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On December 17 2012 03:02 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 02:40 Xalorian wrote:
And seriously... if it was not true... why did Ganzi left with 3 or 4 months left on is actual contract, missing all those 4 months of salary?
It shows that contracts still mean shit in eSports. In complexity's news they said "We made Ganzi a contract offer for 2013 but were unable to agree on terms." This is obviously enough reason to void any current ongoing contracts. "Sign this contract or gtfo, we will not honor our previous contract", since, as you mentioned, there's no reason for Ganzi to agree to a termination of contract (he only loses salary and apparently wasnt in contact with another team which would sign him immediately).
I'm pretty sure contractual law applies as long as the subject matter is legal...If the contract is truly not being honored Ganzi could sue for non performance and have a pretty easy case, at least in the states. The question then becomes, is it monetarily worth it and would the case be strong enough to get lawyers involved. Depends on what the contract says, if all they did was say, "sign this new contract, it's the only way you will get resigned next year" then they didn't do anything wrong. But complexity is still legally bound to perform under the original contract though even if he doesn't agree to the new one.
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I think Ganzi will regret leaving complexity. I don't think he'll find a team offering as much compared to what Complexity was, even with the salary cut.
...unless he can get back up to Code S level and heal from his injuries.
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0 results
Injuries (and therefore unlikely future results)
Seems reasonable to take a pay cut...
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That sucks for Ganzi, but when you can't get those results, you can't expect to maintain the same level of compensation. The last thing we'd want is players who were good years ago holding on to inflated salaries when their performances have lagged behind.
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This is none of our business. "He said; she said." I don't care. GL finding another team GanZi.
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On December 17 2012 05:31 StarStruck wrote:
This is none of our business. "He said; she said." I don't care. GL finding another team GanZi.
Both sides are essentially saying the same thing though. Seems like something was lost in translation to Ganzi. Nice to see this handled maturely, good luck to both parties.
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On December 17 2012 05:26 dOraWa wrote:
0 results
Injuries (and therefore unlikely future results)
Seems reasonable to take a pay cut...
if Ganzi has 0 results then noone except people who won major tournaments before have "results"
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perhaps misunderstanding because of language barriers? oo;
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Pretty brilliant of Ganzi to take this to the forums, he knows they are packed with "Koreans can do no wrong" fanboys. Just play the "evil foreign team preying on poor Korean progameru" card and get infinite sympathy. And complaining about the conditions of foreign teams? I guess he prefers 12 hours of practice a day with no salary and few opportunities to being flown around the world on someone else's dime? If this were a foreigner, people would be screaming 'entitled' from the rooftops.
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On December 17 2012 05:31 StarStruck wrote:
This is none of our business. "He said; she said." I don't care. GL finding another team GanZi.
I agree, though presumably it was Ganzi's coming to ESFI with his complaints that prompted the story, meaning Ganzi effectively made it our business. I don't care to judge one way or another on the incomplete picture of the negotiations, but I cant help but feel negative about how Ganzi presents his side of the story and that he presented it at all.
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On December 17 2012 06:16 Blennd wrote:
Pretty brilliant of Ganzi to take this to the forums, he knows they are packed with "Koreans can do no wrong" fanboys. Just play the "evil foreign team preying on poor Korean progameru" card and get infinite sympathy. And complaining about the conditions of foreign teams? I guess he prefers 12 hours of practice a day with no salary and few opportunities to being flown around the world on someone else's dime? If this were a foreigner, people would be screaming 'entitled' from the rooftops.
If you actually bothered to read the comments you'd find that they are in fact incredibly biased towards col, not ganzi.
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On December 17 2012 05:40 Kaitokid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 05:26 dOraWa wrote:
0 results
Injuries (and therefore unlikely future results)
Seems reasonable to take a pay cut... if Ganzi has 0 results then noone except people who won major tournaments before have "results"
The thing is he used to have results... he used to be in Code S and was actually one of the more respected Terrans in a time of many GSL Terrans. He left SlayerS for coL pretty much for money it seems and his performance has drastically gone down. I'm sure he's way underperformed from what coL originally expected of him a pay cut is reasonable when there are players who don't even have salaries.
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In Korea great care is taken to never offend or degrade someone. For example, if a Korean team were offering a smaller contract, they would probably lie and tell the person they HAD to because of less funding from sponsors, and that their was no other choice and wish they could do more, and probably offer a list of each player they were cutting to offer proof (even if unrelated to his contract). They would give every reason possible outside of point out a lack of performance. In American, and to a lesser extent, European culture- there is much less thought given to pride or emotions. He was probably just shocked to see it discussed so openly.
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On December 17 2012 02:36 Dontkillme wrote:
Wait a minute, there are players that aren't even going to foreign tourneys and they are still getting paid... GanZi just because he has wrist injury and can't perform like fucking Mvp or Innovation doesn't mean that his salary should be slashed in half. There are so many other complexity players that are equally or even more bad than Ganzi and yet I don't hear any of them getting a pay cut. WTF
They're still playing full time and not dropping out of tournaments due to injury. According to Complexity's statement, the reason they wanted to cut Ganzi's pay was because he wasn't playing full time anymore, not because he wasn't posting results. It was even mentioned that he'd go back to his usual pay whenever he went back to playing full time. And that makes sense. If you went from full time to part time, or went on disability, would you expect to make the same amount of money as you did before?
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On December 17 2012 02:36 Dontkillme wrote:
Wait a minute, there are players that aren't even going to foreign tourneys and they are still getting paid... GanZi just because he has wrist injury and can't perform like fucking Mvp or Innovation doesn't mean that his salary should be slashed in half. There are so many other complexity players that are equally or even more bad than Ganzi and yet I don't hear any of them getting a pay cut. WTF
Or, they got paycut but they know they deserve it, so they don't talk about it?
You think Huk still receives 6 figures number right now? Or Puma still receives his same old salary as 1 year ago? I don't think so.
It depends on the content of the contract, but it's normal that if you don't perform well as before, you got a cut, that's how real world works.
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From whats currently said, I would side with Ganzi. Negotiating a contract 3 months in advance for a lesser salary seems a bit odd. I think less of complexity now....
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On December 17 2012 07:29 aka_star wrote:
From whats currently said, I would side with Ganzi. Negotiating a contract 3 months in advance for a lesser salary seems a bit odd. I think less of complexity now....
Sometimes contract extensions are done far in advance, sometimes a deal gets done right before it expires. Can you explain how it's odd?
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Can't see the problem from Col's perspective.
Ganzi hasn't been performing at a high level for a long time now so Jason Lake's statement looks fairly reasonable.
At the same time, I can understand Ganzi's perspective. A 50% pay cut would suck no matter where you worked. He's going to have to work extra hard now to find a new team as I doubt the demand for his services is very high right now. He's going to need to prove himself if he wants to get back to where he was.
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the other thing is why don't teams support their players through injuries? lots of people in this thread throwing around the "it's a business" stuff, yet i believe that it's bad business to kick your man while he's down. and yes cutting salary in half BEFORE contract has finished, while your player is injured, is kicking him while he's down. and so it seems ganazi is hurt by this treatment, it's possible that he wasn't looking around for another team and did not expect to have the rug pulled out from under him.
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Finally some drama! Hooray! Was missing out on them for quite awhile
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EPT
