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Active: 13217 users

Rain forfeits GSL Code S spot in favor of MLG. - Page 34

Forum Index > SC2 General
1083 CommentsPost a Reply
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creamyturtle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States487 Posts
November 01 2012 16:48 GMT
#661
Does anyone know where I can find a link to the 2012 GSL payout structure?
Terran it up.
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
November 01 2012 16:51 GMT
#662
On November 02 2012 00:23 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 00:20 Salient wrote:
On November 02 2012 00:10 sinigang wrote:
Stop with the drama, it's just business, folks. KeSPA and MLG have a partnership contract (http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-kespa-announce-exclusive-multi-year-partnership), and so obviously KeSPA has all the right to prioritize this over GSL any day. While yes, GOM has the right to whine like a baby 'cause KeSPA/SKT didn't inform them "on time", but until there's a signed agreement about the exact schedules for cancellation etc., GOM really can't do anything about it. So until then, KeSPA can and will surely get away with these arrogant but petty moves, as we've seen many times before.

Solved!


Let me give you some basic legal/business education. A contract between Person A and Person B does not eliminate the obligations of Person A to Person C. Rain, SKTelecom, and KESPA pulled a D-bag move by cancelling two days before the Code S match.

Except Rain has ZERO obligation to GSL.
Would you call Stephano a douchebag for never accepting Code S seeds despite being offered many times?

I love how everyone was bitching at Kespa to let the players decide which tournaments to play, then when someone decides to play MLG, the same people are bitching again.


If Stephano took the invite then changed his mind a week before to do something else than yes. I dont really blame Rain for wanting to go to what Koreans seem to consider the most prestigious foreign event but it is a shame he didnt give earlier notice so that they could work something out.
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 16:54:50
November 01 2012 16:53 GMT
#663
On November 02 2012 01:30 creamyturtle wrote:
Doesn't GSL have tiers of guaranteed prize money? Like RO32 gets $483 dollars, RO16 gets $824, etc etc ??

(here's a thread with the 2010 payouts, they have changed slightly since then: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158572)


Let's do some math using Expected Values. Expected Value is the winning payout multiplied by the probability of winning. In Rain's case, he was already guaranteed RO32 moneys with a probability of 1. That means Expected Value = $430 x 1 = $430

Now let's look at MLG. The probability of Rain winning is somewhere around 0.25 or 25%. Given that he just won the OSL he is a heavy favorite, but having to fight through open bracket of BO3's is a big task, hence the low probability I have assigned him. First place is $5000 so we multiply $5000 x 0.25 = $1250 is our Expected Value for Rain attending MLG.

Now looking back at GSL, Rain has a guaranteed $430 for RO32, with let's say a 0.75 chance of making it to RO16. The RO16 payout is $1710, so we multiply that by 0.75 to get = $1282. So already Rain has about 95%+ chance of getting $430 + $1282 = $1712 pretty much guaranteed cash money.

Using these expected value calculations, you can insert your own probabilities and the more modern 2012 GSL payouts to figure out more accurate calculations. Given Rain's chances of making it through RO16 are pretty good (0.6+), I would estimate his true E.V. in the GSL to be somewhere around $2500+. Since we know MLG's prize pool is not that large, and the relatively low probability of Rain winning MLG, I would argue that Rain made a poor financial decision by abandoning GSL for MLG.

$2500 vs $1250 you do the math



More Advanced Maths:

GSL

$430 x 1 = $430 [RO32]
+
$1710 x 0.75 = $1712 [RO16]
+
$3400 x 0.5 = $1700 [RO8]
+
$8600 x 0.25 = $2150 [RO4]
+....
RO2 + RO1...
=
$5992




MLG

$5000 x 0.25 = $1250


Code S Ro32 pays out roughly $1,279. 1st place at MLG is $25,000.

The payout structure can be found on Liquipedia. Just check the GSL Season 5 page.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
creamyturtle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States487 Posts
November 01 2012 16:57 GMT
#664
On November 02 2012 01:53 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 01:30 creamyturtle wrote:
Doesn't GSL have tiers of guaranteed prize money? Like RO32 gets $483 dollars, RO16 gets $824, etc etc ??

(here's a thread with the 2010 payouts, they have changed slightly since then: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158572)


Let's do some math using Expected Values. Expected Value is the winning payout multiplied by the probability of winning. In Rain's case, he was already guaranteed RO32 moneys with a probability of 1. That means Expected Value = $430 x 1 = $430

Now let's look at MLG. The probability of Rain winning is somewhere around 0.25 or 25%. Given that he just won the OSL he is a heavy favorite, but having to fight through open bracket of BO3's is a big task, hence the low probability I have assigned him. First place is $5000 so we multiply $5000 x 0.25 = $1250 is our Expected Value for Rain attending MLG.

Now looking back at GSL, Rain has a guaranteed $430 for RO32, with let's say a 0.75 chance of making it to RO16. The RO16 payout is $1710, so we multiply that by 0.75 to get = $1282. So already Rain has about 95%+ chance of getting $430 + $1282 = $1712 pretty much guaranteed cash money.

Using these expected value calculations, you can insert your own probabilities and the more modern 2012 GSL payouts to figure out more accurate calculations. Given Rain's chances of making it through RO16 are pretty good (0.6+), I would estimate his true E.V. in the GSL to be somewhere around $2500+. Since we know MLG's prize pool is not that large, and the relatively low probability of Rain winning MLG, I would argue that Rain made a poor financial decision by abandoning GSL for MLG.

$2500 vs $1250 you do the math



More Advanced Maths:

GSL

$430 x 1 = $430 [RO32]
+
$1710 x 0.75 = $1712 [RO16]
+
$3400 x 0.5 = $1700 [RO8]
+
$8600 x 0.25 = $2150 [RO4]
+....
RO2 + RO1...
=
$5992




MLG

$5000 x 0.25 = $1250


Code S Ro32 pays out roughly $1,279. 1st place at MLG is $25,000.

The payout structure can be found on Liquipedia. Just check the GSL Season 5 page.



Ok, thanks dude. Reworked numbers incoming.
Terran it up.
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
November 01 2012 16:57 GMT
#665
MLG over Code S? Is this some kind of stupid joke? I thought SKT1 was a serious team.
"NO" -Has
LockeTazeline
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
2390 Posts
November 01 2012 17:00 GMT
#666
It's not KeSPA's fault; they're just being manipulated by semi-finals curse.
OPL3SA2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States378 Posts
November 01 2012 17:06 GMT
#667
On November 01 2012 14:02 BgSBendeR wrote:
Here comes the massive assumptions. . .
Seriously, my take on this is that he heard from his team mates who attended the KeSPA invitational tournament how awesome foreign fans are and so decided to take part in Open bracket of MLG.


Rather go through open bracket of MLG for a chance on winning a small prize pool, when he's in a guaranteed payout situation with GSL code S? Code S gives you 3200$ just for participating in the round of 32. Why would he forfeit that guaranteed money and exposure? Everyone knows Code S is where it's at... even kespa players...
Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs?
creamyturtle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States487 Posts
November 01 2012 17:07 GMT
#668
New Expected Value math with updated 2012 figures:

GSL

$1279 x 1 = $1279 [RO32]
+
$1705 x 0.75 = $1278 [RO16]
+
$2558 x 0.5 = $1279 [RO8]
+
$4263 x 0.25 = $1066 [SemiFinals]
+
$17,053 x 0.1 = $1705 [Finals]
+
$42,633 x 0.05 = $2131 [Champion]

=
$8738





MLG

$25,000 x 0.25 = $6,250




$8,738 > $6,250

GSL > MLG




Numbers are based on these 2 links:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5
&
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Fall/Championship
Terran it up.
creamyturtle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States487 Posts
November 01 2012 17:10 GMT
#669
Umm with the GSL do you accrue each level of payout? Or do you only receive the level you make it to...?
Terran it up.
Bupalumpa
Profile Joined October 2012
Venezuela24 Posts
November 01 2012 17:11 GMT
#670
It kind of made me want to see Rain FAIL at MLG in punishmet of his GSL forfeit. Ohh well...
Everything changes when it find a purpose
Angry.Zerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Mexico305 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 17:12:37
November 01 2012 17:12 GMT
#671
But MLG is 1 weekend, GLS is one and a half month.

Anyway, I prefer GSL and I'm sad about this. But I won't rage.
You play to win
Angry.Zerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Mexico305 Posts
November 01 2012 17:14 GMT
#672
On November 02 2012 02:11 Bupalumpa wrote:
It kind of made me want to see Rain FAIL at MLG in punishmet of his GSL forfeit. Ohh well...


Part of me wants that too... but my common sense tells me it's better for the scene if Rain succeed.
You play to win
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9448 Posts
November 01 2012 17:15 GMT
#673
On November 02 2012 02:07 creamyturtle wrote:
New Expected Value math with updated 2012 figures:

GSL

$1279 x 1 = $1279 [RO32]
+
$1705 x 0.75 = $1278 [RO16]
+
$2558 x 0.5 = $1279 [RO8]
+
$4263 x 0.25 = $1066 [SemiFinals]
+
$17,053 x 0.1 = $1705 [Finals]
+
$42,633 x 0.05 = $2131 [Champion]

=
$8738





MLG

$25,000 x 0.25 = $6,250




$8,738 > $6,250

GSL > MLG




Numbers are based on these 2 links:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5
&
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Fall/Championship


0% probability of second/3rd/4th+ place at MLG?
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
November 01 2012 17:17 GMT
#674
Meh, Rain will prob win it anyway and KeSPA pros want to go abroad. Let them have their fun, at this age memories are more important than money (especially when he just won OSL anyway).
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
November 01 2012 17:17 GMT
#675
On November 02 2012 02:07 creamyturtle wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [math] +
New Expected Value math with updated 2012 figures:

GSL

$1279 x 1 = $1279 [RO32]
+
$1705 x 0.75 = $1278 [RO16]
+
$2558 x 0.5 = $1279 [RO8]
+
$4263 x 0.25 = $1066 [SemiFinals]
+
$17,053 x 0.1 = $1705 [Finals]
+
$42,633 x 0.05 = $2131 [Champion]

=
$8738





MLG

$25,000 x 0.25 = $6,250




$8,738 > $6,250

GSL > MLG




Numbers are based on these 2 links:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5
&
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Fall/Championship

Now factor in the cost of a round trip ticket to Dallas from Korea -_-
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
creamyturtle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States487 Posts
November 01 2012 17:17 GMT
#676
On November 02 2012 02:15 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 02:07 creamyturtle wrote:
New Expected Value math with updated 2012 figures:

GSL

$1279 x 1 = $1279 [RO32]
+
$1705 x 0.75 = $1278 [RO16]
+
$2558 x 0.5 = $1279 [RO8]
+
$4263 x 0.25 = $1066 [SemiFinals]
+
$17,053 x 0.1 = $1705 [Finals]
+
$42,633 x 0.05 = $2131 [Champion]

=
$8738





MLG

$25,000 x 0.25 = $6,250




$8,738 > $6,250

GSL > MLG




Numbers are based on these 2 links:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5
&
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Fall/Championship


0% probability of second/3rd/4th+ place at MLG?



I could show those probabilities and respective payouts, but you can't get paid for multiple places in MLG. Actually I think the same holds true for GSL so I will have to change those figures.
Terran it up.
creamyturtle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States487 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 17:26:44
November 01 2012 17:24 GMT
#677
Even newer Expected Value math with 2012 figures:


GSL

$1279 x 1 = $1279 [RO32]

$1705 x 0.75 = $1278 [RO16]

$2558 x 0.5 = $1279 [RO8]

$4263 x 0.25 = $1066 [SemiFinals]

$17,053 x 0.1 = $1705 [Finals]

$42,633 x 0.05 = $2131 [Champion]







MLG


$7,250 x 0.75 = $5,437 [SemiFinals]

$15,000 x 0.4 = $6000 [Finals]

$25,000 x 0.25 = $6,250 [Champion]




Average Expected Payouts:

$1,456 < $5,895

GSL < MLG




Numbers are based on these 2 links:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5
&
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Fall/Championship




Edit note: Please ignore my previous posts and figures, as I incorrectly assumed you would get to keep each level of GSL payout as you worked your way up. Unfortunately this is not the case.
Terran it up.
excal
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada166 Posts
November 01 2012 17:25 GMT
#678
On November 02 2012 02:17 creamyturtle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 02:15 Hider wrote:
On November 02 2012 02:07 creamyturtle wrote:
New Expected Value math with updated 2012 figures:

GSL

$1279 x 1 = $1279 [RO32]
+
$1705 x 0.75 = $1278 [RO16]
+
$2558 x 0.5 = $1279 [RO8]
+
$4263 x 0.25 = $1066 [SemiFinals]
+
$17,053 x 0.1 = $1705 [Finals]
+
$42,633 x 0.05 = $2131 [Champion]

=
$8738



MLG

$25,000 x 0.25 = $6,250




$8,738 > $6,250

GSL > MLG




Numbers are based on these 2 links:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5
&
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Fall/Championship


0% probability of second/3rd/4th+ place at MLG?



I could show those probabilities and respective payouts, but you can't get paid for multiple places in MLG. Actually I think the same holds true for GSL so I will have to change those figures.




The problem with expected value is it doesn't consider the indirect financial and non financial gains. MLG opens up to a much wider international audience and also potential partnership/sponsorships with foreign companies that GSL would not otherwise do.

Also without accounting for expected utility, expected value is worthless because money has diminishing returns. And considering the player's desire to play abroad, that would weigh heavily in his utility from participating in MLG.

The world doesn't revolve solely around numbers.
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
November 01 2012 17:30 GMT
#679
On November 02 2012 02:06 OPL3SA2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2012 14:02 BgSBendeR wrote:
Here comes the massive assumptions. . .
Seriously, my take on this is that he heard from his team mates who attended the KeSPA invitational tournament how awesome foreign fans are and so decided to take part in Open bracket of MLG.


Rather go through open bracket of MLG for a chance on winning a small prize pool, when he's in a guaranteed payout situation with GSL code S? Code S gives you 3200$ just for participating in the round of 32. Why would he forfeit that guaranteed money and exposure? Everyone knows Code S is where it's at... even kespa players...

You make it sound like Rain wants to go MLG for the money.
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2216 Posts
November 01 2012 17:30 GMT
#680
This news shouldn't be surprising at all. The whole point of the KeSPA switch was to capitalize on the non-Korean market for SC2 esports.
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