Edit: Let me preface this by mentioning, this is to be based on his casting for OGN, not for GomTV! His casting has changed a lot since he casted at GomTV, and it would be errenous to judge him off of past work, and not current work.
Since Moletrap started casting OSL, many people have been passionately arguing for or against his casting. Let me preface this by saying I am not a Moletrap fan, however, i'm not going to go into any details aside from that.
It appears clear that he will be casting for OGN long term, so rather than flame him post after post, why don't we attempt to make a constructive criticism thread? When I searched TL for a Moletrap feedback thread, I was astonished that there wasn't one. Maybe if there was one, his casting would have improved much more a long time ago.
I will attach a poll with the same options available in the Khaldor thread, just to get TL user opinions. However, I strongly request if you vote in the poll, have some CONSTRUCTIVE feedback to back it up. Otherwise, that defeats the purpose, and this thread will be promptly closed. So lets keep it civil and polite, and try our best to help Moletrap improve and meet the expectations of the community!
Poll: What is your opinion on Moletrap casting for OGN?
I don't like his casting at all! (584)
63%
Doing average and has to improve! (199)
21%
Doing great... I like his style! (144)
16%
927 total votes
Your vote: What is your opinion on Moletrap casting for OGN?
(Vote): Doing great... I like his style! (Vote): Doing average and has to improve! (Vote): I don't like his casting at all!
For those of you in need of a demonstration of constructive feedback, I will demonstrate with my own constructive feedback.
My main greivance with Moletrap is his apparent apathy in many situations. I've noticed that he will lose his enthusiasm for a game far before it appears to be over to the viewer. While in his eyes, there may be no chance of a comeback, I believe he should maintain the possiblity and keep enthusiastic for the audience, otherwise the audience loses interest and becomes annoyed or frusterated.
Similarly, I wish he was better at hyping players (maybe based on performance and statistics), sometimes a player will come out, and he will just talk about how much of a nobody the player is, then say something like "who knows, maybe it'll be an interesting game anyway." To me, this is unacceptable, even if someone is unknown you can put a positive spin of hype behind him. For example, "Player B is largely unknown, but player A has been struggling as of late with X, and player B may be the sort of dark horse that can capitolize on such a thing."
He also seems a bit monotoned to me, which actually, I believe Grubby will do a great deal to remedy when he casts with him during the OSL.
Likewise, here is an example of unconstructive feedback. DO NOT POST LIKE THIS!
I think he's doing quite well so far, casting the most prestigious league by yourself is a daunting task. With a broadcast partner, and maybe a higher level of SC2 knowledge I'd be quite happy.
On August 30 2012 03:35 Little-Chimp wrote: I think he's doing quite well so far, casting the most prestigious league by yourself is a daunting task. With a broadcast partner, and maybe a higher level of SC2 knowledge I'd be quite happy.
Yeah, to me it almost seems like he can't get the hang of play by play commentary, and should be more of an analytical guy, but at the same time, I'm not sure if his knowledge of SC2 strategy is up to snuff. Obviously, with Grubby by him, he will be the play by play guy. When Doa comes back, I'd assume he will be the analytical guy though. At least we will be able to see him in both positions and assess his skillset fully. It is harder to give him a fair assessment when he is at the helm alone.
Hopefully people will have watched his recent OSL casts, rather than voting based on previous performances for GOM. Based on the LR threads, his casting has improved from when he was with GOM.
I think one complaint not about moletrap himself per se is the casting setup OGN see to have, which seems to be moletrap not having control of any screen, and having a low(er) quality video feed, which isn't ideal, but hopefully in the long run this will change.
One issue relating to this is that moletrap was quite vocal today in discussing these things, which isn't necessarily appropriate for a professional caster, and some things should possibly be avoided rather than mentioned.
I would say he's pretty okay. The problem I have is that he's been doing this for so incredibly long that I kinda doubt he's ever going to be able to get past "pretty okay"
Biggest issue with Moletrap for me is, as stated above, his lack of enthusiasm. He knows a decent amount about the game, but doesn't have the same love for it that other casters do. He sounds like someone forced him to be there casting.
I understand that solo casting can be really really hard, but he's been doing this for a long time now and should be expected to be able to keep up.
That being said, he has improved greatly since the GSL days. He doesn't act foolish in the same way, and definitely have benefitted from working with the ultra-professional culture at OGN. I think that with the right co-caster he will be decent, but there are definitely better casters out there.
Also - Doa is not a solution, he is a problem for Moletrap. When they were together at GOM they were horrible and barely casted in lieu of joking with each other and telling silly stories about how they hang out with Tasteless so much. Please OGN! NO DOA!!
On August 30 2012 03:38 Lonyo wrote: Hopefully people will have watched his recent OSL casts, rather than voting based on previous performances for GOM. Based on the LR threads, his casting has improved from when he was with GOM.
I think one complaint not about moletrap himself per se is the casting setup OGN see to have, which seems to be moletrap not having control of any screen, and having a low(er) quality video feed, which isn't ideal, but hopefully in the long run this will change.
One issue relating to this is that moletrap was quite vocal today in discussing these things, which isn't necessarily appropriate for a professional caster, and some things should possibly be avoided rather than mentioned.
Your first point is a good one. I will edit it into the OP. Thanks.
He needs to vastly improve his working knowledge of Starcraft 2. I feel I know more about it than he does and I've only been playing irregularly for 6 months and am a lowly silver leaguer. He's had 2 years as a professional caster. He should know a lot more than I do about the game. On that note, I think he should recieve some coaching in all the races and play them regularly. Even if his mechanics hold him in the lower leagues, he needs to understand the game at a higher level.
There are problems with him going off on uninteresting tangents, but I believe that will be largely solved if his knowledge increases and he'll have more to say about the game. He's not particularly funny, but I think that's partially a confidence issue, which would again be fixed if he had a decent amount of game sense. He would feel more in control and at ease and that would show in his humor.
I think he needs to spend time watching vods of himself casting as soon as possible after the event, noting a list of obvious mistakes (bad calls, missed action etc.) jot them down and figure out why he made the mistake, and just to ask people in the know how he could have read the situation better. I'm sure there would be plenty of english speaking players who would offer that advice freely. Hopefully Grubby can fill that role outside of the studio and help Moletrap get up to speed a bit.
He could really do with a fellow caster or some kind of casting coach just to sit him down and say 'look, here's what you are doing wrong, here's how to fix it'. Could he ask Artosis? I have no idea how their relationship is.
It feels almost like he doesn't watch SC2 to see how other people cast and the knowlede they bring to the table. It might be a little weak, but he could regurgitate some stuff he's learned that way quite easily. It would certainly be an improvement.
As it stands, his casting is very distracting to me and doesn't usually do it's supposed job of enhancing the game. If he can't or won't get better I would prefer it if he didn't do it at all. If I felt he was making effort to improve then I would happily support him.
i like moletrap so many haters here in teamliquid its really sad , i like how he cast and enjoy his commentaries, like ohh no!!!!!!, dont listen to trolls moletrap, haters going to hate!!!!
On August 30 2012 03:50 bigtabs wrote: I feel I know more about it than he does and I've only been playing irregularly for 6 months and am a lowly silver leaguer.
On August 30 2012 04:12 elmexicano wrote: i like moletrap so many haters here in teamliquid its really sad , i like how he cast and enjoy his commentaries, like ohh no!!!!!!, dont listen to trolls moletrap, haters going to hate!!!!
The world is not divided into 'people that agree with you' and 'trolls/haters'.
He needs to vastly improve his working knowledge of Starcraft 2. I feel I know more about it than he does and I've only been playing irregularly for 6 months and am a lowly silver leaguer. He's had 2 years as a professional caster. He should know a lot more than I do about the game. On that note, I think he should recieve some coaching in all the races and play them regularly. Even if his mechanics hold him in the lower leagues, he needs to understand the game at a higher level.
Pretty much this. I can tolerate a less than gold plated radio voice or tangential stories if I am getting competent in-game perspective. I don't need Moletrap to be an analyst but I do need him to have a better understanding of the inner-workings of the game to keep me listening if he's by himself. Probably will be fine with Grubby though.
I only saw him a few times. I don't know. He's middle of the road ok, could improve, but not bad. I read somewhere that he is better casting alone than with a partner, why is that? And what happened to him at GSL? I listen to Korean commentators, so I don't know.
I would like to see Moletrap playing diamond or better on the Korean ladder before he casts another game. One of the largest issues he has is game knowledge. I understand this is an issue for many casters, but this is Proleauge and the OSL. This is supposed to be the biggest stage for professional e sports. I don't feel his game knowledge cuts it by any means consideringthe circumstances.
As someone who watched BW for a long time and just recently started watching sc2. I find moletrap's casting ok, especially when taking into the account that he is casting solo. I think it's too early to judge until he gets a partner or something.
On August 30 2012 04:12 elmexicano wrote: i like moletrap so many haters here in teamliquid its really sad , i like how he cast and enjoy his commentaries, like ohh no!!!!!!, dont listen to trolls moletrap, haters going to hate!!!!
The world is not divided into 'people that agree with you' and 'trolls/haters'.
mm a hater, please go to rededit and make another thread to hate on moletrap, theres like 5 right now i bet at least one its yours, dont you haters have another think to do.? like play sc2 ,ladder or play guilds wars 2> shu shuuuu
i dislike his casting because he does not appear to be knowledgeable of Top level Korean metagame and players. The main difference i see with someone like Moletrap and someone like Khaldor is that Khaldor devotes alot of his time to the SC2 community in addition to his casting, so not only is he generally more liked, but he is very educated in player backgrounds at at events all over the world. Also he is a bit monotone sometimes. However, he does not deserve a lot of the flaming he gets, a one man caster crew must be tough. He is getting paid for it though, so he puts himself up to scrutiny as a result.
My complaint with moletrap is that he doesn't really follow the Korean SC2 scene well enough. I think he's a good fit for OSL casting since he can give a good background on a lot of the BW players transitioning into SC2, but his knowledge on the current (Korean) SC2 meta is a bit lacking.
I first heard of Moletrap when I started to watch some Pro BW a few years ago. I liked him a lot back then and I still do but I have to admit his casting isn't the same. I think his overall knowledge of BW was/is higher than for SC2 and it does hurt him a bit. There are times where you just wonder "how the hell did he miss that?!" and things alike but when it occurs I simply remind myself that casting professionaly is without a doubt a diffcult job (especially when solo casting) and that he is simply human. I never understood all the hate around him and will never join their ranks.
I voted "Average and has to improve" as he obviously has some stuff to work on. I'm sure Moletrap would agree with that at the very least. Just give him some time imo. He'll learn and his love for the game will do the rest.
Edit: Oh and I would choose Moletrap over Khaldor in a heartbeat any day of the week. I can't put my finger on why I dislike him so much but I just can't stand him.
If I would give a point of improvement, i'd say it would be his tendency to make generic comments. I'm going to give a few examples and then elaborate on it.
Examples: 'So, now he's going to drop some units, hoping to harass some workers.' 'I see player A is building those barracks now, so he can build those marines.' 'Here we see an engagement, and it looks like player A is coming out on top.'
To be honest, he is not by a long shot the only one who i noticed making these kind of comments, but for me, that doesn't make the point less valid. These 3 examples were not said literally, but they are for illustrative purposes. The general issue with these kind of statements is the lack of added value. The first comment could be the beginning of a nice story, told by moletrap. Is the opponent vulnerable to drops? Does the map lend itself for drops? Is some player known for dropplay or known to have terrible multitasking? Is there a positional advantage to be gained as a consequence of the drop? Is the drop part of his overall strategy, or maybe to catch the opponent off guard? Is this a doomdrop or a drop to see if i can keep the opponent occupied? As you can see, there is a lot to say about this one drop. Some of it requires knowledge of players, some of it of the map, someof it of the races, etc. Assuming Moletrap has enough knowledge, he can color all these kind of comments with it's goal or context in the game. This gives significant added value to the cast. Also, i've noted that all caster i have no significant points of improvement in my view (artosis, grubby and d'apollo) all do this. Also, spice things up! Instead of saying things to happen. Say if you like something or not. This is very delicate and difficult and can easily swing too much in the positive or negative (wolf has had this tendence a while back) direction, but it makes a cast worth soo much.
These were my 2 cents, i hope they're worth anything.
I like moletrap as a commentator but my one gripe with him was that he tends to talk over his caster. So far hes been solo in the current OSL but i remember during the last BW OSL final, he would often just completley talk over his co (Torch i think it was) even when he was in the middle of a point. Apart from that, exagerating everything can get a little annoying (calling minor things insane, amazing epic etc) but every single caster I know does that so can't really complain there.
I like Moletrap. Believe it or not, he's one of my favorite casters. He used to really grate on me with his terrible jokes and his less-than-perfect casting voice.
But Moletrap grew on me. Like a fungus.
His obvious jokes are terrible, but in the way Fozzy the Bear's jokes are terrible - it becomes endearing. His subtle, dry humor is HILARIOUS and I bet 90% of people totally miss those straight-face joke deliveries. The vest he was wearing the night before was perfect! Just stuffy enough & out of date enough to fit the theme.
Most of all, Moletrap is always happy and upbeat. It's kind of the opposite of South Park. South Park is often awesome, but always negative. They can't cover a subject without making fun of & belittling it, it's their schtick. Similarly, Moletrap can't help but be a fanboy constantly amazed and overjoyed to be a caster in Korea. This constant happiness and positivism is definitely one of his big selling points.
Yes, he does have a bad habit of admitting when a game is over - talk about something else, play-by-play the specific action... but this is a small thing.
The larger points of Moletrap's style, I hope he doesn't change. For me, Moletrap + Doa is one of the great casting combos up there with Tastetosis & Bitterdam. Moletrap provides the enthusiasm, the Fozzy jokes, and the subtle jokes Doa never gets. Doa plays the foil, cringing in horror at Moletrap's Fozzy jokes & adds the buttery-smooth radio voice.
Doa might suffer, but I will enjoy Moletrap casting with him (and Moletrap casting alone) nonetheless.
My personal thoughts: Only noobs bash casters. The others see for themselves what happens in a game. Even more, when theres a dedicated observer. So for me the whole "casters need skill"-discussion is absolutely useless. And everyone who "hates" a specific caster just tells me that his opinion is worthless.
It's misguided to ask casters like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit to raise their high-level knowledge of the game. These guys are not GM level players. They never will be. Consequently, they will NEVER become good analysts. Trying to shoehorn them into the "analyst" role is a recipe for disaster. The only thing worse than a caster that offers no analysis, is a caster that offers wrong analysis.
Moletrap (like Totalbiscuit) is at his best working as a color commentator. Provide an exciting play-by-play call on what's happening on-screen and on the mini-map. Don't overstep their bounds by trying to "analyze" the game. Leave that to the co-caster, who SHOULD be an analyst. The analyst should be a pro gamer with deep knowledge of the game, someone like Grubby or IdrA or Artosis.
Unfortunately, most people in these forums don't seem to understand that color commentators are necessary in this business. They all just want a bunch of analysts droning on and on about "smart stuff". And while that may sound exciting for hardcore SC2 buffs, for the casual viewers too much analysis becomes a bore. There's a good reason why football and basketball games are almost always cast by a color commentator AND an analyst.
Guys like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are terrific, exciting color commentators. They shouldn't even try "analyzing" games. Leave that to an analytic co-caster.
On August 30 2012 05:12 cari-kira wrote: My personal thoughts: Only noobs bash casters. The others see for themselves what happens in a game. Even more, when theres a dedicated observer. So for me the whole "casters need skill"-discussion is absolutely useless. And everyone who "hates" a specific caster just tells me that his opinion is worthless.
I don't think this is a fair point of view. It can't be, "If you don't agree with me, you're a noob and don't deserve an opinion." I appreciate casters and know that it is a very, very hard job and that it can't always be expected for them to cast perfectly, but I still expect a certain level of quality. Everyone has bad days, but there has to be a time where the caster improves upon their skills. No one can be expected to improve if there is no criticism.
So Moletrap, I think that you are decent but you still have some areas to improve on. I think for starters, maybe work with another caster once a day for a few minutes and try to avoid talking over them. Know when it's appropriate to correct your co-caster (there have been times when every caster has done this and potentially embarrassed their co-caster) as to not embarrass them. Another gripe that I find is that you sometimes will over-exaggerate the excitement and tension in one certain situation, but greatly under-exaggerate it in another. Just work on keeping your volume and excitement levels consistent and to not get too worked up over small things like minor harassment. If a hellion runby kills 25 drones, obviously you should get excited over it, but if a drop kills 5-7 workers, there's no real excitement.
Overall, I will continue to tune into OGN's stream and I hope that you, Grubby and DoA all work well together =)
On August 30 2012 05:18 cosmo.6792 wrote: It's misguided to ask casters like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit to raise their high-level knowledge of the game. These guys are not GM level players. They never will be. Consequently, they will NEVER become good analysts. Trying to shoehorn them into the "analyst" role is a recipe for disaster. The only thing worse than a caster that offers no analysis, is a caster that offers wrong analysis.
Moletrap (like Totalbiscuit) is at his best working as a color commentator. Provide an exciting play-by-play call on what's happening on-screen and on the mini-map. Don't overstep their bounds by trying to "analyze" the game. Leave that to the co-caster, who SHOULD be an analyst. The analyst should be a pro gamer with deep knowledge of the game, someone like Grubby or IdrA or Artosis.
Unfortunately, most people in these forums don't seem to understand that color commentators are necessary in this business. They all just want a bunch of analysts droning on and on about "smart stuff". And while that may sound exciting for hardcore SC2 buffs, for the casual viewers too much analysis becomes a bore. There's a good reason why football and basketball games are almost always cast by a color commentator AND an analyst.
Guys like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are terrific, exciting color commentators. They shouldn't even try "analyzing" games. Leave that to an analytic co-caster.
Wow. Everything you just wrote is completely true and what I've been wanting to say a long time. Unfortunately many tournaments don't understand this either and pairs two play-by-play casters together without anyone knowing the game and think it will be as good as Tasteless (play-by-play) and Artosis (color). Moletrap+DOA as originally indended in OSL won't be very good as neither has any analytical skills.
Edit: On topic - I think Moletrap is a great play-by-play caster that fits OSL very well since he knows alot of trivia about the BW progamers. He does need to work on commentating together with others.
Talk less/think more before you speak. Shout casting is great and people love it but if you want to be/sound professional hyping 2 marines killing a creep tumor like Jinro nuking an entire army =/= a good idea.
If you just relaxed more, kept your pitch/voice calm and casted the game not even analytically but in a way that is more relaxing and less "HE HAS THIS IN THE BAG OMGOMGOMGOGMGOMG" and the he loses you'd be a 10x better caster.
On August 30 2012 04:25 Picklebread wrote: Hes the reason why i don't watch code a and OSL.
He's not been casting Code A for a long time now though ~_~;
Moletrap needs to start playing the game, make notes about build openers, build orders, strategies, information on players' playstyle. I don't care, for my part he sits down with Artosis and asks for insight and help.
People saying that he works hard, well it's not showing when he doesn't know that you need an Armory for 2-2 upgrades and that when two times two Zealots get warped in someone's mineral line, he'll lose more than five or six workers if the workers are the only ones attacking them.
Things like when MVP's mineral line got attacked, he said something like: "Well he sends his whole army down to deal with those few zealots, but I guess it's okay since he wasn't doing with his army anyway. It's only good to keep his troops busy..." Sigh.
Another problem is that Moletrap can't observe himself. He needs to go and talk to OSL about that and make sure he gets his own observing station.
lol 2 hours and already 100+ people saying they dont like him Ill be honest, while he was part of the SC2 scene, he was imo easily the worst caster (even worse then derptorp) and thats still probably the same, but ill give him another try before i vote, seeing as how hes apparently better now. Sucks that most people wont be able to watch grubby cast just becuase hes with moletrap
On August 30 2012 05:12 cari-kira wrote: My personal thoughts: Only noobs bash casters. The others see for themselves what happens in a game. Even more, when theres a dedicated observer. So for me the whole "casters need skill"-discussion is absolutely useless. And everyone who "hates" a specific caster just tells me that his opinion is worthless.
I don't think this is a fair point of view. It can't be, "If you don't agree with me, you're a noob and don't deserve an opinion." I appreciate casters and know that it is a very, very hard job and that it can't always be expected for them to cast perfectly, but I still expect a certain level of quality. Everyone has bad days, but there has to be a time where the caster improves upon their skills. No one can be expected to improve if there is no criticism.
So Moletrap, I think that you are decent but you still have some areas to improve on. I think for starters, maybe work with another caster once a day for a few minutes and try to avoid talking over them. Know when it's appropriate to correct your co-caster (there have been times when every caster has done this and potentially embarrassed their co-caster) as to not embarrass them. Another gripe that I find is that you sometimes will over-exaggerate the excitement and tension in one certain situation, but greatly under-exaggerate it in another. Just work on keeping your volume and excitement levels consistent and to not get too worked up over small things like minor harassment. If a hellion runby kills 25 drones, obviously you should get excited over it, but if a drop kills 5-7 workers, there's no real excitement.
Overall, I will continue to tune into OGN's stream and I hope that you, Grubby and DoA all work well together =)
I think i perhaps didnt made myself clear. The sentence about "worthless opinions" was all about the "hating". There is no definition, what skills a caster has to have. You can get used to listen to a caster, if you dont "hate". I think people who "hate" have a mental problem. Seems to be a reality in the internet. But that dioesnt mean you have to adjust your product to these people. Its the loud minority in my eyes.
I just dont get the hate over Moletrap, I think he is by FAAAAAAR a better caster than as an example Doa. He was a little nervous the first day, but who cares, rly. He'll get better with time.
I love his casting and can't see the reason for the hate of his voice but I do totally agree with this:
On August 30 2012 03:50 bigtabs wrote: I'm basing this on GOM and the recent OSL:
He needs to vastly improve his working knowledge of Starcraft 2. I feel I know more about it than he does and I've only been playing irregularly for 6 months and am a lowly silver leaguer. He's had 2 years as a professional caster. He should know a lot more than I do about the game. On that note, I think he should recieve some coaching in all the races and play them regularly. Even if his mechanics hold him in the lower leagues, he needs to understand the game at a higher level.
As soon as he grasps this he will be one of the greats in my eyes.
He often (multiple times a game) contradicts himself or what is happening on the screen. I'm very obsessed with logic, so maybe this affects me a lot more than other viewers. His play-by-play is pretty average. However, he is bad at introducing players, occasionally showing his lack of enthusiasm very openly. His analysis is just plain wrong most of the time, but I guess his role will be the play-by-play part in the future.
Just like not everyone can become a professional player, not everyone can become a great caster. sure any joe can start casting and with practice and dedication become better, but i just dont think moletrap is one of them.
he sidetracks too much, yes an interesting story is great during the first 2 minutes but several stories per game is too much. he needs to focus more on the game itself.
he needs to improve his game knowledge. this is hard to do as you need to be able to play at a fairly high level to really be an insightful analytical caster like Artosis/dApollo, but Moletrap needs to work on that if he is going to solo-casting for OGN.
other than those he is just like any other casters.
His ability to talk about the game and tell what's happening in an at least semi-interesting manner is good. His analysis is terrible.
Stop trying to analyze the game and everyone will be much happier. I really do want to see moletrap succeed at OGN. Grubby is the perfect co-caster to work with him. It's only temporary, but it will do for now.
On August 30 2012 05:49 Targe wrote: I love his casting and can't see the reason for the hate of his voice but I do totally agree with this:
On August 30 2012 03:50 bigtabs wrote: I'm basing this on GOM and the recent OSL:
He needs to vastly improve his working knowledge of Starcraft 2. I feel I know more about it than he does and I've only been playing irregularly for 6 months and am a lowly silver leaguer. He's had 2 years as a professional caster. He should know a lot more than I do about the game. On that note, I think he should recieve some coaching in all the races and play them regularly. Even if his mechanics hold him in the lower leagues, he needs to understand the game at a higher level.
As soon as he grasps this he will be one of the greats in my eyes.
That's a reasonable point of view if moletrap hasn't already been casting SC2 forever now. He doesn't need to grasp the game better, he just needs to stop trying to be that guy who knows everything about the game.
It's misguided to ask casters like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit to raise their high-level knowledge of the game. These guys are not GM level players. They never will be. Consequently, they will NEVER become good analysts. Trying to shoehorn them into the "analyst" role is a recipe for disaster. The only thing worse than a caster that offers no analysis, is a caster that offers wrong analysis.
Moletrap (like Totalbiscuit) is at his best working as a color commentator. Provide an exciting play-by-play call on what's happening on-screen and on the mini-map. Don't overstep their bounds by trying to "analyze" the game. Leave that to the co-caster, who SHOULD be an analyst. The analyst should be a pro gamer with deep knowledge of the game, someone like Grubby or IdrA or Artosis.
Unfortunately, most people in these forums don't seem to understand that color commentators are necessary in this business. They all just want a bunch of analysts droning on and on about "smart stuff". And while that may sound exciting for hardcore SC2 buffs, for the casual viewers too much analysis becomes a bore. There's a good reason why football and basketball games are almost always cast by a color commentator AND an analyst.
Guys like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are terrific, exciting color commentators. They shouldn't even try "analyzing" games. Leave that to an analytic co-caster.
I think TB is a great caster and I completely agree with everything in your posts, except for the parts where it said "Moletrap", unfortunately. I just tuned in to the Korean OSL stream because I didn't feel like he was saying anything worth listening to. TB can make educated guesses about the players' intentions based on his own knowledge and from what he's gathered from their playstyle, while still leaving the more indepth stuff to the analytical caster. Moletrap's lack of insight really shows with the constant wrong calls. A good caster doesn't get hyped up about something and just go "Oh nevermind" mid-sentence because he realizes it was nothing after all. I also feel he doesn't have the voice to be a pbp caster. I lack the language skills to describe it, but I'm sure you get the idea. Not raising his voice too much like in the Jangbi v Fantasy finals has made him muchmore pleasant to listen to.
All in all, his casting isn't killing Esports, but there's much to improve on.
Oh noes, can't believe that the OP that is not the pertaining man himself started this thread. If I'm Moletrap, my heart would be hurting inside and out after reading upon some of the post. I get where some of them would come from but this is a bit too cruel and cold-blooded attempt to depreciate the man.
I don't mind him casting, he seems like a nice guy and I'm a bit surprised by all the efforts of hate people decide to put onto him. As already been said however:
- Improve the game knowledge! Although it's ok to make mistakes the "2/2 is underway for the terran, he's building the armory now for upgrades on vikings to kill the colossus faster" was just wrong (he wasn't getting 2/2 he needed the armory for it, although viking upgrades are realistic thereafter ofcourse).
That's it really improve the game knowledge, experienced SC viewers will see 90% of the tiny mistakes!
I don't really watch sc2 anymore(apart from streams sometimes) but I remember Moletrap was pretty good, sometimes not controlling his voice and occasionally interrupting his fellow co-caster, but apart from that it was really good.
He makes to much mistakes as a caster...( maby he is blind or dunno what , and its not agressive attack , he simple cant see numbers of supply , today he mistaken supply of players like 5 times. And many many mistakes like this. He dont know Sc2 pro gamers results. His voice sounds bored when he cast..and many many more. I simple dont like his casting.
One thing Moletrap can do is know his limits. That means letting the other casters get their fair share of speaking time, and not breaking the decibel barrier when he gets excited. He also tends to quit on some games too early.
On August 30 2012 06:32 pallad wrote: He makes to much mistakes as a caster...( maby he is blind or dunno what , and its not agressive attack , he simple cant see numbers of supply , today he mistaken supply of players like 5 times. And many many mistakes like this. He dont know Sc2 pro gamers results. His voice sounds bored when he cast..and many many more. I simple dont like his casting.
He had a low quality stream apparently.. Let the guy settle in. He can be entertaining believe it or not.. Miss his old bw stuff
On August 30 2012 03:50 bigtabs wrote: I feel I know more about it than he does and I've only been playing irregularly for 6 months and am a lowly silver leaguer.
Then you do not know as much as he does.
On the surface of it, that would be fair to say. Yet he says things I know not to be true, even with my limited knowledge. That's the point.
On August 30 2012 04:27 how2TL wrote:We already have a confirmed silver leaguer of all people thinking they could do a better job.
At no point did I say I could do a better job, so you can stick that strawman where the sun doesn't shine. I simply said that he makes me feel more knowledgeable than himself when he makes basic mistakes that are obvious to me, and as I'm only a silver leaguer, that simply shouldn't be happening.
I'm all for Moletraps continued improvement, as I said in my post. I offered my opinion on how that might happen. This is a place for constructive criticism. I gave it. What did you do?
On August 30 2012 05:18 cosmo.6792 wrote: It's misguided to ask casters like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit to raise their high-level knowledge of the game. These guys are not GM level players. They never will be. Consequently, they will NEVER become good analysts. Trying to shoehorn them into the "analyst" role is a recipe for disaster. The only thing worse than a caster that offers no analysis, is a caster that offers wrong analysis.
Moletrap (like Totalbiscuit) is at his best working as a color commentator. Provide an exciting play-by-play call on what's happening on-screen and on the mini-map. Don't overstep their bounds by trying to "analyze" the game. Leave that to the co-caster, who SHOULD be an analyst. The analyst should be a pro gamer with deep knowledge of the game, someone like Grubby or IdrA or Artosis.
Unfortunately, most people in these forums don't seem to understand that color commentators are necessary in this business. They all just want a bunch of analysts droning on and on about "smart stuff". And while that may sound exciting for hardcore SC2 buffs, for the casual viewers too much analysis becomes a bore. There's a good reason why football and basketball games are almost always cast by a color commentator AND an analyst.
Guys like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are terrific, exciting color commentators. They shouldn't even try "analyzing" games. Leave that to an analytic co-caster.
I agree to the point that not every Caster has to be an analytical caster, but I think Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are different. Totalbiscuit has little knowlage about the game and he knows he does. I don't watch Totalbiscuits casts very often, but I remember him asking his cocaster to explain what's going on in the game every now and then, which is great in my opinion. Totalbiscuit himself knows he doesn't have the neccessary understanding of the game, so he leaves the analyzing part to his cocaster. Moletrap on the other hand tries to analyze what's going on every now and then, which results in wrong calls way too often. There are 2 solutions to this problem: Either he steps up his game knowlage (probably not going to happen, would take a lot of time) or he flat out stops trying to analyze and instead sticks to color commentating.
That being said, I personally don't find Moletraps casting very entertaining. It's not terrible, but I would watch most casters over Moletrap. It's hard to explain why. His casting for some reason just doesn't appeal to me that much.
Okay, since this is his first cast I also put him some points of improvement regarding his casting back at GOM. (Also im Diamond, referring to How2TL's request to post league)
First of all, as many already pointed out, he lacks to much game knowledge. It seems like he isn't nearly as enthusiastic as he was in BW (Learning Builds, knowing timings, stuff like that).
Second critic point: He calls engagement wrong, is anti-enthusiastic when it is accurate or enthusiastic when it's just sum minor things, which are even pointless or nothing special. As an addition to that, his overall voice-acting during a cast becomes kinda enerving, due to the things I just listed, regardless of how he tends to "squek" when he's overenthusiastic.
His co-casting isn't really entertaining aswell (just based on his casting back at GOM (didn't listen to his bw-casting)). I remember him teaming up with Doa,Wolf and Khaldor and none of these duos were really in sync. There was just this feeling of arkwardness, comparable to 2 guys sitting in a bar and not rellay know what to talk about. Jokes didn't really work or non-gaming conversations didn't really happen (and I don't expect Tastosis-godlike interacting), so it felt more forced than anything else and not entertaining, which is the point of casting. I don't say it's all Moletrap's fault, nor any of the other 3 casters, but it's the responsibilty of both to get a good cast going.
To sum it up, I feel he isn't coming after his job responsibilites and he has to step up his on-stage interacting, which also includes his own confidence level.
Since Moletrap didn't start this thread, nor ask for this feedback, I can hardly believe that this thread is a means to improve his casting. Secondly, you're biased from both the tone of the OP, and blatantly, in words. Therefore, I assume this is an indirect attempt to get Moletrap fired by means of a demonstration of public opinion, and yet more indirectly, to get another caster to take over for him.
Though I personally dislike his casting, I find this thread extremely distasteful...
He honestly just don't know what's going on. It was clear in GSL and is even clearer now in OSL. It's like he doesn't follow the scene at all, and the only stats he has are the ones shoved in his face. YES we know there is downtime at the beginning of a game, yes we know some aren't exactly GSL Code S players, but nevertheless you have to tell us about the player, his recent matches, his history, ect ect. FILL THE GAP IT'S YOUR JOB, but not with unrelated and not funny anecdotes please. Once in a while it's fine, like on a second or third match of a BO7 but there needs to be more sustenance in general.
Then when that opening phase is over, you have to predict what will happen in the game. You keep staying stuff like 'Protoss often does a 4 gate zealot timing to apply pressure to the zerg and force him to make units.' Very true, but we're at 9 minutes and the protoss has 4 gases, talk about that instead of something he is CLEARLY NOT DOING.
Anyways, your casting is okay but it would be good or even great if you had any idea what is going on. I get you're an entertainer but you need more knowledge than a gold (or apparently silver) player. If it's bad to them imagine the large midmasters player base who hate your guts for making clearly wrong calls continuously.
MVP vs Flying 25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv' later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
Either Moletrap or the casting conditions OGN gave him (monitor 'n such) need to improve... alot.
RO 16 day 2 MVP vs Flying: Flying does some super agressive immortal sentry with pylon warping in zealots in the main and kills 25 Mvp SCVs. the director shows SCVs killed smack in the middle of the screen and Moletrap goes on saying Mvp didn't take much damage... 5, 6 maybe 7 SCVs... wtf man..
On August 30 2012 07:03 ChoDing wrote: MVP vs Flying 25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv' later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
-___- o.O crazy
Having a BW background, he probably rounds to the nearest multiple of 12.
On August 30 2012 07:03 ChoDing wrote: MVP vs Flying 25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv' later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
-___- o.O crazy
Having a BW background, he probably rounds to the nearest multiple of 12.
But the numbers are there on screen, color coded and everything, I don't understand. I mean, I get missing the occasional drop or w/e if you're obsing as well, but not seeing that. How, how does that happen?
On August 30 2012 07:03 ChoDing wrote: MVP vs Flying 25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv' later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
-___- o.O crazy
Having a BW background, he probably rounds to the nearest multiple of 12.
But the numbers are there on screen, color coded and everything, I don't understand. I mean, I get missing the occasional drop or w/e if you're obsing as well, but not seeing that. How, how does that happen?
Yeah. It's inexcusable, but probably forgivable. Moletrap's casting could probably use some work, and the technical setup they have as well, but I'll still watch it.
I would like to see him co-cast with grubby and see what comes out of it.
Honestly, I followed him from the early youtube BW casts (2009ish range) and even though he doesn't exactly have a easy to listen to voice nor a very great knowledge for the games, he compensates it with his enthusiasm. Very far from being my favourite caster, but I'm glad he managed to get into this position through hard work and persistence.
I don't want to say anything negative about moletrap but I don't think he really measures up to the top 'analysis' casters like Artosis, Apollo and Rotterdam or the very good 'color' casters like Doa, Khaldor and Total Biscuit. Then again I don't think Tasteless is particularly wonderful either and everyone seems to think he's great. Some of the same things- sounding bored, corny jokes and making wrong calls I notice Tasteless doing a lot too yet nobody ever complains about it. I guess it's all a popularity contest in the end.
I don't like Moletrap OSL casting. I've nothing against him and I didn't really mind when he was casting for GOM because he had a co caster, but alone he's really not up to the task in my opinion. He doesn't seem comfortable either, he's quite hesitating (maybe because it's hard to be confident when hundreds of people flame you on forums), says wrong things and misses other important ones, and overall doesn't seem enthusiastic and is neither an analytic or "hype" kind of caster. Artosis and tasteless are great because even if tasteless is not as knowledgeable about the game right now (at least I think), he has the m fing starcraft wikipedia with him, and their conversation is great. Same with apollo and TB, TB is awesome, and apollo makes for the analytic part. Moletrap alone just feels like, "whatever I'll do what I can", and it just sounds wrong to me. Maybe with a co caster it'll be fine, and even alone it's not enough to prevent me from watching OSL, but it would be better with a casting up to the standing of this league. Also, it seems that his conditions are not that great, he said himself that interviews translating were done by his producer who doesn't speak english well, he has brackets in korean, and a shitty screen it seems.. doesn't help either
I've only really watched him the last couple days of OSL, but I think his biggest problem is that he flat out doesn't understand what he's looking at. He doesn't seem to understand builds well, and he flat out misses things that are right in front of him (see MVP's SCV losses). I like to have games on the background while I do something else on the computer, but with his casting I don't feel like I can do that and still have a decent grasp of the overall state of the game.
1) Not enough knowledge. If random people can get to masters with a little effort, then surely someone whose JOB relates to Starcraft 2 can do better and have more understanding of the game? Even the simplest of things he either doesn't notice or takes a really long time to. Like when Jangbi accidentally used guardian shield instead of force field. He didn't comment on that until a few minutes into the REPLAY of the game. Or when Rain warps zealots into MKP's main and then focuses on an engagement in the middle, so his zealots just attack whatever's closest. Moletrap's comment is that he's targeting the sensor tower, despite the fact that it's incredibly obvious that he's not targeting anything in particular. Just SO many little things like this.
2) Talk more fluidly. Talking.... like this, uh, all the time...... is just really bad casting.
3) Do more research on the players/maps. It seems like at least once in every single matchup Moletrap doesn't know something, and flounders about until he either says that he isn't sure or his producer tells him. Despite being just a casual viewer, I constantly feel as though I know more about the subject than he does.
4) He really just can't show enthusiasm very well. Get someone else to do the player intros.
5) Not applicable right now since he's casting solo, but during the OSL finals he CONSTANTLY talked over his co-casters, ignored them, went on and on himself without giving anyone else a chance to speak, etc. We don't need to hear you talking all the time.
On August 30 2012 07:03 ChoDing wrote: MVP vs Flying 25 scv got killed and he said 'oh mvp is still in the game, since he only lost 6-7 scv' later on that game, 47 scv got killed and he said '48'
It's misguided to ask casters like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit to raise their high-level knowledge of the game. These guys are not GM level players. They never will be. Consequently, they will NEVER become good analysts. Trying to shoehorn them into the "analyst" role is a recipe for disaster. The only thing worse than a caster that offers no analysis, is a caster that offers wrong analysis.
Moletrap (like Totalbiscuit) is at his best working as a color commentator. Provide an exciting play-by-play call on what's happening on-screen and on the mini-map. Don't overstep their bounds by trying to "analyze" the game. Leave that to the co-caster, who SHOULD be an analyst. The analyst should be a pro gamer with deep knowledge of the game, someone like Grubby or IdrA or Artosis.
Unfortunately, most people in these forums don't seem to understand that color commentators are necessary in this business. They all just want a bunch of analysts droning on and on about "smart stuff". And while that may sound exciting for hardcore SC2 buffs, for the casual viewers too much analysis becomes a bore. There's a good reason why football and basketball games are almost always cast by a color commentator AND an analyst.
Guys like Moletrap and Totalbiscuit are terrific, exciting color commentators. They shouldn't even try "analyzing" games. Leave that to an analytic co-caster.
I think TB is a great caster and I completely agree with everything in your posts, except for the parts where it said "Moletrap", unfortunately. I just tuned in to the Korean OSL stream because I didn't feel like he was saying anything worth listening to. TB can make educated guesses about the players' intentions based on his own knowledge and from what he's gathered from their playstyle, while still leaving the more indepth stuff to the analytical caster. Moletrap's lack of insight really shows with the constant wrong calls. A good caster doesn't get hyped up about something and just go "Oh nevermind" mid-sentence because he realizes it was nothing after all. I also feel he doesn't have the voice to be a pbp caster. I lack the language skills to describe it, but I'm sure you get the idea. Not raising his voice too much like in the Jangbi v Fantasy finals has made him muchmore pleasant to listen to.
All in all, his casting isn't killing Esports, but there's much to improve on.
Exactly! Decided to watch the vods just to see PartinG play and right off the bat I was kind of confused by his casting game knowledge wise and player wise.... really disappointing that no recognition was given to PartinG's placing in WCS korea... Mistaking a tech lab for a reactor (production tab is there for a reason..) Factory and more gas go down and no notice by him.. Mistakes on timing pushes (stim/combat shield timing, proper timings for upgrades being out) Spewing nonsense about some random build that he could be going for and taking it back as if no on heard it (really would confuse those people with not alot of starcraft knowledge) Not calling out drops at all (observer is even doing his job pointing them out) Terrible knowledge with reactions to certain builds ("its good to pre emptively build vikings before colossi so you can keep up with their numbers" no thats just wasting supply and taking up space for medivacs) Saying the wrong things about forcefields going out ("Oh a few units get caught in 2 forcefields" "parting throwing out forcefields for positioning and to show the threat of forcefields" no he baited them every single time in the open they were baited) No comment about archons at all in the end battle (he feedbacked made archons and it helped with the aoe dmg to the bio units and helped tank dmg)
This being the first time I've heard him cast I really didnt enjoy listening to his because of what was stated above and some of the complaints of others. Lack of game knowledge and metagame and not looking at the production tab (aka guessing what a structure or addon is or even missing structures going down.) really hurts a cast.
OSL also need the observer to improve aswell.. I can see the units dying dont need the units tab up during a fight I would like to see if they're building anything else like units or structures..
On August 30 2012 07:06 Cleavin wrote: Either Moletrap or the casting conditions OGN gave him (monitor 'n such) need to improve... alot.
RO 16 day 2 MVP vs Flying: Flying does some super agressive immortal sentry with pylon warping in zealots in the main and kills 25 Mvp SCVs. the director shows SCVs killed smack in the middle of the screen and Moletrap goes on saying Mvp didn't take much damage... 5, 6 maybe 7 SCVs... wtf man..
EDIT: damn guess i'm #2 with this one.
OSL honestly needs a second observer to be able to do both languages you cant run 2 differents sets of casters off of 1 observer. It's why GOM can do so. They have heavenlydom doing the observing for the koreans and they have ST_Legend obsing the english cast so if they ask for something he can show them what tab or stats they want to see while the game is going instead of having to guess and not having useless tabs (units while a fights going instead of production. Good to see units but i can see them dying on the screen maybe after the battle i'd like to see the numbers and units killed.) Overall the whole english broadcast needs work imo
Wasn't a fan of mole trap before, still not a fan after osl. Unfortunately my main concern is his voice, which can't be changed. Would be interested in watching Doa/Grubby
I said this before in another thread but interesting fact - Moletrap rarely interrupted anyone (if he did, he asked first if it was okay) and was more knowledgeable in BW than in SC2.
Now, some may not like Moletrap even in BW but the majority liked him and was at least fine with him (better in co casts because he did well).
I guess Moletrap isn't as interested in SC2 as in BW which is a bit disappointing. I want Moletrap to succeed. I do hope he tries to get into SC2 more to become a better caster.
He has the potential as seen in BW (and he did fine in BW).
Maybe one reason is that all of Moletrap's old co casters from BW are gone, so he's in new territory with new people (maybe uncomfortable for him). Though, I don't really know. I do wish things go well for him in the future and that he can improve so that we can see BW Moletrap except in SC2 (maybe more better too).
Also here's Moletrap and Klazart casting that infamous MSL Flash vs Jaedong Finals:
(Also Moletrap's thought on Jaedong given the win at around 24 minutes and 30 seconds. Basically he understands and makes the point it would have been unfair to Jaedong too if they did a rematch [in any case, it's a lose lose all around as it's hard to make the right calls].)
As you can see in the video (they start talking about the game instead of the players a minute in), Moletrap is much better in BW than in SC2 (especially with co casting).
Again, I hope somehow the old BW Moletrap returns (someone get Moletrap and Tasteless together so they can restore their passion!!!11).
I don't want to sound like I'm selling the guy short, but some people have the charisma and personalities to be presenters/commentators. And some people just don't. Even if he were to significantly improve his game knowledge, the underlying tones and awkwardness in his commentary would still make it very difficult for me to listen. I really try to appreciate the varying styles and personalities that are out there, but not everyone was meant to be a radio host or a news reader. The same goes for commentators. No-one can challenge his passion though - he has my respect in that regard.
On August 30 2012 09:20 Dox wrote: I don't want to sound like I'm selling the guy short, but some people have the charisma and personalities to be presenters/commentators. And some people just don't. Even if he were to significantly improve his game knowledge, the underlying tones and awkwardness in his commentary would still make it very difficult for me to listen. I really try to appreciate the varying styles and personalities that are out there, but not everyone was meant to be a radio host or a news reader. The same goes for commentators. No-one can challenge his passion though - he has my respect in that regard.
i have no problem with his charisma, its his lack of knowledge that turns me off.
so much of what he doesn't know can be fixed by just playing the damn game
Keep in mind guys, moletrap also has to cast LoL for OGN as well, which no other caster has had to do on a consistent basis(although one guy casted multiple game titles at the WCG USA finals I worked at in 08). That being said I've always been a fan of his since his first video, his commentaries got me into the pro SC scene and I've also met him in real life at the forementioned WCG event and he's a cool guy. Also unlike Tastosis, moletrap has never been a high level SC player to my knowledge. I imagine the old moletrap would get even more flak than now since he swore a lot back in his starting days.
Very hypercritical for people to hate on Moletrap but love Tasteless, when they both are both pretty much the same type of caster and have the same knowledge of the game.
On August 30 2012 09:32 RainmanMP wrote: Keep in mind guys, moletrap also has to cast LoL for OGN as well, which no other caster has had to do on a consistent basis(although one guy casted multiple game titles at the WCG USA finals I worked at in 08). That being said I've always been a fan of his since his first video, his commentaries got me into the pro SC scene and I've also met him in real life at the forementioned WCG event and he's a cool guy. Also unlike Tastosis, moletrap has never been a high level SC player to my knowledge. I imagine the old moletrap would get even more flak than now since he swore a lot back in his starting days.
He stopped swearing when people told him to stop + He was just commentating for youtube rather than doing it professionally (which means he's allowed to swear + we all know how youtube personalities wear).
As for his game knowledge. Moletrap (like *Tasteless) was actually knowledgeable of BW (he knew a lot of the builds and the players and usually knew what they usually did).
*A lot of people like Tasteless but a common criticism of Tasteless today is that he doesn't know as much about SC2 as he did in BW (cue jokes about Tasteless losing his passion).
Yes, Moletrap didn't play high level but he knew the game really well (much better than SC2).
I don't know what exactly happened but Moletrap just isn't the same in SC2.
Few people dislike Moletrap's BW commentaries. The few that did were those minority that hated on anyone (if I link to the old moletrap/diggity commentary thread, you can see a poster hating on Tasteless).
The sad part is that most people don't know that and start flaming him and not giving him a chance.
If we can somehow get the old BW Moletrap back, things will be much better.
See my last post for a video of Moletrap and Klazart casting together.
I used to be annoyed by the tone of Moletraps voice or some superficial garbage like that until i grew up and started to really look at caster for who he really is. In my eyes Moletrap is brutally honest which is if not the best qualily a human being can have. Sure he made bad judgement calls at the last aired OSL and i kind of felt he was being pressured to analyze the game when he might need more time to familiarize himself with the games current trends. In time he will be kicking ass and taking names so keep on trucking Moletrap.
ps, the 80s vest getup with that floating desk is so bad its good, i love it.
moletrap needs to observe the game much better. he misses key points in the game, that me - the end user, can even spot out /notice with relative ease. yelling doesnt help either to hype up a battle - most of the times its just painful with in-ear headsets on.
He needs to really work on his sc2 knowledge... his play by play is fine and he has good enthusiasm... hopefully with grubby at his side the commentary will be better analytically..
Also, if he is the one who did the obsing that also needs to improve as well
I think Moletrap needs to get the game more, heck anyone can do what moletrap is currently doing. i.e stating the blatantly obvious. And there are plenty of people that have nicer voices/ not saying his voice is bad or anything.
What he needs is some game knowledge, maybe he should try get into diamond at least. People used to hate on Husky for having bad game knowledge but he at least made it into diamond.
I think the reason he is not that good of a caster is because he lacks game knowledge, and there is more casters such as Dao and Wolf who share this for a certain part in my opinion. Ofcourse I don't know how they practice their casting if they do, but I think that's important. They should watch replays very often at home just analysing by themselves and try to play the game more serious and get higher league placements, to understand the game as they play themselves.
You can see casters like Day[9], Artosis, Tasteless and such have played games on a high competitive level themselves, and in combination with decent sound they are very entertaining.
From the day that Moletrap was casting Code A I thought he lacked game knowledge and was hoping he would improve that, I haven't seen that yet. So I hope he does, because he is a great guy with a hearth for eSports, like we all have here.
On August 30 2012 09:32 RainmanMP wrote: Keep in mind guys, moletrap also has to cast LoL for OGN as well, which no other caster has had to do on a consistent basis(although one guy casted multiple game titles at the WCG USA finals I worked at in 08). That being said I've always been a fan of his since his first video, his commentaries got me into the pro SC scene and I've also met him in real life at the forementioned WCG event and he's a cool guy. Also unlike Tastosis, moletrap has never been a high level SC player to my knowledge. I imagine the old moletrap would get even more flak than now since he swore a lot back in his starting days.
He stopped swearing when people told him to stop + He was just commentating for youtube rather than doing it professionally (which means he's allowed to swear + we all know how youtube personalities wear).
As for his game knowledge. Moletrap (like *Tasteless) was actually knowledgeable of BW (he knew a lot of the builds and the players and usually knew what they usually did).
*A lot of people like Tasteless but a common criticism of Tasteless today is that he doesn't know as much about SC2 as he did in BW (cue jokes about Tasteless losing his passion).
Yes, Moletrap didn't play high level but he knew the game really well (much better than SC2).
I don't know what exactly happened but Moletrap just isn't the same in SC2.
Few people dislike Moletrap's BW commentaries. The few that did were those minority that hated on anyone (if I link to the old moletrap/diggity commentary thread, you can see a poster hating on Tasteless).
The sad part is that most people don't know that and start flaming him and not giving him a chance.
If we can somehow get the old BW Moletrap back, things will be much better.
See my last post for a video of Moletrap and Klazart casting together.
More people need to be like you and give good feedback like that. Diggity does LoL a ton now(streams every night) and even if he did SC2 I'm sure he has no desire to do what moletrap does even though they were good together. I don't watch GSL since I don't wanna pay for it so I can't give any opinions on Tasteless. Met Artosis as well and that guy is awesome. Maybe the reason moletrap was better back then was because tbh, there weren't that many people doing commentary and there was no livestreaming at all, so commentary was a lot more I guess required and taught you a lot. And there was no money involved(no ads on YouTube) either, just pure fun. I used to cast BW games way back when but stopped due to a ton of flak about my half a lisp and I basically took a couple year hiatus from actively following and watching SC games after the match fixing scandal hit. I also think he didn't get as much hate back then because there weren't really any other consistent commentators besides Moletrap, Diggity and Klazart. Tasteless didn't really start doing it till the original BW GSL other than guest casting at foreign events like WCG.
This may sound overly particular but I remember a time when IMMvp was in Code A and he was facing SlayerS_Mia, and Doa was saying "well hey, Mia is on slayers ect... he is probably pretty good" and Moletrap had this super sarcastic tone and just was basically like theres NO way in hell hes gunna win. As a slayers fan and GSL viewer I found this Anti-Hype incredibly annoying.
I remember seeing his brood war stuff and didn't mind it at the time, but now I really dislike him. I don't like his contenet and even his voice. Its nothing personal I just dont think hes meant for the role (ie. I don't think he would have never gotten anywhere in professional sports casting).
I feel its getting better with these threads, but I have always felt that it is hard to critisize someone (especially casters) in esports because you automatically come off as "flamming". I think something like OSL/GSL needs a very universally accepted caster, not someone that 17% (from OP) really enjoy.
Overall I feel we need tougher standards for casting not just networking (atleast in the infancy of SCII). I think he was sort of in the right place at the right time. I do not mean this just personally but based off of the staggering results of his polls of the past. Someone needs to start taking these seriously because I garuntee he has hurt GSL/OSL more than helped.
PS. this is NOTHING personal MT, Im not saying you don't have a career in esports and I know you love SC
ugh why is he still casting. he clearly has no love for anything but broodwar. hes not even entertaining or funny to help fill his gaps of knowledge and passion. maybe with the right co caster and a complete change in attitude I could deal with him. he has been manageing his voice alot better since he moved to ogn. but listening to him squeal stupid, wrong commentary over his co-casters at gom left a very bad taste in my mouth.
His casting so far has been a lower standard than what I'm used to from him. Though its entirely understandable considering he is solo casting. I figure it will improve when Grubby arrives.
On August 30 2012 09:32 RainmanMP wrote: Keep in mind guys, moletrap also has to cast LoL for OGN as well, which no other caster has had to do on a consistent basis(although one guy casted multiple game titles at the WCG USA finals I worked at in 08). That being said I've always been a fan of his since his first video, his commentaries got me into the pro SC scene and I've also met him in real life at the forementioned WCG event and he's a cool guy. Also unlike Tastosis, moletrap has never been a high level SC player to my knowledge. I imagine the old moletrap would get even more flak than now since he swore a lot back in his starting days.
He stopped swearing when people told him to stop + He was just commentating for youtube rather than doing it professionally (which means he's allowed to swear + we all know how youtube personalities wear).
As for his game knowledge. Moletrap (like *Tasteless) was actually knowledgeable of BW (he knew a lot of the builds and the players and usually knew what they usually did).
*A lot of people like Tasteless but a common criticism of Tasteless today is that he doesn't know as much about SC2 as he did in BW (cue jokes about Tasteless losing his passion).
Yes, Moletrap didn't play high level but he knew the game really well (much better than SC2).
I don't know what exactly happened but Moletrap just isn't the same in SC2.
Few people dislike Moletrap's BW commentaries. The few that did were those minority that hated on anyone (if I link to the old moletrap/diggity commentary thread, you can see a poster hating on Tasteless).
The sad part is that most people don't know that and start flaming him and not giving him a chance.
If we can somehow get the old BW Moletrap back, things will be much better.
See my last post for a video of Moletrap and Klazart casting together.
More people need to be like you and give good feedback like that. Diggity does LoL a ton now(streams every night) and even if he did SC2 I'm sure he has no desire to do what moletrap does even though they were good together. I don't watch GSL since I don't wanna pay for it so I can't give any opinions on Tasteless. Met Artosis as well and that guy is awesome. Maybe the reason moletrap was better back then was because tbh, there weren't that many people doing commentary and there was no livestreaming at all, so commentary was a lot more I guess required and taught you a lot. And there was no money involved(no ads on YouTube) either, just pure fun. I used to cast BW games way back when but stopped due to a ton of flak about my half a lisp and I basically took a couple year hiatus from actively following and watching SC games after the match fixing scandal hit. I also think he didn't get as much hate back then because there weren't really any other consistent commentators besides Moletrap, Diggity and Klazart. Tasteless didn't really start doing it till the original BW GSL other than guest casting at foreign events like WCG.
Thanks for the reply .
Well, you're right he probably did better because there was no pressure and was fun. I disagree with him being less hated back then because there weren't many other casters. The main reason was that he was actually really good back then. If you compare him back then to him today, it's much different. If you ever link to Moletrap or get people to watch them, few people hated him but yet liked his video.
Also I noticed people are starting to bandwagon and just accumulate negativity towards Moletrap. For example, I remember someone mishearing Moletrap say something negative regarding Flash and then posting it as (assumingly) an attempt to get more people to hate on him. (This happens often actually. Did Moletrap say just say <insert something negative here> when in fact he didn't.)
Moletrap probably knows Flash better than most people (at least the SC2 side of the community) here. He's a veteran of the SC community and knows a ton about BW.
You can criticism (constructively) him but take note he has the potential to be really good (see his casting in BW).
Honestly, I wonder how well Moletrap knows about this. He has what it takes to be a professional caster but I'm not sure what's going on exactly. Pressure from casting on TV and professionally? Lack of old fellow co casters from times of old? Lost of passion for game and SC2?
Again, the video I posted of Moletrap and Klazart, Moletrap was spot on. Mentioning and memorizing the builds Flash and Jaedong used. Mentioning how Jaedong shouldn't have did the guardian strategy against Flash because he should have seen the game where other Zergs used it and failed. Finally, his analysis on giving Jaedong the win due to the power outage mid game. He says that it is unfair to Flash since he still had a chance but if they rematched, it would probably be more unfair to Jaedong, especially if in the rematch Jaedong lost because he had an advantage (see Parting vs MKP disconnect debate for example). Basically, Moletrap was gosu at BW commentary.
In SC2, he rarely does it anymore. He's much worse in SC2 than in BW and I do hope he somehow regains his passion (yeah, it's a bit cheesy but it's probably true and the reason why he's not doing so well in SC2) for commentating SC.
On August 30 2012 09:32 RainmanMP wrote: Keep in mind guys, moletrap also has to cast LoL for OGN as well, which no other caster has had to do on a consistent basis(although one guy casted multiple game titles at the WCG USA finals I worked at in 08). That being said I've always been a fan of his since his first video, his commentaries got me into the pro SC scene and I've also met him in real life at the forementioned WCG event and he's a cool guy. Also unlike Tastosis, moletrap has never been a high level SC player to my knowledge. I imagine the old moletrap would get even more flak than now since he swore a lot back in his starting days.
He stopped swearing when people told him to stop + He was just commentating for youtube rather than doing it professionally (which means he's allowed to swear + we all know how youtube personalities wear).
As for his game knowledge. Moletrap (like *Tasteless) was actually knowledgeable of BW (he knew a lot of the builds and the players and usually knew what they usually did).
*A lot of people like Tasteless but a common criticism of Tasteless today is that he doesn't know as much about SC2 as he did in BW (cue jokes about Tasteless losing his passion).
Yes, Moletrap didn't play high level but he knew the game really well (much better than SC2).
I don't know what exactly happened but Moletrap just isn't the same in SC2.
Few people dislike Moletrap's BW commentaries. The few that did were those minority that hated on anyone (if I link to the old moletrap/diggity commentary thread, you can see a poster hating on Tasteless).
The sad part is that most people don't know that and start flaming him and not giving him a chance.
If we can somehow get the old BW Moletrap back, things will be much better.
See my last post for a video of Moletrap and Klazart casting together.
More people need to be like you and give good feedback like that. Diggity does LoL a ton now(streams every night) and even if he did SC2 I'm sure he has no desire to do what moletrap does even though they were good together. I don't watch GSL since I don't wanna pay for it so I can't give any opinions on Tasteless. Met Artosis as well and that guy is awesome. Maybe the reason moletrap was better back then was because tbh, there weren't that many people doing commentary and there was no livestreaming at all, so commentary was a lot more I guess required and taught you a lot. And there was no money involved(no ads on YouTube) either, just pure fun. I used to cast BW games way back when but stopped due to a ton of flak about my half a lisp and I basically took a couple year hiatus from actively following and watching SC games after the match fixing scandal hit. I also think he didn't get as much hate back then because there weren't really any other consistent commentators besides Moletrap, Diggity and Klazart. Tasteless didn't really start doing it till the original BW GSL other than guest casting at foreign events like WCG.
Thanks for the reply .
Well, you're right he probably did better because there was no pressure and was fun. I disagree with him being less hated back then because there weren't many other casters. The main reason was that he was actually really good back then. If you compare him back then to him today, it's much different. If you ever link to Moletrap or get people to watch them, few people hated him but yet liked his video.
Also I noticed people are starting to bandwagon and just accumulate negativity towards Moletrap. For example, I remember someone mishearing Moletrap say something negative regarding Flash and then posting it as (assumingly) an attempt to get more people to hate on him. (This happens often actually. Did Moletrap say just say <insert something negative here> when in fact he didn't.)
Moletrap probably knows Flash better than most people (at least the SC2 side of the community) here. He's a veteran of the SC community and knows a ton about BW.
You can criticism (constructively) him but take note he has the potential to be really good (see his casting in BW).
Honestly, I wonder how well Moletrap knows about this. He has what it takes to be a professional caster but I'm not sure what's going on exactly. Pressure from casting on TV and professionally? Lack of old fellow co casters from times of old? Lost of passion for game and SC2?
Again, the video I posted of Moletrap and Klazart, Moletrap was spot on. Mentioning and memorizing the builds Flash and Jaedong used. Mentioning how Jaedong shouldn't have did the guardian strategy against Flash because he should have seen the game where other Zergs used it and failed. Basically owning it up in terms of BW commentating.
In SC2, he rarely does it anymore. He's much worse in SC2 than in BW and I do hope he somehow regains his passion (yeah, it's a bit cheesy but it's probably true and the reason why he's not doing so well in SC2) for commentating SC.
Good points indeed my friend. One HUGE difference was that BW was basically limited to one scene back then and you only had to tune into PL/OSL/MSL to get coverage. Now you can watch high level SC2 24/7 for the rest of your life with the plethora of prestigious leagues out there(MLG,WCS,GSL,OSL,IPL,NASL etc). Add to that all of the daily stuff going on with some organizations and the fact that there's daily stuff going on for a little prize money. And there are buttfucktonloads of livestreams going on thru twitch. I remember back in the BW days when the calendar would have empty days, now the calendar is gifuckingantic. Basically just trying to say that the SC2 scene is waaaaaaay bigger than the BW scene was back in the day so it's a lot harder to keep track of players and whats going on with the metagame.
he NEEDS a coactor normaly i REALLY was ok with him, but today there is the pic of 25 scv went down for mvp and he says 4-5 times "oh only 5-7 scv down jaeh " and then 20 minutes later sees the picture of 30 scv went down and goes crazy how much the eco harrass few seconds ago brought ...such mistakes would be EASILY fixed with a co caster and its not osl fault DoA got sick hardcore ... i am sure with a GOOD caster like DoA on his side, moletrap will do fine again. in gsl with cocaster he always was ok (its just hes no stand alone caster guy)
On August 30 2012 14:05 CoR wrote: he NEEDS a coactor normaly i REALLY was ok with him, but today there is the pic of 25 scv went down for mvp and he says 4-5 times "oh only 5-7 scv down jaeh " and then 20 minutes later sees the picture of 30 scv went down and goes crazy how much the eco harrass few seconds ago brought ...such mistakes would be EASILY fixed with a co caster and its not osl fault DoA got sick hardcore ... i am sure with a GOOD caster like DoA on his side, moletrap will do fine again. in gsl with cocaster he always was ok (its just hes no stand alone caster guy)
Just watched that game. Moletrap: "circa 5-6 scvs" Units lost tab: 25 workers lost -.-
I don't think a co-caster would have helped, he just needs to pay better attention
The one thing I hope he really improves is his attention to detail and his memory. Good lord the number of times he forgot something and the amount of times he missed out a important detail is just horrible.
Well two, but one can argue all he really needs is to pay attention and things would naturally stick in place. It seems more like he is not genuinely into the games at all apart from the outburst you get which really doesn't help if your build up prior to the outburst is not conducted well enough.
On August 30 2012 03:32 nmetasch wrote: It appears clear that he will be casting for OGN long term, so rather than flame him post after post, why don't we attempt to make a constructive criticism thread? When I searched TL for a Moletrap feedback thread, I was astonished that there wasn't one. Maybe if there was one, his casting would have improved much more a long time ago.
Because he didn't make one, so why would you make one for him?
This topic won't generate any proper feedback, it will just be an outlet for the people that don't like him.
My main complaint with Moletrap would be his tendacy to interupt his co-caster, this was the case when he casted GSL atleast never got to see him and DOA do OSL only saw him this last week flying solo. Seemed a bit better than i remebered though.
On August 30 2012 09:32 RainmanMP wrote: Keep in mind guys, moletrap also has to cast LoL for OGN as well, which no other caster has had to do on a consistent basis(although one guy casted multiple game titles at the WCG USA finals I worked at in 08). That being said I've always been a fan of his since his first video, his commentaries got me into the pro SC scene and I've also met him in real life at the forementioned WCG event and he's a cool guy. Also unlike Tastosis, moletrap has never been a high level SC player to my knowledge. I imagine the old moletrap would get even more flak than now since he swore a lot back in his starting days.
He stopped swearing when people told him to stop + He was just commentating for youtube rather than doing it professionally (which means he's allowed to swear + we all know how youtube personalities wear).
As for his game knowledge. Moletrap (like *Tasteless) was actually knowledgeable of BW (he knew a lot of the builds and the players and usually knew what they usually did).
*A lot of people like Tasteless but a common criticism of Tasteless today is that he doesn't know as much about SC2 as he did in BW (cue jokes about Tasteless losing his passion).
Yes, Moletrap didn't play high level but he knew the game really well (much better than SC2).
I don't know what exactly happened but Moletrap just isn't the same in SC2.
Few people dislike Moletrap's BW commentaries. The few that did were those minority that hated on anyone (if I link to the old moletrap/diggity commentary thread, you can see a poster hating on Tasteless).
The sad part is that most people don't know that and start flaming him and not giving him a chance.
If we can somehow get the old BW Moletrap back, things will be much better.
See my last post for a video of Moletrap and Klazart casting together.
More people need to be like you and give good feedback like that. Diggity does LoL a ton now(streams every night) and even if he did SC2 I'm sure he has no desire to do what moletrap does even though they were good together. I don't watch GSL since I don't wanna pay for it so I can't give any opinions on Tasteless. Met Artosis as well and that guy is awesome. Maybe the reason moletrap was better back then was because tbh, there weren't that many people doing commentary and there was no livestreaming at all, so commentary was a lot more I guess required and taught you a lot. And there was no money involved(no ads on YouTube) either, just pure fun. I used to cast BW games way back when but stopped due to a ton of flak about my half a lisp and I basically took a couple year hiatus from actively following and watching SC games after the match fixing scandal hit. I also think he didn't get as much hate back then because there weren't really any other consistent commentators besides Moletrap, Diggity and Klazart. Tasteless didn't really start doing it till the original BW GSL other than guest casting at foreign events like WCG.
Thanks for the reply .
Well, you're right he probably did better because there was no pressure and was fun. I disagree with him being less hated back then because there weren't many other casters. The main reason was that he was actually really good back then. If you compare him back then to him today, it's much different. If you ever link to Moletrap or get people to watch them, few people hated him but yet liked his video.
Also I noticed people are starting to bandwagon and just accumulate negativity towards Moletrap. For example, I remember someone mishearing Moletrap say something negative regarding Flash and then posting it as (assumingly) an attempt to get more people to hate on him. (This happens often actually. Did Moletrap say just say <insert something negative here> when in fact he didn't.)
Moletrap probably knows Flash better than most people (at least the SC2 side of the community) here. He's a veteran of the SC community and knows a ton about BW.
You can criticism (constructively) him but take note he has the potential to be really good (see his casting in BW).
Honestly, I wonder how well Moletrap knows about this. He has what it takes to be a professional caster but I'm not sure what's going on exactly. Pressure from casting on TV and professionally? Lack of old fellow co casters from times of old? Lost of passion for game and SC2?
Again, the video I posted of Moletrap and Klazart, Moletrap was spot on. Mentioning and memorizing the builds Flash and Jaedong used. Mentioning how Jaedong shouldn't have did the guardian strategy against Flash because he should have seen the game where other Zergs used it and failed. Basically owning it up in terms of BW commentating.
In SC2, he rarely does it anymore. He's much worse in SC2 than in BW and I do hope he somehow regains his passion (yeah, it's a bit cheesy but it's probably true and the reason why he's not doing so well in SC2) for commentating SC.
Good points indeed my friend. One HUGE difference was that BW was basically limited to one scene back then and you only had to tune into PL/OSL/MSL to get coverage. Now you can watch high level SC2 24/7 for the rest of your life with the plethora of prestigious leagues out there(MLG,WCS,GSL,OSL,IPL,NASL etc). Add to that all of the daily stuff going on with some organizations and the fact that there's daily stuff going on for a little prize money. And there are buttfucktonloads of livestreams going on thru twitch. I remember back in the BW days when the calendar would have empty days, now the calendar is gifuckingantic. Basically just trying to say that the SC2 scene is waaaaaaay bigger than the BW scene was back in the day so it's a lot harder to keep track of players and whats going on with the metagame.
You don't need to watch every game of every tournament to keep up with the metagame, nor is anyone really expecting him to be on the absolute cutting edge of every recent trend. He just has to have SOME knowledge of what's going on in the games, pay attention, and do some research beforehand on the players/maps. I mean, it's just basic stuff.
This thread is just a rehash of the same stuff people have been saying forever. If you gather all the constructive posts people have said in various threads on Gom, TL, Reddit for moletrap, its enough to fill 100+ pages.
Does Moletrap even care, or does think of everyone as ragers/trolls/haters/whatever. The only thing I can advice is to actually read the criticism and improve upon it.
with a co-caster he used to criticize the players and was way to harsh on them. Same problem that khaldor used to have a lot and even wolf sometimes. Solo he just seems to miss a lot of stuff. But well what do you expect from him, he has to cast LoL for ogn
I don't like his casting at all because he makes a LOT of mistakes during casting (he said something like 'great storms' and a minute later he is asking himself does the player has storm reasearch done...). He did a lot of mistakes in the past and I think he hasn't improved too much (he doesn't scream that much tho). He also gives no insight in the strategy, he just tells us what is going on the screen (and often is wrong, circa 7 scvs) and tells stupid no funny jokes (2 units talking to each other about sth). He had a lot of time to improve but he still is just a BAD caster. He is a nice guy probably but he just shouldn't cast sc2 at that level of play.
On August 30 2012 20:42 Zandar wrote: All those haters should give the guy a break. He's just spent a lot of time casting another game, LoL, of course he has to get into sc2 a bit again.
And then he had to cast solo, from a screen he had no control over, and people immediately jump if he misses an armory.
I do agree though that Moletrap should focus more on the Tasteless role, and with Grubby next to him that's a great chance to do that.
tastosis also cast form a screen they don't have control so they can focus more on what they say
he just need to actually play the game so that he could give us a better analysis of the game , i am fine with his casting but he just say whats happening with no analysis whatsoever , is kinda irritating if he keep repeating the same thing like oh there is 6 medivac on the field with stim etc. WE WANT ANALYSIS. If not i rather hear korean commentator because whatever they say hypes me.
I think he was always going to lose out in the situation he is in solo casting (clearly not his fault) its clear he has no control over what he is seeing watching with no control over the screen and also from what he said its not even a clear screen he is watching on since he is unable to read the supply without looking over at the next screen.
If it is how it seems no control having to view on a poor screen while solo casting with no one to pick up on stuff you missed then he is doing a pretty good job tbh
I just hope that when grubby gets there he point blank refuses to work in those condtions and they make changes.
other than that I think most peoples issue are down to personallity and well thats a personal preffrance thing
On August 30 2012 20:42 Zandar wrote: All those haters should give the guy a break. He's just spent a lot of time casting another game, LoL, of course he has to get into sc2 a bit again.
And then he had to cast solo, from a screen he had no control over, and people immediately jump if he misses an armory.
I do agree though that Moletrap should focus more on the Tasteless role, and with Grubby next to him that's a great chance to do that.
Did he not know when he signed with OGN that he would do OSL ? If he really only wanted to do LoL then i agree, somehow i doubt he did not know he would be casting OSL and in that case your excuse makes no sense at all.
The reason why a lot of people didn't like moletrap, TotalBiscuit or djWHEAT casting before was their lack of sc2 knowledge / mistakes while casting. Obviously all of them are play-by-play casters and don't require as much knowledge as Artosis/day[9]/Apollo, it still was noticable that they needed some improvement. It feels like the latter two have improved quite a lot in that regard, while there isn't any noticable improvement in moletrap's knowledge.
I don't know if moletrap was nervous, or if he was distracted, or overwhelmed with responsibility, or if he's just not good at casting; but he didn't seemed focused or even happy to be where he was. Listening to the cast made me feel uncomfortable because moletrap never made the games sound epic and there wasn't a good flow... it was more like he was just struggling to get by. Lots of recycled caster phrases, pretty weak analysis, his excitement when present didn't seem genuine. He didn't contribute anything new that I haven't heard a thousand times in other casts. Again, like his mind was elsewhere and he was repeating stuff just to get by.
Also, I don't know if this is true, but I have read in many forum posts that moletrap is only in gold league and that is not really acceptable for someone who is supposed to be analyzing the best players in the world live. I think maybe getting some coaching from one of the pros and playing more would help him more than anything. It would give him more to talk about when the time came to cast.
On August 30 2012 09:37 Highways wrote: I don't mind him.
Very hypercritical for people to hate on Moletrap but love Tasteless, when they both are both pretty much the same type of caster and have the same knowledge of the game.
Except Tasteless enjoys himself, gets excited, has better crowd charisma or something, and makes me feel like I'm having a good time too. His personality adds hype. He's really good at that.
im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
You can queue upgrades...
you obviously cant
You don't play StarCraft II too often, do you? You can queue upgrades in this game, for instance in an Engineering Bay, Forge or Evolution Chamber.
Back on topic: I'm not too fond of Moletrap, as I sometimes feel like he's not that interested in what is going on. I normally don't mind the occasional "um..", but that happens quite a bit when I've listened to Moletrap cast, and it kind of irritates me. I'd prefer if he cuts those out, and instead waits a bit. Then again, it can be hard to find something to say while solo-casting a lot, but I think the arrival of Grubby will improve this.
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
You can queue upgrades...
you obviously cant
You don't play StarCraft II too often, do you? You can queue upgrades in this game, for instance in an Engineering Bay, Forge or Evolution Chamber.
Back on topic: I'm not too fond of Moletrap, as I sometimes feel like he's not that interested in what is going on. I normally don't mind the occasional "um..", but that happens quite a bit when I've listened to Moletrap cast, and it kind of irritates me. I'd prefer if he cuts those out, and instead waits a bit. Then again, it can be hard to find something to say while solo-casting a lot, but I think the arrival of Grubby will improve this.
You can queue non sequential upgrades, can't have +1 weapons researching and +2 weapons queued. But yeah, with so many more informed and competent potential casters out there I'm not sure how moletrap is still relevent in the scene. Back when english commentary was limited to youtube heros and it was one of the only ways for new players to be introduced to the competitive scene he did sc a great service. Now he needs to either step it the fuck up or fade away.
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
You can queue upgrades...
you obviously cant
You don't play StarCraft II too often, do you? You can queue upgrades in this game, for instance in an Engineering Bay, Forge or Evolution Chamber.
Back on topic: I'm not too fond of Moletrap, as I sometimes feel like he's not that interested in what is going on. I normally don't mind the occasional "um..", but that happens quite a bit when I've listened to Moletrap cast, and it kind of irritates me. I'd prefer if he cuts those out, and instead waits a bit. Then again, it can be hard to find something to say while solo-casting a lot, but I think the arrival of Grubby will improve this.
You can queue non sequential upgrades, can't have +1 weapons researching and +2 weapons queued. But yeah, with so many more informed and competent potential casters out there I'm not sure how moletrap is still relevent in the scene. Back when english commentary was limited to youtube heros and it was one of the only ways for new players to be introduced to the competitive scene he did sc a great service. Now he needs to either step it the fuck up or fade away.
Yes you can, you just can't queue them in the same building. 2 evo can have +2 and +2 queued while +1 +1 still on the way.
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
You can queue upgrades...
you obviously cant
You don't play StarCraft II too often, do you? You can queue upgrades in this game, for instance in an Engineering Bay, Forge or Evolution Chamber.
Back on topic: I'm not too fond of Moletrap, as I sometimes feel like he's not that interested in what is going on. I normally don't mind the occasional "um..", but that happens quite a bit when I've listened to Moletrap cast, and it kind of irritates me. I'd prefer if he cuts those out, and instead waits a bit. Then again, it can be hard to find something to say while solo-casting a lot, but I think the arrival of Grubby will improve this.
You can queue non sequential upgrades, can't have +1 weapons researching and +2 weapons queued. But yeah, with so many more informed and competent potential casters out there I'm not sure how moletrap is still relevent in the scene. Back when english commentary was limited to youtube heros and it was one of the only ways for new players to be introduced to the competitive scene he did sc a great service. Now he needs to either step it the fuck up or fade away.
Yes you can, you just can't queue them in the same building. 2 evo can have +2 and +2 queued while +1 +1 still on the way.
Ah nevermind why are we even discussing this, at the time it was not possible to que upgrades.
On August 30 2012 23:00 NuKE[vZ] wrote: People hate him for no reason... he's been great at the OSL. Tastosis can't cast everything in the World people, let's grow up a bit.
What hate. This is a feedback post. If you don't have any feedback, just get out.
To be honest, he needs to sharpen A LOT his sc2 knowledge, even he casts with grubby. And i will wait till there to speak any further. I also dislike his voice, but hey, the poor guy can't do anything about it.
On August 30 2012 06:57 Natespank wrote: Since Moletrap didn't start this thread, nor ask for this feedback, I can hardly believe that this thread is a means to improve his casting. Secondly, you're biased from both the tone of the OP, and blatantly, in words. Therefore, I assume this is an indirect attempt to get Moletrap fired by means of a demonstration of public opinion, and yet more indirectly, to get another caster to take over for him.
Though I personally dislike his casting, I find this thread extremely distasteful...
You can find a conspiracy theory in anything if you look deeply enough. My goal is to make the best with what we are offered. If I want tacos but get enchiladas instead, and i'm really hungry but don't like enchiladas, I try to spice them up to the best of my ability. Similarly, rather then just boycott Moletrap's casting altogether because I don't like it, i'm giving opinions on what specifically I don't like, and how these things can be improved upon.
Maybe my opinions don't match the majority, or my suggestions are only things that would make the cast more enjoyable for myself only. However, that doesn't seem to be the case based on the feedback given in this thread. While I agree that many of the posts could be more polite and tasteful, I don't see any harm in giving a platform for people to suggest improvements to the casting of a show they really want to watch, but are otherwise put off of due to the nature of the casting taking place.
On top of that, I don't see how my OP came off biased, I stated that I don't like Moletrap's casting, but since he is clearly going to be a long-term caster for OGN, I want to give him feedback that may help him improve to the point that I do like it.
Moletrap is great alone but I don't think he's found a good casting partner yet. His BW casting was exceptional. Good idea for a thread considering all the hate Moletrap gets. If you don't like him, give him feedback. Only way he's going to improve and make watching Kespa enjoyable for you.
All irrational flaming aside, Moletrap has been working at this for far too long to still be "just okay" at casting. I think he's fine, but nowhere near proficient enough to be casting in such a legendary league.
MOLETRAP..... what i have to say to this guy: - He was the reason why i dont watch (early gsl code a, he retired and that was the "best time of my life")
In my opinion is Moletrap like a real trap like this one for moles:
But now... OSL.... what have you done to me, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
For some reasons (i rly dont know why), Moletrap is getting 0,0001% with each Cast better, what did you thing guys?
I personally like Moletraps casting. It isn't spectacular, but far from bad. He will shine with an analytical like Grubby, because he brings emotions and the "wierdness" a good casting needs.
It was significantly better than at GOM in my opinion and solocasting isn't easy, only people like Artosis can pull it off properly. I think he did a pretty good job considering the circumstances. Better than stuff like Husky, CatsPajamas, etcetera. I still am not sure why so many people hate his casting but I think he did a pretty good job, I don't think it deserved this many dislikes.
On August 30 2012 12:12 phunnykidd wrote: moletrap " mvp maybe lost 5 or 6 scvs... circa 7 scvs" in reality they JUST showed the worker kill count and its 24!! what an idiot
User was warned for this post
Yeah I noticed that too.. shame really rooting for you buddy! Keep at it.. I know you can cast well (did it in bw)
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
You can queue upgrades...
you obviously cant
You don't play StarCraft II too often, do you? You can queue upgrades in this game, for instance in an Engineering Bay, Forge or Evolution Chamber.
Back on topic: I'm not too fond of Moletrap, as I sometimes feel like he's not that interested in what is going on. I normally don't mind the occasional "um..", but that happens quite a bit when I've listened to Moletrap cast, and it kind of irritates me. I'd prefer if he cuts those out, and instead waits a bit. Then again, it can be hard to find something to say while solo-casting a lot, but I think the arrival of Grubby will improve this.
You can queue non sequential upgrades, can't have +1 weapons researching and +2 weapons queued. But yeah, with so many more informed and competent potential casters out there I'm not sure how moletrap is still relevent in the scene. Back when english commentary was limited to youtube heros and it was one of the only ways for new players to be introduced to the competitive scene he did sc a great service. Now he needs to either step it the fuck up or fade away.
Yes you can, you just can't queue them in the same building. 2 evo can have +2 and +2 queued while +1 +1 still on the way.
No, you can't. That's just wrong. +1 is a requirement to get +2, so you can't queue +2 until you have +1. Just like you can't queue a starport until you have a factory already built.
On August 30 2012 12:12 phunnykidd wrote: moletrap " mvp maybe lost 5 or 6 scvs... circa 7 scvs" in reality they JUST showed the worker kill count and its 24!! what an idiot
watching him cast MC vs a kespa toss was soooo bad. the whole time it was obvious MC was going for a blink stalker play to FF the ramp to keep him out of his main, and moletrap is like "oh MC always does this, he always has sentries for guardian shields! he loves it!!" umm no? then he sees the warp prism carrying the sentries, even MORE obvious he then says " oh wow MC going for an elevator strategy with all his men now!" um NOOOOOO you idiot he has BLINK!
dude... its just soooo frustrating. i think im gonna watch the korean stream for now on T_T
I'm not really a fan of moletrap but I'm not a hater, he has room for improvement and considering grubby will co-cast him I guess he could improve his casting on the OSL
You guys should realize he is solo casting with no access to the game client. It's not like he has the same resources as GSL. Yeah, people like me also do the same thing from home, but it's definitely not easy and I make mistakes too. Don't criticize him as much for things like that.
Personally I think he needs to brush up on his game knowledge, because he is making many wrong calls in games. It's hard for him to be stuck with the current role of analyst and "noob friendly" caster, I would wait until he has Grubby supporting him before make decisions about not watching because of him. His bias toward players and teams is distracting, but that happens for many casters, it's natural.
I think he'll recognize his current casting is not at his best level and it's affected by many things. Don't rush to judgment and miss something like Grubby casting with him.
I think ooooophidians points are valid, grubby as co caster will make the duo great imho. keep at it moletrap much <3 for the content u provide/castings. thx
i will probably get flamed for this but i cannot stand his low league quality knowledge base and thus primitive casting analysis level. he just makes nonsensical conclusions that any more expierenced player would be like "uhhhhh.....no?, have u even considered these obvious counter arugments to that idea, e.g. x,y,z," it really ruins the game for me, i cant stand knowing way more than the purported 'expert commentator'. it makes ogn look like a joke imo, even tho i KNOW its not.
On August 31 2012 11:39 Kfcnoob wrote: i will probably get flamed for this but i cannot stand his low league quality knowledge base and thus primitive casting analysis level. he just makes nonsensical conclusions that any more expierenced player would be like "uhhhhh.....no?, have u even considered these obvious counter arugments to that idea, e.g. x,y,z," it really ruins the game for me, i cant stand knowing way more than the purported 'expert commentator'. it makes ogn look like a joke imo, even tho i KNOW its not.
Do not start a thought with that if you ever want to be taken seriously. You're just asking people to flame you... why? Don't you take your contributions seriously enough to expect them not to be flamed?
My opinion is this, please let me know if you disagree.
It seems like most haters hate the fact that he lacks game knowledge and has bad casting skills
Most supporters say "he just needs to brush up on knowledge and it should be good to go"
However, the thing is, moletrap has been professional (getting paid to do so) casting starcraft 2 for basically a year +. How can a person getting paid to do his job STILL have to "brush up" knowledge after a year of doing it professionally??
I think that ALONE makes me question moletrap's effort in his job and his commitment. I criticize him because i see NO improvements in all of his mistakes. It seems like hes just doing it to get by and not trying to do it better.
yeah to sum it up , its the game knowledge that is an issue. prob ogn need to hire a caster that atleast have 1000+ points in masters before able to cast haha
Hey man I used to hate your casting back in GomTV, to the point of muting. You have improved quite a lot, still not my favorite but a solid caster. Keep it up. Looking forward to seeing you cast with Grubby.
He needs to vastly improve his working knowledge of Starcraft 2. I feel I know more about it than he does and I've only been playing irregularly for 6 months and am a lowly silver leaguer. He's had 2 years as a professional caster. He should know a lot more than I do about the game. On that note, I think he should recieve some coaching in all the races and play them regularly. Even if his mechanics hold him in the lower leagues, he needs to understand the game at a higher level.
Pretty much this. I can tolerate a less than gold plated radio voice or tangential stories if I am getting competent in-game perspective. I don't need Moletrap to be an analyst but I do need him to have a better understanding of the inner-workings of the game to keep me listening if he's by himself. Probably will be fine with Grubby though.
This so much. When his cast is obviously incorrect I get angry at him. Basically I can't trust anything that he's saying because he might be completely wrong on the simpliest issue. I'm better off muting the stream and listening to music when he's actually spreading misinformation about what's going on in game.
On August 31 2012 11:31 oOOoOphidian wrote: You guys should realize he is solo casting with no access to the game client. It's not like he has the same resources as GSL. Yeah, people like me also do the same thing from home, but it's definitely not easy and I make mistakes too. Don't criticize him as much for things like that.
Personally I think he needs to brush up on his game knowledge, because he is making many wrong calls in games. It's hard for him to be stuck with the current role of analyst and "noob friendly" caster, I would wait until he has Grubby supporting him before make decisions about not watching because of him. His bias toward players and teams is distracting, but that happens for many casters, it's natural.
I think he'll recognize his current casting is not at his best level and it's affected by many things. Don't rush to judgment and miss something like Grubby casting with him.
Sorry, but this is irrelivant to me. It's part of the reason, sure, but he doesn't get forgiven for it. I'm sorry, but he's casting. him. He's the dude sitting behind the desk so he's the one who cops the hate. It may be unfair, but that's the way it works. When he says he can't see the supply count because the display is bad I just think 'wow, this is a crap cast. I can see the supply count, why bother with the cast?' What do you think tastosis would do if they couldn't see the supply count?
I have nothing against moletrap, but he constantly try to predict the obvious and when it happens he yells out "See, I called it." The complete lack of game knowledge is intolerable...
On August 31 2012 14:34 VirgilSC2 wrote: I liked him better when he was casting LoL to be honest. Much more his element I think.
He does play-by-play only in the OGN LOL casting, while Torch(or Scarra/Locodoco) did the analysis. His play-by-play was tolerable and decent. The problem w/ his SC2 casting is he's kinda forced into the analyst role simply because of his knowledge(and lets be real here, he knows a LOT about the players and their styles as he's been casting starcraft for years). He just sounds like a pompous idiot because of the way he casts, interrupting people and completely missing what's on the screen, but he actually does know A LOT about the game.
IMO he brings nothing to the table. He's not funny or personable, he doesn't mesh well with other casters and help create synergy he's not good at play by play, he doesn't provide in depth analysis, he doesn't have insight into the current metagame, he doesn't have info on lesser known players, (this from GSL days, everyone is OSL is well known) he doesn't have stats on recent results from well known players So my 'constructive criticism' is thus: Dearest Moletrap, pick one of the items above and learn to do it. The last two would be a great idea, as all it requires is a bit of effort and research. Or just wait for grubby to arrive. Grubby is a superhero and will save OSL from their crappy format/stream/moletrap.
On August 31 2012 02:41 ElephantBaby wrote: You are biased already by starting this thread.
Love moletrap, and always will.
Sorry but isn't this the definition of biased? You saying you love him and always will?
I'm presenting my own support, but he is trying to start a riot.
I'm not trying to start a riot, i'm trying to make a situation that would normally drive me away from watching OSL events with English commentary in favor of Korean commentary more favorable. How would you have approached the situation in a less biased way? I made as many points as I could to show respect to Moletrap and make this thread constructive. I'm trying to do everything in my power, as a consumer, to make a product that I am very interested in, more attractive than it currently is.
If I were trying to start a riot, I would have just suggested all of the angry Moletrap haters all email Kespa that they are boycotting if he casts. I doubt OGN will ever even see this thread. Moletrap, on the other hand, will see it. And I hope he can appreciate the people giving honest feedback, and ignore the people rudely flaming him. I in no way condone the sort of approach and attitude many people in this thread are taking, and wish it to be as civil and polite as possible. I believe that, if Moletrap is willing to listen to much of his feedback, he can become a quality caster. Infact, there have been marked improvements in his casting not, in my view, since his switch to OSL from GSL. However, unfortunately, it is still not on par with what I would expect from a caster of the one of the most prestigious leagues in the history of esports, and a premeir Starcraft 2 league at that.
So my apologies for voicing my opinion and doing my part as a consumer to try to help a product I want to support improve.
On August 31 2012 02:41 ElephantBaby wrote: You are biased already by starting this thread.
Love moletrap, and always will.
Sorry but isn't this the definition of biased? You saying you love him and always will?
I'm presenting my own support, but he is trying to start a riot.
I'm not trying to start a riot, i'm trying to make a situation that would normally drive me away from watching OSL events with English commentary in favor of Korean commentary more favorable. How would you have approached the situation in a less biased way? I made as many points as I could to show respect to Moletrap and make this thread constructive. I'm trying to do everything in my power, as a consumer, to make a product that I am very interested in, more attractive than it currently is.
If I were trying to start a riot, I would have just suggested all of the angry Moletrap haters all email Kespa that they are boycotting if he casts. I doubt OGN will ever even see this thread. Moletrap, on the other hand, will see it. And I hope he can appreciate the people giving honest feedback, and ignore the people rudely flaming him. I in no way condone the sort of approach and attitude many people in this thread are taking, and wish it to be as civil and polite as possible. I believe that, if Moletrap is willing to listen to much of his feedback, he can become a quality caster. Infact, there have been marked improvements in his casting not, in my view, since his switch to OSL from GSL. However, unfortunately, it is still not on par with what I would expect from a caster of the one of the most prestigious leagues in the history of esports, and a premeir Starcraft 2 league at that.
So my apologies for voicing my opinion and doing my part as a consumer to try to help a product I want to support improve.
In my eyes, you are doing that by wearing a bullet proof suit. If you want to present your opinions, just start a thread saying he is bad, don't start a thread calling for people's "feedback", appearing to be objective, but obviously you are negative towards him. Official feedback thread should only be opened by neutral individual, TL staff or Moletrap himself.
If you want to present your opinions, just start a thread saying he is bad, don't start a thread calling for people's "feedback", appearing to be objective, but obviously you are negative towards him
...obviously?
How is it so obvious? The OP calls for constructive criticism and level headed discussion
If you want to present your opinions, just start a thread saying he is bad, don't start a thread calling for people's "feedback", appearing to be objective, but obviously you are negative towards him
...obviously?
How is it so obvious? The OP calls for constructive criticism and level headed discussion
1. If this thread is not started with a negative tone, why is there no similar feedback thread about Artosis and Tasteless? Calling out "I'm not raping you, just making love with force" doesn't make it legal.
2. Geez, certainly not me, ofc i'm not neutral. Originally I thought this is a thread created by Moletrap himself. That would be pretty cool though.
I watched him cast the recent OSL finals as well as a recent round of this SC2 OSL and unfortunately nothing has changed since the GSL days. His knowledge of the game is still very limited, he misses things all the time, and his voice hasn't gotten any easier on the ears. Based on interviews and stuff I've seen him do he seems like a good enough guy, but I don't think he's a good caster and I've got no interest in watching an English stream of OSL as long as he's there.
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
You can queue upgrades...
you obviously cant
You don't play StarCraft II too often, do you? You can queue upgrades in this game, for instance in an Engineering Bay, Forge or Evolution Chamber.
Back on topic: I'm not too fond of Moletrap, as I sometimes feel like he's not that interested in what is going on. I normally don't mind the occasional "um..", but that happens quite a bit when I've listened to Moletrap cast, and it kind of irritates me. I'd prefer if he cuts those out, and instead waits a bit. Then again, it can be hard to find something to say while solo-casting a lot, but I think the arrival of Grubby will improve this.
You can queue non sequential upgrades, can't have +1 weapons researching and +2 weapons queued. But yeah, with so many more informed and competent potential casters out there I'm not sure how moletrap is still relevent in the scene. Back when english commentary was limited to youtube heros and it was one of the only ways for new players to be introduced to the competitive scene he did sc a great service. Now he needs to either step it the fuck up or fade away.
Yes you can, you just can't queue them in the same building. 2 evo can have +2 and +2 queued while +1 +1 still on the way.
No, you can't. That's just wrong. +1 is a requirement to get +2, so you can't queue +2 until you have +1. Just like you can't queue a starport until you have a factory already built.
I can't speak to other races, but I know it works for zerg.
On August 30 2012 21:35 Akhee wrote: im not from bw, so i dont know bw moletrap, but i heard he was really good at casting, i hope he actually start playing starcraft2 a lot so he actually learn things like you can`t queue upgrades etc, i cant find other reason than lack of play to me...
You can queue upgrades...
you obviously cant
You don't play StarCraft II too often, do you? You can queue upgrades in this game, for instance in an Engineering Bay, Forge or Evolution Chamber.
Back on topic: I'm not too fond of Moletrap, as I sometimes feel like he's not that interested in what is going on. I normally don't mind the occasional "um..", but that happens quite a bit when I've listened to Moletrap cast, and it kind of irritates me. I'd prefer if he cuts those out, and instead waits a bit. Then again, it can be hard to find something to say while solo-casting a lot, but I think the arrival of Grubby will improve this.
You can queue non sequential upgrades, can't have +1 weapons researching and +2 weapons queued. But yeah, with so many more informed and competent potential casters out there I'm not sure how moletrap is still relevent in the scene. Back when english commentary was limited to youtube heros and it was one of the only ways for new players to be introduced to the competitive scene he did sc a great service. Now he needs to either step it the fuck up or fade away.
Yes you can, you just can't queue them in the same building. 2 evo can have +2 and +2 queued while +1 +1 still on the way.
No, you can't. That's just wrong. +1 is a requirement to get +2, so you can't queue +2 until you have +1. Just like you can't queue a starport until you have a factory already built.
I can't speak to other races, but I know it works for zerg.
no it doesn't.... this is .... just wow, believe me you can't
to be fair, moletrap is in a shitty situation having to solo cast, and the problems with the stream probably caused a lot of negativity which people direct towards moletrap. I'm reserving judgement until he casts with grubby.
On August 31 2012 22:54 DeCoder wrote: To his credit, he did decent in the recent osl considering the circumstances.
Yeah I agree to this, he is doing really well for solo casting the first season with SC2, I dont think he had had a lot of solo casting experience in the past other than his videos on his youtube so he is doing well considering circumstance. But it isint pretty.
he's like a lesser knowledgeable day9 imo. both do those *oh, ah, aah, ahah* screams all the time. moletrap is less knowledgable but less feminine as well. anyway, i barely listen to casts. as long as he just sticks to play-by-play i think he will be fine. no need to analyse. when i watch real sports (mainly football), its the same thing. most of those analysts knows jack shit, even the former players. they've been out of the game for a while, and just spout the same shit over and over. just do play-by-play. edit: i've never understood caster hate. i pretty much hate every single real sports caster (i hate joe buck with a passion), but still watch the games. if you ever visit football forums, everybody hates on john madden, but they still watch.
Moltrap needs a team of ccommentators. Right now all he can do is be the caster which does the play by play but not enough time for analysis.
Enthusiasm is a huge issue as well. It doesn't matter if you're the most knowledgeable guy about SC2, nobody wants to watch a guy that shows no passion for the game at all. I'm sure Moltrap loves the job but it's like watching Yuki Nagato commentate where you cannot tell the difference between being genuinely excited about something or just being stoic.
On September 01 2012 01:38 JimSocks wrote: he's like a lesser knowledgeable day9 imo. both do those *oh, ah, aah, ahah* screams all the time. moletrap is less knowledgable but less feminine as well. anyway, i barely listen to casts. as long as he just sticks to play-by-play i think he will be fine. no need to analyse. when i watch real sports (mainly football), its the same thing. most of those analysts knows jack shit, even the former players. they've been out of the game for a while, and just spout the same shit over and over. just do play-by-play. edit: i've never understood caster hate. i pretty much hate every single real sports caster (i hate joe buck with a passion), but still watch the games. if you ever visit football forums, everybody hates on john madden, but they still watch.
Former Football players know "jack shit" about the game? That is the most retarded thing i have read here. But you know more than them right? lmao. One thing is to dislike a caster but to say he knows nothing when he is/was a former player of the game is dumb. To "hate" on Moletrap's casting is valid because he is not even diamond so there is no point to hear him trying to analyze the game when you at home will probably figure it out better than him. That leaves his personality which i dont dislike, but i dont sit there entertained by it either. Without either of these tools he will not succeed as a caster which is why there are masses who are speaking out on his casting. People wanting him replaced is not "hating", it is more of a valid argument.
Artosis has mastered both of these attributes which is why he is the number 1 caster right now.
On September 01 2012 01:38 JimSocks wrote: he's like a lesser knowledgeable day9 imo. both do those *oh, ah, aah, ahah* screams all the time. moletrap is less knowledgable but less feminine as well. anyway, i barely listen to casts. as long as he just sticks to play-by-play i think he will be fine. no need to analyse. when i watch real sports (mainly football), its the same thing. most of those analysts knows jack shit, even the former players. they've been out of the game for a while, and just spout the same shit over and over. just do play-by-play. edit: i've never understood caster hate. i pretty much hate every single real sports caster (i hate joe buck with a passion), but still watch the games. if you ever visit football forums, everybody hates on john madden, but they still watch.
Former Football players know "jack shit" about the game? That is the most retarded thing i have read here. But you know more than them right? lmao. One thing is to dislike a caster but to say he knows nothing when he is/was a former player of the game is dumb. To "hate" on Moletrap's casting is valid because he is not even diamond so there is no point to hear him trying to analyze the game when you at home will probably figure it out better than him. That leaves his personality which i dont dislike, but i dont sit there entertained by it either. Without either of these tools he will not succeed as a caster which is why there are masses who are speaking out on his casting. People wanting him replaced is not "hating", it is more of a valid argument.
Artosis has mastered both of these attributes which is why he is the number 1 caster right now.
The thing is about Moletrap is that his sc2 knowledge is disgustingly awful, or that's the way it seems. Moletrap's analysis is severely lacking and I think that's one of the things that really hurt him as a caster especially when he's solo casting.
If Moletrap does understand this game he doesn't display it. He seems to attempt a play by play commentary when his enthusiasm is severely lacking.
To me it honestly just seems like he doesn't care..
On August 30 2012 04:12 elmexicano wrote: i like moletrap so many haters here in teamliquid its really sad , i like how he cast and enjoy his commentaries, like ohh no!!!!!!, dont listen to trolls moletrap, haters going to hate!!!!
The world is not divided into 'people that agree with you' and 'trolls/haters'.
mm a hater, please go to rededit and make another thread to hate on moletrap, theres like 5 right now i bet at least one its yours, dont you haters have another think to do.? like play sc2 ,ladder or play guilds wars 2> shu shuuuu
Dafüq?
Topic: The "screeches" made me insta-shut down Code A back in the day. Now it is mostly the issue with game knowledge which is already pointed out in this thread. Maybe he will be better in the next weeks/months but the first impression is so hard to come over and i really hope he lets Grubby actually cast and not just rolls him over.
On September 02 2012 22:20 DreadKnight wrote: To me it honestly just seems like he doesn't care..
Yeah exactly this, no idea how to "fix" it though. You can't just FAKE it 24/7, you have to have it in you.
Moletrap needs to do this again. What a brilliant 1st impression he gave, and even threads on TL were saying how he brought fire to English commentary, compared to the usual stuff we see. He has the passion and ability to do well, but needs his confidence back and support from people here.
Moletrap needs to do this again. What a brilliant 1st impression he gave, and even threads on TL were saying how he brought fire to English commentary, compared to the usual stuff we see. He has the passion and ability to do well, but needs his confidence back and support from people here.
On August 31 2012 02:41 ElephantBaby wrote: You are biased already by starting this thread.
Love moletrap, and always will.
Sorry but isn't this the definition of biased? You saying you love him and always will?
I'm presenting my own support, but he is trying to start a riot.
I'm not trying to start a riot, i'm trying to make a situation that would normally drive me away from watching OSL events with English commentary in favor of Korean commentary more favorable. How would you have approached the situation in a less biased way? I made as many points as I could to show respect to Moletrap and make this thread constructive. I'm trying to do everything in my power, as a consumer, to make a product that I am very interested in, more attractive than it currently is.
If I were trying to start a riot, I would have just suggested all of the angry Moletrap haters all email Kespa that they are boycotting if he casts. I doubt OGN will ever even see this thread. Moletrap, on the other hand, will see it. And I hope he can appreciate the people giving honest feedback, and ignore the people rudely flaming him. I in no way condone the sort of approach and attitude many people in this thread are taking, and wish it to be as civil and polite as possible. I believe that, if Moletrap is willing to listen to much of his feedback, he can become a quality caster. Infact, there have been marked improvements in his casting not, in my view, since his switch to OSL from GSL. However, unfortunately, it is still not on par with what I would expect from a caster of the one of the most prestigious leagues in the history of esports, and a premeir Starcraft 2 league at that.
So my apologies for voicing my opinion and doing my part as a consumer to try to help a product I want to support improve.
In my eyes, you are doing that by wearing a bullet proof suit. If you want to present your opinions, just start a thread saying he is bad, don't start a thread calling for people's "feedback", appearing to be objective, but obviously you are negative towards him. Official feedback thread should only be opened by neutral individual, TL staff or Moletrap himself.
haha hop off moletrap's lap.
Feedback: stop casting sc2 till you can be bothered watching enough replays to learn the game.
I know he has lots of haters and I'm not a massive fan of his but I think he gets a lot of flak undeservedly. He's definitely not the greatest caster out there but I just don't see how people can make him out to be that bad. My vote is that his casting is average now and he has to improve, one thing for sure is that he needs to improve his knowledge of sc2, I find some of the things that he says are not exactly right and unlike other top casters his insights are not up to a certain level yet.
On September 02 2012 22:52 Khai wrote: I know he has lots of haters and I'm not a massive fan of his but I think he gets a lot of flak undeservedly. He's definitely not the greatest caster out there but I just don't see how people can make him out to be that bad. My vote is that his casting is average now and he has to improve, one thing for sure is that he needs to improve his knowledge of sc2, I find some of the things that he says are not exactly right and unlike other top casters his insights are not up to a certain level yet.
He casts LoL as well, his SC2 analysis will never be on par with casters who focus purely on SC2.
I thought Moletrap was great when paired with DOA when he first went to Korea.
But over time his casting has deteriorated significantly. I think maybe he just got burnt out on the game. My best advice would be to take a vacation or something, and seriously consider if he wants to continue this as a career. His youtube casts were great back in the day, but nowadays he seems so exhausted all the time. And he makes a lot of mistakes in his casts because of it.
On August 31 2012 22:41 ProxyKnoxy wrote: to be fair, moletrap is in a shitty situation having to solo cast, and the problems with the stream probably caused a lot of negativity which people direct towards moletrap. I'm reserving judgement until he casts with grubby.
Thing is, Moletrap has always done much better in a solo cast environment than a dual caster environment. He's said himself that he is much more comfortable solo casting than dual casting.
I think the only caster I've seen synergize with Moletrap well is Doa.
Id say the biggest thing is being more positive! Hype up the good thing players do, don't nitpick mistakes, say "he has to play really good/micro well/whatever" instead of "he has no chance anymore". If someone is behind, dont say their macro is lacking but that player B's harass and pressure forced his pressure away, those kind of things. Make things more exciting and hyped!
On September 02 2012 23:18 X3GoldDot wrote: hes massively overhated imho, hes a decent caster, not 1 of the best but good enough to be an official OSL caster
That's where I disagree. I think you need to be one of the best to be an official OSL caster. Thank goodness Grubby is headed out.
I'm really shocked at the poll results. Moletrap was one of the most loved casters in Brood War, I'm not sure whether it's the community which has changed or his casting. He seems the exact same thinking on his casting before and after.
I was just rewatching Korean Air S2 OSL finals cast by moletrap and someone else that I don't remember (though also a good caster) and I really liked moletrap in that one. He was very knowledgeable about BW, I liked that cast.
On September 02 2012 23:18 X3GoldDot wrote: not 1 of the best but good enough to be an official OSL caster
You should think about what you just wrote a little more.
The OSL is such a big deal we should ideally have nothing but the best casting it.
The trouble is that there isn't much of 'the best' to choose from. Tastosis is with GOM and that isn't going to change, and there are very few english casters who will dedicate their lives and go to Korea to cast - it is a huge commitment. Given these circumstances Moletrap is the natural choice. ++++Grubby is coming and he is good man
On September 02 2012 23:37 Phayze wrote: I'm really shocked at the poll results. Moletrap was one of the most loved casters in Brood War, I'm not sure whether it's the community which has changed or his casting. He seems the exact same thinking on his casting before and after.
(Also Moletrap's thought on Jaedong given the win at around 24 minutes and 30 seconds. Basically he understands and makes the point it would have been unfair to Jaedong too if they did a rematch [in any case, it's a lose lose all around as it's hard to make the right calls].)
As you can see in the video (they start talking about the game instead of the players a minute in), Moletrap is much better in BW than in SC2 (especially with co casting).
Moletrap was good in BW. He knew all the players, he knew most of the strategies, he basically knew most of the stuff needed to cast BW.
I've only really watched him cast with Doa when he went over early in the GSL, but I did enjoy Moletrap casting during the GSL. I found him informative and I liked his voice.
That said I hate when people talk over each other, and Moletrap had tendency to do that. It isn't nearly as bad as Painuser, but he had tendency to do so.
On September 02 2012 23:37 Phayze wrote: I'm really shocked at the poll results. Moletrap was one of the most loved casters in Brood War, I'm not sure whether it's the community which has changed or his casting. He seems the exact same thinking on his casting before and after.
(Also Moletrap's thought on Jaedong given the win at around 24 minutes and 30 seconds. Basically he understands and makes the point it would have been unfair to Jaedong too if they did a rematch [in any case, it's a lose lose all around as it's hard to make the right calls].)
As you can see in the video (they start talking about the game instead of the players a minute in), Moletrap is much better in BW than in SC2 (especially with co casting).
Moletrap was good in BW. He knew all the players, he knew most of the strategies, he basically knew most of the stuff needed to cast BW.
its quite amazing how much much better moletrap is in broodwar, if he would be this good in sc2 no one would complain except very few. Sadly he maybe just lacks the passion for sc2 idk.
I agree that Moletrap is way better at casting BW than SC2. I listened to him cast the Jangbi vs. Fantasy finals and I really enjoyed his casting. In SC2 though, he just has a lot of mis-calls and just seems to lack overall SC2 knowledge. He also just makes a lot of silly mistakes when casting, like greatly miscounting workers lost, for example.
On September 02 2012 23:37 Phayze wrote: I'm really shocked at the poll results. Moletrap was one of the most loved casters in Brood War, I'm not sure whether it's the community which has changed or his casting. He seems the exact same thinking on his casting before and after.
(Also Moletrap's thought on Jaedong given the win at around 24 minutes and 30 seconds. Basically he understands and makes the point it would have been unfair to Jaedong too if they did a rematch [in any case, it's a lose lose all around as it's hard to make the right calls].)
As you can see in the video (they start talking about the game instead of the players a minute in), Moletrap is much better in BW than in SC2 (especially with co casting).
Moletrap was good in BW. He knew all the players, he knew most of the strategies, he basically knew most of the stuff needed to cast BW.
its quite amazing how much much better moletrap is in broodwar, if he would be this good in sc2 no one would complain except very few. Sadly he maybe just lacks the passion for sc2 idk.
Yeah. I wonder if he realizes it and I hope someone can get him back to BW level of casting.
One major difference is that in BW, Moletrap definitely paid attention to every detail and basically memorized all the builds everyone used. In SC2, he doesn't do this as often. I wonder why's that? I definitely hope he regains his passion for SC.
In BW, you can tell he was passionate for the game. In SC2, it doesn't seem he's as interested which is disappointing.
Like him or not. He is one tough son of a bitch. With the hate the kelly had, and some more, hes' gone from castig GOM, to league of legends now to OLS.
Good for you Moletrap. If you read this, don't you ever stop for one minute.
On August 30 2012 05:12 cari-kira wrote: My personal thoughts: Only noobs bash casters. The others see for themselves what happens in a game. Even more, when theres a dedicated observer. So for me the whole "casters need skill"-discussion is absolutely useless. And everyone who "hates" a specific caster just tells me that his opinion is worthless.
+1
Casters need to be good at casting and love it. I really don;t think a high level of skill is required at the game. Diamond / masters should be enough.
moletrap is a top 3 caster in both sc2 and bw. his casting is both entertaining and provides knowledge to the game that is equal to or higher than the likes of artosis apollo or day9. his insight and knowledge of bw and sc2 is very deep, he makes calls correctly 100% of the time, with ogn and gom and he has that golden voice that gives people a pleasant sounding cast whenever they listen to him...eargasms. like most successful people, he gets hate because people are jealous of his skill and hard work. moletrap is one of the best, if not the best caster this industry has to offer. i dont know why foreign events just dont book him for more tournaments as he will get more tickets for live events as well as more views for the tournament stream. i have never seen a bad moletrap cast
EPT
, i like how he cast and enjoy his commentaries, like ohh no!!!!!!, dont listen to trolls moletrap, haters going to hate!!!!
There are some of us that greatly appreciate all the work you've done.
