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On December 16 2012 22:42 nihlon wrote:
Anyone that have a job would probably throw a hissy fit if they go into salary negotiations and your boss wants to cut your salary in half.
You would, I would, but apparently half the people in this thread would be totally relaxed about it.
With the information given, it is stupid to make any comment about who's right or wrong. Did they want to cut in half an existing contract without the contract allowing for any such arbitrary changes (Ganzi version) or did they merely offer a worse follow-up contract (col guy version)? Different stories entirely.
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I feel like Ganzi commited eSports suicide by going out in public trashing one of the biggest and most respected teams. We are talking about Complexity here and not some bullshit team like Apex. I think Ganzi is a cool guy but this was a very stupid thing to do. I cant see foreign teams lining up to sign him after this. Also he sounds like a huge drama queen in that article.
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There may be be some form of misunderstanding, but Jason calling him "age" was too harsh.....so what? He is 23 right? Thats not even old....
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On December 16 2012 23:07 Bowzar wrote:
I feel like Ganzi commited eSports suicide by going out in public trashing one of the biggest and most respected teams. We are talking about Complexity here and not some bullshit team like Apex. I think Ganzi is a cool guy but this was a very stupid thing to do. I cant see foreign teams lining up to sign him after this. Also he sounds like a huge drama queen in that article.
You're pretty quick to judge.
I gotta side with Ganzi on this one, I don't believe he's lying, and it just shows a lack of professionalism by Lake. I like Lake, but everyone can agree he did quite a few mistakes.
To me it's not more about the salary cut as it is the words he said to him.
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On December 16 2012 23:11 dynwar7 wrote:
There may be be some form of misunderstanding, but Jason calling him "age" was too harsh.....so what? He is 23 right? Thats not even old....
he's 24, 26 in korean age.
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On December 16 2012 23:06 FrogOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 22:42 nihlon wrote:
Anyone that have a job would probably throw a hissy fit if they go into salary negotiations and your boss wants to cut your salary in half. You would, I would, but apparently half the people in this thread would be totally relaxed about it. With the information given, it is stupid to make any comment about who's right or wrong. Did they want to cut in half an existing contract without the contract allowing for any such arbitrary changes (Ganzi version) or did they merely offer a worse follow-up contract (col guy version)? Different stories entirely.
I guess that is probably because half the people in this thread are under age and never worked a full time job.
We are lacking information though: did he a) want to renegotiate the running contact by cutting current salary in half (inacceptable behavior) or b) offer a follow up contract at half salary (acceptable behavior).
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On December 16 2012 23:23 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 23:06 FrogOfWar wrote:On December 16 2012 22:42 nihlon wrote:
Anyone that have a job would probably throw a hissy fit if they go into salary negotiations and your boss wants to cut your salary in half. You would, I would, but apparently half the people in this thread would be totally relaxed about it. With the information given, it is stupid to make any comment about who's right or wrong. Did they want to cut in half an existing contract without the contract allowing for any such arbitrary changes (Ganzi version) or did they merely offer a worse follow-up contract (col guy version)? Different stories entirely. I guess that is probably because half the people in this thread are under age and never worked a full time job. We are lacking information though: did he a) want to renegotiate the running contact by cutting current salary in half (inacceptable behavior) or b) offer a follow up contract at half salary (acceptable behavior).
Pretty much this.
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I commend esfi for getting both sides of the matter. Very professional.
And, results are inconclusive. If ganzi really wants to sabotage col he meeds to prove the contract was supposed to alter his current one. Jason lake just needs to stick to his story.
Also wonder who col will be looking to pick up
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Highly unlikely complexity did anything wrong. Koreans seem to have their feelings hurt for just about everything.
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On December 16 2012 23:23 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 23:06 FrogOfWar wrote:On December 16 2012 22:42 nihlon wrote:
Anyone that have a job would probably throw a hissy fit if they go into salary negotiations and your boss wants to cut your salary in half. You would, I would, but apparently half the people in this thread would be totally relaxed about it. With the information given, it is stupid to make any comment about who's right or wrong. Did they want to cut in half an existing contract without the contract allowing for any such arbitrary changes (Ganzi version) or did they merely offer a worse follow-up contract (col guy version)? Different stories entirely. I guess that is probably because half the people in this thread are under age and never worked a full time job. We are lacking information though: did he a) want to renegotiate the running contact by cutting current salary in half (inacceptable behavior) or b) offer a follow up contract at half salary (acceptable behavior).
Yes, but how stable is esports really? Who knows, his current salary might simply be unsustainable given his current performance. I mean, if your performance were to be cut in half (or however Complexity views Ganzi's performance) with an uncertain prospect of future improvement (how many people with RSI go on to regain their former form in SC2?), what would you expect to happen to your pay? Especially in an industry where even the companies are on loose footing.
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On December 16 2012 23:13 MetalPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 23:11 dynwar7 wrote:
There may be be some form of misunderstanding, but Jason calling him "age" was too harsh.....so what? He is 23 right? Thats not even old.... he's 24, 26 in korean age.
You have to understand that age has a very important implication for Korean citizen: the "older" you get, the harder it is to postpone your military service. So yeah in that sense when you're 24 and korean, your e-sport carrer is on a time limit.
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On December 17 2012 00:35 Jetaap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 23:13 MetalPanda wrote:On December 16 2012 23:11 dynwar7 wrote:
There may be be some form of misunderstanding, but Jason calling him "age" was too harsh.....so what? He is 23 right? Thats not even old.... he's 24, 26 in korean age. You have to understand that age has a very important implication for Korean citizen: the "older" you get, the harder it is to postpone your military service. So yeah in that sense when you're 24 and korean, your e-sport carrer is on a time limit.
It's not like they're getting deployed to Afghanistan, isn't it still possible to be a pro gamer if not just online team leagues and cups?
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On December 16 2012 23:23 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 23:06 FrogOfWar wrote:On December 16 2012 22:42 nihlon wrote:
Anyone that have a job would probably throw a hissy fit if they go into salary negotiations and your boss wants to cut your salary in half. You would, I would, but apparently half the people in this thread would be totally relaxed about it. With the information given, it is stupid to make any comment about who's right or wrong. Did they want to cut in half an existing contract without the contract allowing for any such arbitrary changes (Ganzi version) or did they merely offer a worse follow-up contract (col guy version)? Different stories entirely. I guess that is probably because half the people in this thread are under age and never worked a full time job. We are lacking information though: did he a) want to renegotiate the running contact by cutting current salary in half (inacceptable behavior) or b) offer a follow up contract at half salary (acceptable behavior).
They were beginning to negotiate a new contract, and due to GanZi's recent performance and schedule, he was offered a lower salary. If you're a 50 goal scorer in the NHL, sign a new contract, then proceed to score 20 goals for the next 3 years, I guarantee your next contract will be less than half of the previous one. That's how things work in a performance-based industry. If you don't perform, you're not going to get the money -- someone else who is performing will get it instead.
If you have hurt feelings in a contract negotiation, you're only hurting yourself. Based on what I know, above and beyond this thread, what Jason said is true.
What really stands out for me is the fact that GanZi has gone public with this. It's obvious he has been unable to get another contract with the same pay/benefits as his previous coL contract, otherwise he would have just signed with a new team and stayed quiet. He's grasping at straws here and will end up shooting himself in the foot. If he offered to join my team for the current salary that Jason offered him, I'd want no part of that. I don't want any players with character issues on my team and that's what looks to be the case by taking this public.
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Sounds like there's nothing to be heard here.
Neither Ganzi nor Jason Lake have any corroborating witnesses, and there's NO way we can know they are telling the 100% truth.
Move along, nothing to see here yet, not to mention it's none of our business anyways...
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On December 17 2012 01:42 Nuclease wrote:
Sounds like there's nothing to be heard here.
Neither Ganzi nor Jason Lake have any corroborating witnesses, and there's NO way we can know they are telling the 100% truth.
Move along, nothing to see here yet, not to mention it's none of our business anyways...
Tbh they're not really contradicting each other. It just reads like asymmetrical business expectations and perhaps some mistranslation along the way.
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On December 16 2012 23:06 FrogOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 22:42 nihlon wrote:
Anyone that have a job would probably throw a hissy fit if they go into salary negotiations and your boss wants to cut your salary in half. You would, I would, but apparently half the people in this thread would be totally relaxed about it. With the information given, it is stupid to make any comment about who's right or wrong. Did they want to cut in half an existing contract without the contract allowing for any such arbitrary changes (Ganzi version) or did they merely offer a worse follow-up contract (col guy version)? Different stories entirely.
Remember that people threw a fit when Puma (among other players) joined EG "for the money". Apparently fans prefer their players make no salary.
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Ganzi did not perform.. He was the second best player on arguably the best korean team... A constant code s leaguer...
Now he is just plain bad. Makes no sense to keep him on the team imho. Especially with a mentality like that (oh i am not performing but lets demand the same money like back when i was at slayer... Oh and if not ill bad mouth the team after it.)
Also i have a feeling that a lot of people will see in two years time that slayers regime was maybe that bad after all.
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Canada1180 Posts
There's actually not information for us to really judge who's right / wrong.
Seems like GanZi was so hurt by something Lake said, he made a statement on it online. Now I can only imagine what Lake said was pretty harsh, otherwise it's a pretty dumb move by GanZi. We'll see when we get more details.
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The injury made a nice excuse to try to renegotiate a drop in his salary...I'm willing to bet his it would have gone down even if he was full time. What has he done in the last 9 months anyway? I see him lose to Stephano in every MLG, him and Heart lol. Perhaps the injury is why I have been thinking Ganzi is an overrated player for a while now. I always wondered what he was known for other than going about 2/3 the way through tourneys.
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kinda what happens when you dont perform. although it would help to see the contract.
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EPT
