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Thought I would make a topic about the WCS qualification system as it bothers me quite a bit and there seems not to be too much debate regarding it. I should mention that I think WCS is an amazing tournament and it is in my mind the first legit world championship tournament in SC2. Thus it annoys me that the system for qualifying to WCS world final is far from ideal.
The Issue
The fact that neither Ukraine nor Sweden had a player qualified for the world final bothers me as these two nations are frequently mentioned when discussing which nation is the strongest behind South Korea (and yes I am from Sweden, every one get angry now and then we move on with the topic). This is of course to a big extent because the players from these nations did not play good enough but also partially a result of an unfair qualification system. If you on the other hand look at US they have 6 players qualified. If China or another Asian country takes one spots in the Asian qualifier there will be as many US players as Koreans in the world final. I am sorry US, but that is just straight up retarded.
My argument would thus be that skill should have a greater role in the seeding/qualification process. Then of course the first thing that comes to mind is why Korea doesn’t get like 20-25 of the 32 seeds. Well first off it would not be a world final with 75% of the players coming from one nation. Second will Korea have probably around 6-7 players represented regardless. I agree that Korea should probably have a few more “seeds”, but still with 6-7 players of the caliber of Creator and Seed Korea have more than a realistic chance to bring home the title regardless.
There are a number of things that annoys me with the qualification system. First I think that the direct qualifications for the winners of some nations qualifiers should be removed. It is just completely unfair and does not reflect the SC2 level of the countries. They only country I possible could think off that should have one is China, as it is kind of unfair that they have to compete against the Koreans already in their continental final. Korea does not need it, they will roll over the Asian qualifiers regardless. And besides Korea does no other country “clearly” deserves one, thus should there not be a arbitrary selection of some countries that have direct qualification.
Second the distribution of seeds over the globe is debatable to say the least. Oceania and SA qualifiers could be discussed. I think for instance giving 2 seeds to Oceania is questionable as they neither have the population nor the SC2 level to make that argument imho. The main thing though is of course NA. NA should not have 9 slots. Okay there are good players in NA and there are many viewers there, but 9 slots? If NA had 7 slots I think it would have served the same purpose without being mind-numbingly unfair against the rest of the world. Having 9 seeds for NA also makes for an overall less interesting world final and some of these “privileged” qualifiers will get stomped once they run into the Koreans.
Finally the same thing for the continental finals. Germany should for instance not have gotten 4 seeds in EU final+ a direct qualification spot. While Ukraine on the other hand got two seeds. The 4th player from Germany, Krass, had I never heard of before and it turns out his most notable achievement is a second place in a zotac tournament. While players such as Naniwa, Sase, Morrow, Fraer, Kas and Dimaga are standing on the side line? I am sorry but at this moment there is no way in hell I could see Krass being a better representative for EU compared to the 6 other players mentioned.
You could also make an argument that it is poor from for a nation perspective. Due to the fact that most strong countries are European. It sound a little weird since Korea is so completely dominating but it is still true that out of the 15 best SC2 countries I would about 11 are in EU. With to the current system 5-6 strong EU countries are guaranteed to not have a represent for the nation in the world final. Or you could also say it like that out of the best 15 countries 33-40% will not have a player in the world final.
While US due to a pure number game US is likely to have 4-6 players and Australia 2.
Maybe it is just me but when I think of an ideal world championship tournament, I think of a battle between the top Koreans against the best players of the world that culminates in a nail biting competition between Korea and the world. I think this is what majority off all the viewer’s actually want. I we want to achieve this the best players must have a decent chance of qualifying.
The current qualification seeds
National winner qualifiers
1 Germany
1 France
1 Russia
1 China
1 Taiwan
1 South Korea
1 USA
1 Canada
Continental qualifications seeds
NA 7
Asia 6
EU 6
SA 3
SEA 2
My suggestion
National winner qualifier
1 China
Continental qualifications seeds
Asia 10
EU 10
NA 7
SA 3
SEA 1
Simpler and better adapted to bring the top players from the world to the final, while at the same time (most probably) increase the number of Korean players attending.
Finally my main point is not that it should be exactly this way, just that the current system is kind of shit imo ^.^
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National qualifiers won't go away any time soon. Blizz wants to foster the SC2 scene in individual countries as to reduce it's reliance in the Korean market.
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So from what I gathered, please correct me if I'm wrong OP, but the number of seeds offered should be by current skill level and tournament performance rather than number of sales of sc2 in that country. Makes sense.
/signed
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On September 17 2012 18:53 Incomplet wrote:
So from what I gathered, please correct me if I'm wrong OP, but the number of seeds offered should be by current skill level and tournament performance rather than number of sales of sc2 in that country. Makes sense.
/signed
Why does that make sense?
As the OP pointed out if we used nothing but that metric Korea should hold ~25 seeds of the 32 seed tournament.
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Admit it, your just mad cause Nani/Sase didnt get in 
Not really thread worthy, they had to distribute the seeds, they used a valid idea with the number of sc2 licenses. Imagine if they would have started another NA/EU war over who's better.
Shitfest Inc!
But really, its funny, cause we all know youre just mad Naniwa's not in :D
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I think the NA and SA should be combined like the Europe tournament and 6 seeds given total. The quality in both regions is really quite low compared to Asia/eu.
I think:
8 Asia
8 Eu
6 Am
2 SEA
And 8 national qualifiers
Would be a well rounded way to do it
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On September 17 2012 19:03 MateShade wrote:
I think the NA and SA should be combined like the Europe tournament and 6 seeds given total. The quality in both regions is really quite low compared to Asia/eu.
I think:
8 Asia
8 Eu
6 Am
2 SEA
And 8 national qualifiers
Would be a well rounded way to do it
I agree, but others do not, so unless our opinion is somehow better than that of others.... using the license metric is the most objective way to go about things.
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Somewhere between license #'s and the OP's skill system is the answer.
License #'s weighted by performance? Idk, but neither alone are ideal.
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i like the wcs in its current form a lot, even if they would get rid of the german seed, in terms of pure skill this tournament would have 30 koreans, we have that one already (the GSL)
imo blizzard did really well if you think about it, of course they cannot imitate a true world championship like football for example, but focused on their game, where its played etc, their idea of the wcs comes pretty close.
so i respectfully disagree OP, i find blizzards approach really good, and who could objectively dare to give seeds according to skill of region? that would mean 30 koreans as well btw, blizzards approach is solid, no gut feeling involved.
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No mvp no mc no nestea no need watch that tournament ,no just kidding but still i miss them in this tourney i think all gsl winners have to be there to purely and only after this will be pure result who is better in world. Now i can cheer only for grubby and creator others i dont know or not that cool ,maybe sen will show something but still world champion will be not that pure god of sc2 title without beating long run best koreans as mc nestea seed and mvp is....
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On September 17 2012 18:57 Douillos wrote:Admit it, your just mad cause Nani/Sase didnt get in Not really thread worthy, they had to distribute the seeds, they used a valid idea with the number of sc2 licenses. Imagine if they would have started another NA/EU war over who's better. Shitfest Inc! But really, its funny, cause we all know youre just mad Naniwa's not in :D
Well to be honest I am not the biggest Naniwa fan but regardless yeah the fact that no Swedish player qualified defently contributed to me making this post. Cause it made me even more annoyed about the current system. My personal motives for making the post is however irrelevant in the assessment of the current system is ideal or not.
And yes I am well aware how the current system work, my post however makes an argument that it is shit if you try reading it. I think for instance that very few viewers could with an honest heart say that US deserve to have 5 players in the world final. Theoretically they might be tied with Korea for most seeds, or potentially be the second well most represented country by some margin.
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On September 17 2012 18:53 Incomplet wrote:
So from what I gathered, please correct me if I'm wrong OP, but the number of seeds offered should be by current skill level and tournament performance rather than number of sales of sc2 in that country. Makes sense.
/signed
Yeah to be fair it is an compromise between giving the best players a good chance of attending while at the same time prevent the world final from having 75% of all the players from South Korea, which in my mind would make for much less interesting tournament.
I still think that numbers of licenses could play a small role in qualification system but to a much smaller degree then it is in the current system.
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should be 10 from korea, 8 from EU 8 from NA+LA, 4 from china, 2 from SEA/ANZ imho
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The current qualification seeds
National winner qualifiers
1 Germany
1 France
1 Russia
1 China
1 Taiwan
1 South Korea
1 USA
1 Canada
Continental qualifications seeds
NA 7
Asia 6
EU 6
SA 3
SEA 2
New system:
National winner qualifiers
Remove Taiwan, Canada and Korea
Add Sweden, Spain and Ukraine
1 Germany
1 France
1 Russia
1 Sweden
1 Ukraine
1 Spain
1 USA
1 China
Continental qualifications seeds
NA gets 12 seeds to both Americas continentals
SA gets 4 seeds to both Americas continentals
6 seeds to world finals.
China gets 8 seeds to Asia continentals
SEA gets 4 seeds to Asia continentals
Taiwan gets 2 seeds to Asia continentals
Others 2 seeds for other Asia countries(qualification process like Europe combined qualifiers)
4 seeds to world finals.
Korea has their own qualifiers
8 seeds to world finals.
Europe has their own qualifiers
6 seeds to world finals.
Final result:
Europe 13 seeds.
Korea 8 seeds.
Americas 7 seeds.
Asia(except Korea): 5 seeds.
I just solved this issue. If Blizzard wants to buy my idea they can PM me.
#ninja edit, yes it is copyrighted
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Actually, I am more bothered by the location of the world final than the number and amount of seeds given to different nations and continents. Sure, as a German i consider it ridiculous that we get a seed at the world finals when none of our players has been good enough to attain a seed by playing on the european level. All of them are mediocre at best. With Socke being our seed for the world finals despite him playing on an underwhelming level for the last couple of months. But like you said if the goal had been to make a tourney with the most skillful players of the world, Korea should have gotten three quarters of all seeds. But they tried to include some players with regard to the huge playerbase of those countries.
But why in the fucking name of the devil and Kthulu did they decide to let the world finale take place in China? WHY? China is completely irrelevant for Starcraft, the chinese playerbase is tiny. I would have understood if they had decided to do in the United States considering the fact that Blizzard is an american company after all and the playerbase is quite big in the States. Europe would have been fine as well, biggest playerbase of all regions. South Korea is considered to be the mecca of Esports by many, another good choice.
Fuck China. I guess they are trying to attract some attention for Starcraft in China but its not even going to work. The chinese will stick to Dota anyways. Just such a waste to make the tourney in China if you ask me  .
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On September 17 2012 19:31 LennoxPM wrote:
The current qualification seeds
National winner qualifiers
1 Germany
1 France
1 Russia
1 China
1 Taiwan
1 South Korea
1 USA
1 Canada
Continental qualifications seeds
NA 7
Asia 6
EU 6
SA 3
SEA 2
New system:
National winner qualifiers
Remove Taiwan, Canada and Korea
Add Sweden, Spain and Ukraine
1 Germany
1 France
1 Russia
1 Sweden
1 Ukraine
1 Spain
1 USA
1 China
Continental qualifications seeds
NA gets 12 seeds to both Americas continentals
SA gets 4 seeds to both Americas continentals
6 seeds to world finals.
China gets 8 seeds to Asia continentals
SEA gets 4 seeds to Asia continentals
Taiwan gets 2 seeds to Asia continentals
Others 2 seeds for other Asia countries(qualification process like Europe combined qualifiers)
4 seeds to world finals.
Korea has their own qualifiers
8 seeds to world finals.
Europe has their own qualifiers
6 seeds to world finals.
Final result:
Europe 13 seeds.
Korea 8 seeds.
Americas 7 seeds.
Asia(except Korea): 5 seeds.
I just solved this issue. If Blizzard wants to buy my idea they can PM me.
#ninja edit, yes it is copyrighted
What will the groups/brackets look like with 33 players?
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I'd remove the national qualifiers completely, reduce US seeds and run with:
7 seeds Europe
9 seeds Asia
6 seeds NA
4 seeds SA
2 seeds SEA
4 seeds to be awarded at blizzards discretion similar to code S seeds in GSL <- not many complaints about these
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It's not about skill it's about growing the scene across all countries not just those already thriving.
SC2 is so new that building it up is just as important as rewarding those at the top.
You talk about how it needs to be interesting so not just being all korean but instead suggest "All Korean and all where I'm from, Europe" and even suggest more spots for Europe then Asia. If you want to follow the approach of let's put the highest skilled and most deserving players in it HAS to be 90% Koreans you can't just say "we'll put more koreans then other countries, but not as many as is worth their skill". You can't pick and choose like that either it's all skill or all based on something else like promoting eSports in regions based on games sales.
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I agree, I mean four seeds for Germany in WCS finals? I mean if there would be more spots overall I would agree, but I mean you can argue that there are quite some top player from Germany (Socke, Hasu, TLO, Darkforce,..), but I mean not seeing Dimaga, Kas from Ukraine or Nani, Sase and Morrow or Cytoplasm made me kinda sad.
And also 9 seats for US, I mean lets face it, there are not 9 player who really can compete in finals (besides others who will get crushed nontheless), but thats not the real point, because this event should represent as many countries as possible right? So why so many US-player? Ok the only US player I can think of whould have a chance are Huk and Idra (sry Incontrol but no^^) (and also player like scarlett, vibe and so on... I mean no not rly), so give like 6-7 spots to NA and like 1 more for east EU and 1 direct for china (which I think is a really great idea).
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On September 17 2012 19:37 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 19:31 LennoxPM wrote:
The current qualification seeds
National winner qualifiers
1 Germany
1 France
1 Russia
1 China
1 Taiwan
1 South Korea
1 USA
1 Canada
Continental qualifications seeds
NA 7
Asia 6
EU 6
SA 3
SEA 2
New system:
National winner qualifiers
Remove Taiwan, Canada and Korea
Add Sweden, Spain and Ukraine
1 Germany
1 France
1 Russia
1 Sweden
1 Ukraine
1 Spain
1 USA
1 China
Continental qualifications seeds
NA gets 12 seeds to both Americas continentals
SA gets 4 seeds to both Americas continentals
6 seeds to world finals.
China gets 8 seeds to Asia continentals
SEA gets 4 seeds to Asia continentals
Taiwan gets 2 seeds to Asia continentals
Others 2 seeds for other Asia countries(qualification process like Europe combined qualifiers)
4 seeds to world finals.
Korea has their own qualifiers
8 seeds to world finals.
Europe has their own qualifiers
6 seeds to world finals.
Final result:
Europe 13 seeds.
Korea 8 seeds.
Americas 7 seeds.
Asia(except Korea): 5 seeds.
I just solved this issue. If Blizzard wants to buy my idea they can PM me.
#ninja edit, yes it is copyrighted What will the groups/brackets look like with 33 players?
Europe 12 seeds. T.T i misscalculated. Now my system is worth even more money.
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EPT
