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On August 30 2012 04:27 how2TL wrote:We already have a confirmed silver leaguer of all people thinking they could do a better job.
At no point did I say I could do a better job, so you can stick that strawman where the sun doesn't shine. I simply said that he makes me feel more knowledgeable than himself when he makes basic mistakes that are obvious to me, and as I'm only a silver leaguer, that simply shouldn't be happening.
I'm all for Moletraps continued improvement, as I said in my post. I offered my opinion on how that might happen. This is a place for constructive criticism. I gave it. What did you do?
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One guy that's surprisingly good lately is Kaelaris.
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On August 30 2012 05:18 cosmo.6792 wrote:
It's misguided to ask casters like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit to raise their high-level knowledge of the game. These guys are not GM level players. They never will be. Consequently, they will NEVER become good analysts. Trying to shoehorn them into the "analyst" role is a recipe for disaster. The only thing worse than a caster that offers no analysis, is a caster that offers wrong analysis.
Moletrap (like Totalbiscuit) is at his best working as a color commentator. Provide an exciting play-by-play call on what's happening on-screen and on the mini-map. Don't overstep their bounds by trying to "analyze" the game. Leave that to the co-caster, who SHOULD be an analyst. The analyst should be a pro gamer with deep knowledge of the game, someone like Grubby or IdrA or Artosis.
Unfortunately, most people in these forums don't seem to understand that color commentators are necessary in this business. They all just want a bunch of analysts droning on and on about "smart stuff". And while that may sound exciting for hardcore SC2 buffs, for the casual viewers too much analysis becomes a bore. There's a good reason why football and basketball games are almost always cast by a color commentator AND an analyst.
Guys like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are terrific, exciting color commentators. They shouldn't even try "analyzing" games. Leave that to an analytic co-caster.
I agree to the point that not every Caster has to be an analytical caster, but I think Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are different. Totalbiscuit has little knowlage about the game and he knows he does. I don't watch Totalbiscuits casts very often, but I remember him asking his cocaster to explain what's going on in the game every now and then, which is great in my opinion. Totalbiscuit himself knows he doesn't have the neccessary understanding of the game, so he leaves the analyzing part to his cocaster. Moletrap on the other hand tries to analyze what's going on every now and then, which results in wrong calls way too often. There are 2 solutions to this problem: Either he steps up his game knowlage (probably not going to happen, would take a lot of time) or he flat out stops trying to analyze and instead sticks to color commentating.
That being said, I personally don't find Moletraps casting very entertaining. It's not terrible, but I would watch most casters over Moletrap. It's hard to explain why. His casting for some reason just doesn't appeal to me that much.
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Okay, since this is his first cast I also put him some points of improvement regarding his casting back at GOM.
(Also im Diamond, referring to How2TL's request to post league)
First of all, as many already pointed out, he lacks to much game knowledge. It seems like he isn't nearly as enthusiastic as he was in BW (Learning Builds, knowing timings, stuff like that).
Second critic point: He calls engagement wrong, is anti-enthusiastic when it is accurate or enthusiastic when it's just sum minor things, which are even pointless or nothing special.
As an addition to that, his overall voice-acting during a cast becomes kinda enerving, due to the things I just listed, regardless of how he tends to "squek" when he's overenthusiastic.
His co-casting isn't really entertaining aswell (just based on his casting back at GOM (didn't listen to his bw-casting)). I remember him teaming up with Doa,Wolf and Khaldor and none of these duos were really in sync. There was just this feeling of arkwardness, comparable to 2 guys sitting in a bar and not rellay know what to talk about.
Jokes didn't really work or non-gaming conversations didn't really happen (and I don't expect Tastosis-godlike interacting), so it felt more forced than anything else and not entertaining, which is the point of casting. I don't say it's all Moletrap's fault, nor any of the other 3 casters, but it's the responsibilty of both to get a good cast going.
To sum it up, I feel he isn't coming after his job responsibilites and he has to step up his on-stage interacting, which also includes his own confidence level.
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Since Moletrap didn't start this thread, nor ask for this feedback, I can hardly believe that this thread is a means to improve his casting. Secondly, you're biased from both the tone of the OP, and blatantly, in words. Therefore, I assume this is an indirect attempt to get Moletrap fired by means of a demonstration of public opinion, and yet more indirectly, to get another caster to take over for him.
Though I personally dislike his casting, I find this thread extremely distasteful...
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He honestly just don't know what's going on. It was clear in GSL and is even clearer now in OSL. It's like he doesn't follow the scene at all, and the only stats he has are the ones shoved in his face. YES we know there is downtime at the beginning of a game, yes we know some aren't exactly GSL Code S players, but nevertheless you have to tell us about the player, his recent matches, his history, ect ect. FILL THE GAP IT'S YOUR JOB, but not with unrelated and not funny anecdotes please. Once in a while it's fine, like on a second or third match of a BO7 but there needs to be more sustenance in general.
Then when that opening phase is over, you have to predict what will happen in the game. You keep staying stuff like 'Protoss often does a 4 gate zealot timing to apply pressure to the zerg and force him to make units.' Very true, but we're at 9 minutes and the protoss has 4 gases, talk about that instead of something he is CLEARLY NOT DOING.
Anyways, your casting is okay but it would be good or even great if you had any idea what is going on. I get you're an entertainer but you need more knowledge than a gold (or apparently silver) player. If it's bad to them imagine the large midmasters player base who hate your guts for making clearly wrong calls continuously.
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MVP vs Flying
25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv'
later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
-___- o.O crazy
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Either Moletrap or the casting conditions OGN gave him (monitor 'n such) need to improve... alot.
RO 16 day 2 MVP vs Flying: Flying does some super agressive immortal sentry with pylon warping in zealots in the main and kills 25 Mvp SCVs. the director shows SCVs killed smack in the middle of the screen and Moletrap goes on saying Mvp didn't take much damage... 5, 6 maybe 7 SCVs... wtf man..
EDIT: damn guess i'm #2 with this one.
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On August 30 2012 07:03 ChoDing wrote:
MVP vs Flying
25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv'
later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
-___- o.O crazy
Having a BW background, he probably rounds to the nearest multiple of 12.
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On August 30 2012 07:08 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 07:03 ChoDing wrote:
MVP vs Flying
25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv'
later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
-___- o.O crazy Having a BW background, he probably rounds to the nearest multiple of 12.
But the numbers are there on screen, color coded and everything, I don't understand. I mean, I get missing the occasional drop or w/e if you're obsing as well, but not seeing that. How, how does that happen?
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On August 30 2012 07:10 Cleavin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 07:08 Gfire wrote:On August 30 2012 07:03 ChoDing wrote:
MVP vs Flying
25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv'
later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
-___- o.O crazy Having a BW background, he probably rounds to the nearest multiple of 12. But the numbers are there on screen, color coded and everything, I don't understand. I mean, I get missing the occasional drop or w/e if you're obsing as well, but not seeing that. How, how does that happen?
Yeah. It's inexcusable, but probably forgivable. Moletrap's casting could probably use some work, and the technical setup they have as well, but I'll still watch it.
I would like to see him co-cast with grubby and see what comes out of it.
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Honestly, I followed him from the early youtube BW casts (2009ish range) and even though he doesn't exactly have a easy to listen to voice nor a very great knowledge for the games, he compensates it with his enthusiasm.
Very far from being my favourite caster, but I'm glad he managed to get into this position through hard work and persistence.
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he is doing a great job. improved greatly.
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I don't want to say anything negative about moletrap but I don't think he really measures up to the top 'analysis' casters like Artosis, Apollo and Rotterdam or the very good 'color' casters like Doa, Khaldor and Total Biscuit. Then again I don't think Tasteless is particularly wonderful either and everyone seems to think he's great. Some of the same things- sounding bored, corny jokes and making wrong calls I notice Tasteless doing a lot too yet nobody ever complains about it. I guess it's all a popularity contest in the end.
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I don't like Moletrap OSL casting. I've nothing against him and I didn't really mind when he was casting for GOM because he had a co caster, but alone he's really not up to the task in my opinion. He doesn't seem comfortable either, he's quite hesitating (maybe because it's hard to be confident when hundreds of people flame you on forums), says wrong things and misses other important ones, and overall doesn't seem enthusiastic and is neither an analytic or "hype" kind of caster.
Artosis and tasteless are great because even if tasteless is not as knowledgeable about the game right now (at least I think), he has the m fing starcraft wikipedia with him, and their conversation is great. Same with apollo and TB, TB is awesome, and apollo makes for the analytic part.
Moletrap alone just feels like, "whatever I'll do what I can", and it just sounds wrong to me. Maybe with a co caster it'll be fine, and even alone it's not enough to prevent me from watching OSL, but it would be better with a casting up to the standing of this league.
Also, it seems that his conditions are not that great, he said himself that interviews translating were done by his producer who doesn't speak english well, he has brackets in korean, and a shitty screen it seems.. doesn't help either 
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he just need a cocaster because solo casting is very hard
as caster for osl is ok for me
i dont mind
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I've only really watched him the last couple days of OSL, but I think his biggest problem is that he flat out doesn't understand what he's looking at. He doesn't seem to understand builds well, and he flat out misses things that are right in front of him (see MVP's SCV losses). I like to have games on the background while I do something else on the computer, but with his casting I don't feel like I can do that and still have a decent grasp of the overall state of the game.
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1) Not enough knowledge. If random people can get to masters with a little effort, then surely someone whose JOB relates to Starcraft 2 can do better and have more understanding of the game? Even the simplest of things he either doesn't notice or takes a really long time to. Like when Jangbi accidentally used guardian shield instead of force field. He didn't comment on that until a few minutes into the REPLAY of the game. Or when Rain warps zealots into MKP's main and then focuses on an engagement in the middle, so his zealots just attack whatever's closest. Moletrap's comment is that he's targeting the sensor tower, despite the fact that it's incredibly obvious that he's not targeting anything in particular. Just SO many little things like this.
2) Talk more fluidly. Talking.... like this, uh, all the time...... is just really bad casting.
3) Do more research on the players/maps. It seems like at least once in every single matchup Moletrap doesn't know something, and flounders about until he either says that he isn't sure or his producer tells him. Despite being just a casual viewer, I constantly feel as though I know more about the subject than he does.
4) He really just can't show enthusiasm very well. Get someone else to do the player intros.
5) Not applicable right now since he's casting solo, but during the OSL finals he CONSTANTLY talked over his co-casters, ignored them, went on and on himself without giving anyone else a chance to speak, etc. We don't need to hear you talking all the time.
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On August 30 2012 07:03 ChoDing wrote:
MVP vs Flying
25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv'
later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
-___- o.O crazy
Tis okay, man.
Mules are that good.
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On August 30 2012 06:13 Ljas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 05:18 cosmo.6792 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's misguided to ask casters like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit to raise their high-level knowledge of the game. These guys are not GM level players. They never will be. Consequently, they will NEVER become good analysts. Trying to shoehorn them into the "analyst" role is a recipe for disaster. The only thing worse than a caster that offers no analysis, is a caster that offers wrong analysis.
Moletrap (like Totalbiscuit) is at his best working as a color commentator. Provide an exciting play-by-play call on what's happening on-screen and on the mini-map. Don't overstep their bounds by trying to "analyze" the game. Leave that to the co-caster, who SHOULD be an analyst. The analyst should be a pro gamer with deep knowledge of the game, someone like Grubby or IdrA or Artosis.
Unfortunately, most people in these forums don't seem to understand that color commentators are necessary in this business. They all just want a bunch of analysts droning on and on about "smart stuff". And while that may sound exciting for hardcore SC2 buffs, for the casual viewers too much analysis becomes a bore. There's a good reason why football and basketball games are almost always cast by a color commentator AND an analyst.
Guys like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are terrific, exciting color commentators. They shouldn't even try "analyzing" games. Leave that to an analytic co-caster. I think TB is a great caster and I completely agree with everything in your posts, except for the parts where it said "Moletrap", unfortunately. I just tuned in to the Korean OSL stream because I didn't feel like he was saying anything worth listening to. TB can make educated guesses about the players' intentions based on his own knowledge and from what he's gathered from their playstyle, while still leaving the more indepth stuff to the analytical caster. Moletrap's lack of insight really shows with the constant wrong calls. A good caster doesn't get hyped up about something and just go "Oh nevermind" mid-sentence because he realizes it was nothing after all. I also feel he doesn't have the voice to be a pbp caster. I lack the language skills to describe it, but I'm sure you get the idea. Not raising his voice too much like in the Jangbi v Fantasy finals has made him muchmore pleasant to listen to. All in all, his casting isn't killing Esports, but there's much to improve on.
Exactly! Decided to watch the vods just to see PartinG play and right off the bat I was kind of confused by his casting game knowledge wise and player wise.... really disappointing that no recognition was given to PartinG's placing in WCS korea... Mistaking a tech lab for a reactor (production tab is there for a reason..) Factory and more gas go down and no notice by him.. Mistakes on timing pushes (stim/combat shield timing, proper timings for upgrades being out)
Spewing nonsense about some random build that he could be going for and taking it back as if no on heard it (really would confuse those people with not alot of starcraft knowledge) Not calling out drops at all (observer is even doing his job pointing them out) Terrible knowledge with reactions to certain builds ("its good to pre emptively build vikings before colossi so you can keep up with their numbers" no thats just wasting supply and taking up space for medivacs) Saying the wrong things about forcefields going out ("Oh a few units get caught in 2 forcefields" "parting throwing out forcefields for positioning and to show the threat of forcefields" no he baited them every single time in the open they were baited) No comment about archons at all in the end battle (he feedbacked made archons and it helped with the aoe dmg to the bio units and helped tank dmg)
This being the first time I've heard him cast I really didnt enjoy listening to his because of what was stated above and some of the complaints of others. Lack of game knowledge and metagame and not looking at the production tab (aka guessing what a structure or addon is or even missing structures going down.) really hurts a cast.
OSL also need the observer to improve aswell.. I can see the units dying dont need the units tab up during a fight I would like to see if they're building anything else like units or structures..
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EPT
