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On July 16 2012 16:57 alderamin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 16:55 raser wrote:
- It's against the EULA.
just so you know, trading and selling accounts/games is legal in europe, no mather what blizzard put in their EULA So you can cheat and Blizzard can't do a think about it... lol You don't go to jail if you break Blizzard's rules. You will get banned. Different issues. It's amazing that people defend it by saying it is not a big deal. It is more amazing to see people say it is not a big deal because it doesn't hurt esports (Why isn't Blizzard in esports jail then?) What baffles me the most is people say it's ok because progames need money. Wowow the logic. Don't even know where to start.
I believe a judge ruled that digital products have to be resellable. It goes above blizzard actually; they have to let you resell your game.
edit: plz start, i dont know what you have to argue against all those valid points.
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On July 16 2012 16:59 Zrana wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 16:55 IntoTheheart wrote:On July 16 2012 16:54 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On July 16 2012 16:50 Megaliskuu wrote:
Don't see how this is a big deal at all, let the morons get their account leveled, most pros arent paid very well..they need to make money somehow right? If they can't make enough money doing legitimate stuff like streaming/winning/salary/coaching, then maybe they should consider a different career. It ruins the integrity of the ladder. Any pro that would do this would lose my support. I think that we'll need a confirmation from a pro in NA/EU/KOR/etc to see whether or not it's possible to sustain oneself reasonably without having some extra money injections. Some pros (like Nestea) are good enough to win tournaments on their own, and have a salary. I don't know what it's like for other pros though. Well that draws an interesting question; if a player can't win enough to sustain themselves are they actually a pro? Where do you draw the line between a pro player and someone who just plays a lot of starcraft?
To me a pro is someone sponsored by a team or sponsor. But I don't know how much money is in a sponsorship. That's why I wanted a pro to respond to whether or not it's possible to sustain themselves as a gamer easily (without getting an additional day job to keep food on the table, or having to stream about 12 hours a day to get the ad revenue money up).
If it's enough that one can easily survive and live decently, I'll agree that it's not the right decision to make.
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Most of your points are not that big of deal but you bring up the fact about up and coming players trying to get into GM. This is a very good point considering that once you are placed into GM its almost impossible to be demoted until next season. And for players who are pro level its not very hard to re-level accounts each season.
Something should be done as it hurts top masters players trying to break into the scene. I float around the high masters level and offer free coaching my current goal is to break into GM and possibly start charging a nominal fee. Things like this make it harder for people like me.
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On July 16 2012 17:02 jcroisdale wrote:
Most of your points are not that big of deal but you bring up the fact about up and coming players trying to get into GM. This is a very good point considering that once you are placed into GM its almost impossible to be demoted until next season. And for players who are pro level its not very hard to re-level accounts each season.
Something should be done as it hurts top masters players trying to break into the scene. I float around the high masters level and offer free coaching my current goal is to break into GM and possibly start charging a nominal fee. Things like this make it harder for people like me.
If you don't mind me asking, do people (customers I mean) look at high masters and GM differently (assuming that they know that getting out of GM is really, really hard).
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I can see that it might become an issue if tournaments like the WCS use ladder ranks as consideration for spots at tournaments. Didn't we all raise hell when that maphacker got a trip to WCS USA? It is possible that this could become an issue.
Otherwise, it is just sketchy to me, but there isn't much you can do about it. Pros need to make a living, and many don't see an issue with getting paid to level an account. It's not egregious, and I hope it stays that way.
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the problems are that ppl are clogging up gm slots and also ppl that got their accs leveled can use gm as credential to sell coaching to those that don't know any better. its a big issue if you think about that ...
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On July 16 2012 17:00 Insomni7 wrote:
I believe a judge ruled that digital products have to be resellable. It goes above blizzard actually; they have to let you resell your game.
edit: plz start, i dont know what you have to argue against all those valid points.
I edited and added it anyway considering there's so many idiots here.
Cheating the ladder and reselling digital products are completely different things. Ladder manipulation is ladder abuse is cheating. It is pretty clear. Blizzard will ban you account for that. How can you argue in court? "I should be allowed to cheat boo boo." Also, if these fake progamers need money so badly they are forced to cheat/hack, then how are they going to pay for the lawyer?
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I guess the part about people selling fake lessons is actually pretty awful.
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Back when i played WoW this used to be a bit of a problem with kids paying to have people carry arena teams, i had a 2500 rated team and never engaged in the practice myself and wasnt particularly phased by it - at the end of the day they will always be gutter. It makes even less sense in starcraft because whilst in WoW there is the capacity to access greater gear no such benefits exist in SC2 and thus such accounts as far as im concerned are no different to people smurfing.
At the end of the day, once the account has been power leveled it will be dormant in the pool because whoever the real owner is will know they're incapable of queuing into high masters/GM players.
For the arguement about GM spaces, its a moot point because accounts have to be active to retain the place - unless you kept your local pro-gamer on a retainer to boost you regularly theres noway your going to maintain it. And even if you did, how would this be different to progamers whom have multiple accounts all in GM? Believe it or not such people do exist, and we dont have a go at them about it
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On July 16 2012 17:04 KimJongChill wrote:
I guess the part about people selling fake lessons is actually pretty awful.
Mmhmm. Does anyone actually do this though? I'm hoping that people who get powerlevelled by a pro would have the foresight that it's not a great idea to screw with peoples' minds.
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Whether its Naama, or Forgg leveing an account, it doesn't matter really, its not right. Sure, you can use the arguement that they need money too, but that isn't good enough.
If they wanna make a little more money then they should do lessons.
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Halo pros used to make account in Halo 3 and get them to rank 50 and sell them. I don't think its that big of a deal
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Whats the max bonus pool you can have to stay in GM again? 50- 100? so thats what, maybe 5-7 days?
Man, So many stupid people on the internet. Same douchbags who spend on their money in the d3 RMAH IMO... no skill, no patience, big mouth...
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Lol who the fuck gives a fuck? These kinds of things are so silly. OMG they aren't following the eula 100%, scumbag criminals omgawd. While we are on the subject of eula, have you even read it?
On July 16 2012 17:10 Douillos wrote:
Whats the max bonus pool you can have to stay in GM again? 50- 100? so thats what, maybe 5-7 days?
Man, So many stupid people on the internet. Same douchbags who spend on their money in the d3 RMAH IMO... no skill, no patience, big mouth...
I think people who make these kinds of topics are far worse scumbags.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Reasons this is a serious matter
1. Lowers the integrity of the ladder
2. Some aspiring players rely on ladder ranking to get noticed
3. Some tournaments look at ladder ranking for invites/qualification
4. Against EULA? Not sure
5. Cheating is cheating is cheating, ends don't justify the means, etc.
Reasons why it isn't so bad:
1. Pros don't take ladder seriously; only tournament results matter
2. The ladder isn't very good nor accurate
3. Lots of pros and other good players have multiple accounts hogging all the GM spots anyway
4. Semi-pros get to earn some money
5. This doesn't hurt esports....... ???
Overall I think that if Blizzard take their ladder seriously then they should at least try to make sure accounts like these never make it to GM, unless the accounts are played on frequently enough to count as a smurf (then I guess they should qualify). I do think that the accounts need to be punished (not be allowed into GM or masters[?]), but I don't think that players should be banned or expelled because of it.
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On July 16 2012 17:00 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 16:59 Zrana wrote:On July 16 2012 16:55 IntoTheheart wrote:On July 16 2012 16:54 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On July 16 2012 16:50 Megaliskuu wrote:
Don't see how this is a big deal at all, let the morons get their account leveled, most pros arent paid very well..they need to make money somehow right? If they can't make enough money doing legitimate stuff like streaming/winning/salary/coaching, then maybe they should consider a different career. It ruins the integrity of the ladder. Any pro that would do this would lose my support. I think that we'll need a confirmation from a pro in NA/EU/KOR/etc to see whether or not it's possible to sustain oneself reasonably without having some extra money injections. Some pros (like Nestea) are good enough to win tournaments on their own, and have a salary. I don't know what it's like for other pros though. Well that draws an interesting question; if a player can't win enough to sustain themselves are they actually a pro? Where do you draw the line between a pro player and someone who just plays a lot of starcraft? To me a pro is someone sponsored by a team or sponsor. But I don't know how much money is in a sponsorship. That's why I wanted a pro to respond to whether or not it's possible to sustain themselves as a gamer easily (without getting an additional day job to keep food on the table, or having to stream about 12 hours a day to get the ad revenue money up). If it's enough that one can easily survive and live decently, I'll agree that it's not the right decision to make.
What about grubby? I think he is not sponsored by anyone
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I approve of this. It means I have a small chance to play against a progamer some day!
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Won't you be remove from GM if you don't play ?
Pretty sure i read that somewhere.
If not, just wait a little the account will go down. It's just the stupidest way of spending your money. I have still a little faith in humanity and don't believe that there so much of people paying for that.
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I don't really see the problem. Most pro's need the extra income and if it lets more people practice full-time, then that equals better games for the rest of us to watch.
On the point that it keeps semi-pro's out of GM, I would say if they can't make GM then they aren't worth going pro in the first place and not really worthy of a team. Not to mention even if GM was just 10 people and the rest their accounts, all you would need to do is perform well at a tournament, look at Scarlett.
To the offering coaching, if you are taking coaching off someone you have never seen play then that's on you and the people in need of high level coaching, not just learning basics, would be able to tell the person doesn't know what they are talking about fast.
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Sad that it keeps people out of GM who want to be there. I feel that it is indeed a big issue for those. Sad that it is only 0.01% of the community so probably nothing will happen because nobody will care.
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EPT
