To ensure that the top players in the world have the opportunity to compete in NASL Season 4, the North American Star League is pleased to unveil its new NASL Leaderboard system which rewards the top earning players with a spot in the league.
The NASL Leaderboard standings are determined by a point system wherein StarCraft II professionals earn points for placing in the top 32 of major events occuring in 2012.
Players Invited for Season 4: At the time of invitation selection, the top four individuals in the NASL Leaderboard were:
• DRG • MMA • Violet • Taeja
Here is the system used for the NASL Leaderboard in nicely done picture form:
And those are four names that really stand out. I guess that much is a given seeing that the invites are given out due to performance in premier tournaments, but still. Hopefully we will see many good things from season four, it is hard to really predict anything else with how they have been functioning and improving since the inception of the league.
On August 30 2012 12:09 opterown wrote: really, mma still at the top of the leaderboard? o.O
Yeah, I feel like If they counted OSL round of 16, MVP's RECENT IEM, His fairly recent GSL, and consistant code s through all 2012 seasons it would be higher than MMA's older IEM, round of 48 code a and iron squid...
On August 30 2012 12:18 FrodaN wrote: Super excited to have them join the league! If anyone was wondering, these 4 along with MC, MKP, and Stephano easily top the list.
The full number crunch to validate why they are the 4 invites will be coming soon when MrBitter and I finish this project
So this project...based on mathematics...it is being spearheaded by...MrBitter?
In other news, my prediction is that the invites will be MC, MKP, Stephano and...someone else!
Jokes, jokes. Although that makes me want to find some old ESL videos of Rotterdam mocking MrBitter to the end of the world and back for his lack of rudimentary arithmetic skills.
I really like this idea for points and invites. Its a different take on the idea of winning points to qualify, distinct from MLG and TSL and offers more opportunities than the GSL invites.
On August 30 2012 12:18 FrodaN wrote: Super excited to have them join the league! If anyone was wondering, these 4 along with MC, MKP, and Stephano easily top the list.
The full number crunch to validate why they are the 4 invites will be coming soon when MrBitter and I finish this project
surprised that mvp isn't up there with his GSL and IEM. i wonder if mkp, mvp, declined, so that's why MMA etc are in?
OH! I love these 4, they're some of my very favorite players! Man, I wonder if MMA still wants to play though, he's definitely not as good as he was in his prime.
On August 30 2012 12:39 ArvickHero wrote: so .. OSL is not a premier tournament??? :S
well it only just started, not finished yet so they can't award the points from there just yet haha (i assume points are awarded after conclusion of tournament)
On August 30 2012 12:18 FrodaN wrote: Super excited to have them join the league! If anyone was wondering, these 4 along with MC, MKP, and Stephano easily top the list.
The full number crunch to validate why they are the 4 invites will be coming soon when MrBitter and I finish this project
surprised that mvp isn't up there with his GSL and IEM. i wonder if mkp, mvp, declined, so that's why MMA etc are in?
Yep. We invited MKP and he declined. We also invited Nerchio and he declined as well.
There's also another secret invite because someone dropped out of the league. He's the next ranked person after Taeja.
On August 30 2012 12:18 FrodaN wrote: Super excited to have them join the league! If anyone was wondering, these 4 along with MC, MKP, and Stephano easily top the list.
The full number crunch to validate why they are the 4 invites will be coming soon when MrBitter and I finish this project
surprised that mvp isn't up there with his GSL and IEM. i wonder if mkp, mvp, declined, so that's why MMA etc are in?
Yep. We invited MKP and he declined. We also invited Nerchio and he declined as well.
There's also another secret invite because someone dropped out of the league. He's the next ranked person after Taeja.
edit: He's not Korean either.
ah, ok, thanks for updating us! shame about the decline, would be nice to see mkp play haha
also, i bet the last invite is rotterdam, isn't it?
On August 30 2012 12:39 ArvickHero wrote: so .. OSL is not a premier tournament??? :S
OSL is included considering they have a qualification process for anyone not in KeSPA...meaning any one can enter. We count tournaments that have concluded. Thus, OSL and TSL points have not been added in yet. That list was just an example of many of the commonly thought of premier tournies
I think that WCS should be included in the qualifying list. Scarlett has earned herself major points with her performance. It would be amazing to see her in the NASL.
Could someone explain the possible pros and cons of the decay system? It seems unnecessary. To me that the decay system will not hurt first or second place players, it seems unfair for everyone beyond 10th place where every point matters.
On August 30 2012 12:49 TeslasPigeon wrote: Could someone explain the possible pros and cons of the decay system? It seems unnecessary. To me that the decay system will not hurt first or second place players, it seems unfair for everyone beyond 10th place where every point matters.
Pros: - Provides relevant tournament results. Can't just win 1 tournament and nothing else. i.e. Jjakji - Consistency is proven over time. 1 strong placing shouldn't mean you keep the points forever else you risk having "undeserving" players. - Decay is extremely minor as 1 point per day is nothing in comparison to how often tournaments run
Cons: - Extremely unforgiving to people who can't travel to events often
Believe it or not, there are several cases of players who place respectably in the top 16-32 all the time and have a strong ranking because of it. Grubby comes to mind here.
These aren't invites in the classical sense of the word. These players still qualified by performing better than anyone else in the world. Interesting piece of Trivia: Nerchio was one of our invites, but he declined participation in the league, allowing us to invite someone lower than him on our international ranking.
On August 30 2012 12:58 MrBitter wrote: These aren't invites in the classical sense of the word. These players still qualified by performing better than anyone else in the world. Interesting piece of Trivia: Nerchio was one of our invites, but he declined participation in the league, allowing us to invite someone lower than him on our international ranking.
On August 30 2012 13:01 Shinespark wrote: Did the players accept the invitation? It'd be really lame that NASL hype this up like crazy and then they all say no. xD
On August 30 2012 12:26 JJH777 wrote: GSL being valued equally to all those other tournaments is hilarious.
GSL happens much more frequently than these other events, and as such is actually valued more.
edit: weighted is probably the wrong word to use there, but because GSL happens just about once per month, the guys doing well there will end up with more points.
im pretty pleased with the invites, especially seeing MMA and DRG. havent seen them in a while and it's exciting to see what they have in store for everyone.
On August 30 2012 13:08 bsdaemon wrote: im pretty pleased with the invites, especially seeing MMA and DRG. havent seen them in a while and it's exciting to see what they have in store for everyone.
DRG played Jangbi like yesterday in OSL but we havent seen MMA very much at all and since DRG is practicing up for OSL and GSL and couldnt go to any MLGs this season I understand what you mean and I agree.
That's actually the most comprehensive, logical system I've ever seen used. I like how transparent it is. It'd be cool to see the top ten on the list actually and see who missed out.
Also great invites even without looking at points. These players are always exciting to watch. Hopefully DRG brings his A-game. I have faith he'll come around.
On August 30 2012 12:58 MrBitter wrote: These aren't invites in the classical sense of the word. These players still qualified by performing better than anyone else in the world. Interesting piece of Trivia: Nerchio was one of our invites, but he declined participation in the league, allowing us to invite someone lower than him on our international ranking.
Nerchio decline participation in an American Tournament?
UNHEARD OF!!
Oh... wait... -_-
Side question: Did Mvp qualify and turn it down too or did MMA somehow have more points?
On August 30 2012 13:33 fire_brand wrote: That's actually the most comprehensive, logical system I've ever seen used. I like how transparent it is. It'd be cool to see the top ten on the list actually and see who missed out.
Also great invites even without looking at points. These players are always exciting to watch. Hopefully DRG brings his A-game. I have faith he'll come around.
Full list and system will be up on a new website within a couple weeks.
There needs to be a link to a page that shows who's in the top bunch of players. I need to know if Squirtle declined or if he wasn't top 4. These top 4 basically just competed in every tournament. Startale doesn't give that great of an opportunity for their players to compete in foreign cups.
On August 30 2012 13:46 antifan wrote: And NASL chose not to invite a Protoss because why?.. A player like Squirtle would be perfect I think so.
They're not technically invites.
This is another method of qualification.
You earn points by finishing well in major tournaments.
Players with the most points will receive invites.
It's a performance based qualifier.
So 2nd place GSL and IPL is bad now? Also deep at red bull.
By our measurements, Squirtle has had 3 performances giving him points. IPL and 2 GSLs.
Violet has had 11 strong performances and won 2 events.
Now the argument remains whether we should put other tournaments at a higher value than others. We want to remove as much bias as possible from the system to filter out subjectivity. Some people consider IPL4 an insanely hard tournament because it measures marathon playing ability combined with 40+ koreans. GSL has preparation and mind games factored into it. It measures different skillsets.
We can't remove all bias (such as prize pool $$). Only safe way to is to equalize them and show performance across the board.
On August 30 2012 13:59 antifan wrote: There needs to be a link to a page that shows who's in the top bunch of players. I need to know if Squirtle declined or if he wasn't top 4. These top 4 basically just competed in every tournament. Startale doesn't give that great of an opportunity for their players to compete in foreign cups.
The full ranking will be online in a couple weeks.
I can tell you that Squirtle is currently rank 31 based on performance at major LANs.
You are 100% correct. There is a bias in this system towards players that participate in as many tournaments as possible. Our hope, however, is that ultimately, the guys on top - the invites - will always be representative of the best players in the world.
On August 30 2012 12:49 TeslasPigeon wrote: Could someone explain the possible pros and cons of the decay system? It seems unnecessary. To me that the decay system will not hurt first or second place players, it seems unfair for everyone beyond 10th place where every point matters.
Pros: - Provides relevant tournament results. Can't just win 1 tournament and nothing else. i.e. Jjakji - Consistency is proven over time. 1 strong placing shouldn't mean you keep the points forever else you risk having "undeserving" players. - Decay is extremely minor as 1 point per day is nothing in comparison to how often tournaments run
Cons: - Extremely unforgiving to people who can't travel to events often
Believe it or not, there are several cases of players who place respectably in the top 16-32 all the time and have a strong ranking because of it. Grubby comes to mind here.
Thank you for replying, but I still don't agree with the decay system. One first place finish isn't going to help as opposed to someone consistently making it in the top four. The disparity between points is only 73. A decaying system, as you said, hurts those unable to travel and will hurt players who place between 9-32nd where a difference of a single point could boost or lower your rank by 7 places. It might be more fair to make each separate rank differ in amount of points, rather than lumping 9 places into a set amount of points. If you want to reward people for showing up and competing at tournaments, you can and should; the current scale of points doesn't allow for such.
On August 30 2012 13:59 antifan wrote: There needs to be a link to a page that shows who's in the top bunch of players. I need to know if Squirtle declined or if he wasn't top 4. These top 4 basically just competed in every tournament. Startale doesn't give that great of an opportunity for their players to compete in foreign cups.
The full ranking will be online in a couple weeks.
I can tell you that Squirtle is currently rank 31 based on performance at major LANs.
You are 100% correct. There is a bias in this system towards players that participate in as many tournaments as possible. Our hope, however, is that ultimately, the guys on top - the invites - will always be representative of the best players in the world.
In this case, I think we're doing pretty well.
Well can you tell us where MC is? He should be number one.
On August 30 2012 13:59 antifan wrote: There needs to be a link to a page that shows who's in the top bunch of players. I need to know if Squirtle declined or if he wasn't top 4. These top 4 basically just competed in every tournament. Startale doesn't give that great of an opportunity for their players to compete in foreign cups.
The full ranking will be online in a couple weeks.
I can tell you that Squirtle is currently rank 31 based on performance at major LANs.
You are 100% correct. There is a bias in this system towards players that participate in as many tournaments as possible. Our hope, however, is that ultimately, the guys on top - the invites - will always be representative of the best players in the world.
In this case, I think we're doing pretty well.
Well can you tell us where MC is? He should be number one.
Hes already qualified for NASl because of last season.
On August 30 2012 13:59 antifan wrote: There needs to be a link to a page that shows who's in the top bunch of players. I need to know if Squirtle declined or if he wasn't top 4. These top 4 basically just competed in every tournament. Startale doesn't give that great of an opportunity for their players to compete in foreign cups.
The full ranking will be online in a couple weeks.
I can tell you that Squirtle is currently rank 31 based on performance at major LANs.
You are 100% correct. There is a bias in this system towards players that participate in as many tournaments as possible. Our hope, however, is that ultimately, the guys on top - the invites - will always be representative of the best players in the world.
In this case, I think we're doing pretty well.
Well can you tell us where MC is? He should be number one.
He is number one. By like... almost 1,000 points. He is way ahead of everyone else.
On August 30 2012 13:59 antifan wrote: There needs to be a link to a page that shows who's in the top bunch of players. I need to know if Squirtle declined or if he wasn't top 4. These top 4 basically just competed in every tournament. Startale doesn't give that great of an opportunity for their players to compete in foreign cups.
The full ranking will be online in a couple weeks.
I can tell you that Squirtle is currently rank 31 based on performance at major LANs.
You are 100% correct. There is a bias in this system towards players that participate in as many tournaments as possible. Our hope, however, is that ultimately, the guys on top - the invites - will always be representative of the best players in the world.
In this case, I think we're doing pretty well.
Well can you tell us where MC is? He should be number one.
Honestly, who let you out without your helmet?
As always, the remaining spots in the league are filled by players whom:
• Placed in the top 33 spots in NASL Season 3 • Placed in the top 4 of the Season 3 Open Tournament • Won one of the NASL Season 4 Qualifiers.
Therefore he is already qualified and does not require an invite. If you'd like to know how many points he has, search TLPD READ THE OP, and do the math yourself.
On August 30 2012 12:49 TeslasPigeon wrote: Could someone explain the possible pros and cons of the decay system? It seems unnecessary. To me that the decay system will not hurt first or second place players, it seems unfair for everyone beyond 10th place where every point matters.
Pros: - Provides relevant tournament results. Can't just win 1 tournament and nothing else. i.e. Jjakji - Consistency is proven over time. 1 strong placing shouldn't mean you keep the points forever else you risk having "undeserving" players. - Decay is extremely minor as 1 point per day is nothing in comparison to how often tournaments run
Cons: - Extremely unforgiving to people who can't travel to events often
Believe it or not, there are several cases of players who place respectably in the top 16-32 all the time and have a strong ranking because of it. Grubby comes to mind here.
Thank you for replying, but I still don't agree with the decay system. One first place finish isn't going to help as opposed to someone consistently making it in the top four. The disparity between points is only 73. A decaying system, as you said, hurts those unable to travel and will hurt players who place between 9-32nd where a difference of a single point could boost or lower your rank by 7 places. It might be more fair to make each separate rank differ in amount of points, rather than lumping 9 places into a set amount of points. If you want to reward people for showing up and competing at tournaments, you can and should; the current scale of points doesn't allow for such.
Problem with rewarding each individual placing is that most tournaments don't play games to determine placings beyond 3rd.
Admittedly, the decay is the part of our system that we're the most unsure of.
Ultimately we decided a win should be relevant for a year, and that other results should be proportionally relevant on a sliding scale.
We'll see what the rankings look like in a year, and if need be, will make some changes.
Honestly, though, I think it's pretty damn solid right now.
On August 30 2012 14:19 TAMinator wrote: I first read that as "NASA is inviting DRG ..." xD Nice invites, not sureif DRG + MMA has posted any results so far though
Yes, Taeja invite! Liquid always has a strong presence in the NASL with Ret and Hero making them constantly. Now with Taeja, Liquid is gonna own this tournament!!
On August 30 2012 14:42 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Yes, Taeja invite! Liquid always has a strong presence in the NASL with Ret and Hero making them constantly. Now with Taeja, Liquid is gonna own this tournament!!
Liquid has a very strong presence indeed, seeing that Sheth, TLO and Zenio are all qualified for season five.
On August 30 2012 14:32 Lysanias wrote: Did MMA accept it ? Considering he says he's not in shape for foreign events. (i know season 4 is not here for a while yet just wondering)
that might've been due to slayers not wanting him traveling, or not being able to foot the bill, etc
On August 30 2012 14:32 Lysanias wrote: Did MMA accept it ? Considering he says he's not in shape for foreign events. (i know season 4 is not here for a while yet just wondering)
that might've been due to slayers not wanting him traveling, or not being able to foot the bill, etc
/speculation
did iem pay for travel for group players? or am i making that up
On August 30 2012 12:49 TeslasPigeon wrote: Could someone explain the possible pros and cons of the decay system? It seems unnecessary. To me that the decay system will not hurt first or second place players, it seems unfair for everyone beyond 10th place where every point matters.
Pros: - Provides relevant tournament results. Can't just win 1 tournament and nothing else. i.e. Jjakji - Consistency is proven over time. 1 strong placing shouldn't mean you keep the points forever else you risk having "undeserving" players. - Decay is extremely minor as 1 point per day is nothing in comparison to how often tournaments run
Cons: - Extremely unforgiving to people who can't travel to events often
Believe it or not, there are several cases of players who place respectably in the top 16-32 all the time and have a strong ranking because of it. Grubby comes to mind here.
Thank you for replying, but I still don't agree with the decay system. One first place finish isn't going to help as opposed to someone consistently making it in the top four. The disparity between points is only 73. A decaying system, as you said, hurts those unable to travel and will hurt players who place between 9-32nd where a difference of a single point could boost or lower your rank by 7 places. It might be more fair to make each separate rank differ in amount of points, rather than lumping 9 places into a set amount of points. If you want to reward people for showing up and competing at tournaments, you can and should; the current scale of points doesn't allow for such.
Problem with rewarding each individual placing is that most tournaments don't play games to determine placings beyond 3rd.
Admittedly, the decay is the part of our system that we're the most unsure of.
Ultimately we decided a win should be relevant for a year, and that other results should be proportionally relevant on a sliding scale.
We'll see what the rankings look like in a year, and if need be, will make some changes.
Honestly, though, I think it's pretty damn solid right now.
In all fairness, your ranking is the best out of all the leagues. It does reward consistency than flavors. It can however, be even more consistent.
On August 30 2012 12:26 JJH777 wrote: GSL being valued equally to all those other tournaments is hilarious.
GSL happens much more frequently than these other events, and as such is actually valued more.
edit: weighted is probably the wrong word to use there, but because GSL happens just about once per month, the guys doing well there will end up with more points.
Umm what? There have only been 3 GSL's this year. That's less events than most of the other leagues you listed and no where near once per month.
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiick, long time lover of NASL, since season 1, hope we can get these guys in! Taeja and Violet will for sure join, but that would be awesome if MMA and DRG did as well! Especially DRG
On August 30 2012 12:26 JJH777 wrote: GSL being valued equally to all those other tournaments is hilarious.
GSL happens much more frequently than these other events, and as such is actually valued more.
edit: weighted is probably the wrong word to use there, but because GSL happens just about once per month, the guys doing well there will end up with more points.
Umm what? There have only been 3 GSL's this year. That's less events than most of the other leagues you listed and no where near once per month.
GSL is highly regarded in many people's eyes (especially my own). I don't take the tournament lightly in the slightest.
However, if we have to be honest with ourselves, it's a complete biased situation. GSL measures different kinds of skill compared to other tournaments. We have players that get far into GSL that aren't necessarily on top all the time. Players that succeed at GSL won't succeed in other tournaments and vice versa.
We try to remove as much human judgment as possible to have an objective system. For now, until we can get a strong measurement of why GSL is better objectively (and I want a reason to say this because I believe it is), we'll stick to this system.
On August 30 2012 12:26 JJH777 wrote: GSL being valued equally to all those other tournaments is hilarious.
GSL happens much more frequently than these other events, and as such is actually valued more.
edit: weighted is probably the wrong word to use there, but because GSL happens just about once per month, the guys doing well there will end up with more points.
Umm what? There have only been 3 GSL's this year. That's less events than most of the other leagues you listed and no where near once per month.
It was once a month or so last year which this includes and they have other events in GSL too sometimes.
On August 30 2012 12:26 JJH777 wrote: GSL being valued equally to all those other tournaments is hilarious.
GSL happens much more frequently than these other events, and as such is actually valued more.
edit: weighted is probably the wrong word to use there, but because GSL happens just about once per month, the guys doing well there will end up with more points.
Umm what? There have only been 3 GSL's this year. That's less events than most of the other leagues you listed and no where near once per month.
It was once a month or so last year which this includes and they have other events in GSL too sometimes.
On August 30 2012 12:26 JJH777 wrote: GSL being valued equally to all those other tournaments is hilarious.
GSL happens much more frequently than these other events, and as such is actually valued more.
edit: weighted is probably the wrong word to use there, but because GSL happens just about once per month, the guys doing well there will end up with more points.
Umm what? There have only been 3 GSL's this year. That's less events than most of the other leagues you listed and no where near once per month.
It was once a month or so last year which this includes and they have other events in GSL too sometimes.
arent they only using 2012?
Ok I was wrong apparently. Says it right at the end
On August 30 2012 12:58 MrBitter wrote: These aren't invites in the classical sense of the word. These players still qualified by performing better than anyone else in the world. Interesting piece of Trivia: Nerchio was one of our invites, but he declined participation in the league, allowing us to invite someone lower than him on our international ranking.
Wow, you're nerchio's biggest fanboy and he declined to be cast by you every week? Sorry to say, but doesn't sound like he's returning your love.
On August 30 2012 12:58 MrBitter wrote: These aren't invites in the classical sense of the word. These players still qualified by performing better than anyone else in the world. Interesting piece of Trivia: Nerchio was one of our invites, but he declined participation in the league, allowing us to invite someone lower than him on our international ranking.
Wow, you're nerchio's biggest fanboy and he declined to be cast by you every week? Sorry to say, but doesn't sound like he's returning your love.
Unrequited love. The story of my life.
And just to reassure everyone, all four of these guys have accepted, and will participate in season 4.
I have to say. I bought the first NASL season ticket to support foreign tournaments. But Season 1 was a big let down. So I haven't purchased since.
But if you're telling me DongRaeGu will be at the tournament. ...you can count on my support...along with my friends'. Here's to giving NASL another chance.
Hopefully MMA can come back and show some sick games again.I haven't seen him do bad ass for awhile. When will tournaments start inviting more KESPA players now that they're making a splash in the scene?
Big fan of NASL. Has quickly become my daily live content source. Highest quality stream bar none. New system is well implemented. Well done folks, looking forward to next season.
On August 30 2012 16:11 Danzo wrote: Hopefully MMA can come back and show some sick games again.I haven't seen him do bad ass for awhile. When will tournaments start inviting more KESPA players now that they're making a splash in the scene?
You can't invite a Kespa player unless you've struck a deal with Kespa itself . Though NASL could add OSL to the point system and just don't count the Kespa players's points .
On August 30 2012 16:11 Danzo wrote: Hopefully MMA can come back and show some sick games again.I haven't seen him do bad ass for awhile. When will tournaments start inviting more KESPA players now that they're making a splash in the scene?
You can't invite a Kespa player unless you've struck a deal with Kespa itself . Though NASL could add OSL to the point system and just don't count the Kespa players's points .
I mean, technically we can invite whoever we want... Whether they'll accept is the issue.
Also, it's pretty unlikely that KESPA pros will accumulate enough points to populate the top half of our list for quite some time.
Can't wait to see all 4 of these players in the league. Good job NASL ^_^
On August 30 2012 15:38 neoghaleon55 wrote: I have to say. I bought the first NASL season ticket to support foreign tournaments. But Season 1 was a big let down. So I haven't purchased since.
But if you're telling me DongRaeGu will be at the tournament. ...you can count on my support...along with my friends'. Here's to giving NASL another chance.
All leagues tend to generally improve over more seasons. I never watched Season 1 or 2 of NASL but Season 3 was great, and season 4 should be even better. But I don't see why you expected so much from the first season of a league.
I like this! I've been pretty positive about everything the NASL has done so far though.
I still feel some pangs of regret that the original vision - of having a starleague which could support North American pro players and teams in the same way that GSL and now OSL support the Korean scene - didn't really work out. But Root is back from the dead so who knows, it may still develop that way.
But I still really like the league a lot, and I'm a big fan of both casting pairs and especially Gretorp.
Whoa, those are damn good names. I saw the list and figured this "NASL Leaderboard" point system was just some silly scheme to give them a good excuse to invite whoever they wanted... but even the point system looks legit.
Cool because now the players that do really well around the world can get free seeds and not go through difficult qualifiers and train instead to do even better!!
On August 30 2012 17:43 Anomek wrote: Nice idea with ranking. I think it's first try of any organization to make fair ranking based of premier tournaments reasults.
I'd love if the next step is NASL tanking with other organizations and making an official sc2 ranking (like tennis one). Go my dreams!
On August 30 2012 12:16 stew_ wrote: finals in toronto again? :DDD
Or Vancouver, aka South Korea North? (ok, I made that up myself. and yes, it's a little confusing with the south/north in there. But basically Canada is North and the Vancouver area has possibly the largest concentration of South Koreans on the planet outside of Korea).
On August 30 2012 15:38 neoghaleon55 wrote: I have to say. I bought the first NASL season ticket to support foreign tournaments. But Season 1 was a big let down. So I haven't purchased since.
But if you're telling me DongRaeGu will be at the tournament. ...you can count on my support...along with my friends'. Here's to giving NASL another chance.
Haven't you heard? Word on the street was that Season 2 was an improvement over S1 but still wasn't a top tier tournament. And Season 3 was a hit, especially the S3 Grand Finals. Season 4? I dunno, man... but odds are they'll put in another strong performance and no one will flip Stephano upside down and kick an NASL staff hostess in the head this time.
On August 30 2012 12:16 stew_ wrote: finals in toronto again? :DDD
Or Vancouver, aka South Korea North? (ok, I made that up myself. and yes, it's a little confusing with the south/north in there. But basically Canada is North and the Vancouver area has possibly the largest concentration of South Koreans on the planet outside of Korea).
Toronto has way more, brah. Even if the area around Metrotown is covered with Korean language signs.
On August 30 2012 15:38 neoghaleon55 wrote: I have to say. I bought the first NASL season ticket to support foreign tournaments. But Season 1 was a big let down. So I haven't purchased since.
But if you're telling me DongRaeGu will be at the tournament. ...you can count on my support...along with my friends'. Here's to giving NASL another chance.
Haven't you heard? Word on the street was that Season 2 was an improvement over S1 but still wasn't a top tier tournament. And Season 3 was a hit, especially the S3 Grand Finals. Season 4? I dunno, man... but odds are they'll put in another strong performance and no one will flip Stephano upside down and kick an NASL staff hostess in the head this time.
Hopefully, however, Stephano will proclaim his love for an ex-pornstar NASL hostess again though. That shit was hilarious.
The system seems to work fairly well, if they got this set of players. You can definitely argue about whether they're the four best players in the world, but you can't argue that any of them are undeserving of seeding.
MMA on top of the leader-board? Not the best first impression after holding so many qualifiers. Next thing you'll be having avilo vs. idra for your opening show-match.
hmm, I like this system. Its only 4 players and I feel like I haven't seen enough of MMA recently so that's extremely exciting. And of course <3 taeja and violet! DRG, well he's up with MKP as one of the players I don't "get" but whatever. Still should be a good season overall! Anyone know if the casters are the same this season?
On August 30 2012 12:16 stew_ wrote: finals in toronto again? :DDD
Or Vancouver, aka South Korea North? (ok, I made that up myself. and yes, it's a little confusing with the south/north in there. But basically Canada is North and the Vancouver area has possibly the largest concentration of South Koreans on the planet outside of Korea).
Toronto has way more, brah. Even if the area around Metrotown is covered with Korean language signs.
I don't think Toronto has many more Koreans than Vancouver. There's a chance Toronto has a larger total Korean population, but even then, I would be surprised.
I attended the NASL S3 Grand Finals in Toronto (which was actually next to the airport, so it was technically in Mississauga which is a neighboring suburb) - but basically, I don't remember seeing any Koreans other than the 6 progamers who were in the finals. Well, plus Smix I was curious to see how many local Koreans would show up, and I'm sure some did, but I didn't notice them. There were definitely local Chinese who were there, but even so, I was surprised at the relatively low % of Asians in attendance (I can't remember if it was > 50% or < 50% - all I remember is that I've been surrounded by more Asians in other environments both in Toronto and Vancouver).
I think a lot of this has to do with the somewhat removed venue location. It was right next to the airport, but that's about a 30 minute drive outside of the Toronto core, and even further if you're coming from one of the Asian-dense northern suburbs of Richmond Hill or Markham.
In contrast, Greater Vancouver is basically one contiguous area where Vancouver and its suburbs don't really have any physical boundaries or separation and the transit system is generally pretty good. And there are Asians EVERYWHERE.
Ok, one of the tables is messed up (there's overlap) because the %'s add up to more than 100%, but ignoring that table, some key things to note are:
The "Census Metropolitan Area" for the Vancouver region has a 19.16% (402,000 total) Chinese population and a 2.19% (46,040 total) Korean population. The CMA for Toronto has a 9.6% (486,330 total) Chinese population and a 1.1% (55,265 total) Korean population.
In other words, we (Vancouver area) have about 80%+ the same number of Chinese and Koreans as the Toronto area, but density wise that makes us 2x more Asian than Toronto! (which explains why NASL S3 grand finals was noticeably less Asian in the crowd than what I'm used to)
On August 30 2012 12:16 stew_ wrote: finals in toronto again? :DDD
Or Vancouver, aka South Korea North? (ok, I made that up myself. and yes, it's a little confusing with the south/north in there. But basically Canada is North and the Vancouver area has possibly the largest concentration of South Koreans on the planet outside of Korea).
On August 30 2012 12:16 stew_ wrote: finals in toronto again? :DDD
Or Vancouver, aka South Korea North? (ok, I made that up myself. and yes, it's a little confusing with the south/north in there. But basically Canada is North and the Vancouver area has possibly the largest concentration of South Koreans on the planet outside of Korea).
Toronto has way more, brah. Even if the area around Metrotown is covered with Korean language signs.
I don't think Toronto has many more Koreans than Vancouver. There's a chance Toronto has a larger total Korean population, but even then, I would be surprised.
I attended the NASL S3 Grand Finals in Toronto (which was actually next to the airport, so it was technically in Mississauga which is a neighboring suburb) - but basically, I don't remember seeing any Koreans other than the 6 progamers who were in the finals. Well, plus Smix I was curious to see how many local Koreans would show up, and I'm sure some did, but I didn't notice them. There were definitely local Chinese who were there, but even so, I was surprised at the relatively low % of Asians in attendance (I can't remember if it was > 50% or < 50% - all I remember is that I've been surrounded by more Asians in other environments both in Toronto and Vancouver).
I think a lot of this has to do with the somewhat removed venue location. It was right next to the airport, but that's about a 30 minute drive outside of the Toronto core, and even further if you're coming from one of the Asian-dense northern suburbs of Richmond Hill or Markham.
In contrast, Greater Vancouver is basically one contiguous area where Vancouver and its suburbs don't really have any physical boundaries or separation and the transit system is generally pretty good. And there are Asians EVERYWHERE.
Ok, one of the tables is messed up (there's overlap) because the %'s add up to more than 100%, but ignoring that table, some key things to note are:
The "Census Metropolitan Area" for the Vancouver region has a 19.16% (402,000 total) Chinese population and a 2.19% (46,040 total) Korean population. The CMA for Toronto has a 9.6% (486,330 total) Chinese population and a 1.1% (55,265 total) Korean population.
In other words, we (Vancouver area) have about 80%+ the same number of Chinese and Koreans as the Toronto area, but density wise that makes us 2x more Asian than Toronto! (which explains why NASL S3 grand finals was noticeably less Asian in the crowd than what I'm used to)
In summary: NASL please come to VANCOUVER
Oh come on man. If they held NASL 3 in Pitt Meadows or Surrey, youd have seen the same limited amount of Asians. If NASL had rented some space around U of T you would have seen more asians.
On August 30 2012 12:16 stew_ wrote: finals in toronto again? :DDD
Or Vancouver, aka South Korea North? (ok, I made that up myself. and yes, it's a little confusing with the south/north in there. But basically Canada is North and the Vancouver area has possibly the largest concentration of South Koreans on the planet outside of Korea).
Toronto has way more, brah. Even if the area around Metrotown is covered with Korean language signs.
I don't think Toronto has many more Koreans than Vancouver. There's a chance Toronto has a larger total Korean population, but even then, I would be surprised.
I attended the NASL S3 Grand Finals in Toronto (which was actually next to the airport, so it was technically in Mississauga which is a neighboring suburb) - but basically, I don't remember seeing any Koreans other than the 6 progamers who were in the finals. Well, plus Smix I was curious to see how many local Koreans would show up, and I'm sure some did, but I didn't notice them. There were definitely local Chinese who were there, but even so, I was surprised at the relatively low % of Asians in attendance (I can't remember if it was > 50% or < 50% - all I remember is that I've been surrounded by more Asians in other environments both in Toronto and Vancouver).
I think a lot of this has to do with the somewhat removed venue location. It was right next to the airport, but that's about a 30 minute drive outside of the Toronto core, and even further if you're coming from one of the Asian-dense northern suburbs of Richmond Hill or Markham.
In contrast, Greater Vancouver is basically one contiguous area where Vancouver and its suburbs don't really have any physical boundaries or separation and the transit system is generally pretty good. And there are Asians EVERYWHERE.
Ok, one of the tables is messed up (there's overlap) because the %'s add up to more than 100%, but ignoring that table, some key things to note are:
The "Census Metropolitan Area" for the Vancouver region has a 19.16% (402,000 total) Chinese population and a 2.19% (46,040 total) Korean population. The CMA for Toronto has a 9.6% (486,330 total) Chinese population and a 1.1% (55,265 total) Korean population.
In other words, we (Vancouver area) have about 80%+ the same number of Chinese and Koreans as the Toronto area, but density wise that makes us 2x more Asian than Toronto! (which explains why NASL S3 grand finals was noticeably less Asian in the crowd than what I'm used to)
In summary: NASL please come to VANCOUVER
Oh come on man. If they held NASL 3 in Pitt Meadows or Surrey, youd have seen the same limited amount of Asians. If NASL had rented some space around U of T you would have seen more asians.
Yup, I agree with you! Except if it had been Surrey, you still would have seen a TON of Asians.
Edit: Actually, I kind of take that back. I think anywhere within a 30km radius of Metrotown (that's Burnaby, for all the other readers) would still see a big Asian turnout, and Pitt Meadows is just barely within that radius. That's the beauty of the Vancouver area. Even from furthest end to furthest end, you're looking at a maximum 1 hour car trip (roads here are slower, so that's only ~45km or less). Actually, Toronto is similar (longer distances but shorter time on the road).
Since so many people are asking, MVP is actually sitting at the #14 overall spot on our list, and is the 6th highest ranked player that isn't already in the NASL. He was very close to earning an invite, and if he continues playing well, will likely be invited to season 5.
On August 30 2012 12:39 TommyP wrote: Can the finals be in Chicago?
On August 30 2012 12:39 ArvickHero wrote: so .. OSL is not a premier tournament??? :S
Well KeSPA players cant play in their league and they cant give points because it hasnt finished....
There are non Kespa players in OSL and you can at least give them the points of the round of 16.
We officially count points after the tournament has concluded. This is because we need to account for when to start the decay for the players that gain positive points. This way, points decay fairly even if they place early in the year (like at IEM Kiev) then nothing for a long duration.
For the record, no one can have negative points. Essentially, anyone that has negative points is at 0.
There are currently 133 players that have points of some kind. 207 players on record to have at least a top 32 placing.
On August 30 2012 12:39 TommyP wrote: Can the finals be in Chicago?
On August 30 2012 12:39 ArvickHero wrote: so .. OSL is not a premier tournament??? :S
Well KeSPA players cant play in their league and they cant give points because it hasnt finished....
There are non Kespa players in OSL and you can at least give them the points of the round of 16.
We officially count points after the tournament has concluded. This is because we need to account for when to start the decay for the players that gain positive points. This way, points decay fairly even if they place early in the year (like at IEM Kiev) then nothing for a long duration.
For the record, no one can have negative points. Essentially, anyone that has negative points is at 0.
There are currently 133 players that have points of some kind. 207 players on record to have at least a top 32 placing.
This is really awesome news. As if I wasn't already completely excited for (and subscribed to) NASLs4, now i've got even more great players to look forward to watching each week (in beautiful 1080p HD ).
I'm hoping the last invited player is NASL_Chance!
But those are only rough because the methodology isn't 100% explicit when it comes to in progress tournaments and how the decay works. Those are just rough values to give some kind of indication.
Which means Mvp might be the secret invite, or it could be Oz or Naniwa.
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
This sounds like a continuation of NASL's evolution. I like how they continually strive to improve and this can be clearly seen. They improved massively over the course of Season 3. I also like how they actively monitor and interact with their viewers here and strive for clarity and transparency. Viewers get the impression that NASL actually cares what they think. Or at least that is my view. The dancing celebration ceremony when Stephano won was hilarious and completely put to shame the recent boring and flat ceremonies at IEM Cologne or MLG Summer Arena. More of the same please for Season 4.
I do like the notion of a ranking of players where consistency in tournaments is valued and can be rewarded with invitations into NASL sesaons. I have no problem with the concept of seeding/invites based on merit and achievement, which is a system that NASL have just adopted. I assume NASL will also have qualifier tournaments as per usual?
How many players will actually be in NASL 4? Is that known yet?
I also think having a game analysis screen like they now have at MLG is an idea that NASL should definitely adopt. That should become a standard thing at major SC2 tournaments. Also Mr Bitter and his colleagues can have a lot of fun with that!
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
All tournaments / leagues should have invites and I absolutely love this list. Objective systems of getting into tournaments are great but can lead to less than desirous results from a fan and organizer perspective when the qualifiers conflict with other tournaments.
But those are only rough because the methodology isn't 100% explicit when it comes to in progress tournaments and how the decay works. Those are just rough values to give some kind of indication.
Which means Mvp might be the secret invite, or it could be Oz or Naniwa.
Pretty close idea to the actual list. Nice research
On August 31 2012 01:20 revel8 wrote: I do like the notion of a ranking of players where consistency in tournaments is valued and can be rewarded with invitations into NASL sesaons. I have no problem with the concept of seeding/invites based on merit and achievement, which is a system that NASL have just adopted. I assume NASL will also have qualifier tournaments as per usual?
How many players will actually be in NASL 4? Is that known yet?
I also think having a game analysis screen like they now have at MLG is an idea that NASL should definitely adopt. That should become a standard thing at major SC2 tournaments. Also Mr Bitter and his colleagues can have a lot of fun with that!
- Yes we still have qualifiers! We had 3 and our last one will be starting today. - 45. We currently have 44. - I agree. We're working on it
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..."
This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc.
Why so much hate for NASL? They seem to be the most accommodating and innovative NA based tournament around and all they get is hate.
They update their map pool each season, bring in new casters and raise them up, allow reschedules, air for NA AND EU at separate times, have community updates, quirky humor, showmatches, decent quality, and are now inviting players based on their overall results. Oh I also forgot that they were the first ones to do PiP and Replays if I'm not mistaken.
In short, they are doing everything that people bitch about MLG not doing and then some and yet people still hate on them.
I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..."
This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc.
We totally agree. At the very least, 10k~ views on a nightly basis would be considered the borderline of doing moderately alright. We hope provide that nightly competition is a MUST watch similar to how every GSL night there seems to be just that one match everyone is waiting for. There is still a healthy mix of foreigners and we recognize how important it is to keep them in. However, the fact that players who perform well across many tournaments means that the invites are always players who have a ton of exposure and respect. The faceless A-team Koreans won't ever qualify unless they get out to the major tournaments or win every primarily cup like TSL. Even then, that's some decent hype and exposure
On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote: Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year.
Read Bitter's post. MMA has placed high in several tournaments this season and won two events. No one will argue that he hasn't shown dominating results recently, but even MVP went through a "slump" period as well when he was going through surgery recovery (and still is).
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy.
The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement )
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy.
The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement )
That makes sense and I know why you are doing it. The players who were seeded all deserve a ton of respect for their accomplishments this year. I guess I just felt a little disappointed that I won't have the opportunity to see a recent rising North American talent play against more of the established players (same foreigner vs korean concept).. Unless she wins the last qualifier that is. Overall I think you guys are doing a great job.
On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote: Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year.
Won Iron Squid, Won IEM Kiev, 3/4 IEM Cebit, 3/4 IPL 4, 5/8 GSL S1, Top 32 GSL S2, Top 32 Spring Arena #2
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
Our goal was not to hand out seeds to players we want in our tournament. Our goal was to develop another method of qualification for the NASL that guarantees us four of the best players on the planet.
Think of this as another method of qualifying. You can count on the top 4 players on this list to receive invites at the beginning of season 5 too.
i just hope it doesn't turn into another korean dominated league. i know nasl got a lot of flack in season 2 when all those koreans left. but i think it was a good thing. a mostly foreigner league with a sprinkle of *beatable* koreans turned out pretty good for them these past few seasons. the good news is, those invites (with the exception of taeja) are beatable by top foreigners. lets hope stephano can repeat and kick another model in the face. GG
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
Our goal was not to hand out seeds to players we want in our tournament. Our goal was to develop another method of qualification for the NASL that guarantees us four of the best players on the planet.
Think of this as another method of qualifying. You can count on the top 4 players on this list to receive invites at the beginning of season 5 too.
I agree. This is a good "hard numbers" approach, and it's clear that an unbiased method was used. The 4 highst-ranked players got invites, and this is both fair and represents the current good players in the foreign scene. They happen to be korean, yes, but the point is that NASL is supplementing its largely open system with a small number of merit-based invites.
I can only see this being good. Also, what a great four invites. This will definitely make things more exciting.
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..."
This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc.
We totally agree. At the very least, 10k~ views on a nightly basis would be considered the borderline of doing moderately alright. We hope provide that nightly competition is a MUST watch similar to how every GSL night there seems to be just that one match everyone is waiting for. There is still a healthy mix of foreigners and we recognize how important it is to keep them in. However, the fact that players who perform well across many tournaments means that the invites are always players who have a ton of exposure and respect. The faceless A-team Koreans won't ever qualify unless they get out to the major tournaments or win every primarily cup like TSL. Even then, that's some decent hype and exposure
On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote: Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year.
Read Bitter's post. MMA has placed high in several tournaments this season and won two events. No one will argue that he hasn't shown dominating results recently, but even MVP went through a "slump" period as well when he was going through surgery recovery (and still is).
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy.
The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement )
I think it's your format. Seven to eight weeks of round-robin groups where placing highly doesn't really affect your chances of actually winning NASL. Plus the week of preparation players are given before each matchup in the Regular Season is a complete contradiction of your Finals format where you just crap out game after game in a three day timeframe.
Here's an idea, separate the NASL into divisions (Division A, B and C in order of prestige), have 16 players (separated into 2 groups of 8) per Division and play each group out. By the end, only the top 3 players per group should make it to the playoffs, with the 1st place finisher needing to win only one Bo5 series to reach the finals. Then... make the finals a huge bigged up Best of 9 showmatch between the Division A victors in the playoffs. Give each player 2 weeks to prepare and put $30,000 on the line. Suddenly.... you are gonna see shit that is GSL Finals good.
As for other divisions, make the bottom 3 spot a relegation zone and the top 3 spot a promotion zone, so if you get bottom 3 of Division C, you're out. Suddenly, NASL means a whole bloody lot more. Or if you like, make the best and the worst player in a group face instant promotion/relegation and the next two in order compete for promotion/relegation.
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..."
This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc.
We totally agree. At the very least, 10k~ views on a nightly basis would be considered the borderline of doing moderately alright. We hope provide that nightly competition is a MUST watch similar to how every GSL night there seems to be just that one match everyone is waiting for. There is still a healthy mix of foreigners and we recognize how important it is to keep them in. However, the fact that players who perform well across many tournaments means that the invites are always players who have a ton of exposure and respect. The faceless A-team Koreans won't ever qualify unless they get out to the major tournaments or win every primarily cup like TSL. Even then, that's some decent hype and exposure
On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote: Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year.
Read Bitter's post. MMA has placed high in several tournaments this season and won two events. No one will argue that he hasn't shown dominating results recently, but even MVP went through a "slump" period as well when he was going through surgery recovery (and still is).
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy.
The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement )
I think it's your format. Seven to eight weeks of round-robin groups where placing highly doesn't really affect your chances of actually winning NASL. Plus the week of preparation players are given before each matchup in the Regular Season is a complete contradiction of your Finals format where you just crap out game after game in a three day timeframe.
Here's an idea, separate the NASL into divisions (Division A, B and C in order of prestige), have 16 players (separated into 2 groups of 8) per Division and play each group out. By the end, only the top 3 players per group should make it to the playoffs, with the 1st place finisher needing to win only one Bo5 series to reach the finals. Then... make the finals a huge bigged up Best of 9 showmatch between the Division A victors in the playoffs. Give each player 2 weeks to prepare and put $30,000 on the line. Suddenly.... you are gonna see shit that is GSL Finals good.
As for other divisions, make the bottom 3 spot a relegation zone and the top 3 spot a promotion zone, so if you get bottom 3 of Division C, you're out. Suddenly, NASL means a whole bloody lot more. Or if you like, make the best and the worst player in a group face instant promotion/relegation and the next two in order compete for promotion/relegation.
Our offline final for season 3 only included of the league's top 8 players.
That gave players three days (or was it 2? lol) to prepare and play a grand total of three matches.
While the format you describe would certainly be exciting, it's not really our vision for the league.
Perhaps a 9 week season is too long - and this is something we've considered, and may tamper with in the future - but we do not want to deny players like Lowely the awesome opportunity to put together impressive runs like the one he made in season 3.
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
I think it's also worth distinguishing Leagues like NASL, IPL, and GSL from Tournaments like Dreamhack and MLG. NASL takes place over a larger timeframe because it's not just a tournament (though it is a tournament), but because it is a league. You get longer and more interesting stories of what players do, more time to prepare and strategize between matches, and the ability to grow real stories. I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..."
This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc.
We totally agree. At the very least, 10k~ views on a nightly basis would be considered the borderline of doing moderately alright. We hope provide that nightly competition is a MUST watch similar to how every GSL night there seems to be just that one match everyone is waiting for. There is still a healthy mix of foreigners and we recognize how important it is to keep them in. However, the fact that players who perform well across many tournaments means that the invites are always players who have a ton of exposure and respect. The faceless A-team Koreans won't ever qualify unless they get out to the major tournaments or win every primarily cup like TSL. Even then, that's some decent hype and exposure
On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote: Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year.
Read Bitter's post. MMA has placed high in several tournaments this season and won two events. No one will argue that he hasn't shown dominating results recently, but even MVP went through a "slump" period as well when he was going through surgery recovery (and still is).
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy.
The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement )
I think it's your format. Seven to eight weeks of round-robin groups where placing highly doesn't really affect your chances of actually winning NASL. Plus the week of preparation players are given before each matchup in the Regular Season is a complete contradiction of your Finals format where you just crap out game after game in a three day timeframe.
Here's an idea, separate the NASL into divisions (Division A, B and C in order of prestige), have 16 players (separated into 2 groups of 8) per Division and play each group out. By the end, only the top 3 players per group should make it to the playoffs, with the 1st place finisher needing to win only one Bo5 series to reach the finals. Then... make the finals a huge bigged up Best of 9 showmatch between the Division A victors in the playoffs. Give each player 2 weeks to prepare and put $30,000 on the line. Suddenly.... you are gonna see shit that is GSL Finals good.
As for other divisions, make the bottom 3 spot a relegation zone and the top 3 spot a promotion zone, so if you get bottom 3 of Division C, you're out. Suddenly, NASL means a whole bloody lot more. Or if you like, make the best and the worst player in a group face instant promotion/relegation and the next two in order compete for promotion/relegation.
Our offline final for season 3 only included of the league's top 8 players.
That gave players three days (or was it 2? lol) to prepare and play a grand total of three matches.
While the format you describe would certainly be exciting, it's not really our vision for the league.
Perhaps a 9 week season is too long - and this is something we've considered, and may tamper with in the future - but we do not want to deny players like Lowely the awesome opportunity to put together impressive runs like the one he made in season 3.
I think it's also worth distinguishing Leagues like NASL, IPL, and GSL from Tournaments like Dreamhack and MLG. NASL takes place over a larger timeframe because it's not just a tournament (though it is a tournament), but because it is a league. You get longer and more interesting stories of what players do, more time to prepare and strategize between matches, and the ability to grow real stories.
On August 31 2012 05:25 Dexington wrote: Some people complain about the long format, I for one absolutely love it. NASL is the only league I will watch every single broadcast and enjoy it.
I may be the only person that thinks this, but I'd love the league to be longer and the chance to play more people. What NASL provides beautifully is play over time. Losing a couple Bo3 doesn't mean you're done.
Even dividing up the league into two leagues, having lots of interleague play and all-star weekend, like NFL or MLB is stuff we heavily discuss. It may not be viable now, but who knows what the futures holds?
there are so many slayers players now in NASL, not that i'm complaining but it's a really unusual situation. MMA, Puzzle, Ryuong, Alica, Arther and Dark.
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
WCS isn't as heavily stacked as other tournaments like MLG, Ironsquid or Dreamhack.
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
Its not a seed, they have a points system and invite the top 4....
On August 30 2012 12:09 opterown wrote: really, mma still at the top of the leaderboard? o.O
Yeah, I feel like If they counted OSL round of 16, MVP's RECENT IEM, His fairly recent GSL, and consistant code s through all 2012 seasons it would be higher than MMA's older IEM, round of 48 code a and iron squid...
Well they have the point system available, why don't you do the maths? It would seem that MMA had the points and MVP didn't. Go to liquidpedia or wherever and pull their results and then use the NASL leaderboard system to work it out, if MVP is higher then go complain...
On August 30 2012 12:47 Dr.Sin wrote: I think that WCS should be included in the qualifying list. Scarlett has earned herself major points with her performance. It would be amazing to see her in the NASL.
Scarlett would have only secured 325 points (maybe 650 if they include both the canada and NA finals), shes not won anything else major. She could have attempted to qualify like anyone else and it would be great to see her in NASL but she doesn't even come close to any of these guys or many other top US or EU players who have way more successes in way more stacked tourneys.
Since this is mostly an online tournament, and we don't get to see much footage of the player's faces. Will you guys be doing interviews or have exclusive footages of these korean players?
Fans want more than just the starcraft screen, they want the star power...which means air time seeing their favorite players' faces/hearing their voices/ and understanding their perspectives.
i like that we finally have a league using a "world ranking" style qualification, but it feels like the point decay clearly isnt fast enough. everyone knows mma is a great player but hes been having personal issues recently and has turned down chances to play in high profile events.
if a guy who has removed himself from the scene for the last 3ish months can still top your points list its clear to me that the point decay isnt fast enough.
On August 31 2012 07:44 neoghaleon55 wrote: I got a question.
Since this is mostly an online tournament, and we don't get to see much footage of the player's faces. Will you guys be doing interviews or have exclusive footages of these korean players?
Fans want more than just the starcraft screen, they want the star power...which means air time seeing their favorite players' faces/hearing their voices/ and understanding their perspectives.
I agree with Neo! I would like to see some interviews with the players.
On August 31 2012 07:44 neoghaleon55 wrote: I got a question.
Since this is mostly an online tournament, and we don't get to see much footage of the player's faces. Will you guys be doing interviews or have exclusive footages of these korean players?
Fans want more than just the starcraft screen, they want the star power...which means air time seeing their favorite players' faces/hearing their voices/ and understanding their perspectives.
They aready do interviews with the winner after the games when they can. Harder of course with the Koreans, but Polt is an example of a player who has already chatted a little bit after a game. I am sure if the player is willing then NASL will be happy to as well.
On August 30 2012 12:47 Dr.Sin wrote: I think that WCS should be included in the qualifying list. Scarlett has earned herself major points with her performance. It would be amazing to see her in the NASL.
Scarlett would have only secured 325 points (maybe 650 if they include both the canada and NA finals), shes not won anything else major. She could have attempted to qualify like anyone else and it would be great to see her in NASL but she doesn't even come close to any of these guys or many other top US or EU players who have way more successes in way more stacked tourneys.
Scarlett has been attempting to qualify, She's signed up every time. Though she's defaulted a couple of times (like during WCS not surprisingly).
On August 31 2012 07:44 neoghaleon55 wrote: I got a question.
Since this is mostly an online tournament, and we don't get to see much footage of the player's faces. Will you guys be doing interviews or have exclusive footages of these korean players?
Fans want more than just the starcraft screen, they want the star power...which means air time seeing their favorite players' faces/hearing their voices/ and understanding their perspectives.
We agree and have been compiling them in the off-season for about a month now.
On August 31 2012 09:40 Luepert wrote: Can someone explain the decay? Is it minus 1 point from EACH achievement or minus 1 point each day for everyone overall?
On August 31 2012 09:40 Luepert wrote: Can someone explain the decay? Is it minus 1 point from EACH achievement or minus 1 point each day for everyone overall?
-1 each day.
So if you win a tournament, you get 365 points.
1 year later, it will have decayed down to 0.
This is a little bit pointless isn't it? All it does is punish the first winner a little bit. You guys only pick the top 4, who will always have racked up some points early on because they are good and they would all be affected the same once they all have some points. Pretty sure if you did this without the decay all the top people would end up exactly the same.
On August 31 2012 09:40 Luepert wrote: Can someone explain the decay? Is it minus 1 point from EACH achievement or minus 1 point each day for everyone overall?
Per day. It's not per event otherwise there is literally no point in awarding top 32.
The decay makes sense as it will allow them to keep the system in the future without having results from the past influence it too heavily. At this point next year, Leenock's current MLG win will have no impact on his standings, but right now he has a lot of points from a recent tournament. People will always complain, but this seems like a good system.
On August 31 2012 10:19 Toganas wrote: The decay makes sense as it will allow them to keep the system in the future without having results from the past influence it too heavily. At this point next year, Leenock's current MLG win will have no impact on his standings, but right now he has a lot of points from a recent tournament. People will always complain, but this seems like a good system.
The top 4 people will always have at lest 1 point right? So if they each lose 1 a day, they will still be in the same order.
The system they used for invites seems to be a decent way to get more top players into NASL and I think it will really help make the season stronger overall!
On August 31 2012 10:19 Toganas wrote: The decay makes sense as it will allow them to keep the system in the future without having results from the past influence it too heavily. At this point next year, Leenock's current MLG win will have no impact on his standings, but right now he has a lot of points from a recent tournament. People will always complain, but this seems like a good system.
The top 4 people will always have at lest 1 point right? So if they each lose 1 a day, they will still be in the same order.
assuming no tournaments are played for the next year and that all these players will get eliminated from nasl ur point would matter
On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote: Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year.
All this year? Really? I call total bullshit.
On August 30 2012 20:09 MrBitter wrote:
On August 30 2012 20:02 Derez wrote: No way MMA is top 4 on any leaderboard. Only result he has had is Ironsquid and nothing else over 2012.
Won Iron Squid, Won IEM Kiev, 3/4 IEM Cebit, 3/4 IPL 4, 5/8 GSL S1, Top 32 GSL S2, Top 32 Spring Arena #2
We all know half of those events never even occurred and Bitter is just fabricating this information to put another Korean in the NASL.
I was listening to the Bitterdam cast yesterday and at some point they were talking about forming an NASL team. Now, after a thorough investigation literally littered with investigative journalism, I can uncover the truth to the world.
Bitter came up with this system because he is about to land MMA for his team. And the whole of season four is but a smokescreen for getting as much hype for the new team captain and figurehead as possible.
On August 31 2012 07:44 neoghaleon55 wrote: I got a question.
Since this is mostly an online tournament, and we don't get to see much footage of the player's faces. Will you guys be doing interviews or have exclusive footages of these korean players?
Fans want more than just the starcraft screen, they want the star power...which means air time seeing their favorite players' faces/hearing their voices/ and understanding their perspectives.
We agree and have been compiling them in the off-season for about a month now.
Well I'm sold And I put my money where my post is. good job, guys.
Those of you on the fence about this, please give NASL another chance. They seem more legit every season.
And $15.99 is a very good deal for this amount of content.
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
Whats wrong with invites. Invites can help ensure that the top level players who are competing for the GSL (actual contenders) will spend the time to go to foreign events. Making them go through a qualifier decreases the odds that they will take the time to go through the process.
On August 31 2012 10:19 Toganas wrote: The decay makes sense as it will allow them to keep the system in the future without having results from the past influence it too heavily. At this point next year, Leenock's current MLG win will have no impact on his standings, but right now he has a lot of points from a recent tournament. People will always complain, but this seems like a good system.
The top 4 people will always have at lest 1 point right? So if they each lose 1 a day, they will still be in the same order.
assuming no tournaments are played for the next year and that all these players will get eliminated from nasl ur point would matter
I'm talking from a pure ranking system. No top pro would ever get to 0 and since they all have the same decay it will be like there is no decay at all.
So if they always take the top 4, it would never deviate from who the top 4 would be without decay.
On August 31 2012 10:19 Toganas wrote: The decay makes sense as it will allow them to keep the system in the future without having results from the past influence it too heavily. At this point next year, Leenock's current MLG win will have no impact on his standings, but right now he has a lot of points from a recent tournament. People will always complain, but this seems like a good system.
The top 4 people will always have at lest 1 point right? So if they each lose 1 a day, they will still be in the same order.
assuming no tournaments are played for the next year and that all these players will get eliminated from nasl ur point would matter
I'm talking from a pure ranking system. No top pro would ever get to 0 and since they all have the same decay it will be like there is no decay at all.
So if they always take the top 4, it would never deviate from who the top 4 would be without decay.
On August 31 2012 07:44 neoghaleon55 wrote: I got a question.
Since this is mostly an online tournament, and we don't get to see much footage of the player's faces. Will you guys be doing interviews or have exclusive footages of these korean players?
Fans want more than just the starcraft screen, they want the star power...which means air time seeing their favorite players' faces/hearing their voices/ and understanding their perspectives.
We agree and have been compiling them in the off-season for about a month now.
Well I'm sold And I put my money where my post is. good job, guys.
Those of you on the fence about this, please give NASL another chance. They seem more legit every season.
And $15.99 is a very good deal for this amount of content.
on the same note, are you going to ask ppl to ask for refunds if DRG is eliminated ?
On August 31 2012 10:19 Toganas wrote: The decay makes sense as it will allow them to keep the system in the future without having results from the past influence it too heavily. At this point next year, Leenock's current MLG win will have no impact on his standings, but right now he has a lot of points from a recent tournament. People will always complain, but this seems like a good system.
The top 4 people will always have at lest 1 point right? So if they each lose 1 a day, they will still be in the same order.
assuming no tournaments are played for the next year and that all these players will get eliminated from nasl ur point would matter
I'm talking from a pure ranking system. No top pro would ever get to 0 and since they all have the same decay it will be like there is no decay at all.
So if they always take the top 4, it would never deviate from who the top 4 would be without decay.
Except you don't earn points at the same rate.
Exactly. The people who earn more points are still on top. Example: MMA has 1000 points. DRG has 1050 points. 300 days pass, MMA has 700, DRG has 750. Same difference. The only way they would switch places is if MMA were to win more than DRG. But if he did, he would pass DRG by the same amount in both systems.
God this is hard to explain, people can still pass each other, but at any moment in the future when they take the top 4, it will be the same 4 people that would be on top in a no decay system because they would have the same amount of decay as each other.
I cant believe people are having trouble understanding the decay system...or rather, accepting it. It's a good invite system..made me more interested in watching, as I suspect mos people are too
On August 31 2012 10:19 Toganas wrote: The decay makes sense as it will allow them to keep the system in the future without having results from the past influence it too heavily. At this point next year, Leenock's current MLG win will have no impact on his standings, but right now he has a lot of points from a recent tournament. People will always complain, but this seems like a good system.
The top 4 people will always have at lest 1 point right? So if they each lose 1 a day, they will still be in the same order.
assuming no tournaments are played for the next year and that all these players will get eliminated from nasl ur point would matter
I'm talking from a pure ranking system. No top pro would ever get to 0 and since they all have the same decay it will be like there is no decay at all.
So if they always take the top 4, it would never deviate from who the top 4 would be without decay.
Except you don't earn points at the same rate.
Exactly. The people who earn more points are still on top. Example: MMA has 1000 points. DRG has 1050 points. 300 days pass, MMA has 700, DRG has 750. Same difference. The only way they would switch places is if MMA were to win more than DRG. But if he did, he would pass DRG by the same amount in both systems.
God this is hard to explain, people can still pass each other, but at any moment in the future when they take the top 4, it will be the same 4 people that would be on top in a no decay system because they would have the same amount of decay as each other.
This makes sense for two players that both have lots of points.
But what if a new guy turns up and starts winning stuff left and right?
Because he's starting at zero, he will catch the top players faster due to the decay.
It's a way for us to try and keep our top rated guys timely, as folks who are on top have to have some semblance of recent results.
On August 31 2012 06:14 patronage wrote: Whats with the MMA hate?
He will do fine......
People have short term memory loss. If a player hasn't won a major tournament in the past month, it seems that they are suddenly bad.
Silly how people are complaining about MMA. 2 GSL titles AND he's accomplished more than any foreigner in 2012 AND he's in Code S. Is he as dominant as he was during late 2011? No, but he's still better than most of the players in the NASL now.
MLG Arenas should give less than an actual MLG Championship IEM challenges should give less points than the World Championship. GSL Code S should give more. TSL should be removed or give very little points, its an online tournament, things like FXOpen Invitational has better players overall.
On August 31 2012 06:14 patronage wrote: Whats with the MMA hate?
He will do fine......
People have short term memory loss. If a player hasn't won a major tournament in the past month, it seems that they are suddenly bad.
Silly how people are complaining about MMA. 2 GSL titles AND he's accomplished more than any foreigner in 2012 AND he's in Code S. Is he as dominant as he was during late 2011? No, but he's still better than most of the players in the NASL now.
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..."
This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc.
We totally agree. At the very least, 10k~ views on a nightly basis would be considered the borderline of doing moderately alright. We hope provide that nightly competition is a MUST watch similar to how every GSL night there seems to be just that one match everyone is waiting for. There is still a healthy mix of foreigners and we recognize how important it is to keep them in. However, the fact that players who perform well across many tournaments means that the invites are always players who have a ton of exposure and respect. The faceless A-team Koreans won't ever qualify unless they get out to the major tournaments or win every primarily cup like TSL. Even then, that's some decent hype and exposure
On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote: Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year.
Read Bitter's post. MMA has placed high in several tournaments this season and won two events. No one will argue that he hasn't shown dominating results recently, but even MVP went through a "slump" period as well when he was going through surgery recovery (and still is).
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy.
The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement )
I think it's your format. Seven to eight weeks of round-robin groups where placing highly doesn't really affect your chances of actually winning NASL. Plus the week of preparation players are given before each matchup in the Regular Season is a complete contradiction of your Finals format where you just crap out game after game in a three day timeframe.
Here's an idea, separate the NASL into divisions (Division A, B and C in order of prestige), have 16 players (separated into 2 groups of 8) per Division and play each group out. By the end, only the top 3 players per group should make it to the playoffs, with the 1st place finisher needing to win only one Bo5 series to reach the finals. Then... make the finals a huge bigged up Best of 9 showmatch between the Division A victors in the playoffs. Give each player 2 weeks to prepare and put $30,000 on the line. Suddenly.... you are gonna see shit that is GSL Finals good.
As for other divisions, make the bottom 3 spot a relegation zone and the top 3 spot a promotion zone, so if you get bottom 3 of Division C, you're out. Suddenly, NASL means a whole bloody lot more. Or if you like, make the best and the worst player in a group face instant promotion/relegation and the next two in order compete for promotion/relegation.
Our offline final for season 3 only included of the league's top 8 players.
That gave players three days (or was it 2? lol) to prepare and play a grand total of three matches.
While the format you describe would certainly be exciting, it's not really our vision for the league.
Perhaps a 9 week season is too long - and this is something we've considered, and may tamper with in the future - but we do not want to deny players like Lowely the awesome opportunity to put together impressive runs like the one he made in season 3.
What I meant was.... take this for a hypothetical example....
In the Ro8, Stephano has to play Puzzle but if he advances to the Semifinals, he has to play either Ret or PuMa meaning he either has to prepare for a ZvZ or a TvZ on top of the ZvP. Then if Stephano makes it to the finals he has to face either Keen, Ostojiy, HuK or MajOr, meaning he has all manner of playstyles and races to practice against.
You're hardly going to get "GSL Finals" quality games in the NASL Grand Finals if players only get 3 days to prepare for the three series that will be thrown in quick succession (which could be 7 possible playstyles to pit yourself against.)
My point was that NASL could have filled a niche that only the GSL and OSL fulfill in their leagues, giving players a week to prepare for each series. NASL does this nicely.... before the Grand Finals. And then it just risks turning into every other NA/EU tournament, a clusterfuck of possible games where you have to rely on your skill in such a situation instead of being given time to prepare.
This is why I don't really like leagues like MLG or IPL. They just feel like hours and hours of constant games rather than being a big event played out over several weeks in consumable chunks.
On August 31 2012 21:43 Hiea wrote: I think this system needs some changes.
MLG Arenas should give less than an actual MLG Championship IEM challenges should give less points than the World Championship. GSL Code S should give more. TSL should be removed or give very little points, its an online tournament, things like FXOpen Invitational has better players overall.
idk why u think mlg arenas should give less in some cases they are even harder tournaments, i think the system works great in all honesty
On August 30 2012 11:59 digmouse wrote: Why are they still using invites?
The real question is "Why are they NOT using invites?".
NASL has been a downright disappointment in terms of regular season attendance and production value. The only thing most people are excited about the NASL is (rightfully so) the Finals.
The major reason I believe they have such low viewing ratings it's because there are not enough top-notch players. We're already almost 3 years into Starcraft 2, thus people wanna watch the best facing the best. And lets be honest, you will not stay up late to watch a match like HwangSin vs. Targa. No disrespect to the players at all, it's just a fact they are not the kind of players that would make you stay up.
This being said, I completely agree with what NASL is doing. As a matter of fact, I think they should include more invites, gathering more of the top players in the world, thus increasing the amount of trully interesting games.
2 seasons ago called, they want their complaints back. NASL last season was great all season, had a very high view count for it being almost nightly. Not sure what you've been watching.
I'm sorry, but averaging less than 3k viewers during the regular season is pretty darn mediocre. There are certain players that get way more viewers on their personal stream than "one of the top StarCraft II leagues in NA". Also, your post does not counter mine in anyway shape or form. My argument is that the NASL, in order to actually capture a substantial amount of viewers, at least in comparison to other competitions like IPL or EGMC (i'm obviously not taking the Finals event into account here), you NEED to have a high percentage of top players. Besides Stephano, MC, Hero, Alicia and very few others, there were NOT a lot of top-tier talents in NASL since Season 1, right before most korean teams have withdrawn from participating. I might be wrong, but at the moment, there are not many people who turn on their PCs to watch NASL. It's more like a "Let me check what streams are on... Oh, there's NASL, that's pretty cool..."
This move is a step in the right direction. DRG, MMA, Taeja and Violet are amount the top-tier talents in SC2. This is exactly what people want to see. I even think they should go even further with the invites. Try an get players like MVP, NesTea, MarineKing, Leenock, Seed, etc.
We totally agree. At the very least, 10k~ views on a nightly basis would be considered the borderline of doing moderately alright. We hope provide that nightly competition is a MUST watch similar to how every GSL night there seems to be just that one match everyone is waiting for. There is still a healthy mix of foreigners and we recognize how important it is to keep them in. However, the fact that players who perform well across many tournaments means that the invites are always players who have a ton of exposure and respect. The faceless A-team Koreans won't ever qualify unless they get out to the major tournaments or win every primarily cup like TSL. Even then, that's some decent hype and exposure
On August 31 2012 03:29 Elem wrote: Cool. I think you need to admit you kinda bullshitted in MMA though. He's done fuck all this year.
Read Bitter's post. MMA has placed high in several tournaments this season and won two events. No one will argue that he hasn't shown dominating results recently, but even MVP went through a "slump" period as well when he was going through surgery recovery (and still is).
On August 31 2012 03:41 NuttyFudgesicle wrote: I am kind of disappointed NASL didn't give Scarlett a seed for season 4. She is basically 'THE' current North American champion (WCS Canada & North America) and is an up and coming developing talent. What could be better for a North American league than a player like this? I really like it the current format and allowing everyone around the world participate and the qualifiers are great, but when you give a Korean seed over something like this I think it is really missing out.
I LOVE Scarlett's play (and Gretorp loves it x1000 more). The problem is that we want to remove any kind of act that could be seen as "well they just like player x and show them favoritism." Giving out spots to Koreans may seem like we're just trying to inflate the numbers, but if Deezer or Troll31523 was rightfully #3 in the rankings, we would invite him despite anyone's personal feelings on the guy.
The system tries to remove as much bias as possible and I think it's pretty damn comprehensive (no bias in that statement )
I think it's your format. Seven to eight weeks of round-robin groups where placing highly doesn't really affect your chances of actually winning NASL. Plus the week of preparation players are given before each matchup in the Regular Season is a complete contradiction of your Finals format where you just crap out game after game in a three day timeframe.
Here's an idea, separate the NASL into divisions (Division A, B and C in order of prestige), have 16 players (separated into 2 groups of 8) per Division and play each group out. By the end, only the top 3 players per group should make it to the playoffs, with the 1st place finisher needing to win only one Bo5 series to reach the finals. Then... make the finals a huge bigged up Best of 9 showmatch between the Division A victors in the playoffs. Give each player 2 weeks to prepare and put $30,000 on the line. Suddenly.... you are gonna see shit that is GSL Finals good.
As for other divisions, make the bottom 3 spot a relegation zone and the top 3 spot a promotion zone, so if you get bottom 3 of Division C, you're out. Suddenly, NASL means a whole bloody lot more. Or if you like, make the best and the worst player in a group face instant promotion/relegation and the next two in order compete for promotion/relegation.
Our offline final for season 3 only included of the league's top 8 players.
That gave players three days (or was it 2? lol) to prepare and play a grand total of three matches.
While the format you describe would certainly be exciting, it's not really our vision for the league.
Perhaps a 9 week season is too long - and this is something we've considered, and may tamper with in the future - but we do not want to deny players like Lowely the awesome opportunity to put together impressive runs like the one he made in season 3.
What I meant was.... take this for a hypothetical example....
In the Ro8, Stephano has to play Puzzle but if he advances to the Semifinals, he has to play either Ret or PuMa meaning he either has to prepare for a ZvZ or a TvZ on top of the ZvP. Then if Stephano makes it to the finals he has to face either Keen, Ostojiy, HuK or MajOr, meaning he has all manner of playstyles and races to practice against.
You're hardly going to get "GSL Finals" quality games in the NASL Grand Finals if players only get 3 days to prepare for the three series that will be thrown in quick succession (which could be 7 possible playstyles to pit yourself against.)
My point was that NASL could have filled a niche that only the GSL and OSL fulfill in their leagues, giving players a week to prepare for each series. NASL does this nicely.... before the Grand Finals. And then it just risks turning into every other NA/EU tournament, a clusterfuck of possible games where you have to rely on your skill in such a situation instead of being given time to prepare.
This is why I don't really like leagues like MLG or IPL. They just feel like hours and hours of constant games rather than being a big event played out over several weeks in consumable chunks.
silly, silly we all know stephano doesnt prepare for his matches :p
On August 31 2012 06:14 patronage wrote: Whats with the MMA hate?
He will do fine......
People have short term memory loss. If a player hasn't won a major tournament in the past month, it seems that they are suddenly bad.
Silly how people are complaining about MMA. 2 GSL titles AND he's accomplished more than any foreigner in 2012 AND he's in Code S. Is he as dominant as he was during late 2011? No, but he's still better than most of the players in the NASL now.
On September 02 2012 08:57 BathTubNZ wrote: I guess they waived the team requirement.
It was always a team/sponsorship requirement, iirc. That's why players like White-Ra were allowed to play every season. Although I am confused about Morrow.
On September 02 2012 08:57 BathTubNZ wrote: I guess they waived the team requirement.
It was always a team/sponsorship requirement, iirc. That's why players like White-Ra were allowed to play every season. Although I am confused about Morrow.
Maybe they won't kick you out if you are already in.
I always laugh when idiots ask why people get invites... Some players get massive viewership, most of the time they are the best players and NASL went and picked fan favorites/best players and people still bitch.
qualifying =/= best skill, a lucky bo3 where someone goes 11/11rax twice and manages to luck out of 10pool 10pool in a zvz can close out a top player with a mediocre player and then we get an entire tournament of mediocre players... Invites = good thing.
On September 02 2012 10:57 NeMeSiS3 wrote: I always laugh when idiots ask why people get invites... Some players get massive viewership, most of the time they are the best players and NASL went and picked fan favorites/best players and people still bitch.
qualifying =/= best skill, a lucky bo3 where someone goes 11/11rax twice and manages to luck out of 10pool 10pool in a zvz can close out a top player with a mediocre player and then we get an entire tournament of mediocre players... Invites = good thing.
If they didn't get invites, the people would just complain (like they have in the past) that NASL doesn't have the best players in the world competing.
Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching.
Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective.
There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no? A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites.
The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate)
That's well and good, but what about some other players like: Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner
I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list.
Another thing that's been niggling me about the NASL is that too many players from a given season are automatically given a spot in the next season. It seems odd to me that 5 players who went 3-5 in season 3 are given a spot in Season 4 automatically. Meanwhile, you've got dozens of good players, including at least a dozen great ones, vying for a measly 4 spots in the qualifiers, and another measly 4 spots in invites.
It seems to me there's a problem with the system when you have to decide whether it's MMA or MVP that gets to play in the NASL 4 while Hwangsin, Targa, qxc, Mana, and Vibe are automatically in on mediocre season 3 performances.
Also, remember the open tournament from last season? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/North_American_Star_League_Season_3/Open_Tournament In a tournament with a noticeable absence in A list talent, you've got 4 spots into the NASL4. Compare that to the huge list of names competing for 4 spots in the NASL 4 qualifiers. It seems to me that if you want an easy way into the NASL, you should wait for the open tournament.
On September 02 2012 11:57 Gatesleeper wrote: Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching.
Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective.
There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no? A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites.
The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate)
That's well and good, but what about some other players like: Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner
I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list.
Stop nitpicking. There is no perfect system, and NASL's invites are fine. The 5 invited players are all players that will bring in viewers AND have demonstrated strong play. That should be sufficient
I’m really interested in this scoring method and am looking forward to seeing the full list published (partly because I’m a massive nerd and love lists and also because I want to see just how awesome MC is). Fair play to Fodan for spending his time crunching out these numbers, no doubt it was an incredibly laborious task.
To me it all seems pretty solid apart from the decay system (which to be fair has been acknowledged several times in this thread). The biggest problem I have with this is it seems to favour people who played more recently. Say a guy gets 3 RO32 spots in Homestory, GSL and IEM (109.5 points) from Jan till Feb, then nothing till August and loses all their points and are out ranked by a person who got just 1 RO32 spot in ASUS August. Of course you could argue that most recent performances are the most important (this is true even more so in SC2) and this system will improve the longer its used but I still feel it could be improved. The tennis ATP system seems to have one of the best deduction systems, it deducts points based on previous results from the same tournament (so if you won a GSL the only way to not have points deducted is to win the next GSL, or at least I think that’s how it works, I’m not 100% sure). Of course the drawback to this method is that it’s pretty damn complicated :S
Either way seriously can’t wait for NASL 4. NASL 3 has been the tournament I enjoyed the most this year (by a long way) and they’ve improved by leaps and bounds since the first season. Also I’ve finally got an internet connection that isn’t powered by a hamster wheel so I can finally justify a HD pass :D
Yup, that is how the ATP ranking works. You earn X amount of points at a given tournament, and you keep those points until one year passes and that same tournament comes up again. Then, the points you had earned the previous year is your "points defending". If you do worse than you did the previous year, you lose points. If you do better, you gain points. Or if you achieve the same result, your points remain static.
It's a decent system, but not one that could work in the current sc2 pro scene, because our tournaments don't follow any sort of calendar year, except IEM, MLG, and Dreamhack.
I think the decay system is fine. GSL uses a similar system to determine their rankings.
I really love how NASL tries to make a totally impartial ranking to pick their invites. It is not perfect, but more fair than any other invite systems out there.
On September 02 2012 11:57 Gatesleeper wrote: Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching.
Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective.
There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no? A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites.
The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate)
That's well and good, but what about some other players like: Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner
I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list.
On August 31 2012 00:53 Yonnua wrote: I make it something along the lines of:
But those are only rough because the methodology isn't 100% explicit when it comes to in progress tournaments and how the decay works. Those are just rough values to give some kind of indication.
Which means Mvp might be the secret invite, or it could be Oz or Naniwa.
And if you read the rules, you'd know that only IPL and GSL count for Squirtle and neither WCS count for Scarlett.
This is really awesome, if the finals are in Toronto. That would be awesome but I hope if they are there actually in Toronto and not in Mississauga with little to nothing around it compared to Toronto.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.nasl.tv/Public/Images/News/Large/41b17670-d762-4106-837a-58322693793d.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.nasl.tv/Content/Uploads/NASLS4/nasl_leaderboard_infographic.png)
![[image loading]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NE8LPUNeiDE/UA2vbdzw2XI/AAAAAAAALhw/R-iNq_OhVEA/s640/DSC_5980.JPG)
!![[image loading]](http://screenshooter.net/data/uploads/qe/hj/gjwy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MzFOL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i46.tinypic.com/2vrtxtz.png)
