EPTStephano leaving Millenium, [possibly] to EG - Page 73
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Think before you post. This should go without saying, there are so many people making absolutely idiotic comments in this thread. If you have nothing constructive to say, please don't say anything. | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:13 Linkirvana wrote: @Daswoll~ Because of the reasons I stated in my post, EG kind of has the image of being the team that throws money at players to make more money, whereas other teams (good example is Team Liquid I guess) have the image of being all about the game and not care as much about money/sponsors. Whether these images strike true or not is not up to me to decide, these are just my thoughts as to why people hate on EG. @jmbthirteen What the fuck are you being so sarcastic for? That wasn't my point AT ALL. There's a difference in selling cookies because you enjoy baking cookies and selling cookies because you like money. Image-wise I feel this is what's going on with the hate towards EG. I'm not trying to hate at all, just trying to pass on my thoughts as to why people hate EG. As I've pointed out before I lack enough information to judge EG at all, as do most people by the way, however as I pointed out there's probably some truth there. because this notion that having money in esports is bad is such bull shit. Every team should be striving towards that. Because if not, this all disappears. The players all leave. The leagues dont run. Yeah my post was sarcastic and daft. Just like the majority of posts in this damn thread bashing EG for such stupid reasons. So because iNcontroL and Idra thank their sponsors after every interview and such, they are such sell outs? Fuck that attitude. You might as well call the whole scene sell outs for playing for money. Why do tournaments even have prize pools. These guys should be playing because they love the game. Like they did in BW. They weren't making money then. Then sc2 comes out and everyone basically sells out. Our entire scene right now is dependent on sponsorships. Teams, leagues, prize pools are all funded by sponsors. And EG has become the best ROI for those sponsors among teams. By far too. And what do they do with it? Pay the best gamers in the world the best money out there. And they get shit for that. That makes no fucking sense. If more teams could afford EG salaries, salaries would be public by now. But they aren't because the majority of the salaries aren't anything to brag about. The problem isn't EG. The problem is other teams can't compete with EG. Every team should be able to offer good salaries to pro players. But they can't. Because they haven't been as good as EG's management. Simple as that. Every team out there has overlays with their sponsors. Every team out there has their players thank their sponsors in interviews. Every team out there has the sponsors on the jerseys. But can you name every teams sponsors? Nope, but I bet you can name more of EGs than anyone else's. Why? Because they are damn good at what they do. Everyone in the scene has passion. They are here because they love competitive gaming. Even the money we are talking about with EG, its not like the players are getting million dollar contracts. They get comfortable living salaries. Which is a HUGE step for this industry. It means there is hope for this thing we love to become something more. It means players might not have to stop playing at 22 because they have to go to college. It means that players can put off college because they can support themselves of progaming full time. It means there are actual full time jobs available for those to do what they love, rather than hating their 9-5 job. To say EG got in esports for the money is incredibly ignorant. They've just become successful in the money department. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:35 Linkirvana wrote: So I should hate the players for taking the money? That's dumb, their love for sc2 is not undermined by taking a big paycheque. However: EG's love for SC2 is undermined by giving out big paycheques to high profile players to pleasure the stockholders over at mr sponsor's. Atleast, that's the image they portray kind of, again I'm not saying I necesarrily think this is the case due to my lack of information, I'm just saying that I think people who are hating on EG look at EG this way. Hell yeah you should. Since the EG curse will objectively make them worse at the game, it´s proven that they decided for the money, not for the skills, hence they have no love for starcraft. So hating the player should be #1 prioritiy. :p Seriously though, what is "love for the game" and how is that measured? Nobody can make such claims, except for the people themselves. EG running a successful business in no way hinders their "love". I give you that their bad-boy image that they seem like so much (in my perception) back fires sometimes, but then, that´s nothing to what they are doing for the community: Brining money into E-sports. I love these high offers, it puts pressure on other teams to get more money to the people most important: the players. EG is bringing the competition and competition is great for us consumers, because everybody in the business needs to work harder and provide better quality. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:35 Linkirvana wrote: So I should hate the players for taking the money? That's dumb, their love for sc2 is not undermined by taking a big paycheque. However: EG's love for SC2 is undermined by giving out big paycheques to high profile players to pleasure the stockholders over at mr sponsor's. Atleast, that's the image they portray kind of, again I'm not saying I necesarrily think this is the case due to my lack of information, I'm just saying that I think people who are hating on EG look at EG this way. lolwut? Is this how business works in the Netherlands? | ||
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AIOL!
France962 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote: You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL  )But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
EG offers money to Stephano -> EG are sell outs Riiiiiiight... | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
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winthrop
Hong Kong956 Posts
not sep yet | ||
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Prugelhugel
Austria637 Posts
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Linkirvana
Netherlands365 Posts
"because this notion that having money in esports is bad is such bull shit. Every team should be striving towards that. Because if not, this all disappears. The players all leave. The leagues dont run. Yeah my post was sarcastic and daft. Just like the majority of posts in this damn thread bashing EG for such stupid reasons." - Obviously this is the case, I never disputed this. I'm simply pointing out that it can send a certain message when you're seemingly picking up "popular" players instead of "promising" players, if you know what I mean. (Once again, I'm not trying to pick on EG, just trying to explain the message they might be sending to some people) "So because iNcontroL and Idra thank their sponsors after every interview and such, they are such sell outs? Fuck that attitude. You might as well call the whole scene sell outs for playing for money. Why do tournaments even have prize pools. These guys should be playing because they love the game. Like they did in BW. They weren't making money then. Then sc2 comes out and everyone basically sells out." - No, I never claimed to either. "Our entire scene right now is dependent on sponsorships. Teams, leagues, prize pools are all funded by sponsors. And EG has become the best ROI for those sponsors among teams. By far too. And what do they do with it? Pay the best gamers in the world the best money out there. And they get shit for that. That makes no fucking sense. If more teams could afford EG salaries, salaries would be public by now. But they aren't because the majority of the salaries aren't anything to brag about." - The thing is though, the general public doesn't know why/how EG gets their money, atleast not the details. They're backed by giant corporations looking to make money, which makes EG's goal to make money. I realize this is also the case with other teams, however it atleast seems less apparant there. Whether that's a sign of EG doing good or bad is not up to me to decide. "The problem isn't EG. The problem is other teams can't compete with EG. Every team should be able to offer good salaries to pro players. But they can't. Because they haven't been as good as EG's management. Simple as that. Every team out there has overlays with their sponsors. Every team out there has their players thank their sponsors in interviews. Every team out there has the sponsors on the jerseys. But can you name every teams sponsors? Nope, but I bet you can name more of EGs than anyone else's. Why? Because they are damn good at what they do." - That is only "the problem" if commercialisation of the SC2 scene is your goal, and it shouldn't be in my opinion. "Everyone in the scene has passion. They are here because they love competitive gaming. Even the money we are talking about with EG, its not like the players are getting million dollar contracts. They get comfortable living salaries. Which is a HUGE step for this industry. It means there is hope for this thing we love to become something more. It means players might not have to stop playing at 22 because they have to go to college. It means that players can put off college because they can support themselves of progaming full time. It means there are actual full time jobs available for those to do what they love, rather than hating their 9-5 job. To say EG got in esports for the money is incredibly ignorant. They've just become successful in the money department." - I don't dispute the passion of the players, I realize the amount of time they put into this whole SC2 thing is worth some money, or should be anyways. What I would like to add though is that most people think that more money means less passion, and to be honest that thought holds up reasonably well in most areas, possibly SC2 as well. Again: I don't have access to all the details so I can't say whether or not this thought is legit in regards to EG. | ||
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Linkirvana
Netherlands365 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:47 SupLilSon wrote: lolwut? Is this how business works in the Netherlands? Please read the rest of my post, what I stated is what I think is the message as it comes across to the EG haters, not as it comes across to me personally. It's right there below the sentence you highlighted. | ||
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FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
And the argument, "stop being afraid of money" has no reason to come up in this debate. We watch esport, sports or "country got talent"-type shows and such for several reasons, but one of them is that it help us flee from some aspects we hate in society, we watch sports because anyone could become a big football, soccer, or starcraft star not matter social position, family wealth or whatever. So it is pretty normal that we feel bad when we see the exact same mechanisms as in society (the full power of money, the fact that some will ALWAYS be in a better position than you no matter how hard you fight, ...) appearing in what could be very well called, our dream, or utopia. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On August 22 2012 20:02 Linkirvana wrote: Please read the rest of my post, what I stated is what I think is the message as it comes across to the EG haters, not as it comes across to me personally. It's right there below the sentence you highlighted. The only way someone could think that way is if they had no understanding of the relationship between the sponsors and EG. So EG haters make large false assumptions based on their own severe lack of knowledge/reason? Sounds about right. | ||
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote: You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL )But I like the way they do business. Millenium don't want (in fact can't considering the minimum wage) to reduce the salary of member of editorial/direction staff or players from other game. Everybody has to make some economic choice, and it's better for Millenium (and not only Millenium.SC2) to let Stephano go than to fire some guys in order to pay him more than EG. It's business. And trust me, EG had to make some choice too ^^. I wouldn't be surprised if some members who underperformed lately had to make some sacrifices (Incontrol during dreamhack, strange talk about Huk new contract during casting). I say that Millenium (AND THE OTHERS) has nothing to learn from EG because there's no element showing that they are making anything different. Finaly, you speak about french pride but your wrong, it's not higher than Eiffel tower, it's higher than the Khalifa tower in Dubaï :o) | ||
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote: Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity I'm not saying Mill was shit or something. They are doing great, but I don't see their way of making business being profitable on the long term. In fact, I would like to see how they will fare after their best hype player and streamer goes off. Being based on the community and the hype is good when such community is with you, but since SC2 is a player driven game and not a team driven game, community support follow the player where it goes. Honestly I didn't know anything about Mill before Stephano begun to win tournaments. But when EG made their SC2 squad, everyone noticed. They were very busy making you notice that. Also, the reference to Arsenal and ManCity is quite wrong imho. Because EG and Mill both started from zero with different way of making business. Arsenal has a long tradition for their training teams and had (and has) some big names in the team, while Man City was just a giant with mud feet. You can't just make a team buying random good players and expect to do well without a good coach or some teamgame. But SC2 is not Football. You don't need to have good team game. You CAN sign good players and let them play their way. | ||
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On August 22 2012 20:46 Eviscerador wrote: I'm not saying Mill was shit or something. They are doing great, but I don't see their way of making business being profitable on the long term. In fact, I would like to see how they will fare after their best hype player and streamer goes off. Being based on the community and the hype is good when such community is with you, but since SC2 is a player driven game and not a team driven game, community support follow the player where it goes. Honestly I didn't know anything about Mill before Stephano begun to win tournaments. But when EG made their SC2 squad, everyone noticed. They were very busy making you notice that. Also, the reference to Arsenal and ManCity is quite wrong imho. Because EG and Mill both started from zero with different way of making business. Arsenal has a long tradition for their training teams and had (and has) some big names in the team, while Man City was just a giant with mud feet. You can't just make a team buying random good players and expect to do well without a good coach or some teamgame. But SC2 is not Football. You don't need to have good team game. You CAN sign good players and let them play their way. Stephano almost never streamed on Millenium TV. He always streams with his own twitch, and all the money from ads was just for him, Millenium don't get money from Stephano's stream on twitch. | ||
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O Fortuna PLS
Germany17 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote: Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity Excuse me, what? Sources please. Their site don't even provide a translation to english (typical french page). Without facts, I won't believe that and will just call it bullshit. | ||
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
On August 22 2012 20:38 Agathon wrote: Finaly, you speak about french pride but your wrong, it's not higher than Eiffel tower, it's higher than the Khalifa tower in Dubaï :o) Oh well, I pretty much know that. We are neighbourhoods after all. But in order not to stain your pride, I made a conservative measure of it. Just for being polite with our beloved neighbourhoods. And If EG has to fire some underperforming players to welcome Stephano, well, this is business. I'm a bit sorry for them, but you are talking with a Spanish guy. We have 25% unemployement rate here at the moment, so excuse me if I don't care too much for them. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:01 Bajsgrodan wrote: 1 post, and such a bad one at that... bandwagon troll. So you deny that all EG members after joining EG shown no better results and some of them even worse? (I don't count Thorzain one way or another in this argument as he is too new to count yet). | ||
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31415926535
Switzerland276 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:44 jmbthirteen wrote: because this notion that having money in esports is bad is such bull shit. Every team should be striving towards that. Because if not, this all disappears. The players all leave. The leagues dont run. Yeah my post was sarcastic and daft. Just like the majority of posts in this damn thread bashing EG for such stupid reasons. So because iNcontroL and Idra thank their sponsors after every interview and such, they are such sell outs? Fuck that attitude. You might as well call the whole scene sell outs for playing for money. Why do tournaments even have prize pools. These guys should be playing because they love the game. Like they did in BW. They weren't making money then. Then sc2 comes out and everyone basically sells out. Our entire scene right now is dependent on sponsorships. Teams, leagues, prize pools are all funded by sponsors. And EG has become the best ROI for those sponsors among teams. By far too. And what do they do with it? Pay the best gamers in the world the best money out there. And they get shit for that. That makes no fucking sense. If more teams could afford EG salaries, salaries would be public by now. But they aren't because the majority of the salaries aren't anything to brag about. The problem isn't EG. The problem is other teams can't compete with EG. Every team should be able to offer good salaries to pro players. But they can't. Because they haven't been as good as EG's management. Simple as that. Every team out there has overlays with their sponsors. Every team out there has their players thank their sponsors in interviews. Every team out there has the sponsors on the jerseys. But can you name every teams sponsors? Nope, but I bet you can name more of EGs than anyone else's. Why? Because they are damn good at what they do. Everyone in the scene has passion. They are here because they love competitive gaming. Even the money we are talking about with EG, its not like the players are getting million dollar contracts. They get comfortable living salaries. Which is a HUGE step for this industry. It means there is hope for this thing we love to become something more. It means players might not have to stop playing at 22 because they have to go to college. It means that players can put off college because they can support themselves of progaming full time. It means there are actual full time jobs available for those to do what they love, rather than hating their 9-5 job. To say EG got in esports for the money is incredibly ignorant. They've just become successful in the money department. I don't think most people are hating on EG because of the money. They are hating on EG because of the money AND the fact that most of their stars (Idra, HuK, Incontrol) aren't winning anything as of late. So there seem to be no correlation between the salary and the results and that's the problem for most people. Now, if Idra had won everything that Stephano had won in the past six month, I don't think anybody would be hating on EG for having so much money. But I mean it's the same in other sports. There are a bunch of european soccer teams that have been "bought" by some Qatari billionaires and they sign a lot of well-known players and post no results. The reaction from the fans is the same. | ||
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