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Think before you post. This should go without saying, there are so many people making absolutely idiotic comments in this thread. If you have nothing constructive to say, please don't say anything. |
On August 22 2012 21:00 31415926535 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 19:44 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 22 2012 19:13 Linkirvana wrote:
@Daswoll~
Because of the reasons I stated in my post, EG kind of has the image of being the team that throws money at players to make more money, whereas other teams (good example is Team Liquid I guess) have the image of being all about the game and not care as much about money/sponsors.
Whether these images strike true or not is not up to me to decide, these are just my thoughts as to why people hate on EG.
@jmbthirteen
What the fuck are you being so sarcastic for? That wasn't my point AT ALL. There's a difference in selling cookies because you enjoy baking cookies and selling cookies because you like money. Image-wise I feel this is what's going on with the hate towards EG.
I'm not trying to hate at all, just trying to pass on my thoughts as to why people hate EG. As I've pointed out before I lack enough information to judge EG at all, as do most people by the way, however as I pointed out there's probably some truth there. because this notion that having money in esports is bad is such bull shit. Every team should be striving towards that. Because if not, this all disappears. The players all leave. The leagues dont run. Yeah my post was sarcastic and daft. Just like the majority of posts in this damn thread bashing EG for such stupid reasons. So because iNcontroL and Idra thank their sponsors after every interview and such, they are such sell outs? Fuck that attitude. You might as well call the whole scene sell outs for playing for money. Why do tournaments even have prize pools. These guys should be playing because they love the game. Like they did in BW. They weren't making money then. Then sc2 comes out and everyone basically sells out. Our entire scene right now is dependent on sponsorships. Teams, leagues, prize pools are all funded by sponsors. And EG has become the best ROI for those sponsors among teams. By far too. And what do they do with it? Pay the best gamers in the world the best money out there. And they get shit for that. That makes no fucking sense. If more teams could afford EG salaries, salaries would be public by now. But they aren't because the majority of the salaries aren't anything to brag about. The problem isn't EG. The problem is other teams can't compete with EG. Every team should be able to offer good salaries to pro players. But they can't. Because they haven't been as good as EG's management. Simple as that. Every team out there has overlays with their sponsors. Every team out there has their players thank their sponsors in interviews. Every team out there has the sponsors on the jerseys. But can you name every teams sponsors? Nope, but I bet you can name more of EGs than anyone else's. Why? Because they are damn good at what they do. Everyone in the scene has passion. They are here because they love competitive gaming. Even the money we are talking about with EG, its not like the players are getting million dollar contracts. They get comfortable living salaries. Which is a HUGE step for this industry. It means there is hope for this thing we love to become something more. It means players might not have to stop playing at 22 because they have to go to college. It means that players can put off college because they can support themselves of progaming full time. It means there are actual full time jobs available for those to do what they love, rather than hating their 9-5 job. To say EG got in esports for the money is incredibly ignorant. They've just become successful in the money department. I don't think most people are hating on EG because of the money. They are hating on EG because of the money AND the fact that most of their stars (Idra, HuK, Incontrol) aren't winning anything as of late. So there seem to be no correlation between the salary and the results and that's the problem for most people. Now, if Idra had won everything that Stephano had won in the past six month, I don't think anybody would be hating on EG for having so much money.
But I mean it's the same in other sports. There are a bunch of european soccer teams that have been "bought" by some Qatari billionaires and they sign a lot of well-known players and post no results. The reaction from the fans is the same.
Even if they do win, the reaction is the same :/ *cough*fuck chelsea*cough*
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On August 22 2012 20:54 O Fortuna PLS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL  ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity Excuse me, what? Sources please. Their site don't even provide a translation to english (typical french page). Without facts, I won't believe that and will just call it bullshit.
Millenium is 8608 global rank according to http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/millenium.org , you can check with this website if you can find esport website with larger audience, I have personally no idea.
Btw, it looks like French are the second audience to teamliquid.net by far ( 20% USA, 12% France, 6% Canada)
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The question is, who are these "Sources close to the situation" and why would they tell Gamespot about Stephano signing to EG?
I highly doubt it would be EG (spoiling the announcement) or Millenium (since they were the number 2 offer, they might still have had a shot at Stephano if things with EG went awry). I'm guessing the "One team executive" is probably, then, from a third team interested in Stephano, which is interesting because it shows there's a third team who's willing to put up a reasonable ammount of money for a top player.
Or maybe the guys in the scene are always aware of this stuff and everyone in the background already knows this. Or maybe Gamespot (and we) just got trolled big time.
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On August 22 2012 20:54 O Fortuna PLS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity Excuse me, what? Sources please. Their site don't even provide a translation to english (typical french page). Without facts, I won't believe that and will just call it bullshit.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/teamliquid.net 4328th world.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/millenium.org 8608th world.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/thisisgame.com 21032th world.
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Well EG mostly buys player who won at least one really big tournament. From that point its kinda impossible to improve much more. So if they dont repeat their success its automatically the "EG curse!" Although they arent much worse just dont happen to be lucky enough to win another big tournament. Also partly because it gets harder with more koreans participating in the foreign tournaments.
EG would be more likeable if they developed their own talents to great success. Now it just seems like their only benefit is a lot of money.
But yea.. people like trolling.. especially if you can make people angry with it.
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On August 22 2012 20:46 Eviscerador wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity I'm not saying Mill was shit or something. They are doing great, but I don't see their way of making business being profitable on the long term. In fact, I would like to see how they will fare after their best hype player and streamer goes off. Being based on the community and the hype is good when such community is with you, but since SC2 is a player driven game and not a team driven game, community support follow the player where it goes. Honestly I didn't know anything about Mill before Stephano begun to win tournaments. But when EG made their SC2 squad, everyone noticed. They were very busy making you notice that. Also, the reference to Arsenal and ManCity is quite wrong imho. Because EG and Mill both started from zero with different way of making business. Arsenal has a long tradition for their training teams and had (and has) some big names in the team, while Man City was just a giant with mud feet. You can't just make a team buying random good players and expect to do well without a good coach or some teamgame. But SC2 is not Football. You don't need to have good team game. You CAN sign good players and let them play their way.
You never been on the Millenium Website did you ? This is basicaly a community portal on games, with news etc... 3 web tvs streaming 15h/24 with 1500k viewers average.
The millions on kids who follow lol or Dota2 or Boblegob or the Sc2 tutorials don't give a shit about Stephano. To base a strategy on a player is the best way to fall sooner or later.
Millenium is a game/esport news site with a good community, with casuals or expert streams, with an awesome content. They don't need Stephano to produce that content. He rarely streamed on there webtvs and when he did that he did'nt had huge audience.
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On August 22 2012 19:30 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 19:16 SupLilSon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. EG was around for 10 years before Mill even got started. EG has shown they can provide unequaled stability for their players in a volatile market. It's crazy talk to say that other teams have nothing to learn from EG. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 19:13 Otolia wrote:
Making a lot of money doesn't make a team. Yes EG is a successful business but they aren't a successful team. They bought almost every top foreigner who was on a roll and good koreans but even with their outstanding facilities, they had disappointing results after the transfers both in team league and individual leagues. Something is not working as intended in EG and that's what people the EG curse. Tryng to deny it is foolish. So it would seem Millenium is learning from EG after all. Buy good Koreans (Dragon and ForGG), get a training house and still perform poorly. What have Adelscott, Tarson, Diestar and crew been up to lately? Haven't heard much from them in the way of results. I'm gonna stop here because I don't want to hate on any team, I'm just trying to make a point. The same stuff can be said of any number of foreign teams. The fact is teams with money and means are quickly following in EG's steps (Mill included). Trying to deny it is foolish.
Adelscott, Tarson or DieStar were never top players. Nor was Dragon. Feast had some good results in 2012 (a top 4 in IEM WC) and ForGG just got a Assembly Top 4 too. Are those better than EG's results ? Absolutely not ! But none of them is getting a 6 figures salary or is doing commercials. At some point, if you don't perform you are just fluff and unfortunately EG results haven't been as good as they should be based on the talent they bought and structure they have. That's undeniable. And saying it out loud has nothing to do with bias despite what you tends to think.
On August 22 2012 20:54 O Fortuna PLS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity Excuse me, what? Sources please. Their site don't even provide a translation to english (typical french page). Without facts, I won't believe that and will just call it bullshit.
Alexa trafic ranks (1st is better) :
That small list should do it. Next time you should just hold your thought and check before speaking. Alexa's stats might not the most accurate out there but it's still an good representation of the traffic Millenium's website has. A traffic that almost no other gaming company has.
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On August 22 2012 21:03 Vira wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 20:54 O Fortuna PLS wrote:On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity Excuse me, what? Sources please. Their site don't even provide a translation to english (typical french page). Without facts, I won't believe that and will just call it bullshit. Millenium is 8608 global rank according to http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/millenium.org , you can check with this website if you can find esport website with larger audience, I have personally no idea. Btw, it looks like French are the second audience to teamliquid.net by far ( 20% USA, 12% France, 6% Canada)
Btw, it's funny that french is the second best audience of an english community forum when every foreigner claim that french people are terrible at english :D
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I wouldn't for the live of me know what Millenium team sponsos are
I am pretty sure a lot of people on Teamliquid can name the EG players and the EG sponsors quite easily
top of my head
Kingston HyperX
Monster(courtesy of them drinking that stuff everywhere and showing it on screen during tournaments, great plugging.)
Steelseries
Fnatic RC
I don't know the sponsors of most other teams very well but I sure as hell know EG, that is why some teams can take a lesson of their marketing, not because their website views or anything, also Alexa isn't very reliable because afaik it only tracks those who use the Alexa plugin.
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On August 22 2012 21:16 AIOL! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 20:46 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity I'm not saying Mill was shit or something. They are doing great, but I don't see their way of making business being profitable on the long term. In fact, I would like to see how they will fare after their best hype player and streamer goes off. Being based on the community and the hype is good when such community is with you, but since SC2 is a player driven game and not a team driven game, community support follow the player where it goes. Honestly I didn't know anything about Mill before Stephano begun to win tournaments. But when EG made their SC2 squad, everyone noticed. They were very busy making you notice that. Also, the reference to Arsenal and ManCity is quite wrong imho. Because EG and Mill both started from zero with different way of making business. Arsenal has a long tradition for their training teams and had (and has) some big names in the team, while Man City was just a giant with mud feet. You can't just make a team buying random good players and expect to do well without a good coach or some teamgame. But SC2 is not Football. You don't need to have good team game. You CAN sign good players and let them play their way. You never been on the Millenium Website did you ? This is basicaly a community portal on games, with news etc... 3 web tvs streaming 15h/24 with 1500k viewers average. The millions on kids who follow lol or Dota2 or Boblegob or the Sc2 tutorials don't give a shit about Stephano. To base a strategy on a player is the best way to fall sooner or later. Millenium is a game/esport news site with a good community, with casuals or expert streams, with an awesome content. They don't need Stephano to produce that content. He rarely streamed on there webtvs and when he did that he did'nt had huge audience.
well actually u can't blame him to do not know the website, lack of english content
@ Faust852
there is a huge difference between speaks in english and read/write in english, where french aren't that bad
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This is what I just found on @MillMischa's Twitter.
@EGiNcontroL @MillStephano has a huge potential. In the end it is all about being in the right environement to give your best. GL to him
Adding iNcontroL to this tweet pretty much confirms the switch of Stephano to EG.
I don't know if this has been posted in here already and please forgive me for not looking through the 74 pages of this thread for it.
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On August 22 2012 21:20 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 21:16 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 20:46 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity I'm not saying Mill was shit or something. They are doing great, but I don't see their way of making business being profitable on the long term. In fact, I would like to see how they will fare after their best hype player and streamer goes off. Being based on the community and the hype is good when such community is with you, but since SC2 is a player driven game and not a team driven game, community support follow the player where it goes. Honestly I didn't know anything about Mill before Stephano begun to win tournaments. But when EG made their SC2 squad, everyone noticed. They were very busy making you notice that. Also, the reference to Arsenal and ManCity is quite wrong imho. Because EG and Mill both started from zero with different way of making business. Arsenal has a long tradition for their training teams and had (and has) some big names in the team, while Man City was just a giant with mud feet. You can't just make a team buying random good players and expect to do well without a good coach or some teamgame. But SC2 is not Football. You don't need to have good team game. You CAN sign good players and let them play their way. You never been on the Millenium Website did you ? This is basicaly a community portal on games, with news etc... 3 web tvs streaming 15h/24 with 1500k viewers average. The millions on kids who follow lol or Dota2 or Boblegob or the Sc2 tutorials don't give a shit about Stephano. To base a strategy on a player is the best way to fall sooner or later. Millenium is a game/esport news site with a good community, with casuals or expert streams, with an awesome content. They don't need Stephano to produce that content. He rarely streamed on there webtvs and when he did that he did'nt had huge audience. well actually u can't blame him to do not know the website, lack of english content @ Faust852 there is a huge difference between speaks in english and read/write in english, where french aren't that bad
I don't blame him for not goeing to a french site, i'm blaming him for expressing his expert opinion about a site he never went on. Many ppl here talk about things they have no ideas about.
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On August 22 2012 21:18 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 21:03 Vira wrote:On August 22 2012 20:54 O Fortuna PLS wrote:On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity Excuse me, what? Sources please. Their site don't even provide a translation to english (typical french page). Without facts, I won't believe that and will just call it bullshit. Millenium is 8608 global rank according to http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/millenium.org , you can check with this website if you can find esport website with larger audience, I have personally no idea. Btw, it looks like French are the second audience to teamliquid.net by far ( 20% USA, 12% France, 6% Canada) Btw, it's funny that french is the second best audience of an english community forum when every foreigner claim that french people are terrible at english :D
I may be wrong, but if it is a new thing (since 1 or 2years) that French are so numerous on TL, I think Millenium as a role in it. There is a lot of traffic in Millenium, but TL has a lot more depth in SC, and the TL website is mentioned so a lot of people, including me, were introduced to TL through Millenium.
If there have always been way more french on TL than anyone else (except USA), then it is for another reason.
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On August 22 2012 18:37 Incomplet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 17:55 -Archangel- wrote:On August 22 2012 17:49 Linkirvana wrote:On August 22 2012 17:29 fishjie wrote:
why hate on EG for having sponsors? how else do you think they run a sustainable business? look at all the other teams shutting down left and right. EG knows how to get it done with respect to staying profitable, although not in terms of tournament results. believe me, you wanna cheer for EG, because if they fail, then this esports fad will be proven to be unsustainable failure as well. Isn't it obvious why people hate on EG? They are viewed as the corporation team of SC2, they are viewed as the team where the players whore themselves out for awesome salaries. You even point it out yourself: Teams left and right are shutting down, but EG's not, because it has so many sponsors, which automatically begs for the question: How can you have so many sponsors if you're not selling out atleast a little? Personally I get these opinions, because I feel they hold some truth as well, however I do realize that I have way too little insight in EG's business to actually go about and hate on EG, so I won't. However I don't find it strange at all that people draw this conclusion about EG. I don't think this is why people don't like EG. It is more because EG buys good players instead of growing its own and then those good players become average players. I think this is pretty much spot on. And this is one of the big differences between eg and liquid. Nazgul even said in liquid rising that the main objective of the team is to make players better than they already are, even if they are Already code s material. Ie: look at Taeja and how awesome he is performing since he joined liquid. Same with huk when he was in liquid
I wish people would stop parroting this myth that Liquid only picks up up and comers and turns them into champions, and EG buys champions and the "EG curse" turns them into mediocre, overpaid personalities. I think it is much more nuanced than that, and overgeneralization does not do reality justice.
Yeah, EG buys big players, but who wouldn't if the team had money? But one cannot forget Suppy, a relative unknown that is EG's latest pickup. Suppy was just starting to gain recognition but wasn't a big name player yet, but still EG decided to take a risk and acquire him.
Yes, Liquid has really helped develop players such as Hero (oGs B-teamer and generally no-name into what I'd consider top 10 Protoss in the world). But look at a player such as Zenio, who has fallen from Code S to Code B while on Liquid. Liquid curse? No that would be silly, but it is important to realize that it would be difficult and inaccurate to make such sweeping generalizations about Liquid and EG.
Both Liquid and EG have picked up established players, as well as developing players on the rise. Honestly the two teams are not too different in that regard.
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On August 22 2012 21:41 AIOL! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 21:20 Makro wrote:On August 22 2012 21:16 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 20:46 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity I'm not saying Mill was shit or something. They are doing great, but I don't see their way of making business being profitable on the long term. In fact, I would like to see how they will fare after their best hype player and streamer goes off. Being based on the community and the hype is good when such community is with you, but since SC2 is a player driven game and not a team driven game, community support follow the player where it goes. Honestly I didn't know anything about Mill before Stephano begun to win tournaments. But when EG made their SC2 squad, everyone noticed. They were very busy making you notice that. Also, the reference to Arsenal and ManCity is quite wrong imho. Because EG and Mill both started from zero with different way of making business. Arsenal has a long tradition for their training teams and had (and has) some big names in the team, while Man City was just a giant with mud feet. You can't just make a team buying random good players and expect to do well without a good coach or some teamgame. But SC2 is not Football. You don't need to have good team game. You CAN sign good players and let them play their way. You never been on the Millenium Website did you ? This is basicaly a community portal on games, with news etc... 3 web tvs streaming 15h/24 with 1500k viewers average. The millions on kids who follow lol or Dota2 or Boblegob or the Sc2 tutorials don't give a shit about Stephano. To base a strategy on a player is the best way to fall sooner or later. Millenium is a game/esport news site with a good community, with casuals or expert streams, with an awesome content. They don't need Stephano to produce that content. He rarely streamed on there webtvs and when he did that he did'nt had huge audience. well actually u can't blame him to do not know the website, lack of english content @ Faust852 there is a huge difference between speaks in english and read/write in english, where french aren't that bad I don't blame him for not goeing to a french site, i'm blaming him for expressing his expert opinion about a site he never went on. Many ppl here talk about things they have no ideas about.
I just gave my opinion. I never said it was "the truth(tm)" or an expert opinion.
But my lack of knowledge about all those things about Mill pretty much resume all what I said about marketing and projection.
I have never been at the EG website for other part, but I know their players, results and sponsors.
Also, some pro tip. If millenium is doing so well with just a french base community, think what they could do if they offer universal internet language (i.e english) support.
So maybe there are still things they can learn about.
Of course they won't make it. French are pretty know for their politics of "make it so, and make it french or nothing"
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On August 22 2012 21:18 Kipsate wrote:
I wouldn't for the live of me know what Millenium team sponsos are
I am pretty sure a lot of people on Teamliquid can name the EG players and the EG sponsors quite easily
top of my head
Kingston HyperX
Monster(courtesy of them drinking that stuff everywhere and showing it on screen during tournaments, great plugging.)
Steelseries
Fnatic RC
I don't know the sponsors of most other teams very well but I sure as hell know EG, that is why some teams can take a lesson of their marketing, not because their website views or anything, also Alexa isn't very reliable because afaik it only tracks those who use the Alexa plugin.
Yes but Millenium sponsor are mostly for the french so, it's not a big deal u dont know it for them.
Cdiscount is a french shop website, Winamax is a french poker website, MSI is focus on french market,etc.
For example, the MSI pro cup with at least 4 code S korean every month dont provide english stream each time, etc, and it's not a big deal for Millenium and MSI, etc.
I dont like how the french are self centred in Esport, probably for the lack of english but that dont means nothing happens in France. For example, I think ( not sure) we are the only country ( maybe with Korea) who provide a MLG stream this week end.
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Top Search Queries for Teamliquid.net
Query Percent of Search Traffic
1 teamliquid 2.89%
2 team liquid 2.29%
3 liquidpedia 0.60%
4 stephano 0.53%
5 mlg 0.49%
6 tl 0.47%
7 idra stream 0.45%
not really related to this thread, but cray shit, stephano is freaking famous.
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On August 22 2012 21:50 Eviscerador wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 21:41 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 21:20 Makro wrote:On August 22 2012 21:16 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 20:46 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 19:50 AIOL! wrote:On August 22 2012 19:15 Eviscerador wrote:On August 22 2012 18:59 Agathon wrote:On August 22 2012 18:49 Eviscerador wrote:
So one of the best zergs in the world and most probably the current best foreigner zerg has signed a big contract which will allow him to live from gaming and keep travelling and going to tournaments.
Seems good for the scene.
Maybe other teams should take a look at the EG's ways to manage a proficient e-sports team.
Because without sponsors and money, we won't have all the stuff we have at the scene. Good will and improvement are good in spirit, but doesn't pay bills and flight tickets.
Also "Oh noez!! The EG curse is incomingzz!!" just to stay in line with the topic.
Congrats to EG and Stephano for the deal! Stephano had no problem for living from gaming and travelling with Millenium. The only difference between EG and Millenium is the size of the check, huge or big. But Mill (or other teams) have nothing to learn from EG. Nothing at all. You always have something to learn from your enemy either to improve your management or to watch out for future mistakes. I know french pride is bigger than the Eiffel tower but... some pragmatism is welcome at business. Because we are talking about business isn't it? Also, if Mill has enough, then why didn't they keep him? Yeah, because they can't afford it. Maybe if they had better management, marketing and sponsorship they could. But at this moment EG bank is bigger due to their marketing investment. And they are also signing new and uprising players, so it is not only they got well established players. Don't get me wrong. I'm supporting EG second to Karont3, a spanish pro team which has begun few months ago. (Which I would like to have the badge for it at TL ) But I like the way they do business. Millenium is just the second most viewed esport team site behind Teamliquid, just sayin. They have nothing to learn from EG, what they did is just fantastic, there structure is really strong. They have like 20 employes. financially they are growing exponentialy without big sponsors like EG. Everything is based on community and the web tv. This reminds me Arsenal vs Mancity I'm not saying Mill was shit or something. They are doing great, but I don't see their way of making business being profitable on the long term. In fact, I would like to see how they will fare after their best hype player and streamer goes off. Being based on the community and the hype is good when such community is with you, but since SC2 is a player driven game and not a team driven game, community support follow the player where it goes. Honestly I didn't know anything about Mill before Stephano begun to win tournaments. But when EG made their SC2 squad, everyone noticed. They were very busy making you notice that. Also, the reference to Arsenal and ManCity is quite wrong imho. Because EG and Mill both started from zero with different way of making business. Arsenal has a long tradition for their training teams and had (and has) some big names in the team, while Man City was just a giant with mud feet. You can't just make a team buying random good players and expect to do well without a good coach or some teamgame. But SC2 is not Football. You don't need to have good team game. You CAN sign good players and let them play their way. You never been on the Millenium Website did you ? This is basicaly a community portal on games, with news etc... 3 web tvs streaming 15h/24 with 1500k viewers average. The millions on kids who follow lol or Dota2 or Boblegob or the Sc2 tutorials don't give a shit about Stephano. To base a strategy on a player is the best way to fall sooner or later. Millenium is a game/esport news site with a good community, with casuals or expert streams, with an awesome content. They don't need Stephano to produce that content. He rarely streamed on there webtvs and when he did that he did'nt had huge audience. well actually u can't blame him to do not know the website, lack of english content @ Faust852 there is a huge difference between speaks in english and read/write in english, where french aren't that bad I don't blame him for not goeing to a french site, i'm blaming him for expressing his expert opinion about a site he never went on. Many ppl here talk about things they have no ideas about. I just gave my opinion. I never said it was "the truth(tm)" or an expert opinion. But my lack of knowledge about all those things about Mill pretty much resume all what I said about marketing and projection. I have never been at the EG website for other part, but I know their players, results and sponsors. Also, some pro tip. If millenium is doing so well with just a french base community, think what they could do if they offer universal internet language (i.e english) support. So maybe there are still things they can learn about. Of course they won't make it. French are pretty know for their politics of "make it so, and make it french or nothing"
I also wonder what is that french bashing hype on TL. Is Karont3 an international site ? no. I won't cry, but i can make an effort if i want to go to a foreign site, even if i don't undertand fully the language. You are spanish you should understand like 50% of thing on Mill.
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On August 22 2012 21:57 ChaosArcher wrote:
Top Search Queries for Teamliquid.net
Query Percent of Search Traffic
1 teamliquid 2.89%
2 team liquid 2.29%
3 liquidpedia 0.60%
4 stephano 0.53%
5 mlg 0.49%
6 tl 0.47%
7 idra stream 0.45%
not really related to this thread, but cray shit, stephano is freaking famous.
As is Idra... lol.
EG very smart with how they invest.
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EPT
