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I cant believe people are having trouble understanding the decay system...or rather, accepting it. It's a good invite system..made me more interested in watching, as I suspect mos people are too
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On August 31 2012 12:42 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 12:33 BathTubNZ wrote:On August 31 2012 12:26 Luepert wrote:On August 31 2012 11:18 sam05396 wrote:On August 31 2012 10:22 Luepert wrote:On August 31 2012 10:19 Toganas wrote:
The decay makes sense as it will allow them to keep the system in the future without having results from the past influence it too heavily. At this point next year, Leenock's current MLG win will have no impact on his standings, but right now he has a lot of points from a recent tournament. People will always complain, but this seems like a good system. The top 4 people will always have at lest 1 point right? So if they each lose 1 a day, they will still be in the same order. assuming no tournaments are played for the next year and that all these players will get eliminated from nasl ur point would matter I'm talking from a pure ranking system. No top pro would ever get to 0 and since they all have the same decay it will be like there is no decay at all. So if they always take the top 4, it would never deviate from who the top 4 would be without decay. Except you don't earn points at the same rate. Exactly. The people who earn more points are still on top. Example: MMA has 1000 points. DRG has 1050 points. 300 days pass, MMA has 700, DRG has 750. Same difference. The only way they would switch places is if MMA were to win more than DRG. But if he did, he would pass DRG by the same amount in both systems. God this is hard to explain, people can still pass each other, but at any moment in the future when they take the top 4, it will be the same 4 people that would be on top in a no decay system because they would have the same amount of decay as each other.
This makes sense for two players that both have lots of points.
But what if a new guy turns up and starts winning stuff left and right?
Because he's starting at zero, he will catch the top players faster due to the decay.
It's a way for us to try and keep our top rated guys timely, as folks who are on top have to have some semblance of recent results.
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On August 31 2012 06:14 patronage wrote:
Whats with the MMA hate?
He will do fine......
People have short term memory loss. If a player hasn't won a major tournament in the past month, it seems that they are suddenly bad. 
Silly how people are complaining about MMA. 2 GSL titles AND he's accomplished more than any foreigner in 2012 AND he's in Code S. Is he as dominant as he was during late 2011? No, but he's still better than most of the players in the NASL now.
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On August 31 2012 12:40 Waxangel wrote:on the same note, are you going to ask ppl to ask for refunds if DRG is eliminated  ?
That's not going to happen, Wax!
Don't jinx him!
I keel you!
lol
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Really looking forward to MMA and DRG's performance in the NASL. Hopefully MMA and DRG will both play great.
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Does an awesome paint image help people understand how decay works?
+ Show Spoiler +
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I'd like to actually see the leaderboard...
Great invites for NASL !
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I think this system needs some changes.
MLG Arenas should give less than an actual MLG Championship
IEM challenges should give less points than the World Championship.
GSL Code S should give more.
TSL should be removed or give very little points, its an online tournament, things like FXOpen Invitational has better players overall.
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On August 31 2012 13:03 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 06:14 patronage wrote:
Whats with the MMA hate?
He will do fine...... People have short term memory loss. If a player hasn't won a major tournament in the past month, it seems that they are suddenly bad. Silly how people are complaining about MMA. 2 GSL titles AND he's accomplished more than any foreigner in 2012 AND he's in Code S. Is he as dominant as he was during late 2011? No, but he's still better than most of the players in the NASL now.
Stephano?
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I like the decay system, and inwas suprised that mma had that many points, i hope hes still able to play and practice
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In my eyes, there are tournaments with Taeja, and there are tournaments without Taeja. Thank you NASL.
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On August 31 2012 05:20 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 05:07 Clbull wrote:On August 31 2012 03:43 FrodaN wrote:On August 31 2012 03:14 kiy0 wrote:On August 31 2012 01:09 cmgillett wrote:On August 31 2012 01:05 kiy0 wrote:On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote:
Why are they still using invites? The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?". NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals. The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up. This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games. 2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching. I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..." This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc. We totally agree. At the very least, 10k~ views on a nightly basis would be considered the borderline of doing moderately alright. We hope provide that nightly competition is a MUST watch similar to how every GSL night there seems to be just that one match everyone is waiting for. There is still a healthy mix of foreigners and we recognize how important it is to keep them in. However, the fact that players who perform well across many tournaments means that the invites are always players who have a ton of exposure and respect. The faceless A-team Koreans won't ever qualify unless they get out to the major tournaments or win every primarily cup like TSL. Even then, that's some decent hype and exposure  On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote:
Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year. Read Bitter's post. MMA has placed high in several tournaments this season and won two events. No one will argue that he hasn't shown dominating results recently, but even MVP went through a "slump" period as well when he was going through surgery recovery (and still is). On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote:
I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out. I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy. The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement  ) I think it's your format. Seven to eight weeks of round-robin groups where placing highly doesn't really affect your chances of actually winning NASL. Plus the week of preparation players are given before each matchup in the Regular Season is a complete contradiction of your Finals format where you just crap out game after game in a three day timeframe. Here's an idea, separate the NASL into divisions (Division A, B and C in order of prestige), have 16 players (separated into 2 groups of 8) per Division and play each group out. By the end, only the top 3 players per group should make it to the playoffs, with the 1st place finisher needing to win only one Bo5 series to reach the finals. Then... make the finals a huge bigged up Best of 9 showmatch between the Division A victors in the playoffs. Give each player 2 weeks to prepare and put $30,000 on the line. Suddenly.... you are gonna see shit that is GSL Finals good. As for other divisions, make the bottom 3 spot a relegation zone and the top 3 spot a promotion zone, so if you get bottom 3 of Division C, you're out. Suddenly, NASL means a whole bloody lot more. Or if you like, make the best and the worst player in a group face instant promotion/relegation and the next two in order compete for promotion/relegation. Our offline final for season 3 only included of the league's top 8 players. That gave players three days (or was it 2? lol) to prepare and play a grand total of three matches. While the format you describe would certainly be exciting, it's not really our vision for the league. Perhaps a 9 week season is too long - and this is something we've considered, and may tamper with in the future - but we do not want to deny players like Lowely the awesome opportunity to put together impressive runs like the one he made in season 3.
What I meant was.... take this for a hypothetical example....
In the Ro8, Stephano has to play Puzzle but if he advances to the Semifinals, he has to play either Ret or PuMa meaning he either has to prepare for a ZvZ or a TvZ on top of the ZvP. Then if Stephano makes it to the finals he has to face either Keen, Ostojiy, HuK or MajOr, meaning he has all manner of playstyles and races to practice against.
You're hardly going to get "GSL Finals" quality games in the NASL Grand Finals if players only get 3 days to prepare for the three series that will be thrown in quick succession (which could be 7 possible playstyles to pit yourself against.)
My point was that NASL could have filled a niche that only the GSL and OSL fulfill in their leagues, giving players a week to prepare for each series. NASL does this nicely.... before the Grand Finals. And then it just risks turning into every other NA/EU tournament, a clusterfuck of possible games where you have to rely on your skill in such a situation instead of being given time to prepare.
This is why I don't really like leagues like MLG or IPL. They just feel like hours and hours of constant games rather than being a big event played out over several weeks in consumable chunks.
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On August 31 2012 21:43 Hiea wrote:
I think this system needs some changes.
MLG Arenas should give less than an actual MLG Championship
IEM challenges should give less points than the World Championship.
GSL Code S should give more.
TSL should be removed or give very little points, its an online tournament, things like FXOpen Invitational has better players overall.
idk why u think mlg arenas should give less in some cases they are even harder tournaments, i think the system works great in all honesty
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On August 31 2012 22:44 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 05:20 MrBitter wrote:On August 31 2012 05:07 Clbull wrote:On August 31 2012 03:43 FrodaN wrote:On August 31 2012 03:14 kiy0 wrote:On August 31 2012 01:09 cmgillett wrote:On August 31 2012 01:05 kiy0 wrote:On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote:
Why are they still using invites? The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?". NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals. The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up. This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games. 2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching. I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..." This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc. We totally agree. At the very least, 10k~ views on a nightly basis would be considered the borderline of doing moderately alright. We hope provide that nightly competition is a MUST watch similar to how every GSL night there seems to be just that one match everyone is waiting for. There is still a healthy mix of foreigners and we recognize how important it is to keep them in. However, the fact that players who perform well across many tournaments means that the invites are always players who have a ton of exposure and respect. The faceless A-team Koreans won't ever qualify unless they get out to the major tournaments or win every primarily cup like TSL. Even then, that's some decent hype and exposure On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote:
Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year. Read Bitter's post. MMA has placed high in several tournaments this season and won two events. No one will argue that he hasn't shown dominating results recently, but even MVP went through a "slump" period as well when he was going through surgery recovery (and still is). On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote:
I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out. I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy. The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement ) I think it's your format. Seven to eight weeks of round-robin groups where placing highly doesn't really affect your chances of actually winning NASL. Plus the week of preparation players are given before each matchup in the Regular Season is a complete contradiction of your Finals format where you just crap out game after game in a three day timeframe. Here's an idea, separate the NASL into divisions (Division A, B and C in order of prestige), have 16 players (separated into 2 groups of 8) per Division and play each group out. By the end, only the top 3 players per group should make it to the playoffs, with the 1st place finisher needing to win only one Bo5 series to reach the finals. Then... make the finals a huge bigged up Best of 9 showmatch between the Division A victors in the playoffs. Give each player 2 weeks to prepare and put $30,000 on the line. Suddenly.... you are gonna see shit that is GSL Finals good. As for other divisions, make the bottom 3 spot a relegation zone and the top 3 spot a promotion zone, so if you get bottom 3 of Division C, you're out. Suddenly, NASL means a whole bloody lot more. Or if you like, make the best and the worst player in a group face instant promotion/relegation and the next two in order compete for promotion/relegation. Our offline final for season 3 only included of the league's top 8 players. That gave players three days (or was it 2? lol) to prepare and play a grand total of three matches. While the format you describe would certainly be exciting, it's not really our vision for the league. Perhaps a 9 week season is too long - and this is something we've considered, and may tamper with in the future - but we do not want to deny players like Lowely the awesome opportunity to put together impressive runs like the one he made in season 3. What I meant was.... take this for a hypothetical example.... In the Ro8, Stephano has to play Puzzle but if he advances to the Semifinals, he has to play either Ret or PuMa meaning he either has to prepare for a ZvZ or a TvZ on top of the ZvP. Then if Stephano makes it to the finals he has to face either Keen, Ostojiy, HuK or MajOr, meaning he has all manner of playstyles and races to practice against. You're hardly going to get "GSL Finals" quality games in the NASL Grand Finals if players only get 3 days to prepare for the three series that will be thrown in quick succession (which could be 7 possible playstyles to pit yourself against.) My point was that NASL could have filled a niche that only the GSL and OSL fulfill in their leagues, giving players a week to prepare for each series. NASL does this nicely.... before the Grand Finals. And then it just risks turning into every other NA/EU tournament, a clusterfuck of possible games where you have to rely on your skill in such a situation instead of being given time to prepare. This is why I don't really like leagues like MLG or IPL. They just feel like hours and hours of constant games rather than being a big event played out over several weeks in consumable chunks. silly, silly we all know stephano doesnt prepare for his matches :p
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Yay, Lets do this, MMA Hwaiting!!!!
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On August 31 2012 21:46 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 13:03 Bagration wrote:On August 31 2012 06:14 patronage wrote:
Whats with the MMA hate?
He will do fine...... People have short term memory loss. If a player hasn't won a major tournament in the past month, it seems that they are suddenly bad. Silly how people are complaining about MMA. 2 GSL titles AND he's accomplished more than any foreigner in 2012 AND he's in Code S. Is he as dominant as he was during late 2011? No, but he's still better than most of the players in the NASL now. Stephano?
Ro8 GSL, 1st IEM Kiev, 3rd IEM WC, 4th IPL 4, 1st Iron Squid.
Stephano's good, but MMA's achievement are better, with stronger GSL showings too.
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Yes, finally MMA getting invited to something else and hope to see him return to his former glory and get some more tournament results.
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Excellent, hopefully we see Naniwa play at his GSL level and not his IEM level. Fortunately the format in that regard should help him.
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I guess they waived the team requirement.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i46.tinypic.com/2vrtxtz.png)
