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On September 17 2012 19:55 Luisa_2 wrote:
I agree, I mean four seeds for Germany in WCS finals? I mean if there would be more spots overall I would agree, but I mean you can argue that there are quite some top player from Germany (Socke, Hasu, TLO, Darkforce,..), but I mean not seeing Dimaga, Kas from Ukraine or Nani, Sase and Morrow or Cytoplasm made me kinda sad.
And also 9 seats for US, I mean lets face it, there are not 9 player who really can compete in finals (besides others who will get crushed nontheless), but thats not the real point, because this event should repesent as many countries as possible right? So why so many US-player? Ok the only US player I can think of whould have a chance are Huk and Idra (sry Incontrol but no^^) (and also player like scarlett, vibe and so on... I mean no not rly), so give like 6-7 spots to NA and like 1 more for east EU and 1 direct for china (which I think is a really great idea).
Erm, you do realize Scarlett won WCS Canada and NA which put her above Idra and Huk, and that she has more recent wins against code-S regulars than both of them combined? Right?
My point is you can't fail to include her in a list of those deserving of a seed regardless of how you design the system
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On September 17 2012 22:27 Mauldo wrote:
Why would they do it based off of some random, unjustifiable, unmeasurable, "Well, these countries are better than this country" rubric? No one would ever agree with who they said was the better country, and thus deserved the most slots. And beyond that, they have to change it every year based off of super secret Blizzard memos or something equally stupid. Not to mention the fact that Korea will definitely always hold the highest power base, so WCS will just turn into GSL with Stephano and Scarlett. What a great WORLD FINALS, trololol. And you can't qualify "Well, we'd only give Korea 7 or so," because then it's not a true "Based off merit" system, like you claimed you wanted.
Oh, and I'm surprised I have to say this, but can people stop saying "The US has 9 seeds"? Cuz we don't. NA does. That includes Mexico and Canada. I'm surprised the United States citizen has to make that correction, but for some reason I do. The Europeans are usually so much more on top of shitting on us and reminding us that HuK isn't really American, because he's half Canadian or something equally insulting.
The current license idea is the best because it's the most subjective. I'm sorry Naniwa and Thorizain didn't play well enough to qualify, you'll just have to support another fellow, maybe one of the 7 Europeans who qualified?
Well said, sir.
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I think Blizzard has the right idea, basing the number of seeds on the player base in each region. We already have enough tournaments that reward raw talent/skill. The WCS is to give local talent a chance to compete. We all know that some code B Korean could have come to the NA WCS and won it. But that isn't the point. NA has a very large player base, but before WCS had no incentive to really try hard as they would simply get their pocket picked by random Koreans or even Europeans. Now there is at least one tournament where NA players have a chance. This is good, as it gives this large player base more incentive to get better rather than pwning in 4v4s.
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The WCS is supposed to be like a World Cup. So there is a wide distribution of players from all over the World. That is what they have done. In the FIFA World Cup, some football teams from Asia and NA are present despite being objectively worse than some European and SA teams who miss out. Some regions have harder qualification processes than others due to the intensity of competition/places available. This has to occur in order to have a truly global event. The WCS is using this model and will also be a global event.
The main flaw is that Africa and the Middle East is completely ignored. Not even one tournament for people from these regions. If you are a quality player but were from South Africa or Dubai then you don't even get a chance to qualify anywhere. Maybe WCS could have had online qualifiers for people from these areas and then perhaps had one LAN tournament for the qualified players to feed into one place at the Euro Continental Finals. We are talking about regions of almost 1.4 Billion people being overlooked. For a global event that should be addressed in the future.
Anyway, we should probably wait and see how the Asian Continental Finals and the World Championships actually go before we start attempting to judge the success or not of WCS.
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On September 18 2012 00:10 revel8 wrote:
The main flaw is that Africa and the Middle East is completely ignored. Not even one tournament for people from these regions. If you are a quality player but were from South Africa or Dubai then you don't even get a chance to qualify anywhere. Maybe WCS could have had online qualifiers for people from these areas and then perhaps had one LAN tournament for the qualified players to feed into one place at the Euro Continental Finals. We are talking about regions of almost 1.4 Billion people being overlooked. For a global event that should be addressed in the future.
PandaTank from South Africa took part in the WCS Combined EU Qualifier (because South Africans play on EU server).
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If they did it by skill level rather than current system, it would be 31 players from Korea, 1 player from Europe. That wouldn't exactly be a world championship. The current one is only objective way to get players from every region.
(And why do you say it should be done by skill and then give more seeds to Europe than Asia in your suggestion?.........)
Qualifying directly for worlds is pretty silly though directly from national qualifiers
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On September 18 2012 00:44 Scarlett` wrote:
If they did it by skill level rather than current system, it would be 31 players from Korea, 1 player from Europe. That wouldn't exactly be a world championship. The current one is only objective way to get players from every region.
(And why do you say it should be done by skill and then give more seeds to Europe than Asia in your suggestion?.........)
Qualifying directly for worlds is pretty silly though directly from national qualifiers
Yeah I think I will go and change that in the opening post as it was not my intent to have the discussion focused around that. The only reason I did that was because I thought it was boring to have more Koreans in the tournament when they with system I suggest already have 7-9 players. Which gives them a far better representation then any other nation.
So it is not really based on skill, it is just a little bit more based on skill then the previous system. But I am happy you agree about the national qualifiers. My intent is to create a debate regarding the current system, which so far have not gone that well x)
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On September 17 2012 19:58 4ZakeN87 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 19:43 PiGStarcraft wrote:
It's not about skill it's about growing the scene across all countries not just those already thriving.
SC2 is so new that building it up is just as important as rewarding those at the top.
You talk about how it needs to be interesting so not just being all korean but instead suggest "All Korean and all where I'm from, Europe" and even suggest more spots for Europe then Asia. If you want to follow the approach of let's put the highest skilled and most deserving players in it HAS to be 90% Koreans you can't just say "we'll put more koreans then other countries, but not as many as is worth their skill". You can't pick and choose like that either it's all skill or all based on something else like promoting eSports in regions based on games sales. Well I guess my suggestion was a little bit biased but then if you look at it from a country perspective there is no doubt that most skilled countries are in EU and thus is the current system not giving the best representation of the foreign scene. But yeah I agree there is an conflict about scenes growing and the current skill level and removing one seed from SEA might have been a little harsh. Regardless as I finished my post, my point is not that I have come up with a perfect solution, just that I think that the current system is bad and there are better options. As I think have been suggested by several posts already. It is not that hard to suggest a system that is better then the current one imo ^.^
It's not harsh to remove one of the SEA seeds as much as I don't like that idea being part of SEA! If it was based on skill alone SEA would only have 1 spot I agree. As it stands though I really like the way this tournament was all about promoting growth in neglected eSports communities as well as those that were already thriving.
I agree that some countries like Sweden and Korea could perhaps recieve a few more spots for their fantastic eSports scenes and high number of skilled players.
On another note I think people find it hard to see their heroes not perform so well and in a harsh tournament like this you get very few chances. That being said I absolutely love the way these formats give few chances to all and as such there are many upsets. Players like Ziktomini, Sortof and Vortix have exploded in popularity and exposure around the times of WCS and it's cool to see the exposure get shared to some new faces 
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It's about numbers of viewers man. More NA players, more of them advance, more NA viewers. NA is already one of the biggest viewerships, might as well capitalize.
And honestly, 10 NA players vs 3-4 Korean players sounds pretty fair in terms of odds 
(I mean shit, if it's 1 Korean, who's the right Korean, on their game, 10 vs 1 sounds good).
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On September 18 2012 00:26 SinCitta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 00:10 revel8 wrote:
The main flaw is that Africa and the Middle East is completely ignored. Not even one tournament for people from these regions. If you are a quality player but were from South Africa or Dubai then you don't even get a chance to qualify anywhere. Maybe WCS could have had online qualifiers for people from these areas and then perhaps had one LAN tournament for the qualified players to feed into one place at the Euro Continental Finals. We are talking about regions of almost 1.4 Billion people being overlooked. For a global event that should be addressed in the future.
PandaTank from South Africa took part in the WCS Combined EU Qualifier (because South Africans play on EU server).
OK, well that is great news then.
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I know this discussion is about changes for future WCS Championships, but is there actually any word on whether there will be one every year or is this a one-off? I am guessing that the chances of it being repeated annually is how profitable or not the event is overall. Can anyone comment on how profitable or not this WCS thing will by Blizzard? Is it going to make massive losses and is Blizzard happy to take the hit as it promotes their game? I know some folks are arguing about a different distribution of seeds but the reality is that making the event more global and making it appeal to a bigger potential audience increases it's chances of being profitable and thus being repeated. If it makes a profit then it will almost certainly happen every year and that is a fantastic thing.
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28 Koreans
4 from the rest of the world
It's a world championship-the best of the best, not a pity party.
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Personally I would prefer WCS to be a teamleague instead of individual league. Makes more sense to have 5-7 top players from each country (drafted through individual tournaments) to go through a proleague (non-all kill) format. It resolves a lot of seeding issues and we get to see more time/variety of each top players.
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World Championship should be like the olympics. Jamaica has the best, for example, sprinters. But we only see like 2-4 of them in each event (because there are limitations). I am sure if it was just by pure speed, then every preliminary heat would be filled with almost all Jamaicans, and that would be pretty stupid to watch for the purpose of the olympics. Even though other countries may suck, its nice to see all those random guys for small countries, even though they lag 2-3 seconds behind the top runners, still have a chance to sprint with the best in the world
World Championships are supposed to be about bringing representatives with talent from all over the world together in one spot to compete. If it was only about koreans, it would suck because it doesnt bring the world together for esports...
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I think it is fine the way it is. The skill system is basicly giving 75% to koreans so no I dont want that. While everything else is a compromise and there is no telling what split would be fair.
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Soooo hmmm you complain Ukraine and Sweden don't have a world final spot, and then advise to remove nearly all national seeds ? :D
If anything, I'd have given a few more to countries known to have good players..
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they only real way to do it would fairly would be many massive online open qualifiers for each server with each server getting a number of seeds proportional to size of participants, or or game owners, hmm actually my idea could be flawed as well, seems like a difficult thing to do absolutely objectively...
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The problem was Sweden didn't get a direct seed, not that other got too many.
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if you want to go by skill then just put abunch of koreans in there. The game sold alot of copies in the US which is why it gets that many seeds not to mention americans made the damn game.
Its harder to qualify in europe cause theres alot better players, just like its harder in korea. Doesnt really matter its not our fault what region you are born in.
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Translation of OP
"Give Sweden more chances because they failed to qualify  "
How can you want a tournament purely on skill and not just give Korea 30 to 32/32 spots in the tournament
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EPT
