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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On Aug. 24, KeSPA released a statement that they will participate the next GSL after GSL Season 4. In order to prevent another fallout of leagues as eSports Federation made a statement to boycott OSL, all teams in KeSPA decided to participate the next GSL tournament that will happen after GSL Season 4. You can find more details at the link. 
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whirlpool
2788 Posts
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imPermanenCe
Netherlands595 Posts
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AXygnus
Portugal1008 Posts
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Ghyslyn
Canada130 Posts
http://www.thisisgame.com/en/2012/08/24/kespa-explains-the-reason-not-joining-gsl-season-4 Here is the direct source for the article that OP provided, if anyone who speaks Korean fluently wants to clarify whether it states that they WILL or WON'T participate in GSL 5 please help us out here. http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=65681 | ||
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ibo422
Belgium2844 Posts
glad it's resolved (it is right?) | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:13 pallad wrote: Thank good , end of this drama For now. It never ends with Kespa. | ||
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ilsamsamchil
155 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
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Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
And yeah, eSF should definitely stay out of this OSL anyway - after all, why would we the viewers want to see tournaments running smoothly and games between players that we are fans of! Preposterous! | ||
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pencil_ethics
Australia174 Posts
Nobody trusts KeSPA over there, whether they are Brood War fans or StarCraft II fans. | ||
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rasnj
United States1959 Posts
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
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geno
United States1404 Posts
The first half-conciliation can be such a slippery slope, and I wouldn't trust KeSPA to stand by their word on this without a more pressing incentive than "to prevent another fallout of leagues." It still sounds like they are not taking this situation seriously to me. | ||
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OminouS
Sweden1343 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:15 X3GoldDot wrote: ESF should say that they wont participate in this osl and only in the next osl as well lol i like this idea | ||
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Endall
United States66 Posts
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seoul_kiM
United States545 Posts
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Lumi
United States1612 Posts
This. Everyone needs to understand this and remain prepared for the future with KeSPA. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:12 Ghyslyn wrote: That seems contrary to what they announced just a few hours ago... http://www.thisisgame.com/en/2012/08/24/kespa-explains-the-reason-not-joining-gsl-season-4 Here is the direct source for the article that OP provided, if anyone who speaks Korean fluently wants to clarify whether it states that they WILL or WON'T participate in GSL 5 please help us out here. http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=65681 That first article suggests that the reason the Kespa players weren't participating in GSL was scheduling issues. I assume something has been worked out so that it fits with the OSL and SPL schedules. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
Means Kespa players will have more time to practice, and once released on GSL they will destroy. | ||
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JyB
France466 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:15 X3GoldDot wrote: ESF should say that they wont participate in this osl and only in the next osl as well lol Didn't the ESF state that they will not participate in the OSL until the Kespa players tryout for the GSL? That kind of implies what you said. | ||
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geno
United States1404 Posts
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:09 OpticalShot wrote: Jeez, now will all of you put your pitchforks down? As I stated in the earlier thread (of the same issue) it was just a business decision due to lack of detailed schedule planning (source: Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate) and they clearly stated, at least publicly, that they're not trying to create a feud with GOM or the ESF (source: Another Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate). Both of these Fomos articles popped up overnight or something, I didn't see them yesterday. *edit: I'll add some details from the above two articles, in case you're curious: + Show Spoiler + First article: - KeSPA apologizes for creating this mess - KeSPA states that there were no official discussion on schedules and dates - KeSPA states that they had no idea GSL were willing to give out seeds to KeSPA players - They're not trying to create a divide, why else would they have accepted the cross-matches in the past then? - They're now discussing the possibility of giving the same "progamer license" to ESF players, and accordingly: - They're now discussing the possibility of (finally) recognizing GSL as an "official tournament" - KeSPA states that the above two points have been made known to GOM and they're internally discussing it too Second article: - much of the same things, more details - in the past 4 months, KeSPA sent players to WCS, Cross-Matches, WCG Korea, and MLG Invitations on top of the OSL and PL - all this was possible due to months of planning ahead - in the upcoming month (September) KeSPA players are already booked for the PL games + playoffs, OSL, continuation of WCG Korea, WCS, and MLG. - above is why KeSPA thought participating in GSL S4 would be too much of a push - KeSPA promises to act and plan ahead and communicate better with teams and players in the future (T/N: LOL yeah right, like I haven't heard that one before) As linked many times, according to This DES Article, KeSPA stated on the 24th (today) that they will send eligible players from ALL teams (stated explicitly in the article as "all teams") to participate in the next GSL (next as in Season 5). They also added that they don't want any more tension in the scene, but that's most likely a PR statement lol. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:15 X3GoldDot wrote: ESF should say that they wont participate in this osl and only in the next osl as well lol Totally agree. It seems Kespa has to feel the pain first before they understand that the sc2 scene is not just about them, like in BW. and they need to cooperate and stop being childisch. | ||
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FoxerGames
Australia120 Posts
Now let the fun BEGINN!!!!! | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
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pmp10
3312 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:13 pallad wrote: Thank god , end of this drama This one perhaps - more will follow soon. This was just a probing action. Now that GSL showed a heavy-handed response Kespa will take a less direct route. Let the cold-war begin. | ||
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soiii
Germany266 Posts
It feels great to see KeSPA get smacked in the face but i think they will stay the same scumbags and just wait for another chance to fuck everybody else over. | ||
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8mmspikes
United States1704 Posts
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ilsamsamchil
155 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:25 soiii wrote: It feels like Blizzard pressured KeSPA quite a bit behind the scenes. Hard to imagine what else made them change their mind so fast. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_OnGameNet_Starleague_Season_1/Round_of_16 This probably. | ||
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Deleted User 124618
1142 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:23 pmp10 wrote: Now that GSL showed a heavy-handed response Kespa will take a less direct route. I wonder how many times it has to be repeated that the ESF isn't GOM. | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
There is still no justification on why all the kespa players are not allowed in season 4. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
Funny how the '8 day' schedule now has some space... | ||
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Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
If that's it, then this whole ordeal has been a colossal waste of time and seems like yet another extreme overreaction by the SC2 community. Edit: Nothing has actually changed by this announcement, and all the "Haha, KeSPA backed down" posts are hasty and uninformed. | ||
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:19 JyB wrote: Why should we believe them ? I hate to say it, but I think that might be their plan. Don't be shocked if they pull out next season too. | ||
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Acronysis
872 Posts
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Zer atai
United States691 Posts
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seanisgrand
United States1039 Posts
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Ireniicus
United Kingdom374 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:27 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote: I don't see where the capitulation is. Did KeSPA ever say that they weren't going to participate in Season 5 to start with? It seems like they were just staying out of Season 4 because it conflicted with the end of Proleague. Morever, they're still not participating in Season 4. If that's it, then this whole ordeal has been a colossal waste of time and seems like yet another extreme overreaction by the SC2 community. Pretty much. Everyone be jumping the gun. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:28 seanisgrand wrote: ESF just exhibited some fantastic and calculated headship on KeSPA. They really got told. If you think this is going to stop KeSPA from trying to get a leg up on everyone in the future then think again. | ||
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FidoDido
United States1292 Posts
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:27 X3GoldDot wrote: dustin browder has something to do with this........... yeah right, the game developer did this  His boss' boss Mike Morheime is probably a better guess  | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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Str1keFreedom
United States112 Posts
When Kespa boycotted Gretech back in broodwar days, they clearly stated that they may join future leagues. They didnt even give Gretech a wink after the boycott. Right now no one in Korea believes this statement from Kespa. Also do not believe in Fomos. It is the main media that Kespa uses to communicate with people and it always gets trashed by korean Netizens for its bias and inaccuracy. Fomos is the same organization that trashed Boxer and Nada calling them "prize money hunter" for leaving kespa for sc2. Mr. Chae tweeted 2hrs ago , "Something that happened once may not occur. But something that happened twice will most definitely occur." He is talking about Kespa. This happened before, happened again, and bound to happen more times in the future. This is quite a serious problem that relates to monoplization of esports in korea, and this will affect foreign tournaments as well if we let Kespa have it their way. Many of the enjoyment of foreign tournament comes from Foreigner vs Koreans, and if GomTV loses this fight who knows the future of the GomTV players and their sponsorship. Please do not fall for Kespa's vile words and support Gom through this unforgivable situation that happened once again. Edit: For people who say Kespa players have killer schedule, please dont fall for that... Remember before MBCGames was disbanded Kespa players had dealt with multiple leagues and had no problems. Side projects? they do that all the time. Think about it. Not all players in Kespa will qualify for WCG, WCS, MLG, GSL etc... So why take away chances of players of qualifying for certain competition when eliminated from the other. It does not make sense. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:27 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote: I don't see where the capitulation is. Did KeSPA ever say that they weren't going to participate in Season 5 to start with? It seems like they were just staying out of Season 4 because it conflicted with the end of Proleague. Morever, they're still not participating in Season 4. If that's it, then this whole ordeal has been a colossal waste of time and seems like yet another extreme overreaction by the SC2 community. It might not be over; ESF said that they would not play in OSL until KeSPA allowed their players to attend GSL. From KeSPA's statement they are still forbidding players so that would mean that ESF wont attend OSL until next season of GOM begins. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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dapierow
Serbia1316 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32740 Posts
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Velinath
United States694 Posts
KeSPA's not done yet, IMO. Here's hoping we have everyone in GSL5. | ||
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seansye
United States1722 Posts
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
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Alaiz
France118 Posts
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
No but seriously, GSL 5 is after the OSL. They will get the GSL players to participate in OSL, then just go back on their word again and not bother with GSL 5 after all. Unless they agree to play in the upcoming GSL then the boycott should continue. They aren't trustworthy. | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:26 Greentellon wrote: I wonder how many times it has to be repeated that the ESF isn't GOM. Not quite but almost. Both can´t survive without the other one. Honestly I think Blizzard needs to destroy KeSPA (As long as KeSPA is not making money with LoL this is possible) and then really act like the big boss in in the business. | ||
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seoul_kiM
United States545 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:36 Exarl25 wrote: It's a trap! No but seriously, GSL 5 is after the OSL. They will get the GSL players to participate in OSL, then just go back on their word again and not bother with GSL 5 after all. Unless they agree to play in the upcoming GSL then the boycott should continue. They aren't trustworthy. They will most likely sign a legal agreement to participate. Kespa just bent over and took it hard from Mr. Chae. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
I'm suddenly really not looking forward to the OSL and GSL this season any more =( That's what this drama has done to me as a spectator. I don't like confrontations. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:20 OpticalShot wrote: Just going to drop this here, already posted in the other thread but hopefully more people will be informed: I just wonder why players cant decide for themselves. If players think PL + OSL + WCS + more is already too much and dont want to try GSL on top of that, then, you know, they just have to not show up at Code A qualifiers. If others (and this is likely different from player to player) consider themselves to have enough time, or maybe just wanna go to the qualifiers to gain experience, why stop them? | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:36 Exarl25 wrote: It's a trap! No but seriously, GSL 5 is after the OSL. They will get the GSL players to participate in OSL, then just go back on their word again and not bother with GSL 5 after all. Unless they agree to play in the upcoming GSL then the boycott should continue. They aren't trustworthy. OSL ends at the very end of October. GSL Season 5 Qualifiers will have to be before that because their finals are at IPL in late November. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:38 Aetherial wrote: I wouldn't be surprised that when the OSL is nearly finished KESPA pulls out of GSL season 5 just before it starts... That would look SO bad I doubt any of their sponsor would want that headache. They obviously support KeSPA teams wanting good publicity, and going against a clearly defined statement that can be verified ("We will participate in season 5") is going to be a much bigger issue than going against some "vision" ("We promise to play nice"). | ||
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seansye
United States1722 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:40 MrCon wrote: Wait, they'll join season 5, but next season is season 4, isn't it ? Upcoming season is season 4, yes. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:40 Kiyo. wrote: OSL ends at the very end of October. GSL Season 5 Qualifiers will have to be before that because their finals are at IPL in late November. That's season 4 GSL. GSL 5 Code A prelim most likely starts November. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8304 Posts
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ensign_lee
United States1178 Posts
Still wary of their bullshit, and I would be support of ESF not playing in OSL until Kespa is in GOM, but this is better than nothing. :D | ||
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robert0415
China2 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:36 Exarl25 wrote: It's a trap! No but seriously, GSL 5 is after the OSL. They will get the GSL players to participate in OSL, then just go back on their word again and not bother with GSL 5 after all. Unless they agree to play in the upcoming GSL then the boycott should continue. They aren't trustworthy. That's what I also thought Kespa would do at first but then I thought... they couldn't possibly be THIS stupid. If they pull something like that, I think Blizzard will have a word with them. And there will be huge boycotts. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Yeah so they made an announcement that change nothing. But as long as it makes thread titles like this, it'll work on the masses >< | ||
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:41 ragz_gt wrote: That's season 4 GSL. GSL 5 Code A prelim most likely starts November. No, Season 4 qualifiers are starting in a week. Season 5 qualifiers will be in October as GSL Season 5 has to start in late october/early november. | ||
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Clefairy
1570 Posts
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BgSBendeR
Canada170 Posts
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letthemfree
Vietnam1 Post
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FataLe
New Zealand4494 Posts
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
Regardless, I'm glad this seems to be being resolved, all I wanna do is watch SC2 :3 (Also more Soulkey, he's pretty good) | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:43 Kiyo. wrote: No, Season 4 qualifiers are starting in a week. Season 5 qualifiers will be in October as GSL Season 5 has to start in late october/early november. Wait... so the GSL final at IPL is season 5 final? Oh well | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
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MisterTea
United Kingdom1047 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5536 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:37 Aunvilgod wrote: Not quite but almost. Both can´t survive without the other one. Honestly I think Blizzard needs to destroy KeSPA (As long as KeSPA is not making money with LoL this is possible) and then really act like the big boss in in the business. More like KeSPA needs to destroy blizzard. They killed BW and made a shitty job designing a supposed successor... | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:46 IMABUNNEH wrote: What confuses me is Kespa basically said "We don't think we're ready to paly with you guys JUST yet", and ESF responded with "WELL WE DIDN'T WANNA PLAY WITH YOU ANYWAY". Regardless, I'm glad this seems to be being resolved, all I wanna do is watch SC2 :3 (Also more Soulkey, he's pretty good) That's not what happened at all. Kespa said their players didn't have enough time/didn't want to play in the GSL yet they've been saying they want to. I too, just want to watch quality starcraft <3 | ||
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thOr6136
Slovenia1775 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:46 Zandar wrote: Thread title should have the addition ", but not in the upcoming one" +1 I see no reason eSF allowing their players to participate in upcoming OSL, they should also say, ok then we are participating in next OSL, kespa is so shitty -,.- | ||
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Str1keFreedom
United States112 Posts
GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
Kespa skips a season - ESF should skip a season. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
Still have to keep our eye on Kespa though, they're sneaky buggers. | ||
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SeggsyLori
Germany80 Posts
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shineq
United Kingdom1453 Posts
Hoping that KeSPA actually gets scared and doesn't pull this shit anymore. | ||
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AgentChaos
United Kingdom4569 Posts
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
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ShakkaFL
Norway647 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote: GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. | ||
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:48 figq wrote: If ESF don't still pull their players from the current OSL, they've been basically fooled. Don't get yourself fooled, Nestea! Kespa skips a season - ESF should skip a season. Except OSL's are twice the length of GSL's and they're much less common. Also this OSL will end after the GSL S5 qualifiers start, so ESF will still have leverage for a while. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:36 Exarl25 wrote: It's a trap! No but seriously, GSL 5 is after the OSL. They will get the GSL players to participate in OSL, then just go back on their word again and not bother with GSL 5 after all. Unless they agree to play in the upcoming GSL then the boycott should continue. They aren't trustworthy. This. Is my fear as well. And those who scoff at the idea because it's outlandish, bad rep, sponsor-angering, or whatever other negative adjectives will be very surprised going forward =/ | ||
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:48 Str1keFreedom wrote: GUYS THIS ANNOUNCEMENT DOES NOT CHANGE A THING!! Their statement was They will join season 5. Not they will join future seasons. The schedule problem is bull. GSL is known to make schedule accommodations for their players. Also there are players in Kespa that have not qualified for OSL, GSL, WCG, etc... Why stop them from joining GSL huh? GSL players have far more difficult schedules due to foreign tournaments. It is all play on words. Nothing is changed until kespa signs a contract that allow their players to join tournaments freely. Don't think it is over people!!! I'm /facepalming for a few pages now. Indeed, it doesn't change ANYTHING to what they planned to do... What matters is Season 4. If ESF isn't stupid, they will attend the OSL once Kespa will attend the GSL... | ||
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MisterTea
United Kingdom1047 Posts
Only thinking of themselves | ||
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Str1keFreedom
United States112 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:49 Talin wrote: That is never going to happen and is an absurd thing to demand. What is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
how you know they change mind before GSL 5 and yes why isnt kespa allowing ANYONE to participate, only the best will play in the kespa events but not even b teamers are allowed to travel to mlg and co ? dudes thats so bad they NEED a contract that players and/or teams are allowed to choose FREE what tournaments they will join ... kespa is to strong blizzard need to stop them | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:48 figq wrote: If ESF don't still pull their players from the current OSL, they've been basically fooled. Don't get yourself fooled, Nestea! Kespa skips a season - ESF should skip a season. I like the word folded or conceded more in that case. If they did nothing it would look very bad on them. | ||
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
I hope Elly is ok. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
First they decide not to participate in the GSL, a huge company like KESPA undoubtedly considered the consequences of that decision. ESF does what they were likely to do, Blizzard was going to make an announcement regarding this and suddenly they decide it wasn't a good idea. Is it likely that Blizzard told KESPA to STFU and do what's best for ESPORTS? Only thing I can think of. Oh edit; I only just read it was for GSL 5 instead of 4.. S | ||
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jakethesnake
Canada4948 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:51 MisterTea wrote: "We made decision based upon our wish to hold Auction All-Kill Starleague Round of 16 on 28th without trouble," and added, "We do not wish for another disruption in our leagues. Only thinking of themselves Yeah, that part got me too. It almost sounds like a subtle threat. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote: Why is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:52 Bojas wrote: Am I the only one who is confused by this decision? First they decide not to participate in the GSL, a huge company like KESPA undoubtedly considered the consequences of that decision. ESF does what they were likely to do, Blizzard was going to make an announcement regarding this and suddenly they decide it wasn't a good idea. Is it likely that Blizzard told KESPA to STFU and do what's best for ESPORTS? Only thing I can think of. If there is one thing KeSPA did it was buy more time. | ||
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Legace
Sweden342 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:52 Bojas wrote: Am I the only one who is confused by this decision? First they decide not to participate in the GSL, a huge company like KESPA undoubtedly considered the consequences of that decision. ESF does what they were likely to do, Blizzard was going to make an announcement regarding this and suddenly they decide it wasn't a good idea. Is it likely that Blizzard told KESPA to STFU and do what's best for ESPORTS? Only thing I can think of. they said no one will play in gsl4 now they only say gsl 5 is ok, they still not allow them to play in the next gsl upcoming ... wcs helped sooo much to promote the kespa teams in the world, 100 times more then proleague can with only kespa guys. so gsl would be perfect to make guys like reality a name and when they start playing in gsl it seems they not want reality or some iother semi skilled gamer to be the top it seems they want flash jaedong etc to be the best | ||
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
If Kespa think they can get away with their usual shit no problem, they are mistaken. | ||
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Str1keFreedom
United States112 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote: It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:53 Talin wrote: It's absurd because teams don't work that way and players don't get to do whatever they want. It's what makes the teams good, and it's what makes their players good. If you want to force them to function like western/GOM teams instead of functioning like genuine progaming teams, you don't even need Kespa teams in the first place. and thats the point, we do NOT need kespa teams ^^ we need the PLAYERS the TEAMS but not really kespa ... its to powerfull and not really usefull in sc2... | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote: You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. exaclty, its that some players REALLY WANT to play in gom and kespa is scared they not play in the "lower" kespa tournament upcoming when they are gsl gosus anytime, they are scared loosing all players to gom they are just god damn scared about being useless anytime soon | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:38 Kreb wrote: I just wonder why players cant decide for themselves. If players think PL + OSL + WCS + more is already too much and dont want to try GSL on top of that, then, you know, they just have to not show up at Code A qualifiers. If others (and this is likely different from player to player) consider themselves to have enough time, or maybe just wanna go to the qualifiers to gain experience, why stop them? Yeah, and that's the point that KeSPA didn't address. Below are my personal thoughts and opinions on this, not translations: I think a lot of KeSPA players would have had the time to participate in GSL S4 - especially for teams not participating in the playoffs. However, there are still 6 teams that could earn a playoff spot (Ace and KT are out already, I think). Once playoffs are decided, 2 additional teams will have time on their hands to send players to GSL. I'm not sure on the precise dates for all these, but for the benefit of the doubt, let's say that these are decided PRIOR to GSL preliminaries and stuff. I'm thinking actually that ACE cannot participate in GSL since there are strict rules on the ACE players, and they may not be able to play at a non-sanctioned tournament (GSL is not sanctioned by KeSPA / probably not by Ministry of Culture as a result). For the four teams participating the playoffs, as a group they'd like to keep everyone focused on PL playoffs. Roro did say he wanted to try out GSL, but even if he was eligible to, I think the team would have pressured him into preparing for the playoffs. PL is serious business for these teams - sponsors want their team to win, obviously, and it's been well known for a long time that the entire team (incl. B-teamers) practice hard. The players with names we know are paid salaries (out of the sponsors' pockets) and I'm sure they don't want to lose their stable income. As much as KeSPA has betrayed our trust in the past and made all sorts of nonsense decisions, I really think they were trying to protect PL as much as possible with the pulling out of GSL S4. We have to remind ourselves that PL is still a hybrid-league, i.e. SCBW + SC2, and practice is probably going to be harder than ever. I don't know how much the SC2 maps overlap between GSL S4 and SKPL, but I'm going with the general assumption that the two leagues don't use the same set of maps. So all in all, a selfish but understandable move by KeSPA, badly managed communications and PR (KeSPA should have released an apology + explanation statement before GOM did), GOM could have reduced the bitter tone in their statement to "win" this situation outright, ESF made a smart move by showing KeSPA that there will be consequences to selfish actions, and KeSPA made the last-minute surrender and promised participation in season 5. If we didn't blow this out of proportions, it could have just been a slightly hostile but resolved case of negotiations. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:54 CoR wrote: they said no one will play in gsl4 now they only say gsl 5 is ok, they still not allow them to play in the next gsl upcoming ... wcs helped sooo much to promote the kespa teams in the world, 100 times more then proleague can with only kespa guys. so gsl would be perfect to make guys like reality a name and when they start playing in gsl it seems they not want reality or some iother semi skilled gamer to be the top it seems they want flash jaedong etc to be the best of course they dont want that. wathc the wcs matches...so many people and especially fangirls go there because they wanna see their idol. its not just good for kespa that and promoting themselves if they participate in gsl. they also give the gsl alot more viewers | ||
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Inviteme
United States165 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:55 Str1keFreedom wrote: You are not forcing anyone to play their games in Gom. You are giving them the rights to join if their time allows them to do so. Kespa players publicly spoke about joining GSL and they wished to compete in it. It is not Gom forcing anything to players. Open your eyes. It is Kespa who is "forcing" players against their will. As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here. | ||
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rasnj
United States1959 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:50 Kiyo. wrote: Except OSL's are twice the length of GSL's and they're much less common. Also this OSL will end after the GSL S5 qualifiers start, so ESF will still have leverage for a while. The current OSL and GSL season 4 ends about the same time (27th and 20th of October respectively) so if KeSPA players will not participate until after GSL season 4, then it is appropriate that ESF players not participate until after OSL season 1. Yes OSLs are longer, but ESF players are only pulling out of the second round of OSL (i.e. ro16 and onwards) which takes that same time as a GSL season. In any case it is not like ESF has any smaller measure they can take which KeSPA will care about. ESF are not the bad ones here and KeSPA is almost forcing them to react this way. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote: As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. Well basicaly people from different company threatened to disrupt on going event just so Kespa won't use their own rights on their own employees. Thank god no one is monitoring this shit. But yea #Free Elephants from ZOO. If Kespa did wrong, ESF did horrendous thing. | ||
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote: As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here. You're pretty crazy. If they don't "blackmail" then KeSPA ends up with all the cards. | ||
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Soma Cruz
United States209 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:00 Talin wrote: As if GOM won't throw a fit and start up another drama rampage if only the B teamers "decide" to compete in GSL. They're going to bitch until they see Flash, JD and Bisu in it whether they want to or not. What gives you the right to dictate how companies use their employees anyway? Kespa players are used to the ways the teams work, they signed the appropriate contracts, and if they're having such a terrible time, they can always leave the moment their contracts expire. Hell, they could have left and transitioned to SC2 AGES ago. It's mind boggling how people don't get that GOM/ESF is the one doing the blackmailing here. Even Koreans don't see it that way? You really think ESF is doing the blackmailing? They're responding to their threat to self-preservation, KeSPA is trying to kill off GOM again. You're right that GOM won't be happy if the A-teamers don't participate - so what? Do you think OSL will mean as much if you have ESF B-teamers only participating? KeSPA is acting like a dick, pulling out every time while complaining about scheduling or whatever. No one is saying KeSPA should force its teams to participate. But individuals like Roro have already stated they want to participate and weren't allowed to. Ignorant fanboy. I forgot you're the person who always shits on EG too. What a clueless individual. | ||
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mememolly
4765 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:08 mememolly wrote: half-assed from KEspa and they still try to make out that they are not being cunts I bet they'll suddenly participate in GSL 4 when ESF still refuses to participate in the inaugural SC2 OSL. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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Silentenigma
Turkey2037 Posts
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:10 Bagration wrote: Wait, wasn't all this chaos started because Kespa wasn't participating in Season 4? So basically Kespa is ceding a bit by promising to participate in Season 5, but I don't think this solves the main issue yet. Everyone apart from the few kespa fanboys on teamliquid knows that , Korean netizens are still telling the ESF to not participate, Mr Chae release a twit on the situation about how Kespa would fuck gom again. | ||
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Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote: Even Koreans don't see it that way? You really think ESF is doing the blackmailing? They're responding to their threat to self-preservation, KeSPA is trying to kill off GOM again. What threat? Their players playing in OSL for one season while Kespa doesn't play in GSL isn't going to kill anything, that's ridiculous. If they see that Kespa is intentionally boycotting GSL, they can not participate in the next OSL if it bothers them. But pulling out of a tournament they already joined and clearly intended to play is a dick move. On August 24 2012 23:08 FairForever wrote: No one is saying KeSPA should force its teams to participate. But individuals like Roro have already stated they want to participate and weren't allowed to. He can leave KHAN and participate in anything he wants. If the players are so unhappy as you say, this will happen and Kespa teams will die out within a year because nobody will want to play there. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen, but we'll see. | ||
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Azera
3800 Posts
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
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InVerno
258 Posts
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:19 InVerno wrote: Promises ? Ok, so ESF players will partecipate at OSL2, but not this. Wtf, its not a question about "who is the evil" its not even a "fair trade". Kespa always want the upperhand? I agreed when people say the problem is the players freedom, but its not a thing that could change in hours, so, for now this deal is unfair and suspicious. The saddest thing is no one from Kespa teams is standing up for themselves.. | ||
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:20 ImNightmare wrote: The saddest thing is no one from Kespa teams is standing up for themselves.. Where is Boxer? He seems like the perfect player representative for the Kespa teams (even if he is not a player himself). | ||
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
Bickering... threats to boycott... fine, whatever. Just don't fucking do it in public view and in the media. Meet. Reach agreement. Publish statement. | ||
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sam05396
United States783 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:11 imPermanenCe wrote: Lol, I guess the threat worked out for them. Seems the GSL players will now keep playing in the OSL. would be stupid of them too | ||
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:16 Talin wrote: What threat? Their players playing in OSL for one season while Kespa doesn't play in GSL isn't going to kill anything, that's ridiculous. If they see that Kespa is intentionally boycotting GSL, they can not participate in the next OSL if it bothers them. But pulling out of a tournament they already joined and clearly intended to play is a dick move. He can leave KHAN and participate in anything he wants. If the players are so unhappy as you say, this will happen and Kespa teams will die out within a year because nobody will want to play there. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen, but we'll see. No this will not, because they won't be paid then. And since they will be forced to avoid ESF teams (due to the contract they signed), they won't be able to do "what they want". And if GSL players play in this OSL and not in the next ones, but Kespa doesn't allow its players to play in the GSL, then Kespa will have succeeded fucking totally GOMTV and ESF by not only getting money alone based on the Kespa vs ESF storyline, but also impose themselves on the SC2 scene which they would've locked in the process. Basically, they will get money + supremacy from a scene they didn't even contribute to build. I would call that robbery and disrepect, in a way. | ||
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:16 Talin wrote: What threat? Their players playing in OSL for one season while Kespa doesn't play in GSL isn't going to kill anything, that's ridiculous. If they see that Kespa is intentionally boycotting GSL, they can not participate in the next OSL if it bothers them. But pulling out of a tournament they already joined and clearly intended to play is a dick move. 3 months from now OGN is much stronger as an SC2 league, and is the only league with kespa/esf rivalry players. There's no reason for them to give up that market position without a fight. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:22 Assirra wrote: Where is Boxer? He seems like the perfect player representative for the Kespa teams (even if he is not a player himself). Boxer is currently under Kespa..lol, but his recent tweet seems to be a tweet that is supportive of the ESF. | ||
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nebula.
Sweden1431 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +  | ||
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
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sam05396
United States783 Posts
thank god for what? this does not solve anything | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Thanks nestea | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:22 Ragnarork wrote: No this will not, because they won't be paid then. And since they will be forced to avoid ESF teams (due to the contract they signed), they won't be able to do "what they want". Wait, what contract? How would they be forced to avoid ESF teams? -_- Once they leave they can do whatever they want. Like mvp, Supernova and ForGG did. On August 24 2012 23:23 SimDawg wrote: 3 months from now OGN is much stronger as an SC2 league, and is the only league with kespa/esf rivalry players. There's no reason for them to give up that market position without a fight. If they were so paranoid, they shouldn't have joined OSL in the first place (or at least until Kespa players started playing GSL) and everything would be fine. But this nonsense about "player freedom" and trying to dictate how someone else's teams should be run internally and claiming the moral high ground is bullshit. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:23 ImNightmare wrote: Boxer is currently under Kespa..lol, but his recent tweet seems to be a tweet that is supportive of the ESF. Which is exactly why he could represent the kespa players, he is under kespa themselves atm and he been their for years. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:28 Assirra wrote: Which is exactly why he could represent the kespa players, he is under kespa themselves atm and he been their for years. -_- Do you know what you are talking about? That would be a conflict of interest. Boxer is a employee now he is technically working for Kespa. Going against kespa and standing up for the teams is not what a employee would do. | ||
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tsiisus
Finland854 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:28 Talin wrote: Wait, what contract? How would they be forced to avoid ESF teams? -_- Once they leave they can do whatever they want. Like mvp, Supernova and ForGG did. If they were so paranoid, they shouldn't have joined OSL in the first place (or at least until Kespa players started playing GSL) and everything would be fine. you sir, are ignorant. User was warned for this post | ||
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Heathen
Philippines351 Posts
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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furo
Germany449 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:16 Epoxide wrote: Happy it got solved so quickly. I hope we see minimal of this. wow you are naive | ||
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InVerno
258 Posts
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Bippzy
United States1466 Posts
Gogo eSF ! Idk what to do about OSL, we'lll see what they do and judge from there | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:51 Str1keFreedom wrote: What is so absurd to allow players to choose the tournaments they wish to join as long as it does not interfere with their own events? What is so absurd about giving no name Kespa players chance at another tournament qualification? It's absurd because sponsors wanna see a controlled environment. Freedom of movement is what the ESF players/teams have and look at the shit sponsors most of them have? Remember Zenex coach posting on TL saying his team was "open to sponsorship?" We we need is a middle ground so sponsors can feel confident where they put their money and players don't work in a gulag. | ||
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Mauldo
United States750 Posts
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Iberville
Canada207 Posts
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sam05396
United States783 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:38 Mauldo wrote: I've figured it out. I don't think KESPA actually understands what the problem is. That has to be it. Because this "concession" didn't actually solve anything. The original grievance of ESF isn't satisfied, but I'm sure KESPA actually think it is. I'm going to go beat my head against my desk. Maybe that'll help me understand. if esf participates in osl i would be doing the same | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:40 Iberville wrote: Yet another episode in the soap opera that is esports and SC2. Yep and maybe the best one so far, although season 2 episode 3 where korea boycotted NASL was quite good too. Only thing i hate about it is the huge cliffhanger. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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setmeal
162 Posts
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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Timerly
Germany511 Posts
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:54 setmeal wrote: Need to get Blizzard as middleman to get both of them to sign a contract. If Kespa pulls out again, instant ban on Bnet so that they cannot even run their own tournaments Blizzard can never be middleman when KeSPA is one of the sides. | ||
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zyzq
United States3123 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:54 setmeal wrote: Need to get Blizzard as middleman to get both of them to sign a contract. If Kespa pulls out again, instant ban on Bnet so that they cannot even run their own tournaments Blizzard kind of needs KeSPA in order to become popular in Korea | ||
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Fleuria
England466 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:38 Condor Hero wrote: It's absurd because sponsors wanna see a controlled environment. Freedom of movement is what the ESF players/teams have and look at the shit sponsors most of them have? Remember Zenex coach posting on TL saying his team was "open to sponsorship?" We we need is a middle ground so sponsors can feel confident where they put their money and players don't work in a gulag. that was when the scene was pretty weak and the sponsors in korea really didn't know the direction in which sc2 was going and they didnt want to invest in kespa(look at team8 still team8) last few months esF teams have gotten way more major deals, LG, redbull etc. | ||
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starojda
Czech Republic246 Posts
. One can be surprised, how e-sports relates to politics with its drama, background motives and great load of cash. | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:58 Fleuria wrote: that was when the scene was pretty weak and the sponsors in korea really didn't know the direction in which sc2 was going and they didnt want to invest in kespa(look at team8 still team8) last few months esF teams have gotten way more major deals, LG, redbull etc. How about oGs disbanding? | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
oGs only had a local food store to support them. ZeNEX had none. NSHoseo seems to be in trouble too. TSL has minor company sponsors, as well as SlayerS and MVP. IM has LG AND Coca Cola supporting them, while Startale has Redbull. Fnatic, Complexity, EG and FXO have foreigner money, so they're in no trouble. If you take the fact that sponsors seem to flutter to teams with more star players like they should, then the amount of sponsors showing up to each individual team makes sense. For eSF teams, the onus is on the players themselves to make sure that their teams obtain better sponsorship deals. They need to promote their teams more and show better results, like IM and Startale are doing. | ||
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Ghrimnar
Germany260 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:15 X3GoldDot wrote: ESF should say that they wont participate in this osl and only in the next osl as well lol Exactly. I'm not biased in any form i just want to see good games. But Kespa trying to grab the whole scene for their own is just terrible for the community. | ||
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Zer atai
United States691 Posts
Please eSports Federation, make them play in Season 4. The preliminaries take up 3 days at the most. | ||
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Shadow_Dog
Canada427 Posts
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
Moreover, I'm not sure that I would have complete confidence in KeSPA at this point. Would still very possibly feel obligated to not participate in the first OS2L. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:25 Shadow_Dog wrote: eSF should demand that the 4 teams that are not in the playoffs should go to Code A qualifiers. If not, they continue to stay out of OSL. Nah, that would be forcing the players to play and equally unreasonable. They should demand to allow anybody who is interested to participate in the qualifiers. Though the if the teams have a concer about the participating players underperforming in other tournaments, how about allowing each Kespa player the participation in one individual tournament of his choice (i.e. he could try out for A, if that fails he could try out for B and if that works he will not be allowed to try out for the rest). That way each player has enough time to fulfill his obligations towards the team without being denied the opportunity for his breakthrough individual performance. edit: On August 25 2012 00:32 Nuclease wrote: Hopefully this means that the GOM players can step back into OGN safely. But it might be too late. Moreover, I'm not sure that I would have complete confidence in KeSPA at this point. Would still very possibly feel obligated to not participate in the first OS2L. The players under ESF claimed that they will participate in Kespa sanctioned leagues as soon as Kespa drops its blockade of the GSL, which they haven't done yet (Kespa players are not allowed to sign up for the upcoming qualifiers). They will drop it after the upcoming season is finished (or as the upcoming season is already underway), but either way it will be too late for the OSL. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:28 Talin wrote: Wait, what contract? How would they be forced to avoid ESF teams? -_- Once they leave they can do whatever they want. Like mvp, Supernova and ForGG did. If they were so paranoid, they shouldn't have joined OSL in the first place (or at least until Kespa players started playing GSL) and everything would be fine. But this nonsense about "player freedom" and trying to dictate how someone else's teams should be run internally and claiming the moral high ground is bullshit. So because you're saying KeSPA lied to the ESF and GOM about playing in Season 4, ESF should still keep their conditional commitment to KeSPA to play in the OSL? 1) ESF players are not FORCED to play. They can choose to withdraw at any time. 2) They played on the assumption that KeSPA players would participate in the GSL. Seeing as how KeSPA breached this initially, choosing to hold out of the OSL is not an unreasonable decision. Since you're so big on "player freedom", ESF players should have the freedom to back out of the OSL. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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kochujang
Germany1226 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Plenty more to come. | ||
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odaxium
United States356 Posts
Kespa are still not going to participate in GSL4 and they get ESF plays to continue OSL | ||
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stangstang
Canada281 Posts
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MiThiK
Canada13 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:37 odaxium wrote: So this doesn't actually change anything. Kespa are still not going to participate in GSL4 and they get ESF plays to continue OSL Well ESF hasn't said that they will play in OSL. So we'll see what happens. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:32 Nuclease wrote: Hopefully this means that the GOM players can step back into OGN safely. But it might be too late. Moreover, I'm not sure that I would have complete confidence in KeSPA at this point. Would still very possibly feel obligated to not participate in the first OS2L. I hope not. They should wait until they know KESPA is actually doing what they are promising. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:37 odaxium wrote: So this doesn't actually change anything. Kespa are still not going to participate in GSL4 and they get ESF plays to continue OSL Kespa basically announced that it will participate in the GSL season 5. Kespa laid down a concrete time where they will participate in GSL. It's a victory for the esf. They should take it and return to the OSL. For the fans. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
*monotone yay* But seriously this is awesome . I may actually buy a GSL ticket for the first time lol so I can watch all of the games. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
Nothing is changed from the current predicament. If KeSPA really wanted to make amends, they would participate in THIS season, which is season 4, NOT 5. KEEP YOUR PITCHFORKS UP, FOLKS! | ||
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Proseat
Germany5113 Posts
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Tiegrr
United States607 Posts
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: And there was much rejoicing! *monotone yay* But seriously this is awesome . I may actually buy a GSL ticket for the first time lol so I can watch all of the games. | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:50 figq wrote: Imagine, Kespa didn't publish any statement about not participating in GSL 4, but because of schedule conflicts, team obligations and PL, only few, not top-notch Kespa players took part in the GSL. It would have been still fine! Even though, technically, that shows disrespect to the GSL, it would not have caused all this trouble. We would have gotten a few elephant matches to discuss, Kespa teams would've managed with PL fine etc. Why did they have to create such a major statement and totalitarian position of it. Honestly, KeSPA's logic is all around stupid. "we have three players in WCS, four teams in PL and 8 players in OSL, so we decided to forbid every player participation in GSL" | ||
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:45 MstrJinbo wrote: Kespa basically announced that it will participate in the GSL season 5. Kespa laid down a concrete time where they will participate in GSL. It's a victory for the esf. They should take it and return to the OSL. For the fans. If you knew anything about Kespa and its history, you would not be saying that... Kespa annoucing that it will participate in the GSL season 5 does not mean it has to. Kespa can and will break its "promise" to see GSL flop. It's not a victory for the esf. until Kespa participates in the current GSL season 4. | ||
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
Why, just why?? T_T I quote one of the greatest comedies made, and you bring up this show for 10 year-old girls. Why, I implore?  | ||
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sam05396
United States783 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:45 MstrJinbo wrote: Kespa basically announced that it will participate in the GSL season 5. Kespa laid down a concrete time where they will participate in GSL. It's a victory for the esf. They should take it and return to the OSL. For the fans. ur kidding right? all they wanted is the kespa vs gom player storyline for themselves and they will still be getting it and they will just pull out at season 6, what ur saying will kill gom | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
cmon | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:49 Frost wrote: If you knew anything about Kespa and its history, you would not be saying that... Kespa annoucing that it will participate in the GSL season 5 does not mean it has to. Kespa can and will break its "promise" to see GSL flop. It's not a victory for the esf. until Kespa participates in the current GSL season 4. I want the sc2 OSL to go forward. So I'm perfectly fine with giveing Kespa the benefit of the doubt on this one while keeping my trident close at hand. | ||
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howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
Whether or not this is true or not, though, is a different issue altogether. | ||
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CuteZergling
641 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
"When KeSPA is in ashes, you have my permission to [broadcast SC2]". | ||
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Ketroc
Canada74 Posts
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howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:55 MstrJinbo wrote: I want the sc2 OSL to go forward. So I'm perfectly fine with giveing Kespa the benefit of the doubt on this one while keeping my trident close at hand. Yeah I think this resolves the issue for now and allows for everyone to participate in OSL. They can boycott the next OSL if KeSPA indeed doesn't participate in GSL 5, but for now I think it would be very detrimental to the scene if they wouldn't play in the first SC2 OSL. They got a concrete date, I think that's all that's needed for now. | ||
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sam05396
United States783 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:55 MstrJinbo wrote: I want the sc2 OSL to go forward. So I'm perfectly fine with giveing Kespa the benefit of the doubt on this one while keeping my trident close at hand. ur not keeping ur trident close at hand ur giving it to kespa then sitting there tied up in front of them | ||
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nickbalev
Bulgaria241 Posts
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sam05396
United States783 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:58 howLiN wrote: Yeah I think this resolves the issue for now and allows for everyone to participate in OSL. They can boycott the next OSL if KeSPA indeed doesn't participate in GSL 5, but for now I think it would be very detrimental to the scene if they wouldn't play in the first SC2 OSL. They got a concrete date, I think that's all that's needed for now. so its good for you for someone to release a statement that they will play... u must want to see gom crumble | ||
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:56 Ketroc wrote: So OSL finishes before GSL season 5, right? Good thing Kespa has a reputation of never breaking a promise. KeSPA could just always exert heavy pressure on individual teams or players to defer participation--make sure only unpopular players participate, while reserving Flash/JD/Bisu to participate in their own OSL and Proleague. Such pressure would be invisible, and be something the fans themselves could not really change. After all, money talks, and right now the best KeSPA players still earn much more than their GOM counterparts. What's more, KeSPA is essentially composed of many large Korean companies (Samsung and SK Telecom foremost among them), so it's not like the Korean government will be sympathetic to GOM. | ||
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Crow!
United States150 Posts
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:55 MstrJinbo wrote: I want the sc2 OSL to go forward. So I'm perfectly fine with giveing Kespa the benefit of the doubt on this one while keeping my trident close at hand. Of course everyone wants OSL to go forward, but it will be at the expense of GSL. And I assure you if Kespa gets what it wants, GSL will no longer exist. Btw, keeping your "trident" close at hand is not gonna do shit since you have nothing to influence anything that will happen in E-sports in Korea. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:55 MstrJinbo wrote: I want the sc2 OSL to go forward. So I'm perfectly fine with giveing Kespa the benefit of the doubt on this one while keeping my trident close at hand. No you shouldn't be fine. If Kespa is not fought with everything the community got. GSL and GOMTV will die. No Korean players will participate in international tournaments. 2 years of work to create one of the most global Esports is gone. ESF cant and should not cave. Kespa has to join GSL now or no deal and GOMTV and KESPA needs to make a contract to make sure it happens | ||
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howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:00 sam05396 wrote: so its good for you for someone to release a statement that they will play... u must want to see gom crumble Uh no, I'm saying that for now KeSPA announcing that they're playing in GSL 5 should suffice. If they don't play in GSL 5 then I'm fine with all hell breaking loose, because there actually are legitimate reasons for KeSPA players not to try to go play in GSL right now. But if it happens two times in a row, I think it's pretty clear that KeSPA doesn't want to allow its players to play in GSL. Right now it's not clear. | ||
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On August 25 2012 00:56 Ketroc wrote: So OSL finishes before GSL season 5, right? Good thing Kespa has a reputation of never breaking a promise. No. GSL Qualifiers should be around the same time as OSL is ending. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
I for myself will go on to support GOMTV by buying their product, with or without KESPA players. And everyone who is interested in korean SC2 should do the same! | ||
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howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:03 Kiyo. wrote: No. GSL Qualifiers should be around the same time as OSL is ending. By that time there should be like 4 players left in the OSL (and probably all from GOM), so there really isn't an excuse not to allow KeSPA players to play in GSL 5 qualifiers. | ||
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Michaels
419 Posts
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Ghoststrikes
Canada1356 Posts
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pms
Poland611 Posts
Seriously - ESF should do this exactly | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
It's called the Global Dishwasher's League for a reason. While all this fighting has been tearjerking, it's just delaying the inevitable. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:05 Ghoststrikes wrote: I hope the ESL maintains their stand in relation to OSL, or at least say they will participate in the next one too. Do no cave in! DO it for foreigner, do it for Gom! I know I will be watching the fuck out of GSL season 4! Unfortunately foreigners are not the main thing here. The Korean market is still a lot more important and GOM has much less traction there. You should still remember that OGN is pretty much how 90% of Korean progaming gets watched (regardless of what game it is). | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
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Felvo
United States124 Posts
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Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:07 Felvo wrote: I like how the actions are a lot more swift now compared to previous years. It might also just be kespa knowing that the international esports scene is too big now to simply ignore. International eSports is still pretty small in terms of ad dollars compared to Korea. Lots of latent potential though | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:07 Rabiator wrote: Personally I think they had withdrawn to give their players more time to prepare and train. The comparisons in the WCS matches have shown that not that many are good enough yet to compete at the true top level and that there is a certain lack of experience which really takes time to overcome. I want to hear what Boxer thinks about this. | ||
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Ghoststrikes
Canada1356 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:06 Shady Sands wrote: Unfortunately foreigners are not the main thing here. The Korean market is still a lot more important and GOM has much less traction there. You should still remember that OGN is pretty much how 90% of Korean progaming gets watched (regardless of what game it is). Yes sure Gom has less traction for Korean viewership, but much more for international audience. The game is global, there are big events all over the world, etc. If Kespa/OGN continues to do selfish moves like this they will not gain any support from foreigners, which will be their loss. | ||
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Cornstarched
Canada74 Posts
For the sc2 Community to allow this orginization to do these things, is a joke. We are the INTERNET, and we can do ANYTHING and make corporations/companys/orginizations to do what the mass people want. WE WANT KESPA PLAYERS IN EVERY TOURNY. Period. Incontrol said it right a long time ago. IF i go to an MLG i want to see Bisu or Flash or JayDong. and not allowing thoes players hurts the sc2 community and DE Legitimiz's our Sport. Ban Kespa Dissolve it. Its old news and needs to be reborn into the thing we call the 21st century | ||
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RedBlargh
99 Posts
Seriously, I was gonna post yesterday in the OSL Tournament day 1 thread saying it'd be awesome if the GSL players didn't show up to stick it to Kespa for not cooperating, but i figured i'd get banned and the chances of that actually happening to be unlikely. Still though, wasn't it expected for Kespa players to participate in Season 5 GSL if they didn't come for Season 4? That just implies that Kespa was planning on not allowing their players to attend GOM tournaments for quite a while... I gotta agree with what someone said earlier, it's either season 4 or bust for Kespa. | ||
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:10 Ghoststrikes wrote: Yes sure Gom has less traction for Korean viewership, but much more for international audience. The game is global, there are big events all over the world, etc. If Kespa/OGN continues to do selfish moves like this they will not gain any support from foreigners, which will be their loss. And you need to understand Kespa does not care about losses involving foreigners and has zero interest in listening to opinions outside of Korea. It's the market in Korea that it cares about and that is why what ESF is doing right now is so important. ESF needs to continue to hold their position until Kespa gives in. | ||
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Thinasy
2856 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:12 Cornstarched wrote: Here is the quick and 3 week Fix. ALL tournaments in the world, BAN KESPA. If the players want to play they can leave that team or orginization or whatever the hell kespa truly is.Basicly a huge boycott. I never watched any sc1, and now learning about this kespa thing forcing players to do things, is why sc1 never made it big in the world. For the sc2 Community to allow this orginization to do these things, is a joke. We are the INTERNET, and we can do ANYTHING and make corporations/companys/orginizations to do what the mass people want. WE WANT KESPA PLAYERS IN EVERY TOURNY. Period. Incontrol said it right a long time ago. IF i go to an MLG i want to see Bisu or Flash or JayDong. and not allowing thoes players hurts the sc2 community and DE Legitimiz's our Sport. Ban Kespa Dissolve it. Its old news and needs to be reborn into the thing we call the 21st century Sigh. 3 week "Fix", are you serious? You are aware that if these players would "leave" kespa, they would also leave their teams, these teams arent any foreign or current GSTL Team, these teams actually have alot of money and big sponsors. | ||
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TriZen
England219 Posts
I'm hoping the OSL can go ahead as normal now, and that for the time being Kespa can play friendly with everyone else! | ||
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Michaels
419 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:12 Cornstarched wrote: Here is the quick and 3 week Fix. ALL tournaments in the world, BAN KESPA. If the players want to play they can leave that team or orginization or whatever the hell kespa truly is.Basicly a huge boycott. I never watched any sc1, and now learning about this kespa thing forcing players to do things, is why sc1 never made it big in the world. For the sc2 Community to allow this orginization to do these things, is a joke. We are the INTERNET, and we can do ANYTHING and make corporations/companys/orginizations to do what the mass people want. WE WANT KESPA PLAYERS IN EVERY TOURNY. Period. Incontrol said it right a long time ago. IF i go to an MLG i want to see Bisu or Flash or JayDong. and not allowing thoes players hurts the sc2 community and DE Legitimiz's our Sport. Ban Kespa Dissolve it. Its old news and needs to be reborn into the thing we call the 21st century JAYDONG | ||
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-niL
Canada1131 Posts
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:12 Cornstarched wrote: Here is the quick and 3 week Fix. ALL tournaments in the world, BAN KESPA. If the players want to play they can leave that team or orginization or whatever the hell kespa truly is.Basicly a huge boycott. I never watched any sc1, and now learning about this kespa thing forcing players to do things, is why sc1 never made it big in the world. For the sc2 Community to allow this orginization to do these things, is a joke. We are the INTERNET, and we can do ANYTHING and make corporations/companys/orginizations to do what the mass people want. WE WANT KESPA PLAYERS IN EVERY TOURNY. Period. Incontrol said it right a long time ago. IF i go to an MLG i want to see Bisu or Flash or JayDong. and not allowing thoes players hurts the sc2 community and DE Legitimiz's our Sport. Ban Kespa Dissolve it. Its old news and needs to be reborn into the thing we call the 21st century You do know KeSPA was born in 21st century, do you? By this standard, KeSPA qualifies. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:15 TriZen wrote: Well played to ESF, great move sticking up for GOM and a great statement from them.. I'm hoping the OSL can go ahead as normal now, and that for the time being Kespa can play friendly with everyone else! KeSPA is going to remember this btw. I wouldn't be surprised if they do the death squeeze on the GSL by simply getting their most popular players to not participate. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:05 xrapture wrote: Dishwasher referred to the players participating and the relation to the function they had in bw teams, not the league (quality). I don't care what gom is to you, or what you may foresee, please don't go mixing things up.Eh, to me, Gom just seemed like an amateur league to hold the reigns until Kespa switched to SC2. It's called the Global Dishwasher's League for a reason. While all this fighting has been tearjerking, it's just delaying the inevitable. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
Bert: What the fuck Ernie i thought you were attending. I ain't ever going to your parties ever again. Ernie: Bert! I'll be at your next one i swear! Bert: __________________________________(fill in the blanks) | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
Honestly, KeSPA is not improving their image one bit. Not showing up at MLG Summer Championship...another blow. Do they know what partnership means? | ||
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coolcor
520 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:18 Shady Sands wrote: KeSPA is going to remember this btw. I wouldn't be surprised if they do the death squeeze on the GSL by simply getting their most popular players to not participate. FXOboss is worried on twitter if they participate in season 5 they could leave in the middle to mess up GOM. Though that would only mess up code A so GOM might be able to work around that while code S keeps its integrety. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:22 ShadeR wrote: Ernie: Yo Bert I've been real busy lately i can't make it to your party. Bert: What the fuck Ernie i thought you were attending. I ain't ever going to your parties ever again. Ernie: Bert! I'll be at your next one i swear! Bert: __________________________________(fill in the blanks) Bert: But you said the exact same thing last time! | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:26 Taku wrote: Wait so ESF does the same thing as KESPA in controlling where their players play and gets praised O_o lol, ESF is more like a players/team association. The players themselves made this decision (ie. Players like MC, Oz are not in ESF and they sided with GOM.) | ||
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howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:22 ShadeR wrote: Ernie: Yo Bert I've been real busy lately i can't make it to your party. Bert: What the fuck Ernie i thought you were attending. I ain't ever going to your parties ever again. Ernie: Bert! I'll be at your next one i swear! Bert: __________________________________(fill in the blanks) "You've been busy for the last five fucking years!" | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:30 vthree wrote: lol, ESF is more like a players/team association. The players themselves made this decision (ie. Players like MC, Oz are not in ESF and they sided with GOM.) And on top of that, it was done in retaliation, not the aggressor. | ||
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TheWorldToCome
United States452 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:26 Taku wrote: Wait so ESF does the same thing as KESPA in controlling where their players play and gets praised O_o ESF decisions are made BY THE PLAYERS. KeSPA's are made by the executives at the top with no consulting of the players. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:28 coolcor wrote: FXOboss is worried on twitter if the participate in season 5 they could leave in the middle to mess up GOM. Though that would only mess up code A so GOM might be able to work around that while code S keeps its integrety. Well, I think ESF players need to win this OSL. If they do, they will get A LOT more leverage. I don't see OSL starting the next season if their defending champ won't participate. | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:22 ShadeR wrote: Ernie: Yo Bert I've been real busy lately i can't make it to your party. Bert: What the fuck Ernie i thought you were attending. I ain't ever going to your parties ever again. Ernie: Bert! I'll be at your next one i swear! Bert: __________________________________(fill in the blanks) Ernie, your dick much bigger and girlfriend much hotter, I'm sorry pal, I overreacted. | ||
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mycro
Sweden1579 Posts
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Lordanubis
United Kingdom198 Posts
If they re-commit to the OSL without getting participation in GSL Season 4 as a return, there's a huge problem here. | ||
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vandelayindustries
United States290 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:05 xrapture wrote: Eh, to me, Gom just seemed like an amateur league to hold the reigns until Kespa switched to SC2. It's called the Global Dishwasher's League for a reason. While all this fighting has been tearjerking, it's just delaying the inevitable. If the GSL seems like an amateur league to you then what is your opinion regarding the professionalism of tournaments like MLG, IPL, etc? | ||
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skAnarky
Canada140 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:19 imallinson wrote: That first article suggests that the reason the Kespa players weren't participating in GSL was scheduling issues. I assume something has been worked out so that it fits with the OSL and SPL schedules. GOM is admittedly much more last minute when it comes to announcing dates for qualifiers and the final dates for tournaments. Sometimes a date isn't announced until just over a week before. If KESPA has a well maintained and set schedule that goes over 4 weeks deep, GOM needs to keep up so that there can be no excuses. This might actually be good for GOM events, as spectators can get more information in advance about events. | ||
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RedBlargh
99 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:22 ShadeR wrote: Ernie: Yo Bert I've been real busy lately i can't make it to your party. Bert: What the fuck Ernie i thought you were attending. I ain't ever going to your parties ever again. Ernie: Bert! I'll be at your next one i swear! Bert: __________________________________(fill in the blanks) Bert: Wait... you weren't planning to come to my next party either? WTF MAN, i thought we were friends, I already came to ur party, I'm just saying I may have to leave early if you don't get ur ass to my party coming up where everyone is expecting u to be at. | ||
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goneim
China201 Posts
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Megiddosc
United States966 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:05 xrapture wrote: Eh, to me, Gom just seemed like an amateur league to hold the reigns until Kespa switched to SC2. It's called the Global Dishwasher's League for a reason. While all this fighting has been tearjerking, it's just delaying the inevitable. Rest assured that your opinion is in the minority, at least in these forums. | ||
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D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:05 xrapture wrote: Eh, to me, Gom just seemed like an amateur league to hold the reigns until Kespa switched to SC2. It's called the Global Dishwasher's League for a reason. While all this fighting has been tearjerking, it's just delaying the inevitable. Lol, you seemed to be butthurt because the supposedly superior game you were supporting with all your heart (BW) just died... Just to clarify, I am all for kespa players doing well in SC2. But I don't see it as Kespa or nothing. We can have two league (OSL and GSL), an unified team league, koreans going to foreign tournaments and the best players (whether Kespa, ESF or foreigners) being able to make a good living and showing us good game. | ||
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pms
Poland611 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:36 Lordanubis wrote: The ESF can't back down here. They absolutely need to, as many others have said, say "Ok, then we're boycotting this OSL but we'll join in next time". If they don't, this whole mess will happen again and KeSPA will have the time they need to ensure they have additional leverage when this DOES happen again. If they re-commit to the OSL without getting participation in GSL Season 4 as a return, there's a huge problem here. Agreed. Hopefully ESF will follow. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
They won't. ESF is a lot less unified than KeSPA is, and I think this move from KeSPA throws just enough doubt into the minds of the player collective that it will keep them from a firm decision like that. | ||
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soiii
Germany266 Posts
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:45 Shady Sands wrote: They won't. ESF is a lot less unified than KeSPA is, and I think this move from KeSPA throws just enough doubt into the minds of the player collective that it will keep them from a firm decision like that. lol, ESF seems pretty unified when they called KeSPA's bluff within 24 hours with commitment from non-ESF players (MC and Oz). If anything, the Kespa players don't seem to like Kespa's call since they were looking forward to the qualifiers. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:48 Kevan wrote: Dustin Browder and Mike Morhaime should fly out there and spank some KeSPA ass. Literally. Kind of not Dustin's responsibility. And unfortunately Mike is probably too busy negotiating the sale of his company to care very much. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:45 Shady Sands wrote: They won't. ESF is a lot less unified than KeSPA is, and I think this move from KeSPA throws just enough doubt into the minds of the player collective that it will keep them from a firm decision like that. KeSPA isn't unified, they just rule with an iron fist. Plenty of players are discontent with this decision, they just can't disobey or they will get the smack down laid upon them. ESF is doing this of their own free will and for self preservation. They likely will not cave. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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Krunked
Sweden63 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:15 X3GoldDot wrote: ESF should say that they wont participate in this osl and only in the next osl as well lol I kinda agree, kespa just seems to be a greedy organisation :/ am i wrong? | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:49 Dosey wrote: KeSPA isn't unified, they just rule with an iron fist. Plenty of players are discontent with this decision, they just can't disobey or they will get the smack down laid upon them. ESF is doing this of their own free will and for self preservation. They likely will not cave. Really? How do you know that? | ||
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Hakanfrog
Sweden690 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:22 ShadeR wrote: Ernie: Yo Bert I've been real busy lately i can't make it to your party. Bert: What the fuck Ernie i thought you were attending. I ain't ever going to your parties ever again. Ernie: Bert! I'll be at your next one i swear! Bert: __________________________________(fill in the blanks) Thanks for the good laugh. | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
Because ESF doesn't have control over their players the same way Kespa does. It would be a lot easier for the pfederation players to ignore ESF and play in OSL, than it would be for Kespa players to ignore Kespa and play in GSL. The ESF also must understand the idea of self-preservation, which is why they requested this decision. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:52 Hakanfrog wrote: I don´t believe them at all. I wouldn´t be suprised at all if the Kespa players will miss the Code A season 5 qualifiers because they had a planned field trip on that day or something. Or maybe they just all lose and crash out of the league? Could be very possible. | ||
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Headnoob
Australia2108 Posts
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Nirel
Israel1526 Posts
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LOLingBuddha
Netherlands697 Posts
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aaycumi
England265 Posts
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:00 aaycumi wrote: That's cool, but a bit delayed. So, GSL back in the OSL? As long as there is no announcement of them discontinuing the boycott, no. | ||
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klops
United States674 Posts
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:14 HolydaKing wrote: Great, and before Season 5 they'll say: No, we have that giant Kespa project and have no time for Season 5. This. Nothing got solved, they got a free passup on GSL4 Kespa wins. You can only play fire with fire, tell OSL you will be there next season. | ||
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klops
United States674 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:33 xrapture wrote: Ernie, your dick much bigger and girlfriend much hotter, I'm sorry pal, I overreacted. unfortunately i don't see this being the response. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
"well attend gsl5" "okay, we'll attend osl next season too. thanks, sorry but our schedule is ...very tight, we have foreign tournaments where... you know... we actually have to fly for 10+ hours but we make due, i'm sure you'll find a way to drive 1 hour to the gom qualifiers in your busy schedules" | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
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stew_
Canada239 Posts
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TumNarDok
Germany854 Posts
All we need is Sundance coming out today.. revealing he is Vince McMahons lost son and OSL and GSL would be 2 different brands of MLG now. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:09 stew_ wrote: one of the first times in korea where the sc2 fanboys unite with bw fanboys to talk shit about kespa You obviously haven't peeked at the other thread with tons of KeSPA fanboys bashing GOM and Blizzard. Ah nvm, you said "in Korea" | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
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Ripeace
34 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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achan1058
1091 Posts
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Lordanubis
United Kingdom198 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:09 TumNarDok wrote: Sorry to say all that korean drama stuff reminded me of a good old #WWE storyline. All we need is Sundance coming out today.. revealing he is Vince McMahons lost son and OSL and GSL would be 2 different brands of MLG now. LOL. What a strange mirror universe it could be. GOM as the major player in WWF. KeSPA as the young upstart intent on driving the competition out of business, in WCW. If the OSL and ProLeague start giving away the results of GOM tournaments, then GOM starts an Attitude Era to respond, it'd be perfect. It's also mean GOM wins in the end, which would be even better  | ||
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
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Tyree
1508 Posts
SC2 has without them, become one of the most popular esport game in the world. It is true that in Korea it has not taken off as much but then again why would Kespa change that? People are mistaking that Kespa will somehow be able to re create the "magic" and get Koreans to watch SC2 in any major capacity, yes they have a few superstars but even guys like Flash and Jaedong are not going to suddenly change the popularity of the game in any meaningful way. Only thing Kespa has going for it is a few superstars and memories of a better era that 100% belongs to Brood War and the players who worked their asses off entertaining the fans. GOM should pull out, Blizzard should deny them SC2 license, either play nice or pack it in. | ||
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stew_
Canada239 Posts
personally, i want ESF to say that "yeah uh we'll also be back for next season's OSL too" fuck kespa. | ||
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nokz88
Brazil1253 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:10 Dosey wrote: You obviously haven't peeked at the other thread with tons of KeSPA fanboys bashing GOM and Blizzard. Ah nvm, you said "in Korea" Yea in Korea we know an asshole not worth defending when we see one. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
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yeeshdontjudgeme
146 Posts
I also call bullshit on their "heavy" schedule. GSL players practically have the harder schedules with their international tournaments and various international team tournaments to go with GSL, GSTL, weeklys. KeSPA has proleague and a bunch of leagues that GSL players ALREADY PARTICIPATE IN. Bullshit. | ||
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Cybel
Germany46 Posts
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YoucriedWolf
Sweden1456 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:19 Tyree wrote: What leverage does Kespa really have here? BW had significantly lower ratings each new year and it ended up with sponsors taking their money elsewhere. Thus the players they have, dont really draw in Korea. SC2 has without them, become one of the most popular esport game in the world. It is true that in Korea it has not taken off as much but then again why would Kespa change that? People are mistaking that Kespa will somehow be able to re create the "magic" and get Koreans to watch SC2 in any major capacity, yes they have a few superstars but even guys like Flash and Jaedong are not going to suddenly change the popularity of the game in any meaningful way. Only thing Kespa has going for it is a few superstars and memories of a better era that 100% belongs to Brood War and the players who worked their asses off entertaining the fans. GOM should pull out, Blizzard should deny them SC2 license, either play nice or pack it in. Kespa has more money, bigger sponsors, a bigger channel and bigger names. | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
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madsweepslol
161 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:19 stew_ wrote: note that they said they will be participating in season 5... which is the season AFTER this upcoming season. personally, i want ESF to say that "yeah uh we'll also be back for next season's OSL too" fuck kespa. I agree. Has ESF stated definitively that they're back in OSL? On August 25 2012 02:28 gedatsu wrote: ESF should now back down and play OSL as originally intended. Following through with their threat will only cause a lot of badwill between the different parties. ESF got what they wanted. Operate as if kespa will do what they promised, and if they don't then just make a larger ruckus next time. There's already badwill from BW when KeSPA demanded payments from GOM and then effectively shut them down. | ||
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stew_
Canada239 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:29 madsweepslol wrote: I agree. Has ESF stated definitively that they're back in OSL? no, no such response yet | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18383 Posts
One tournament has already reached the half way and the other tournament hasnt even started yet. Kespa said they wont participate in GSL BEFORE IT STARTED, ESF is boycotting OSL DURING the tournament. Dont you realise its two different scenarios? | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:32 sharkie wrote: wth are you all comparing GSL and OSL like its the same? One tournament has already reached the half way and the other tournament hasnt even started yet. Kespa said they wont participate in GSL BEFORE IT STARTED, ESF is boycotting OSL DURING the tournament. Dont you realise its two different scenarios? Yes, we do. One is KeSPA being evil. The other is ESF protecting itself from being swallowed. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:28 gedatsu wrote: ESF should now back down and play OSL as originally intended. Following through with their threat will only cause a lot of badwill between the different parties. ESF got what they wanted. Operate as if kespa will do what they promised, and if they don't then just make a larger ruckus next time. back down from what, if they go back and play OSL, then the threat to pull out would have done nothing. the whole point was to get kespa players to play season 4, and kespa is still not doing that. ESF needs to say, ok we will play in OSL when you play GSL. | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
Some have said that pulling out of the Ro16 is worse than what KeSpa did. That's kind of true. But its the only action ESF could take. It was either that or nothing, and doing nothing was far far worse. I hope ESF doesn't back down from this false "concession" by KeSpa. | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:33 zev318 wrote: back down from what, if they go back and play OSL, then the threat to pull out would have done nothing. the whole point was to get kespa players to play season 4, and kespa is still not doing that. ESF needs to say, ok we will play in OSL when you play GSL. The whole point was to get kespa players to play GSL. They're getting that. Mission accomplished. Causing embarrassment for the third party OGN when they already have what they wanted, only means they might not get the chance to play OSL in the future. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:32 sharkie wrote: wth are you all comparing GSL and OSL like its the same? One tournament has already reached the half way and the other tournament hasnt even started yet. Kespa said they wont participate in GSL BEFORE IT STARTED, ESF is boycotting OSL DURING the tournament. Dont you realise its two different scenarios? from the announcement: Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers. and that was on the 23rd. i wouldnt give 2 shits if its now the middle of OSL, if kespa is gonna be a douchebag about letting their players play. kespa players want to play GSL but kespa says no, fuck that shit. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:35 gedatsu wrote: The whole point was to get kespa players to play GSL. They're getting that. Mission accomplished. Causing embarrassment for the third party OGN when they already have what they wanted, only means they might not get the chance to play OSL in the future. What prevents KeSPA from backing out next time or causing issues? | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
OGN & KeSpa brought this on themselves. | ||
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Lordanubis
United Kingdom198 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:35 gedatsu wrote: The whole point was to get kespa players to play GSL. They're getting that. Mission accomplished. Causing embarrassment for the third party OGN when they already have what they wanted, only means they might not get the chance to play OSL in the future. A "we will in future" doesn't constitute anything. It would just mean OGN would get what they want this time, then KeSPA would pull the same thing for Season 5 when they've had months to prepare things enough so that they could reduce and/or weather the storm. I think the ESF players would run the risk of not being allowed to participate in the OSL in future if the alternative is going out of business. And rightly so. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:35 gedatsu wrote: The whole point was to get kespa players to play GSL. They're getting that. Mission accomplished. Causing embarrassment for the third party OGN when they already have what they wanted, only means they might not get the chance to play OSL in the future. ya NEXT season (5), not this upcoming season (4), so what does that change? nothing, kespa is still getting what they want and screwing GSL over. why should GSL let their players keep promoting OSL by playing in it and kespa not having to do the same? | ||
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Dagan159
United States203 Posts
Kespa Bets: The survival of esports. eSF: Raise. Kespa: Fold. | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:36 achan1058 wrote: What prevents KeSPA from backing out next time or causing issues? Nothing. That's why I said this: Operate as if kespa will do what they promised, and if they don't then just make a larger ruckus next time. On August 25 2012 02:38 zev318 wrote: ya NEXT season (5), not this upcoming season (4), so what does that change? nothing, kespa is still getting what they want and screwing GSL over. why should GSL let their players keep promoting OSL by playing in it and kespa not having to do the same? If ESF wants to dictate exactly when kespa will start participating in GSL, they won't have my support. Kespa has said that they will and when they will participate, and it is in the not too distant future. That should definitely be good enough for them. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:24 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote: People should shut up about about KeSPA losing or the war is over. KeSPA was most likely going to participate in Season 5 anyway so this announcement changes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. They're still not participating in Season 4. KeSPA still benefits from GSL + KeSPA players being in their league while GSL gets the shortend. I also call bullshit on their "heavy" schedule. GSL players practically have the harder schedules with their international tournaments and various international team tournaments to go with GSL, GSTL, weeklys. KeSPA has proleague and a bunch of leagues that GSL players ALREADY PARTICIPATE IN. Bullshit. To start, KeSPA did come out saying their players likely were not going to participate in GSL Season 5. Second, ESF players do not necessarily have harder schedules: Currently KeSPA players are particiating in Proleague, OGN Starleague, WCG Korea, and WCS Korea Nationals, and planning to participate in MLG online matches and the MLG Fall Championship. According to KeSPA, it takes approximately 4 days for Proleague, 2 days for OSL, and 2 days for MLG online matches, total of 8 days per week for players. (source) For the vast majority of ESF players, you can replace Proleague with GSTL, add GSL, and drop the MLG stuff. It's arguably a similar work schedule, with only rare exceptions like MC having a higher workload out of personal choice & team obligations (SK Gaming is more international in scope by default). Also to consider is that it's well known that KeSPA players tend to practice far more than ESF players on average; that's a policy difference between KeSPA and ESF. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:38 gedatsu wrote: Nothing. That's why I said this: Operate as if kespa will do what they promised, and if they don't then just make a larger ruckus next time. I don't think that's a wise decision, since this gives significant power to KeSPA. They might not even invite GSL players next time and back out completely. At least right now they are in a bind. | ||
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natrus
United States102 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:38 gedatsu wrote: Nothing. That's why I said this: Operate as if kespa will do what they promised, and if they don't then just make a larger ruckus next time. yes but that weakens the position of esf. dont see that? | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:36 achan1058 wrote: What prevents KeSPA from backing out next time or causing issues? Exactly, promise is not credible. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:43 achan1058 wrote: OSL starts next week, right? If that's the case, ESF might as well play a waiting game and say that the teams are still discussing on what they are going to do, which puts more pressure on KeSPA to compromise more. I don't expect Kespa to give in more than they already gave in. However I still don't think that eSF should give in either. They should stand to their "boycott until Kespa lowers their blockade stance", which sadly will be after the OSL already started. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:47 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't expect Kespa to give in more than they already gave in. However I still don't think that eSF should give in either. They should stand to their "boycott until Kespa lowers their blockade stance", which sadly will be after the OSL already started. That's what I meant by "discussing on what they are going to do". Simply make the deadline slip by "indecision" | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all. You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make. | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote: Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you: Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all. You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make. If they say they come for nr 4 they have to come. If they say they come for nr 5 they dont. The reason is as stupid as is sounds: the average time a guy on tl/reddit/korean forum remembers is 1-2 Month. A lot of stuff can happen until 5 and they can find a lot of "good" reasons not to show up or just send b teamers... Its not so much about, if they show up or not. Its about : Do they allow their players to do their own decision? Playing now = their players can join if they want Playing in half a year = their players come when kespa "send" them. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote: Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you: Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all. You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make. I think ESP already made their stand. If Kespa still pulls out of GSL 5 after making this statement, they will get a big backlash in korea (AFAIK, koreans have actually sided with ESF on this) and the foreign community. Plus, no one knows whether the OSL champion will be ESF or Kespa. So if Kespa does break their promise, they might not have the defend champ for the next OSL. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote: Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you: Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all. You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make. If KeSPA pull out midway, the community out roar will be furious. Different circumstances. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
Maybe it isn't the fairest thing for them, but not letting them participate will create even more drama and actually do severe dmg to Korean E-sports. Aslong as KeSPA doesn't back out of this promise it sounds like an acceptable situation for me. | ||
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skyflyfish
Canada499 Posts
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:56 Jakkerr wrote: to be honest ESF should give in and let their players participate now. Maybe it isn't the fairest thing for them, but not letting them participate will create even more drama and actually do severe dmg to Korean E-sports. Aslong as KeSPA doesn't back out of this promise it sounds like an acceptable situation for me. And what makes you think that KeSPA won't back out? Also, I don't think ESF should accept "progaming licenses" from KeSPA since it puts their team under KeSPA control. | ||
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Krogan
Sweden375 Posts
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domane
Canada1606 Posts
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Michaels
419 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:58 domane wrote: Did KeSPA ever announce their players will participate in Season 4? Or was it that they will participate in the GSL in the future? They havent. | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
OSL/PL matches are scheduled so they overlap with GSL match times, and Kespa goes on record saying that players/teams are free to choose which one they go with and that they aren't restricting everything. I wonder what would happen... | ||
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Kergy
Peru2011 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote: Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you: Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all. You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make. I agree with you, the best move ESF can make now is play in OSL, Kespa has already backed down and promised they will participate in S5, a formal agreement could be signed to ensure this. It could be considered as their last chance, if they fuck up once again they'd be digging their own grave. I think the decision to play or not in GSL S4 should be made by the individual teams and not Kespa as a whole, let's not forget that half of them still have to play BW for at least another month. Or... Stork could just organize a strike and force a reform, but that's dreaming too much | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote: Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you: Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all. You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make. Wrong. If Kespa agrees to allow players to play through GSL 4 after this whole fiasco, and then they back out, they would lose enough face that they would endanger most of their sponsorships. It's a Korean cultural value thing. You don't want your business to look like scum (at least not completely). The reason why they have to occur at the same time is this: The OSL has an audience. It is at least partially exclusive from the audience that the GSL has. This audience is based in KR. The GSL has an audience. It is at least partially exclusive from the audience that the OSL has. This is an international audience. Both tournaments want to have the widest audience possible because this generates revenue for their sponsors. By having GSL players attend OSL, the OSL gains some of the regular viewers of the GSL, as well as the fans of the individual GSL players attending. The same reasoning works for OSL players attending GSL 4. By changing their decision on allowing OSL players into GSL 4, Kespa breaks a mutually beneficially agreement, and then says "Oh sorry about that, we'll just use your players for our publicity in OSL and we might throw you a bone next GSL." | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:01 Taku wrote: Hypothetical scenario: OSL/PL matches are scheduled so they overlap with GSL match times, and Kespa goes on record saying that players/teams are free to choose which one they go with and that they aren't restricting everything. I wonder what would happen... You know GSL has been very flexible about moving their times to accommodate players who play overseas, I am sure they can find a working resolution to get KeSPA players to play both. No one's asking them to pick one or the other, your statement has no bearing to the argument at hand. | ||
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eleaf
526 Posts
'eSports federation players defer OSL participation' 'KeSPA Agrees to Participate in GSL Season 5' I did quite follow the next two news since it's my sleep time... Can anyone clarify will eSports federation players (Nestea, MVP, DRG, MKP, Parting, San) still be in OSL after KeSPA's announcement? | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:09 eleaf wrote: Man all the information are coming so fast. Now after 'No Kespa Players in Upcoming GSL' we have: 'eSports federation players defer OSL participation' 'KeSPA Agrees to Participate in GSL Season 5' I did quite follow the next two news since it's my sleep time... Can anyone clarify will eSports federation players (Nestea, MVP, DRG, MKP, Parting, San) still be in OSL after KeSPA's announcement? As far as I know, they have yet to make a statement. Probably discussing things over in the back room now. | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:49 gedatsu wrote: Well, a bunch of guys responded to the same thing and gave the same reply too. So I'd like to ask you: Suppose kespa promises to join GSL 4. What should ESF do then? By your reasoning they still can't participate in OSL, because kespa could lie. They could pull out just after the code A qualifiers, or as soon as the OSL finishes, or whatever. So it doesn't matter what kespa says. That translates to pulling out of OSL even if kespa hadn't said anything on the subject at all. You only have this choice: believe kespa, or don't believe them. If you believe them, then participate in OSL. If you don't believe them, it doesn't matter what promises they make. u make a written agreement? like what normal businesses do when they do business. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:08 FairForever wrote: You know GSL has been very flexible about moving their times to accommodate players who play overseas, I am sure they can find a working resolution to get KeSPA players to play both. No one's asking them to pick one or the other, your statement has no bearing to the argument at hand. Stuff like this is why GOM is so likable amongst the foreign community. | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:06 Jormundr wrote: Wrong. If Kespa agrees to allow players to play through GSL 4 after this whole fiasco, and then they back out, they would lose enough face that they would endanger most of their sponsorships. It's a Korean cultural value thing. You don't want your business to look like scum (at least not completely). How come this "Korean cultural value thing" applies to GSL4 but not to GSL5? Because they did say they will participate in GSL5. Somehow everyone was telling me that there was no reason to trust that they really meant it. | ||
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rj rl
648 Posts
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jimbob615
Uruguay455 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:13 gedatsu wrote: How come this "Korean cultural value thing" applies to GSL4 but not to GSL5? Because they did say they will participate in GSL5. Somehow everyone was telling me that there was no reason to trust that they really meant it. Because Kespa never made a statement that they would partake in GSL4. Obviously, many people (including the players themselves) were expecting them to. But to go back on an official statement would not be taken too lightly. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:15 jimbob615 wrote: i hope Blizzard bans KeSPA for life, so that they can piss off, and all the old sc1 players are forced to find new teams or retire. loool | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:14 rj rl wrote: Why is all this shit about "let those poor players decide their destiny", while those players are pretty much a bunch of 18-yo kids, they could have wanted to bathe in champagne with fangirls, it's big companies who cover their asses paying big moneys etc. so players should just do what theyve been told to do or fucking quit and join EG or something. Guess what they chose. It's not about "liberte, egalite, let them do what they want" crap after, it's all about business and kespa is fucking grandmaster therein. Except KeSPA does not have the interest of the players in mind. If they are a play/team union like ESF, that's another story. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:06 Jormundr wrote: Wrong. If Kespa agrees to allow players to play through GSL 4 after this whole fiasco, and then they back out, they would lose enough face that they would endanger most of their sponsorships. It's a Korean cultural value thing. You don't want your business to look like scum (at least not completely). The reason why they have to occur at the same time is this: The OSL has an audience. It is at least partially exclusive from the audience that the GSL has. This audience is based in KR. The GSL has an audience. It is at least partially exclusive from the audience that the OSL has. This is an international audience. Both tournaments want to have the widest audience possible because this generates revenue for their sponsors. By having GSL players attend OSL, the OSL gains some of the regular viewers of the GSL, as well as the fans of the individual GSL players attending. The same reasoning works for OSL players attending GSL 4. By changing their decision on allowing OSL players into GSL 4, Kespa breaks a mutually beneficially agreement, and then says "Oh sorry about that, we'll just use your players for our publicity in OSL and we might throw you a bone next GSL." Are we continuing to forget the fact their biggest sponsors are directly tied to KeSPA. Like come guys. I don't know how many times I have to repeat it. Yes it doesn't look good on them to everyone else, but there is some method to their madness. Not saying I agree with it. They're only looking out for themselves. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
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Quarz
448 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:14 rj rl wrote: Why is all this shit about "let those poor players decide their destiny", while those players are pretty much a bunch of 18-yo kids, they could have wanted to bathe in champagne with fangirls, it's big companies who cover their asses paying big moneys etc. so players should just do what theyve been told to do or fucking quit and join EG or something. Guess what they chose. It's not about "liberte, egalite, let them do what they want" crap after, it's all about business and kespa is fucking grandmaster therein. No big companies like Samsung should selfless develop E-Sports and should support the white Knights GOM and Blizzard. | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:15 vthree wrote: Because Kespa never made a statement that they would partake in GSL4. Obviously, many people (including the players themselves) were expecting them to. But to go back on a statement would not be taken too lightly. Read the chain of quotes. I asked, if Kespa says they agree to partake in GSL4, why would you believe them when you don't believe a promise to partake in GSL5? But I seem to be dealing with people on different sides here. Some say Kespa can never be trusted, some say the Korean culture does not allow for a broken promise. | ||
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Ettick
United States2434 Posts
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:17 Quarz wrote: No big companies like Samsung should selfless develop E-Sports and should support the white Knights GOM and Blizzard. I still don't see why Samsung should stay in KeSPA, the rest of the companies there are domestic only, so there's a conflict of interest. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:15 vthree wrote: Because Kespa never made a statement that they would partake in GSL4. Obviously, many people (including the players themselves) were expecting them to. But to go back on an official statement would not be taken too lightly. the problem is that they prohibit all of their players from competing in the GSL. This is nothing what you could call cooperation. And if you remember a few months ago, Blizzard, Kespa, GOM and OGN announced to cooperate in the future. Well it seems, that "future" ended here... | ||
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:15 jimbob615 wrote: i hope Blizzard bans KeSPA for life, so that they can piss off, and all the old sc1 players are forced to find new teams or retire. Dude!What do u smoke?! | ||
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Jermman
Canada174 Posts
KeSPA is pretty evil. They don't seem to care about the players at all. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:18 gedatsu wrote: Read the chain of quotes. I asked, if Kespa says they agree to partake in GSL4, why would you believe them when you don't believe a promise to partake in GSL5? But I seem to be dealing with people on different sides here. Some say Kespa can never be trusted, some say the Korean culture does not allow for a broken promise. If Kespa decided to take part in GSL, ESF and KeSPA both will have a threat of withdrawing. It would be M.A.D. kind of situation. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:03 Kergy wrote: I agree with you, the best move ESF can make now is play in OSL, Kespa has already backed down and promised they will participate in S5, a formal agreement could be signed to ensure this. It could be considered as their last chance, if they fuck up once again they'd be digging their own grave. I think the decision to play or not in GSL S4 should be made by the individual teams and not Kespa as a whole, let's not forget that half of them still have to play BW for at least another month. Or... Stork could just organize a strike and force a reform, but that's dreaming too much The problem is how Kespa is interpreting its own statements. They agreed to work together, however they never mentioned their players participating in the GSL Season 4, even though that is what everybody naturally concluded. So while people can blame Kespa of dodgy and dirty strategies, they cannot outright blame them for breaking their word. Even though I do not like Kespa, I do not believe that they will break their word, and this time there is no way of wriggling out like they did this time. However, the ESF claimed that they will boycott all Kespa sanctioned events, until Kespa gives up its blockade, which Kespa has not done yet, despite their statement. They said that their players will participate in s5, but they are still blicking s4, so ESF has no reason to participate in the OSL. | ||
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rj rl
648 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:16 achan1058 wrote: Except KeSPA does not have the interest of the players in mind. If they are a play/team union like ESF, that's another story. there is no such thing as "players interest" or if you want it equals "money" just as ESF interest\KeSPA interest\everyones goddamn interest. Players just want more tourneys because of more profit, but they owe their teams all they have and their teams = their sponsors = KeSPA so why not listen to KeSPA and be good? | ||
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Torra
Norway469 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:14 rj rl wrote: Why is all this shit about "let those poor players decide their destiny", while those players are pretty much a bunch of 18-yo kids, they could have wanted to bathe in champagne with fangirls, it's big companies who cover their asses paying big moneys etc. so players should just do what theyve been told to do or fucking quit and join EG or something. Guess what they chose. It's not about "liberte, egalite, let them do what they want" crap after all, it's all about business and kespa is fucking grandmaster therein. Nope, after what happened to the players with the exact desires you described few years ago, (the matchfixing scandal) I don't think most of the current players are even dreaming of that. If I'm wrong about this, then god help us all and the SC2 scene. | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:13 gedatsu wrote: How come this "Korean cultural value thing" applies to GSL4 but not to GSL5? Because they did say they will participate in GSL5. Somehow everyone was telling me that there was no reason to trust that they really meant it. Because the fallout from taking their players out of GSL 4 after OSL is over would be far more severe than if they pulled this exact move again for GSL 5. The other reason that it applies more to GSL 4 is because if Kespa agrees to play GSL 4 then both parties have leverage. For example: I need somewhere to live for a month. You have a house, and I say I will pay you $500 up front to live there for a month. You give me the keys to the house, and then I say that I'm not going to pay you until after the month's over and I've moved to a different country. Are you going to give your keys to a complete stranger (who also has a reputation of being a complete asshole) in the hope that you will get your $500 at the end of the month? Or will you take your keys back? | ||
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artosismermaid
213 Posts
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:31 artosismermaid wrote: where is blizzards statement, they are always saying soon, they need to actually mean soon for once in their lives HotS is also coming "soon", so I expect their announcement next year. | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:31 artosismermaid wrote: where is blizzards statement, they are always saying soon, they need to actually mean soon for once in their lives Soon: Copyright 2004-2012 Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved. "Soon" does not imply any particular date, time, decade, century, or millennia in the past, present, and certainly not the future. "Soon" shall make no contract or warranty between Blizzard Entertainment and the end user. "Soon" will arrive some day, Blizzard does guarantee that "soon" will be here before the end of time. Maybe. Do not make plans based on "soon" as Blizzard will not be liable for any misuse, use, or even casual glancing at "soon." | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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Jamial
Denmark1289 Posts
What are you laughing at? This would probably be the healthiest thing that could happen to StarCraft in Korea. Fuck KeSPA and their stupid monopoly, and retarded rules. | ||
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foxmulder_ms
United States140 Posts
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provrorsbarn
Sweden766 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:35 Jamial wrote: What are you laughing at? This would probably be the healthiest thing that could happen to StarCraft in Korea. Fuck KeSPA and their stupid monopoly, and retarded rules. I'm pretty sure he shares the same sentiment as the rest of us, it's just that he's laughing at the likelihood of KeSPa being banned being as likely as Blizzard releasing HotS free of charge. | ||
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Quarz
448 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:24 Jermman wrote: KeSPA is pretty evil. They don't seem to care about the players at all. So their player should forced to retire or find a new team lol. Thats sounds logical. | ||
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:16 pencil_ethics wrote: Right now the prevailing opinion in the Korean community is "Don't fall for KeSPA's bull****, this is how the GOMTV Classic got wiped off the face of the planet; since they're not participating in this season's GSL, keep the Federation out of this season's Starleague". Nobody trusts KeSPA over there, whether they are Brood War fans or StarCraft II fans. Are you sure? or just you do not trust? | ||
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
I can vouch for him. Just make yourself an account in any of the korean community sites and ask what they think of KeSPa. They will answer you the best can with their broken english. Most will just say "fucking kespa" though. | ||
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:47 dismiss wrote: Knowing Kespa they'll withdraw their players again once the OSL is over. :> Hello, man from the future. | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
We're pretty sure. A few people have been checking out the korean communities for their opinions. Apparently they are strongly in support of ESF and further protest. Both BW and SC2 communities. | ||
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:49 JiPrime wrote: I can vouch for him. Just make yourself an account in any of the korean community sites and ask what they think of KeSPa. They will answer you the best can with their broken english. Most will just say "fucking kespa" though. Sorry. I don't believe you. | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:47 dismiss wrote: Knowing Kespa they'll withdraw their players again once the OSL is over. :> Well, ESF will be back out in force in that case. I highly , highly doubt anyone from the GSL scene will allow KeSPA to pull the shit they pulled in BW. Also, speaking of ESF - have they officially called off the boycott yet? and if so, where? For all we know they could be keeping it up until KeSPA caves and lets their players compete in the S4 code A quals... | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:00 iKill wrote: Well, ESF will be back out in force in that case. I highly , highly doubt anyone from the GSL scene will allow KeSPA to pull the shit they pulled in BW. Also, speaking of ESF - have they officially called off the boycott yet? and if so, where? For all we know they could be keeping it up until KeSPA caves and lets their players compete in the S4 code A quals... There is no news suggesting they have lifted it, so it's safer to assume they are still boycotting them. | ||
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RenSC2
United States1054 Posts
In all honesty, Kespa may be better off keeping the ESF out of the OSL this season. Then they can sit in their own corner and claim to have the best players. At the very least, they'll have continuity. If they get the ESF players back into the OSL this season, then they will be forced to capitulate in the future. In a rush to grab the big Kespa vs ESF headline tournament, I think Kespa may have made a business mistake of letting the ESF players in. If I'm in the ESF, I'm telling my fellows that we need to get back in there now, before the door is shut and we lose all bargaining power. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:00 iKill wrote: Well, ESF will be back out in force in that case. I highly , highly doubt anyone from the GSL scene will allow KeSPA to pull the shit they pulled in BW. If ESF actually rescind their boycotting of this OSL and then KeSPa pulls the same shenanigan again, then ESF will lose all credibility and legitimacy for what it represents and becoming a laughing stock, at least among the Koreans. ESF probably knows this, so they probably won't change their stance. It's a game of chicken right now. I'm really eager to hear what Blizzard has to say about this. | ||
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theJob
272 Posts
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
On August 25 2012 03:49 JiPrime wrote: I can vouch for him. Just make yourself an account in any of the korean community sites and ask what they think of KeSPa. They will answer you the best can with their broken english. Most will just say "fucking kespa" though. Korean forums have forever been a cesspool of rage. Korean netizen translations often were a source of amusement on TeamLiquid reports. It is hardly an objectce source of information or evidence. | ||
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Grampz
United States2147 Posts
in all seriousness, thank fucking god. for the sake of Kespa's name they can't afford to pull this shit anymore. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:06 VManOfMana wrote: Korean forums have forever been a cesspool of rage. Korean netizen translations often were a source of amusement on TeamLiquid reports. It is hardly an objectce source of information or evidence. As a Korean, I admit, our online community is very emotional and extremely volatile. But they are the voice that matters to KeSPA, not foreigners. Believe me, I don't like that fact as much as you do. I really wish they follow the example of nice stable community like here. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:12 Grampz wrote: haha kespa, pussys! in all seriousness, thank fucking god. for the sake of Kespa's name they can't afford to pull this shit anymore. Is this even allowed? | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:17 OminouS wrote: What a circus. I hope everything works out well in the end. Same, but you never know with KeSPA -_-;;; | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
KeSPA has long known to sort of bully in BW but I don't think they are able to do this anymore. Even if KeSPA players draw the crowds in general, they cannot power play anymore, it will hurt the scene more then anything. I feel like ESF might have done something bad too... Couldn't they have just been the bigger people in this and kept their players in the OSL to prove a point? They withdraw isn't that the same conclusion? | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:18 Seraphic wrote: I'm a BW fan over and over but this has gotten me a bit confused. KeSPA has long known to sort of bully in BW but I don't think they are able to do this anymore. Even if KeSPA players draw the crowds in general, they cannot power play anymore, it will hurt the scene more then anything. I feel like ESF might have done something bad too... Couldn't they have just been the bigger people in this and kept their players in the OSL to prove a point? They withdraw isn't that the same conclusion? No because that's exactly what KeSPA wanted them to do; not withdraw and just let themselves be pushed around. | ||
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Eire_91
Ireland82 Posts
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skyflyfish
Canada499 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:18 Seraphic wrote: I'm a BW fan over and over but this has gotten me a bit confused. KeSPA has long known to sort of bully in BW but I don't think they are able to do this anymore. Even if KeSPA players draw the crowds in general, they cannot power play anymore, it will hurt the scene more then anything. I feel like ESF might have done something bad too... Couldn't they have just been the bigger people in this and kept their players in the OSL to prove a point? They withdraw isn't that the same conclusion? let them play and let gomtv die? hell no | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:12 Grampz wrote: haha kespa, pussys! in all seriousness, thank fucking god. for the sake of Kespa's name they can't afford to pull this shit anymore. I think at this point, even they know that their rep is beyond recoverable. Koreans made their displeasure completely clear in the past whenever KeSPa fucked up like this, but they couldn't really do much because there was only KeSPA who even bothered to keep the scene going at the time. ;_; | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. This is a massive crap shoot. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote: GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want. They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. | ||
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yungSC2
20 Posts
If those are mind games, it almost looks like they want to take over the SC2 community and get rid of GOM. | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:30 yungSC2 wrote: It almost looks like they want to take over the SC2 community and get rid of GOM. Not almost. Why wouldn't they want to? They did it in BW. | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:30 yungSC2 wrote: I do not like what Kespa is doing, lots of unnecessary drama they produce. If those are mind games, it almost looks like they want to take over the SC2 community and get rid of GOM. whoaaaa now let's not be hasty man | ||
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oBlade
United States5511 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote: They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote: They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4837 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote: GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want. They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. Not remotely. It would be grotesque sabotage of a competition that's already underway, and frankly it would be more than enough reason to ban the offenders from OSL for life. | ||
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LouderXY
China16 Posts
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naastyOne
491 Posts
I hope ESL stands and the OLS goes without ESL players. KeSpa should not try to do the shit, and be let with just an appology. without loosing just about anything. | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote: No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. They don't have to be even, but the loss of either company (but particularly GOM, atm) would completely ruin the scene, so some cooperation is necessary. KeSPA doesn't see that though. | ||
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stew_
Canada239 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:06 VManOfMana wrote: Korean forums have forever been a cesspool of rage. Korean netizen translations often were a source of amusement on TeamLiquid reports. It is hardly an objectce source of information or evidence. so are english forums (tl/reddit) on playxp or dcinside sc2gallery in terms of information and amusement | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
Kespa needs to be shown that it isn't going to do this corrupt power hungry crap here anymore... we're not BW peons, we're alot bigger internationally than BW ever was, and playing field has changed. | ||
norjoncal
89 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:40 MCXD wrote: They don't have to be even, but the loss of either company (but particularly GOM, atm) would completely ruin the scene, so some cooperation is necessary. KeSPA doesn't see that though. It is impossible but I would like to see just the OSL and Proleague. OGN can do the Korean broadcast. GOM would do all the streams and foreign broadcasts. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:40 stew_ wrote: so are english forums (tl/reddit) on playxp or dcinside sc2gallery in terms of information and amusement Shhh shhh shhh what are you doing?! Trying to provoke a cross-site war? ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
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norjoncal
89 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:42 NuKE[vZ] wrote: ESF better announce that they will be pulling OSL players out till next season as well... as a person that wants to see BW vs. SC2, I still believe that ESF needs to treat OSL like KESPA treats GSL. Keep the players pulled, next season GSL and OSL we can wait for. Kespa needs to be shown that it isn't going to do this corrupt power hungry crap here anymore... we're not BW peons, we're alot bigger internationally than BW ever was, and playing field has changed. I have no idea but is GOMTV SC2 revenue greater than KESPA BW during their prime? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44158 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:16 rasnj wrote: Well GSL season 5 won't be until after this upcoming OSL (so not until November). If the ESF teams wanted to match the KeSPA decision, they should announce that they will keep out of this OSL, but participate in the next one. I agree. Hopefully, Kespa will stick to this decision, and both sides can move forwards amicably. | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:40 MCXD wrote: They don't have to be even, but the loss of either company (but particularly GOM, atm) would completely ruin the scene, so some cooperation is necessary. KeSPA doesn't see that though. Well, loss of Kespa would not ruin the scene, the scene survived without Kespa. Still the former BW scene is a nice addition. | ||
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WArped
United Kingdom4845 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:42 NuKE[vZ] wrote: ESF better announce that they will be pulling OSL players out till next season as well... as a person that wants to see BW vs. SC2, I still believe that ESF needs to treat OSL like KESPA treats GSL. Keep the players pulled, next season GSL and OSL we can wait for. Kespa needs to be shown that it isn't going to do this corrupt power hungry crap here anymore... we're not BW peons, we're alot bigger internationally than BW ever was, and playing field has changed. I think the mass boycott by ESF players was enough to show them they don't have the power to do anything they want, plus the mass shit-storm they have created if any of this is being read by KeSPA, let them have their OSL with GSL players this season. They have used scheduling problems as an excuse, they have lost that playing card. Lets see what happens at the start of GSL season 5. I would rather see less drama and more fair play rather than creating more tension and possibly ruining the chances of SC2 in Korea when it's theoretically only just started. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote: No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. You're right - they're competitors. So by your logic ESF should do everything to screw over KeSPA, aka not play OSL. | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:50 Sandermatt wrote: Well, loss of Kespa would not ruin the scene, the scene survived without Kespa. Still the former BW scene is a nice addition. I agree. Kinda surprising how many foreigners tend to underestimate the size of their own scene. Koreans are kinda envious of what you guys have contributed so far, which led some to argue that they need KeSPA to 'protect' the korean esports scene, which is a load of bull at this point. Segregating esports based on nationality in these times is just stupid, IMO. | ||
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MChrome
Netherlands201 Posts
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote: So why can't the players themselves decide? Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work? | ||
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oBlade
United States5511 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:51 FairForever wrote: You're right - they're competitors. So by your logic ESF should do everything to screw over KeSPA, aka not play OSL. If my logic were truly that nonsensical, you would have me suggesting that KeSPA assassinate Nestea. ESF isn't GOMTV, why should they want to do anything to harm KeSPA? They should be more concerned about their players' opportunities, which means letting them play in the OSL. If they didn't want to play in the OSL, it would be just as harmless as KeSPA players not joining the GSL. I wouldn't bat an eye, because it's not a big deal at all. Leaving a league in the middle of it is different, and it's not something I'd expect from a group of people who admonished Naniwa for not living up to professional standards. | ||
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WArped
United Kingdom4845 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:00 Condor Hero wrote: Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work? Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side. | ||
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naastyOne
491 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:54 JiPrime wrote: I agree. Kinda surprising how many foreigners tend to underestimate the size of their own scene. Koreans are kinda envious of what you guys have contributed so far, which led some to argue that they need KeSPA to 'protect' the korean esports scene, which is a load of bull at this point. Segregating esports based on nationality in these times is just stupid, IMO. So true. The SC2 scene was build in paralel with the still alive BW scene, runed by KeSPA. And Guess what? BW pro-scene has finished. Korean SC2 scene doesn`t need KeSPA. Foreigner SC2 scene doesn`t need KeSPA. At this point, KeSPA players are drop in the ocean for the current scene. The addition of another 8-15 Code A-code S players will not make big difference. On August 25 2012 05:04 oBlade wrote: If my logic were truly that nonsensical, you would have me suggesting that KeSPA assassinate Nestea. ESF isn't GOMTV, why should they want to do anything to harm KeSPA? They should be more concerned about their players' opportunities, which means letting them play in the OSL. If they didn't want to play in the OSL, it would be just as harmless as KeSPA players not joining the GSL. I wouldn't bat an eye, because it's not a big deal at all. Leaving a league in the middle of it is different, and it's not something I'd expect from a group of people who admonished Naniwa for not living up to professional standards. What is ESF if not a common ground for a few teams? Their players have the decision power, and they chose to not participate in the OSL any futher. Case finished. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:53 Adreme wrote: This is probably the closest thing to a fold that you can get from KESPA. There was no way they were going to completely give the image that they caved and just go to the Code A qualifiers this season so they just announced they will next season in order to save face. I don't think it's a fold just yet. KeSPA is posturing at the pot to see ESF's reaction. KeSPA may look like they are about to fold (announcing they will go in S5) but the moment ESF breathes a sigh of relief (re-enter into OSL) they will snap call (go back to their old tricks). However, if Blizzard (the tournament director) gets involved and states that KeSPA made forward motion with his cards and therefore folds (has to participate in S5) or else they will face a punishment by the tournament director (banning). Gotta love poker references! | ||
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ShadowReaver
Canada563 Posts
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:04 WArped wrote: Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side. I believe they don't have a union or something similar, because they are just kids, impossible to play politics with big companies. If they are really fed up with KeSPA's behavior, the only thing to do is to retire from proleague teams and then join some GSL teams. | ||
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
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SpiZe
Canada3640 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:04 WArped wrote: Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side. Who is them ? Players ? If so, I really doubt they hate KeSPA or they might not like the organization but I doubt they have a problem with their players. EDIT : Or do them refer to current kespa players ? SC2 doesn't need kespa to be successful atm, Kespa wasn't there before and it was fine. Kespa tried to make a move to put themself in a position of power in SC2 and they failed. They will have to learn to deal with a different status than the one they had in BW. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:08 ElephantBaby wrote: I believe they don't have a union or something similar, because they are just kids, impossible to play politics with big companies. If they are really fed up with KeSPA's behavior, the only thing to do is to retire from proleague teams and then join some GSL teams. To be honest, at this point, all the "dissenters," or "dishwashers" from KeSPA created/defected to ESF/GSL/Slayers. The rest who stayed probably have other reasons, or like you implied, have absolutely no idea what's going on because they were too busy practicing under strict routines. I'm seriously hoping it's the latter. ;_; | ||
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Inverse1
United Kingdom61 Posts
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:10 SpiZe wrote: Who is them ? Players ? If so, I really doubt they hate KeSPA or they might not like the organization but I doubt they have a problem with their players. EDIT : Or do them refer to current kespa players ? SC2 doesn't need kespa to be successful atm, Kespa wasn't there before and it was fine. Kespa tried to make a move to put themself in a position of power in SC2 and they failed. They will have to learn to deal with a different status than the one they had in BW. He's referring to the KeSPA players themselves and he's right. Plenty have spoken out about the practices of KeSPA in the past (and even at this current situation) and have even stated they need a players union. | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:10 SpiZe wrote: Who is them ? Players ? If so, I really doubt they hate KeSPA or they might not like the organization but I doubt they have a problem with their players. EDIT : Or do them refer to current kespa players ? SC2 doesn't need kespa to be successful atm, Kespa wasn't there before and it was fine. Kespa tried to make a move to put themself in a position of power in SC2 and they failed. They will have to learn to deal with a different status than the one they had in BW. Kespa has good intentions (theyre non profit right?). They sponsored T8 for christ's sake. Some of them disagree obviously but in the long run Kespa was great for BW at least. It centralized the pro scene (at the same time left foreign scene behind). Pushed for gaming licenses which gave each person on a team legitimacy. They want to keep the sport running and moving.. but on their own terms. Good intentions, bad execution some of the time. Meh just my 2cents | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10324 Posts
So basically esports federation / GSL has the power now :D The tables are turned. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:15 Inverse1 wrote: They shouldn't play in the OSL still. Unless Kespa have agreed to participate in the next GSL, why should ESF participate in the next (current) OSL? Because there's a BIG difference between not participating in GSL code B and pulling out of the OSL. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:20 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: AWESOME! So basically esports federation / GSL has the power now :D The tables are turned. don't think so yet, they'll have to push OSL/kespa more or this could happen again. On August 25 2012 05:18 Kal_rA wrote: Kespa has good intentions (theyre non profit right?). They sponsored T8 for christ's sake. Some of them disagree obviously but in the long run Kespa was great for BW at least. It centralized the pro scene (at the same time left foreign scene behind). Pushed for gaming licenses which gave each person on a team legitimacy. They want to keep the sport running and moving.. but on their own terms. Good intentions, bad execution some of the time. Meh just my 2cents "non profit" != "good intentions" | ||
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Severedevil
United States4837 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:20 Novalisk wrote: Because there's a BIG difference between not participating in GSL code B and pulling out of the OSL. Aye. The analogue would be, KESPA players were seeded into Code S and played in qualifiers for Code S (many qualifying), the round of 32 was played, the round of 16 group ceremonies happened, and then KESPA decided to remove their players from the tournament. In reality, KESPA declined to submit its players to the qualifying tournament for the qualifying tournament for the GSL. They didn't yank the rug out from under an ongoing tournament. | ||
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
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Derrida
2885 Posts
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Pantaji
United States11 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:24 Severedevil wrote: Aye. The analogue would be, KESPA players were seeded into Code S and played in qualifiers for Code S (many qualifying), the round of 32 was played, the round of 16 group ceremonies happened, and then KESPA decided to remove their players from the tournament. In reality, KESPA declined to submit its players to the qualifying tournament for the qualifying tournament for the GSL. They didn't yank the rug out from under an ongoing tournament. Do you guys think that KeSPA would back down if ESF said they would pull out from the next tournament? ESF had to do something extreme to get KeSPA's attention. As it stands now, KeSPA probably would make more money running their tournaments only and not participate in any other tournaments. If ESF said they would pull out in the next tournament KeSPA wouldn't care. | ||
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Odoakar
Croatia1835 Posts
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delchuu
Germany166 Posts
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:31 Odoakar wrote: But they are still not participating in GSL Season 4? So what exactly changed? To me it seems like nothing. It is just a statement clarification, not modification. On surface, pretty consistent from KeSPA's part, can't say the same for ESF though. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:30 Pantaji wrote: Do you guys think that KeSPA would back down if ESF said they would pull out from the next tournament? ESF had to do something extreme to get KeSPA's attention. As it stands now, KeSPA probably would make more money running their tournaments only and not participate in any other tournaments. If ESF said they would pull out in the next tournament KeSPA wouldn't care. I never said ESF didn't make the correct choice. Not participating in this and next season's Code B is, in my opinion, on par with dropping out of the OSL. If it's just 1 Code B being missed out, then it's not a big deal in comparison. 2 is a different story altogether, and that's made the OSL boycott justified. | ||
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anrimayu
United States875 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:36 anrimayu wrote: Keep in mind that if the ESF didn't pull out of OSL, Kespa wasn't even going to participate in GSL season 5, or any seasons. This shows you that they're completely going against the meeting they had with Blizzard and Gom earlier this year. How do you know that? | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:24 Severedevil wrote: Aye. The analogue would be, KESPA players were seeded into Code S and played in qualifiers for Code S (many qualifying), the round of 32 was played, the round of 16 group ceremonies happened, and then KESPA decided to remove their players from the tournament. In reality, KESPA declined to submit its players to the qualifying tournament for the qualifying tournament for the GSL. They didn't yank the rug out from under an ongoing tournament. But Kespa announced that after they qualified for the OSL, they had no other option to retaliate. | ||
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mrjpark
United States276 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:30 Salazarz wrote: It's amazing how eager people are to claim that "KeSPA got owned", even though it's more likely than not that they were actually planning to participate in the next GSL season regardless, and all that happened was eSF people throwing a tantrum because they are scared of getting pushed aside. Well, yeah. It's happened before. They're making sure KeSPA doesn't have the cajones to try that shit again. And honestly, taking 9 players out of a 16 man tourney sucks. If the ESF holds to their boycott, KeSPA/OSL's "legacy" gets tainted with one of the worst professional StarCraft tournaments of all time. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
The first announcement did include that Kespa will not attend Season 5. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
It's calling being safe rather than sorry, or something like that. English ain't my mother tongue. | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
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anrimayu
United States875 Posts
source Then again, that's how corporation works. It's all about the profit. I don't think anyone's too surprised. | ||
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oBlade
United States5511 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:36 anrimayu wrote: From looking at Kespa's track record, it'd be safe to assume that they're going to fuck everyone else over if ESF decided to go back to OSL. Until there's a legal binding to get Kespa players to attend GSL season 4 and beyond, this is far from over. Why is it any of your business what leagues they play in? And how is anyone getting fucked over here? | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:08 ElephantBaby wrote: I believe they don't have a union or something similar, because they are just kids, impossible to play politics with big companies. If they are really fed up with KeSPA's behavior, the only thing to do is to retire from proleague teams and then join some GSL teams. My secret hope: KeSPA players under the leadership of 1 of the big names all join ESF. ESF effectively becomes the player's union for all of SC2. | ||
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Blueblister
Sweden321 Posts
Unless Blizzard pulls something off, Gom's only chance would be joining the evil empire, although the smaller competitors still wouldn't be saved. Kespa blocks smaller players like ESV TV from establishing themselves and as soon as Kespa gets the upper hand, eSF's toast. Kespa's long term strategy of controlling the player and leagues through licenses is as valid as it were yesteryear. I recommend reading Str1keFreedom's first post in this topic. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:46 Irave wrote: Well this was resolved quickly glad to hear it. It's not resolved. No change of stance from ESF yet. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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Apus
New Zealand74 Posts
I'm sure Gom will seed some players though.This won't be the last shit Kespa pulls though. | ||
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:47 achan1058 wrote: My secret hope: KeSPA players under the leadership of 1 of the big names all join ESF. ESF effectively becomes the player's union for all of SC2. Calling it now, BoxeR went back to KT so he can "rescue" dissenting KeSPA players and bring them under SlayerS team. :D | ||
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Burns
United States2300 Posts
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:18 Kal_rA wrote: Kespa has good intentions (theyre non profit right?). What the ...? KeSPA is practically the "Sponsors Union". They might officially be an independent organization but just like OGN they will always do what the Sponsors (Samsung, SKT, CJ and so on) want. Their 'good intentions', as you call it, are basically to protect their Sponsor's investment. Now sometimes that coincides with the fan's will but a lot of times it does not. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:49 Nazeron wrote: Awesome to hear, will be cool to watch the players in GSL We still don't know yet. This is purely PR damage control by KeSPA. | ||
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:50 JiPrime wrote: Calling it now, BoxeR went back to KT so he can "rescue" dissenting KeSPA players and bring them under SlayerS team. :D Why KT? | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
I think he meant SKT1 | ||
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sam05396
United States783 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:49 Salazarz wrote: Eh, I can't find any statements saying KeSPA would never participate in GSL, other than them saying they weren't going to play in Season 4 (which by the way, I still think is completely reasonable). kespa will bring gom down if fed players play in osl but gsl doesnt get kespa players | ||
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:51 lord_nibbler wrote: What the ...? KeSPA is practically the "Sponsors Union". They might officially be an independent organization but just like OGN they will always do what the Sponsors (Samsung, SKT, CJ and so on) want. Their 'good intentions', as you call it, are basically to protect their Sponsor's investment. Now sometimes that coincides with the fan's will but a lot of times it does not. Actually they are just like David Stern, always on the team owner's side. Pretty reasonable though. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
Yeah I always mix up the two teams, don't know why. | ||
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fearpLug
Germany153 Posts
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
On August 25 2012 05:57 fearpLug wrote: dunno this whole kespa thing just makes me angry man... why so much douching around.. i kinda still have the feeling, kespa thinks they are king in esports and can do what they like and id totally not surprised if kespa players will actually NOT be playing gsl 5 in the end.. Pretty sure it is expected by most, not surprised isn't enough...forgone conclusion, even better. | ||
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Bamm
Sweden279 Posts
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
Agreed but tbh this is kind of a good thing. When two companies ( well in this case two groups kespa/non kespa) compete we can only expect talent to rise faster as things will be less stagnant. Also this will call for the scene to grow as one will want to one up the other in terms of quality whether its talent or production and so on. Drama is a good thing as long as it can be resolved at some point | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:04 LimeNade wrote: Agreed but tbh this is kind of a good thing. When two companies ( well in this case two groups kespa/non kespa) compete we can only expect talent to rise faster as things will be less stagnant. Also this will call for the scene to grow as one will want to one up the other in terms of quality whether its talent or production and so on. Drama is a good thing as long as it can be resolved at some point I disagree. KeSPA is making anti-competitive moves, and that is never a good thing. Healthy competition is good. Illegal law-breaking action is bad. | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
What about this is illegal? | ||
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:05 achan1058 wrote: I disagree. KeSPA is making anti-competitive moves, and that is never a good thing. Healthy competition is good. Illegal law-breaking action is bad. How is that illegal law-breaking action? | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:07 ElephantBaby wrote: How is that illegal law-breaking action? No matter how you sugar coat it, KeSPA's action is anti-trust. | ||
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:08 achan1058 wrote: No matter how you sugar coat it, KeSPA's action is anti-trust. What trust do they have on each other before? At least show some oral agreement. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:09 ElephantBaby wrote: What trust do they have on each other before? At least show some oral agreement. Oops, I don't meant to have the hyphen there. Antitrust does not mean companies trusting each other. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:09 ElephantBaby wrote: What trust do they have on each other before? At least show some oral agreement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:06 Wpgstevo wrote: Law-breaking is by definition illegal, so that was a kind of redundant way of phrasing it. What about this is illegal? Dem illegal law-breaking big giant corporation businesses. Buncha shady bastards imo. | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
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Wounded31
124 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:15 Wpgstevo wrote: So you are quoting united states law for a korean company? Wow. well I was just quoting a quick wiki link to what antitrust means unless you're talking to the guy who introduced the topic durr EDIT: also oh lol http://www.apeccp.org.tw/ | ||
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TheSun
Germany57 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:30 Str1keFreedom wrote: To everyone who believes the statements from Kespa have to look back in the past. When Kespa boycotted Gretech back in broodwar days, they clearly stated that they may join future leagues. They didnt even give Gretech a wink after the boycott. Right now no one in Korea believes this statement from Kespa. Also do not believe in Fomos. It is the main media that Kespa uses to communicate with people and it always gets trashed by korean Netizens for its bias and inaccuracy. Fomos is the same organization that trashed Boxer and Nada calling them "prize money hunter" for leaving kespa for sc2. Mr. Chae tweeted 2hrs ago , "Something that happened once may not occur. But something that happened twice will most definitely occur." He is talking about Kespa. This happened before, happened again, and bound to happen more times in the future. This is quite a serious problem that relates to monoplization of esports in korea, and this will affect foreign tournaments as well if we let Kespa have it their way. Many of the enjoyment of foreign tournament comes from Foreigner vs Koreans, and if GomTV loses this fight who knows the future of the GomTV players and their sponsorship. Please do not fall for Kespa's vile words and support Gom through this unforgivable situation that happened once again. Edit: For people who say Kespa players have killer schedule, please dont fall for that... Remember before MBCGames was disbanded Kespa players had dealt with multiple leagues and had no problems. Side projects? they do that all the time. Think about it. Not all players in Kespa will qualify for WCG, WCS, MLG, GSL etc... So why take away chances of players of qualifying for certain competition when eliminated from the other. It does not make sense. thanks for that insight | ||
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Wpgstevo
Canada79 Posts
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:17 zhurai wrote: well I was just quoting a quick wiki link to what antitrust means unless you're talking to the guy who introduced the topic durr I thought antitrust laws exists in most countries? Truth is, there isn't enough grounds for sueing yet, unless someone can gather enough evidence on KeSPA. | ||
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mongmong
Korea (South)1389 Posts
"kespa pays a lot of salaries to players!!" hell yeah its true but its only limited to big names like flash and jaedong b-teamers get almost nothing and average players get a salary of around $400 per month + they cant stream or anything so no other earnings included.I dunno what to say if you think getting 400 per month is enough considering they practice 12 hours day nonstop | ||
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f1ihigh
3 Posts
KeSPA stated that they are going to participate in GSL season 5 which is after GSL season 4 that is coming soon. This means that KeSPA players are still not going to be in the upcoming GSL. Most of Koreans see this as an immediate remedy, i guess, to save the OSL which KeSPA always participated. After this season of OSL goes on with players from both sides, no one knows if KeSPA is going to announce again that they are not going to participate in GSL S5. I think this announcement from KeSPA has a lot of potential to be another controversy. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:21 f1ihigh wrote: to those who thinks this is solved. KeSPA stated that they are going to participate in GSL season 5 which is after GSL season 4 that is coming soon. This means that KeSPA players are still not going to be in the upcoming GSL. Most of Koreans see this as an immediate remedy, i guess, to save the OSL which KeSPA always participated. After this season of OSL goes on with players from both sides, no one knows if KeSPA is going to announce again that they are not going to participate in GSL S5. I think this announcement from KeSPA has a lot of potential to be another controversy. We also have not heard from ESF, which I think is the bigger deal. They might say they aren't ready for OSL and will participate next season. Truth be told, I hope this OSL falls through. Would have done great damage to KeSPA's armour. | ||
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f1ihigh
3 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:23 achan1058 wrote: We also have not heard from ESF, which I think is the bigger deal. They might say they aren't ready for OSL and will participate next season. Truth be told, I hope this OSL falls through. Would have done great damage to KeSPA's armour. that's true. I just wanted to let people know that this issue is not solved yet. | ||
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:23 achan1058 wrote: We also have not heard from ESF, which I think is the bigger deal. They might say they aren't ready for OSL and will participate next season. Truth be told, I hope this OSL falls through. Would have done great damage to KeSPA's armour. They are already in, how can they say they are not ready for OSL, that's not a good excuse. Better brainstorm a good one fast. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:27 ElephantBaby wrote: They are already in, how can they say they are not ready for OSL, that's not a good excuse. Better brainstorm a good one fast. I was being sarcastic about the excuse. Edit: Actually, now to think of it, it is a good excuse. It would show a point on just how much BS is KeSPA's excuse is. | ||
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Ganondorf
Italy600 Posts
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f1ihigh
3 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:28 Ganondorf wrote: Not solved for sure, the ESF should rejoin OSL only if kespa removed all restrictions. Or, to make it fair, if Kespa joins GSL season 5, ESF will join OSL at the same time, not before. totally agreed | ||
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:20 mongmong wrote: To those who keep saying bs like "kespa pays a lot of salaries to players!!" hell yeah its true but its only limited to big names like flash and jaedong b-teamers get almost nothing and average players get a salary of around $400 per month + they cant stream or anything so no other earnings included.I dunno what to say if you think getting 400 per month is enough considering they practice 12 hours day nonstop Interesting. The KESPA players really need some kind of player union | ||
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oBlade
United States5511 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:20 mongmong wrote: To those who keep saying bs like "kespa pays a lot of salaries to players!!" hell yeah its true but its only limited to big names like flash and jaedong b-teamers get almost nothing and average players get a salary of around $400 per month + they cant stream or anything so no other earnings included.I dunno what to say if you think getting 400 per month is enough considering they practice 12 hours day nonstop They also get room and board included, and of course they can't stream, because they have responsibilities towards the team that is employing them. They also get bonuses for performance, and always a chance to end up with a higher salary later once they actually become good. And anyway, if they don't like the arrangement, they know where the e-stadium is at Sindorim for GSL qualifiers. | ||
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QNdie
Poland210 Posts
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Ballack
Norway821 Posts
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INTENZ-_-
Sweden137 Posts
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Xulatis
Germany34 Posts
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:53 Xulatis wrote: The most imbalanced move, the ESF could make, would be to let their players play in the current OSL, get them to place all their players in Ro4 and ongoing. And next season of OSL, they will not be coming back.... GG I don't think that will do ESF any good. People in Korea will still watch OSL more than GSL, just because it is on TV. Pull out current OSL will do most damage to KeSPA. | ||
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Timmsh
Netherlands201 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:53 Xulatis wrote: The most imbalanced move, the ESF could make, would be to let their players play in the current OSL, get them to place all their players in Ro4 and ongoing. And next season of OSL, they will not be coming back.... GG nice.... :-) | ||
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SolarJto
United States260 Posts
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:53 Xulatis wrote: The most imbalanced move, the ESF could make, would be to let their players play in the current OSL, get them to place all their players in Ro4 and ongoing. And next season of OSL, they will not be coming back.... GG Get all their players to the Ro8 and then bow out of the competition o_O Or worker rush each other and donate all winnings to some charity. | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:40 oBlade wrote: They also get room and board included, and of course they can't stream, because they have responsibilities towards the team that is employing them. They also get bonuses for performance, and always a chance to end up with a higher salary later once they actually become good. And anyway, if they don't like the arrangement, they know where the e-stadium is at Sindorim for GSL qualifiers. If they go for the GSL qualifiers, will the have to fear retaliation from Kespa (I mean be treated worse than players who switched two years ago)? | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:04 Dosey wrote: Get all their players to the Ro8 and then bow out of the competition o_O Or worker rush each other and donate all winnings to some charity. Just imagine Nestea saying "Naniwa!!" in the chat. That would have been absolutely hilarious. I kid, I kid. | ||
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Rah
United States973 Posts
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:15 achan1058 wrote: Just imagine Nestea saying "Naniwa!!" in the chat. That would have been absolutely hilarious. I kid, I kid. For Naniwa!!!!!! Would be quite funny and quite the scandal | ||
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Damnight
Germany222 Posts
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:04 Dosey wrote: Get all their players to the Ro8 and then bow out of the competition o_O Or worker rush each other and donate all winnings to some charity. That makes GSL players more puppier than poor Kespa players though. | ||
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Kroml
Turkey308 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:27 Kroml wrote: Well, that got solved fast... Not really, the OSL is still a shambles at this point and Kespa have promised something like this in the past. I've been unable to follow this for a while, have they signed a contract about this yet? | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:21 Damnight wrote: KeSPA is stuck in 2006, evolve please and embrace the international scene Oo They are not ready though. See the fast approaching PlayOff is coming. Lots of teams will priotize that over anything else. And if players are not focused on it, then results will suffer. Someone gave an example of coaching asking B-teamer to help A-teamers practicing for PL but then B-teamer will be too preocuppied with GSL qualifiers. In that case, it is understandable why the teams have made such decision. Abide by the team's rule = sure salary going to GSL = a financial risk. I'm sure that how RorO thought of it when the interviewers touched upon the topic. | ||
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PrAeToR.FeNiX
Canada361 Posts
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:27 Kroml wrote: Well, that got solved fast... Not at all, ESF players still aren't playing in OSL. | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:21 Damnight wrote: KeSPA is stuck in 2006, evolve please and embrace the international scene Oo 2 months ago, KeSPA sent their star players to an US event for the first time in history. They're embracing the international scene, but they're not embracing the korean one very well. | ||
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lee365
United States448 Posts
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:38 Xiphos wrote: They are not ready though. See the fast approaching PlayOff is coming. Lots of teams will priotize that over anything else. And if players are not focused on it, then results will suffer. Someone gave an example of coaching asking B-teamer to help A-teamers practicing for PL but then B-teamer will be too preocuppied with GSL qualifiers. In that case, it is understandable why the teams have made such decision. Abide by the team's rule = sure salary going to GSL = a financial risk. I'm sure that how RorO thought of it when the interviewers touched upon the topic. Four teams won't even be in playoffs and two of those in don't play until after later on. Qualifiers are on Sept 5th and Code A is broadcasted on a Tuesday so it is really a non-issue. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:43 iKill wrote: 2 months ago, KeSPA sent their star players to an US event for the first time in history. They're embracing the international scene, but they're not embracing the korean one very well. I am not sure about the embracing the internationa scene part. I am not going to watch any match that involves KeSPA players until this thing is sorted out, and I am sure many other internationals are similarly pissed off at KeSPA. | ||
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CreationSoul
Romania231 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:45 setzer wrote: Four teams won't even be in playoffs and two of those in don't play until after later on. Qualifiers are on Sept 5th and Code A is broadcasted on a Tuesday so it is really a non-issue. But currently teams are still fighting hard for that spot. If players are allowed to participate in GSLs, they would still affects the standings. And as for now 6/8 are in that position. And 6/8 is the majority of the organization. So to keep it fair among themselves, the entire entity have decided upon this choice. | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:38 Xiphos wrote: They are not ready though. See the fast approaching PlayOff is coming. Lots of teams will priotize that over anything else. And if players are not focused on it, then results will suffer. Someone gave an example of coaching asking B-teamer to help A-teamers practicing for PL but then B-teamer will be too preocuppied with GSL qualifiers. In that case, it is understandable why the teams have made such decision. Abide by the team's rule = sure salary going to GSL = a financial risk. I'm sure that how RorO thought of it when the interviewers touched upon the topic. Then that's an in-team issue, not a KeSPA issue, as far as I can see. The coaches discuss that with their teams, not some suits in a penthouse. It's just like the GSL/GSTL vs. MLG/IPL/DH. SlayerS (for example) themselves decide whether or not Ryung is better off focusing on GSTL or going out to that MLG. GOM or the ESF don't decide that in their place. | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:48 Xiphos wrote: But currently teams are still fighting hard for that spot. If players are allowed to participate in GSLs, they would still affects the standings. And as for now 6/8 are in that position. And 6/8 is the majority of the organization. So to keep it fair among themselves, the entire entity have decided upon this choice. This is the final week of Proleague, no? So regular season will end before qualifiers begin. Even then, the 2nd place team has to wait until 3rd and 4th teams play. No one said the players have to actually practice for GSL, as was sometimes the case for MSL and OSL, but the expectation was that KeSPA would, at the very least, allow its players participation. If the issue all along was Proleague playoffs KeSPA would not have come out and initially said the players would not be participating in GSL S5. The move by KeSPA was entirely a political decision. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:54 setzer wrote: This is the final week of Proleague, no? So regular season will end before qualifiers begin. Even then, the 2nd place team has to wait until 3rd and 4th teams play. No one said the players have to actually practice for GSL, as was sometimes the case for MSL and OSL, but the expectation was that KeSPA would, at the very least, allow its players participation. Not if they are practicing 8 days a week. Seriously, they can have just a bunch of players show up for the qualifier without specifically practicing for it, or do they think that they will get stomped so hard if they don't know all their opponents in advance? | ||
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coolcor
520 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:43 iKill wrote: 2 months ago, KeSPA sent their star players to an US event for the first time in history. They're embracing the international scene, but they're not embracing the korean one very well. except for all the blizzcons their star players got sent to in the US. MLG wasn't that unprecedented or shocking. | ||
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Proseat
Germany5113 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:57 Proseat wrote: So did anyone email or contact on Twitter/Facebook the large companies behind the KeSPA teams (Samsung, SK Telecom, Korea Telecom, CJ, ...) about this whole affair? Some of them are also global enterprises on the worldwide stage and they probably don't realize how the rest of the world is looking at the Korean SC2 scene. Maybe it will have an effect on them. After all, this isn't really resolved yet for sure. I twittered samsung, I don't know the email to complain to them or I would, I don't know if any of the other ones are global. If possible we should make a thread with the contact info of all the international KESPA companies so everyone can contact them. I'm sure once they see real world ramifications for their behaviour outside of just esports they might think differently. Hell I don't use reddit, but I think posting the contact info of all the multinational corporations involved with KESPA on reddit and TL will be helpful. | ||
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Quarz
448 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:53 MCXD wrote: Then that's an in-team issue, not a KeSPA issue, as far as I can see. The coaches discuss that with their teams, not some suits in a penthouse. It's just like the GSL/GSTL vs. MLG/IPL/DH. SlayerS (for example) themselves decide whether or not Ryung is better off focusing on GSTL or going out to that MLG. GOM or the ESF don't decide that in their place. The PL is much more important for the Kespa teams, than the GSTL for Gom teams. I am not really sure how much damage this OSL boycott will be dealt to Kespa. It not their tournament, its OGN tournament. For Kespa the PL is the most important thing. Anyway, time will tell if those ESF-player will remain better players in the future or not. If not than the move was probably a bad move. The move will be only be succesful, if Kespa guys think those players have value for them in the future. If not they can't care less. But i think it was a smart move by ESF, because now they are considered as the best SC2 players, but in the future who knows. | ||
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Random_Guy09
Canada1010 Posts
On August 25 2012 08:04 hunts wrote: I twittered samsung, I don't know the email to complain to them or I would, I don't know if any of the other ones are global. If possible we should make a thread with the contact info of all the international KESPA companies so everyone can contact them. I'm sure once they see real world ramifications for their behaviour outside of just esports they might think differently. Hell I don't use reddit, but I think posting the contact info of all the multinational corporations involved with KESPA on reddit and TL will be helpful. Yeah would be nice. Kind of hard to even look through company websites to find a contact email for complaints >_> | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
Once this OSL is over, they'll once again revoke their decision and not play the GSL after all. Kespa are the worst kind of people. If I was GOM, I'd say: "Great, GSL players will participate in the OSL that comes after this one. Looking forward to it!" | ||
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Laneir
United States1160 Posts
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 08:10 niteReloaded wrote: I have a feeling Kespa only made this statement so GSL players participate in the OSL, without actually meaning to fullfill it. Once this OSL is over, they'll once again revoke their decision and not play the GSL after all. Kespa are the worst kind of people. If I was GOM, I'd say: "Great, GSL players will participate in the OSL that comes after this one. Looking forward to it!" Except GOM would not be able to make that kind of statement. The player's union ESF would. | ||
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:57 Proseat wrote: So did anyone email or contact on Twitter/Facebook the large companies behind the KeSPA teams (Samsung, SK Telecom, Korea Telecom, CJ, ...) about this whole affair? Some of them are also global enterprises on the worldwide stage and they probably don't realize how the rest of the world is looking at the Korean SC2 scene. Maybe it will have an effect on them. After all, this isn't really resolved yet for sure. I emailed Samsung saying: "Mr. Samsung....uh....an organization you sponsored is trying to bring down its competitor and we think that this is unacceptable". | ||
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Proseat
Germany5113 Posts
On August 25 2012 08:09 Random_Guy09 wrote: Yeah would be nice. Kind of hard to even look through company websites to find a contact email for complaints >_> I found these websites (usually have Twitter/Facebook icons and/or a contact form): http://eng.cjcheiljedang.com/ http://www.samsung.com/ http://www.sktelecom.com/ http://www.kt.com/eng/main.jsp http://www.woongjin.com/English/index.aspx http://www.stx.co.kr/FrontEN/ There is also the KeSPA website (with Twitter link): http://www.e-sports.or.kr/ If you do contact any of them, be civil about it. | ||
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BreakfastBurrito
United States893 Posts
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nenshoua
Brazil27 Posts
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Haydin
United States1481 Posts
Didn't hear about the threatened boycott, but I'm glad that happened. I think the call from a very surprised and upset blizzard might have also helped. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 08:43 Haydin wrote: Glad to see this seems to have worked out. Kespa needs to be forced to play fair if they want to have a working relationship with any other established esports organization. Didn't hear about the threatened boycott, but I'm glad that happened. I think the call from a very surprised and upset blizzard might have also helped. Except it has not worked out yet. This was not a joint annoucement by ESF and KeSPA. ESF has not said they are going back to OSL. KeSPA is still not participating in GSL 4. This is pure PR damage control by KeSPA, and I despise them even more for it. I hope ESF won't fall for a silly trick such as this, unless they have signed a written agreement with KeSPA. | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:13 pallad wrote: Thank god , end of this drama bate and switch! :D | ||
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naastyOne
491 Posts
On August 25 2012 06:40 oBlade wrote: They also get room and board included, and of course they can't stream, because they have responsibilities towards the team that is employing them. They also get bonuses for performance, and always a chance to end up with a higher salary later once they actually become good. And anyway, if they don't like the arrangement, they know where the e-stadium is at Sindorim for GSL qualifiers. Well, didn`t the biger part of the KeSPA players escaped after SC2 appeared? | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
The way the thread is titled it implies that everything is fine and dandy again, which obviously isn't if anyone with half a brain reads carefully. | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
The Kespa people didn't want their players playing in GSL, so they pulled their people, ESF responed by pulling their people out of OSL, but then kespa decided to let their people play in GSL Season 5, and ESF responds by allowing them to play in OSL? I'm understanding this correctly? If so, I'm glad its all been worked out. I really hate how leagues are starting to form alliances and such and attempting to keep players out of tournaments and the like. Crap like that could kill SC2 for real. | ||
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
Looking forward to Season 5, but in the meantime, hope our gom players and kespa players end up on equal footing >.< | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 09:31 Havik_ wrote: So let me get this straight. The Kespa people didn't want their players playing in GSL, so they pulled their people, ESF responed by pulling their people out of OSL, but then kespa decided to let their people play in GSL Season 5, and ESF responds by allowing them to play in OSL? I'm understanding this correctly? If so, I'm glad its all been worked out. I really hate how leagues are starting to form alliances and such and attempting to keep players out of tournaments and the like. Crap like that could kill SC2 for real. ESF has yet to respond. So nothing is actually solved. | ||
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naastyOne
491 Posts
On August 25 2012 08:06 Quarz wrote: The PL is much more important for the Kespa teams, than the GSTL for Gom teams. I am not really sure how much damage this OSL boycott will be dealt to Kespa. It not their tournament, its OGN tournament. For Kespa the PL is the most important thing. Anyway, time will tell if those ESF-player will remain better players in the future or not. If not than the move was probably a bad move. The move will be only be succesful, if Kespa guys think those players have value for them in the future. If not they can't care less. But i think it was a smart move by ESF, because now they are considered as the best SC2 players, but in the future who knows. Just how many better players can KeSPA realistically get in the future? A good part of the current ESL`s top were the KeSPA B-teamers. So, they at most will get every on their A-teamers into better than ESL top. How many is that? 5-10-15 players? Unless KeSPA manages to out-recruit every major SC2 team in the next 2-3 years, they will not get significantrly better players. Also, considering the SC2 foreign scene is largely about a set of big events for every decent player to participate, as opposed to pro-league, and OSL, and the fact that SC2 community is backed(sponsored) by huge international corporations, Red Bull, Intel, AMD, Asus, LG, and a number of other hardware producers, and a number of local sponsors , there is no way in hell KeSPA will get the money dominance that they has in SC:BW, and hence, they will not be capable of out-recruiting Non-Kespa teams. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On August 25 2012 09:31 Havik_ wrote: So let me get this straight. The Kespa people didn't want their players playing in GSL, so they pulled their people, ESF responed by pulling their people out of OSL, but then kespa decided to let their people play in GSL Season 5, and ESF responds by allowing them to play in OSL? I'm understanding this correctly? If so, I'm glad its all been worked out. I really hate how leagues are starting to form alliances and such and attempting to keep players out of tournaments and the like. Crap like that could kill SC2 for real. "Kill" SC2 in Korea, not the rest of the world. IMO, the scene is sustainable even if you take KeSPA out of the equation at this point. In fact, I for one, could not care less whether SC2 becomes popular as BW in Korea. Korea is almost beyond recoverable from LoL influence now anyways, and GSL with the current business model is perfectly sustainable. It will definitely stunt the growth of the SC2 scene in Korea, but not outright kill it. The way I see it, the only legit way that will make SC2 popular like BW in Korea is to make SC2 so popular in the rest of the world (especially 1st world nations) that the korean westaboos, whose number definitely outnumber old BW fans, take notice and embrace it. The way things are looking in foreign SC2 scene, we're well on our way there. So guys, attend your local barcraft whenever you can, PLEASE. | ||
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sighsigh
Australia40 Posts
On August 25 2012 09:34 Aerisky wrote: Yay this is good news Looking forward to Season 5, but in the meantime, hope our gom players and kespa players end up on equal footing >.< This isn't good news because this is what Kespa WANTED from the beginning. What ESF needs to do is force Kespa to let their players play in season 4 of GSL otherwise don't let ESF players play in OSL. ESF has the leverage at the moment because OSL is starting really soon and Kespa is in a bit of a pinch because of that. Also according to some previous posts, the public isn't looking to favourably on Kespa. ESF's offical reply needs to be something like: Due to Kespa rasing concerns for their players not being on par with the ESF players in terms of Starcraft 2 strength. ESF feels that it would be unfair on Kespa players to have ESF players participate in the OSL and potentially dominate the OSL scene. Thus ESF players will not participate in the OSL tournament coming up and will have ESF players enter the next season of OSL. We wish the Kespa players good fortune and great games. Something like that. | ||
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naastyOne
491 Posts
On August 25 2012 09:57 sighsigh wrote: This isn't good news because this is what Kespa WANTED from the beginning. What ESF needs to do is force Kespa to let their players play in season 4 of GSL otherwise don't let ESF players play in OSL. ESF has the leverage at the moment because OSL is starting really soon and Kespa is in a bit of a pinch because of that. Also according to some previous posts, the public isn't looking to favourably on Kespa. ESF's offical reply needs to be something like: Due to Kespa rasing concerns for their players not being on par with the ESF players in terms of Starcraft 2 strength. ESF feels that it would be unfair on Kespa players to have ESF players participate in the OSL and potentially dominate the OSL scene. Thus ESF players will not participate in the OSL tournament coming up and will have ESF players enter the next season of OSL. We wish the Kespa players good fortune and great games. They can not do it like that, unfortunately, it sounds too childish. What they really need to say is, that since the KeSpa players will boost the competition, ESL has to increase it`s players training time, and since they are already training full time, the only way to do so is by deceasing the player`s tournament participation, so they can only attend to the tournament they were attending before, and the addition of OSL on the top of that burdens players way too much, and creates way too much trouble with sheduling, and takes too much of the time the players could participate in foreign evets, so ESL will look at the ability to cram the OSL in their bussy shedule in the future, but no guarantees. On August 25 2012 09:55 JiPrime wrote: "Kill" SC2 in Korea, not the rest of the world. IMO, the scene is sustainable even if you take KeSPA out of the equation at this point. In fact, I for one, could not care less whether SC2 becomes popular as BW in Korea. Korea is almost beyond recoverable from LoL influence now anyways, and GSL with the current business model is perfectly sustainable. It will definitely stunt the growth of the SC2 scene in Korea, but not outright kill it. The way I see it, the only legit way that will make SC2 popular like BW in Korea is to make SC2 so popular in the rest of the world (especially 1st world nations) that the korean westaboos, whose number definitely outnumber old BW fans, take notice and embrace it. The way things are looking in foreign SC2 scene, we're well on our way there. So guys, attend your local barcraft whenever you can, PLEASE. I think that the foreign scene could employ the Code S level Koreans players pretty fine, if KeSPA manages to capture Korea, so the Kespa attack on ESL only boosts the chances that some top Koreans will go to foreign teams, and that will boost the foreign scene, since they will improve their teams, with their expirience and practice with other players. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Oh, and I'm I right in assuming that the parties only had verbal agreements to work with one another? Nothing written on paper? That sounds very amateurish. If they had legally binding documents, all of this could've been avoided. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 25 2012 10:14 Telcontar wrote: I still think ESF is really screwing over OGN big time. Kespa stopping their players from playing in the GSL qualifiers is one thing, pulling players out of the Ro16 of the OSL, especially after they held the group selection ceremony, is a little excessive. I suppose it is the strongest message they can send though. Oh, and I'm I right in assuming that the parties only had verbal agreements to work with one another? Nothing written on paper? That sounds very amateurish. If they had legally binding documents, all of this could've been avoided. ESF didn't really force the players to leave. The players chose to leave if Kespa was going to be this unfair to their players. It makes a lot of sense due to the fact the majority if not all the ESF players in the OSL were Broodwar pros under Kespa at one point so they all know how completely unfair they were. The players on both sides just want to play together and show their fans good games. All anyone in that position would ever want to do. This is basically an example of two little kids wanting to play something together but their big brothers taking the ball away. | ||
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chris5180
198 Posts
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norjoncal
89 Posts
On August 25 2012 10:31 Qikz wrote: ESF didn't really force the players to leave. The players chose to leave if Kespa was going to be this unfair to their players. It makes a lot of sense due to the fact the majority if not all the ESF players in the OSL were Broodwar pros under Kespa at one point so they all know how completely unfair they were. The players on both sides just want to play together and show their fans good games. All anyone in that position would ever want to do. This is basically an example of two little kids wanting to play something together but their big brothers taking the ball away. But they are not kids they are contracted employees. The problem I have with GOM is they have too many events. | ||
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TBXII
21 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Bascal
United States30 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:11 whirlpool wrote: thank GOD , is OSL save?, hope the best for SC2 scene And by GOD, you mean Nestea, right? | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1597 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:09 Kiyo. wrote: Source: http://esfiworld.com/news/after-esfs-threat-boycotting-osl-kespa-decided-participate-gsl-season-5 You can find more details at the link. Inb4 ESF players play in current OSL OSL completes it's event. KESPA backs out of playing season 5 due to "scheduling." | ||
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nAgeDitto
United States428 Posts
Were they NOT planning on participating for GSL season 5? What does this change? Is it just a 'confirmation'? | ||
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
On August 25 2012 13:12 nAgeDitto wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong... but... Were they NOT planning on participating for GSL season 5? What does this change? Is it just a 'confirmation'? To me it sounds like they are trying to do damage control before the OSL without actually committing to anything. Who knows what is really going on behind the scenes though. The fact remains that KeSPa does not seem to have the slightest clue why people are really upset. It should be the player's and the team's choice, not KeSPa's. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10324 Posts
i can understand this decision Kespa states simply it won't participate in Season 4. ESF says, "Oh no you don't! We're not going to have our players play in your OSL to help your league grow while you also limit opportunities for your own players! We're going to pull out if you don't join Season 4" Kespa now says "Oh, don't worry, we'll participate in Season 5. It's just that we didn't want to participate in Season 4, 'cus we're not ready" Me: >.> If you're worried about kespa players not being on part with GSL players, then why the heck are you allowing GSL players to play in OSL? Also why are you worried about schedules if GOM hasn't caused schedule problems in the past and, once again, are offering/guaranteeing that there will be no scheduling conflicts? Clever (I guess?) moves by both, but ESF are the good guys here and, thankfully, unlike in BW days, they have the power, not Kespa. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 25 2012 10:14 Telcontar wrote: I still think ESF is really screwing over OGN big time. Kespa stopping their players from playing in the GSL qualifiers is one thing, pulling players out of the Ro16 of the OSL, especially after they held the group selection ceremony, is a little excessive. I suppose it is the strongest message they can send though. Oh, and I'm I right in assuming that the parties only had verbal agreements to work with one another? Nothing written on paper? That sounds very amateurish. If they had legally binding documents, all of this could've been avoided. It's not over the top at all, KeSPA are fucking retarded for thinking they could pull this shit without having this happening. Really, really, really hope ESF tells them they can kiss their OSL good bye unless KeSPA players can participate in GSL4. Also, from what I've been told, Korean business culture has a tendency to be a little 'fly by the seat of your pants' --- I dont know how true it is anymore, just heard that contract culture isn't as big there as here. On August 25 2012 11:23 norjoncal wrote: But they are not kids they are contracted employees. The problem I have with GOM is they have too many events. Too many events how? GSTL and GSL.... I count two. For most of BWs history you had OSL, MSL and AT LEAST one Proleague! There was a time where you had TWO proleagues, as well as iTV and GhemTV starleagues.... | ||
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
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DrakeFZX3
United States925 Posts
On August 25 2012 11:23 norjoncal wrote: But they are not kids they are contracted employees. The problem I have with GOM is they have too many events. And players should be allowed to choose what events they can participate in. Saying GOM has too many events is absurd. The SC2 scene itself has a plethora of events. The great thing about players within nonKespa teams (and that includes Foreign teams) is that they're allowed to choose where they participate in. | ||
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liberate71
Australia10252 Posts
On August 24 2012 22:16 rasnj wrote: Well GSL season 5 won't be until after this upcoming OSL (so not until November). If the ESF teams wanted to match the KeSPA decision, they should announce that they will keep out of this OSL, but participate in the next one. ^ this. Don't give KeSPA a fucking inch. | ||
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PhoenixDark
United States286 Posts
On August 25 2012 07:57 Proseat wrote: So did anyone email or contact on Twitter/Facebook the large companies behind the KeSPA teams (Samsung, SK Telecom, Korea Telecom, CJ, ...) about this whole affair? Some of them are also global enterprises on the worldwide stage and they probably don't realize how the rest of the world is looking at the Korean SC2 scene. Maybe it will have an effect on them. After all, this isn't really resolved yet for sure. They don't give a shit about you, and likely never will. The only horse in this race that is on your side is GOM | ||
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
On August 25 2012 14:09 PhoenixDark wrote: They don't give a shit about you, and likely never will. The only horse in this race that is on your side is GOM Also, this isn't like how EG has many sponsors. The big name companies KT, SK, Samsung.. they're not just sponsors.. they OWN the teams. For example, if SK decides they want to get rid of someone player/coach/etc. on T1 they will. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 25 2012 14:09 PhoenixDark wrote: They don't give a shit about you, and likely never will. The only horse in this race that is on your side is GOM Yeah, some guys aren't putting the two together yet. Samsung? Possibly but as for the rest it will achieve next to nothing. On August 25 2012 14:25 bokchoi wrote: Also, this isn't like how EG has many sponsors. The big name companies KT, SK, Samsung.. they're not just sponsors.. they OWN the teams. For example, if SK decides they want to get rid of someone player/coach/etc. on T1 they will. Yeah, EG is pretty reliant on keeping those sponsors happy hence the ridiculous amount of plugging non-stop. Their philosophy and how they run their business is completely different. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 25 2012 13:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote: It's not over the top at all, KeSPA are fucking retarded for thinking they could pull this shit without having this happening. Really, really, really hope ESF tells them they can kiss their OSL good bye unless KeSPA players can participate in GSL4. Also, from what I've been told, Korean business culture has a tendency to be a little 'fly by the seat of your pants' --- I dont know how true it is anymore, just heard that contract culture isn't as big there as here. Too many events how? GSTL and GSL.... I count two. For most of BWs history you had OSL, MSL and AT LEAST one Proleague! There was a time where you had TWO proleagues, as well as iTV and GhemTV starleagues.... I feel the same way. | ||
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PhoenixDark
United States286 Posts
Think about it from a Kespa team perspective. It's a great way to measure progress and scout opponents. Now they apparently won't get the chance unless ESF changes their mind | ||
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
V I C T O R Y ! User was warned for this post | ||
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
On August 25 2012 15:04 GreggSauce wrote: logged in soley to say V I C T O R Y ! wait until the fat lady sings (they are in the booth) | ||
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MisterTea
United Kingdom1047 Posts
On August 25 2012 15:04 GreggSauce wrote: logged in soley to say V I C T O R Y ! it's not, nothing has changed so what they said they would play in an event a while form now, jsut so they can get OSL running with no further interuption, what stops them after OSL is done to say no again? the problem wasn't gsl 5 it is gsl 4 | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
I agree. I don't know much about Kespa, but based on how they've acted with SC2 so far, there's not much to like. | ||
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Kergy
Peru2011 Posts
On August 25 2012 15:04 GreggSauce wrote: logged in soley to say V I C T O R Y ! V I C T O R Y + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Ammoth
Sweden391 Posts
Because right now they didn't change anything, stupid press release... | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 25 2012 16:53 Ammoth wrote: Why arn't they participating in season 4? :/ Because right now they didn't change anything, stupid press release... Wrong, their previous press release said that they would neither participate in Season 4 nor in Season 5. But I also don't like how Kespa holds back its players from participating in Season 4, especially those who haven't made their debut in any individual leagues yet, they surely can't be that busy. | ||
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Weirdkid
Singapore2431 Posts
On August 25 2012 14:26 StarStruck wrote: Yeah, some guys aren't putting the two together yet. Samsung? Possibly but as for the rest it will achieve next to nothing. Off topic: Poor Samsung. Getting sued for $1billion can't feel too good. Apple patents are sick | ||
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Ammoth
Sweden391 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:16 JustPassingBy wrote: Wrong, their previous press release said that they would neither participate in Season 4 nor in Season 5. But I also don't like how Kespa holds back its players from participating in Season 4, especially those who haven't made their debut in any individual leagues yet, they surely can't be that busy. Aha, my bad then but yes, they can't be that busy other than practicing sc2 since there is only OSL going on right now? | ||
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6NR
United States1472 Posts
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Champi
1422 Posts
Kespa needs to understand they're not allowed to be the Tyrants they were in BW, and should learn their place with the rest of us! | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:22 Weirdkid wrote: Off topic: Poor Samsung. Getting sued for $1billion can't feel too good. Apple patents are sick Honestly I don't know why Samsung would still want to be in KeSPA, seeing how its target audience is rather different than the rest of the sponsors. At least LG got it right. | ||
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Trasko
Sweden983 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Deep down I hope some eSports veteran reports on Kespa closed-door meetings to shed some light on these and other things. And that the book is translated into English. Woodward-isseoyo? | ||
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Weirdkid
Singapore2431 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:04 achan1058 wrote: Honestly I don't know why Samsung would still want to be in KeSPA, seeing how its target audience is rather different than the rest of the sponsors. At least LG got it right. Samsung's market share seems to be pretty amazing in Korea though, so I wouldn't be surprised if they want to maintain that. Saw a ton of Samsung users when I was there. | ||
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Silent_Gentle
China9 Posts
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
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naastyOne
491 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:16 JustPassingBy wrote: Wrong, their previous press release said that they would neither participate in Season 4 nor in Season 5. But I also don't like how Kespa holds back its players from participating in Season 4, especially those who haven't made their debut in any individual leagues yet, they surely can't be that busy. Theoretically, the KeSPA motto is that every single teammate gets the support of the entire team in preparation, at least the KeSPA fans sugest so. Problem is, with this kind of policy, KeSPA players will never have time to play in non-KeSPA events, if KeSPA so desires. I guess, working as intended. On August 25 2012 11:23 norjoncal wrote: But they are not kids they are contracted employees. The problem I have with GOM is they have too many events. Their contract probably allows them to choose the events they will compete in. For example MC and MVP decided that IEM in Cologne is more importaint for them, so, they dropped of WCS Korea, despite having to pray in the loosers bracket. What is this, you want to be capable of watching every single event, and if there are too many, you want to deny everyone else the ability to watch them? It looks like you just need to work out your greed. | ||
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
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markrevival
United States222 Posts
All is fixed now, apparently. GG WP, ESF | ||
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kanjimanji
Bulgaria24 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Kryt0s
Germany209 Posts
On October 15 2012 18:06 kanjimanji wrote: is there going to be a 5th season of GSL for 2012? Way to go, brining dead threads back to life... | ||
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