On November 02 2012 00:22 Messi wrote: They really really have to work together to schedule some events. This isn't cool man.
Reading this thread would be enough to make anyone go near insaen. Doesn't anyone read a thread before posting in it? Or at least read the OP?
GOM obviously worked together with all the teams to make sure players could go to MLG. There are plenty of other Code S players at MLG and their matches have been resceduled so it doesn't overlap. The fact that Rain/SKT/KeSPA decided on a whim to send him to MLG, after the GSL has already started makes rescheduling completely impossible.
"Sorry Leenock and Life, instead of playing your Code S matches next week when you are back from USA, you'll have to play them this thursday so Rain can go play in the open bracket at MLG..." Right...
On November 02 2012 00:10 sinigang wrote: Stop with the drama, it's just business, folks. KeSPA and MLG have a partnership contract (http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-kespa-announce-exclusive-multi-year-partnership), and so obviously KeSPA has all the right to prioritize this over GSL any day. While yes, GOM has the right to whine like a baby 'cause KeSPA/SKT didn't inform them "on time", but until there's a signed agreement about the exact schedules for cancellation etc., GOM really can't do anything about it. So until then, KeSPA can and will surely get away with these arrogant but petty moves, as we've seen many times before.
Solved!
Let me give you some basic legal/business education. A contract between Person A and Person B does not eliminate the obligations of Person A to Person C. Rain, SKTelecom, and KESPA pulled a D-bag move by cancelling two days before the Code S match.
Errr... you don't get my point. Based on GOM's note in the OP, we can well assume that there aren't any solid agreements as to advanced notices of cancellation whatsoever. If there were, they'd be suing KeSPA now. But no. All they can do is just say something along the lines of "we hope this won't happen anymore in the future." KeSPA ain't breaking contracts here, they're just (potentially) ruining relationships with GOM.
Would have liked to see Rain play in the GSL this season to see if he could repeat on his run, but also biased cause I will be at MLG Dallas and the event is better since he will be there. In the end it was his decision to make so who cares what anyone besides him and his team think, they thought MLG was the best choice so everyone will have to live with that decision. Besides he is still in CODE A, just win a few matches and he will be back in Code S next season. Which the way the schedule works will and them going through seasons really quick will be like early next year. We will see him at MLG and WCS for sure, and who knows maybe he will come to IPL also. Not worried one bit about this decision.
On November 02 2012 00:22 Messi wrote: They really really have to work together to schedule some events. This isn't cool man.
Reading this thread would be enough to make anyone go near insaen. Doesn't anyone read a thread before posting in it? Or at least read the OP?
GOM obviously worked together with all the teams to make sure players could go to MLG. There are plenty of other Code S players at MLG and their matches have been resceduled so it doesn't overlap. The fact that Rain/SKT/KeSPA decided on a whim to send him to MLG, after the GSL has already started makes rescheduling completely impossible.
"Sorry Leenock and Life, instead of playing your Code S matches next week when you are back from USA, you'll have to play them this thursday so Rain can go play in the open bracket at MLG..." Right...
Except not all the code s players were in the OSL finals on the 27th. I'm pretty sure going to MLG or playing in the GSL is the last thing on his mind at that point.
On November 02 2012 00:10 sinigang wrote: Stop with the drama, it's just business, folks. KeSPA and MLG have a partnership contract (http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-kespa-announce-exclusive-multi-year-partnership), and so obviously KeSPA has all the right to prioritize this over GSL any day. While yes, GOM has the right to whine like a baby 'cause KeSPA/SKT didn't inform them "on time", but until there's a signed agreement about the exact schedules for cancellation etc., GOM really can't do anything about it. So until then, KeSPA can and will surely get away with these arrogant but petty moves, as we've seen many times before.
Solved!
Let me give you some basic legal/business education. A contract between Person A and Person B does not eliminate the obligations of Person A to Person C. Rain, SKTelecom, and KESPA pulled a D-bag move by cancelling two days before the Code S match.
When obligations of A and C overrides interests or directly makes impossible the contract between A and B you could very well discharge the contract under various rulings and then pay out damages. I don't see how this is relevant though. Forfeiting is a completely legitimate action to take and punitive only by the codes and agreements between the player and Gomtv, as far as I know there isn't anything that prevents a player from forfeiting regardless of what external interests that player has with Kespa is. I don't really see an indication of malice or intent to harm, incompetence maybe, but not malice.
On November 02 2012 00:38 Jethro6315 wrote: Would have liked to see Rain play in the GSL this season to see if he could repeat on his run, but also biased cause I will be at MLG Dallas and the event is better since he will be there. In the end it was his decision to make so who cares what anyone besides him and his team think, they thought MLG was the best choice so everyone will have to live with that decision. Besides he is still in CODE A, just win a few matches and he will be back in Code S next season. Which the way the schedule works will and them going through seasons really quick will be like early next year. We will see him at MLG and WCS for sure, and who knows maybe he will come to IPL also. Not worried one bit about this decision.
Glad to see there are plenty of other reasonable voices in this thread. Cut the kid some some slack, he was busy preparing for OSL and then decided he wanted to experience the excitement of playing in front of foreign fans. No need to get so worked up that code s will have one less player.
I also will be at Dallas for my first esports event and I can't wait to cheer on rain .
On November 02 2012 00:10 sinigang wrote: Stop with the drama, it's just business, folks. KeSPA and MLG have a partnership contract (http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-kespa-announce-exclusive-multi-year-partnership), and so obviously KeSPA has all the right to prioritize this over GSL any day. While yes, GOM has the right to whine like a baby 'cause KeSPA/SKT didn't inform them "on time", but until there's a signed agreement about the exact schedules for cancellation etc., GOM really can't do anything about it. So until then, KeSPA can and will surely get away with these arrogant but petty moves, as we've seen many times before.
Solved!
Let me give you some basic legal/business education. A contract between Person A and Person B does not eliminate the obligations of Person A to Person C. Rain, SKTelecom, and KESPA pulled a D-bag move by cancelling two days before the Code S match.
When obligations of A and C overrides interests or directly makes impossible the contract between A and B you could very well discharge the contract under various rulings and then pay out damages. I don't see how this is relevant though. Forfeiting is a completely legitimate action to take and punitive only by the codes and agreements between the player and Gomtv, as far as I know there isn't anything that prevents a player from forfeiting regardless of what external interests that player has with Kespa is. I don't really see an indication of malice or intent to harm, incompetence maybe, but not malice.
Efficient Breach is still breach and as you said entails liability.
Hm. On one hand I get to watch MLG and I rarely get to see GSL, on the other hand winning GSL Code S > winning MLG. Not sure if it's the right call but whatever, decision has already been made and I get to see Rain play, so I'm happy.
On November 01 2012 23:41 Proseat wrote: Rain is not the first Korean pro to possibly underestimate the MLG Open Bracket. So far he's never had to play when having to deal with real jetlag (his only other tournament abroad, WCS Asia in China, was basically the same timezone). And having to play against unknown opponent after unknown opponent all condensed in just a single weekend is a completely different beast in terms of stamina and preparation than playing a limited amount of known opponents you can prepare for over the course of several weeks like in GSL or OSL. As we know, Open Bracket games will barely be shown on the MLG streams, if at all then primarily on the premium streams only. To have foreign fans shout his name and all, he would have to make it to playing on stage. It may be a rude awakening if he doesn't succeed in doing so. And then what's next for him is facing elimination in Code A Ro48 (next OSL and Proleague have not been announced).
Obviously SKT T1 is to be blamed here for not notifing GOMTV well in advance so that Rain's Code S group could have been swapped (as they have done several times in the past). Seeing how Rain's schedule was initially submitted to GOM as requested (with no mentioning of MLG, mind you) and how defensive MLG's Adam Apicella has been on his Twitter, I can't help but think that after Rain won OSL (and it was clear he had not qualified through MLG's MvP tournament) MLG reminded KeSPA of their exclusive deal (plus how awesome it would be to have Rain at MLG Dallas after all) and that may have set things in motion. MLG may have also possibly mentioned that Code S finals involving KeSPA player Rain at an event of their direct NA competitor IGN/IPL in Las Vegas may become a complicated issue. Who knows.
Either way, I guess we'll see how things stand between KeSPA teams and the GSL league when the list of competitors in the Code A qualifiers after next week is released. Here's hoping that the 5-party talks in Korea (Blizzard, KeSPA, eSF, OGN, GOM) will address all the issues sufficiently and prevent such problems in the future.
I think you make a good point about stamina and preparation time, but in my opinion the open bracket format fits Rain's very defensive style pretty well. The guy seems to be very good at defending early aggression, and he surely will get cheesed a lot. In my opinion he won't win the whole thing but he will make a good run like 5th to 8th place finish.
Well, I guess we'll see how good he'll be at it doing so all day long with not many breaks while also dealing with jetlag.
On November 02 2012 00:38 Jethro6315 wrote: We will see him at MLG and WCS for sure, and who knows maybe he will come to IPL also.
I seriously doubt we'll be seeing any KeSPA player competing in IPL5. MLG has exclusivity and will not allow KeSPA players in the tournament of their largest rival on the North American market.
I am still working my way through the up and down matches but the protosses were just getting pooped on. Was really looking for Rain to stomp on some T's and Z's so I can steal his ideas. + Show Spoiler +
especially after OSL
Oh well MLG will definitely be more interesting with him playing.
On November 02 2012 00:02 achan1058 wrote: Honestly, I hope he bombs out due to a bunch of cheeses/fatique at this point. One simply does not pull last minute stuff like this.
Don't hate on players, hate SKT, hate GSL rush season, hate MLG.
I don't hate the player. Him bombing out would make KeSPA look bad, that's all.
If you dont' hate the player, then your words is like saying, I hope his son got crippled, since his father is an criminal.
In my opinion the most important thing to come out of this is that Gom should make it clear if there is any suspension for forfeiting and be consistent. Personally I do not think that Rain should be allowed to play in Code A and should have to re qualify. Rain got a Code S seed last season and this is how he repays the GSL?
Let's do some math using Expected Values. Expected Value is the winning payout multiplied by the probability of winning. In Rain's case, he was already guaranteed RO32 moneys with a probability of 1. That means Expected Value = $430 x 1 = $430
Now let's look at MLG. The probability of Rain winning is somewhere around 0.25 or 25%. Given that he just won the OSL he is a heavy favorite, but having to fight through open bracket of BO3's is a big task, hence the low probability I have assigned him. First place is $5000 so we multiply $5000 x 0.25 = $1250 is our Expected Value for Rain attending MLG.
Now looking back at GSL, Rain has a guaranteed $430 for RO32, with let's say a 0.75 chance of making it to RO16. The RO16 payout is $1710, so we multiply that by 0.75 to get = $1282. So already Rain has about 95%+ chance of getting $430 + $1282 = $1712 pretty much guaranteed cash money.
Using these expected value calculations, you can insert your own probabilities and the more modern 2012 GSL payouts to figure out more accurate calculations. Given Rain's chances of making it through RO16 are pretty good (0.6+), I would estimate his true E.V. in the GSL to be somewhere around $2500+. Since we know MLG's prize pool is not that large, and the relatively low probability of Rain winning MLG, I would argue that Rain made a poor financial decision by abandoning GSL for MLG.
$2500 vs $1250 you do the math
More Advanced Maths:
GSL
$430 x 1 = $430 [RO32] + $1710 x 0.75 = $1712 [RO16] + $3400 x 0.5 = $1700 [RO8] + $8600 x 0.25 = $2150 [RO4] +.... RO2 + RO1... = $5992
Let's do some math using Expected Values. Expected Value is the winning payout multiplied by the probability of winning. In Rain's case, he was already guaranteed RO32 moneys with a probability of 1. That means Expected Value = $430 x 1 = $430
Now let's look at MLG. The probability of Rain winning is somewhere around 0.25 or 25%. Given that he just won the OSL he is a heavy favorite, but having to fight through open bracket of BO3's is a big task, hence the low probability I have assigned him. First place is $5000 so we multiply $5000 x 0.25 = $1250 is our Expected Value for Rain attending MLG.
Now looking back at GSL, Rain has a guaranteed $430 for RO32, with let's say a 0.75 chance of making it to RO16. The RO16 payout is $1710, so we multiply that by 0.75 to get = $1282. So already Rain has about 95%+ chance of getting $430 + $1282 = $1712 pretty much guaranteed cash money.
Using these expected value calculations, you can insert your own probabilities and the more modern 2012 GSL payouts to figure out more accurate calculations. Given Rain's chances of making it through RO16 are pretty good (0.6+), I would estimate his true E.V. in the GSL to be somewhere around $2500+. Since we know MLG's prize pool is not that large, and the relatively low probability of Rain winning MLG, I would argue that Rain made a poor financial decision by abandoning GSL for MLG.
EPT
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Guess Ill know what to do if the party im going to is boring 
