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NASL invites DRG, MMA, Violet and Taeja to S4 - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
297 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 All
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
September 02 2012 00:00 GMT
#281
On September 02 2012 08:57 BathTubNZ wrote:
I guess they waived the team requirement.


It was always a team/sponsorship requirement, iirc. That's why players like White-Ra were allowed to play every season. Although I am confused about Morrow.
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
Doubting
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada981 Posts
September 02 2012 01:31 GMT
#282
Hope Violet doesn't forfeit.
Life: The New Champion!!
Morton
Profile Joined July 2012
United States152 Posts
September 02 2012 01:36 GMT
#283
really hope they accept because DRG vs taeja will definitely be the best match of NASL
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
September 02 2012 01:46 GMT
#284
They've all accepted.
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
BathTubNZ
Profile Joined December 2011
New Zealand2556 Posts
September 02 2012 01:49 GMT
#285
On September 02 2012 09:00 Dexington wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2012 08:57 BathTubNZ wrote:
I guess they waived the team requirement.


It was always a team/sponsorship requirement, iirc. That's why players like White-Ra were allowed to play every season. Although I am confused about Morrow.


Maybe they won't kick you out if you are already in.
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
September 02 2012 01:57 GMT
#286
I always laugh when idiots ask why people get invites... Some players get massive viewership, most of the time they are the best players and NASL went and picked fan favorites/best players and people still bitch.

qualifying =/= best skill, a lucky bo3 where someone goes 11/11rax twice and manages to luck out of 10pool 10pool in a zvz can close out a top player with a mediocre player and then we get an entire tournament of mediocre players... Invites = good thing.
FoTG fighting!
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
September 02 2012 02:03 GMT
#287
On September 02 2012 10:57 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
I always laugh when idiots ask why people get invites... Some players get massive viewership, most of the time they are the best players and NASL went and picked fan favorites/best players and people still bitch.

qualifying =/= best skill, a lucky bo3 where someone goes 11/11rax twice and manages to luck out of 10pool 10pool in a zvz can close out a top player with a mediocre player and then we get an entire tournament of mediocre players... Invites = good thing.


If they didn't get invites, the people would just complain (like they have in the past) that NASL doesn't have the best players in the world competing.
Gatesleeper
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada300 Posts
September 02 2012 02:57 GMT
#288
Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching.

Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective.

http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012

There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no?
A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites.

The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate)

That's well and good, but what about some other players like:
Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place
Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year
Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner

I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list.
Gatesleeper
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada300 Posts
September 02 2012 03:06 GMT
#289
Another thing that's been niggling me about the NASL is that too many players from a given season are automatically given a spot in the next season. It seems odd to me that 5 players who went 3-5 in season 3 are given a spot in Season 4 automatically. Meanwhile, you've got dozens of good players, including at least a dozen great ones, vying for a measly 4 spots in the qualifiers, and another measly 4 spots in invites.

It seems to me there's a problem with the system when you have to decide whether it's MMA or MVP that gets to play in the NASL 4 while Hwangsin, Targa, qxc, Mana, and Vibe are automatically in on mediocre season 3 performances.

Also, remember the open tournament from last season? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/North_American_Star_League_Season_3/Open_Tournament
In a tournament with a noticeable absence in A list talent, you've got 4 spots into the NASL4. Compare that to the huge list of names competing for 4 spots in the NASL 4 qualifiers. It seems to me that if you want an easy way into the NASL, you should wait for the open tournament.

Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-02 03:19:35
September 02 2012 03:16 GMT
#290
On September 02 2012 11:57 Gatesleeper wrote:
Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching.

Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective.

http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012

There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no?
A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites.

The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate)

That's well and good, but what about some other players like:
Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place
Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year
Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner

I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list.


Stop nitpicking. There is no perfect system, and NASL's invites are fine. The 5 invited players are all players that will bring in viewers AND have demonstrated strong play. That should be sufficient
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Greendotz
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2053 Posts
September 02 2012 14:06 GMT
#291
I’m really interested in this scoring method and am looking forward to seeing the full list published (partly because I’m a massive nerd and love lists and also because I want to see just how awesome MC is). Fair play to Fodan for spending his time crunching out these numbers, no doubt it was an incredibly laborious task.

To me it all seems pretty solid apart from the decay system (which to be fair has been acknowledged several times in this thread). The biggest problem I have with this is it seems to favour people who played more recently. Say a guy gets 3 RO32 spots in Homestory, GSL and IEM (109.5 points) from Jan till Feb, then nothing till August and loses all their points and are out ranked by a person who got just 1 RO32 spot in ASUS August. Of course you could argue that most recent performances are the most important (this is true even more so in SC2) and this system will improve the longer its used but I still feel it could be improved. The tennis ATP system seems to have one of the best deduction systems, it deducts points based on previous results from the same tournament (so if you won a GSL the only way to not have points deducted is to win the next GSL, or at least I think that’s how it works, I’m not 100% sure). Of course the drawback to this method is that it’s pretty damn complicated :S

Either way seriously can’t wait for NASL 4. NASL 3 has been the tournament I enjoyed the most this year (by a long way) and they’ve improved by leaps and bounds since the first season. Also I’ve finally got an internet connection that isn’t powered by a hamster wheel so I can finally justify a HD pass :D
Gatesleeper
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada300 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-02 17:05:21
September 02 2012 17:04 GMT
#292
Yup, that is how the ATP ranking works. You earn X amount of points at a given tournament, and you keep those points until one year passes and that same tournament comes up again. Then, the points you had earned the previous year is your "points defending". If you do worse than you did the previous year, you lose points. If you do better, you gain points. Or if you achieve the same result, your points remain static.

It's a decent system, but not one that could work in the current sc2 pro scene, because our tournaments don't follow any sort of calendar year, except IEM, MLG, and Dreamhack.

I think the decay system is fine. GSL uses a similar system to determine their rankings.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
September 02 2012 17:09 GMT
#293
I really love how NASL tries to make a totally impartial ranking to pick their invites. It is not perfect, but more fair than any other invite systems out there.
Off-season = best season
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
September 02 2012 17:24 GMT
#294
On September 02 2012 11:57 Gatesleeper wrote:
Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching.

Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective.

http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012

There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no?
A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites.

The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate)

That's well and good, but what about some other players like:
Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place
Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year
Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner

I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list.
On August 31 2012 00:53 Yonnua wrote:
I make it something along the lines of:

1. MC ~2500
2. Violet ~1700
3. Stephano ~1500
4. DRG ~1450
5. MKP ~1400
6. Taeja ~1250
7. MMA ~1150
8. Alive ~1150
9. Puma ~1150
10. Polt ~1050
11. Hero ~1050
12. Nerchio ~1000
13. Ret ~950
14. Alicia ~900
15. Mvp ~850
16. Oz ~700
17. Naniwa ~700
18. Symbol ~700
19. Nestea ~650
20. Dimaga ~650

But those are only rough because the methodology isn't 100% explicit when it comes to in progress tournaments and how the decay works. Those are just rough values to give some kind of indication.

Which means Mvp might be the secret invite, or it could be Oz or Naniwa.


And if you read the rules, you'd know that only IPL and GSL count for Squirtle and neither WCS count for Scarlett.
fairymonger
Profile Joined June 2011
United States81 Posts
September 03 2012 10:46 GMT
#295
GOGO taeja!
Never give up on your dreams. Without dreams man is nothing
MrMedic
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada452 Posts
September 04 2012 01:32 GMT
#296
This is really awesome, if the finals are in Toronto. That would be awesome but I hope if they are there actually in Toronto and not in Mississauga with little to nothing around it compared to Toronto.
Atrbyg
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States513 Posts
September 04 2012 01:37 GMT
#297
Just saw this. Awesome invites. Really nice job by NASL to form a great Season 4 through these invites and qualifiers,
roachra
Profile Joined June 2012
14 Posts
September 18 2012 11:51 GMT
#298
so where is the full list?
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