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On August 24 2012 22:38 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:20 OpticalShot wrote:Just going to drop this here, already posted in the other thread but hopefully more people will be informed: On August 24 2012 22:09 OpticalShot wrote:Jeez, now will all of you put your pitchforks down? As I stated in the earlier thread (of the same issue) it was just a business decision due to lack of detailed schedule planning (source: Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate) and they clearly stated, at least publicly, that they're not trying to create a feud with GOM or the ESF (source: Another Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate). Both of these Fomos articles popped up overnight or something, I didn't see them yesterday. *edit: I'll add some details from the above two articles, in case you're curious: + Show Spoiler +First article:
- KeSPA apologizes for creating this mess
- KeSPA states that there were no official discussion on schedules and dates
- KeSPA states that they had no idea GSL were willing to give out seeds to KeSPA players
- They're not trying to create a divide, why else would they have accepted the cross-matches in the past then?
- They're now discussing the possibility of giving the same "progamer license" to ESF players, and accordingly:
- They're now discussing the possibility of (finally) recognizing GSL as an "official tournament"
- KeSPA states that the above two points have been made known to GOM and they're internally discussing it too
Second article:
- much of the same things, more details
- in the past 4 months, KeSPA sent players to WCS, Cross-Matches, WCG Korea, and MLG Invitations on top of the OSL and PL - all this was possible due to months of planning ahead
- in the upcoming month (September) KeSPA players are already booked for the PL games + playoffs, OSL, continuation of WCG Korea, WCS, and MLG.
- above is why KeSPA thought participating in GSL S4 would be too much of a push
- KeSPA promises to act and plan ahead and communicate better with teams and players in the future (T/N: LOL yeah right, like I haven't heard that one before) As linked many times, according to This DES Article, KeSPA stated on the 24th (today) that they will send eligible players from ALL teams (stated explicitly in the article as "all teams") to participate in the next GSL (next as in Season 5). They also added that they don't want any more tension in the scene, but that's most likely a PR statement lol. I just wonder why players cant decide for themselves. If players think PL + OSL + WCS + more is already too much and dont want to try GSL on top of that, then, you know, they just have to not show up at Code A qualifiers. If others (and this is likely different from player to player) consider themselves to have enough time, or maybe just wanna go to the qualifiers to gain experience, why stop them?
Yeah, and that's the point that KeSPA didn't address.
Below are my personal thoughts and opinions on this, not translations:
I think a lot of KeSPA players would have had the time to participate in GSL S4 - especially for teams not participating in the playoffs. However, there are still 6 teams that could earn a playoff spot (Ace and KT are out already, I think). Once playoffs are decided, 2 additional teams will have time on their hands to send players to GSL. I'm not sure on the precise dates for all these, but for the benefit of the doubt, let's say that these are decided PRIOR to GSL preliminaries and stuff. I'm thinking actually that ACE cannot participate in GSL since there are strict rules on the ACE players, and they may not be able to play at a non-sanctioned tournament (GSL is not sanctioned by KeSPA / probably not by Ministry of Culture as a result).
For the four teams participating the playoffs, as a group they'd like to keep everyone focused on PL playoffs. Roro did say he wanted to try out GSL, but even if he was eligible to, I think the team would have pressured him into preparing for the playoffs. PL is serious business for these teams - sponsors want their team to win, obviously, and it's been well known for a long time that the entire team (incl. B-teamers) practice hard. The players with names we know are paid salaries (out of the sponsors' pockets) and I'm sure they don't want to lose their stable income.
As much as KeSPA has betrayed our trust in the past and made all sorts of nonsense decisions, I really think they were trying to protect PL as much as possible with the pulling out of GSL S4. We have to remind ourselves that PL is still a hybrid-league, i.e. SCBW + SC2, and practice is probably going to be harder than ever. I don't know how much the SC2 maps overlap between GSL S4 and SKPL, but I'm going with the general assumption that the two leagues don't use the same set of maps.
So all in all, a selfish but understandable move by KeSPA, badly managed communications and PR (KeSPA should have released an apology + explanation statement before GOM did), GOM could have reduced the bitter tone in their statement to "win" this situation outright, ESF made a smart move by showing KeSPA that there will be consequences to selfish actions, and KeSPA made the last-minute surrender and promised participation in season 5. If we didn't blow this out of proportions, it could have just been a slightly hostile but resolved case of negotiations.
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On August 24 2012 22:54 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:52 Bojas wrote:
Am I the only one who is confused by this decision?
First they decide not to participate in the GSL, a huge company like KESPA undoubtedly considered the consequences of that decision. ESF does what they were likely to do, Blizzard was going to make an announcement regarding this and suddenly they decide it wasn't a good idea.
Is it likely that Blizzard told KESPA to STFU and do what's best for ESPORTS? Only thing I can think of. they said no one will play in gsl4 now they only say gsl 5 is ok, they still not allow them to play in the next gsl upcoming ... wcs helped sooo much to promote the kespa teams in the world, 100 times more then proleague can with only kespa guys. so gsl would be perfect to make guys like reality a name and when they start playing in gsl it seems they not want reality or some iother semi skilled gamer to be the top it seems they want flash jaedong etc to be the best
of course they dont want that. wathc the wcs matches...so many people and especially fangirls go there because they wanna see their idol. its not just good for kespa that and promoting themselves if they participate in gsl. they also give the gsl alot more viewers
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I just hope Heart of Swarm comes out soon like at the end of GSL season 4 so that all kespa players has to start training for A NEW GAME ONE MORE TIME .!! so GOOD
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On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will.
As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not.
What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago.
It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here.
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On August 24 2012 22:50 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:48 figq wrote:
If ESF don't still pull their players from the current OSL, they've been basically fooled. Don't get yourself fooled, Nestea!
Kespa skips a season - ESF should skip a season. Except OSL's are twice the length of GSL's and they're much less common. Also this OSL will end after the GSL S5 qualifiers start, so ESF will still have leverage for a while.
The current OSL and GSL season 4 ends about the same time (27th and 20th of October respectively) so if KeSPA players will not participate until after GSL season 4, then it is appropriate that ESF players not participate until after OSL season 1. Yes OSLs are longer, but ESF players are only pulling out of the second round of OSL (i.e. ro16 and onwards) which takes that same time as a GSL season. In any case it is not like ESF has any smaller measure they can take which KeSPA will care about. ESF are not the bad ones here and KeSPA is almost forcing them to react this way.
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On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago.
Well basicaly people from different company threatened to disrupt on going event just so Kespa won't use their own rights on their own employees. Thank god no one is monitoring this shit. But yea #Free Elephants from ZOO.
If Kespa did wrong, ESF did horrendous thing.
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On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here.
You're pretty crazy. If they don't "blackmail" then KeSPA ends up with all the cards.
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Can't wait to watch KESPA players in GSL! I have not much interest in OSL and stuff, since their english broadcast is going to be sub par, most likely.
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On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here.
Even Koreans don't see it that way? You really think ESF is doing the blackmailing? They're responding to their threat to self-preservation, KeSPA is trying to kill off GOM again.
You're right that GOM won't be happy if the A-teamers don't participate - so what? Do you think OSL will mean as much if you have ESF B-teamers only participating?
KeSPA is acting like a dick, pulling out every time while complaining about scheduling or whatever.
No one is saying KeSPA should force its teams to participate. But individuals like Roro have already stated they want to participate and weren't allowed to.
Ignorant fanboy. I forgot you're the person who always shits on EG too. What a clueless individual.
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half-assed from KEspa and they still try to make out that they are not being cunts
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On August 24 2012 23:08 mememolly wrote:
half-assed from KEspa and they still try to make out that they are not being cunts
I bet they'll suddenly participate in GSL 4 when ESF still refuses to participate in the inaugural SC2 OSL.
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I hope ESF stands their ground. Backing down now just because of a promised season 5 doesn't help anything. And they may just join 1 season and leave. STAND YOUR GROUND NESTEA!
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Wait, wasn't all this chaos started because Kespa wasn't participating in Season 4? So basically Kespa is ceding a bit by promising to participate in Season 5, but I don't think this solves the main issue yet.
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On August 24 2012 23:10 Bagration wrote:
Wait, wasn't all this chaos started because Kespa wasn't participating in Season 4? So basically Kespa is ceding a bit by promising to participate in Season 5, but I don't think this solves the main issue yet.
Everyone apart from the few kespa fanboys on teamliquid knows that , Korean netizens are still telling the ESF to not participate, Mr Chae release a twit on the situation about how Kespa would fuck gom again.
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I think a contract signed by both parties will be necessary.
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So what's keeping them from doing the exact same thing again? Yeah we'll participate... pull out.
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On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here. Even Koreans don't see it that way? You really think ESF is doing the blackmailing? They're responding to their threat to self-preservation, KeSPA is trying to kill off GOM again.
What threat? Their players playing in OSL for one season while Kespa doesn't play in GSL isn't going to kill anything, that's ridiculous. If they see that Kespa is intentionally boycotting GSL, they can not participate in the next OSL if it bothers them. But pulling out of a tournament they already joined and clearly intended to play is a dick move.
On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:
No one is saying KeSPA should force its teams to participate. But individuals like Roro have already stated they want to participate and weren't allowed to.
He can leave KHAN and participate in anything he wants.
If the players are so unhappy as you say, this will happen and Kespa teams will die out within a year because nobody will want to play there. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen, but we'll see.
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That's what they said about Season 4.
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Ugh... this is good news I suppose, but they still have to wait a season, and it all leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. It seems KeSPA will just wait until they have more leverage and then do the same thing... it's really frustrating.
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EPT
