK, you put countless hours of work into helping clean the community, but you're honestly DISGUSTING, you should've send this to the high council of sc2 and without Dustin Browder or David Kim's approval, you should not be outing players who make a living from playing this game, they don't damage ANYONE except for all of the other players who make a living playing this game, and that is a REALLY small percentage of players anyways, I don't know about you, but I have lived in The United States of America, Land of the Free, where everyone is Innocent until proven guilty, and I cannot stand for this sort of behavior. IMAGINE if you were Daisuki and YOU didn't hack... what would you do then? BESIDES, even if its the same account and they have the exact same hotkeys + apm, THERE IS ALWAYS a chance that Daisuki was sharing his account, or that someone stole his accounts and copied his playstyle, APM and Hotkeys in order to frame him, Tell me right now that this probability is mathematically impossible because I have science to argue on my side, and God to protect me from Demons like yourself, RemarK.
in case you're really slow, this is all sarcasm, great job RemarK, fuck hackers, there are FAR too many of them and they completely screw the game for everyone else, Daisuki: can't say im dissapointed, I am however disgusted. bl, dhf at whatever you chose to do post exile, GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS!.
CatZ, I would like to commend you on your amazing post here. I laughed out loud at the part "nor are you Barack Obama or the Pope" follow up by "ONLY God can judge people such as this." But clearly satire is not something the community does well with. But you improved my day.
Also, all cheaters get banned, end of story. If it is good enough for the Tour De France and the Olympics, its good enough for SC2. If don't want to get banned from events, don't install hacks on your PC or let other people use your account.
Not end of story. Multiple hackers have been forgiven sooooo...?
It's easy for you to say that when it's been five years after the fact, but in reality it took time to get back to a respectable status.
On February 10 2013 03:13 Zeevo wrote: should be temporarily banned, and that's pretty much it. No need to exile the guy for life, as long as he does not do it again.
When people do something, they can do it again. Most progamers wouldn't even think of hacking to play the game their livelihood rides on. We don't need people who do think about that.
What about ex-hackers / cheaters such as TTOne / lastshadow? Should we forgive them or ban them from all tournaments? I think some people deserve forgiveness for their wrongs.
dunno if last shadow changed , but ttone was pretty young when he cheated same for dimaga , in comparison to this NA zerg player that is old and well aware of what he is doing and how his actions can influence him .
On February 10 2013 03:13 Zeevo wrote: should be temporarily banned, and that's pretty much it. No need to exile the guy for life, as long as he does not do it again.
When people do something, they can do it again. Most progamers wouldn't even think of hacking to play the game their livelihood rides on. We don't need people who do think about that.
What about ex-hackers / cheaters such as TTOne / lastshadow? Should we forgive them or ban them from all tournaments? I think some people deserve forgiveness for their wrongs.
dunno if last shadow changed , but ttone was pretty young when he cheated same for dimaga , in comparison to this NA zerg player that is old and well aware of what he is doing and how his actions can influence him .
In my opinion:
Rules should be for everyone, you can't just cheat and get away with it just because you were young: you have to take responsability for your actions.
I must say I am exhausted after reading yet another "apology" that includes blame-shifting. How can the community even attempt to forgive someone if they do not take FULL responsibility for their actions? I know that someone from Blizzard stated "appropriate actions were taken", does anyone know what those actions were? I'll trust the staff at TL for a sound judgment on this case.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case.
SO this is it then? Every time someone hacks they blame outside factors, oh no it was the sponsors, no it was my parents, no it was my friends. No one hacks out of free will, there is always something behind the decision, may it be fatigue, that they aren't able to perform good enough or that they only need one more win to make that magical placement. The circumstances doesn't matter, if you can't make it without cheating and you risk losing your sponsors then you aren't good enough and you are cheating other people that are good enough without cheating and scheming.
Perhaps I didn't properly communicate how high the extremely high level of proof, and even subtle suggestions if not outright of using illegitimate means would have to be, and I assume Glon had somewhat of a similar view. And this hypothetical I imagine would be very very rarely be met. I am curious as to why Daisuki thinks it wasn't his decision though.
"Hello ,My name is Peter Yoo, otherwise known as NITRIXdSuki or daisuki on the NA ladder. I have been a top 16 Grandmaster Zerg for the majority of the seasons. Recently there were some speculation regarding all the NITRIX accounts on NA ladder. I am NITRIX." http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342629 This is just more on the IDs. I think there is little to no doubt that he is mapphacking. I want to see what he has to say, be4, i am 100% sure, but there isnt much he can say
On February 10 2013 04:13 Ldawg wrote: I must say I am exhausted after reading yet another "apology" that includes blame-shifting. How can the community even attempt to forgive someone if they do not take FULL responsibility for their actions? I know that someone from Blizzard stated "appropriate actions were taken", does anyone know what those actions were? I'll trust the staff at TL for a sound judgment on this case.
There are only a few individuals that thinks its okay, the rest knows what will happen to this community, the quality of the ladder games regarding amount of cheating and the overall integrity of SCII as an E-sport if we were to deem this as "okay" in any way.
I wonder if nitrix's philospophy is "bad publicity is better then no publicity." Hell, before this thread i didn't even know Nitrix existed, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Well, that backfired for me, and hopefully for others. I will never ever buy a Nitrix product, no matter how good they are. I will not support a company that fucks over Esports intentionally. Can Daisuki be forgiven? Perhaps, with lots of time (6+ months, hacking accounts permanently suspended). But this shouldn't just get swept under the rug like its okay.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case.
SO this is it then? Every time someone hacks they blame outside factors, oh no it was the sponsors, no it was my parents, no it was my friends. No one hacks out of free will, there is always something behind the decision, may it be fatigue, that they aren't able to perform good enough or that they only need one more win to make that magical placement. The circumstances doesn't matter, if you can't make it without cheating and you risk losing your sponsors then you aren't good enough and you are cheating other people that are good enough without cheating and scheming.
Perhaps I didn't properly communicate how high the extremely high level of proof, and even subtle suggestions if not outright of using illegitimate means would have to be, and I assume Glon had somewhat of a similar view. And this hypothetical I imagine would be very very rarely be met. I am curious as to why Daisuki thinks it wasn't his decision though.
It's called an excuse, which I tried to demonstrate in the post you quoted, it's never their fault and they always direct the blame unto something else.
My favorite line was "I spread the word to a group of GM players that if they hit a NITRIXeDRINK account on ladder, they should do unorthodox builds or cheeses so that we can see his reactions."
I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
So this implies that your sponsors made you do it, or your incentives was based on your ladder rank? If so this is almost as bad a reflection on NITRIX as on daisuki.
This is pure speculation of course: He was offered X incentive to get the account NITRIXeDRINK to number 1 on ladder and realized he couldn't do it any more.
On February 10 2013 05:07 Xiphos wrote: I'd say give this guy the Ma Jae Yoon treatment.
You never know man, sometimes people can change, look at DIMAGA, HayprO etc. The fact that he is quick to shift the blame to some unspecified third party (without confirming or debunking the speculation as regards his sponsors) yet doesn't bring any explicit evidence as to why he was "forced" and how it "wasn't his decision"... yeah pretty bad / fishy attitude.
But lol I would rather you didn't mention Ma Bonjwa in the same sentence as this guy, it's not like Daisuki ever won any starleagues or major tournaments at all.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
seriously hes claiming the sponsors made him do it? that's ridiculous. realistically they probably offered him incentives for having high ranking accounts. He most likely chose to do it himself. and even if he didn't he still could have just turned down his sponsorship and backed out. can you imagine a professional athletes saying "my sponsor made me take steroids"
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
You're making yourself look bad. I recommend you stop posting.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
The only thing you're sorry for is getting caught. You're blaming your old age (you're only 23) for not having a chance of succeeding, but apparently you can't make your own decision in cheating? YOU decided to cheat because YOU thought that this was a "worthwhile venture", whatever the hell that means.
And no, you did not learn it the hard way. The hard way would be completely banning you from the community (including your stream) and any future events for at least a year or two, which really is what should be done. Letting hackers continue on as if nothing had happened after a light slap on the wrist will further encourage people to use hacks.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
Stephano was suspended for making inappropriate comments that can be misunderstood, said misunderstanding being potentially damaging to both his career and EG as an organization. This is because people read "abuse" and ASSUMED it was sexual abuse, even though Stephano never made any other implicit or explicit remarks that would reveal that to be the case. I'm pretty sure if he did sexually abuse a minor the consequences would've been significantly more severe. But that wasn't actually the case, it was just the drama-hungry community of hyperactive kiddies who only read what they WANT to read, not what is actually written, that believed and propagated this lie.
I never said anything about him being arrested.
In fact I don't even know what your argument is, Stephano never cheated on ladder or otherwise, why you would compare him to Daisuki in the first place is pretty dumb on all levels.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
Also, being successfull in a video game doesn't mean that you do whatever you want in real life.
Again, that in and of itself does not actually mean that he did that. It might have been a joke, it might have been some other form of abuse, the bottom line is that if he actually raped a kiddie he would've faced serious charges. Instead he got laid off for a month for an inappropriate comment. That's all.
And I'm not saying he can do whatever he wants in real life, I'm saying comparing a ladder cheater to one of the very top personalities and most prolific professional players in SC2 is absurd.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
Wow, you are really dumb. Stephano getting ARRESTED wasn't a big deal, it was just staying the night in a cell to sleep it off. Not an uncommon occurrence and not one people should really hold against him.
Making pedophilia jokes is also not the same as cheating.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
You're making yourself look bad. I recommend you stop posting.
Yea I guess posting my opinion and pointing out the bias of this community is really bad. Typical.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
You're making yourself look bad. I recommend you stop posting.
Yea I guess posting my opinion and pointing out the bias of this community is really bad. Typical.
Hard facts that disregard your personal assumptions and implications = bias?
ROFL GG I am done here. Learn to argue or stop trolling.
On February 10 2013 05:07 Xiphos wrote: I'd say give this guy the Ma Jae Yoon treatment.
You never know man, sometimes people can change, look at DIMAGA, HayprO etc. The fact that he is quick to shift the blame to some unspecified third party (without confirming or debunking the speculation as regards his sponsors) yet doesn't bring any explicit evidence as to why he was "forced" and how it "wasn't his decision"... yeah pretty bad / fishy attitude.
But lol I would rather you didn't mention Ma Bonjwa in the same sentence as this guy, it's not like Daisuki ever won any starleagues or major tournaments at all.
Just to clarify, I'm fairly certain HayprO never cheated, he got caught with a program on during a match, but wasn't using it to cheat. If I'm wrong someone feel free to correct me, I don't quite remember exactly what happened.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
These arguments don't belong in this thread , this is about map hacking not actions taken outside sc2
On February 10 2013 05:07 Xiphos wrote: I'd say give this guy the Ma Jae Yoon treatment.
You never know man, sometimes people can change, look at DIMAGA, HayprO etc. The fact that he is quick to shift the blame to some unspecified third party (without confirming or debunking the speculation as regards his sponsors) yet doesn't bring any explicit evidence as to why he was "forced" and how it "wasn't his decision"... yeah pretty bad / fishy attitude.
But lol I would rather you didn't mention Ma Bonjwa in the same sentence as this guy, it's not like Daisuki ever won any starleagues or major tournaments at all.
Just to clarify, I'm fairly certain HayprO never cheated, he got caught with a program on during a match, but wasn't using it to cheat. If I'm wrong someone feel free to correct me, I don't quite remember exactly what happened.
Ah my bad, I don't remember the specific details of that particular instance.
Even then there's other examples of players that did less than honourable deeds in BW only to return and find moderate success in SC2 (see: Pomi, fraer, TT1)
Has he said why he did it yet? Would like to know his secret reason that the sponsors gave him for doing this in the first place. If there even is one that is...
On February 10 2013 05:30 Integra wrote: Has he said why he did it yet? Would like to know his secret reason that the sponsors gave him for doing this in the first place. If there even is one that is...
Well what makes the whole thing shady and weird is that he has implied that someone forced him to do it, but never went beyond that explaining who it was (sponsors or otherwise) nor provided any proof of being "forced".
On February 10 2013 05:07 Xiphos wrote: I'd say give this guy the Ma Jae Yoon treatment.
You never know man, sometimes people can change, look at DIMAGA, HayprO etc. The fact that he is quick to shift the blame to some unspecified third party (without confirming or debunking the speculation as regards his sponsors) yet doesn't bring any explicit evidence as to why he was "forced" and how it "wasn't his decision"... yeah pretty bad / fishy attitude.
But lol I would rather you didn't mention Ma Bonjwa in the same sentence as this guy, it's not like Daisuki ever won any starleagues or major tournaments at all.
Just to clarify, I'm fairly certain HayprO never cheated, he got caught with a program on during a match, but wasn't using it to cheat. If I'm wrong someone feel free to correct me, I don't quite remember exactly what happened.
You're wrong. He was playing against Strelok in some tournament. They started the game and Haypro had to restart for "sound issues". It was later found that he hacked from Broodwar Chart (iirc). Someone tried to use the excuse that he used it for training or something... But, in the end he restarted after the game had already started so 100% knew it was on.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
Stephano was suspended for making inappropriate comments that can be misunderstood, said misunderstanding being potentially damaging to both his career and EG as an organization. This is because people read "abuse" and ASSUMED it was sexual abuse, even though Stephano never made any other implicit or explicit remarks that would reveal that to be the case. I'm pretty sure if he did sexually abuse a minor the consequences would've been significantly more severe. But that wasn't actually the case, it was just the drama-hungry community of hyperactive kiddies who only read what they WANT to read, not what is actually written, that believed and propagated this lie.
I never said anything about him being arrested.
In fact I don't even know what your argument is, Stephano never cheated on ladder or otherwise, why you would compare him to Daisuki in the first place is pretty dumb on all levels.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
Also, being successfull in a video game doesn't mean that you do whatever you want in real life.
Again, that in and of itself does not actually mean that he did that. It might have been a joke, it might have been some other form of abuse, the bottom line is that if he actually raped a kiddie he would've faced serious charges. Instead he got laid off for a month for an inappropriate comment. That's all.
And I'm not saying he can do whatever he wants in real life, I'm saying comparing a ladder cheater to one of the very top personalities and most prolific professional players in SC2 is absurd.
Your right it is absurd. Tasteless jokes and arrests should be condemned FAR more harshly than a guy no one knew(a shame considering he was the second best player in US) maphacking on a couple of smurf accounts. Oh well.
Your "personality" and accomplishments are not an excuse to make those tasteless jokes and commit at least some kind of crime.
On February 10 2013 05:29 tassblaster wrote: wingblade keep digging that hole
Daisuki got owned by karma he constantly trash talked on ladder now look ELohEL..
I will gladly dig farther as long as criminals are valued this much more than a guy maphacking on some secondary accounts.
All I'm saying is that the pitchfork is only being brought down upon certain people who aren't as popular. And for lesser offenses.
Obviously, Daisuki screwed up majorly, and he shouldn't be indirectly blaming others without evidence.
But if you honestly think getting arrested and making those kinds of comments are not as bad as a player maphacking on a couple of smurfs on ladder, then you need a reality check.
You've gotta be kidding me, he's 23 and complaining about being old? He just sabotaged any level of respect he might have earned by admitting to hacking on ladder, and there isn't much left to get after you get caught this badly. Glad he learned his lesson, now time to learn how to man up a bit.
Actually, that's almost as bad as Destiny trying to shift blame away from his racial slurs towards the MW2 community for its campaign containing a questionable scene. Why can't these kids just own up to their own mistakes instead of making half-hearted excuses every time?
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
Stephano was suspended for making inappropriate comments that can be misunderstood, said misunderstanding being potentially damaging to both his career and EG as an organization. This is because people read "abuse" and ASSUMED it was sexual abuse, even though Stephano never made any other implicit or explicit remarks that would reveal that to be the case. I'm pretty sure if he did sexually abuse a minor the consequences would've been significantly more severe. But that wasn't actually the case, it was just the drama-hungry community of hyperactive kiddies who only read what they WANT to read, not what is actually written, that believed and propagated this lie.
I never said anything about him being arrested.
In fact I don't even know what your argument is, Stephano never cheated on ladder or otherwise, why you would compare him to Daisuki in the first place is pretty dumb on all levels.
On February 10 2013 05:22 MaxQT wrote:
On February 10 2013 05:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
Also, being successfull in a video game doesn't mean that you do whatever you want in real life.
Again, that in and of itself does not actually mean that he did that. It might have been a joke, it might have been some other form of abuse, the bottom line is that if he actually raped a kiddie he would've faced serious charges. Instead he got laid off for a month for an inappropriate comment. That's all.
And I'm not saying he can do whatever he wants in real life, I'm saying comparing a ladder cheater to one of the very top personalities and most prolific professional players in SC2 is absurd.
Your right it is absurd. Tasteless jokes and arrests should be condemned FAR more harshly than a guy no one knew(a shame considering he was the second best player in US) maphacking on a couple of smurf accounts. Oh well.
Your "personality" and accomplishments are not an excuse to make those tasteless jokes and commit at least some kind of crime.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
Stephano was suspended for making inappropriate comments that can be misunderstood, said misunderstanding being potentially damaging to both his career and EG as an organization. This is because people read "abuse" and ASSUMED it was sexual abuse, even though Stephano never made any other implicit or explicit remarks that would reveal that to be the case. I'm pretty sure if he did sexually abuse a minor the consequences would've been significantly more severe. But that wasn't actually the case, it was just the drama-hungry community of hyperactive kiddies who only read what they WANT to read, not what is actually written, that believed and propagated this lie.
I never said anything about him being arrested.
In fact I don't even know what your argument is, Stephano never cheated on ladder or otherwise, why you would compare him to Daisuki in the first place is pretty dumb on all levels.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
Also, being successfull in a video game doesn't mean that you do whatever you want in real life.
Again, that in and of itself does not actually mean that he did that. It might have been a joke, it might have been some other form of abuse, the bottom line is that if he actually raped a kiddie he would've faced serious charges. Instead he got laid off for a month for an inappropriate comment. That's all.
And I'm not saying he can do whatever he wants in real life, I'm saying comparing a ladder cheater to one of the very top personalities and most prolific professional players in SC2 is absurd.
And that contradicts what Wingblade said because...?
The guy said Stephano made Pedophilia comments and you said it's nonsense. But there you have a pedophilia comment. The guy didn't rape anyone, but he said it as per the original statement.
It still baffles me why a player of his skill lvl, who did well in offline events would do something like that. Makes absolutely no sense to me. Ruins all the work he put into his own progress. Would love to see what he has to say, though.
The fact that he wants to continue playing in upcoming tournaments is a joke. You can't just shit on the competitive nature of the game and expect to just go "oops my bad" when you get caught. You haven't learned anything the hard way yet, but I hope you do, and I hope when you're banned from tournaments you remember: you did it all to yourself. Pathetic
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
Stephano was suspended for making inappropriate comments that can be misunderstood, said misunderstanding being potentially damaging to both his career and EG as an organization. This is because people read "abuse" and ASSUMED it was sexual abuse, even though Stephano never made any other implicit or explicit remarks that would reveal that to be the case. I'm pretty sure if he did sexually abuse a minor the consequences would've been significantly more severe. But that wasn't actually the case, it was just the drama-hungry community of hyperactive kiddies who only read what they WANT to read, not what is actually written, that believed and propagated this lie.
I never said anything about him being arrested.
In fact I don't even know what your argument is, Stephano never cheated on ladder or otherwise, why you would compare him to Daisuki in the first place is pretty dumb on all levels.
On February 10 2013 05:22 MaxQT wrote:
On February 10 2013 05:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
Also, being successfull in a video game doesn't mean that you do whatever you want in real life.
Again, that in and of itself does not actually mean that he did that. It might have been a joke, it might have been some other form of abuse, the bottom line is that if he actually raped a kiddie he would've faced serious charges. Instead he got laid off for a month for an inappropriate comment. That's all.
And I'm not saying he can do whatever he wants in real life, I'm saying comparing a ladder cheater to one of the very top personalities and most prolific professional players in SC2 is absurd.
And that contradicts what Wingblade said because...?
The guy said Stephano made Pedophilia comments and you said it's nonsense. But there you have a pedophilia comment. The guy didn't rape anyone, but he said it as per the original statement.
He said he abused a 14 year old. Not *Sexually abused*. Could've been a beating, verbal abuse or any other kind of abuse. The fact that people take an ambiguous statement coming from someone whose English isn't his first language and arbitrarily attribute it to a context says more about them than it does about Stephano tbh.
On February 10 2013 05:29 tassblaster wrote: wingblade keep digging that hole
Daisuki got owned by karma he constantly trash talked on ladder now look ELohEL..
I will gladly dig farther as long as criminals are valued this much more than a guy maphacking on some secondary accounts.
All I'm saying is that the pitchfork is only being brought down upon certain people who aren't as popular. And for lesser offenses.
Obviously, Daisuki screwed up majorly, and he shouldn't be indirectly blaming others without evidence.
But if you honestly think getting arrested and making those kinds of comments are not as bad as a player maphacking on a couple of smurfs on ladder, then you need a reality check.
Ya I think so!
stephanos personal life doesn't effect me when I play sc2.
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
So if Stephano didn't say anything like that why did EG suspend him for one month? Obviously they begged to differ.
And apparently winning a bunch of tournaments excuses Stephano for getting arrested??? I guess Daisuki should be instantly forgiven since he proved himself to be the second best player in USA then right?
Stephano was suspended for making inappropriate comments that can be misunderstood, said misunderstanding being potentially damaging to both his career and EG as an organization. This is because people read "abuse" and ASSUMED it was sexual abuse, even though Stephano never made any other implicit or explicit remarks that would reveal that to be the case. I'm pretty sure if he did sexually abuse a minor the consequences would've been significantly more severe. But that wasn't actually the case, it was just the drama-hungry community of hyperactive kiddies who only read what they WANT to read, not what is actually written, that believed and propagated this lie.
I never said anything about him being arrested.
In fact I don't even know what your argument is, Stephano never cheated on ladder or otherwise, why you would compare him to Daisuki in the first place is pretty dumb on all levels.
On February 10 2013 05:22 MaxQT wrote:
On February 10 2013 05:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Stop spewing ignorant bullshit. Stephano never explicitly or implicitly mentioned anything to do with pedophilia. And you conveniently forget that Stephano won a ton of tournaments both online and offline against the best players in the world, that includes european foreigners and koreans too.
"Selective bias for the win" right back at you bro.
Also, being successfull in a video game doesn't mean that you do whatever you want in real life.
Again, that in and of itself does not actually mean that he did that. It might have been a joke, it might have been some other form of abuse, the bottom line is that if he actually raped a kiddie he would've faced serious charges. Instead he got laid off for a month for an inappropriate comment. That's all.
And I'm not saying he can do whatever he wants in real life, I'm saying comparing a ladder cheater to one of the very top personalities and most prolific professional players in SC2 is absurd.
And that contradicts what Wingblade said because...?
The guy said Stephano made Pedophilia comments and you said it's nonsense. But there you have a pedophilia comment. The guy didn't rape anyone, but he said it as per the original statement.
Stephano's comment had nothing to do with pedophilia. If I beat ST.Life I will also say that I raped a 14 year old. Also, it has nothing to do with the topic, right?
On February 10 2013 04:56 Wingblade wrote: I'm impressed anyone even knew he was the USA runner-up considering how much people love their pitchforks. Unless of course it's real legal trouble instead of map hacking on a couple of smurfs.
Stephano gets arrested, makes pedophilia comments on his stream = most popular foreigner.
Daisuki map hacks on a couple of smurf accounts = OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE
Selective bias for the win.
Seriously man, I don't understand your logic. Stephano being arrested is his private thing, it has nothing to do with sc2 and the community, the same goes with his pedophilia comments. It is just that the comments appeared on the stream, and EG reacted only because that whole thing put the organisation in the bad side not the game or community in any way. Daisuki however, is hacking while playing the game so he is destroying fun of playing the game and wasting other's players time.
sooooo... he doesnt deny it, and its pretty damn obvious that he does cheat. what now? he fades away from the scene and we all move on till the next cheater gets exposed. see you all in 3 weeks.
I suppose I should have expected to turn this into a flame war. My bad T_T.
As for the original issue about Daisuki maphacking, I definitely don't agree with what he did. Ban the accounts he hacked on, and hope his sponsor drops him. If the sponsor really was behind it, then they too should catch a ton of flax as well, but seriously, I've never even heard of Nitrix.
I think he should be able to regain community trust, EVENTUALLY.
To play devils advocate, SC2 NA ladder is by and large a huge joke and he clearly didnt cheat in any meaningful games. Should he be held to the same standards as those who cheated in tournament games or games for money, like Spades and DeathAngel recently?
They should all be treated in the worst way possible, with permanent bans for the rest of their lives from all tournaments.
There should be no forgiveness, ever. These people are not remorseful. They dehumanize everyone who isn't them, much like he explains "i thought it was just ladder," and are only sorry because they got caught.
It disgusts me that people on teamliquid are always so easy on them and willing to forgive, just giving them a pass on all the legitimate gamers they screwed over. And like I said, they seem to think they'll change. No, they don't change, they just stop hacking until they can get away with it again or get desperate, or just find better ways to hide their tracks.
On February 10 2013 06:40 JustTray wrote: Once a hacker always a hacker.
They should all be treated in the worst way possible, with permanent bans for the rest of their lives from all tournaments.
There should be no forgiveness, ever. These people are not remorseful. They dehumanize everyone who isn't them, much like he explains "i thought it was just ladder," and are only sorry because they got caught.
It disgusts me that people on teamliquid are always so easy on them and willing to forgive, just giving them a pass on all the legitimate gamers they screwed over. And like I said, they seem to think they'll change. No, they don't change, they just stop hacking until they can get away with it again or get desperate, or just find better ways to hide their tracks.
So should we also ban all people who pull friend's controllers from the console to win a round from video games?
Where do you draw the line with banning for life when bad sportsmanship occurs? Many would agree that ladder means fuck all and this shouldn't influence someone's entire career.
On February 10 2013 06:40 JustTray wrote: Once a hacker always a hacker.
They should all be treated in the worst way possible, with permanent bans for the rest of their lives from all tournaments.
There should be no forgiveness, ever. These people are not remorseful. They dehumanize everyone who isn't them, much like he explains "i thought it was just ladder," and are only sorry because they got caught.
It disgusts me that people on teamliquid are always so easy on them and willing to forgive, just giving them a pass on all the legitimate gamers they screwed over. And like I said, they seem to think they'll change. No, they don't change, they just stop hacking until they can get away with it again or get desperate, or just find better ways to hide their tracks.
So should we also ban all people who pull friend's controllers from the console to win a round from video games?
Where do you draw the line with banning for life when bad sportsmanship occurs? Many would agree that ladder means fuck all and this shouldn't influence someone's entire career.
It doesn't matter if it was ladder or a professional tournament, hacking ruins the integrity of the game. He robbed those players on ladder of fair games and good practice. When he decided to hack he forfeited his right to just come back. This isnt just bad sportsmanship this is cheating, and we shouldn't pat him on the back saying "there there it was just ladder." He needs to be shunned by the community for a while before I'll forgive him, its a fucking joke if we just forgive him because "he never hacked in tournament games." He took games off legitimate players by cheating, let me say again, cheating. Let him reflect on it a while.
He said he abused a 14 year old. Not *Sexually abused*. Could've been a beating, verbal abuse or any other kind of abuse. The fact that people take an ambiguous statement coming from someone whose English isn't his first language and arbitrarily attribute it to a context says more about them than it does about Stephano tbh.
I have no idea why I'm intervening in a discussion so trifle, but your point is completely invalid.
1) "abuser de" means exactly what you think it does in French 2) Why would he message Bling to tell him he wrung ten dollars out of a ten years-old through elaborate social engineering or punched a kid in the face ? 3) In case it wasn't clear enough, you have the "milf" allusion later
On February 10 2013 06:40 JustTray wrote: Once a hacker always a hacker.
They should all be treated in the worst way possible, with permanent bans for the rest of their lives from all tournaments.
There should be no forgiveness, ever. These people are not remorseful. They dehumanize everyone who isn't them, much like he explains "i thought it was just ladder," and are only sorry because they got caught.
It disgusts me that people on teamliquid are always so easy on them and willing to forgive, just giving them a pass on all the legitimate gamers they screwed over. And like I said, they seem to think they'll change. No, they don't change, they just stop hacking until they can get away with it again or get desperate, or just find better ways to hide their tracks.
So should we also ban all people who pull friend's controllers from the console to win a round from video games?
Where do you draw the line with banning for life when bad sportsmanship occurs? Many would agree that ladder means fuck all and this shouldn't influence someone's entire career.
It doesn't matter if it was ladder or a professional tournament, hacking ruins the integrity of the game. He robbed those players on ladder of fair games and good practice. When he decided to hack he forfeited his right to just come back. This isnt just bad sportsmanship this is cheating, and we shouldn't pat him on the back saying "there there it was just ladder." He needs to be shunned by the community for a while before I'll forgive him, its a fucking joke if we just forgive him because "he never hacked in tournament games." He took games off legitimate players by cheating, let me say again, cheating. Let him reflect on it a while.
I agree that his actions shouldn't be forgiven so quickly or easily, but I don't agree this kind of indiscretion is worthy of lifetime ban. I was only playing devil's advocate to show how ridiculous quoted poster sounded.
There is no point to having rules if you don't enforce them.
Some people want to forgive because "its just ladder", or the "games were not important".
This logic just dismisses the fact that he wasted time from his opponents, and are holding back more talented players.
If he cheats to have 2 top 16 GM spots, then he is taking 2 spots away from #17 and 18. If being top 16 is enough to get a sponsorship, he is STEALING from those players.
Sure its not that simple, but neither is "its just ladder".
The problem is that the "games were not important" to him, neither were his opponents. The only reason he cares now is because he got caught.
He didn't even have the balls to admit what he did, instead tries to pass it off as being pressured into it. All he did was state 'no contest' to the accusations.
Tar and feather imo, make an example or more examples will follow.
On February 10 2013 06:34 SupLilSon wrote: To play devils advocate, SC2 NA ladder is by and large a huge joke and he clearly didnt cheat in any meaningful games. Should he be held to the same standards as those who cheated in tournament games or games for money, like Spades and DeathAngel recently?
well this guy is done with his sc2 career for sure :D
i dont even know how he is gonna win tournaments anyways....if he practices using maphack...
EDIT: wait...he used some kind of hack to 'auto inject'? dafuq? I thought SC 2 have no hacks at all might as well make the EGG POPPING hack from BW for infinite resource -______-
On February 10 2013 07:19 ChoDing wrote: well this guy is done with his sc2 career for sure :D
i dont even know how he is gonna win tournaments anyways....if he practices using maphack...
EDIT: wait...he used some kind of hack to 'auto inject'? dafuq? I thought SC 2 have no hacks at all might as well make the EGG POPPING hack from BW for infinite resource -______-
On February 10 2013 05:29 tassblaster wrote: wingblade keep digging that hole
Daisuki got owned by karma he constantly trash talked on ladder now look ELohEL..
I will gladly dig farther as long as criminals are valued this much more than a guy maphacking on some secondary accounts.
All I'm saying is that the pitchfork is only being brought down upon certain people who aren't as popular. And for lesser offenses.
Obviously, Daisuki screwed up majorly, and he shouldn't be indirectly blaming others without evidence.
But if you honestly think getting arrested and making those kinds of comments are not as bad as a player maphacking on a couple of smurfs on ladder, then you need a reality check.
Nah, stephano making those comments to his friend in a joking matter is ok.
Cheating as a professional player is not.
Not that hard to figure out bro. Not sure why your randomly bringing up stephano anyway, your just trying to defend somebody cheating for some reason.
I find hacking in games akin to taking performance boosting drugs in normal competitions. I'd actually say it is a good comparison. Now the punishment usually range from a few months suspension to life time ban. Personally I think that as a first offense I am ready to let him back within a year or two. Since he didn't cheat (to anyone's knowledge) in a tournament, a year would be enough. Now if he was a repeating offender like Spades was, I would agree with a life time suspension.
How could he deny it with that type of proof? His lack of confession and 'no contest' plea is the smallest concession reasonably possible. He did nothing worthy of praise.
I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
What is the correlation between Stephano's case and Daisuki? O_O
Anyways, people saying "It's just ladder" is completely retarded. This is where 99% of games are played. I agree that it would be worst if he hacked in an offline event, but hacking on ladder isn't "okay" by any means e.e
On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote: I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event.
Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol...
I find it not okay that he says 'oh it's just ladder', he stole countless wins and would have still done so for a very long time if he didn't get caught. Seeing that he even gets paid for playing, he indeed should get a lifetime ban. You can't to this until you're caught and expect to just move on fair from now on!
He hacked, there is no way around it. The evidence is very very clear. Want to know why banks in the USA and world banks keep cheating the system and fucking the people? Because no one is put into jail. No one is gonna pay for their crimes. These people are not stupid. They do a risk/reward analysis and if it makes sense, they cheat and break the law. If I had enough money to give the government bodies the money the need to bring the banks to court I would. Can you fucking believe they don't bring some of the cases to court because it is EASIER to just settle out of court? If the bankers, the CEO or people on the governing body for the bank might go to ass rape prison, their would be less crime. Daisuki did the same thing as the evil bankers. He needs to be perma-ban from all tournies and have Blizzard close/ban his accounts and stop him from buying new ones by blocking his credit card account or something.
Also if his sponsor does not drop him, they are trash and think it is ok what he did
On February 10 2013 08:53 crbox wrote: What is the correlation between Stephano's case and Daisuki? O_O
Anyways, people saying "It's just ladder" is completely retarded. This is where 99% of games are played. I agree that it would be worst if he hacked in an offline event, but hacking on ladder isn't "okay" by any means e.e
Some random dude brought up Stephano's arrestation and pedophilia jokes. And compared this to Daisuki's case regarding how the community forgive....
On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote: I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event.
Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol...
I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for.
My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different.
On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote: I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event.
Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol...
I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for.
My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different.
I understand your train of thoughts.
Like I said in my post above (addressed to you), I don't think organizations have even begun to speculate about a lifetime ban or any ban for that matter. If you read what I wrote, we're talking about a BLIZZARD BAN of ONLINE ACCOUNTS (I put those in caps so you have an easier time reading it.)
I don't think Daisuki will be banned from LANs, you can't really hack there anyways and he's still a decent player.
The only concern would be online qualifiers and tournaments, where organizers will need to look closely to his play for any suspect actions.
Also SC2 is very different from any other "sports" because if someone cheats in sports, by taking steroids, they get banned because there's no way to stop once you start... Daisuki didn't hack in a tournament, so as far as they are concerned, they have no reason to ban him. I would be very surprised if MLG banned Daisuki as he is not even that known.
On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote: I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event.
Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol...
I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for.
My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different.
I understand your train of thoughts.
Like I said in my post above (addressed to you), I don't think organizations have even begun to speculate about a lifetime ban or any ban for that matter. If you read what I wrote, we're talking about a BLIZZARD BAN of ONLINE ACCOUNTS (I put those in caps so you have an easier time reading it.)
I don't think Daisuki will be banned from LANs, you can't really hack there anyways and he's still a decent player.
The only concern would be online qualifiers and tournaments, where organizers will need to look closely to his play for any suspect actions.
Also SC2 is very different from any other "sports" because if someone cheats in sports, by taking steroids, they get banned because there's no way to stop once you start... Daisuki didn't hack in a tournament, so as far as they are concerned, they have no reason to ban him. I would be very surprised if MLG banned Daisuki as he is not even that known.
why bother with the extra hassle of organizers "looking closely at his play for suspect actions" during qualifiers and tournaments? he obviously already cheated on a regular basis so the point seems kinda moot.
On February 10 2013 06:40 JustTray wrote: Once a hacker always a hacker.
They should all be treated in the worst way possible, with permanent bans for the rest of their lives from all tournaments.
There should be no forgiveness, ever. These people are not remorseful. They dehumanize everyone who isn't them, much like he explains "i thought it was just ladder," and are only sorry because they got caught.
It disgusts me that people on teamliquid are always so easy on them and willing to forgive, just giving them a pass on all the legitimate gamers they screwed over. And like I said, they seem to think they'll change. No, they don't change, they just stop hacking until they can get away with it again or get desperate, or just find better ways to hide their tracks.
Dimaga cheated in Brood War. LastShadow also cheated in Brood War. ToD was caught twice aliasing for other player's teams in clanwars in WC3. There are probably more famous players that has hacked before in other games.
Your lifetime ban idea is bad. And you are wrong, people do change. Though he should receive punishment and maybe be banned for the duration of HotS, I disagree on a lifetime ban.
Life-time ban for non-tournament ladder hacking? Are people out of their minds? TSL2 cheaters got 12 month ban + 1 TSL ban if I recall correctly (and it was by far the harshest punishment for hacking at the time).
Daisuki deserves something like a warning and maybe to get bumped down on some invite lists for a few month at worst. If it happens again a short ban too.
On February 10 2013 10:05 hypercube wrote: Life-time ban for non-tournament ladder hacking? Are people out of their minds? TSL2 cheaters got 12 month ban + 1 TSL ban if I recall correctly (and it was by far the harshest punishment for hacking at the time).
Daisuki deserves something like a warning and maybe to get bumped down on some invite lists for a few month at worst. If it happens again a short ban too.
you are stupid
hes not 5 years old, he knew what he was doing, no one forced him to do it ban him for a year from all online and offline tournaments, delete his multiple bnet accounts and be done with it
I just found out about this thread and quickly rush in just to say "This is very sad. Great work mr. OP." even though I didn't read the actual thread other than the title. By doing this, I managed to increase my post count by 1.
On February 09 2013 11:54 Cloaken wrote: Thanks again to the OP for this information. We were able to take some solid action based off of these details.
Please always remember you can report hacks directly to hacks@blizzard.com.
Good luck out there, and always remember to "Play Nice, Play Fair."
Page 14 of this thread. Cloaken is the Community manager at Blizzard btw.
On February 10 2013 10:05 hypercube wrote: Life-time ban for non-tournament ladder hacking? Are people out of their minds? TSL2 cheaters got 12 month ban + 1 TSL ban if I recall correctly (and it was by far the harshest punishment for hacking at the time).
Daisuki deserves something like a warning and maybe to get bumped down on some invite lists for a few month at worst. If it happens again a short ban too.
you are stupid
hes not 5 years old, he knew what he was doing, no one forced him to do it ban him for a year from all online and offline tournaments, delete his multiple bnet accounts and be done with it
Hint: if you are going to argue for harsh punishments in general, make sure you follow the rules yourself (i.e, no personal attacks and use proper punctuation).
BTW, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't making excuses for him. I just think it's not a major issue. You're probably right about the bnet ban, but that's ultimately Blizzard's decision.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
No go away, you got caught cheating once already. You had your chances.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
No go away, you got caught cheating once already. You had your chances.
I agree with this. The ladder may not mean much to you but for others it means a lot. And obviously you wouldn't cheat in tournaments since it's so much easier to get caught.
Man, I used to play with Daisuki 2-3 years ago back in a clan called cso. This is really sad to hear since I never expected something like this from him.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case.
Why does it matter if he was pressured or not? Every pro in a team has some kind of pressure to show better results, even if it's indirect pressure, because no team wants a guy who wins nothing. In the end everyone wants to be better and if you choose unfair path then it's your choice.
Yes it matters if he was pressured (forced) to do so by his sponsors. Sponsors can essentially make pros do anything they want.... or the pro doesn't get any $$.
Again, all of this is hypothetical. I'm still awaiting a response from Daisuki.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case.
Why does it matter if he was pressured or not? Every pro in a team has some kind of pressure to show better results, even if it's indirect pressure, because no team wants a guy who wins nothing. In the end everyone wants to be better and if you choose unfair path then it's your choice.
Yes it matters if he was pressured (forced) to do so by his sponsors. Sponsors can essentially make pros do anything they want.... or the pro doesn't get any $$.
Again, all of this is hypothetical. I'm still awaiting a response from Daisuki.
Even though the reason doesn't matter I have to admit its the most unique excuse I've heard of so far as of why someone would cheat. If this is true that is
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker...
I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way.
Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case.
Why does it matter if he was pressured or not? Every pro in a team has some kind of pressure to show better results, even if it's indirect pressure, because no team wants a guy who wins nothing. In the end everyone wants to be better and if you choose unfair path then it's your choice.
Yes it matters if he was pressured (forced) to do so by his sponsors. Sponsors can essentially make pros do anything they want.... or the pro doesn't get any $$.
Again, all of this is hypothetical. I'm still awaiting a response from Daisuki.
I'd hope a sponsor would be intelligent enough to not "pressure" a player to cheat, because the bad publicity from it would lose them more sells than positive effect from exposure. Especially when its purely ladder rank at stake.
And the Pro still has the choice. If they have to cheat to be good enough to meet a sponsors expectations, they probably don't deserve the sponsor. It's harsh, but I believe it to be true.
I doubt a random Brazilian drink manufacturer cares that they have lost face with a small gaming community. Someone just paid him to get the name out there as an easy thing to do and I guess the money was too good to pass up.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Well, at least you posted in here. I don't find your response to the cheating accusations very reassuring though. It's pretty stupid to say that you only agreed to it, rather than making a decision. There's no difference. You made the conscious decision to cheat. Period. And you don't deny it, which means you did it (as if the evidence in the original post wasn't enough). And, quite frankly, we don't exactly know if you've never cheated in an online tournament. I'm hoping that you're done with the sport. Also... 23 isn't that old lol.
i don't believe for a second any sponsor told him to do this. its ridiculous. what would be the motiv? there is none. he's just trying to divert the blame from himself. secondly, so what if someone told him to cheat? if he said yes then he completely lacks integrity. its still his problem that he cheated.
Well, being a convicted cheater is pretty bad already, but after reading that half-assed apology attempt i've got to say that he's a delusional convicted cheater, which is even worse. People aren't stupid like in medieval times anymore, so goodbye, you've ruined your career and deserve to have it completely ended for all time.
On February 10 2013 11:24 Benjamin99 wrote: I don't understand why so many pro-gamers from US feel the need to cheat.
How is this a US-only problem? People from all over the world have cheated. In fact, plenty of people mentioned in this very thread (and in previous threads) are non-American -.-' That's a very ignorant remark to make.
judging by his twitter posts, i dont feel that he's very sorry for his actions... something like this should tarnish your reputation as a progamer, as well as a person in general.
On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote: I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event.
Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol...
I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for.
My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different.
I understand your train of thoughts.
Like I said in my post above (addressed to you), I don't think organizations have even begun to speculate about a lifetime ban or any ban for that matter. If you read what I wrote, we're talking about a BLIZZARD BAN of ONLINE ACCOUNTS (I put those in caps so you have an easier time reading it.)
I don't think Daisuki will be banned from LANs, you can't really hack there anyways and he's still a decent player.
The only concern would be online qualifiers and tournaments, where organizers will need to look closely to his play for any suspect actions.
Also SC2 is very different from any other "sports" because if someone cheats in sports, by taking steroids, they get banned because there's no way to stop once you start... Daisuki didn't hack in a tournament, so as far as they are concerned, they have no reason to ban him. I would be very surprised if MLG banned Daisuki as he is not even that known.
Well obviously his Blizzard accounts with which he has cheated should be banned. Map-hacking is clearly a violation of Blizzard's Terms of Use Agreement (Item 2.A) and therefore his account licenses should be revoked once Blizzard has reviewed the evidence. This only applies to licensed accounts with which he has been proven to have cheated, as each license carries it's own exclusive Terms of Use Agreement. If that was really all that was being discussed I don't know why we needed a 30 page thread, except for it maybe to be an echo chamber for people to talk about how disappointed they are.
However, my original post was made in response to quite a rather large number of posts thus far which have been calling for a complete ban of the professional scene. While you correctly pointed out that no tournament organizers have taken any disciplinary actions yet, that statement in and of itself is completely irrelevant. My post wasn't addressed to MLG, it was addressed to the members of this forum who were actively speculating about complete competitive bans for Daisuki. Sorry for any confusion caused on my end, but I don't think there was any need for all caps .
On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote: I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event.
Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol...
I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for.
My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different.
I understand your train of thoughts.
Like I said in my post above (addressed to you), I don't think organizations have even begun to speculate about a lifetime ban or any ban for that matter. If you read what I wrote, we're talking about a BLIZZARD BAN of ONLINE ACCOUNTS (I put those in caps so you have an easier time reading it.)
I don't think Daisuki will be banned from LANs, you can't really hack there anyways and he's still a decent player.
The only concern would be online qualifiers and tournaments, where organizers will need to look closely to his play for any suspect actions.
Also SC2 is very different from any other "sports" because if someone cheats in sports, by taking steroids, they get banned because there's no way to stop once you start... Daisuki didn't hack in a tournament, so as far as they are concerned, they have no reason to ban him. I would be very surprised if MLG banned Daisuki as he is not even that known.
Well obviously his Blizzard accounts with which he has cheated should be banned. Map-hacking is clearly a violation of Blizzard's Terms of Use Agreement (Item 2.A) and therefore his account licenses should be revoked once Blizzard has reviewed the evidence. This only applies to licensed accounts with which he has been proven to have cheated, as each license carries it's own exclusive Terms of Use Agreement. If that was really all that was being discussed I don't know why we needed a 30 page thread, except for it maybe to be an echo chamber for people to talk about how disappointed they are.
However, my original post was made in response to quite a rather large number of posts thus far which have been calling for a complete ban of the professional scene. While you correctly pointed out that no tournament organizers have taken any disciplinary actions yet, that statement in and of itself is completely irrelevant. My post wasn't addressed to MLG, it was addressed to the members of this forum who were actively speculating about complete competitive bans for Daisuki. Sorry for any confusion caused on my end, but I don't think there was any need for all caps .
i'm not sure, i think just the fact that a known maphacker is allowed to participate in their tournament tarnishes the said tournament's reputation as is... this kind of action should not be acceptable under any consequences, so the punishment for this should not be light as well.
Honestly I cannot understand some of you. Hacking is okay as long you only did it on ladder? Saying that its bad but then saying he's a decent player who should be allowed to play in offline LANs...it's shameful. His abiltiy as a player is ENTIRELY irrelevant. He cheated for personal gain. We as a community should not stand for this. You talk about professionalism, but Daisuki is showing none himself.
On February 10 2013 11:01 Dundron2000 wrote: i don't believe for a second any sponsor told him to do this. its ridiculous. what would be the motiv? there is none. he's just trying to divert the blame from himself. secondly, so what if someone told him to cheat? if he said yes then he completely lacks integrity. its still his problem that he cheated.
Motives here are obvious, more recognition for him (thus the sponsor) more people want to be tutored by him. More people want him to play with them. Basically their are many reasons to do this from a sponosr perspective. He was already a great player without them so I doubt this is on his end, that said I'm awaiting his response.
On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote: I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event.
Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol...
I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for.
My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different.
I understand your train of thoughts.
Like I said in my post above (addressed to you), I don't think organizations have even begun to speculate about a lifetime ban or any ban for that matter. If you read what I wrote, we're talking about a BLIZZARD BAN of ONLINE ACCOUNTS (I put those in caps so you have an easier time reading it.)
I don't think Daisuki will be banned from LANs, you can't really hack there anyways and he's still a decent player.
The only concern would be online qualifiers and tournaments, where organizers will need to look closely to his play for any suspect actions.
Also SC2 is very different from any other "sports" because if someone cheats in sports, by taking steroids, they get banned because there's no way to stop once you start... Daisuki didn't hack in a tournament, so as far as they are concerned, they have no reason to ban him. I would be very surprised if MLG banned Daisuki as he is not even that known.
Well obviously his Blizzard accounts with which he has cheated should be banned. Map-hacking is clearly a violation of Blizzard's Terms of Use Agreement (Item 2.A) and therefore his account licenses should be revoked once Blizzard has reviewed the evidence. This only applies to licensed accounts with which he has been proven to have cheated, as each license carries it's own exclusive Terms of Use Agreement. If that was really all that was being discussed I don't know why we needed a 30 page thread, except for it maybe to be an echo chamber for people to talk about how disappointed they are.
However, my original post was made in response to quite a rather large number of posts thus far which have been calling for a complete ban of the professional scene. While you correctly pointed out that no tournament organizers have taken any disciplinary actions yet, that statement in and of itself is completely irrelevant. My post wasn't addressed to MLG, it was addressed to the members of this forum who were actively speculating about complete competitive bans for Daisuki. Sorry for any confusion caused on my end, but I don't think there was any need for all caps .
i'm not sure, i think just the fact that a known maphacker is allowed to participate in their tournament tarnishes the said tournament's reputation as is... this kind of action should not be acceptable under any consequences, so the punishment for this should not be light as well.
I don't disagree with that sentiment. What I disagree with is the manner in which such a ban should be administered. My original post was related to the need for a body which professional players are ultimately answerable to with clearly states rules and penalties. Otherwise what you have is tournaments selectively punishing players, largely based on the level of public reaction to their actions. Also, my original posts were more specifically directed to people asking for permanent bans, which I don't think is warranted given the implications and past precedent set by issues like this.
On February 10 2013 11:01 Dundron2000 wrote: i don't believe for a second any sponsor told him to do this. its ridiculous. what would be the motiv? there is none. he's just trying to divert the blame from himself. secondly, so what if someone told him to cheat? if he said yes then he completely lacks integrity. its still his problem that he cheated.
Motives here are obvious, more recognition for him (thus the sponsor) more people want to be tutored by him. More people want him to play with them. Basically their are many reasons to do this from a sponosr perspective. He was already a great player without them so I doubt this is on his end, that said I'm awaiting his response.
no. thats a possible motive, but not a probable one. among other things cheating seriously damages your marketability and popularity. anyways, the point doesn't need to be argued because there is no evidence anyone told him to cheat. Diasuki insinuated the possibility that someone told him to. but why should we listen to him? he's a proven cheater so it's no stretch to assume he might lie if he thought it would help his case.
NITRIXdaisuki @NITRIXdaisuki Anyone know how long it took for tournament hackers to be forgiven?
He basically said he hacked during tournaments. Just permaban him from every tournament.
Agreed. - with the permaban part, I didn't see him confessing tournament cheating..
I really am baffled about some users saying that only ladder ban or only tournament, or even a temporary ban would be enough.
With so many gamers out there, trying to get in to GM, trying to qualify for a tournament, working their ass off to get better.. Why would you be soft towards a confessed cheater? Nobody forced him, he never came forward. He cheated players on ladder, players trying to get good results, training and putting effort in their builds/mechanics only to be cheated upon.
Then he got Caught. Caught, as in 'doing it till today'. The OP did great work, can't be stressed enough. He caught an live cheater, cheating while he did his research. He gathered evidence, caught the cheater, the cheater puts down an half-arsed apology and we should temporarily ban him? Why? To keep his spot in tournaments where non-cheaters are seeing their spot being given away to a non-remorseful player who cheated his fellow-community members?
Why be lenient towards a player who cheated his fans, his competition, the ladder system and his viewers. I don't get it. It was his decision to cheat, nobody forced him. And like most of us know; you made your bed Daisuki, now lie in it.
On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote: I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore.
This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event.
Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol...
I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for.
My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different.
I understand your train of thoughts.
Like I said in my post above (addressed to you), I don't think organizations have even begun to speculate about a lifetime ban or any ban for that matter. If you read what I wrote, we're talking about a BLIZZARD BAN of ONLINE ACCOUNTS (I put those in caps so you have an easier time reading it.)
I don't think Daisuki will be banned from LANs, you can't really hack there anyways and he's still a decent player.
The only concern would be online qualifiers and tournaments, where organizers will need to look closely to his play for any suspect actions.
Also SC2 is very different from any other "sports" because if someone cheats in sports, by taking steroids, they get banned because there's no way to stop once you start... Daisuki didn't hack in a tournament, so as far as they are concerned, they have no reason to ban him. I would be very surprised if MLG banned Daisuki as he is not even that known.
Well obviously his Blizzard accounts with which he has cheated should be banned. Map-hacking is clearly a violation of Blizzard's Terms of Use Agreement (Item 2.A) and therefore his account licenses should be revoked once Blizzard has reviewed the evidence. This only applies to licensed accounts with which he has been proven to have cheated, as each license carries it's own exclusive Terms of Use Agreement. If that was really all that was being discussed I don't know why we needed a 30 page thread, except for it maybe to be an echo chamber for people to talk about how disappointed they are.
However, my original post was made in response to quite a rather large number of posts thus far which have been calling for a complete ban of the professional scene. While you correctly pointed out that no tournament organizers have taken any disciplinary actions yet, that statement in and of itself is completely irrelevant. My post wasn't addressed to MLG, it was addressed to the members of this forum who were actively speculating about complete competitive bans for Daisuki. Sorry for any confusion caused on my end, but I don't think there was any need for all caps .
i'm not sure, i think just the fact that a known maphacker is allowed to participate in their tournament tarnishes the said tournament's reputation as is... this kind of action should not be acceptable under any consequences, so the punishment for this should not be light as well.
I don't disagree with that sentiment. What I disagree with is the manner in which such a ban should be administered. My original post was related to the need for a body which professional players are ultimately answerable to with clearly states rules and penalties. Otherwise what you have is tournaments selectively punishing players, largely based on the level of public reaction to their actions. Also, my original posts were more specifically directed to people asking for permanent bans, which I don't think is warranted given the implications and past precedent set by issues like this.
On February 10 2013 12:19 vesicular wrote: If the punishment for hacking was more severe, there would be less hackers.
Aye, people need to be made examples of or the message will not sink in and this bullshit will continue.
Definitely agreed. History has a way of repeating itself if nothing changes. In BW, there was absolutely 0 benefit for hacking, besides maybe you got some undeserved attention you otherwise wouldn't have gotten, yet anytime a new method for finding hackers was discovered, there was always a long list of competitive players that were caught. If SC 2 is a professional sport, why wouldn't there be at least just as many players cheating now? People that hacked in the past and were forgiven/got away with it should consider themselves lucky.
If every competitive player is given a second chance, what you're essentially saying is, every competitive player is entitled to at least 1 get out of jail free card. So, pick your spots to cheat, and if you mess up and get found out, just repent like the others, whether you mean it or not. Not everyone naturally has integrity. If you're not going to force it upon them, they're simply going to be stealing spots and money from legit players. When do you decide to draw a line? If someone cheats in the first place, they're saying they're not good enough. If they feel that way, they're probably not that great and it's really not a big loss for the community whether they become legit or not. Plus, even if a player apologizes and is forgiven, he could still hack but just not be as negligent about disguising it.
In short, the scene is too lenient. There's more to life than SC 2, so until they're banned from other things... I personally wouldn't be crying over them not having a second chance at one of many things in life.
On February 10 2013 11:58 vectorix108 wrote: Anyone see him post this back in the Spades hacking thread? That last paragraph is great LOL
Wow this is just... lol.
I wonder if all pro-hackers have some sort of secret channel or code that they abide by, in an attempt to protect one another from the community.
HAHAHAH.. oh god..
LOLLL so he has been maphacking/hacking for almost a year now? LOLLLL
LOLLLL oh god...please banish this guy from SC2 community
If his spiel about being "forced" by NITRIX is true, he got the sponsorship around May, according to this http://i.imgur.com/RyDaSYu.png in the Name Change thread.
If it isn't, then it's possible he may have felt pressured after the time he made that post about hacking being wrong.
In either cases, it's pretty bad, but the past is past and he is banned, so there's nothing left to discuss here. Regardless of his motives, he screwed up majorly, and probably aggravated his sponsor big time.
On February 10 2013 11:58 vectorix108 wrote: Anyone see him post this back in the Spades hacking thread? That last paragraph is great LOL
Wow this is just... lol.
I wonder if all pro-hackers have some sort of secret channel or code that they abide by, in an attempt to protect one another from the community.
HAHAHAH.. oh god..
LOLLL so he has been maphacking/hacking for almost a year now? LOLLLL
LOLLLL oh god...please banish this guy from SC2 community
If his spiel about being "forced" by NITRIX is true, he got the sponsorship around May, according to this http://i.imgur.com/RyDaSYu.png in the Name Change thread.
If it isn't, then it's possible he may have felt pressured after the time he made that post about hacking being wrong.
In either cases, it's pretty bad, but the past is past and he is banned, so there's nothing left to discuss here. Regardless of his motives, he screwed up majorly, and probably aggravated his sponsor big time.
I think you linked the wrong image there. (It's the image from my post)
On February 10 2013 12:19 vesicular wrote: If the punishment for hacking was more severe, there would be less hackers.
Aye, people need to be made examples of or the message will not sink in and this bullshit will continue.
Except the vast majority of hackers aren't seeking a professional career, and the amount of professionals that have hacked recently is exactly 2.
I think it's a lot more likely that there are more high ranking players that are hacking that haven't been found out, rather than we have found them all and the number is 2. How about the guy mentioned in this thread... how long has he been hacking for? Last week, would you have said "but there's only 1 hacker?" Spades was hacking in BW. He probably always hacked in SC 2, yet how long did it take to gather enough evidence against him in SC 2? Part of the reason you need such a harsh penalty is because the scene is awful at finding out hackers that are trying whatsoever to not make it blatant. Everything can come down to "I wasn't watching him play at his house, so it's inconclusive."
If you're that desperate for money/sponsorship, then go get a real job, because if you're hacking then you're clearly not playing out of love for the game. If you're taking just taking this route because it's "easy money", then you deserve no sympathy anyway when it's at the expense of the game's integrity and the legitimate players' fun.
On February 10 2013 11:58 vectorix108 wrote: Anyone see him post this back in the Spades hacking thread? That last paragraph is great LOL
LMAO last sentence from that post of his is pure gold. Check his Twitter account here, something fishy going on. He asks how long it takes for cheaters in tournaments to be forgiven, then follows up with another tweet an hour later stating he didn't cheat but was asking out of curiosity?
he cheated and admitted to it, i hope he gets banned for life. 0 tolerance to cheaters and hackers.
Also saying he did not make this decision? He used the hacks so it was his decision to cheat even if he was pressured by something else(which is bullshit) he could have said no!!
On February 10 2013 11:29 stew_ wrote: judging by his twitter posts, i dont feel that he's very sorry for his actions... something like this should tarnish your reputation as a progamer, as well as a person in general.
Yeah he doesn't seem sorry at all... Facing hackers on ladder is infuriating because you don't get good practice from someone who is blindly hard countering you. A lot of strategies work on deception. They are strategies timings... You can't harass or sneak expansions. I have 0 tolerance for hackers and I hope he faces a lot more negativity so that he actually shows some sign of remorse not, "oh yeah I hacked sorry, so when is it ok to play again?".
On February 10 2013 13:18 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Man, admitting to it takes all the fun out of a witch hunt. I had my pitchfork and torch all ready to go -_-
Sarcasm or not (there have been several other posts similar to yours), I don't understand why people are so eager to go on witch hunts and prolong this agony. I just want these things over and done with. I find these hackers and cheaters to be an embarrassment to our community, and the longer it takes to rid ourselves of these people (especially those who aren't completely anonymous), the worse we look overall.
On February 10 2013 13:18 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Man, admitting to it takes all the fun out of a witch hunt. I had my pitchfork and torch all ready to go -_-
Sarcasm or not (there have been several other posts similar to yours), I don't understand why people are so eager to go on witch hunts and prolong this agony. I just want these things over and done with. I find these hackers and cheaters to be an embarrassment to our community, and the longer it takes to rid ourselves of these people (especially those who aren't completely anonymous), the worse we look overall.
It was definitely a sarcastic post. Witch hunts are stupid and help no one.
On February 10 2013 13:18 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Man, admitting to it takes all the fun out of a witch hunt. I had my pitchfork and torch all ready to go -_-
Sarcasm or not (there have been several other posts similar to yours), I don't understand why people are so eager to go on witch hunts and prolong this agony. I just want these things over and done with. I find these hackers and cheaters to be an embarrassment to our community, and the longer it takes to rid ourselves of these people (especially those who aren't completely anonymous), the worse we look overall.
However the more we out cast them and force these known players into hiding for obvious cheating then the less will take the risk. I might be a little too aggressive when it comes to hackers o.o
I guess i want others opinion on the following statement:
Players who have maphacked within recent memory(basically permanently) should not be allowed into online tourneys on the basis that there is no way to gurantee they arent cheated. They can, however, play in offline tourneys with no bad feelings.
Basically, my opinion is that any smart player will realize maphacking is online play suicide
On February 10 2013 14:36 Bippzy wrote: I guess i want others opinion on the following statement:
Players who have maphacked within recent memory(basically permanently) should not be allowed into online tourneys on the basis that there is no way to gurantee they arent cheated. They can, however, play in offline tourneys with no bad feelings.
Basically, my opinion is that any smart player will realize maphacking is online play suicide
How is it? Anybody who maphacks and gets banned can just create a new fake name and a new account. You don't need to identify yourself to claim the prizes of any online-tournament that I know of.
On February 10 2013 14:36 Bippzy wrote: I guess i want others opinion on the following statement:
Players who have maphacked within recent memory(basically permanently) should not be allowed into online tourneys on the basis that there is no way to gurantee they arent cheated. They can, however, play in offline tourneys with no bad feelings.
Basically, my opinion is that any smart player will realize maphacking is online play suicide
Say there's a "smart player" that has been stuck in Masters forever, but he wants to be a pro gamer. He could probably realize at this rate, his only chance of playing at a "pro level" would be through cheating. That would technically be a smart choice to hack. Why? Because, whether he gets caught or not, he wasn't going to be a pro or win anything, otherwise. What difference would it make to someone if they were shunned if they would be "shunned" if they were legit, anyways?
How many offline tournaments can you really attend without qualifying via online or being invited? If you're not going to let them play online or we're skeptical of their results, are we going to start inviting them to merely give them a shot to "clear their name." In a sense, still rewarding them. While you're not afraid of being cheated offline, it's hard for me to see them playing offline if they can't play in online tournaments.
On February 10 2013 11:29 stew_ wrote: judging by his twitter posts, i dont feel that he's very sorry for his actions... something like this should tarnish your reputation as a progamer, as well as a person in general.
ya, its obvious he doesn't give a shit about what he has done, he basically sees himself a victim and that he was in the right to hack in a very arrogant way it seems. only thing he feels bad about or what he did wrong was that he got caught and he will most likely start hacking again once he thinks he found a way which he won't be detected. He just doesn't give a shit about what he has done, plain and simple.
On February 10 2013 11:29 stew_ wrote: judging by his twitter posts, i dont feel that he's very sorry for his actions... something like this should tarnish your reputation as a progamer, as well as a person in general.
ya, its obvious he doesn't give a shit about what he has done, he basically sees himself a victim and that he was in the right to hack in a very arrogant way it seems. only thing he feels bad about or what he did wrong was that he got caught and he will most likely start hacking again once he thinks he found a way which he won't be detected. He just doesn't give a shit about what he has done, plain and simple.
Yeap, he is trying to justify his actions, by calling out other previously cheating pros. Christ, reading his twitter posts is like listening to a 10 year old who is justifying his actions through the actions of his friends...
I'm sorry but I think you guys are a wee biit excessive.
Hacking isn't like murdering someone. It's dishonorable and shitty, yeah, but if a guy gets busted and swears never to do it again.. I mean.. It's not like he hurt anyone.
Edit: I agree with known hackers being restricted or very carefully scrutinized in online tournaments.
He destroyed his honor, trust, and respect from the community, but if he can be good without using hacks, isn't that enough?
that tweet by him saying : "i wonder how long it took for tournament hackers to be forgiven?" is just kinda....like really weird.
So he has confirmed his cheating, but instead of an honest explanatory "come clear" post/thread he just simply asks"ok..ok..ok...you got me....how long (to be forgiven)?"
Dunno. Seems kinda arrogant.
As for the punishment. I really dont know. Lifelong banning seems like wayyyy overdoing it, but what is there else? Isnt banning his 2 smurf accounts equal to a 2x 50 Dollars fine? (or whatever the price for WOL is at the moment). Because that seems kinda too weak for a punishment....
Says a lot about you if you claim to be pro and then get caught map hacking. Furthermore, like disarmed says, his reaction is way too nonchalant and just screams of not being remorseful.
Play it safe. The community should have a 0 tolerance stance on map hackers. It's not like being a pro gamer is some kind of natural right; you're supposed to have chosen that as your 'career' for love and passion of the game, not for petty e-glory on battle.net ladder. This behavior is unacceptable and I hope it's the last time we ever hear of daisuki.
On February 10 2013 16:35 BoX wrote: I'm sorry but I think you guys are a wee biit excessive.
Hacking isn't like murdering someone. It's dishonorable and shitty, yeah, but if a guy gets busted and swears never to do it again.. I mean.. It's not like he hurt anyone.
Edit: I agree with known hackers being restricted or very carefully scrutinized in online tournaments.
He destroyed his honor, trust, and respect from the community, but if he can be good without using hacks, isn't that enough?
I mean, what about Testie?
You must be reading Reddit or something, no one compares his map hacking with murder here and we don't say he should be in jail for it. Considering he is a pro and the way he's tweeting about this show's his mentality is very much in the wrong place and i don't see why we as a community can't point him out on that. Nothing wrong with banning the guy from let's say online tournaments for a period of time as you said. Atleast some form of punishment seems fair to me, we can't allow hacking and a simple finger pointing "pro" to say it was not his choice get away with that.
Only he and time can change our perception on him as a map hacker. Hope he will look at pro's who made these mistakes in the past and learn from them.
On February 10 2013 16:35 BoX wrote: I'm sorry but I think you guys are a wee biit excessive.
Hacking isn't like murdering someone. It's dishonorable and shitty, yeah, but if a guy gets busted and swears never to do it again.. I mean.. It's not like he hurt anyone.
Edit: I agree with known hackers being restricted or very carefully scrutinized in online tournaments.
He destroyed his honor, trust, and respect from the community, but if he can be good without using hacks, isn't that enough?
I mean, what about Testie?
No one is saying he is a bad person or evil, what most people are saying is that if you think hacking the ladder is fine then you probably should not consider a career as a professional gamer. And it actually hurts the integrity of SC2 as an E-sport if hackers would be accepted with such behavior.
Damn.......Excuse my language but fuck hackers....that is the one thing that really kills a game more than anything I think.........His penalty should be extreme....no forgiveness from my end...I hope he loses all sponsorships and is permabanned from everything.
Little fucks like Daisuki is what is wrong with the world.
"I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time."
If my friend tells me he has decided to kill his granny for insurance money and that he has chosen me to help him out in his plan, does that make me less of a killer when I stab that old lady because "it was a worthwhile venture at the time"?
Take responsibility you little vermin. Fuck off right to hell.
On February 11 2013 00:07 MooMu wrote: Little fucks like Daisuki is what is wrong with the world.
"I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time."
If my friend tells me he has decided to kill his granny for insurance money and that he has chosen me to help him out in his plan, does that make me less of a killer when I stab that old lady because "it was a worthwhile venture at the time"?
Take responsibility you little vermin. Fuck off right to hell.
Manner up please, you're just about as immature as him with these unneded insults.
...lol wow people sure are over reacting to this. He got caught, it's good and done. He's always going to have that 'but he hacked' going on. No need for the scum, vermin, go to hell, you're whats wrong with the world...etc etc...
Daisuki's Twitter is a fascinating insight into the thoughts of a cheater. It seems that in his mind he wasn't so much in the wrong for cheating as we are for bringing it up and being concerned about it. At least when other high profile players were caught/accused they ostensibly accepted the premise that cheating is wrong.
On February 11 2013 00:07 MooMu wrote: Little fucks like Daisuki is what is wrong with the world.
"I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time."
If my friend tells me he has decided to kill his granny for insurance money and that he has chosen me to help him out in his plan, does that make me less of a killer when I stab that old lady because "it was a worthwhile venture at the time"?
Take responsibility you little vermin. Fuck off right to hell.
Wow, someone forgot to take their crazy pill this morning.
On February 11 2013 01:38 Dzerzhinsky wrote: Daisuki's Twitter is a fascinating insight into the thoughts of a cheater. It seems that in his mind he wasn't so much in the wrong for cheating as we are for bringing it up and being concerned about it. At least when other high profile players were caught/accused they ostensibly accepted the premise that cheating is wrong.
this pretty much hits the nail right on the head - the hacker kid is still in denial, he somehow thinks everyone else is at fault for discovering the cheating and being angry at him
people like this, when they say "it will never happen again!" - what they actually mean, is that they won't be CAUGHT again! since that's the issue he believes is causing the problem, the catching-of the cheating, not the actual cheating itself...
He deserves it. His dodge is infuriating and I see it too much in life.
Edit: And now he lists names on his twitter after he says he won't "call out people without being sure". Don't worry though, he doesn't know who cheats or not, but here are names anyways.
On February 10 2013 16:35 BoX wrote: I'm sorry but I think you guys are a wee biit excessive.
Hacking isn't like murdering someone. It's dishonorable and shitty, yeah, but if a guy gets busted and swears never to do it again.. I mean.. It's not like he hurt anyone.
Edit: I agree with known hackers being restricted or very carefully scrutinized in online tournaments.
He destroyed his honor, trust, and respect from the community, but if he can be good without using hacks, isn't that enough?
I mean, what about Testie?
No, not like murder at all. More like stealing, which is also illegal and carries penalties.
If he advanced in any tournament by cheating, then he, in essence, stole the opportunity to advance from the other player. If someone has stolen money from a cash register before, but he is real good at math and customer service, will a retail store let him keep running register? No.
On February 10 2013 12:19 vesicular wrote: If the punishment for hacking was more severe, there would be less hackers.
Aye, people need to be made examples of or the message will not sink in and this bullshit will continue.
Except the vast majority of hackers aren't seeking a professional career, and the amount of professionals that have hacked recently is exactly 2.
The amount that got caught you mean. Both of whom made almost no attempt to hide it. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that the two who got caught happened to be ridiculously transparent and bad at covering tracks implies there are more out there who are just better at hiding. The hack shows the production tab, it shows the vision box of your enemy on the minimap, it shows the full minimap. It pings you whenever a drop comes into your vision, it alerts you when you should make supply stuff. Basically you can use it to greatly enhance your play without even turning the fog of war off. And yes, the hack can configure all these things. You should watch a stream of people who use this stuff, some hackers just stream themselves hacking to troll people. It's silly the extend to which you can enhance your play without even turning the fog of war off, let alone peaking into it. You can get away with so much without looking suspicious in the slightest.
Anyhow, if you lifetime ban someone from hacking under thusfar only established promotional account for sponsors whcih were meant to be levelled into GM. You can certainly ban Dimaga, TT1, F91, testie, you name it from esports forever. What they did was far worse than this. Or how about people who get their account levelled or perform such services? Letting another person on my account to fake GM status possibly gives me even more of an unfair advantage than hacking. I'm pretty sure paying some Korean pro ends up getting my account higher than using a hack. So let's ban any pro who ever shared accounts or pros who engaged in account boosting for life amirite? Dual standards much?
Daisuki, a word of advice, you might want to Bill Clinton this shit. Noone will ever believe any excuse you come up with, and the best possible PR move you could ever make would be just to admit to everything, take full responsibility, apologize, and then hope you can move on.
Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
He even enabled autoinject... That it is so hard to find the ones that dont even try to hide it, let you wonder how many out there that do.
Production tab alone give enough information to win most games and i dont see any method how you could detect it. I dont think this is a fight that can be won.
But one less is obvious a good thing.
EDIT: sorry for posting here. Did not realise this is a troll-trollfeeder thread by now.
On February 11 2013 02:41 Slipspace wrote: Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
Best we can hope for is he kills himself.
Good job at over reacting. I know atleast 10 current popular pro gamers that have been caught secretly hacking/cheating in the past but nobody cares anymore, as nobody should. Its just a game.
On February 11 2013 02:46 Sea_Food wrote: Good job at over reacting. I know atleast 10 current popular pro gamers that have been caught secretly hacking/cheating in the past but nobody cares anymore, as nobody should. Its just a game.
On February 11 2013 02:41 Slipspace wrote: Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
Best we can hope for is he kills himself.
Good job at over reacting. I know atleast 10 current popular pro gamers that have been caught secretly hacking/cheating in the past but nobody cares anymore, as nobody should. Its just a game.
On February 11 2013 02:41 Slipspace wrote: Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
Best we can hope for is he kills himself.
youre whats wrong with this world. ITS ladder. Who cares. He's def drinking on your ladder tears right now. and I am too.
I dunno, seems he was just screwing around with some smurf accounts, he apologized instead of denying, obviously he was not hacking at WCS, he's a good player who got caught doing something bad, his team should give him a hefty suspension and we'll see him at next year's WCS...
On February 11 2013 02:46 Sea_Food wrote: Good job at over reacting. I know atleast 10 current popular pro gamers that have been caught secretly hacking/cheating in the past but nobody cares anymore, as nobody should. Its just a game.
Names would be interesting...
For example HayprO was caught cheating BW, and a few other people that turned it around in SC2 and became well liked (some ended up cheating again though).
I am pretty meh about this, I mean sure he was caught cheating (and will likely never be invited to tournaments), but other than that there is no real impact; I had never heard of him anyways...
On February 11 2013 02:41 Slipspace wrote: Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
On February 11 2013 02:41 Slipspace wrote: Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
Best we can hope for is he kills himself.
Good job at over reacting. I know atleast 10 current popular pro gamers that have been caught secretly hacking/cheating in the past but nobody cares anymore, as nobody should. Its just a game.
Plenty of people still care and don't support these cheaters.
I think the only time cheating is okay is in custom games with friends. It can be useful for studying scout patterns and certain timings with a friend.
On February 11 2013 02:41 Slipspace wrote: Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
On February 11 2013 02:41 Slipspace wrote: Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
Best we can hope for is he kills himself.
Are you like totally insane?
Just ignore him, he has probably problems in real life or something, he doesn't understand that this, even if some people take it very seriously, is still a game.
On February 11 2013 03:22 EvanC wrote: I dunno, seems he was just screwing around with some smurf accounts, he apologized instead of denying, obviously he was not hacking at WCS, he's a good player who got caught doing something bad, his team should give him a hefty suspension and we'll see him at next year's WCS...
On February 11 2013 02:46 Sea_Food wrote: Good job at over reacting. I know atleast 10 current popular pro gamers that have been caught secretly hacking/cheating in the past but nobody cares anymore, as nobody should. Its just a game.
Names would be interesting...
I've seen the names fallen several times in this thread alone (and in countless others). Have you not?
Also, I still think everyone in this thread asking for lifetime ban is fucking nuts, hacking on ladder doesn't mean anything and negatively affects a very, very small number of people in comparison to the number of people affected by tournament hacking or other forms of cheating.
On February 11 2013 03:51 travis wrote: I'd love to know why mods warn the one guy but ignore the guy saying that he should kill himself.
edit: don't actually reply to this post. im just complaining where the mods can see it since i dont have access to the reports forum anymore
I will reply to this, it's because the ban was logged in the system waiting for someone to approve it. Warns don't need approval, hence why the warn came before the ban.
I can't tell if basically EVERYONE thought he was being serious or if EVERYONE is trolling, acting as if they care but really don't.
Anyway, just so you all know, Slipspace was -clearly- making a funny. Also, I don't know why a mod would give that poor guy asking to have Slipspace banned got a warning. He's basically saying the same thing as the other 10 people who took Slipspace seriously. You should have pity on him for not realizing the joke.
Back on track here. I recall seeing some form of response from Daisuke, if OP could go find that and add it to the front page, because many people may not have read it.
It's sad that he does good in offline but feels online he has to... This being said, because there is no "anti-hack" system it is always subject to debate and incorrect analysis.
On February 10 2013 11:01 Dundron2000 wrote: i don't believe for a second any sponsor told him to do this. its ridiculous. what would be the motiv? there is none. he's just trying to divert the blame from himself. secondly, so what if someone told him to cheat? if he said yes then he completely lacks integrity. its still his problem that he cheated.
Motives here are obvious, more recognition for him (thus the sponsor) more people want to be tutored by him. More people want him to play with them. Basically their are many reasons to do this from a sponosr perspective. He was already a great player without them so I doubt this is on his end, that said I'm awaiting his response.
There are no motives. There are hundereds of players as good as Daisuki who NITRIX couldve thrown their money at. If you have trouble reading between the lines, what Daisuki says is "My contract had a performance clause, I had no choice, I have (a family) myself to feed!"
On February 11 2013 04:14 Blargh wrote: Back on track here. I recall seeing some form of response from Daisuke, if OP could go find that and add it to the front page, because many people may not have read it.
It was added to the front page. Here it is again for those who missed it (I was looking around earlier myself):
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
On February 10 2013 11:01 Dundron2000 wrote: i don't believe for a second any sponsor told him to do this. its ridiculous. what would be the motiv? there is none. he's just trying to divert the blame from himself. secondly, so what if someone told him to cheat? if he said yes then he completely lacks integrity. its still his problem that he cheated.
Motives here are obvious, more recognition for him (thus the sponsor) more people want to be tutored by him. More people want him to play with them. Basically their are many reasons to do this from a sponosr perspective. He was already a great player without them so I doubt this is on his end, that said I'm awaiting his response.
There are no motives. There are hundereds of players as good as Daisuki who NITRIX couldve thrown their money at. If you have trouble reading between the lines, what Daisuki says is "My contract had a performance clause, I had no choice, I have (a family) myself to feed!"
Disagreeing with the motives is not the same thing as there aren't being any. They could be bad motives, but motives none the less. Doesn't excuse Daisuki in any way though.
People need to take a chill pill that is without question. Put things into perspective, first off it's only a video game, and secondly he has only been caught cheating on ladder games(on 2 accounts). So if we have to be technical about it, he only wasted his opponents and his own time. No money was robbed, or anything to that degree of evil.
He admitted "hacking", I think 6 months ~ 1 year ban is suitable.
Although him asking how long "tournament hackers take to get forgiven" is incredibly sketchy in and of itself. For his sake, let's hope he didn't hack in tournaments.
On February 11 2013 02:41 Slipspace wrote: Shun him Starcraft community. Blacklist him from all future competition in any esport. He is a drain on the community and humanity as a whole. In a less civilized world he would be tortured and put to death.
Best we can hope for is he kills himself.
Good job at over reacting. I know atleast 10 current popular pro gamers that have been caught secretly hacking/cheating in the past but nobody cares anymore, as nobody should. Its just a game.
lol ? so lets all cheat and hack and not care is just a game . are you seriously ? how would your feeling be when you lost a game where you gave it your best and then you see the guy just map hacked ? damn i wish ppl would play more the game and actualy understand how bad it feels to get cheated .
I remember back in BW days that if you were caught cheating/hacking, you were instantly shunned from this community until you earned the trust back by actually playing straight up and proving yourself legit. Sad to see that hardly anybody cares anymore for integrity. Even for a crappy game like SC2.
Edit: At least he manned up and is owning his decisions. That takes guts to do and I hope this becomes a bigger motivation for him to become a better player.
On February 11 2013 04:14 Blargh wrote: I can't tell if basically EVERYONE thought he was being serious or if EVERYONE is trolling, acting as if they care but really don't.
Anyway, just so you all know, Slipspace was -clearly- making a funny. Also, I don't know why a mod would give that poor guy asking to have Slipspace banned got a warning. He's basically saying the same thing as the other 10 people who took Slipspace seriously. You should have pity on him for not realizing the joke.
Back on track here. I recall seeing some form of response from Daisuke, if OP could go find that and add it to the front page, because many people may not have read it.
Unless you are a comedian, joking about suicide is a very bad idea. Even worse on the internet when you can't spot sarcasm in the tone.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
I don't think he ever said that ladder doesn't matter. And if it doesn't matter, why hack at all?
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
But should he be banned from tournies if he never hacked in tournies and, in fact, did quite well? That's the real question IMO.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Your comment is absolutely terrible. Its really sad you can downplay someone who actively cheats at the game. If daisukis sponsors are paying him to win games, then using cheats to do it shows how scummy some people can be.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
But should he be banned from tournies if he never hacked in tournies and, in fact, did quite well? That's the real question IMO.
Yes he should be. If every progamer or top player listened to you, then they would all just hack on ladder and only compete in tournaments. That alone would ruin the entire online experience for many players, especially those not attending tournaments yet, and are trying to break out or improve. All you would have are top players cheating on the ladder. What you are stating is REALLY REALLY terrible.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
But should he be banned from tournies if he never hacked in tournies and, in fact, did quite well? That's the real question IMO.
How do you tell if he hacked in tournies? This community wants proof beyond any doubt before they declare anyone guilty of hacking, and it would be very hard to gather the amount of tournament replays of daisuki to prove whether or not he hacked in tournaments.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Regardless of whether or not ladder 'matters' (lots of pros will say they practice 95% on ladder, but some others don't bother with it at all), how can he be trusted to not play with maphacks in online tournaments after this?
He was getting paid to level those accounts with his sponsor's name in it, and instead of doing it legitimately he used maphacks for easy money. What's to stop him from using them again for some more easy money in online tournaments?
If you want to trust and defend someone who doesn't even seem sorry or remorseful for his actions, that's your prerogative however. But I know that I wouldn't want to play him in online tournaments until either Blizzard renders the current wave of maphacks obsolete or he is streaming with webcams set up so that he couldn't be cheating.
Because people cheat and I don't really see the need in getting all worked up over something so insignificant. Different viewpoint but I don't understand the people who sit around analyzing replays for "OH HE CHEATED!!" who cares? does it affect your life in any way? Think of it as playing on hard mode, just get good enough to beat the hacker. And it seems like his sponsor sort of forced him into it by requiring a certain ranking. The only problem I have is his lack of hiding it, if you are going to cheat at something don't get caught but again just my opinion.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Your comment is absolutely terrible. Its really sad you can downplay someone who actively cheats at the game. If daisukis sponsors are paying him to win games, then using cheats to do it shows how scummy some people can be.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
But should he be banned from tournies if he never hacked in tournies and, in fact, did quite well? That's the real question IMO.
Yes he should be. If every progamer or top player listened to you, then they would all just hack on ladder and only compete in tournaments. That alone would ruin the entire online experience for many players, especially those not attending tournaments yet, and are trying to break out or improve. All you would have are top players cheating on the ladder. What you are stating is REALLY REALLY terrible.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
But should he be banned from tournies if he never hacked in tournies and, in fact, did quite well? That's the real question IMO.
That depends on the tournament organizers. However since he has a bad name atm allowing him in your tournament will give bad feedback as "the tournament that allows hackers". Most likely no tournament will want to get close to him at least for a couple months.
First off he was not even hiding the hacking (which means he ll get caught 100%) and second he seems to be a decent player without any hacks (unlike the 60apm scrubs that try to make it into gm by hacking).
So why the hell would you maphack when you are have a reputation to lose and and you know that you ll get caught anyway, this hurts my brain...
On February 11 2013 06:24 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Because people cheat and I don't really see the need in getting all worked up over something so insignificant. Different viewpoint but I don't understand the people who sit around analyzing replays for "OH HE CHEATED!!" who cares? does it affect your life in any way? Think of it as playing on hard mode, just get good enough to beat the hacker. And it seems like his sponsor sort of forced him into it by requiring a certain ranking. The only problem I have is his lack of hiding it, if you are going to cheat at something don't get caught but again just my opinion.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Your comment is absolutely terrible. Its really sad you can downplay someone who actively cheats at the game. If daisukis sponsors are paying him to win games, then using cheats to do it shows how scummy some people can be.
On February 11 2013 06:04 Shiori wrote:
On February 11 2013 06:02 FabledIntegral wrote:
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
But should he be banned from tournies if he never hacked in tournies and, in fact, did quite well? That's the real question IMO.
Yes he should be. If every progamer or top player listened to you, then they would all just hack on ladder and only compete in tournaments. That alone would ruin the entire online experience for many players, especially those not attending tournaments yet, and are trying to break out or improve. All you would have are top players cheating on the ladder. What you are stating is REALLY REALLY terrible.
If it would be "no big deal" and if nobody would get worked up then a lot more people will cheat because even if it surfaces nobody would give a fuck if we all consider it minor because it doesnt affect our life.
On February 11 2013 06:24 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Because people cheat and I don't really see the need in getting all worked up over something so insignificant. Different viewpoint but I don't understand the people who sit around analyzing replays for "OH HE CHEATED!!" who cares?
The integrity of the games online competive scene is important. People getting banned and outed for hacking further discourages this kind of shit from happening.
On February 11 2013 06:24 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Think of it as playing on hard mode, just get good enough to beat the hacker.
This statement is absolutely ridiculous. If he is good enough to get 2nd in WCS without hacks then he is already a player with notable skill. Now, lets assume you are playing in an online tourney and first place is $1000. Do you really think "get good enough to beat a high level player who has unfair advantage using maphack and should win 99,9% of games vs people that have equal mechanical skill as him"?
On February 11 2013 06:24 HappyTimePANDA wrote: And it seems like his sponsor sort of forced him into it by requiring a certain ranking.
I didn't see this mentioned anywhere but also he was maphacking on other accounts too to boost them, not only the GM accounts he owned.
On February 11 2013 06:24 HappyTimePANDA wrote: The only problem I have is his lack of hiding it, if you are going to cheat at something don't get caught but again just my opinion.
You are just as bad as him if you don't see anything wrong with what he did.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Why wouldn't team liquid just ban this guy from the site? He's openly admitted to map hacking, and last I checked that's not welcome here. Come on guys, just because he * claims * that he doesn't use cheats in online or offline tournaments doesn't mean anything. If you're willing to hack / cheat on the ladder then you're willing to do it in a online tournament as well. I'm willing to bet money on that.
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Why wouldn't team liquid just ban this guy from the site? He's openly admitted to map hacking, and last I checked that's not welcome here. Come on guys, just because he * claims * that he doesn't use cheats in online or offline tournaments doesn't mean anything. If you're willing to hack / cheat on the ladder then you're willing to do it in a online tournament as well. I'm willing to bet money on that.
If you check the automated ban list he's already banned.
The people hardest on the hackers who go all balls-out to find evidence in detective mode are probably hackers themselves; what other motivation could one have to spend so much damn free time on it? -_-
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP. And so forth... I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago. I apologize for that. I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS) “Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.” I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Why wouldn't team liquid just ban this guy from the site? He's openly admitted to map hacking, and last I checked that's not welcome here. Come on guys, just because he * claims * that he doesn't use cheats in online or offline tournaments doesn't mean anything. If you're willing to hack / cheat on the ladder then you're willing to do it in a online tournament as well. I'm willing to bet money on that.
They banned him, they just waited a little bit to see if he followed up on bold part.
On February 11 2013 06:57 LF[Media] wrote: The people hardest on the hackers who go all balls-out to find evidence in detective mode are probably hackers themselves; what other motivation could one have to spend so much damn free time on it? -_-
So you are saying that TL.Net admins, the tournament owners and Blizzard are hackers? They are the ones who are going to do the worst possible thing by actually banning him and preventing him from communicating to the community or playing the game in any shape or form
On February 11 2013 06:57 LF[Media] wrote: The people hardest on the hackers who go all balls-out to find evidence in detective mode are probably hackers themselves; what other motivation could one have to spend so much damn free time on it? -_-
The thing is, as a good player you sometimes "feel" something is wrong because you know how regular opponents play, how they scout how they react and if you then face a maphacker you are asking yourself about his decisions, his lack of scouting etc. So the way a hacker plays is different from a person who doesnt hack, then you have to collect evidence if you got this "feeling". IN this case it was really easy because he wasnt even trying to hide it, if this guy would be a regular hacker on the ladder 2-3 replays would be enough to confirm him as a hacker instead of this bullet proof post the OP made, you dont have to be a detective to see he is clearly maphacking. It was acutally really easy to see that.
On February 11 2013 04:14 Blargh wrote: I can't tell if basically EVERYONE thought he was being serious or if EVERYONE is trolling, acting as if they care but really don't.
Anyway, just so you all know, Slipspace was -clearly- making a funny. Also, I don't know why a mod would give that poor guy asking to have Slipspace banned got a warning. He's basically saying the same thing as the other 10 people who took Slipspace seriously. You should have pity on him for not realizing the joke.
Back on track here. I recall seeing some form of response from Daisuke, if OP could go find that and add it to the front page, because many people may not have read it.
Backseat moderating is frowned upon here on TL as far as I can tell. If you have an issue with a post, you report it (I believe you need 1000 posts for that button to appear or something) and then leave it for the mods to "cast judgement". Great system which seems to work pretty well
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Your comment is absolutely terrible. Its really sad you can downplay someone who actively cheats at the game. If daisukis sponsors are paying him to win games, then using cheats to do it shows how scummy some people can be.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
But should he be banned from tournies if he never hacked in tournies and, in fact, did quite well? That's the real question IMO.
Yes he should be. If every progamer or top player listened to you, then they would all just hack on ladder and only compete in tournaments. That alone would ruin the entire online experience for many players, especially those not attending tournaments yet, and are trying to break out or improve. All you would have are top players cheating on the ladder. What you are stating is REALLY REALLY terrible.
Somehow me asking a question turned into stating something terrible. Newsflash kiddo: I didn't state anything.
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Your comment is absolutely terrible. Its really sad you can downplay someone who actively cheats at the game. If daisukis sponsors are paying him to win games, then using cheats to do it shows how scummy some people can be.
On February 11 2013 06:04 Shiori wrote:
On February 11 2013 06:02 FabledIntegral wrote:
On February 11 2013 05:59 HappyTimePANDA wrote: A long as he doesn't hack in tournies who cares? I'm with him on the fact that ladder doesn't really matter
Because it still ruins the experience for all those that play on it..?
But should he be banned from tournies if he never hacked in tournies and, in fact, did quite well? That's the real question IMO.
Yes he should be. If every progamer or top player listened to you, then they would all just hack on ladder and only compete in tournaments. That alone would ruin the entire online experience for many players, especially those not attending tournaments yet, and are trying to break out or improve. All you would have are top players cheating on the ladder. What you are stating is REALLY REALLY terrible.
Somehow me asking a question turned into stating something terrible. Newsflash kiddo: I didn't state anything.
...if you asked a question... did you not do it in a statement?
Should IP ban him and never invite him to anything anymore. Doesn't matter if it's "just ladder" - Clearly he is ruining the fun of others and damaging the community.
On February 11 2013 06:57 LF[Media] wrote: The people hardest on the hackers who go all balls-out to find evidence in detective mode are probably hackers themselves; what other motivation could one have to spend so much damn free time on it? -_-
how about hating injustice? I seriously HATE injustice, everytime I read about it in any form, it makes me cringe.
Jesus, could someone tell Daisuki to at least stop twittering, what he writes isn't exactly helping him since it sounds like he is totally egocentric and that he doesn't seem to understand what he has done. -.-
On February 11 2013 06:57 LF[Media] wrote: The people hardest on the hackers who go all balls-out to find evidence in detective mode are probably hackers themselves; what other motivation could one have to spend so much damn free time on it? -_-
Of all the facepalming posts in this thread, this has to be the most facepalmingest
On February 11 2013 06:57 LF[Media] wrote: The people hardest on the hackers who go all balls-out to find evidence in detective mode are probably hackers themselves; what other motivation could one have to spend so much damn free time on it? -_-
Of all the facepalming posts in this thread, this has to be the most facepalmingest
All the detectives wasting time trying to catch murderers are probably murderers themselves...
On February 11 2013 06:57 LF[Media] wrote: The people hardest on the hackers who go all balls-out to find evidence in detective mode are probably hackers themselves; what other motivation could one have to spend so much damn free time on it? -_-
Of all the facepalming posts in this thread, this has to be the most facepalmingest
All the detectives wasting time trying to catch murderers are probably murderers themselves...
On February 11 2013 06:57 LF[Media] wrote: The people hardest on the hackers who go all balls-out to find evidence in detective mode are probably hackers themselves; what other motivation could one have to spend so much damn free time on it? -_-
Of all the facepalming posts in this thread, this has to be the most facepalmingest
All the detectives wasting time trying to catch murderers are probably murderers themselves...
On February 11 2013 07:37 Integra wrote: Jesus, could someone tell Daisuki to at least stop twittering, what he writes isn't exactly helping him since it sounds like he is totally egocentric and that he doesn't seem to understand what he has done. -.-
On February 11 2013 08:59 Wpgstevo wrote: Wow SoOJuuu you got any evidence that RemarK is a hacker? Careful insinuating that sort of thing, its pretty rude unless you are gonna back it up.
That guy's just a troll, he's always in the maphacker thread defending confirmed maphackers and trying to help them look like victims, this thread is no different. best to just ignore him
On February 11 2013 08:41 RaNgeD wrote: Nice job RemarK. I can see you learned from my mistakes..
On February 11 2013 07:37 Integra wrote: Jesus, could someone tell Daisuki to at least stop twittering, what he writes isn't exactly helping him since it sounds like he is totally egocentric and that he doesn't seem to understand what he has done. -.-
On February 11 2013 09:41 SoOJuuu wrote: Im half serious. But this thread should be closed. He was shut down, banned and pissed on.
If you want to hate on him please Tweet at him.
#nuffsaid. #shutdownthisthreadmods
if you cant find his twitter, you obviously cant use google. (or the search bar in twitter)
There you go. Look at all those results which are his Twitter. It's a good thing you decided to be a dick instead of just link to it though, that's very helpful.
My fav part is that he tweets, but doesnt show up here. Furthermore, says OTHERS hack and cheat (making it okay for him to do so? I guess, in his mind?) and on top of that, he claims to only have hacked for 2 weeks.
On February 11 2013 10:01 Malpractice.248 wrote: My fav part is that he tweets, but doesnt show up here. Furthermore, says OTHERS hack and cheat (making it okay for him to do so? I guess, in his mind?) and on top of that, he claims to only have hacked for 2 weeks.
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
He can't show up here anymore because he's already banned
On February 11 2013 08:42 SoOJuuu wrote: Casinos hire ex-card counters to find card counters... just saying.
Id like to think of remark as a card counter finder. Whether hes an ex-card counter we'll never know. But the best know how to catch the best.
Speaking of card counters, I watched a guy sit down with $100 and walk out with $5,000 the other day. Most amazing thing I've ever seen in recent years. Didn't get questioned or kicked off the table or anything.... He was definitely no Daisuki.
A permaban seems unreasonable. Worst I see is him being banned for 6 months from all online tournaments. He would probably retire because of a 2 year ban so it would be no use. Stripping him of all recent online tournaments might be a little better although it might seem a little extreme. I hope he sees the error in his ways! I remember cheering him on versus Vibe haha. Daisuki fighting!!!
On February 11 2013 22:09 1Dhalism wrote: do you guys think he should be stripped of his previous tournaments wins a la Lance.
No. Lance doped in all of his tournament wins, Daisuke hacked on ladder. As most tournaments are not BYOC, it is safe to say he did´nt cheat there (+people stand behind him at MLG/WCS would have seen it).
On February 11 2013 10:01 Malpractice.248 wrote: My fav part is that he tweets, but doesnt show up here. Furthermore, says OTHERS hack and cheat (making it okay for him to do so? I guess, in his mind?) and on top of that, he claims to only have hacked for 2 weeks.
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
He can't show up here anymore because he's already banned
Why the hell would he get banned from the forum? That's a given that he shouldn't be allowed to be a pro/semipro-gamer anymore, but from TL as a video game forum?? Are you telling me that nobody on this forum ever used maphacks?
On February 11 2013 10:01 Malpractice.248 wrote: My fav part is that he tweets, but doesnt show up here. Furthermore, says OTHERS hack and cheat (making it okay for him to do so? I guess, in his mind?) and on top of that, he claims to only have hacked for 2 weeks.
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
He can't show up here anymore because he's already banned
Why the hell would he get banned from the forum? That's a given that he shouldn't be allowed to be a pro/semipro-gamer anymore, but from TL as a video game forum?? Are you telling me that nobody on this forum ever used maphacks?
Just like many hackers have been banned in the past from TL they will be banned in the future as well, some are let back in after a while but TL has zero tolerance for hacking in general.
NITRIXdaisuki was just banned by Plexa.
That account was created on 2010-12-09 01:48:38 and had 57 posts.
On February 11 2013 10:01 Malpractice.248 wrote: My fav part is that he tweets, but doesnt show up here. Furthermore, says OTHERS hack and cheat (making it okay for him to do so? I guess, in his mind?) and on top of that, he claims to only have hacked for 2 weeks.
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
He can't show up here anymore because he's already banned
Why the hell would he get banned from the forum? That's a given that he shouldn't be allowed to be a pro/semipro-gamer anymore, but from TL as a video game forum?? Are you telling me that nobody on this forum ever used maphacks?
Just like many hackers have been banned in the past from TL they will be banned in the future as well, some are let back in after a while but TL has zero tolerance for hacking in general.
That account was created on 2010-12-09 01:48:38 and had 57 posts.
Reason: Hacker. Zero tolerance for scum.
I completely agree with the "Zero tolerance for scum" policy. I just didn't know that what you do on ladder had any impact on your account's status on TL.
well he apologize but we cant accept it "i want play still in online tour" etc its just NO WAY
otherwise everyone can try hack and if caught "ok now i play without cheating" ... sry but ask again in 2years
On February 11 2013 23:20 shadymmj wrote: id bet savior would be allowed back in here to post though, if he wanted to
he lost on purpose, not hacked ^^ jaeh i know its even worse but he not was against the other players just against the money betters ... still its nice he got perm banned from every game forever but well ... still i think cheating is worse ...
On February 11 2013 22:09 1Dhalism wrote: do you guys think he should be stripped of his previous tournaments wins a la Lance.
No. Lance doped in all of his tournament wins, Daisuke hacked on ladder. As most tournaments are not BYOC, it is safe to say he did´nt cheat there (+people stand behind him at MLG/WCS would have seen it).
On February 11 2013 10:48 KaiserKieran wrote: A permaban seems unreasonable. Worst I see is him being banned for 6 months from all online tournaments. He would probably retire because of a 2 year ban so it would be no use. Stripping him of all recent online tournaments might be a little better although it might seem a little extreme. I hope he sees the error in his ways! I remember cheering him on versus Vibe haha. Daisuki fighting!!!
I genuinely agree with this. Yes, he should be punished, but we have no proof he hacked at a tournament either offline or online. That would be grounds for a perma-ban. He's obviously not "scum", anymore than people who lie/cheat are scum. They are desperate and unscrupulous, but honestly, no one is perfect. Justice is necessary, but all this high-handed "scum" business is incredibly hypocritical. Not in the sense that everyone cheats, but in the sense that everyone fucks up, many times.
Whatever the case, I hope Daisuki finds legitimate success and growth through this public denouncement. Godspeed.
It hurts me to have to defend Daisuki, but this is getting out of hand. This whole cheating thing is really bringing out the inner-Javert from this community. Yes, what he did was wrong. Yes, he deserves some kind of punishment. But the level of vitriol and heavy handedness because of this incident is obnoxious.
Some questions for all the people suggesting a permaban from competitive events: How exactly would such a ban be administered and enforced? There isn't a KeSPA here to block him from joining teams or attending events. It's up to each event, team, and sponsor to decide whether or not he can join. Are we seriously suggesting that we as a community bully and threaten them all into shunning him? Do we threaten boycotts of teams and events he's included in? Are we seriously considering enforcing a ban who's duration is based on nothing more then how angry as a mob we are?
Cummon people, that's how middle school kids deal with problems. If you truly want the eSports community to be a professional scene (as I do) then it needs to be able to handle disputes in a reasonable and rational way. I know we're all upset about this now, but a permaban would be completely inconsistent with the precedents set on how we've dealt with similar incidents in the past. Are we really going to give Daisuki a more difficult time than Dragon for the simple reason that Daisuki doesn't make us laugh with silly videos of trolling people in Gold league?
On February 12 2013 00:05 YumYumGranola wrote: This thread makes me sad.
It hurts me to have to defend Daisuki, but this is getting out of hand. This whole cheating thing is really bringing out the inner-Javert from this community. Yes, what he did was wrong. Yes, he deserves some kind of punishment. But the level of vitriol and heavy handedness because of this incident is obnoxious.
Some questions for all the people suggesting a permaban from competitive events: How exactly would such a ban be administered and enforced? There isn't a KeSPA here to block him from joining teams or attending events. It's up to each event, team, and sponsor to decide whether or not he can join. Are we seriously suggesting that we as a community bully and threaten them all into shunning him? Do we threaten boycotts of teams and events he's included in? Are we seriously considering enforcing a ban who's duration is based on nothing more then how angry as a mob we are?
Cummon people, that's how middle school kids deal with problems. If you truly want the eSports community to be a professional scene (as I do) then it needs to be able to handle disputes in a reasonable and rational way. I know we're all upset about this now, but a permaban would be completely inconsistent with the precedents set on how we've dealt with similar incidents in the past. Are we really going to give Daisuki a more difficult time than Dragon for the simple reason that Daisuki doesn't make us laugh with silly videos of trolling people in Gold league?
We are absolutely going to act professional BY BANNING HIM FROM EVERYTHING.
I certainly wouldn't want to play against a cheater regardless of if he is still cheating or not, especially if my career and thousands of dollars are on the line which for most pros is absolutely the case.
We need to prevent further hacking and cheating by doing exactly what is being done. By outing them for what they are, and banning them from everything and anything to do with professional Starcraft. ESPECIALLY online. Zero tolerance from scum is exactly the kind of attitute we need to keep things professional.
The whole "it's just ladder" excuse people are using to defend him is utter garbage, especially when you are joining tournaments and have top 50 GM accounts. Considering that is how most Korean pros practice is primarily the ladder, you are ruining their hard work and dedication and most importantly of all, their careers.
A cheater is a cheater, he deserves much harsher punishment than we are actually able to give him.
On February 11 2013 10:01 Malpractice.248 wrote: My fav part is that he tweets, but doesnt show up here. Furthermore, says OTHERS hack and cheat (making it okay for him to do so? I guess, in his mind?) and on top of that, he claims to only have hacked for 2 weeks.
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
He can't show up here anymore because he's already banned
Why the hell would he get banned from the forum? That's a given that he shouldn't be allowed to be a pro/semipro-gamer anymore, but from TL as a video game forum?? Are you telling me that nobody on this forum ever used maphacks?
Just like many hackers have been banned in the past from TL they will be banned in the future as well, some are let back in after a while but TL has zero tolerance for hacking in general.
NITRIXdaisuki was just banned by Plexa.
That account was created on 2010-12-09 01:48:38 and had 57 posts.
Reason: Hacker. Zero tolerance for scum.
I completely agree with the "Zero tolerance for scum" policy. I just didn't know that what you do on ladder had any impact on your account's status on TL.
I too find it a bit ham-handed. Worst case ban him from SC2 forum and allow him elsewhere. TT1 made his way back onto the forums.
On February 12 2013 00:05 YumYumGranola wrote: This thread makes me sad.
It hurts me to have to defend Daisuki, but this is getting out of hand. This whole cheating thing is really bringing out the inner-Javert from this community. Yes, what he did was wrong. Yes, he deserves some kind of punishment. But the level of vitriol and heavy handedness because of this incident is obnoxious.
Some questions for all the people suggesting a permaban from competitive events: How exactly would such a ban be administered and enforced? There isn't a KeSPA here to block him from joining teams or attending events. It's up to each event, team, and sponsor to decide whether or not he can join. Are we seriously suggesting that we as a community bully and threaten them all into shunning him? Do we threaten boycotts of teams and events he's included in? Are we seriously considering enforcing a ban who's duration is based on nothing more then how angry as a mob we are?
Cummon people, that's how middle school kids deal with problems. If you truly want the eSports community to be a professional scene (as I do) then it needs to be able to handle disputes in a reasonable and rational way. I know we're all upset about this now, but a permaban would be completely inconsistent with the precedents set on how we've dealt with similar incidents in the past. Are we really going to give Daisuki a more difficult time than Dragon for the simple reason that Daisuki doesn't make us laugh with silly videos of trolling people in Gold league?
We are absolutely going to act professional BY BANNING HIM FROM EVERYTHING.
I certainly wouldn't want to play against a cheater regardless of if he is still cheating or not, especially if my career and thousands of dollars are on the line which for most pros is absolutely the case.
We need to prevent further hacking and cheating by doing exactly what is being done. By outing them for what they are, and banning them from everything and anything to do with professional Starcraft. ESPECIALLY online. Zero tolerance from scum is exactly the kind of attitute we need to keep things professional.
The whole "it's just ladder" excuse people are using to defend him is utter garbage, especially when you are joining tournaments and have top 50 GM accounts. Considering that is how most Korean pros practice is primarily the ladder, you are ruining their hard work and dedication and most importantly of all, their careers.
A cheater is a cheater, he deserves much harsher punishment than we are actually able to give him.
Again, how? How do you propose we go about "BANNING HIM FROM EVERYTHING." as you say? In the professional world you don't just throw undefined phrases like that and pretend you're doing justice. There has to be a consistent, well understood set of standards with consistently applied penalties to issues. Heavy handed justice based on making examples of those who do wrong are characteristics of mobs and dictators, not reasoned professionals.
On February 12 2013 00:05 YumYumGranola wrote: This thread makes me sad.
It hurts me to have to defend Daisuki, but this is getting out of hand. This whole cheating thing is really bringing out the inner-Javert from this community. Yes, what he did was wrong. Yes, he deserves some kind of punishment. But the level of vitriol and heavy handedness because of this incident is obnoxious.
Some questions for all the people suggesting a permaban from competitive events: How exactly would such a ban be administered and enforced? There isn't a KeSPA here to block him from joining teams or attending events. It's up to each event, team, and sponsor to decide whether or not he can join. Are we seriously suggesting that we as a community bully and threaten them all into shunning him? Do we threaten boycotts of teams and events he's included in? Are we seriously considering enforcing a ban who's duration is based on nothing more then how angry as a mob we are?
Cummon people, that's how middle school kids deal with problems. If you truly want the eSports community to be a professional scene (as I do) then it needs to be able to handle disputes in a reasonable and rational way. I know we're all upset about this now, but a permaban would be completely inconsistent with the precedents set on how we've dealt with similar incidents in the past. Are we really going to give Daisuki a more difficult time than Dragon for the simple reason that Daisuki doesn't make us laugh with silly videos of trolling people in Gold league?
We are absolutely going to act professional BY BANNING HIM FROM EVERYTHING.
I certainly wouldn't want to play against a cheater regardless of if he is still cheating or not, especially if my career and thousands of dollars are on the line which for most pros is absolutely the case.
We need to prevent further hacking and cheating by doing exactly what is being done. By outing them for what they are, and banning them from everything and anything to do with professional Starcraft. ESPECIALLY online. Zero tolerance from scum is exactly the kind of attitute we need to keep things professional.
The whole "it's just ladder" excuse people are using to defend him is utter garbage, especially when you are joining tournaments and have top 50 GM accounts. Considering that is how most Korean pros practice is primarily the ladder, you are ruining their hard work and dedication and most importantly of all, their careers.
A cheater is a cheater, he deserves much harsher punishment than we are actually able to give him.
Then we should ban these "scums" (didnt want to use that word, but as you all call cheaters scum, and as and you say: a cheater is always a cheater..)
Cheating on the Ladder is horrible, but it doesn't make him a "scum", seriously he confessed and said he will not do it again so I think some of you guys are too harsh. I am not saying he should go unpunished, but if he never cheated on tournaments then he should not get more than 6 months ban imo (and even that is kinda a lot).
On February 12 2013 00:05 YumYumGranola wrote: This thread makes me sad.
It hurts me to have to defend Daisuki, but this is getting out of hand. This whole cheating thing is really bringing out the inner-Javert from this community. Yes, what he did was wrong. Yes, he deserves some kind of punishment. But the level of vitriol and heavy handedness because of this incident is obnoxious.
Some questions for all the people suggesting a permaban from competitive events: How exactly would such a ban be administered and enforced? There isn't a KeSPA here to block him from joining teams or attending events. It's up to each event, team, and sponsor to decide whether or not he can join. Are we seriously suggesting that we as a community bully and threaten them all into shunning him? Do we threaten boycotts of teams and events he's included in? Are we seriously considering enforcing a ban who's duration is based on nothing more then how angry as a mob we are?
Cummon people, that's how middle school kids deal with problems. If you truly want the eSports community to be a professional scene (as I do) then it needs to be able to handle disputes in a reasonable and rational way. I know we're all upset about this now, but a permaban would be completely inconsistent with the precedents set on how we've dealt with similar incidents in the past. Are we really going to give Daisuki a more difficult time than Dragon for the simple reason that Daisuki doesn't make us laugh with silly videos of trolling people in Gold league?
We are absolutely going to act professional BY BANNING HIM FROM EVERYTHING.
I certainly wouldn't want to play against a cheater regardless of if he is still cheating or not, especially if my career and thousands of dollars are on the line which for most pros is absolutely the case.
We need to prevent further hacking and cheating by doing exactly what is being done. By outing them for what they are, and banning them from everything and anything to do with professional Starcraft. ESPECIALLY online. Zero tolerance from scum is exactly the kind of attitute we need to keep things professional.
The whole "it's just ladder" excuse people are using to defend him is utter garbage, especially when you are joining tournaments and have top 50 GM accounts. Considering that is how most Korean pros practice is primarily the ladder, you are ruining their hard work and dedication and most importantly of all, their careers.
A cheater is a cheater, he deserves much harsher punishment than we are actually able to give him.
Agreed 100% , cheaters should not be tolerated , period. There is no reason to be lenient , he doesn't respect competition and fair play . We shouldn't allow him in the community , doesn't respect us he deserves none back.
After I got a warning from posting something crappy in this thread I will now try with something a little better.
Instead of speaking, do something, let your actions reflect your opinion.
Say I was running a tournament, then it is up to me whether or not I wish to have someone who has admitted to cheating once play in my tournament.
If I want to watch some games, as a viewer, which tournament do I tune in to, the one with former cheater or not.
People need to stop pushing their own morals and beliefs on to others, if you want to shun Daisuki, then do that, if you think he deserves to be forgiven (either immediately or as time goes by) then support him. But instead of loud mouthing on the forums, speak with your actions (or wallet).
The only one who HAS to act a certain way in this situation is Blizzard, because their job is to ban people who cheat on ladder. Everything else is subjective.
Its funny to me that some devil's advocates here are lamenting the desire of posters in this thread to have Daisuki banned for life.
News flash: The posters on TL who don't have the power to enforce a ban are aware of this fact.
What they are saying is that they hope the tournament organizers ban him. Since this community is comprised of pros and fans alike, it doesn't seem unreasonable to express that desire in this thread. Obviously they don't have the power to enforce, but they know that already.
Redemption and/or forgiveness are down the line, not something to discuss before he even has occasion to uninstall the hacks...
On February 10 2013 11:58 vectorix108 wrote: Anyone see him post this back in the Spades hacking thread? That last paragraph is great LOL
Wow this is just... lol.
I wonder if all pro-hackers have some sort of secret channel or code that they abide by, in an attempt to protect one another from the community.
That quote from him is about the only thing entertaining from this thread. It's hard to define proper judgement with these incidents because it sets the standard for future encounters with this.
On February 12 2013 01:35 Wpgstevo wrote: Its funny to me that some devil's advocates here are lamenting the desire of posters in this thread to have Daisuki banned for life.
News flash: The posters on TL who don't have the power to enforce a ban are aware of this fact.
What they are saying is that they hope the tournament organizers ban him. Since this community is comprised of pros and fans alike, it doesn't seem unreasonable to express that desire in this thread. Obviously they don't have the power to enforce, but they know that already.
Redemption and/or forgiveness are down the line, not something to discuss before he even has occasion to uninstall the hacks...
And I guess you figure that when we sentence someone to imprisonment, we should just not bother talking about their parole eligibility until X amount of years after the crime, right? Wrong. There's a reason we say "sentenced to 25 years with no possibility of parole until Y years." Everything should be sorted immediately. Daisuki not hacking in tournaments should mitigate his sentence somewhat, since he didn't strictly speaking conspire to acquire money by hacking, which would be a lot worse than what he did do. Not that what he did isn't bad, mind you, but it's less bad than hacking in a tournament.
The real problem I have wit this thread is that people are, once again, opting for the most extreme punishments available to them by default. There should be a code of conduct with reasonable punitive measures, not maximum punishment every time anyone does anything bad. This goes for all those PR incidents with Destiny, Stephano, etc, as well. The punishment needs to fit the crime. We don't sentence people to life in prison for stealing, for example.
I'd say ban his accounts, shun him from TL, and basically not give him a platform for awhile. I don't think it's necessary to ban him from competing in offline tournaments. But from online tournaments? One year ban at minimum.
Cheating in ladder is bad obv. but it's kind of hypocrite considering other cheating that has happened over the years and nobody spoke about it. Teams playing with wrong players (using another alias) in clanwars, several people in the same room with the player watching him play and pointing out things he missed in minimap + "coaching" him during play etc. Of course, it's impossible to prove but everyone knows it was quite common. I'm kind of puzzled why this hasn't been touched ever in sotg or itg or somewhere. It's easier to crusify these blatant cheaters using hacks of course.
On February 12 2013 00:54 moskonia wrote: Cheating on the Ladder is horrible, but it doesn't make him a "scum", seriously he confessed and said he will not do it again so I think some of you guys are too harsh. I am not saying he should go unpunished, but if he never cheated on tournaments then he should not get more than 6 months ban imo (and even that is kinda a lot).
Combatex said he would stop being a dick. That certainly didn't stop him. I can say I'll stop a lot of things, but that's no reason to go easy on me.
On February 12 2013 00:54 moskonia wrote: Cheating on the Ladder is horrible, but it doesn't make him a "scum", seriously he confessed and said he will not do it again so I think some of you guys are too harsh. I am not saying he should go unpunished, but if he never cheated on tournaments then he should not get more than 6 months ban imo (and even that is kinda a lot).
Combatex said he would stop being a dick. That certainly didn't stop him. I can say I'll stop a lot of things, but that's no reason to go easy on me.
Umm. Just because CombatEX wasted his second chances doesn't mean that second chances are a bad idea. It means that they're not always going to be used properly.
On February 12 2013 01:35 Wpgstevo wrote: Its funny to me that some devil's advocates here are lamenting the desire of posters in this thread to have Daisuki banned for life.
News flash: The posters on TL who don't have the power to enforce a ban are aware of this fact.
What they are saying is that they hope the tournament organizers ban him. Since this community is comprised of pros and fans alike, it doesn't seem unreasonable to express that desire in this thread. Obviously they don't have the power to enforce, but they know that already.
Redemption and/or forgiveness are down the line, not something to discuss before he even has occasion to uninstall the hacks...
And I guess you figure that when we sentence someone to imprisonment, we should just not bother talking about their parole eligibility until X amount of years after the crime, right? Wrong. There's a reason we say "sentenced to 25 years with no possibility of parole until Y years." Everything should be sorted immediately. Daisuki not hacking in tournaments should mitigate his sentence somewhat, since he didn't strictly speaking conspire to acquire money by hacking, which would be a lot worse than what he did do. Not that what he did isn't bad, mind you, but it's less bad than hacking in a tournament.
The real problem I have wit this thread is that people are, once again, opting for the most extreme punishments available to them by default. There should be a code of conduct with reasonable punitive measures, not maximum punishment every time anyone does anything bad. This goes for all those PR incidents with Destiny, Stephano, etc, as well. The punishment needs to fit the crime. We don't sentence people to life in prison for stealing, for example.
I'd say ban his accounts, shun him from TL, and basically not give him a platform for awhile. I don't think it's necessary to ban him from competing in offline tournaments. But from online tournaments? One year ban at minimum.
And how exactly would this ban from tournaments be enforced?
On February 12 2013 00:54 moskonia wrote: Cheating on the Ladder is horrible, but it doesn't make him a "scum", seriously he confessed and said he will not do it again so I think some of you guys are too harsh. I am not saying he should go unpunished, but if he never cheated on tournaments then he should not get more than 6 months ban imo (and even that is kinda a lot).
Combatex said he would stop being a dick. That certainly didn't stop him. I can say I'll stop a lot of things, but that's no reason to go easy on me.
That isn't even comparable. Combaex got a second chance. Even two and three, maybe more. This is a first time offense. Don't be so quick in judging. Not everyone change, but far from everyone never change.
On February 12 2013 01:35 Wpgstevo wrote: Its funny to me that some devil's advocates here are lamenting the desire of posters in this thread to have Daisuki banned for life.
News flash: The posters on TL who don't have the power to enforce a ban are aware of this fact.
What they are saying is that they hope the tournament organizers ban him. Since this community is comprised of pros and fans alike, it doesn't seem unreasonable to express that desire in this thread. Obviously they don't have the power to enforce, but they know that already.
Redemption and/or forgiveness are down the line, not something to discuss before he even has occasion to uninstall the hacks...
And I guess you figure that when we sentence someone to imprisonment, we should just not bother talking about their parole eligibility until X amount of years after the crime, right? Wrong. There's a reason we say "sentenced to 25 years with no possibility of parole until Y years." Everything should be sorted immediately. Daisuki not hacking in tournaments should mitigate his sentence somewhat, since he didn't strictly speaking conspire to acquire money by hacking, which would be a lot worse than what he did do. Not that what he did isn't bad, mind you, but it's less bad than hacking in a tournament.
The real problem I have wit this thread is that people are, once again, opting for the most extreme punishments available to them by default. There should be a code of conduct with reasonable punitive measures, not maximum punishment every time anyone does anything bad. This goes for all those PR incidents with Destiny, Stephano, etc, as well. The punishment needs to fit the crime. We don't sentence people to life in prison for stealing, for example.
I'd say ban his accounts, shun him from TL, and basically not give him a platform for awhile. I don't think it's necessary to ban him from competing in offline tournaments. But from online tournaments? One year ban at minimum.
And how exactly would this ban from tournaments be enforced?
They won't really be. That is all up to the tournament. However I think that every tournament with some statues will listen to the community in this and at least wait for things to calm down before they let him in to a tournament again. The backlash from the community should be enough.
i'm loling at the srs bsns off topic nerd debate going down, i should have known that was the most likely thing to find 39 pages deep on an obvious mh thread with little left to confirm xD enjoy mighty combat, nerdz
Lol @ people calling for a permaban. Hope you guys never get called for jury duty. And I'd hope you won't have the same attitude towards your kids. Excessive punishment is not effective.
On February 12 2013 00:54 moskonia wrote: Cheating on the Ladder is horrible, but it doesn't make him a "scum", seriously he confessed and said he will not do it again so I think some of you guys are too harsh. I am not saying he should go unpunished, but if he never cheated on tournaments then he should not get more than 6 months ban imo (and even that is kinda a lot).
Combatex said he would stop being a dick. That certainly didn't stop him. I can say I'll stop a lot of things, but that's no reason to go easy on me.
That isn't even comparable. Combaex got a second chance. Even two and three, maybe more. This is a first time offense. Don't be so quick in judging. Not everyone change, but far from everyone never change.
On February 12 2013 01:35 Wpgstevo wrote: Its funny to me that some devil's advocates here are lamenting the desire of posters in this thread to have Daisuki banned for life.
News flash: The posters on TL who don't have the power to enforce a ban are aware of this fact.
What they are saying is that they hope the tournament organizers ban him. Since this community is comprised of pros and fans alike, it doesn't seem unreasonable to express that desire in this thread. Obviously they don't have the power to enforce, but they know that already.
Redemption and/or forgiveness are down the line, not something to discuss before he even has occasion to uninstall the hacks...
And I guess you figure that when we sentence someone to imprisonment, we should just not bother talking about their parole eligibility until X amount of years after the crime, right? Wrong. There's a reason we say "sentenced to 25 years with no possibility of parole until Y years." Everything should be sorted immediately. Daisuki not hacking in tournaments should mitigate his sentence somewhat, since he didn't strictly speaking conspire to acquire money by hacking, which would be a lot worse than what he did do. Not that what he did isn't bad, mind you, but it's less bad than hacking in a tournament.
The real problem I have wit this thread is that people are, once again, opting for the most extreme punishments available to them by default. There should be a code of conduct with reasonable punitive measures, not maximum punishment every time anyone does anything bad. This goes for all those PR incidents with Destiny, Stephano, etc, as well. The punishment needs to fit the crime. We don't sentence people to life in prison for stealing, for example.
I'd say ban his accounts, shun him from TL, and basically not give him a platform for awhile. I don't think it's necessary to ban him from competing in offline tournaments. But from online tournaments? One year ban at minimum.
And how exactly would this ban from tournaments be enforced?
They won't really be. That is all up to the tournament. However I think that every tournament with some statues will listen to the community in this and at least wait for things to calm down before they let him in to a tournament again. The backlash from the community should be enough.
Imo, Daisuki, among everybody else that reads this forum, knows sees happens to people when they get caught cheating. That should be enough of a warning to anybody. If hes got the balls to do it anyway, he deserves nothing less than a ban. It's not like he didn't know it was wrong, if he thinks "well apparently I can get away with it so I'll just keep doing it", I can't see why anybody could side with him.
On February 12 2013 00:54 moskonia wrote: Cheating on the Ladder is horrible, but it doesn't make him a "scum", seriously he confessed and said he will not do it again so I think some of you guys are too harsh. I am not saying he should go unpunished, but if he never cheated on tournaments then he should not get more than 6 months ban imo (and even that is kinda a lot).
Combatex said he would stop being a dick. That certainly didn't stop him. I can say I'll stop a lot of things, but that's no reason to go easy on me.
Umm. Just because CombatEX wasted his second chances doesn't mean that second chances are a bad idea. It means that they're not always going to be used properly.
He was given multiple, just like many of the other hackers from BW/years passed. One second chance is fine, you shouldn't get another.
Stop comparing this to imprisonment, they're completely different. There's your life at stake when you murder/steal or whatever. Here, you sabotage your sc2 career. You can move on with your life and get a real job, perhaps go back to school. It's not like Daisuki is a big name that many people will care about if he gets banned (objectively speaking, I'm not saying that to be rude).
On February 12 2013 01:40 Shiori wrote: And I guess you figure that when we sentence someone to imprisonment, we should just not bother talking about their parole eligibility until X amount of years after the crime, right? Wrong. There's a reason we say "sentenced to 25 years with no possibility of parole until Y years." Everything should be sorted immediately. Daisuki not hacking in tournaments should mitigate his sentence somewhat, since he didn't strictly speaking conspire to acquire money by hacking, which would be a lot worse than what he did do. Not that what he did isn't bad, mind you, but it's less bad than hacking in a tournament.
The real problem I have wit this thread is that people are, once again, opting for the most extreme punishments available to them by default. There should be a code of conduct with reasonable punitive measures, not maximum punishment every time anyone does anything bad. This goes for all those PR incidents with Destiny, Stephano, etc, as well. The punishment needs to fit the crime. We don't sentence people to life in prison for stealing, for example.
I'd say ban his accounts, shun him from TL, and basically not give him a platform for awhile. I don't think it's necessary to ban him from competing in offline tournaments. But from online tournaments? One year ban at minimum.
Who is issuing a sentence?
That is where this breaks down. There is no sentence. There is only the opinions of people who either want to see him, or don't.
Everything is not going to be "sorted out immediately" because no one here has the authority or ability to make such a sentence.
All people are expressing is that they don't want to see this player again due to his cheating. That's it.
If you feel differently, fine. Organizers will decide for themselves if they want him, based on whatever criteria they want.
But for me, and a number of others, cheating should be a ban from events - which ostensibly means simply that they want organizers to not invite him.
Stop acting like this is a trial or a sentencing hearing, its not. Its just a bunch of individuals expressing whether they want to see him again, or not.
I remember seeing him at WCS and not knowing who he was, and since forgot about him ... but at the time i was thinking why is this not guy on a team? well ... i guess i see why. nice work remark.
On February 11 2013 10:01 Malpractice.248 wrote: My fav part is that he tweets, but doesnt show up here. Furthermore, says OTHERS hack and cheat (making it okay for him to do so? I guess, in his mind?) and on top of that, he claims to only have hacked for 2 weeks.
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
He can't show up here anymore because he's already banned
Why the hell would he get banned from the forum? That's a given that he shouldn't be allowed to be a pro/semipro-gamer anymore, but from TL as a video game forum?? Are you telling me that nobody on this forum ever used maphacks?
Have you ever heard of second chances? Everyone deserves one. That punishment is way too harsh at most he shouldn't be allowed to participate in major tournaments for 6-12 months
On February 12 2013 01:40 Shiori wrote: And I guess you figure that when we sentence someone to imprisonment, we should just not bother talking about their parole eligibility until X amount of years after the crime, right? Wrong. There's a reason we say "sentenced to 25 years with no possibility of parole until Y years." Everything should be sorted immediately. Daisuki not hacking in tournaments should mitigate his sentence somewhat, since he didn't strictly speaking conspire to acquire money by hacking, which would be a lot worse than what he did do. Not that what he did isn't bad, mind you, but it's less bad than hacking in a tournament.
The real problem I have wit this thread is that people are, once again, opting for the most extreme punishments available to them by default. There should be a code of conduct with reasonable punitive measures, not maximum punishment every time anyone does anything bad. This goes for all those PR incidents with Destiny, Stephano, etc, as well. The punishment needs to fit the crime. We don't sentence people to life in prison for stealing, for example.
I'd say ban his accounts, shun him from TL, and basically not give him a platform for awhile. I don't think it's necessary to ban him from competing in offline tournaments. But from online tournaments? One year ban at minimum.
Who is issuing a sentence?
That is where this breaks down. There is no sentence. There is only the opinions of people who either want to see him, or don't.
Everything is not going to be "sorted out immediately" because no one here has the authority or ability to make such a sentence.
All people are expressing is that they don't want to see this player again due to his cheating. That's it.
If you feel differently, fine. Organizers will decide for themselves if they want him, based on whatever criteria they want.
But for me, and a number of others, cheating should be a ban from events - which ostensibly means simply that they want organizers to not invite him.
Stop acting like this is a trial or a sentencing hearing, its not. Its just a bunch of individuals expressing whether they want to see him again, or not.
It's understood that this isn't a trial, and of course tournaments can bow to community pressure and permanently ban him from competing. What we are saying is that this would be an awful system for resolving these kind of disputes, and is completely unbefitting of a professional sport. It would be a fundamentally bad thing for the eSports community, regardless of whether or not a permanent ban was warranted in this situation.
And again, it is worth pointing out that other players have done similar things and not faced such extreme punishment as is being proposed. If you can't rationally explain why this case is different then you can't reasonably expect a different punishment. If you think that TT1 should also be retroactively banned then I guess I can't fault you, but I'm more inclined to believe that the prevalent view that daisuki deserves a permaban is more of an emotional response. Frankly I kind of agree with daisukis sentiment that a lot of the anger is based on people's pent up frustration about the ladder system that is being unloaded onto him. After all, nobody with serious ladder anxiety wants to hear that cheating on ladder "isn't that big of a deal".
And to the black/white minded folks here who think defending daisuki from your irrational outrage is somehow giving him and other hackers license to cheat or minimizing what he did, please understand something: it's possible for both of you to be wrong. Being against chopping off the hands of thieves doesn't make me pro-stealing.
It might not be the best system, but there is literally no alternative. So while it would be nice to have a governing body to make sure penalties for cheating are uniform, right now its up to the organizers.
In professional sports cheating is either a several year or lifetime ban. This is no different, other than the lack of a governing body to enforce. The infraction is the same. If you think cheating on ladder is okay, how about cheating in your peewee hockey team? Its just kids sports after all. Or how about the local chess club? Its not like big money is on the line.
Guess what, you cheat in my local chess club, you are gone for good. It doesn't matter why you did it or how big or small the impact is.
Professional sports have just as harsh or harsher punishments for this type of offense, pretending like several year or lifetime bans from sports don't exist is disingenuous.
A known cheater should only be allowed to play in online tournaments, when he can record his playing via camera and send the footage to the tournament admins so they can guarantee 100% that he played straight up, if not he should get a loss and is out of that tournament. Offline there is a guarantee he should not be able to cheat. Also a 3 month ban or some punishment for a certain timeframe should be given.
The fact that he was found cheating should be enough that the quote "not guilty until proven" is not relevant anymore for him. He has to proof now, after found out cheating "once", that he doesnt cheat by filming and sending it to the tournament admins or only playing offline events. Its like being "auf Bewährung" in Germany where u have to show up for control and so on.
The point in we don't have proof that he cheated in online tournaments should no longer be right, it's like Tour de France (Lance Armtsrong, Jan Ullrich or other), everyone said he isn't doping or getting an advantage over another cause they knew others also used doping to win.
Just my Thoughts (sry for the wrong spellings, if there are some).
On February 12 2013 06:06 Wpgstevo wrote: It might not be the best system, but there is literally no alternative. So while it would be nice to have a governing body to make sure penalties for cheating are uniform, right now its up to the organizers.
In professional sports cheating is either a several year or lifetime ban. This is no different, other than the lack of a governing body to enforce. The infraction is the same. If you think cheating on ladder is okay, how about cheating in your peewee hockey team? Its just kids sports after all. Or how about the local chess club? Its not like big money is on the line.
Guess what, you cheat in my local chess club, you are gone for good. It doesn't matter why you did it or how big or small the impact is.
Professional sports have just as harsh or harsher punishments for this type of offense, pretending like several year or lifetime bans from sports don't exist is disingenuous.
I don't disagree with the fact that permanent bans exist in sports. It could reasonably be argued that cheating is an offense that deserves expulsion from the scene. However I think that it's much too severe of a punishment to be handed down in such an obviously biased and inconsistent manner even if that means an unrepentant cheater gets to keep playing. In that situation ultimately the problem is that the community doesn't have an adequate system to deal with transgressions, not that somebody cheated.
I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time.
On February 12 2013 06:40 YumYumGranola wrote: I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time.
i hope this happens and it creates some more incentive for putting effort into creating a solid system that can root out hackers.
i think lifetime ban for any hacking is good. it's not difficult.
The problem is, we have a lot of upstanding community members and players who HAVE cheated in the past but have reformed, and a lifetime ban for current and/or future transgressors seems unfair in that light. This presents an issue; we either look unfair, or we reinforce the idea that most hackers seem to hold true; "hacking is only wrong when you get caught".
On February 12 2013 06:55 LF[Media] wrote: The problem is, we have a lot of upstanding community members and players who HAVE cheated in the past but have reformed, and a lifetime ban for current and/or future transgressors seems unfair in that light. This presents an issue; we either look unfair, or we reinforce the idea that most hackers seem to hold true; "hacking is only wrong when you get caught".
first of all when you make rules, it's not necessarily unfair to the people judged by previous rules in the past, in this scenario i don't think it is. secondly there's no need for us to be 'fair' to people who cheat.
edit: but there is a need to find rules that the community as a whole can agree on.
On February 12 2013 06:40 YumYumGranola wrote: I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time.
There is only one way this can possible work and that is a governing body like Kespa that controls everything.
On February 12 2013 06:40 YumYumGranola wrote: I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time.
There is only one way this can possible work and that is a governing body like Kespa that controls everything.
Or if Blizzard would require people to follow it before they can organize a tournament.
On February 12 2013 06:06 Wpgstevo wrote: It might not be the best system, but there is literally no alternative. So while it would be nice to have a governing body to make sure penalties for cheating are uniform, right now its up to the organizers.
In professional sports cheating is either a several year or lifetime ban. This is no different, other than the lack of a governing body to enforce. The infraction is the same. If you think cheating on ladder is okay, how about cheating in your peewee hockey team? Its just kids sports after all. Or how about the local chess club? Its not like big money is on the line.
Guess what, you cheat in my local chess club, you are gone for good. It doesn't matter why you did it or how big or small the impact is.
Professional sports have just as harsh or harsher punishments for this type of offense, pretending like several year or lifetime bans from sports don't exist is disingenuous.
I don't disagree with the fact that permanent bans exist in sports. It could reasonably be argued that cheating is an offense that deserves expulsion from the scene. However I think that it's much too severe of a punishment to be handed down in such an obviously biased and inconsistent manner even if that means an unrepentant cheater gets to keep playing. In that situation ultimately the problem is that the community doesn't have an adequate system to deal with transgressions, not that somebody cheated.
THing is that lifetime ban is ostensibly the hardest punishment that can be handed out. If you reserve your hardest punishment for a an offence like this, how are you going to give out even harder punishments to bigger offences? If you do not reserve the hardest punishment for the worse crimes, you're giving the worse and relatively minor crimes the same punishment.
Apart from that, this is like a lifetime ban from Gland Slams because you cheated in a friendly cup that was insignificant and had no monetary rewards, never going to happen.
I think it would be a very good thing if tournament organizers, teams, and players could come together to form an agreement on a set of professional standards that they would all adhere too. That includes behavior on the part of teams, organizers, and sponsors. All parties need to be able to be held more accountable, whether its players behavior, teams not meeting agreements, or tournaments and sponsors not paying bills on time.
Why? Can't tournament make their own rules? If a tournament organizer doesn't agree with a certain rule he or she should be free to abstain from using it.
The issue is the only way to force everyone to agree is to do it like KeSPA and every major sports regulating organ does it. They force tournaments and players to play by their rules because if you don't, they forbid their players to go to your tournament so it will always fail. Furthermore they require all tournaments to only allow players who have their licence. It's a very circular system:
- tournaments have to play by their rules or they won't allow their players to go there. - players have to play by their rules or they won't allow their tournaments to accept them.
That's the basic premise under which FIDE, NFL, FIFA, NBA, BDO, and KeSPA operate. It doesn't take a brain to realize that each and every one of those organizations is as corrupt as KeSPA. Power does that to people and there are no checks and balances here. I like a free market of competition more where tournaments are free to set their own rules, if they are unreasonable, players won't show up and people won't watch..
in his twitter posts all i see is "i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so"
On February 12 2013 23:46 myRZeth wrote: in his twitter posts all i see is "i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so"
sorry, but i think this is what he s thinking
Thats a very poor attitude to have; if I was caught hacking or something, I would be very apologetic and definitely never say "I dont regret it" lol And understand that it takes YEARS for people to accept you back in the community, its not something that can just happen 3 days after the fact. He'll be forgiven if he proves to be clean for over a year, but until then he deserves the harsh criticism coming his way.
Hackers in the past have been very sorry for their actions and EVENTUALLY were forgiven, they didnt say "I dont regret hacking" and expect to be accepted back a week later.
On February 12 2013 23:46 myRZeth wrote: in his twitter posts all i see is "i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so"
sorry, but i think this is what he s thinking
Thats a very poor attitude to have; if I was caught hacking or something, I would be very apologetic and definitely never say "I dont regret it" lol And understand that it takes YEARS for people to accept you back in the community, its not something that can just happen 3 days after the fact. He'll be forgiven if he proves to be clean for over a year, but until then he deserves the harsh criticism coming his way.
Hackers in the past have been very sorry for their actions and EVENTUALLY were forgiven, they didnt say "I dont regret hacking" and expect to be accepted back a week later.
From what i understand of the previous post that is more what the person is thinking Daisuki is saying rather then actually saying so i would take that with a gran of salt.
On February 13 2013 04:26 Sakray wrote: The worst part is that he was caught cheating, he admit it, asks after how many times he'll be "washed" from this, but keeps hacking.
TL made the right decision with the ban, and I don't think the term 'scum' is hyperbolic. Maphacking is toxic to this community and the game. It cannot be compared to any other misconduct. The worst outcome from this situation would be if anyone left this spectacle with the impression that maphacking will result in anything less than being permanently banned from every aspect of the community.
There are certain offenses in every sport or activity that result in a lifetime ban, and this needs to be one of them.
On February 12 2013 23:46 myRZeth wrote: in his twitter posts all i see is "i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so"
sorry, but i think this is what he s thinking
If thats true then it just shows how much of a scum bag he really is, ban was very much deserved.
On February 13 2013 08:55 iEchoic wrote: TL made the right decision with the ban, and I don't think the term 'scum' is hyperbolic. Maphacking is toxic to this community and the game. It cannot be compared to any other misconduct. The worst outcome from this situation would be if anyone left this spectacle with the impression that maphacking will result in anything less than being permanently banned from every aspect of the community.
There are certain offenses in every sport or activity that result in a lifetime ban, and this needs to be one of them.
Hacking goes against everything this community stands for, and I don't want to hear from this 'scum' ever again, and anyone who learns of this incident should take it as a warning that if you ever hack you will be caught and you will be exposed for what you are, and that will result and your permanent removal from the community.
On February 13 2013 09:06 SpecialistSc wrote: "i know i cheated, but others have also been forgiven, so whatever just forgive me too, i don t regret it, i just say so"
lol wow.. is this what he really said...?????
shamelessness to the maximum
He didn't say that, but it's a pretty good interpretation of his attitude according to what he's been posting on twitter imo.
On February 13 2013 08:55 iEchoic wrote: TL made the right decision with the ban, and I don't think the term 'scum' is hyperbolic. Maphacking is toxic to this community and the game. It cannot be compared to any other misconduct. The worst outcome from this situation would be if anyone left this spectacle with the impression that maphacking will result in anything less than being permanently banned from every aspect of the community.
There are certain offenses in every sport or activity that result in a lifetime ban, and this needs to be one of them.
and anyone who learns of this incident should take it as a warning that if you ever hack you will be caught
No you won't, the majority of hackers roam free and never get caught? Did you read the op? He blatantly made no effort whatsoever to cover suspicion. It's very easy to cover your tracks a modicum better and suddenly you're only 'suspicious' and the topic that accuses you gets rightfully locked because it's not conclusive and you can't just shame people based on suspicion. So this guy has an uncanny spider sense online? Well, he obviously always blind counters your mutas because he sees the subtle queues of your gas timing and the amount of lings you make is his defence.
The only two people thusfar caught for hacking in SC2 were both blatantly obvious and made no effort to cover their tracks. Unlike what some people want to believe, there is no connexion between lack of moral character and intelligence. Majority of hackers aren't stupid and cover their tracks better and will consequently never get caught. If you honestly think that Spades and Daisuki were the only ones you are being naïve.
On February 13 2013 09:33 Priest214 wrote: If he doesn't even have a repentant attitude to his cheating, a lifetime ban WOULD be good.
I think that's too harsh. in the end it doesn't matter if he has a repentant attitude. It's more important that a lot of people agree that he has only cheated recently - that's what should be a benefit for him.
It would be nice to hear something from him again. Maybe he should state what he plans on doing/what should happen according to him?
On February 13 2013 09:33 Priest214 wrote: If he doesn't even have a repentant attitude to his cheating, a lifetime ban WOULD be good.
I think that's too harsh. in the end it doesn't matter if he has a repentant attitude. It's more important that a lot of people agree that he has only cheated recently - that's what should be a benefit for him.
It would be nice to hear something from him again. Maybe he should state what he plans on doing/what should happen according to him?
i don't think the circumstances of it matter that much, and in this case i think the circumstances are pretty fucked up. if he hacked in a custom vs an ai, then ok. if he hacked on ladder vs other people to earn money from it, he's just a fucking scumbag. drop him in the garbage can, move on and let someone else who isn't a piece of shit take his place.
On February 13 2013 09:33 Priest214 wrote: If he doesn't even have a repentant attitude to his cheating, a lifetime ban WOULD be good.
I think that's too harsh. in the end it doesn't matter if he has a repentant attitude. It's more important that a lot of people agree that he has only cheated recently - that's what should be a benefit for him.
It would be nice to hear something from him again. Maybe he should state what he plans on doing/what should happen according to him?
i don't think the circumstances of it matter that much, and in this case i think the circumstances are pretty fucked up. if he hacked in a custom vs an ai, then ok. if he hacked on ladder vs other people to earn money from it, he's just a fucking scumbag. drop him in the garbage can, move on and let someone else who isn't a piece of shit take his place.
I don't think he should be banned for life. Everyone deserves a second chance IMO and the fact that he will have the word "hacker" attached to his name is a really hard punishment in itself. He didn't hack in any tournament AFAIK so I don't find it that big of a deal either and like someone said earlier in this thread that if we hand out the hardest possible punishment for stuff like this, what are we going to do with players who are violating even harder against the rules?
Also, while I agree with that his attitude is quite ridicolous, I don't think he should be punished any harder for it. Even if he wouldn't care he could simply act in a way that everyone wanted him to i.e. be super apologitic. Right now he is at least being honest about what he thinks.
On February 13 2013 09:33 Priest214 wrote: If he doesn't even have a repentant attitude to his cheating, a lifetime ban WOULD be good.
I think that's too harsh. in the end it doesn't matter if he has a repentant attitude. It's more important that a lot of people agree that he has only cheated recently - that's what should be a benefit for him.
It would be nice to hear something from him again. Maybe he should state what he plans on doing/what should happen according to him?
i don't think the circumstances of it matter that much, and in this case i think the circumstances are pretty fucked up. if he hacked in a custom vs an ai, then ok. if he hacked on ladder vs other people to earn money from it, he's just a fucking scumbag. drop him in the garbage can, move on and let someone else who isn't a piece of shit take his place.
Don't understand why people overreact to his case so much, we see hackers pop in your thread like 3-4 times a week. Put aside the fact he had 2nd place at WCS USA, I don't see why is case is different.
But yeah he got banned by Blizz (I think) and I don't think he's using TL so.. I guess that's it with him, people are just looking for a "Bouc émissaire" to blame when tbh it's just really easy to hack and there seems to be no response at all by the big guys (blizz) on the hundreds of hackers on the ladder -.-
edit: unless you are a known personality or a complete moron, it's really hard to detect hacks... but sc2 is so poorly coded it seems like they have no idea on how to prevent hacks e.e. Maybe they should hire one ~
How you know it is poorly coded? There are hacks for every esport game out there (or do you know a game where it is impossible to hack?), it is not about preventing hacks being available it is about detecting them.
The information about your opponent's units IS being transmitted to your PC. As long as that remains the case, hacks will exist. All it takes is a program to interpret memory.
Ban from TL, report to Blizzard (not that they will do anything but anyway..). Hopefully, he will not be able to play tournaments in the future. Let's move on to funnier things, no reason to spend time on scumbags.
On February 14 2013 18:22 ShotgunMike wrote: So, he admitted to be a hacker..
Ban from TL, report to Blizzard (not that they will do anything but anyway..). Hopefully, he will not be able to play tournaments in the future. Let's move on to funnier things, no reason to spend time on scumbags.
Blizzard already took action. Like, within a couple of days of the story breaking.
On February 14 2013 18:22 ShotgunMike wrote: So, he admitted to be a hacker..
Ban from TL, report to Blizzard (not that they will do anything but anyway..). Hopefully, he will not be able to play tournaments in the future. Let's move on to funnier things, no reason to spend time on scumbags.
Blizzard already took action. Like, within a couple of days of the story breaking.
Like, within the same day, less than 6 hours from the creation of this topic:
On February 09 2013 11:54 Cloaken wrote: Thanks again to the OP for this information. We were able to take some solid action based off of these details.
Please always remember you can report hacks directly to hacks@blizzard.com.
Good luck out there, and always remember to "Play Nice, Play Fair."
You are probably answering to a guy who obviously just glanced through the OP, commented on it once and then left the topic for good anyway.
If blizzard actually "took action" like they said then why are 2 of his accounts still in top 16 gm? Or many of the confirmed maphackers they claimed to have dealt with in the maphacker topic? They need to put those guys into their own bronze division like they did with all the drophackers back then...
On February 14 2013 18:24 ROOTFayth wrote: would people condemn him as much if he only had hacked in custom games, like Nexus Wars and shit
Is there an official ladder for Nexus Wars? He hacked deliberately to grab the GM #1 spot, not to troll some silver leaguers in custom games, I don't get your point.
On February 15 2013 00:02 TylerThaCreator wrote: If blizzard actually "took action" like they said then why are 2 of his accounts still in top 16 gm? Or many of the confirmed maphackers they claimed to have dealt with in the maphacker topic? They need to put those guys into their own bronze division like they did with all the drophackers back then...
Yeah I'm not really sure why ppl are saying Blizzard took action, the edrink accounts are still in GM.
On February 14 2013 18:24 ROOTFayth wrote: would people condemn him as much if he only had hacked in custom games, like Nexus Wars and shit
Cheating in anything, shows a lack of respect for your opponent, for the game, and despicable. It is worse than lying.
People should be upset, no one wants to play with cheaters in any game. Even if you play someone in Go-Fish and they cheat, you'd probably be upset that you wasted your time playing that person.
On February 15 2013 00:02 TylerThaCreator wrote: If blizzard actually "took action" like they said then why are 2 of his accounts still in top 16 gm? Or many of the confirmed maphackers they claimed to have dealt with in the maphacker topic? They need to put those guys into their own bronze division like they did with all the drophackers back then...
Yeah I'm not really sure why ppl are saying Blizzard took action, the edrink accounts are still in GM.
It takes 1 week of inaction to be demoted from GM. I think we have to wait since he cannot play on those accounts anymore.
On February 15 2013 00:02 TylerThaCreator wrote: If blizzard actually "took action" like they said then why are 2 of his accounts still in top 16 gm? Or many of the confirmed maphackers they claimed to have dealt with in the maphacker topic? They need to put those guys into their own bronze division like they did with all the drophackers back then...
Yeah I'm not really sure why ppl are saying Blizzard took action, the edrink accounts are still in GM.
It takes 1 week of inaction to be demoted from GM. I think we have to wait since he cannot play on those accounts anymore.
On February 15 2013 00:02 TylerThaCreator wrote: If blizzard actually "took action" like they said then why are 2 of his accounts still in top 16 gm? Or many of the confirmed maphackers they claimed to have dealt with in the maphacker topic? They need to put those guys into their own bronze division like they did with all the drophackers back then...
Yeah I'm not really sure why ppl are saying Blizzard took action, the edrink accounts are still in GM.
It takes 1 week of inaction to be demoted from GM. I think we have to wait since he cannot play on those accounts anymore.
what the fuck is this? Is there a reason why you post a 2006 youtube video with no text?
Anyways yeah I can't believe MLG has no idea Daisuki just got accused of hacking. I'm sure he would be smart enough to know not to hack for this particular set of games (cause he knows they probably will be inspected afterwards), but still I expected Major Leagues to be more careful e.e
what the fuck is this? Is there a reason why you post a 2006 youtube video with no text?
Anyways yeah I can't believe MLG has no idea Daisuki just got accused of hacking. I'm sure he would be smart enough to know not to hack for this particular set of games (cause he knows they probably will be inspected afterwards), but still I expected Major Leagues to be more careful e.e
edit: spoilered dumb-ass video
Not only accused but proven to be. He also admitted it.
On February 15 2013 00:02 TylerThaCreator wrote: If blizzard actually "took action" like they said then why are 2 of his accounts still in top 16 gm? Or many of the confirmed maphackers they claimed to have dealt with in the maphacker topic? They need to put those guys into their own bronze division like they did with all the drophackers back then...
Yeah I'm not really sure why ppl are saying Blizzard took action, the edrink accounts are still in GM.
It takes 1 week of inaction to be demoted from GM. I think we have to wait since he cannot play on those accounts anymore.
How do you know he can't play on them?
Look at their match history
He may just be choosing not to play on the accounts though. You would think Blizzard would ban the accounts outright and move them to bronze like they've done with other hackers.
what the fuck is this? Is there a reason why you post a 2006 youtube video with no text?
Anyways yeah I can't believe MLG has no idea Daisuki just got accused of hacking. I'm sure he would be smart enough to know not to hack for this particular set of games (cause he knows they probably will be inspected afterwards), but still I expected Major Leagues to be more careful e.e
edit: spoilered dumb-ass video
Take a guess. You seem a little dense, but I'm sure you can see his intentions.
what the fuck is this? Is there a reason why you post a 2006 youtube video with no text?
Anyways yeah I can't believe MLG has no idea Daisuki just got accused of hacking. I'm sure he would be smart enough to know not to hack for this particular set of games (cause he knows they probably will be inspected afterwards), but still I expected Major Leagues to be more careful e.e
edit: spoilered dumb-ass video
Seems pretty obvious why he posted the video. Not quite sure why he was warned or why you are raging.
I think MLG has to do their own investigation into this and like any organization, they will take their sweet time doing it.
what the fuck is this? Is there a reason why you post a 2006 youtube video with no text?
Anyways yeah I can't believe MLG has no idea Daisuki just got accused of hacking. I'm sure he would be smart enough to know not to hack for this particular set of games (cause he knows they probably will be inspected afterwards), but still I expected Major Leagues to be more careful e.e
edit: spoilered dumb-ass video
Seems pretty obvious why he posted the video. Not quite sure why he was warned or why you are raging.
I think MLG has to do their own investigation into this and like any organization, they will take their sweet time doing it.
On February 14 2013 18:24 ROOTFayth wrote: would people condemn him as much if he only had hacked in custom games, like Nexus Wars and shit
Cheating in anything, shows a lack of respect for your opponent, for the game, and despicable. It is worse than lying.
People should be upset, no one wants to play with cheaters in any game. Even if you play someone in Go-Fish and they cheat, you'd probably be upset that you wasted your time playing that person.
Omg.. When you said Go-Fish I about lost it. Thx for the gr8 laugh and I agree with you 100%
I continue to support Daisuki. I've watched him play enough to know that he is no Spades even if he did wrong here on ladder. OP says how his only account he streams on is low-GM, but in the past (for a couple years) he regularly streamed games from his top-8 GM account that often was at #1.
A shame it had to come to this, but I hope cooler minds will prevail: Ladder and real tournaments are two different things and Daisuki has already shown what a good player he is.
Thanks for your streaming Daisuki, my Zerg play in SC2 (I mained Zerg from release until maybe four months ago) benefited so much from your stream. Fighting!
what the fuck is this? Is there a reason why you post a 2006 youtube video with no text?
Anyways yeah I can't believe MLG has no idea Daisuki just got accused of hacking. I'm sure he would be smart enough to know not to hack for this particular set of games (cause he knows they probably will be inspected afterwards), but still I expected Major Leagues to be more careful e.e
edit: spoilered dumb-ass video
Take a guess. You seem a little dense, but I'm sure you can see his intentions.
On February 15 2013 13:50 pigmanbear wrote: I continue to support Daisuki. I've watched him play enough to know that he is no Spades even if he did wrong here on ladder. OP says how his only account he streams on is low-GM, but in the past (for a couple years) he regularly streamed games from his top-8 GM account that often was at #1.
A shame it had to come to this, but I hope cooler minds will prevail: Ladder and real tournaments are two different things and Daisuki has already shown what a good player he is.
Thanks for your streaming Daisuki, my Zerg play in SC2 (I mained Zerg from release until maybe four months ago) benefited so much from your stream. Fighting!
You've been corrupted by a corruptor. Shame on you sir, please increase your morality to an adult level, instead of supporting proven cheaters.
I would let him play in it. I would however analyze his play afterwards and if it seems questionable, I would give the win to Goswser. I find it disgusting that he cheated but I don't mind second chances as well.
Whatever MLG decides, people won't be happy with their decision. I hope they know that lol
I would let him play in it. I would however analyze his play afterwards and if it seems questionable, I would give the win to Goswser. I find it disgusting that he cheated but I don't mind second chances as well.
Whatever MLG decides, people won't be happy with their decision. I hope they know that lol
If it were an open bracket sort of thing I would agree with you. But since it's an invitational I think not inviting him to play seems pretty fair... More than letting him play and then not awarding him the win if it seems suspicious.
I would let him play in it. I would however analyze his play afterwards and if it seems questionable, I would give the win to Goswser. I find it disgusting that he cheated but I don't mind second chances as well.
Whatever MLG decides, people won't be happy with their decision. I hope they know that lol
Although I am for second chances as well. But I think for this case, it is just too soon. I am not sure what the 'appropriate' time for it. But right after the incident just doesn't sit well with me.
I would let him play in it. I would however analyze his play afterwards and if it seems questionable, I would give the win to Goswser. I find it disgusting that he cheated but I don't mind second chances as well.
Whatever MLG decides, people won't be happy with their decision. I hope they know that lol
I don't think most people are actually worried about him hacking in a tournament.
It just seems like allowing him to participate right after he was caught map hacking (ladder or not) isn't right. Daisuki should be punished, he seemed absolutely remorseless. He should get a mandatory vacation from tournaments, maybe it will give him a different perspective on hacking.
i hope mlg will do the right thing here. it would set a sad precedence if a guy who hacked on ladder for money against a lot of the same people who actually watch mlg's tournament is allowed to play in them.
If he hacked to get his skill to the level where MLG invited him then surely he is being rewarded for hacking and taking up a spot of someone who actually deserves it.
On February 15 2013 19:45 aka_star wrote: If he hacked to get his skill to the level where MLG invited him then surely he is being rewarded for hacking and taking up a spot of someone who actually deserves it.
On February 15 2013 13:50 pigmanbear wrote: I continue to support Daisuki. I've watched him play enough to know that he is no Spades even if he did wrong here on ladder. OP says how his only account he streams on is low-GM, but in the past (for a couple years) he regularly streamed games from his top-8 GM account that often was at #1.
A shame it had to come to this, but I hope cooler minds will prevail: Ladder and real tournaments are two different things and Daisuki has already shown what a good player he is.
Thanks for your streaming Daisuki, my Zerg play in SC2 (I mained Zerg from release until maybe four months ago) benefited so much from your stream. Fighting!
You've been corrupted by a corruptor. Shame on you sir, please increase your morality to an adult level, instead of supporting proven cheaters.
What does that even mean, "corrupted by a corruptor?" Not sure what this "sir" and "adult" stuff is other than a sure indicator that you're probably very young. Morality is not some objective thing that you "increase."
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
He said two weeks right? That is assuming we trust him, because he does really seem like a trustworthy kind of guy. His cheating did matter:
1. He wasted other peoples time while they were training. 2. Ladder is a reflection of invites and such. Sponsors can also come from ladder ranking. His hacking directly and indirectly lent him monetary value.
I don't like him being in MLG, and I hope that they do something about it.
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
He said two weeks right? That is assuming we trust him, because he does really seem like a trustworthy kind of guy. His cheating did matter:
1. He wasted other peoples time while they were training. 2. Ladder is a reflection of invites and such. Sponsors can also come from ladder ranking. His hacking directly and indirectly lent him monetary value.
I don't like him being in MLG, and I hope that they do something about it.
Nobody denies that cheating on ladder is immoral. But your second point doesn't have much weight: There aren't going to be tournament invites based on ladder ranking in the final month of WoL's real existence. It sounds to me like NITRIX had some crazy demand that daisuki get more accounts into GM to promote their brand (this has always been their thing) and he cheated to not lose the sponsorship. I believe him when he talks about physical problems he was having after WCG. It's the intersection of an immature business decision and an even more immature, unsportsmanlike decision by daisuki. But it's just ladder, and at the end of a mostly dead game, no less.
i think it sets an extremely poor precedence for an organization within a sport to not only allow a player who has been caught and has admitted to cheating because he thought it a worthwhile venture, but to actually invite him to a tournament. there are plenty of other NA players of comparable caliber that don't cheat.
when you set an example where there are absolutely no repercussions for cheating it probably has a bad influence on a lot of members of the community. in addition it is a slap to the face of all the people who has to face this menace on a weekly basis on ladder.
a lack of a clear stand against hacking / cheating from the bigger organizations in the starcraft 2 industry will be hurting our community in the long run.
personally i don't think i will stand for it if mlg goes through with it. for me would be a principal matter. maybe one of the few principles that i am currently aware that i have. (aka they could have 1 less potential viewer, oh noes).
On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote: I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
i don't think there's much room for interpretation of his motive.
On February 16 2013 00:19 Nekovivie wrote: So did he MH on ladder to get higher rank to procure an invite, or was he just MH for shits n giggles?
Bad either way, for sure, but the former is definitely not forgivable.
He did it to appease a sponsor when he was not in shape to compete.
or simplified: for monetary gain.
That is too reductionist. What would you have him do? You would have him lose what keeps putting food on the table for him because he MH-ed on ladder? This isn't like Spades or previous hackers that hacked in tournaments, this has been occuring for 2 weeks and only on ladder. The sponsor asked him to do it, it put him in a bind, but he doesn't have the integrity to necessarily care about ladder. Just boiling it down to monetary gain is way overboard on the reductions.
Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
i don't agree. the reason he hacked on ladder was monetary gain. and yes, there is a context, but speculating about the context is pointless now, because in my eyes Daisuki now has 0 integrity.
edit: i don't agree with docvoc, but i completely agree with gowswer. again in my eyes Daisuki now has 0 integrity, and when a hacker says he only hacked for this long because of this and that, it is in my experience complete bullshit 100% of the time. check the gm / master hacker thread for reference.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
He got caught cheating. There is enough suspicion to toss those ""ideas"" around.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
There is nothing to prevent him from hacking against me in an online bo5 though. And it would be very very hard to prove if he just hacks to ensure he is always safe and always drones fully.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
He's not theory crafting about Daisuki having no integrity, it's kind of obvious he has none based on the fact he hacked on ladder... I mean for God's sake Goswser is not saying he hacked in online tour for sure, but it's a possibility for sure. I think he's right, if you really want to hide and make it less obvious, it's fairly easy. All he would need is production tab and with zerg, you only need to know when you're safe to drone to get a huge advantage in some scenarios so... Kind of hard to prove.
I wrote before in this thread that we shouldn't make a big deal out of this, cause I assumed he would lay low for a while, but if he's still competing, it just feels wrong.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
There is nothing to prevent him from hacking against me in an online bo5 though. And it would be very very hard to prove if he just hacks to ensure he is always safe and always drones fully.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Suppose I am a convicted murderer. Then suppose one of my friends is murdered. Is it right to punish me for that murder, too? Certainly not. To be suspicious, certainly, but to act in the same way as if I had committed the crime definitively is unjustified.
@shiori why make poor analogies, when instead you can talk about the matter at hand directly. it's not about murder it's about playing online tournaments for money vs a guy who is a known hacker. clearly you'd rather play people who is NOT a known hacker.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
There is nothing to prevent him from hacking against me in an online bo5 though. And it would be very very hard to prove if he just hacks to ensure he is always safe and always drones fully.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Suppose I am a convicted murderer. Then suppose one of my friends is murdered. Is it right to punish me for that murder, too? Certainly not. To be suspicious, certainly, but to act in the same way as if I had committed the crime definitively is unjustified.
... That analogy lol
Also, he has been proven guilty of map hacking. Just not in online tournaments (yet). We don't know for sure if he did, the point is just that since there's no way to tell (if he is careful enough) if he is hacking or not, it ruins the competition to have a player like him in high level brackets.
On February 16 2013 01:05 nunez wrote: @shiori why make poor analogies, when instead you can talk about the matter at hand directly. it's not about murder it's about playing online tournaments for money vs a guy who is a known hacker. clearly you'd rather play people who is NOT a known hacker.
I don't disagree, I'm just trying to add a little perspective. He should be banned from online tournies.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Who's to say he doesn't kick kittens either? Proving a negative is impossible and your idea here is really off-base and silly.
On February 16 2013 01:05 nunez wrote: @shiori why make poor analogies, when instead you can talk about the matter at hand directly. it's not about murder it's about playing online tournaments for money vs a guy who is a known hacker. clearly you'd rather play people who is NOT a known hacker.
I don't disagree, I'm just trying to add a little perspective. He should be banned from online tournies.
ok, that is fair and probably wise. perspective is always good.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Who's to say he doesn't kick kittens either? Proving a negative is impossible and your idea here is really off-base and silly.
a top level player playing with a production tab on is close to impossible to detect. when playing an online tournament vs an opponent, the reason you are not going around being paranoid is probably because you TRUST your other player to play a fair game. there's really nothing else you can do.
how can you trust a player that has admitted to hacking?
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
There is nothing to prevent him from hacking against me in an online bo5 though. And it would be very very hard to prove if he just hacks to ensure he is always safe and always drones fully.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Suppose I am a convicted murderer. Then suppose one of my friends is murdered. Is it right to punish me for that murder, too? Certainly not. To be suspicious, certainly, but to act in the same way as if I had committed the crime definitively is unjustified.
... That analogy lol
Also, he has been proven guilty of map hacking. Just not in online tournaments (yet). We don't know for sure if he did, the point is just that since there's no way to tell (if he is careful enough) if he is hacking or not, it ruins the competition to have a player like him in high level brackets.
That's besides the point and you commit logical errors. If there were some evidence of Gosu User's claim, then yes, you could say "this guy has history, we lean towards guilty." But that is very different from throwing random assertions in the air.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Who's to say he doesn't kick kittens either? Proving a negative is impossible and your idea here is really off-base and silly.
a top level player playing with a production tab on is close to impossible to detect. when playing an online tournament vs an opponent, the reason you are not going around being paranoid is probably because you TRUST your other player to play a fair game. there's really nothing else you can do.
how can you trust a player that has admitted to hacking?
I don't know, why was Dragon in IPL? Etc. etc. At least daisuki's abuse was on ladder and not in a tournament. KawaiiRice, TT1, Dragon, LastShadow have all cheated in real competitive events. I think that's much, much worse than on ladder, and for a short time at that.
Has Daisuke said anything about this thread yet? I mean there's probably not much to say given this looks so conclusive, but I do want to see his response nonetheless.
On February 16 2013 01:24 TAMinator wrote: Has Daisuke said anything about this thread yet? I mean there's probably not much to say given this looks so conclusive, but I do want to see his response nonetheless.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
mouzIllusion wrote Someone said shared account w/ daisuki. Apparently he hacked on it before.
Yea, before that he always played on vVv account. There's no way the prior activity on the NITRIX could have been his own unless he never slept at night.
mouzIllusion wrote Someone said shared account w/ daisuki. Apparently he hacked on it before.
Yea, before that he always played on vVv account. There's no way the prior activity on the NITRIX could have been his own unless he never slept at night.
no need to dismiss it yet. maybe illusion will chime in.
edit:
SyNc` wrote Its daisuki. Playstyle matches and he streams games on that account.
mouzIllusion wrote Someone said shared account w/ daisuki. Apparently he hacked on it before.
Yea, before that he always played on vVv account. There's no way the prior activity on the NITRIX could have been his own unless he never slept at night.
no need to dismiss it yet. maybe illusion will chime in.
SyNc` wrote Its daisuki. Playstyle matches and he streams games on that account.
Then you didn't read the thread. He used this account heavily after NITRIX gave it to him, as well as a host of other NITRIX accounts. If you've watched him stream, you see he'd spend his time boosting accounts and such for money. I really doubt on top of that, maintaining his vVv account, school, etc. he was also playing thousands of games, portrait farming, and dropping MMR to troll, long before he was even sponsored by NITRIX. More than likely they took some kid/employee's account and used the free name change on it for him.
mouzIllusion wrote Someone said shared account w/ daisuki. Apparently he hacked on it before.
Yea, before that he always played on vVv account. There's no way the prior activity on the NITRIX could have been his own unless he never slept at night.
no need to dismiss it yet. maybe illusion will chime in.
edit:
SyNc` wrote Its daisuki. Playstyle matches and he streams games on that account.
Then you didn't read the thread. He used this account heavily after NITRIX gave it to him, as well as a host of other NITRIX accounts. If you've watched him stream, you see he'd spend his time boosting accounts and such for money. I really doubt on top of that, maintaining his vVv account, school, etc. he was also playing thousands of games, portrait farming, and dropping MMR to troll, long before he was even sponsored by NITRIX. More than likely they took some kid/employee's account and used the free name change on it for him.
at one time a top gm zerg named NITRIXENERGY, two people say it's daisuki. i'm still gonna wait for more info, but to me it seems... kinda obvious. shared account that daisuki played on. maybe we can find some reps.
On February 16 2013 01:39 nunez wrote: so it is him.
Nobody ever doubted that ... but I doubt your reading comprehension.
you said there's no way the activity prior could have been him, but clearly that's what it looks like. look... i hate to post it again but:
In the past 5 seasons hes been Diamond, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Platinum in 1v1 and now out of nowhere hes the #2 GM with roughly a 3:1 ratio?
Its daisuki. Playstyle matches and he streams games on that account.
Someone said shared account w/ daisuki. Apparently he hacked on it before.
all of this in march 2012. then two months later he 'signs' with NITRIX.
edit: are you Daisuki's biggest fan? you know quite a lot about him. there is a possibility that whoever shared the account with daisuki was who illusion was referring to, but we'll have to wait and see.
On February 16 2013 00:54 nunez wrote: btw, there could something pretty fishy with NITRIXenergy going on here.
what i have been told per mail is pretty peculiar considering the actual circumstances.
Let me get this. So, Peter Yoo lied to his sponsors that there are people who made accounts with exactly same names (Nitrix) as his and hacked in order to frame him?
Adding that to the fact he cheated and showed very little remorse, why should we believe anything this guy says?
On February 16 2013 01:39 nunez wrote: so it is him.
Nobody ever doubted that ... but I doubt your reading comprehension.
you said there's no way the activity prior could have been him, but clearly that's what it looks like. look... i hate to post it again but:
In the past 5 seasons hes been Diamond, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Platinum in 1v1 and now out of nowhere hes the #2 GM with roughly a 3:1 ratio?
Its daisuki. Playstyle matches and he streams games on that account.
Someone said shared account w/ daisuki. Apparently he hacked on it before.
all of this in march 2012. then two months later he 'signs' with NITRIX.
edit: are you Daisuki's biggest fan? you know quite a lot about him.
That doesn't explain how he was #2 at a lan event that had refs.
am i saying he is a bad player?
edit:
ironic daisuki quote from spades hacking thread: All i have to say is, i've been accused of map hacking AND I DONT so whoever is throwing accusations out there better have great evidence backing it up
On February 16 2013 00:54 nunez wrote: btw, there could something pretty fishy with NITRIXenergy going on here.
what i have been told per mail is pretty peculiar considering the actual circumstances.
Let me get this. So, Peter Yoo lied to his sponsors that there are people who made accounts with exactly same names (Nitrix) as his and hacked in order to frame him?
Adding that to the fact he cheated and showed very little remorse, why should we believe anything this guy says?
well, that's one possibility.
what i think is more likely is that he wasn't lying in the chat depicted, and that he was actually playing with 'his multi billionaire sponsor', that is, his sponsor is well aware of his hacking and is hacking himself. and that the guy writing the NITRIX mail is lying.
this also could explain the way he words himself in his 'apology post', but this is wild speculation on my part: "I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time."
On February 16 2013 01:43 nunez wrote: edit: are you Daisuki's biggest fan? you know quite a lot about him.
When kids pull out the ad hominem, you know you've won.
honest question. how do you know all this.
Then you didn't read the thread. He used this account heavily after NITRIX gave it to him, as well as a host of other NITRIX accounts. If you've watched him stream, you see he'd spend his time boosting accounts and such for money. I really doubt on top of that, maintaining his vVv account, school, etc. he was also playing thousands of games, portrait farming, and dropping MMR to troll, long before he was even sponsored by NITRIX. More than likely they took some kid/employee's account and used the free name change on it for him.
Then you didn't read the thread. He used this account heavily after NITRIX gave it to him, as well as a host of other NITRIX accounts. If you've watched him stream, you see he'd spend his time boosting accounts and such for money. I really doubt on top of that, maintaining his vVv account, school, etc. he was also playing thousands of games, portrait farming, and dropping MMR to troll, long before he was even sponsored by NITRIX. More than likely they took some kid/employee's account and used the free name change on it for him.
edit: i doubt there's anything to be won here.
It's clear which parts of that are fact and which are inference. Fact is that he was a vVv team member, had a vVvDaisuki account with tons of games, goes to college, and boosted accounts for income. The latter is based on watching his stream. And he streamed a lot, for a while, regularly showing good games and beating the best players on ladder with absolutely no hint of foul play.
The inference that he was not using the NITRIX account previously is based on the sudden emergence of several NITRIX accounts in the top of NA GM ladder shortly before daisuki announced that he was sponsored.
your inference doesn't make any sense to me. how does it relate to him possibly boosting a NITRIX account in march 2012? he wasn't announced sponsored untill june.
On February 16 2013 02:07 nunez wrote: your inference doesn't make any sense to me. how does it relate to him possibly boosting a NITRIX account in march 2012? he wasn't announced sponsored untill june.
Most likely they wanted him to boost this account on a trial basis. This was the first account to GM, and other ones (eDrink and like eight others) followed. He didn't announce the sponsorship until all of these accounts were very high up and everybody was wondering who it was. He was no doubt being paid before the announcement.
On February 16 2013 02:07 nunez wrote: your inference doesn't make any sense to me. how does it relate to him possibly boosting a NITRIX account in march 2012? he wasn't announced sponsored untill june.
Most likely they wanted him to boost this account on a trial basis. This was the first account to GM, and other ones (eDrink and like eight others) followed. He didn't announce the sponsorship until all of these accounts were very high up and everybody was wondering who it was. He was no doubt being paid before the announcement.
ok, so it is probable that it was infact daisuki playing on that account (when it reached top 2 gm in march 2012), and now maybe illusion can explain why he thought he was maphacking.
On February 16 2013 02:07 nunez wrote: your inference doesn't make any sense to me. how does it relate to him possibly boosting a NITRIX account in march 2012? he wasn't announced sponsored untill june.
Most likely they wanted him to boost this account on a trial basis. This was the first account to GM, and other ones (eDrink and like eight others) followed. He didn't announce the sponsorship until all of these accounts were very high up and everybody was wondering who it was. He was no doubt being paid before the announcement.
ok, so it is probable that it was infact daisuki playing on that account (when it reached top 2 gm in march 2012), and now maybe illusion can explain why he thought he was maphacking.
There's no way to know, and throwing around assertions does nobody any good. If you have evidence of this, you should provide it.
On February 16 2013 02:07 nunez wrote: your inference doesn't make any sense to me. how does it relate to him possibly boosting a NITRIX account in march 2012? he wasn't announced sponsored untill june.
Most likely they wanted him to boost this account on a trial basis. This was the first account to GM, and other ones (eDrink and like eight others) followed. He didn't announce the sponsorship until all of these accounts were very high up and everybody was wondering who it was. He was no doubt being paid before the announcement.
ok, so it is probable that it was infact daisuki playing on that account (when it reached top 2 gm in march 2012), and now maybe illusion can explain why he thought he was maphacking.
There's no way to know, and throwing around assertions does nobody any good. If you have evidence of this, you should provide it.
yes, indeed. again, hopefully illusion has some insight, or maybe it was just some rumor. and again, no need to dismiss it yet.
I honestly don't have any problem with him playing for a chance to go to dallas.
The fact is that we know he is very good and that there was absolutely no need for him to hack to "boost an account" or for any other reason, if he really wanted the account to be GM he could of done it (but likely would have taken longer). He did not cheat in any tournament or 'steal' any money from people by cheating; he took ladder points.
However, it is a terrible and incredibly stupid thing to do, even on ladder, and he has been thoroughly humiliated and called out in the community (and rightfully so). But, if he is willing to play fair, I have no problem with seeing him showcase his actual skill (that we know he has and has proven he has) for a chance to go to a live tournament. And if they don't allow him, I don't have a problem with that either. MLG's choice.
The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
This guy should be severly punished for what he did. The worst thing about this is that right now he could be cheating on ladder while we are even talking about it.
On February 16 2013 03:24 Prplppleatr wrote: I honestly don't have any problem with him playing for a chance to go to dallas.
The fact is that we know he is very good and that there was absolutely no need for him to hack to "boost an account" or for any other reason, if he really wanted the account to be GM he could of done it (but likely would have taken longer). He did not cheat in any tournament or 'steal' any money from people by cheating; he took ladder points.
How do you know that no one lost money because of Daisuki cheating?
Some people who otherwise should have been top 8 were denied due to his cheating.
So if top 8 is how he was making money, its reasonable to believe that someone else could have made some money from being top 8.
He at least reduced the chances of others of getting sponsorships or picked up by a team by stealing those ladder points, and at worse may have directly taken money from others with similar sponsorship deals.
The fact is, you just don't know that the collateral damage is, so you are just assuming its none. The true is that we will never know the full extent of his cheating, or how much others were harmed by it.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Goswser, if you are going to toss around that idea, back it up. Don't get the community pitch forks up just because you are theory crafting about him having no integrity. The decision he made was based off a demand by his sponsor (an impossible task in the time frame) and him having physical issues leading him to take the easy way out two weeks ago. This isn't a huge advantage at all considering MLG is not BYOC and it certainly has judges that would prevent him from hacking all the way up to 2nd place. If you are going to accuse him of that, you should bring evidence first dude.
There is nothing to prevent him from hacking against me in an online bo5 though. And it would be very very hard to prove if he just hacks to ensure he is always safe and always drones fully.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Suppose I am a convicted murderer. Then suppose one of my friends is murdered. Is it right to punish me for that murder, too? Certainly not. To be suspicious, certainly, but to act in the same way as if I had committed the crime definitively is unjustified.
... That analogy lol
Also, he has been proven guilty of map hacking. Just not in online tournaments (yet). We don't know for sure if he did, the point is just that since there's no way to tell (if he is careful enough) if he is hacking or not, it ruins the competition to have a player like him in high level brackets.
That's besides the point and you commit logical errors. If there were some evidence of Gosu User's claim, then yes, you could say "this guy has history, we lean towards guilty." But that is very different from throwing random assertions in the air.
Well... He has history lol he was just caught? You need to understand hacking on ladder and hacking in tournaments is almost the same thing. Yes it's worst to hack in tournament but basically in both case you hacked. The difference is only the motivation behind it. It doesn't make it okay to hack on ladder you need to get that through your head e.e
On February 16 2013 00:28 goswser wrote: Why does everyone believe Daisuki when he says he never cheated in online tournaments? Because he says so? Of course he would deny that, because if he admitted to it then the community would shun him for a much longer time. It's way way harder to provide damning evidence from only tournament replays to prove he hacked in online tournaments, then it is to do so from ladder replays. As to whether he should be invited to MLG online qualifiers, I'm completely against it. It may not have been very hard to prove he hacked on ladder, but if he tries to hide it, it would be very easy for him to hack without anyone realizing it in a single bo5 online. Considering he is already a decent player, all he would need to do is use the hack to get a good build order advantage and drone fully when he knows he is safe to get a huge advantage, and something like this would be almost impossible to prove.
Who's to say he doesn't kick kittens either? Proving a negative is impossible and your idea here is really off-base and silly.
a top level player playing with a production tab on is close to impossible to detect. when playing an online tournament vs an opponent, the reason you are not going around being paranoid is probably because you TRUST your other player to play a fair game. there's really nothing else you can do.
how can you trust a player that has admitted to hacking?
I don't know, why was Dragon in IPL? Etc. etc. At least daisuki's abuse was on ladder and not in a tournament. KawaiiRice, TT1, Dragon, LastShadow have all cheated in real competitive events. I think that's much, much worse than on ladder, and for a short time at that.
What's your point exactly? That we should let hacker play in tournaments and it's all good? I know double standards are really bad for competition, but, except Dragon that apparently played in IPL, I don't really see TT1 play anymore. It's also been months since I've heard of LastShadow but I really don't follow tournaments as much anymore.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
It kind of does... I mean not literally but the only reason Daisuki has stopped hacking is because he was caught. Once all eyes are not on him anymore, he's most likely just gonna reinstall MH (if he uninstalled it at all) and do it again. Don't give me another round of that bullshit "innocent until proven guilty", he was caught like one week ago.
He has told me that several people using the nick nitrix with some evil intent and even using prohibited programs, We contacted blizzard about it it has no control over which players choose nick. For this reason we do not support any more players of StarCraft 2. Are only left with a Peter Yoo and canceled the project of making a team with the best names Nitrix community. By reason of being negative corporate image in the community of StarCraft 2. We had a beautiful project to 6 players with support of $ 2,000.00 per month, Plus costs and Trips hotel for tournaments and for each player, My boss saw these comments and canceled the project. We apologize for any inconvenience.
So this scumbag not only is a hacker but also deprived Sc2 scene of 12000 dollars a month because he is full of shit and lied to his sponsors? Niiiiiiiice
He has told me that several people using the nick nitrix with some evil intent and even using prohibited programs, We contacted blizzard about it it has no control over which players choose nick. For this reason we do not support any more players of StarCraft 2. Are only left with a Peter Yoo and canceled the project of making a team with the best names Nitrix community. By reason of being negative corporate image in the community of StarCraft 2. We had a beautiful project to 6 players with support of $ 2,000.00 per month, Plus costs and Trips hotel for tournaments and for each player, My boss saw these comments and canceled the project. We apologize for any inconvenience.
So this scumbag not only is a hacker but also deprived Sc2 scene of 12000 dollars a month because he is full of shit and lied to his sponsors? Niiiiiiiice
Not that I'm inclined to believe the sponsors are guilt free on all levels, but for those claiming that no one lost money, well here's a refutation to that idea.
i would take whatever nitrix says with a grain of salt.
edit: but of course hacking is damaging to the growth of the scene, that is certain. especially when top players do it. that's not up for debate i think.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
"it is a terrible and incredibly stupid thing to do, even on ladder, and he has been thoroughly humiliated and called out in the community (and rightfully so)"
If you didn't bother to read what I wrote, why are you responding to it?
I never said it was ok to hack because it is ladder, hacking is hacking; cheating is cheating. Bottom line, it is "mlg's choice"...If they want to let him play because he has proven he is a top NA player, i'm fine with it. If they choose that because he hacked that they will replace him with someone else, i'm fine with that too. It is their choice.
Also, wpgstevo, people do not get paid for being at the top of the ladder. Ladder points mean next to nothing. If someone was financially hurt by this they would have said so, but from what I can see in the OP no one was saying those were showmatch or tournament games where money was on the line. And teams have been quoted several times stating that ladder points are one of the least important qualities of a potential recruit.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournaments we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
TT1 he's just deflecting from Daisuki for some reason. Its a common theme in this thread.
We need to stop deflecting, especially with misinformation about other players. It is damaging to their careers - tell a lie and 100 people will hear it, and only 1 will bother to fact check you. Its a real problem to give out misleading or false information like that guys.
what is there to argue about? im pretty sure he even got caught hacking on one of his other accs a few seasons ago, that should be easy enough to look up
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
IdrA's actually 100% correct. Dino and others in sc1 talked about their ability to know timings/etc due to the maphacking having let them see the timings over and over over a prolonged period of time. When I used my maps, I was able to do "timing attacks" I shouldn't have been able to do, but could due to the lower resources/build times, and thus I was hitting people at different timings, seeing what they were doing. I learned to "feel' these timings and thus when I stopped using the maps, still retained the game-sense/etc.
I'm by no means saying hacking/cheating is okay, just claiming his comment is 100% true.
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournament we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
TT1's comment is pretty good, comments like pigmanbears spreads sick misinformation and people just take it as truth and it casts a dark shadow on the truth, he never did cheat in anything that mattered financially or otherwise.
This guy is beyond confirmed for map-hacking. Mad props to Remark for doing all his background work before calling him out. People who have suspicions of others cheating should definitely undertake Remark's model because it works if done right. What is even more crazy is that a company sponsored him in good faith and he trashed their reputation by hacking.
Just hope we can exile these cheaters from the community and drag them through the mud like the cheating sob's they are. There should not be any 2nd,3rd,4th,5th chances because if this was a real sport such as "cycling,baseball,hockey,soccer,American football" he would be banned for life. Gotta up our standards people but that is unlikely. So I am content with esports just chasing its tail around as we try to make this a "sport".
On February 16 2013 04:33 ROOTT1 wrote: what is there to argue about? im pretty sure he even got caught hacking on one of his other accs a few seasons ago, that should be easy enough to look up
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
IdrA's actually 100% correct. Dino and others in sc1 talked about their ability to know timings/etc due to the maphacking having let them see the timings over and over over a prolonged period of time. When I used my maps, I was able to do "timing attacks" I shouldn't have been able to do, but could due to the lower resources/build times, and thus I was hitting people at different timings, seeing what they were doing. I learned to "feel' these timings and thus when I stopped using the maps, still retained the game-sense/etc.
I'm by no means saying hacking/cheating is okay, just claiming his comment is 100% true.
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournament we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
TT1's comment is pretty good, comments like pigmanbears spreads sick misinformation and people just take it as truth and it casts a dark shadow on the truth, he never did cheat in anything that mattered financially or otherwise.
I definitely agree man.
That being said, I'm curious what harm people think this 'really' did. I mean, it might be unfortunate that another more skilled player was denied his spot in GM (assuming he wasn't up there w/o mh) but I can't exactly see what other damage he has done. No, I am not condoning hacking, as I see the competitive skill of the player as their most important trait, but if I'm missing something about what he did then I would like to understand a little better.
edit - I would like to add that i believe it's the tournament's decision to let him compete, not mine, but if he actually realizes the consequences of his actions and stops MHing then I don't see why it helps the community to remove a skilled player from our ranks simply because some people hold a grudge against hackers. Now, obviously if he were ever caught again then we wouldn't have much reason to believe he's going to actually stop, so then a permaban/lockout would make sense. As it stands now though, he seems pretty repentant.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
"it is a terrible and incredibly stupid thing to do, even on ladder, and he has been thoroughly humiliated and called out in the community (and rightfully so)"
If you didn't bother to read what I wrote, why are you responding to it?
I wasn't responding to you personally, but people in general wanting to give him any leniency. I would have quoted you if I was responding directly to you (like I am now).
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
IdrA's actually 100% correct. Dino and others in sc1 talked about their ability to know timings/etc due to the maphacking having let them see the timings over and over over a prolonged period of time. When I used my maps, I was able to do "timing attacks" I shouldn't have been able to do, but could due to the lower resources/build times, and thus I was hitting people at different timings, seeing what they were doing. I learned to "feel' these timings and thus when I stopped using the maps, still retained the game-sense/etc.
I'm by no means saying hacking/cheating is okay, just claiming his comment is 100% true.
On February 16 2013 04:25 ROOTT1 wrote:
On February 15 2013 22:22 pigmanbear wrote:
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournament we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
TT1's comment is pretty good, comments like pigmanbears spreads sick misinformation and people just take it as truth and it casts a dark shadow on the truth, he never did cheat in anything that mattered financially or otherwise.
I definitely agree man.
That being said, I'm curious what harm people think this 'really' did. I mean, it might be unfortunate that another more skilled player was denied his spot in GM (assuming he wasn't up there w/o mh) but I can't exactly see what other damage he has done. No, I am not condoning hacking, as I see the competitive skill of the player as their most important trait, but if I'm missing something about what he did then I would like to understand a little better.
My take on it is that this guy went out and got sponsored. So he now represents a company by the name of NITRIX. With that being said he went about "cheating", trashing his reputation and the companies opinion/view on the esports scene etc.. etc.. In other words he made it look like a worst investment than it already is for companies to come into esports.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
IdrA's actually 100% correct. Dino and others in sc1 talked about their ability to know timings/etc due to the maphacking having let them see the timings over and over over a prolonged period of time. When I used my maps, I was able to do "timing attacks" I shouldn't have been able to do, but could due to the lower resources/build times, and thus I was hitting people at different timings, seeing what they were doing. I learned to "feel' these timings and thus when I stopped using the maps, still retained the game-sense/etc.
I'm by no means saying hacking/cheating is okay, just claiming his comment is 100% true.
On February 16 2013 04:25 ROOTT1 wrote:
On February 15 2013 22:22 pigmanbear wrote:
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournament we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
TT1's comment is pretty good, comments like pigmanbears spreads sick misinformation and people just take it as truth and it casts a dark shadow on the truth, he never did cheat in anything that mattered financially or otherwise.
I definitely agree man.
That being said, I'm curious what harm people think this 'really' did. I mean, it might be unfortunate that another more skilled player was denied his spot in GM (assuming he wasn't up there w/o mh) but I can't exactly see what other damage he has done. No, I am not condoning hacking, as I see the competitive skill of the player as their most important trait, but if I'm missing something about what he did then I would like to understand a little better.
My take on it is that this guy went out and got sponsored. So he now represents a company by the name of NITRIX. With that being said he went about "cheating", trashing his reputation and the companies opinion/view on the esports scene etc.. etc.. In other words he made it look like a worst investment than it already is for companies to come into esports.
Ok, I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure it's quite so clear cut. I think it's up to the sponsor them self to decide if this was a bad thing. Personally, I wouldn't have even heard of this guy or his sponsor if not for this news (the old saying, any news is good news, or w/e). I'm still up in the air about how negative this was, can someone confirm from other sponsors that a thing like this really makes them view e-sports in a more negative light? I suppose if this were more common it might reflect the community, but I honestly haven't seen something like this in quite a while, so I would think it's not quite as bad a some people are making it out to be right now. It's easy to take a 'tough on bad guys' stance without really thinking in-depth about the whole thing, so I just want to be sure we've covered all our bases in this case.
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
Sorry TT1, I had the facts wrong, you were banned from a $$ tournament for cheating elsewhere. I had you in the same group as LastShadow, KawaiiRice, etc, but I was wrong about that.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
That's a very good point. A good question to ask is this: Is there knowledge to be gleaned from map-hack (where you can change your strategy in real-time) that you could not otherwise obtain from good replay analysis and practice games? Or is the former merely a convenient substitute for the diligence required by the latter?
Excellent! Now let him crawl under a rock for a long while. No one should get away with cheating, which is exactly what his inclusion in this event would have been.
On February 16 2013 01:18 pigmanbear wrote: That's besides the point and you commit logical errors. If there were some evidence of Gosu User's claim, then yes, you could say "this guy has history, we lean towards guilty." But that is very different from throwing random assertions in the air.
Well... He has history lol he was just caught? You need to understand hacking on ladder and hacking in tournaments is almost the same thing. Yes it's worst to hack in tournament but basically in both case you hacked. The difference is only the motivation behind it. It doesn't make it okay to hack on ladder you need to get that through your head e.e
You completely skimmed over that, I guess. Emphasis on "if there were some evidence of Gosu User's claim." If I rob a bank I am not immediately guilty of robbing every bank in the city.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
IdrA's actually 100% correct. Dino and others in sc1 talked about their ability to know timings/etc due to the maphacking having let them see the timings over and over over a prolonged period of time. When I used my maps, I was able to do "timing attacks" I shouldn't have been able to do, but could due to the lower resources/build times, and thus I was hitting people at different timings, seeing what they were doing. I learned to "feel' these timings and thus when I stopped using the maps, still retained the game-sense/etc.
I'm by no means saying hacking/cheating is okay, just claiming his comment is 100% true.
On February 16 2013 04:25 ROOTT1 wrote:
On February 15 2013 22:22 pigmanbear wrote:
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournament we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
TT1's comment is pretty good, comments like pigmanbears spreads sick misinformation and people just take it as truth and it casts a dark shadow on the truth, he never did cheat in anything that mattered financially or otherwise.
I definitely agree man.
That being said, I'm curious what harm people think this 'really' did. I mean, it might be unfortunate that another more skilled player was denied his spot in GM (assuming he wasn't up there w/o mh) but I can't exactly see what other damage he has done. No, I am not condoning hacking, as I see the competitive skill of the player as their most important trait, but if I'm missing something about what he did then I would like to understand a little better.
My take on it is that this guy went out and got sponsored. So he now represents a company by the name of NITRIX. With that being said he went about "cheating", trashing his reputation and the companies opinion/view on the esports scene etc.. etc.. In other words he made it look like a worst investment than it already is for companies to come into esports.
On the flip side, it's safe to say a lot of people would have never heard of NITRIX if not for this incident.
On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
IdrA's actually 100% correct. Dino and others in sc1 talked about their ability to know timings/etc due to the maphacking having let them see the timings over and over over a prolonged period of time. When I used my maps, I was able to do "timing attacks" I shouldn't have been able to do, but could due to the lower resources/build times, and thus I was hitting people at different timings, seeing what they were doing. I learned to "feel' these timings and thus when I stopped using the maps, still retained the game-sense/etc.
I'm by no means saying hacking/cheating is okay, just claiming his comment is 100% true.
On February 16 2013 04:25 ROOTT1 wrote:
On February 15 2013 22:22 pigmanbear wrote:
On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournament we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
TT1's comment is pretty good, comments like pigmanbears spreads sick misinformation and people just take it as truth and it casts a dark shadow on the truth, he never did cheat in anything that mattered financially or otherwise.
I definitely agree man.
That being said, I'm curious what harm people think this 'really' did. I mean, it might be unfortunate that another more skilled player was denied his spot in GM (assuming he wasn't up there w/o mh) but I can't exactly see what other damage he has done. No, I am not condoning hacking, as I see the competitive skill of the player as their most important trait, but if I'm missing something about what he did then I would like to understand a little better.
My take on it is that this guy went out and got sponsored. So he now represents a company by the name of NITRIX. With that being said he went about "cheating", trashing his reputation and the companies opinion/view on the esports scene etc.. etc.. In other words he made it look like a worst investment than it already is for companies to come into esports.
On the flip side, it's safe to say a lot of people would have never heard of NITRIX if not for this incident.
Yeah, I'm still curious about this side of it all. It seems a lot of people are getting personally offended that this guy would MH, and totally ignoring other things surrounding this event.
On February 16 2013 04:46 bK- wrote: Hide nested quote - On February 16 2013 04:42 StayPhrosty wrote: On February 16 2013 04:34 lastshadow wrote: On February 16 2013 04:21 IdrA wrote: On February 16 2013 03:49 pigmanbear wrote: On February 16 2013 03:35 tribulator wrote: The "its ok cause it was ladder" shit is sickening. That's like a baseball player saying "Oh, I was just doping for exhibition games, its cool, lemme play the world series now".
God that's an awful analogy for so many reasons. I never knew maphack stayed in your system until now.
maphacking actually does have a long term beneficial effect if you use it correctly, it makes it much easier to learn timings and analyze builds. the same information can be gathered from watching replays or by playing customs with a maphack, but the ability to play a 'legit' competitive game and learn to recognize those situations and how and when to take advantage of them under pressure is quite valuable.
IdrA's actually 100% correct. Dino and others in sc1 talked about their ability to know timings/etc due to the maphacking having let them see the timings over and over over a prolonged period of time. When I used my maps, I was able to do "timing attacks" I shouldn't have been able to do, but could due to the lower resources/build times, and thus I was hitting people at different timings, seeing what they were doing. I learned to "feel' these timings and thus when I stopped using the maps, still retained the game-sense/etc.
I'm by no means saying hacking/cheating is okay, just claiming his comment is 100% true.
On February 16 2013 04:25 ROOTT1 wrote: On February 15 2013 22:22 pigmanbear wrote: On February 15 2013 22:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Where's TT1 when you need him! Get him on the case!
I have far more respect for Daisuku than TT1. TT1 cheated in games that really count, not ladder BS for a week.
i cheated in games that mattered? plz get ur facts straight. i never participated in any online tournaments in bw because we didnt have any, the only tournament we had were wgtcl + nation wars and those didnt have a prizepool.. 95% of our games were either ladder games or customs
dumb little bitch dont open ur mouth if u dont know what ur talking about
TT1's comment is pretty good, comments like pigmanbears spreads sick misinformation and people just take it as truth and it casts a dark shadow on the truth, he never did cheat in anything that mattered financially or otherwise.
I definitely agree man.
That being said, I'm curious what harm people think this 'really' did. I mean, it might be unfortunate that another more skilled player was denied his spot in GM (assuming he wasn't up there w/o mh) but I can't exactly see what other damage he has done. No, I am not condoning hacking, as I see the competitive skill of the player as their most important trait, but if I'm missing something about what he did then I would like to understand a little better.
My take on it is that this guy went out and got sponsored. So he now represents a company by the name of NITRIX. With that being said he went about "cheating", trashing his reputation and the companies opinion/view on the esports scene etc.. etc.. In other words he made it look like a worst investment than it already is for companies to come into esports.
Ok, I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure it's quite so clear cut. I think it's up to the sponsor them self to decide if this was a bad thing. Personally, I wouldn't have even heard of this guy or his sponsor if not for this news (the old saying, any news is good news, or w/e). I'm still up in the air about how negative this was, can someone confirm from other sponsors that a thing like this really makes them view e-sports in a more negative light? I suppose if this were more common it might reflect the community, but I honestly haven't seen something like this in quite a while, so I would think it's not quite as bad a some people are making it out to be right now. It's easy to take a 'tough on bad guys' stance without really thinking in-depth about the whole thing, so I just want to be sure we've covered all our bases in this case.
On February 16 2013 05:23 Wpgstevo wrote: The events surrounding it are irrelevant, unless someone held a gun to his head.
Cheating is cheating. Why people are trying to marginalize it is beyond me.
:/ comeon dude. please put a little more effort into your post. How is exposure and advertising for NITRIX not important? Your narrow-minded view provides no support for your argument. I'm asking what cheating means. Seriously. People assume it's 'morally' wrong and therefore hurts the community but I'm just trying to explore the exact consequences. I'm not marginalizing the fact that he hacked, I'm just trying to see the connection you make between cheating and hurting the rest of us.
On February 16 2013 05:23 Wpgstevo wrote: The events surrounding it are irrelevant, unless someone held a gun to his head.
Cheating is cheating. Why people are trying to marginalize it is beyond me.
:/ comeon dude. please put a little more effort into your post. How is exposure and advertising for NITRIX not important? Your narrow-minded view provides no support for your argument. I'm asking what cheating means. Seriously. People assume it's 'morally' wrong and therefore hurts the community but I'm just trying to explore the exact consequences. I'm not marginalizing the fact that he hacked, I'm just trying to see the connection you make between cheating and hurting the rest of us.
I find the arguments claiming injury to be dubious simply because this occurred when most professional players are already playing the expansion. A high rank in Wings of Liberty is at this point for nothing but vanity. A year ago I'd argue otherwise.
I'm not arguing that cheating is anything but a dick move. But when I say "injury" I'm talking about material loss. A cheater does in a way rob his opponent of their time, and certainly of their enjoyment of the game.
On February 16 2013 05:23 Wpgstevo wrote: The events surrounding it are irrelevant, unless someone held a gun to his head.
Cheating is cheating. Why people are trying to marginalize it is beyond me.
:/ comeon dude. please put a little more effort into your post. How is exposure and advertising for NITRIX not important? Your narrow-minded view provides no support for your argument. I'm asking what cheating means. Seriously. People assume it's 'morally' wrong and therefore hurts the community but I'm just trying to explore the exact consequences. I'm not marginalizing the fact that he hacked, I'm just trying to see the connection you make between cheating and hurting the rest of us.
using NITRIX as your example isn't really good, considering the circumstances. it seemed like they not only encouraged him to hack, but also the 'sponsor' hacked himself playing 3v3s with daisuki (according to daisuki himself). i am fairly confident that any other professional business that could possibly invest into sc2 would have nothing to do with cheating in competition. i'm sure if you did a survey with the current sponsors they'd think you'd be joking.
hacking, cheating, corruption stunts the growth of the starcraft 2 scene as a whole, i don't think this is debatable.
edit: and i think what we 'gain' from having a company like NITRIX come in and pay people to hack is so so small in comparison to what we would gain as a whole from having a no bullshit policy on cheating. to be frank i don't think we gain anything from having a company like NITRIX involved in our scene. talking about what they gain isn't really relevant for us.
NITRIX in general has been accused of hacking many, many times. I even have evidence of their tag/brand/image or whatever hacking. It's obviously clear that they do not care, or that they are doing it on purpose for publicity or whatever other reason. They wont (and can't really) be stopped. Just ban daisuki from tournaments until he decided to find another sponsor.
On February 16 2013 04:38 ConGee wrote: Didn't Korean pro teams use map hacks during in-team practice sessions?
no, that was just extremely shitty translation by RGN's manager at the time
I will personally tell you I know of three progamers who use maphack and food-hack (see opponents food count) during practice games with other pro-gamer friends. They don't use it on the ladder or anything, but they do use it when creating builds etc to save time of the replay-watching. It also saves them time for having to constantly watch replays/resume games from certain situations as they can just adjust instantly/learn the best stuff instantly.
On February 16 2013 05:23 Wpgstevo wrote: The events surrounding it are irrelevant, unless someone held a gun to his head.
Cheating is cheating. Why people are trying to marginalize it is beyond me.
:/ comeon dude. please put a little more effort into your post. How is exposure and advertising for NITRIX not important? Your narrow-minded view provides no support for your argument. I'm asking what cheating means. Seriously. People assume it's 'morally' wrong and therefore hurts the community but I'm just trying to explore the exact consequences. I'm not marginalizing the fact that he hacked, I'm just trying to see the connection you make between cheating and hurting the rest of us.
using NITRIX as your example isn't really good, considering the circumstances. it seemed like they not only encouraged him to hack, but also the 'sponsor' hacked himself playing 3v3s with daisuki (according to daisuki himself). i am fairly confident that any other professional business that could possibly invest into sc2 would have nothing to do with cheating in competition. i'm sure if you did a survey with the current sponsors they'd think you'd be joking.
hacking, cheating, corruption stunts the growth of the starcraft 2 scene as a whole, i don't think this is debatable.
edit: and i think what we 'gain' from having a company like NITRIX come in and pay people to hack is so so small in comparison to what we would gain as a whole from having a no bullshit policy on cheating. to be frank i don't think we gain anything from having a company like NITRIX involved in our scene. talking about what they gain isn't really relevant for us.
Okay, thanks for letting me know. This is something i was looking for, as I had no idea NITRIX was involved with his decision to use hacks. All I meant was that this controversy means exposure for a sponsor, which means revenue for our players. Now, some companies may not want to be associated with this sort of shady behaviour, and they may look down on the industry, but tbh if a big sponsor gets more exposure and then gets to sit back and say 'we had nothing to do with this' then they seem to be getting a decent gain. As far as cheating/hacking hurting the growth of sc2, I'm really not sure where your argument is coming from. You say it's not debatable but I'm honestly curious what people are going to stop playing/not play sc2 because somebody hacked once. Obviously if the game was overrun with rampant hacking then it would be bad for the ladder experience, but that doesn't seem to be the case right now, and I think blizzard has other things on their hands to deal with that are making the ladder experience negative for a lot of people. A hacker on the ladder obviously makes his opponent frustrated that he lost, but what's one game, really? You could make a case that no cheese should be allowed because it causes people on the ladder to lose without realizing why. Obviously cheese is a legitimate part of the game because of it's competitive ability at a high level of play, and hacking doesn't provide this. That being said, it's not like a player has his time 'robbed' just because he lost a ladder match. I would argue that there are many situations where players lose because of something they totally fail to understand about their opponent, so having whatever tiny percentage increase that this single player caused doesn't really seem like such a travesty.
Just because you phrase something dismissively, doesn't mean there is no effect. It seems like you just don't care that hacking is ruining the experience for some people. And yes, it is time robbed. It is a game where the player could have had a legitimate chance of winning. Or at least a learning experience. Or at least fun.
i don't think any big sponsor in starcraft 2 would sit back and grin if one of their top players got caught hacking / cheating on ladder. i think that's an almost absurd notion.
hacking / cheating takes away from everyday Joe's ladder experience on a daily basis. hacking / cheating takes away from competition, and takes money away from truly talented players in weekly cups / monthly cups stopping them from progressing as well as they should have. hacking / cheating takes away from the reputation of the sport.
i don't agree with your cheese argument either. there is a reason why there is a gm / master hacker thread, but not a gm / master cheeser thread. but you are more than welcome to start one. i got a slew of replays for you. god damned cheesers.
i think you are trying a bit too hard to play the devils advocate here.
i think daisuki's best course of action would have been to just come clean, but he didn't have the mental or testicular capacity. i am sure there is some sort of proportionality between the manner in which you exit and the time before you are allowed to sneak back in again. i am sure some of you who were here for brood war can find some fitting name to this theorem, but i have yet to see someone caught hacking actually handle it in an intelligent way.
On February 16 2013 04:38 ConGee wrote: Didn't Korean pro teams use map hacks during in-team practice sessions?
no, that was just extremely shitty translation by RGN's manager at the time
I will personally tell you I know of three progamers who use maphack and food-hack (see opponents food count) during practice games with other pro-gamer friends. They don't use it on the ladder or anything, but they do use it when creating builds etc to save time of the replay-watching. It also saves them time for having to constantly watch replays/resume games from certain situations as they can just adjust instantly/learn the best stuff instantly.
I think you're hurting the point you're trying to help here.
If I'm a progamer and I want to practice with other progamer friends I'll play a custom game with that information there, it's not too difficult to create and I'm sure if you told your team how valuable it would be to learn they would create it for you no questions asked.
While I don't disagree that a map-hack like event would be great for learning (I've been contemplating doing customs with friends without fog of war for just this purpose) the download of a maphack alone is step one to doing it often, when there are ways to do the same thing without breaking rules.
but you also have to consider that pro players don't really have any incentive to hack on ladder. or shouldn't at least. well... when i read progamer i am thinking like on a top international / korean team. but if you have a different take and broader take on the word i definitively see your point.
On February 16 2013 04:38 ConGee wrote: Didn't Korean pro teams use map hacks during in-team practice sessions?
no, that was just extremely shitty translation by RGN's manager at the time
I will personally tell you I know of three progamers who use maphack and food-hack (see opponents food count) during practice games with other pro-gamer friends. They don't use it on the ladder or anything, but they do use it when creating builds etc to save time of the replay-watching. It also saves them time for having to constantly watch replays/resume games from certain situations as they can just adjust instantly/learn the best stuff instantly.
you say a lot of controversial things that most other people "in the know" don't confirm. While i can confirm that some people did do that in broodwar(bruce is the one that comes to mind - but he didnt only do it in practice), but i am 100% sure this isnt true in SC2. It's much simpler to play on a map that would provide those benefits without running the risk of getting your account randomly banned by some ingame scan or having someone like yourself expose them.
On February 16 2013 04:38 ConGee wrote: Didn't Korean pro teams use map hacks during in-team practice sessions?
no, that was just extremely shitty translation by RGN's manager at the time
I will personally tell you I know of three progamers who use maphack and food-hack (see opponents food count) during practice games with other pro-gamer friends. They don't use it on the ladder or anything, but they do use it when creating builds etc to save time of the replay-watching. It also saves them time for having to constantly watch replays/resume games from certain situations as they can just adjust instantly/learn the best stuff instantly.
Thanks for answering my question before of if it was more a matter of convenience or if you could learn original things for map hacks. That's very interesting.
On February 16 2013 06:46 mainerd wrote: I agree stayphrosty, if hacking increases player exposure and means more money for 'our players', it would only benefit esports if they hacked.
Its also completely incorrect. The fact that hacking increased that player's exposure does not mean that the net effect on esports is positive. It only means the net effect on the hacker is positive, without consideration of any damage.
wow.... . I remember playing Diasuki for the WCS Qualifiers and was down 0-2. I ended up coming back winning it to go to Anehaim 3-2. I remember calling him a hacker on stream after losing the first 2 games 10 months ago and he took extreme defense to it so I figured something was up, when he had first changed to NitrixDrink. I felt bad when I got to Anehaim as if it was my fault calling him that. But now I don't feel so bad.
Though on Diasuki's defense. He is an extremely talented player; I saw it before he went to nitrix. I don't think he needed to map hack in the first place, and I do believe that Nitrix kinda ruined this for him. So I do believe diasuki in this case.
Times in this economy are hard, and if people want to make an extra buck, they will do anything to do so. I definitely can understand this from his perspective. Was it the right choose in the end? No.
I think teams should take him up, but I expect drones and overlords to try and scout me.
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