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On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit
I enjoy this vast display of exaggeration. Assuming that you have been a pro gamer for Kespa and all, you know that they are treated like shit. Right!
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On August 27 2012 13:03 stangstang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Also, we know how hard it was to become a Brood War pro and why most of the ESF and current SC2 pros did not make a big splash in the scene. It took a load of skill. We know the potential of Brood War pros which is why people make the comparison. LOL no one cares about that. only you. what we want is all players to play in all leagues.
Actually a lot of people care about that because it showed how weak GOM players were. You cannot always get what you want. You should have learned that as a child.
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On August 27 2012 13:03 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit Now that's where you are wrong. Kespa's living condition far exceed the GOM team guys. I thought we discussed it here in the thread.
We did indeed. I was part of that discussion. That is why I am one lining folks. No point in repeating the same thing twice.
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On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Also, we know how hard it was to become a Brood War pro and why most of the ESF and current SC2 pros did not make a big splash in the scene. It took a load of skill. We know the potential of Brood War pros which is why people make the comparison.
The reason, or at least one of the major reasons, that a lot of the ESF players were not able to break out in BW but became the best players in SC2 was because if you were not already an A team player in BW then you had to spend so much of your time helping the best players on your team stay the best and not a lot of time on improving yourself. when players switched to SC2 they were able to focus on themselves and as a result they were able to reach their potential something that was not possible in BW. remember that July advised MC, they were team mates in BW, to change to SC2 because he would have better opportunities to be successful because by that time BW had become too codified.
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On August 27 2012 13:03 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit Now that's where you are wrong. Kespa's living condition far exceed the GOM team guys. I thought we discussed it here in the thread.
I am rather less certain about this than you are. As I asked a while ago, I am not sure whether the eSF teams are even poor anymore, given by the rather dramatic expansion actions of teams such as Startale and MVP. One year ago you would probably be right that they have no money at all to pay salary and stuff. Nowadays we can't be sure, but they have enough money to buy other teams, setup LoL teams, and some even fly people around, etc. (Unless you are NSH.)
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On August 27 2012 13:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:03 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Also, we know how hard it was to become a Brood War pro and why most of the ESF and current SC2 pros did not make a big splash in the scene. It took a load of skill. We know the potential of Brood War pros which is why people make the comparison. LOL no one cares about that. only you. what we want is all players to play in all leagues. Actually a lot of people care about that because it showed how weak GOM players were. You cannot always get what you want. You should have learned that as a child.
If you want to talk about the skill level of kespa players vs gom players, there is a thread on TL called "The elephant in the room". This thread is talking about Kespa banning their players from entering GSL and GSL players refusing to continue with OSL as a result. Try to stay on topic please. You should have learned that as a child.
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On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit
and why do YOU think they threat them like shit? : )
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On August 27 2012 13:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit I enjoy this vast display of exaggeration. Assuming that you have been a pro gamer for Kespa and all, you know that they are treated like shit. Right!
Lol you obviously know nothing about kespA. Go listen to idras recent interview he used to be on a kespA team.
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On August 27 2012 13:09 coloursheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Also, we know how hard it was to become a Brood War pro and why most of the ESF and current SC2 pros did not make a big splash in the scene. It took a load of skill. We know the potential of Brood War pros which is why people make the comparison. The reason, or at least one of the major reasons, that a lot of the ESF players were not able to break out in BW but became the best players in SC2 was because if you were not already an A team player in BW then you had to spend so much of your time helping the best players on your team stay the best and not a lot of time on improving yourself. when players switched to SC2 they were able to focus on themselves and as a result they were able to reach their potential something that was not possible in BW. remember that July advised MC, they were team mates in BW, to change to SC2 because he would have better opportunities to be successful because by that time BW had become too codified.
Ok. So, what you are telling me is that the current SC2 players have reached their potential and that Kespa players after 3 1/2 months while playing two games have already caught up to it? Sounds to me like very bad news for GOM players and that GSL should stay GOM and OSL should stay Kespa. Otherwise, GOM players will only have foreign events as a way to make a profit. July probably encouraged MC to switch to SC2 because he was not doing well on BW with a 1-9 record. Also, I do not understand the bolded quote. I would think that training with the best player on the team would well...make you better overall. Because you improve by playing people better then you.
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On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up.
Uh, I call bullshit. One series doesn't mean anything. Just because Naama beat MVP once doesn't make him the better player.
OH, and you said that foreigners would rather watch two Koreans than two foreigners... that's just false. Or at least, it is for me and the people I know who watch sc2. Most of us would prefer to watch Foreigners VS Koreans. That's where the fun is.
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On August 27 2012 13:11 stangstang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:03 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Also, we know how hard it was to become a Brood War pro and why most of the ESF and current SC2 pros did not make a big splash in the scene. It took a load of skill. We know the potential of Brood War pros which is why people make the comparison. LOL no one cares about that. only you. what we want is all players to play in all leagues. Actually a lot of people care about that because it showed how weak GOM players were. You cannot always get what you want. You should have learned that as a child. If you want to talk about the skill level of kespa players vs gom players, there is a thread on TL called "The elephant in the room". This thread is talking about Kespa banning their players from entering GSL and GSL players refusing to continue with OSL as a result. Try to stay on topic please. You should have learned that as a child.
You were the one that quoted me first. Don't try to change the subject because you ran out of a debatable argument.
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On August 27 2012 13:14 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Uh, I call bullshit. One series doesn't mean anything. Just because Naama beat MVP once doesn't make him the better player. OH, and you said that foreigners would rather watch two Koreans than two foreigners... that's just false. Or at least, it is for me and the people I know who watch sc2. Most of us would prefer to watch Foreigners VS Koreans. That's where the fun is.
Naama has also played for 2 years. Roro hasn't and MVP wasn't the most current GSL champ, Seed is.
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On August 27 2012 13:12 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit I enjoy this vast display of exaggeration. Assuming that you have been a pro gamer for Kespa and all, you know that they are treated like shit. Right! Lol you obviously know nothing about kespA. Go listen to idras recent interview he used to be on a kespA team.
Link it. I would love to read it. thx
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On August 27 2012 13:12 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit I enjoy this vast display of exaggeration. Assuming that you have been a pro gamer for Kespa and all, you know that they are treated like shit. Right! Lol you obviously know nothing about kespA. Go listen to idras recent interview he used to be on a kespA team.
IdrA have became indolent.
Now he is too busy doing talk shows and probably giving interviews.
He is treated as an sensation while the community scorn upon him before in BW for losing to F91, a Chinese Zerg player who plays the game as a side job while he was practicing in an actual progaming environment in CJ.
I'm sure than 100% of people here would regard their shitty past to....be 'inhumane'.
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On August 27 2012 13:16 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:14 Zennith wrote:On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Uh, I call bullshit. One series doesn't mean anything. Just because Naama beat MVP once doesn't make him the better player. OH, and you said that foreigners would rather watch two Koreans than two foreigners... that's just false. Or at least, it is for me and the people I know who watch sc2. Most of us would prefer to watch Foreigners VS Koreans. That's where the fun is. Naama has also played for 2 years. Roro hasn't and MVP wasn't the most current GSL champ, Seed is.
Naama is also not very good. Anything can happen in a series, or even in a season. You're acting willfully ignorant to try to hold up your strawman argument. It isn't very convincing.
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On August 27 2012 13:03 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit Now that's where you are wrong. Kespa's living condition far exceed the GOM team guys. I thought we discussed it here in the thread.
Sorry, I think the word ''Shit'' comes off as an exaggeration, but i'll try to get my point across.
I agree that their facilities and training regiments are better that the ESF guys, but in terms of freedom and opinion, i don't agree with that. They don't even have a players association that protect their rights. According to these sources, i wouldn't say that they have it better that the ESF guys :
Free Agents policies
Stork expressing concerns
There's other sources I wanted to show coming from old threads in teamliquid, but I can't find them.
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On August 27 2012 13:20 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:12 blade55555 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:01 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:53 Geos13 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:43 seansye wrote:On August 27 2012 12:40 Moka wrote:On August 27 2012 12:03 Scarecrow wrote:
Best chance for an ESF player to win an OSL and they're just resorting to blackmail. Sad to see. Kespa had legit reasons for delaying one season (preparation time; schedule; still in partial switch from BW plus it has little effect on GSL having the elephants absent from Code B/A/S for 1 more season) whereas ESF is screwing over Kespa basically out of spite. If anything not having Kespa players in GSL gives the ESF players more chance of prizemoney/success for at least another season. I'm not sure but you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. You're basically saying that an ESF have lots of chance to win prize money in OSL and implying that Kespa players aren't up to par with them yet, but your last sentence, you're like saying, ''Oh well, ESF players are lucky that there's not any Kespa player for the next season yet'', thus implying that Kespa players are up to par or better, lol. I might be not understanding, but it seems like bias to me. And, why Kespa should decide for the players? Why not just let players choose if they want to enter in the GSL? Kespa players have expressed their desires to qualify for the GSL(like Roro), why not let them? I always thought this was because the Kespa players are under a Contract. Just because a contract exists doesn't mean that contract is fair to both parties. KESPA has way more power then the players and uses this power to prevent the players from negotiating an equitable agreement. Acts like shutting out other leagues(like GOM) is an example of this as it limits the players ability to find other opportunites. Lets take this back a step, ahem! Who created the Korean & StarCraft e-sports scene again? Exactly! Kespa made it a possibility for the players to even have an opportunity to begin with. I suggest that you do not be so closed minded. Just because you give opportunities for players to be a progamer or you have made up a scene from the ground doesn't give you the rights to treat your players like shit I enjoy this vast display of exaggeration. Assuming that you have been a pro gamer for Kespa and all, you know that they are treated like shit. Right! Lol you obviously know nothing about kespA. Go listen to idras recent interview he used to be on a kespA team. IdrA have became indolent. Now he is too busy doing talk shows and probably giving interviews. He is treated as an sensation while the community scorn upon him before in BW for losing to F91, a Chinese Zerg player who plays the game as a side job while he was practicing in an actual progaming environment in CJ. I'm sure than 100% of people here would regard their shitty past to....be 'inhumane'.
Wow dude. You just sound bitter and stupid.
User was warned for this post
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On August 27 2012 13:09 coloursheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Also, we know how hard it was to become a Brood War pro and why most of the ESF and current SC2 pros did not make a big splash in the scene. It took a load of skill. We know the potential of Brood War pros which is why people make the comparison. The reason, or at least one of the major reasons, that a lot of the ESF players were not able to break out in BW but became the best players in SC2 was because if you were not already an A team player in BW then you had to spend so much of your time helping the best players on your team stay the best and not a lot of time on improving yourself. when players switched to SC2 they were able to focus on themselves and as a result they were able to reach their potential something that was not possible in BW. remember that July advised MC, they were team mates in BW, to change to SC2 because he would have better opportunities to be successful because by that time BW had become too codified.
Oh fkn please. People would easily give up their left nut for the opportunity to work with the very best in their profession. No less true for progaming.
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On August 27 2012 13:21 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:16 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:14 Zennith wrote:On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Uh, I call bullshit. One series doesn't mean anything. Just because Naama beat MVP once doesn't make him the better player. OH, and you said that foreigners would rather watch two Koreans than two foreigners... that's just false. Or at least, it is for me and the people I know who watch sc2. Most of us would prefer to watch Foreigners VS Koreans. That's where the fun is. Naama has also played for 2 years. Roro hasn't and MVP wasn't the most current GSL champ, Seed is. Naama is also not very good. Anything can happen in a series, or even in a season. You're acting willfully ignorant to try to hold up your strawman argument. It isn't very convincing.
So, stating facts makes me ignorant? Okay! You look more ignorant for saying that I am ignorant for stating facts lol
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On August 27 2012 13:21 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:16 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:14 Zennith wrote:On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:55 S_SienZ wrote:On August 27 2012 12:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 12:44 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 11:34 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 11:27 canikizu wrote:On August 27 2012 10:52 iamho wrote:
KeSPA has little to lose here. Keep in mind most people who watch OSL aren't gamers watching from the Internet, they're fangirls and casual viewers who tune in on TV during dinner or whatever. They won't suddenly stop watching just because some guys they never heard of (the ESF players) aren't going to be playing. KeSPA will make revenue from TV ads and sponsors, same as always. The only people they are losing are Western SC2 fans, which I imagine are a much less valuable demographic since they only watch on online streams, and the OSL doesn't charge money for streams. Yes, theorically. But remember, OSL and TV are also free advertisement for ESF. Sure, people can only watch Kespa's stuff on TV right now, but because there're 2 competitive parties, sooner or later, if SC2 does well on TV, one random TV station will pick up ESF and GomTV leagues to pull viewers. That is not exactly true. If that were the case, Brood War in it's prime would have been featured on more television stations. Brood War was featured on two stations: MBC and OGN. MBC is now a music station and does not feature games anymore whereas OGN has agreements with Kespa. So, GOM actually being able to broadcast on television is very unlikely. But we did have 2 stations, right? That's the whole point of it. Even if ESF players don't have TV exposure, the fact that there's a rivalry between 2 different party will make casual audience aware of the existence of the other one. So it's basically free advertisement for ESF. Eventually if the demand allows it and the price is right, it will happen. Actually, no. The casual audience will only want to see their Kespa players. So, if it is ESF vs ESF it is unlikely that they will be watching. They want to see the best and the best were the current players of Brood War. During the WCS, the Brood War players have already demonstrated that after 3 1/2 months while simutaniously and concurrently playing two games they are already on par with GOM/ESF players. Which means later down the line they will surpass them, thus Kespa being the best pros and that is where the interest lies. Much like the foreign fans preferring to watch two Koreans rather than two foreigners (I apologize if I generalized). I never understood this line of reasoning. It's one thing to catch up to the existing level of play, it's a whole other thing to transcend it and make break thrus etc. Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Uh, I call bullshit. One series doesn't mean anything. Just because Naama beat MVP once doesn't make him the better player. OH, and you said that foreigners would rather watch two Koreans than two foreigners... that's just false. Or at least, it is for me and the people I know who watch sc2. Most of us would prefer to watch Foreigners VS Koreans. That's where the fun is. Naama has also played for 2 years. Roro hasn't and MVP wasn't the most current GSL champ, Seed is. Naama is also not very good. Anything can happen in a series, or even in a season. You're acting willfully ignorant to try to hold up your strawman argument. It isn't very convincing.
Well in Brood War, no matter how the players are. Someone who have 2 years of playing professionally will beat someone who just started for a few month in a Bo3 at almost 100% of the time.
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EPT
