[Resolved] Kespa, GOM, ESF dispute - Page 24

On August 26 2012 01:06 mrtomjones wrote:

They WILL side with Gom however they would prefer to not do it openly as they would lose sales of the expansion if they went against the Kespa group.

On August 26 2012 01:04 rebdomine wrote:


The only reason SC2 exists is because Blizz is trying to cash in on e-sports after seeing how well BW did in Korea.

On August 26 2012 00:54 Salazarz wrote:


I don't know if it's 100% because of scheduling conflicts, unfortunately I don't work in KeSPA so I can't say with a hundred percent certainty. What I do know though, is that Proleague and OSL performance is absolutely paramount to KeSPA teams; if entering GSL would reduce their PL or OSL chances by even 5%, they would not enter GSL at this point. You have to try to see things from their side as well - BW fans are mad at them because of the switch, current SC2 'overlords' hate them because of previous bad blood, regardless whos fault it was, they still aren't exactly good friends with Blizzard - and on top of that they are playing a completely new game in an environment where players who are supposed to be gods at the said game are horrible noobs compared to others on the scene.

It's a very dangerous time for KeSPA teams right now, the risk of losing their sponsors is very much real, and unlike foreign / eSF teams, there's no way they would be able to recover if they do risk their sponsors - the infrastructure they run is too extensive and their budgets are way too big to be just replaced on the run.

As for their schedule conflicting with S5 - they have never said anything specific about that. They said they can't enter S4 for sure, and again I believe it's perfectly reasonable; S5 was 'uncertain', and with them having some kind of a new project in the works, + their MLG partnership, shrug, it makes sense they wouldn't want to commit to it so far in advance.

You're right that KeSPA players used to operate under a busier schedule in the past - but that was while playing a game they are super familiar with, maps they know, strategies they have developed - this situation is completely different; they have a massive challenge in front of them, and they absolutely can't afford to fail right now.

On August 26 2012 01:05 Salazarz wrote:


OSL qualifiers were played a long time ago. To me, it seems reasonable KeSPA haven't made a specific statement saying "We won't play in GSL S4" months in advance - chances are, they didn't know that back then themselves.



Being a newcomer on the block, it kind of makes sense for them to be 'sticking together' like that. Especially if you look at eSF's reaction to this. Nevermind that they still have OSL and whatever was the project they are working on, and generally aren't confident about their SC2 playing level yet.

On August 26 2012 01:06 mrtomjones wrote:

They WILL side with Gom however they would prefer to not do it openly as they would lose sales of the expansion if they went against the Kespa group.

On August 26 2012 01:13 pencil_ethics wrote:
To explain all this from a business perspective...

GOMTV Classic: New competing firm (Gretech) on the market, the big CARTEL (KeSPA) with its monopoly in players and $$$ basically decides to force it out of existence. In the business world they would call this anticompetitive and using market power to crush the little players: in fact business cartels are ILLEGAL. And I thought this was frowned upon. Guess not...

Current scenario: Same firm that got forcefully evicted from that other market now is the pioneer in this market. The cartel begs to gain entry and gets it, but tips its hand showing ambitions to use its power to turn the competitor's product into an inferior one to kill the smaller firm AGAIN. Those with an indirect stake in the smaller firm (eSF: note they don't own Gretech) decide to fight the cartel.

Now of course eSF != Gretech (under the current structure I believe Gretech is not represented in eSF), but Ongamenet is much closer to KeSPA (they have a seat on the strategy board at the very least, and its parent CJ is - surprise - a KeSPA member firm). Anyone who has been following the BW scene for a reasonable amount of time knows how much KeSPA has stifled the growth of even the Korean scene by keeping this artificial pro/amateur divide and using this to bully their own players into compliance. Also, KeSPA DID NOT create the Korean BW scene. It started as a grassroots thing from within Internet cafes. Big money came along and decided to swallow it whole. This is in fact a SOCIAL ISSUE in Korea, as the chaebol have far too much leverage over little firms (vertical/horizontal integration, monopsony, $$$, you name it).

tl;dr: Big guy trying to kill little guy. Succeeded once, now clearly trying again. Those with a stake in little guy decide to fight.

Monopolies and cartels are bad. Why is anyone rooting for the big guy here?

On August 26 2012 01:10 setzer wrote:


I might side with KeSPA on this if there wouldn't be only two teams left in Proleague and a potential zero KeSPA players left in OSL by the time GSL S4 actually starts. I don't know what their "big project" is, but it sounded as though it was not happening during this coming season. With the vast majority of players doing nothing but practice, why disallow everyone the opportunity they deserve?

On August 26 2012 01:15 Salazarz wrote:


Except you've got the history part completely wrong, and are making assumptions about current goals of KeSPA based on speculations stemming out of false facts.

On August 26 2012 01:13 pencil_ethics wrote:
To explain all this from a business perspective...

GOMTV Classic: New competing firm (Gretech) on the market, the big CARTEL (KeSPA) with its monopoly in players and $$$ basically decides to force it out of existence. In the business world they would call this anticompetitive and using market power to crush the little players: in fact business cartels are ILLEGAL. And I thought this was frowned upon. Guess not...

Current scenario: Same firm that got forcefully evicted from that other market now is the pioneer in this market. The cartel begs to gain entry and gets it, but tips its hand showing ambitions to use its power to turn the competitor's product into an inferior one to kill the smaller firm AGAIN. Those with an indirect stake in the smaller firm (eSF: note they don't own Gretech) decide to fight the cartel.

Now of course eSF != Gretech (under the current structure I believe Gretech is not represented in eSF), but Ongamenet is much closer to KeSPA (they have a seat on the strategy board at the very least, and its parent CJ is - surprise - a KeSPA member firm). Anyone who has been following the BW scene for a reasonable amount of time knows how much KeSPA has stifled the growth of even the Korean scene by keeping this artificial pro/amateur divide and using this to bully their own players into compliance. Also, KeSPA DID NOT create the Korean BW scene. It started as a grassroots thing from within Internet cafes. Big money came along and decided to swallow it whole. This is in fact a SOCIAL ISSUE in Korea, as the chaebol have far too much leverage over little firms (vertical/horizontal integration, monopsony, $$$, you name it).

tl;dr: Big guy trying to kill little guy. Succeeded once, now clearly trying again. Those with a stake in little guy decide to fight.

Monopolies and cartels are bad. Why is anyone rooting for the big guy here?

On August 26 2012 01:13 pencil_ethics wrote:
To explain all this from a business perspective...

GOMTV Classic: New competing firm (Gretech) on the market, the big CARTEL (KeSPA) with its monopoly in players and $$$ basically decides to force it out of existence. In the business world they would call this anticompetitive and using market power to crush the little players: in fact business cartels are ILLEGAL. And I thought this was frowned upon. Guess not...

Current scenario: Same firm that got forcefully evicted from that other market now is the pioneer in this market. The cartel begs to gain entry and gets it, but tips its hand showing ambitions to use its power to turn the competitor's product into an inferior one to kill the smaller firm AGAIN. Those with an indirect stake in the smaller firm (eSF: note they don't own Gretech) decide to fight the cartel.

Now of course eSF != Gretech (under the current structure I believe Gretech is not represented in eSF), but Ongamenet is much closer to KeSPA (they have a seat on the strategy board at the very least, and its parent CJ is - surprise - a KeSPA member firm). Anyone who has been following the BW scene for a reasonable amount of time knows how much KeSPA has stifled the growth of even the Korean scene by keeping this artificial pro/amateur divide and using this to bully their own players into compliance. Also, KeSPA DID NOT create the Korean BW scene. It started as a grassroots thing from within Internet cafes. Big money came along and decided to swallow it whole. This is in fact a SOCIAL ISSUE in Korea, as the chaebol have far too much leverage over little firms (vertical/horizontal integration, monopsony, $$$, you name it).

tl;dr: Big guy trying to kill little guy. Succeeded once, now clearly trying again. Those with a stake in little guy decide to fight.

Monopolies and cartels are bad. Why is anyone rooting for the big guy here?

On August 26 2012 01:13 pencil_ethics wrote:
To explain all this from a business perspective...

GOMTV Classic: New competing firm (Gretech) on the market, the big CARTEL (KeSPA) with its monopoly in players and $$$ basically decides to force it out of existence. In the business world they would call this anticompetitive and using market power to crush the little players: in fact business cartels are ILLEGAL. And I thought this was frowned upon. Guess not...

Current scenario: Same firm that got forcefully evicted from that other market now is the pioneer in this market. The cartel begs to gain entry and gets it, but tips its hand showing ambitions to use its power to turn the competitor's product into an inferior one to kill the smaller firm AGAIN. Those with an indirect stake in the smaller firm (eSF: note they don't own Gretech) decide to fight the cartel.

Now of course eSF != Gretech (under the current structure I believe Gretech is not represented in eSF), but Ongamenet is much closer to KeSPA (they have a seat on the strategy board at the very least, and its parent CJ is - surprise - a KeSPA member firm). Anyone who has been following the BW scene for a reasonable amount of time knows how much KeSPA has stifled the growth of even the Korean scene by keeping this artificial pro/amateur divide and using this to bully their own players into compliance. Also, KeSPA DID NOT create the Korean BW scene. It started as a grassroots thing from within Internet cafes. Big money came along and decided to swallow it whole. This is in fact a SOCIAL ISSUE in Korea, as the chaebol have far too much leverage over little firms (vertical/horizontal integration, monopsony, $$$, you name it).

tl;dr: Big guy trying to kill little guy. Succeeded once, now clearly trying again. Those with a stake in little guy decide to fight.

Monopolies and cartels are bad. Why is anyone rooting for the big guy here?

On August 26 2012 01:20 6NR wrote:
I think Kespa already announcing the "Big Event" will clear a lot of air. I think this process is necessary because it makes the different and often contending parties align their interests for a common goal. It will be painful, but we have to undergo this.

On August 26 2012 01:16 attackmoveftw wrote:


My dream "Big Project" is either they are secretly planning a HotS beta tournament so the amateur game designers and game balancers at Blizzard won't have to hurt themselves fumbling around in the dark, or they team up with a Korean games dev to make a KeSPa RTS -- a proper competitive RTS, unlike what WoL turned out to be.

On August 26 2012 01:21 attackmoveftw wrote:


So the NFL, NBA, NHL, FIFA, etc are monopolies and cartels too?

On August 26 2012 01:21 attackmoveftw wrote:


So the NFL, NBA, NHL, FIFA, etc are monopolies and cartels too?

On August 26 2012 01:21 attackmoveftw wrote:


So the NFL, NBA, NHL, FIFA, etc are monopolies and cartels too?