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Rain forfeits GSL Code S spot in favor of MLG. - Page 35

Forum Index > SC2 General
1083 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 33 34 35 36 37 55 Next
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
November 01 2012 17:30 GMT
#681
Not sure if the money calculations are in jest but this decision by rain is clearly not motivated by money. Nor should money necessarily always be the foremost concern.
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2216 Posts
November 01 2012 17:31 GMT
#682
Maybe not money, but international recognition/fame.
iEatWoofers
Profile Joined August 2011
Switzerland108 Posts
November 01 2012 17:32 GMT
#683
This caused drama? Really? Goddamn it people, grow the fuck up.
creamyturtle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States487 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 17:37:14
November 01 2012 17:34 GMT
#684
On November 02 2012 02:25 excal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 02:17 creamyturtle wrote:
On November 02 2012 02:15 Hider wrote:
On November 02 2012 02:07 creamyturtle wrote:
New Expected Value math with updated 2012 figures:

GSL

$1279 x 1 = $1279 [RO32]
+
$1705 x 0.75 = $1278 [RO16]
+
$2558 x 0.5 = $1279 [RO8]
+
$4263 x 0.25 = $1066 [SemiFinals]
+
$17,053 x 0.1 = $1705 [Finals]
+
$42,633 x 0.05 = $2131 [Champion]

=
$8738



MLG

$25,000 x 0.25 = $6,250




$8,738 > $6,250

GSL > MLG




Numbers are based on these 2 links:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5
&
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Fall/Championship


0% probability of second/3rd/4th+ place at MLG?



I could show those probabilities and respective payouts, but you can't get paid for multiple places in MLG. Actually I think the same holds true for GSL so I will have to change those figures.




The problem with expected value is it doesn't consider the indirect financial and non financial gains. MLG opens up to a much wider international audience and also potential partnership/sponsorships with foreign companies that GSL would not otherwise do.

Also without accounting for expected utility, expected value is worthless because money has diminishing returns. And considering the player's desire to play abroad, that would weigh heavily in his utility from participating in MLG.

The world doesn't revolve solely around numbers.




Right. So let's apply a utility function for each tournament. Like you said, Rain probably receives a higher Utility from a foreign tournament for obvious reasons: potential sponsorships, int'l exposure, more entertaining crowds, personal reasons, time, etc.


Utility Functions:


GSL

E(U) = 1.0 x Expected Payout

E(U) = 1.0 x $1,456 = $1,456


MLG

E(U) = 1.3 x Expected Payout

E(U) = 1.3 x $5,895 = $7,663




$1456 vs $7663

GSL <<< MLG



These numbers assume that Rain puts a 30% premium on foreign tournaments vs Korean tournaments.



So, assuming Rain does prefer Foreign events over Korean events, then he should DEFINITELY choose MLG over GSL, given the expected payouts and expected utilities.

PS -- the world does revolve around numbers
Terran it up.
JKM
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark419 Posts
November 01 2012 17:38 GMT
#685
On November 02 2012 02:25 excal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 02:17 creamyturtle wrote:
On November 02 2012 02:15 Hider wrote:
On November 02 2012 02:07 creamyturtle wrote:
New Expected Value math with updated 2012 figures:

GSL

$1279 x 1 = $1279 [RO32]
+
$1705 x 0.75 = $1278 [RO16]
+
$2558 x 0.5 = $1279 [RO8]
+
$4263 x 0.25 = $1066 [SemiFinals]
+
$17,053 x 0.1 = $1705 [Finals]
+
$42,633 x 0.05 = $2131 [Champion]

=
$8738



MLG

$25,000 x 0.25 = $6,250




$8,738 > $6,250

GSL > MLG




Numbers are based on these 2 links:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5
&
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Fall/Championship


0% probability of second/3rd/4th+ place at MLG?



I could show those probabilities and respective payouts, but you can't get paid for multiple places in MLG. Actually I think the same holds true for GSL so I will have to change those figures.




The problem with expected value is it doesn't consider the indirect financial and non financial gains. MLG opens up to a much wider international audience and also potential partnership/sponsorships with foreign companies that GSL would not otherwise do.

Also without accounting for expected utility, expected value is worthless because money has diminishing returns. And considering the player's desire to play abroad, that would weigh heavily in his utility from participating in MLG.

The world doesn't revolve solely around numbers.


I agree, it's not as simple as potential payout numbers, but is the MLG exposure really necessary?
I'm confident that WCS.World championship and GSL ro4 in Las Vegas gives a similar level of international exposure. Should he have failed at reaching ro4 in GSL he could fly to Las Vegas anyway and take part in the open brackets for IPL5.
1338, one upping 1337
N.geNuity
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States5112 Posts
November 01 2012 17:43 GMT
#686
it's just that SKT doesn't want soO to be their representative and mlg.

because forget that soO was a osl semifinalist, or ended last rounds of regular season proleague '10-'11 at 13-2 (rocketing him up to tied third place in a fantasy proleague season), or even ended skp season 1 regular season with a 6-0 streak after thoroughly trolling my fantasy team opening up fucking 1-5, no one *likes* soO.
iu, seungah, yura, taeyeon, hyosung, lizzy, suji, sojin, jia, ji eun, eunji, soya, younha, jiyeon, fiestar, sinb, jung myung hoon godtier. BW FOREVERR
LimeNade
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2125 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 17:46:58
November 01 2012 17:45 GMT
#687
Why is everyone blatantly being completely ignorant of how Rain feels on this? Anyone ever think that MAYBE Rain wants to experience traveling to NA to participate in a foreign event where he has a muchhhhhhhhhhhh larger fan base here then in korea atm. He definitely talked to Flash and Jaedong and other kespa players who were here previously for MLG events and heard how much fun they had. You gotta remember MLG weekend isn't just playing for these players. They get to interact with their fan base, and travel to some of the biggest cities in America. Maybe Rain wanted to take this opportunity to see Dallas which is one of the largest cities in America where he may never have a chance to go to Dallas again for a long time. Not to mention he'll get to have a great time at the after party interacting with other players and his fellow kespa players while just kicking back and relaxing.

Life experience is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more important to most people who don't get to travel often then the potential to make money that he'll have a pretty good shot at in the next season when he plays his up and down matches.
JD, need I say more? :D
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
November 01 2012 17:50 GMT
#688
Wow, can't believe they put priority on MLG over GSL. O_o
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Interstellar
Profile Joined May 2012
Mexico67 Posts
November 01 2012 17:51 GMT
#689
SK Telecom realizes MLG is the future of Starcraft. The fans and sponsors are all with MLG. And since Gom TV still charges to see games while MLG has free high def streams, the fans will continue to flock to the MLG site.
El que es chingon, es chingon.
unix04
Profile Joined November 2011
United States89 Posts
November 01 2012 17:52 GMT
#690
I think MLG would be better for Rain and SKT than another run at the GSL. In terms of financial benefits, it could really go either way depending on his performance in the tournament. Given that Rain was in a very tough group in GSL, it's possible that this was a calculated risk not only for potential monetary benefits but also increasing the global brand for both Rain and SKT. Plus, given the busy schedule, a trip abroad might be good for Rain to unwind a little bit and refresh himself in a more relaxing atmosphere. (yea, MLG is probably a nice vacay tourney compared to OSL/GSL)

In the end, I dont think this is KeSPA trying to attack GSL, but a KeSPA team/player's attempt to look out for their best interests. eSF players/teams do it all the time. It's just unfortunate that this has to occur in the midst of tension between the two organizations, but this was a business motive and not a political one.
i am the captain of my fate, the master of my soul
TommyP
Profile Joined December 2011
United States6231 Posts
November 01 2012 17:52 GMT
#691
On November 01 2012 23:24 1handsomE wrote:
This decision makes even less sense when considering the GSL finals are in Las Vegas. He couldn't have thought that this will be his only time to get Foreigner (American) fandom.

It doesn't really make sense why KeSPA would pull him either, unless they think their players can't win or something so they are sending someone who can? I dunno about all this.


Oh wow that's a good point. If he made ro4, he goes to Vegas (awesomer than Dallas.) either he wasn't confident he could make ro4 or kespa forced him.
#TheOneTrueDong
creamyturtle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States487 Posts
November 01 2012 17:59 GMT
#692
So why does Hyun get an automatic win against Rain? Seems unfair to YoDa and GuMiHo who have to battle for the other chance at the winner's match...
Terran it up.
Haze.884
Profile Joined July 2011
New Zealand192 Posts
November 01 2012 18:01 GMT
#693
On November 02 2012 02:51 Interstellar wrote:
SK Telecom realizes MLG is the future of Starcraft. The fans and sponsors are all with MLG. And since Gom TV still charges to see games while MLG has free high def streams, the fans will continue to flock to the MLG site.


Dream on.
a
Bluerain
Profile Joined April 2010
United States348 Posts
November 01 2012 18:03 GMT
#694
On November 01 2012 14:02 BgSBendeR wrote:
Here comes the massive assumptions. . .
Seriously, my take on this is that he heard from his team mates who attended the KeSPA invitational tournament how awesome foreign fans are and so decided to take part in Open bracket of MLG.


you're kidding right. forfeit chance of code s prize money to be with awesome fans lulz
Soulrahj
Profile Joined January 2012
21 Posts
November 01 2012 18:04 GMT
#695
Dallas cool city, amazing foreigner fans... Its so hard for people to think maybe, he go mlg for......... MONEY (or live her passion if you prefer).
Incomplet
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United Kingdom1419 Posts
November 01 2012 18:10 GMT
#696
On November 02 2012 02:51 Interstellar wrote:
SK Telecom realizes MLG is the future of Starcraft. The fans and sponsors are all with MLG. And since Gom TV still charges to see games while MLG has free high def streams, the fans will continue to flock to the MLG site.


Gom recently said they are looking to improve their stream quality soon.
Bow down to the sons of Aiur...SKT1_Rain, CreatorPrime, ST_Parting, Liquid_Hero.
Nuclease
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1049 Posts
November 01 2012 18:10 GMT
#697
...WHAT.

God damn it KeSPA.

WE KNOW IT'S YOU.

Get the pitchforks.
Zealots, not zee-lots. | Never forget, KTViolet, Go)Space. | You will never be as good as By.Flash, and your drops will never be as sick as MMA.
ChoboDane
Profile Joined January 2012
Denmark98 Posts
November 01 2012 18:12 GMT
#698
Might very well have been his own decision, who knows?
After all, what does the OSL champion care about the Global Dishwasher League
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
November 01 2012 18:13 GMT
#699
its the nick, all rains forfeit gsl for mlg ^^
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Bluerain
Profile Joined April 2010
United States348 Posts
November 01 2012 18:14 GMT
#700
On November 01 2012 23:08 johnny123 wrote:
to me , this makes sense from rains position, He has quite a few tournaments to play this month. it will be better for his schedule atleast for this month if he did not have to keep playing all the time. He still has Blizzard WCS finals which is a butttttttttttttttttloadd of money to be won . I dont think he cares about gsl this season.


seriously doubt this is RAin's personal decision because as a professional this is seriously unprofessional to back out of Code S like this for MLG open bracket. I dont think he would risk damaging his reputation like thisunless he was forced to do so by KESPA. People who are given Code S spots need to sign some kind of contract where they are fined if they cant participate in a match.

this is not about wanting to experience abroad and all this bullshit that ppl are spouting. he could do that at any other time. this is about ruining the credibility of GOM's tournament. if ppl are jus dropping out like this, whose going to take GOM seriously anymore.
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