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Promises ? Ok, so ESF players will partecipate at OSL2, but not this. Wtf, its not a question about "who is the evil" its not even a "fair trade". Kespa always want the upperhand? I agreed when people say the problem is the players freedom, but its not a thing that could change in hours, so, for now this deal is unfair and suspicious.
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On August 24 2012 23:19 InVerno wrote:
Promises ? Ok, so ESF players will partecipate at OSL2, but not this. Wtf, its not a question about "who is the evil" its not even a "fair trade". Kespa always want the upperhand? I agreed when people say the problem is the players freedom, but its not a thing that could change in hours, so, for now this deal is unfair and suspicious.
The saddest thing is no one from Kespa teams is standing up for themselves..
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Why aren't kespa players participating in season 4? I'm trying to read through this thread to find the answer but it's always about Season 5
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On August 24 2012 23:20 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:19 InVerno wrote:
Promises ? Ok, so ESF players will partecipate at OSL2, but not this. Wtf, its not a question about "who is the evil" its not even a "fair trade". Kespa always want the upperhand? I agreed when people say the problem is the players freedom, but its not a thing that could change in hours, so, for now this deal is unfair and suspicious. The saddest thing is no one from Kespa teams is standing up for themselves..
Where is Boxer? He seems like the perfect player representative for the Kespa teams (even if he is not a player himself).
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If only this crap could have happened behind the scenes.
Bickering... threats to boycott... fine, whatever. Just don't fucking do it in public view and in the media.
Meet. Reach agreement. Publish statement.
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On August 24 2012 22:11 imPermanenCe wrote:
Lol, I guess the threat worked out for them. Seems the GSL players will now keep playing in the OSL.
would be stupid of them too
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France9034 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:16 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here. Even Koreans don't see it that way? You really think ESF is doing the blackmailing? They're responding to their threat to self-preservation, KeSPA is trying to kill off GOM again. What threat? Their players playing in OSL for one season while Kespa doesn't play in GSL isn't going to kill anything, that's ridiculous. If they see that Kespa is intentionally boycotting GSL, they can not participate in the next OSL if it bothers them. But pulling out of a tournament they already joined and clearly intended to play is a dick move. Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:
No one is saying KeSPA should force its teams to participate. But individuals like Roro have already stated they want to participate and weren't allowed to. He can leave KHAN and participate in anything he wants. If the players are so unhappy as you say, this will happen and Kespa teams will die out within a year because nobody will want to play there. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen, but we'll see.
No this will not, because they won't be paid then. And since they will be forced to avoid ESF teams (due to the contract they signed), they won't be able to do "what they want".
And if GSL players play in this OSL and not in the next ones, but Kespa doesn't allow its players to play in the GSL, then Kespa will have succeeded fucking totally GOMTV and ESF by not only getting money alone based on the Kespa vs ESF storyline, but also impose themselves on the SC2 scene which they would've locked in the process.
Basically, they will get money + supremacy from a scene they didn't even contribute to build.
I would call that robbery and disrepect, in a way.
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On August 24 2012 23:16 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here. Even Koreans don't see it that way? You really think ESF is doing the blackmailing? They're responding to their threat to self-preservation, KeSPA is trying to kill off GOM again. What threat? Their players playing in OSL for one season while Kespa doesn't play in GSL isn't going to kill anything, that's ridiculous. If they see that Kespa is intentionally boycotting GSL, they can not participate in the next OSL if it bothers them. But pulling out of a tournament they already joined and clearly intended to play is a dick move.
3 months from now OGN is much stronger as an SC2 league, and is the only league with kespa/esf rivalry players. There's no reason for them to give up that market position without a fight.
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On August 24 2012 23:22 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:20 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:19 InVerno wrote:
Promises ? Ok, so ESF players will partecipate at OSL2, but not this. Wtf, its not a question about "who is the evil" its not even a "fair trade". Kespa always want the upperhand? I agreed when people say the problem is the players freedom, but its not a thing that could change in hours, so, for now this deal is unfair and suspicious. The saddest thing is no one from Kespa teams is standing up for themselves.. Where is Boxer? He seems like the perfect player representative for the Kespa teams (even if he is not a player himself).
Boxer is currently under Kespa..lol, but his recent tweet seems to be a tweet that is supportive of the ESF.
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What a half-assed damage control attempt. Fuck them. I honestly don't think sucking their dicks is any good, just because how they made esports in the past possible. Times change and even though the "sc2 is there because of BW in Korea" argument is viable up to a certain point, the last 2 years of development have been made without them. I'm not gonna watch anything with kespa apart from GOM, that's for sure. Poor players though. I doubt many (or any at all) are able to break out of this structure after so many years of abuse.
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thank god for what? this does not solve anything
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United Kingdom2599 Posts
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On August 24 2012 23:22 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:16 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here. Even Koreans don't see it that way? You really think ESF is doing the blackmailing? They're responding to their threat to self-preservation, KeSPA is trying to kill off GOM again. What threat? Their players playing in OSL for one season while Kespa doesn't play in GSL isn't going to kill anything, that's ridiculous. If they see that Kespa is intentionally boycotting GSL, they can not participate in the next OSL if it bothers them. But pulling out of a tournament they already joined and clearly intended to play is a dick move. On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:
No one is saying KeSPA should force its teams to participate. But individuals like Roro have already stated they want to participate and weren't allowed to. He can leave KHAN and participate in anything he wants. If the players are so unhappy as you say, this will happen and Kespa teams will die out within a year because nobody will want to play there. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen, but we'll see. No this will not, because they won't be paid then. And since they will be forced to avoid ESF teams (due to the contract they signed), they won't be able to do "what they want".
Wait, what contract? How would they be forced to avoid ESF teams? -_-
Once they leave they can do whatever they want. Like mvp, Supernova and ForGG did.
On August 24 2012 23:23 SimDawg wrote:
3 months from now OGN is much stronger as an SC2 league, and is the only league with kespa/esf rivalry players. There's no reason for them to give up that market position without a fight.
If they were so paranoid, they shouldn't have joined OSL in the first place (or at least until Kespa players started playing GSL) and everything would be fine.
But this nonsense about "player freedom" and trying to dictate how someone else's teams should be run internally and claiming the moral high ground is bullshit.
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On August 24 2012 23:23 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:22 Assirra wrote:On August 24 2012 23:20 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:19 InVerno wrote:
Promises ? Ok, so ESF players will partecipate at OSL2, but not this. Wtf, its not a question about "who is the evil" its not even a "fair trade". Kespa always want the upperhand? I agreed when people say the problem is the players freedom, but its not a thing that could change in hours, so, for now this deal is unfair and suspicious. The saddest thing is no one from Kespa teams is standing up for themselves.. Where is Boxer? He seems like the perfect player representative for the Kespa teams (even if he is not a player himself). Boxer is currently under Kespa..lol, but his recent tweet seems to be a tweet that is supportive of the ESF.
Which is exactly why he could represent the kespa players, he is under kespa themselves atm and he been their for years.
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On August 24 2012 23:28 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:23 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:22 Assirra wrote:On August 24 2012 23:20 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:19 InVerno wrote:
Promises ? Ok, so ESF players will partecipate at OSL2, but not this. Wtf, its not a question about "who is the evil" its not even a "fair trade". Kespa always want the upperhand? I agreed when people say the problem is the players freedom, but its not a thing that could change in hours, so, for now this deal is unfair and suspicious. The saddest thing is no one from Kespa teams is standing up for themselves.. Where is Boxer? He seems like the perfect player representative for the Kespa teams (even if he is not a player himself). Boxer is currently under Kespa..lol, but his recent tweet seems to be a tweet that is supportive of the ESF. Which is exactly why he could represent the kespa players, he is under kespa themselves atm and he been their for years.
-_- Do you know what you are talking about? That would be a conflict of interest. Boxer is a employee now he is technically working for Kespa. Going against kespa and standing up for the teams is not what a employee would do.
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On August 24 2012 23:28 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:22 Ragnarork wrote:On August 24 2012 23:16 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote:On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote:
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here. Even Koreans don't see it that way? You really think ESF is doing the blackmailing? They're responding to their threat to self-preservation, KeSPA is trying to kill off GOM again. What threat? Their players playing in OSL for one season while Kespa doesn't play in GSL isn't going to kill anything, that's ridiculous. If they see that Kespa is intentionally boycotting GSL, they can not participate in the next OSL if it bothers them. But pulling out of a tournament they already joined and clearly intended to play is a dick move. On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote:
No one is saying KeSPA should force its teams to participate. But individuals like Roro have already stated they want to participate and weren't allowed to. He can leave KHAN and participate in anything he wants. If the players are so unhappy as you say, this will happen and Kespa teams will die out within a year because nobody will want to play there. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen, but we'll see. No this will not, because they won't be paid then. And since they will be forced to avoid ESF teams (due to the contract they signed), they won't be able to do "what they want". Wait, what contract? How would they be forced to avoid ESF teams? -_- Once they leave they can do whatever they want. Like mvp, Supernova and ForGG did. Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:23 SimDawg wrote:
3 months from now OGN is much stronger as an SC2 league, and is the only league with kespa/esf rivalry players. There's no reason for them to give up that market position without a fight.
If they were so paranoid, they shouldn't have joined OSL in the first place (or at least until Kespa players started playing GSL) and everything would be fine.
you sir, are ignorant.
User was warned for this post
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What if Kespa says it will participate in GSL 5 but doesnt, im pretty sure OSL will be finished by then.
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blizzard/players putting their foot down. gj
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On August 24 2012 22:16 Epoxide wrote:
Happy it got solved so quickly. I hope we see minimal of this.
wow you are naive
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EPT
