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On August 26 2012 00:44 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:42 Frankon wrote:On August 26 2012 00:33 ChrysaliS_ wrote:On August 26 2012 00:25 rebdomine wrote:On August 26 2012 00:18 NHY wrote:On August 25 2012 23:36 rebdomine wrote:
Are people seriously siding on ESF with this?
KesPA might've been jerks by deciding to disallow their players from trying for GSL, but to me ESF look like the bigger assholes by ruiining a tournament that is already going on. KeSPA is trying to screw GSL after ESF joined OSL. This is on KeSPA. How is the GSL screwed? The tournament is still going to proceed well even without the KeSPA players. And at this point, if any of them do qualify, it'd probably be what 3 or 4 players. ESF is ruining a whole tournament by pulling out half the players in it. That seems more like screwing a tournament to me than not letting players play in qualifiers. It's not about this one OSL. I t's a much bigger issue. If KeSPA is allowed to develop a stranglehold on the SC2 scene the way they did in BW, nobody wins, except for KeSPA. It is in both the players' and viewers' best interest for ESF to stand strong here, even if it means sacrificing one tournament. You could argue that sponsors would prefer the KeSPA-Reich model of BW, but GOM and foreign teams have both demonstrated that E-sports sponsorships can be successful without autocracy. Sadly the position of "strangleholder" is already occupied by Blizzard. Kespa will never have the same powers in SC2 as it had in BW. Blizzard can forget to lift a automatic IP ban on too many connections (or use 24h to respond to a request) rendering all the legendary Kespa power useless. Or emergency service maintenance 10 minutes before a tournament start. PS. So you prefer a ESF-Communism model of SC2 (one doesnt suffer alone - we all suffer) to a KeSPA-Reich one ^^ Those analogies... was that necessary...
Yeah they might be a bit inappropriate. But the thought of a american using a Reich analogy just ticked me.
I at least know what i wrote since im old enough to remember the last years of communism in Poland...
On August 26 2012 00:46 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:36 Salazarz wrote:On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? What reason do you have to think otherwise? So you actually believe their reasons for not entering are 100% because of scheduling conflicts? That they would be privy to scheduling information so far in advance they could say there are conflicts with GSL S5 (which apparently now there schedule doesn't conflict with, hmm)? I've posted reasoning behind why their claim of scheduling conflicts is completely bullshit, you can go through my posts to see the lack of logic on KeSPAs part. Fact is, KeSPA players used to operate under a busier Proleague and two individual leagues, very much different from now. With playoffs coming up, many players have nothing to do other than practice or go on vacation. I think it is very naive to believe there is absolutely no political motivation behind the decisions towards GOMTV.
Not political motivation. Just pure economical...
They would look bad for not qualifying for code A (as we all know code A qualifiers are hard... very hard). It would just send the message that they suck. And GOM has the best players.
Keep in mind that Kespa players are still practicing two games (PL isn't over) - it puts them at a rather big disadvantage. Getting their stars easly killed in the qualifiers would be a rather bad mark for the Kespa teams
There is a way out of this situation. Imagine if ESF would publish a statment:
"As the forerunners of korean SC2 we welcome the transiton of Kespa teams into SC2. To commemorate their transition we would take part in the first ever sc2 osl. We would like to invite Kespa player to participate in GSL, the premier international starcraft 2 tournament featuring the best sc2 players. We believe Kespa players would find themself at home while competing in GSL.... "
Sth along the line. Would be hard for Kespa to refuse the invitation to participate in GSL that way.
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On August 26 2012 00:48 ff7legend wrote:
Feels like we are trying to desegregate the gaming world or something similar.
Hah. Feels more like the SC2 Cold War to me.
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On August 26 2012 00:48 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? at least they provided reasons, not acting a dick and pulling out in the middle of the league which is set to commerce in two days? dont get me wrong kids, I dont side with anyone. In this market share battle, GOM/ESF has been showing loopholes, KeSPA capitalized on that, so GOM/ESF gone apeshit. Imo this move is too provocative and it would end up with KeSPA doing something just as crazy. Who will bite the dust in the end? Who would Blizz stick with? An online broadcaster who failed to capture the domestic audience in two years, or , a ministry-tied organization with ten years in the business and a national cable channel? You choose. and ffs dont include those "foreigner" or "esport" nonsense yo. Whoever gets more Korean viewership wins. Think any of the two parties give a fuck about these terms?
Blizzard will side with GOM. They sponsor the GSL and Kespa has been fighting Blizzard many times.
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On August 26 2012 00:46 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:36 Salazarz wrote:On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? What reason do you have to think otherwise? So you actually believe their reasons for not entering are 100% because of scheduling conflicts? That they would be privy to scheduling information so far in advance they could say there are conflicts with GSL S5 (which apparently now there schedule doesn't conflict with, hmm)? I've posted reasoning behind why their claim of scheduling conflicts is completely bullshit, you can go through my posts to see the lack of logic on KeSPAs part. Fact is, KeSPA players used to operate under a busier Proleague and two individual leagues, very much different from now. With playoffs coming up, many players have nothing to do other than practice or go on vacation. I think it is very naive to believe there is absolutely no political motivation behind the decisions towards GOMTV.
I don't know if it's 100% because of scheduling conflicts, unfortunately I don't work in KeSPA so I can't say with a hundred percent certainty. What I do know though, is that Proleague and OSL performance is absolutely paramount to KeSPA teams; if entering GSL would reduce their PL or OSL chances by even 5%, they would not enter GSL at this point. You have to try to see things from their side as well - BW fans are mad at them because of the switch, current SC2 'overlords' hate them because of previous bad blood, regardless whos fault it was, they still aren't exactly good friends with Blizzard - and on top of that they are playing a completely new game in an environment where players who are supposed to be gods at the said game are horrible noobs compared to others on the scene.
It's a very dangerous time for KeSPA teams right now, the risk of losing their sponsors is very much real, and unlike foreign / eSF teams, there's no way they would be able to recover if they do risk their sponsors - the infrastructure they run is too extensive and their budgets are way too big to be just replaced on the run.
As for their schedule conflicting with S5 - they have never said anything specific about that. They said they can't enter S4 for sure, and again I believe it's perfectly reasonable; S5 was 'uncertain', and with them having some kind of a new project in the works, + their MLG partnership, shrug, it makes sense they wouldn't want to commit to it so far in advance.
You're right that KeSPA players used to operate under a busier schedule in the past - but that was while playing a game they are super familiar with, maps they know, strategies they have developed - this situation is completely different; they have a massive challenge in front of them, and they absolutely can't afford to fail right now.
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On August 26 2012 00:52 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:48 Arceus wrote:On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? at least they provided reasons, not acting a dick and pulling out in the middle of the league which is set to commerce in two days? dont get me wrong kids, I dont side with anyone. In this market share battle, GOM/ESF has been showing loopholes, KeSPA capitalized on that, so GOM/ESF gone apeshit. Imo this move is too provocative and it would end up with KeSPA doing something just as crazy. Who will bite the dust in the end? Who would Blizz stick with? An online broadcaster who failed to capture the domestic audience in two years, or , a ministry-tied organization with ten years in the business and a national cable channel? You choose. and ffs dont include those "foreigner" or "esport" nonsense yo. Whoever gets more Korean viewership wins. Think any of the two parties give a fuck about these terms? Blizzard will side with GOM. They sponsor the GSL and Kespa has been fighting Blizzard many times.
I would say neither. Blizz wants to keep both of their powers in check, so they can leverage out of it. However, if KeSPA plays really badly, Blizz will side with GOM.
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http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/features/3006
KeSPA, GOM Classic, and the Future
This has been a day long in the coming. Those who predicted KeSPA, GOM and Blizzard might once again be tangled in the messy affairs of the past were right. Even though there has been willingness from all sides to make things work, the entire venture may still fail, and recent events show us exactly why. However, what makes this such a delicate event, perhaps even a watershed moment, is not really a potential misunderstanding - an unfortunate misalignment of schedules, as has been claimed - but something that happened several years ago, when GOM were running a series of tournaments for Brood War.
There were two major Brood War individual leagues at the time: the MBCGame Starleague and the OnGameNet Starleague, organized and broadcasted by respective gaming channels MBCGame and OnGameNet, both of which were affiliated with KeSPA itself. In 2008 a third major tournament came along in the GOMTV Classic. The first two seasons of the GOM Classic went by without much issue, but problems arose in the third, when several teams withdrew their support, citing overwork and scheduling issues. This is simultaneous with Blizzard Entertainment directly sponsoring GOM’s Season 3. After Season 3, in spite of favorable reception, all KeSPA teams withdrew from the tournament, leaving GOM with no choice but to shut down the competition.
The exact goings on are unknown and likely to remain so, but we can take a pretty good guess. We know, for instance, that Blizzard and KeSPA had not solved their dispute over broadcasting rights. As far as the Koreans were concerned, this foreign company was muscling in on a business, industry and culture they had built from the ground up. From Blizzard’s point of view, they were they only taking what was rightfully - legally - theirs. No headway was made, and KeSPA continued operating in essentially the same way until a deal involving Starcraft 2 was finally struck in 2011.
Years before that happened, however, in 2008, Blizzard put their foot forward with GOM. GOM are a streaming service and a broadcasting channel in their own right, one with a larger following than, say, those interested in Starcraft. Critically, they were not, like MBCGame and OnGameNet, intimately involved with the Korean overlord. Moreover, they had a contract with Blizzard. This placed them in an awkward position, for which they paid the price later on. For one, they were not willing to comply with KeSPA in every way. Secondly, they were in a sense the legitimate representatives of Blizzard. Thirdly, they were successful, which meant that a third, insubordinate tournament might draw viewers away from MBCGame and OnGameNet. They were competition, and not just in the field of Brood War, but in the upcoming Starcraft 2 market as well.
Officially KeSPA didn’t do anything. Its teams simply withdrew, but given the context we’ve built up so far we can hazard a guess and say that KeSPA asked, bullied, persuaded or ordered its teams to abandon GOM Classic. In doing so it didn’t just starve an upstart, it destroyed a competitor and reasserted control of its monopoly, in much the same way large companies suffocate small and middle sized enterprises. By all intents and purposes this was a punitive action, but it was more than just a slap across the wrist. It was KeSPA shrugging off this other, running them into ground, because they could, because this would-be partner was not convenient, because they were met with non-compliance. Whatever KeSPA were looking for was a blatant act of extortion, and what followed the debacle proved that it was. GOM Classic became history, closing in 2009, the players lost a major tournament, and the viewers enjoyed less entertainment. KeSPA’s image itself should have suffered; instead business continued as usual, and the management was appeased. Journalists and viewers alike ate it up.
There was something else about GOM that pulled it apart from KeSPA: their focus on the international viewership. Arguably the first Korean organization to seriously market their product towards a foreign audience, they enlisted the likes of Tasteless and SuperDanielMan for their casting talents, showing not just remarkable foresight (Starcraft 2 was just around the corner) but a distinct vision for the future, which was lacking in a locally centered market. Although GOM Classic failed, this ideal remained, and when GSL came into being in 2010, it included an invitation for all foreign players, special seeding, and even a “foreign team” practice house.
With Starcraft 2’s release there was the question of new tournaments and perhaps new organizations. Blizzard reached out to KeSPA once again, with few results, and, again, it was GOM who got the rights. As new teams were formed and the GSL developed, however, we still couldn’t help but look at the Brood War pros whom we knew must one day leave their game behind. With Brood War destined to decline, the end of an age was at hand.
Somehow Starcraft 2’s arrival was in the nick of time, when streaming services and widespread gaming created not only a culture but an infrastructure for a new level of competition and a new way to experience and participate in it. That wasn’t all: initiating potential fans was as easy as a youtube link, and the game’s expert design made it a terrific viewing experience even for those who never played the game. Blizzard marketed Wings of Liberty in expert fashion, shoutcasters made it more approachable, tournament organizers made it spectacular, other media helped make it a community event. The fans loved it. We presume they still do.
GSL’s continuing success is the product of this complex relationship, but that is a simple and obvious statement. What GOM really accomplished was creating a foreign market for Korean players - viewer wise and team wise. ESF players readily participate in foreign tournaments and regularly seek recruitment from foreign teams for the opportunities they provide. We must never underestimate the value of a large and varied tournament scene. The panorama we now enjoy, that of a slew of international events, large and small, is a vibrant picture. We encounter new great players all the time, creating an atmosphere that is both dynamic and surprising. If the only platform for self-assertion were Code A, we would be poor eSports citizens indeed. GSL may be the most prestigious tournament on the planet, but it is a very poor trampoline for the aspiring. One does not, after all, break into gymnastics at the Olympics.
But this is all irrelevant for KeSPA. For virtually all of their history, they owned their market, and it shows. If the western level of competition once again dropped, and the vine slowly withered, they would be content to let the dying die while cultivating their own backyard. They’ve nothing to lose in Korea, since they own it all, and the problem is, that’s fine with them. This is why GOM and the ESF are so important. They have the head start, they laid groundwork, and they’re willing to give us what we want. But KeSPA still have all the leveraging power, they have all the stars - the big ones - and they know it. Pulling them from the GSL with any excuse, whether genuine or pretext, still makes a point, and is a chilling reminder of what happened to GOM Classic.
It’s not surprising that ESF responded in the same way. The big guy on the playground won’t share his lunch money but still expects you to chip in. The players are the resources here, and as long as KeSPA can have both organizations’ star power there is no need for them to surrender viewers to GOM. In a conciliatory gesture, KeSPA’s players were pledged for GSL Season 5, but then again until a few days ago we similarly expected them to participate in Season 4. Now there is no participation, and the relationship becomes a little more frayed.
Even so, it may be the case that KeSPA is discovering they have less leverage than they might expect. MBCGame became MBC Music in February 2012, leaving the OSL as their remaining individual league. The hype their players accumulated may start to dwindle as they face up to the veterans, and the potential foreign viewers may be less than impressed with the names Flash, Jaedong and Bisu. Indeed, they may not even ring a bell.
This might appall the Brood War enthusiast, but the truth is the end goal for any eSports brand is to make them an insignificant minority. The larger public has never seen or played or Brood War, but they may yet practice Wings of Liberty. They come in fresh, with only what they see to guide them. It might sadden some people that it won’t be Flash, but Husky, to draw these new souls in. This is what ultimately may spur KeSPA to cooperation. What happens once its teams have established themselves as well known brands in the west, however, will be an entirely different discussion.
Like governments, eSports associations also have their own constituencies. As long as their viewers follow meekly along with their plans, they’ll be reduced to a consumer-provider relationship in which they have no say. Organizations like NASL and casters such as Tastosis frequently stress the importance of sponsors. Most importantly, they stress feedback and the very real effect it can have. This has lead some viewers to become more aware of their role in this transaction, so much so that the “concerned viewer” has become even somewhat of a joke. Yet it may come to this. As KeSPA becomes more involved with Starcraft 2, there may be a time when we, the viewers, may have to say enough.
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On August 26 2012 00:52 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:48 Arceus wrote:On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? at least they provided reasons, not acting a dick and pulling out in the middle of the league which is set to commerce in two days? dont get me wrong kids, I dont side with anyone. In this market share battle, GOM/ESF has been showing loopholes, KeSPA capitalized on that, so GOM/ESF gone apeshit. Imo this move is too provocative and it would end up with KeSPA doing something just as crazy. Who will bite the dust in the end? Who would Blizz stick with? An online broadcaster who failed to capture the domestic audience in two years, or , a ministry-tied organization with ten years in the business and a national cable channel? You choose. and ffs dont include those "foreigner" or "esport" nonsense yo. Whoever gets more Korean viewership wins. Think any of the two parties give a fuck about these terms? Blizzard will side with GOM. They sponsor the GSL and Kespa has been fighting Blizzard many times.
yeah its 100% blizz would stay on gom side since blizz has their ears and their pockets 
Also the previous poster to who i quoted doesnt really understand that the foreign scene is a safer scene at the moment..?
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On August 26 2012 00:54 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:46 setzer wrote:On August 26 2012 00:36 Salazarz wrote:On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? What reason do you have to think otherwise? So you actually believe their reasons for not entering are 100% because of scheduling conflicts? That they would be privy to scheduling information so far in advance they could say there are conflicts with GSL S5 (which apparently now there schedule doesn't conflict with, hmm)? I've posted reasoning behind why their claim of scheduling conflicts is completely bullshit, you can go through my posts to see the lack of logic on KeSPAs part. Fact is, KeSPA players used to operate under a busier Proleague and two individual leagues, very much different from now. With playoffs coming up, many players have nothing to do other than practice or go on vacation. I think it is very naive to believe there is absolutely no political motivation behind the decisions towards GOMTV. I don't know if it's 100% because of scheduling conflicts, unfortunately I don't work in KeSPA so I can't say with a hundred percent certainty. What I do know though, is that Proleague and OSL performance is absolutely paramount to KeSPA teams; if entering GSL would reduce their PL or OSL chances by even 5%, they would not enter GSL at this point. You have to try to see things from their side as well - BW fans are mad at them because of the switch, current SC2 'overlords' hate them because of previous bad blood, regardless whos fault it was, they still aren't exactly good friends with Blizzard - and on top of that they are playing a completely new game in an environment where players who are supposed to be gods at the said game are horrible noobs compared to others on the scene. It's a very dangerous time for KeSPA teams right now, the risk of losing their sponsors is very much real, and unlike foreign / eSF teams, there's no way they would be able to recover if they do risk their sponsors - the infrastructure they run is too extensive and their budgets are way too big to be just replaced on the run. As for their schedule conflicting with S5 - they have never said anything specific about that. They said they can't enter S4 for sure, and again I believe it's perfectly reasonable; S5 was 'uncertain', and with them having some kind of a new project in the works, + their MLG partnership, shrug, it makes sense they wouldn't want to commit to it so far in advance. You're right that KeSPA players used to operate under a busier schedule in the past - but that was while playing a game they are super familiar with, maps they know, strategies they have developed - this situation is completely different; they have a massive challenge in front of them, and they absolutely can't afford to fail right now.
If Kespa announced everything earlier the esf players wouldn't have gone to the osl qualifiers and Kespa could have stayed separated from the rest of the SC2 scene as long as they want without trouble or beeing critizized.
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On August 26 2012 00:54 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:46 setzer wrote:On August 26 2012 00:36 Salazarz wrote:On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? What reason do you have to think otherwise? So you actually believe their reasons for not entering are 100% because of scheduling conflicts? That they would be privy to scheduling information so far in advance they could say there are conflicts with GSL S5 (which apparently now there schedule doesn't conflict with, hmm)? I've posted reasoning behind why their claim of scheduling conflicts is completely bullshit, you can go through my posts to see the lack of logic on KeSPAs part. Fact is, KeSPA players used to operate under a busier Proleague and two individual leagues, very much different from now. With playoffs coming up, many players have nothing to do other than practice or go on vacation. I think it is very naive to believe there is absolutely no political motivation behind the decisions towards GOMTV. I don't know if it's 100% because of scheduling conflicts, unfortunately I don't work in KeSPA so I can't say with a hundred percent certainty. What I do know though, is that Proleague and OSL performance is absolutely paramount to KeSPA teams; if entering GSL would reduce their PL or OSL chances by even 5%, they would not enter GSL at this point. You have to try to see things from their side as well - BW fans are mad at them because of the switch, current SC2 'overlords' hate them because of previous bad blood, regardless whos fault it was, they still aren't exactly good friends with Blizzard - and on top of that they are playing a completely new game in an environment where players who are supposed to be gods at the said game are horrible noobs compared to others on the scene. It's a very dangerous time for KeSPA teams right now, the risk of losing their sponsors is very much real, and unlike foreign / eSF teams, there's no way they would be able to recover if they do risk their sponsors - the infrastructure they run is too extensive and their budgets are way too big to be just replaced on the run. As for their schedule conflicting with S5 - they have never said anything specific about that. They said they can't enter S4 for sure, and again I believe it's perfectly reasonable; S5 was 'uncertain', and with them having some kind of a new project in the works, + their MLG partnership, shrug, it makes sense they wouldn't want to commit to it so far in advance. You're right that KeSPA players used to operate under a busier schedule in the past - but that was while playing a game they are super familiar with, maps they know, strategies they have developed - this situation is completely different; they have a massive challenge in front of them, and they absolutely can't afford to fail right now.
While yes they wouldn't enter GSL if it hindered their chances for PL, not everyone goes to the playoffs and teams are eliminated yet KeSPA has said no one can go despite having players being able to attend GSL.
KeSPA publicly announced that they will work with and cooperate continuously with GOM. So why aren't they?
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On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'. Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch
Uh...
The Korean professional Broodwar scene was a massive boon to SC2 competition. Your stars were trained under the Kespa system.
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On August 26 2012 00:50 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:44 attackmoveftw wrote:On August 26 2012 00:33 ChrysaliS_ wrote:On August 26 2012 00:25 rebdomine wrote:On August 26 2012 00:18 NHY wrote:On August 25 2012 23:36 rebdomine wrote:
Are people seriously siding on ESF with this?
KesPA might've been jerks by deciding to disallow their players from trying for GSL, but to me ESF look like the bigger assholes by ruiining a tournament that is already going on. KeSPA is trying to screw GSL after ESF joined OSL. This is on KeSPA. How is the GSL screwed? The tournament is still going to proceed well even without the KeSPA players. And at this point, if any of them do qualify, it'd probably be what 3 or 4 players. ESF is ruining a whole tournament by pulling out half the players in it. That seems more like screwing a tournament to me than not letting players play in qualifiers. It's not about this one OSL. It's a much bigger issue. If KeSPA is allowed to develop a stranglehold on the SC2 scene the way they did in BW, nobody wins, except for KeSPA. It is in both the players' and viewers' best interest for ESF to stand strong here, even if it means sacrificing one tournament. You could argue that sponsors would prefer the KeSPA-Reich model of BW, but GOM and foreign teams have both demonstrated that E-sports sponsorships can be successful without autocracy. You mean like the once vibrant COD4 scene that died once Activision started cranking out endless iterations of COD, each more dumbed down and casual than the previous? Yeah, I think an Blizzard-Activision-Reich model will be great for Starcraft. Btw, I think we just hit the Goddard point.  rofl, as if the CoD ripoff was ever as good as the other shooters it stole all of its ideas from (primarily DoD)..
You played DoD? I loved 1.3 (I think I started around 1.0b) but hate what they did with Source. Same problem of dumbing down to get more casuals like in BW vs SC2 and COD. HotS looks even worse than WoL and I hate to see what'll be in LotV.
Will be funny after Blizzard ditches SC2 for SC3 in a few yrs. It would make the boring colossuscraft we have now look like UFC. I bet all the people taking eSF's side now will wish they had someone like KeSPA then.
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On August 26 2012 00:57 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'. Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch Uh... The Korean professional Broodwar scene was a massive boon to SC2 competition. Your stars were trained under the Kespa system.
Trained so well that an article was written about them in fact!
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On August 26 2012 00:48 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? at least they provided reasons, not acting a dick and pulling out in the middle of the league which is set to commerce in two days? dont get me wrong kids, I dont side with anyone. In this market share battle, GOM/ESF has been showing loopholes, KeSPA capitalized on that, so GOM/ESF gone apeshit. Imo this move is too provocative and it would end up with KeSPA doing something just as crazy. Who will bite the dust in the end? Who would Blizz stick with? An online broadcaster who failed to capture the domestic audience in two years, or , a ministry-tied organization with ten years in the business and a national cable channel? You choose. and ffs dont include those "foreigner" or "esport" nonsense yo. Whoever gets more Korean viewership wins. Think any of the two parties give a fuck about these terms?
I think you missed the point..they (blizzard, Kespa/OGN, ESF/GOM) agreed to play together and cooperate. Kespa is not living up to it, so ESF has no choice but to take drastic measures, especially given past history.
If Kespa had intentions to create another monopoly (in essence) then they shouldn't have said to the contrary.
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On August 26 2012 00:57 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'. Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch Uh... The Korean professional Broodwar scene was a massive boon to SC2 competition. Your stars were trained under the Kespa system.
A part of the korean stars made their first steps under Kespa. Foreign players mostly had nothing to do with Kespa. Also the korean players do not all have long histories under Kespa, you can easily see that by how young many of the stars are (and SC2 is out since two years, Taeja is 17 I think).
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On August 26 2012 01:01 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:57 Severedevil wrote:On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'. Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch Uh... The Korean professional Broodwar scene was a massive boon to SC2 competition. Your stars were trained under the Kespa system. A part of the korean stars made their first steps under Kespa. Foreign players mostly had nothing to do with Kespa. Also the korean players do not all have long histories under Kespa, you can easily see that by how young many of the stars are (and SC2 is out since two years, Taeja is 17 I think).
The only reason SC2 exists is because Blizz is trying to cash in on e-sports after seeing how well BW did in Korea.
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On August 26 2012 01:01 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:57 Severedevil wrote:On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'. Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch Uh... The Korean professional Broodwar scene was a massive boon to SC2 competition. Your stars were trained under the Kespa system. Trained so well that an article was written about them in fact!
Trained so well that mediocre by Kespa standards is world-class by ESF standards.
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On August 26 2012 01:01 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:57 Severedevil wrote:On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'. Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch Uh... The Korean professional Broodwar scene was a massive boon to SC2 competition. Your stars were trained under the Kespa system. A part of the korean stars made their first steps under Kespa. Foreign players mostly had nothing to do with Kespa. Also the korean players do not all have long histories under Kespa, you can easily see that by how young many of the stars are (and SC2 is out since two years, Taeja is 17 I think).
Actually the 16 year old creator was an absolute dishwasher in the team houses!
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If Kespa announced everything earlier the esf players wouldn't have gone to the osl qualifiers and Kespa could have stayed separated from the rest of the SC2 scene as long as they want without trouble or beeing critizized.
OSL qualifiers were played a long time ago. To me, it seems reasonable KeSPA haven't made a specific statement saying "We won't play in GSL S4" months in advance - chances are, they didn't know that back then themselves.
While yes they wouldn't enter GSL if it hindered their chances for PL, not everyone goes to the playoffs and teams are eliminated yet KeSPA has said no one can go despite having players being able to attend GSL.
KeSPA publicly announced that they will work with and cooperate continuously with GOM. So why aren't they?
Being a newcomer on the block, it kind of makes sense for them to be 'sticking together' like that. Especially if you look at eSF's reaction to this. Nevermind that they still have OSL and whatever was the project they are working on, and generally aren't confident about their SC2 playing level yet.
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On August 26 2012 01:04 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 01:01 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 00:57 Severedevil wrote:On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'. Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch Uh... The Korean professional Broodwar scene was a massive boon to SC2 competition. Your stars were trained under the Kespa system. Trained so well that an article was written about them in fact! Trained so well that mediocre by Kespa standards is world-class by ESF standards.
The article shit on the skill level of professional sc2 at its release, and the skill difference now is massive. That says a lot about what the training did and how much should be attributed to kespa.
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On August 26 2012 00:52 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 00:48 Arceus wrote:On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really? at least they provided reasons, not acting a dick and pulling out in the middle of the league which is set to commerce in two days? dont get me wrong kids, I dont side with anyone. In this market share battle, GOM/ESF has been showing loopholes, KeSPA capitalized on that, so GOM/ESF gone apeshit. Imo this move is too provocative and it would end up with KeSPA doing something just as crazy. Who will bite the dust in the end? Who would Blizz stick with? An online broadcaster who failed to capture the domestic audience in two years, or , a ministry-tied organization with ten years in the business and a national cable channel? You choose. and ffs dont include those "foreigner" or "esport" nonsense yo. Whoever gets more Korean viewership wins. Think any of the two parties give a fuck about these terms? Blizzard will side with GOM. They sponsor the GSL and Kespa has been fighting Blizzard many times.
They WILL side with Gom however they would prefer to not do it openly as they would lose sales of the expansion if they went against the Kespa group.
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EPT
