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[Resolved] Kespa, GOM, ESF dispute - Page 22

Forum Index > SC2 General
2275 CommentsPost a Reply
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Prplppleatr
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1518 Posts
August 25 2012 15:39 GMT
#421
YAYY!! Good for ESF...no one can fool the nestea!
🥇 Prediction Contest - Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Sandermatt
Profile Joined December 2010
Switzerland1365 Posts
August 25 2012 15:40 GMT
#422
On August 26 2012 00:36 Drowsy wrote:
Wouldn't it be awesome if Kespa and ESF were just dismantled and there was no retarded governing body which controls whether or not players can participate in any given leagues and was at the discretion of each individual player and his team?


We can only dream...

Like seriously, can't the leagues just set to rules as far as pausing/chatting/disqualification? There's like no reason for a governing body.


Well, esf has not done anything before that. Their only purpose seems to be exactly that: No control over the players.
If an esf player would join OSL anyway, nobody would punish him.
Quarz
Profile Joined November 2010
448 Posts
August 25 2012 15:40 GMT
#423
On August 26 2012 00:19 Femari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:16 rebdomine wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:10 Mithriel wrote:
I'll side with esf for the entire thing! They did so much for sc2 in Korea and outside Korea! Happy they fight against kespa who just wants to step in and rule the sc2 scene. Fuck them


yeah fuck them. fuck the association that is the reason why we even have korean esports.

So what?

That doesn't mean they should be able to waltz in and dictate everything in the scene. Hell they shouldn't even be dictating what their players can play in.


Your employer should dictate what you work for. He simply should send you their money. Anyway if Kespa Player has problems is up to them to build up an player union. The ESF doesn't represent their interests. If Stork talks about he should maybe talk with other big famous player and do the player union.

It like if CR7 says to RM, hey i wanna play in the premier legue next week, screw you RM.
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
August 25 2012 15:41 GMT
#424
On August 26 2012 00:39 attackmoveftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:36 Drowsy wrote:
Wouldn't it be awesome if Kespa and ESF were just dismantled and there was no retarded governing body which controls whether or not players can participate in any given leagues and was at the discretion of each individual player and his team?


We can only dream...

Like seriously, can't the leagues just set to rules as far as pausing/chatting/disqualification? There's like no reason for a governing body.


Yea and let Blizzard run amok.

ESF is necessary. In fact I hope KeSPA teams will join ESF and form a united player's union. They need to fight for their conditions.
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
August 25 2012 15:42 GMT
#425
On August 26 2012 00:33 ChrysaliS_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:25 rebdomine wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:18 NHY wrote:
On August 25 2012 23:36 rebdomine wrote:
Are people seriously siding on ESF with this?

KesPA might've been jerks by deciding to disallow their players from trying for GSL, but to me ESF look like the bigger assholes by ruiining a tournament that is already going on.


KeSPA is trying to screw GSL after ESF joined OSL. This is on KeSPA.


How is the GSL screwed? The tournament is still going to proceed well even without the KeSPA players. And at this point, if any of them do qualify, it'd probably be what 3 or 4 players.

ESF is ruining a whole tournament by pulling out half the players in it. That seems more like screwing a tournament to me than not letting players play in qualifiers.


It's not about this one OSL. It's a much bigger issue. If KeSPA is allowed to develop a stranglehold on the SC2 scene the way they did in BW, nobody wins, except for KeSPA. It is in both the players' and viewers' best interest for ESF to stand strong here, even if it means sacrificing one tournament. You could argue that sponsors would prefer the KeSPA-Reich model of BW, but GOM and foreign teams have both demonstrated that E-sports sponsorships can be successful without autocracy.

Sadly the position of "strangleholder" is already occupied by Blizzard. Kespa will never have the same powers in SC2 as it had in BW. Blizzard can forget to lift a automatic IP ban on too many connections (or use 24h to respond to a request) rendering all the legendary Kespa power useless. Or emergency service maintenance 10 minutes before a tournament start.

PS. So you prefer a ESF-Communism model of SC2 (one doesnt suffer alone - we all suffer) to a KeSPA-Reich one ^^
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
August 25 2012 15:43 GMT
#426
On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'.

I not only glanced through you post, I actually read all of it
And judging by the way you were arguing against GomTV Classic, that they intruded a healthy established scene and tried to rob it, you should actually side with eSF right now, because, you know, Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch, and the scene is perfectly healthy without them. Same train of thought - they are the intruders here that want a piece of the pie.
(Disclaimer: I know it is not exactly the same situation and that SC2 scene in Korea would profit greatly from it, yet it is still similar enough to echo this kind of argumentation).
Oh and the same that goes for Kespa and OGN not being the same thing goes for eSF and GOM as well, they are not the same thing. So you shouldn't blame GOM/Mr.Chae for anything here...
I still hope that they settle it peacefully, but Kespa needs to realize that they do not have the same kind of leverage that they used to have in BW and that they cannot establish a monopoly again like they seem to be trying.
Get off my lawn, young punks
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
August 25 2012 15:44 GMT
#427
On August 26 2012 00:42 Frankon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:33 ChrysaliS_ wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:25 rebdomine wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:18 NHY wrote:
On August 25 2012 23:36 rebdomine wrote:
Are people seriously siding on ESF with this?

KesPA might've been jerks by deciding to disallow their players from trying for GSL, but to me ESF look like the bigger assholes by ruiining a tournament that is already going on.


KeSPA is trying to screw GSL after ESF joined OSL. This is on KeSPA.


How is the GSL screwed? The tournament is still going to proceed well even without the KeSPA players. And at this point, if any of them do qualify, it'd probably be what 3 or 4 players.

ESF is ruining a whole tournament by pulling out half the players in it. That seems more like screwing a tournament to me than not letting players play in qualifiers.


It's not about this one OSL. It's a much bigger issue. If KeSPA is allowed to develop a stranglehold on the SC2 scene the way they did in BW, nobody wins, except for KeSPA. It is in both the players' and viewers' best interest for ESF to stand strong here, even if it means sacrificing one tournament. You could argue that sponsors would prefer the KeSPA-Reich model of BW, but GOM and foreign teams have both demonstrated that E-sports sponsorships can be successful without autocracy.

Sadly the position of "strangleholder" is already occupied by Blizzard. Kespa will never have the same powers in SC2 as it had in BW. Blizzard can forget to lift a automatic IP ban on too many connections (or use 24h to respond to a request) rendering all the legendary Kespa power useless. Or emergency service maintenance 10 minutes before a tournament start.

PS. So you prefer a ESF-Communism model of SC2 (one doesnt suffer alone - we all suffer) to a KeSPA-Reich one ^^


Those analogies... was that necessary...
MMA: The true King of Wings
attackmoveftw
Profile Joined August 2012
45 Posts
August 25 2012 15:44 GMT
#428
On August 26 2012 00:33 ChrysaliS_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:25 rebdomine wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:18 NHY wrote:
On August 25 2012 23:36 rebdomine wrote:
Are people seriously siding on ESF with this?

KesPA might've been jerks by deciding to disallow their players from trying for GSL, but to me ESF look like the bigger assholes by ruiining a tournament that is already going on.


KeSPA is trying to screw GSL after ESF joined OSL. This is on KeSPA.


How is the GSL screwed? The tournament is still going to proceed well even without the KeSPA players. And at this point, if any of them do qualify, it'd probably be what 3 or 4 players.

ESF is ruining a whole tournament by pulling out half the players in it. That seems more like screwing a tournament to me than not letting players play in qualifiers.


It's not about this one OSL. It's a much bigger issue. If KeSPA is allowed to develop a stranglehold on the SC2 scene the way they did in BW, nobody wins, except for KeSPA. It is in both the players' and viewers' best interest for ESF to stand strong here, even if it means sacrificing one tournament. You could argue that sponsors would prefer the KeSPA-Reich model of BW, but GOM and foreign teams have both demonstrated that E-sports sponsorships can be successful without autocracy.


You mean like the once vibrant COD4 scene that died once Activision started cranking out endless iterations of COD, each more dumbed down and casual than the previous? Yeah, I think an Blizzard-Activision-Reich model will be great for Starcraft.

Btw, I think we just hit the Goddard point.
xBillehx
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1289 Posts
August 25 2012 15:44 GMT
#429
On August 26 2012 00:36 Salazarz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla

nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really?


What reason do you have to think otherwise?

Idk, maybe the completely empty schedule loads of players have for the next 3 months. I mean really, if Flash were to fall from the Ro16 (assuming ESF players play) what in the world would he, or rather the entire KT team, do for the next few months? They've got nothing. No PL, no OSL, nothing. Maybe some supposed MLG online matches?
Taengoo ♥
Salazarz
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Korea (South)2591 Posts
August 25 2012 15:45 GMT
#430
On August 26 2012 00:38 MrCon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
Here's a few major points people in this debate seem to be missing.

About KeSPA "killing off" GomTV during Broodwar:

That side of the story is basically completely made up by GomTV who were upset they couldn't get in on the revenues created by KeSPA, and the foreign fans hated on KeSPA over it because Gom did have English casters - something KeSPA did not.

+ Show Spoiler +
During the period of time leading up to last Gom Classic season, the competition between KeSPA teams was at it's peak, it was definitely the era of biggest storylines and rivalries, and the pressure on every single player of KeSPA teams was ridiculous. That was also the time where individual players and coaches (NOT "evil men in suits from KeSPA") continually complained about having to play too many games every week, and not having enough prep time for the key leagues. It was also the time where coaches of several teams (again, NOT "evil men in suits from KeSPA") decided to prohibit their players from entering both MSL and OSL at the same time. In fact, quite a few players were not allowed to even participate in the preliminaries of individual leagues as they were needed to help the stars practice for their PL matches. It was not tyranny - it was what allowed KeSPA teams to show us the greatest games of Broodwar ever played. It's what made them so good.

Enter Gom Classic league. You have players struggling with their already existing work-load, suddenly a new league attempts to enter the scene. Is it reasonable to expect players who already struggle with their schedule to be excited about it? Bear in mind that for the most likely candidates to win the top prizes, the tournament prizes aren't even the main part of their paycheck - their salaries are much higher than what winning a first place in the tournament is. It was a very bad time for GomTV to push their league in; also, they were basically trying to make money off a scene KeSPA had created from scratch, with no involvement of GomTV prior to that. It was Proleague, OSL and MSL who popularized the teams and players; it was KeSPA who created the fanbase and the infrastructure to support it. Gom literally just walked in and expected a slice of the pie, then got mad because it didn't work out that way. The complaints from Mr. Chae or anyone else on GomTV staff about "KeSPA having done this before" is 100% bitter nonsense, and you really shouldn't take them for granted.


About KeSPA not entering GSL4 etc:

It was never announced anywhere that KeSPA players will participate in the upcoming GSL season. Players did say in their interviews that they'd like to participate as soon as it's possible, KeSPA themselves said more than once that they are looking forward to integrating with the existing SC2 scene - but there were no concrete dates or tournaments named. Time and time again they have stated that Proleague is the most important thing for them, that the teams are still in transitional period and aren't feeling very confident about their abilities in SC2, that they need more time to adjust.

WCS is a very special tournament created by Blizzard. It was planned for quite a long time, and KeSPA were aware from the get-go that they are expected to participate both in the open qualifier for it, and through KeSPA seeded invites. They play in this tournament.

OSL is a tournament ran by OnGameNet (NOT KeSPA, it is a long-time partner of KeSPA but it's NOT the same thing, and it's NOT ran by the same people - their relationship is at most as close as that of GomTV and eSF, and they had their conflicts in the past). It was announced a veeeeeery long time in advance, back in April if I remember correctly? and both KeSPA and eSF players were invited to participate in it. Back then, there was very little (if any at all) communication between KeSPA and GomTV as to KeSPA's participation in GSL; eSF players accepted the invitation to participate in OSL unconditionally.

Most recently, GSL season 4 Code A qualifiers are announced. Literally a day after that announcement, KeSPA comes forward saying they are not feeling ready and their schedule can't accommodate participation in GSL due to PL and OSL commitments, as well as the whole transition thing. TL explodes with 'omg KeSPA powerplaying!' nonsense. We all know what happened next.

I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'.


Also, to people saying KeSPA always 'fucked' with international esports - please check out earlier posts in this thread. That's really not true at all, if anything, it was Blizzard and ineptness of other tournament organizers who made sure foreign scene remained stagnant and virtually inexistant in the past. Also, the only reason KeSPA didn't do anything for SC2 so far, and didn't bring that game on board on launch was due to Blizzard's refusal to cooperate with them.

edit: if anyone here thinks I'm a blind fanboy or whatever, it's easy enough to find TL posts, interviews, articles that will fully confirm what I said here. The truth is, the whole 'evil treacherous past of KeSPA' is massively exaggerated, and there really isn't much reason to believe that KeSPA is 'out to fuck with everyone' - not any more so than to believe that GomTV and eSF is trying to do the same, anyway.

Your 2nd paragraph of the spoilered section is a good description of what is currently happening with reversed roles xD

That's true kespa never officially said they'd participate in GSL4. But they made everything to pretend they'd do it, without saying it.

What I don't understand is the "but kespa made sports possible !" argument. Yeah, big thanks to them. That doesn't give them the right to do everything they want.


Yeah, which makes Chae bringing up 'past insults' and how he sees KeSPA as a 'threat' even more ironic now, doesn't it? Anyway, if eSF players said we will not play in any further OSLs unless KeSPA players also participate in GSL, that'd be a reasonable demand despite the transitions and what-have-you, but the point is they joined OSL way back, and are pulling out of it in the middle of the tournament, even though KeSPA really hasn't done anything blatantly wrong. The accusation of them 'boycotting' GSL is based on assumptions alone, and is in really bad taste.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
August 25 2012 15:46 GMT
#431
On August 26 2012 00:40 Sandermatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:36 Drowsy wrote:
Wouldn't it be awesome if Kespa and ESF were just dismantled and there was no retarded governing body which controls whether or not players can participate in any given leagues and was at the discretion of each individual player and his team?


We can only dream...

Like seriously, can't the leagues just set to rules as far as pausing/chatting/disqualification? There's like no reason for a governing body.


Well, esf has not done anything before that. Their only purpose seems to be exactly that: No control over the players.
If an esf player would join OSL anyway, nobody would punish him.

And yet they're banning all their players from playing in OSL
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
August 25 2012 15:46 GMT
#432
On August 26 2012 00:36 Salazarz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla

nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really?


What reason do you have to think otherwise?


So you actually believe their reasons for not entering are 100% because of scheduling conflicts? That they would be privy to scheduling information so far in advance they could say there are conflicts with GSL S5 (which apparently now there schedule doesn't conflict with, hmm)?

I've posted reasoning behind why their claim of scheduling conflicts is completely bullshit, you can go through my posts to see the lack of logic on KeSPAs part. Fact is, KeSPA players used to operate under a busier Proleague and two individual leagues, very much different from now. With playoffs coming up, many players have nothing to do other than practice or go on vacation.

I think it is very naive to believe there is absolutely no political motivation behind the decisions towards GOMTV.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
August 25 2012 15:47 GMT
#433
On August 26 2012 00:40 Quarz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:19 Femari wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:16 rebdomine wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:10 Mithriel wrote:
I'll side with esf for the entire thing! They did so much for sc2 in Korea and outside Korea! Happy they fight against kespa who just wants to step in and rule the sc2 scene. Fuck them


yeah fuck them. fuck the association that is the reason why we even have korean esports.

So what?

That doesn't mean they should be able to waltz in and dictate everything in the scene. Hell they shouldn't even be dictating what their players can play in.


Your employer should dictate what you work for. He simply should send you their money. Anyway if Kespa Player has problems is up to them to build up an player union. The ESF doesn't represent their interests. If Stork talks about he should maybe talk with other big famous player and do the player union.

It like if CR7 says to RM, hey i wanna play in the premier legue next week, screw you RM.

CR7 is under contract.

The players are not under a labor contract.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126075
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
Sandermatt
Profile Joined December 2010
Switzerland1365 Posts
August 25 2012 15:48 GMT
#434
On August 26 2012 00:46 floor exercise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:40 Sandermatt wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:36 Drowsy wrote:
Wouldn't it be awesome if Kespa and ESF were just dismantled and there was no retarded governing body which controls whether or not players can participate in any given leagues and was at the discretion of each individual player and his team?


We can only dream...

Like seriously, can't the leagues just set to rules as far as pausing/chatting/disqualification? There's like no reason for a governing body.


Well, esf has not done anything before that. Their only purpose seems to be exactly that: No control over the players.
If an esf player would join OSL anyway, nobody would punish him.

And yet they're banning all their players from playing in OSL


No, the players are choosing not to join the OSL. It is a decision made by the players.
ff7legend
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States213 Posts
August 25 2012 15:48 GMT
#435
Feels like we are trying to desegregate the gaming world or something similar.
I am the best ever... aka Truth, Judge, Legend
Salazarz
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Korea (South)2591 Posts
August 25 2012 15:48 GMT
#436
On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'.

I not only glanced through you post, I actually read all of it
And judging by the way you were arguing against GomTV Classic, that they intruded a healthy established scene and tried to rob it, you should actually side with eSF right now, because, you know, Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch, and the scene is perfectly healthy without them. Same train of thought - they are the intruders here that want a piece of the pie.
(Disclaimer: I know it is not exactly the same situation and that SC2 scene in Korea would profit greatly from it, yet it is still similar enough to echo this kind of argumentation).
Oh and the same that goes for Kespa and OGN not being the same thing goes for eSF and GOM as well, they are not the same thing. So you shouldn't blame GOM/Mr.Chae for anything here...
I still hope that they settle it peacefully, but Kespa needs to realize that they do not have the same kind of leverage that they used to have in BW and that they cannot establish a monopoly again like they seem to be trying.


But, KeSPA aren't intruding the scene!!! So far they are perfectly happy to play in their own leagues, practice, and get their SC2 skills up to scratch. The only reason OSL even had eSF players in it is because the said eSF players were super excited to participate in it. It's true that KeSPA/OGN did nothing for SC2 before their switch - but that was because Blizzard wouldn't let them. Now, they are transitioning late (thanks to Blizzard), they are taking it slow - which is absolutely the right thing to do in their situation, but now are blamed for being patient and cautious rather than diving in head-first.

It's not like they demand seeds in GSL "or else", it's not like they demand eSF players in their leagues "or else" - they just want to have plenty of time before they commit to anything 'big', which is how things always worked for them.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
August 25 2012 15:48 GMT
#437
On August 26 2012 00:46 floor exercise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:40 Sandermatt wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:36 Drowsy wrote:
Wouldn't it be awesome if Kespa and ESF were just dismantled and there was no retarded governing body which controls whether or not players can participate in any given leagues and was at the discretion of each individual player and his team?


We can only dream...

Like seriously, can't the leagues just set to rules as far as pausing/chatting/disqualification? There's like no reason for a governing body.


Well, esf has not done anything before that. Their only purpose seems to be exactly that: No control over the players.
If an esf player would join OSL anyway, nobody would punish him.

And yet they're banning all their players from playing in OSL

MC is a member of SK, which isn't a member of the ESF.

He pulled out as well.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
August 25 2012 15:48 GMT
#438
On August 26 2012 00:34 Greenei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:bla

nice try kespa employee. do you really think kespas reasons to not join gsl are 100% legit? like really?

at least they provided reasons, not acting a dick and pulling out in the middle of the league which is set to commerce in two days?

dont get me wrong kids, I dont side with anyone. In this market share battle, GOM/ESF has been showing loopholes, KeSPA capitalized on that, so GOM/ESF gone apeshit. Imo this move is too provocative and it would end up with KeSPA doing something just as crazy. Who will bite the dust in the end? Who would Blizz stick with? An online broadcaster who failed to capture the domestic audience in two years, or , a ministry-tied organization with ten years in the business and a national cable channel? You choose.

and ffs dont include those "foreigner" or "esport" nonsense yo. Whoever gets more Korean viewership wins. Think any of the two parties give a fuck about these terms?
sc14s
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-25 15:51:31
August 25 2012 15:50 GMT
#439
On August 26 2012 00:44 attackmoveftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:33 ChrysaliS_ wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:25 rebdomine wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:18 NHY wrote:
On August 25 2012 23:36 rebdomine wrote:
Are people seriously siding on ESF with this?

KesPA might've been jerks by deciding to disallow their players from trying for GSL, but to me ESF look like the bigger assholes by ruiining a tournament that is already going on.


KeSPA is trying to screw GSL after ESF joined OSL. This is on KeSPA.


How is the GSL screwed? The tournament is still going to proceed well even without the KeSPA players. And at this point, if any of them do qualify, it'd probably be what 3 or 4 players.

ESF is ruining a whole tournament by pulling out half the players in it. That seems more like screwing a tournament to me than not letting players play in qualifiers.


It's not about this one OSL. It's a much bigger issue. If KeSPA is allowed to develop a stranglehold on the SC2 scene the way they did in BW, nobody wins, except for KeSPA. It is in both the players' and viewers' best interest for ESF to stand strong here, even if it means sacrificing one tournament. You could argue that sponsors would prefer the KeSPA-Reich model of BW, but GOM and foreign teams have both demonstrated that E-sports sponsorships can be successful without autocracy.


You mean like the once vibrant COD4 scene that died once Activision started cranking out endless iterations of COD, each more dumbed down and casual than the previous? Yeah, I think an Blizzard-Activision-Reich model will be great for Starcraft.

Btw, I think we just hit the Goddard point.

rofl, as if the CoD ripoff was ever as good as the other shooters it stole all of its ideas from (primarily DoD)..
Sandermatt
Profile Joined December 2010
Switzerland1365 Posts
August 25 2012 15:50 GMT
#440
On August 26 2012 00:48 Salazarz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 00:43 ACrow wrote:
On August 26 2012 00:26 Salazarz wrote:
I hope people will at least glance through this post before posting further nonsensical arguments. There's really a lot more to it than KeSPA trying to push eSF/Gom around and eSF/Gom 'protecting their freedom'.

I not only glanced through you post, I actually read all of it
And judging by the way you were arguing against GomTV Classic, that they intruded a healthy established scene and tried to rob it, you should actually side with eSF right now, because, you know, Kespa/OGN did shit for SC2 up until the switch, and the scene is perfectly healthy without them. Same train of thought - they are the intruders here that want a piece of the pie.
(Disclaimer: I know it is not exactly the same situation and that SC2 scene in Korea would profit greatly from it, yet it is still similar enough to echo this kind of argumentation).
Oh and the same that goes for Kespa and OGN not being the same thing goes for eSF and GOM as well, they are not the same thing. So you shouldn't blame GOM/Mr.Chae for anything here...
I still hope that they settle it peacefully, but Kespa needs to realize that they do not have the same kind of leverage that they used to have in BW and that they cannot establish a monopoly again like they seem to be trying.


But, KeSPA aren't intruding the scene!!! So far they are perfectly happy to play in their own leagues, practice, and get their SC2 skills up to scratch. The only reason OSL even had eSF players in it is because the said eSF players were super excited to participate in it. It's true that KeSPA/OGN did nothing for SC2 before their switch - but that was because Blizzard wouldn't let them. Now, they are transitioning late (thanks to Blizzard), they are taking it slow - which is absolutely the right thing to do in their situation, but now are blamed for being patient and cautious rather than diving in head-first.

It's not like they demand seeds in GSL "or else", it's not like they demand eSF players in their leagues "or else" - they just want to have plenty of time before they commit to anything 'big', which is how things always worked for them.


And the esf players give them even more time to prepare.
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