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I dont know why this thread has gone on so long. It looks like the major consensus is "who cares."
1) This ranks right up there with Pro's having more than 1 account. So are you going to tell all the Pro players that pratice on more than one account should be banned by Blizzard for breaking their agreement. I think you would have a lot of Pro's outraged.
2) You forget that to stay in GM you have to continuously keep your bonus pool under 180. Which means you have to play several games every two weeks. So whoever you are paying for these services you have to retain indefinitely or you will be kicked out of GM. I'm sure the novelty wears of quickly when you are paying for a account you can't even play.
3) GM has become a bit of a joke. I used to care about being in GM, now many pros are satisfied playing on smurf accounts or practicing in other regions, (NA/KR/EU etc)
4) You mention that a player has the potential of to enter a, possibly elite, team due to misleading circumstances like being ranked GM; however, I don't know if you've ever played with a team, but they do have tryouts. And it will become immediately obvious their "new recruit" is not GM. So that point is easily shot down.
I remember when I was about to claim a spot for GM I saw someone ladder at the same time as me, but he was using a team member, who had the same MMR (and was GM), to ladder snipe at the same time. I thought it was "unfair" at first but then I decided not to get uptight about it and got into GM either way...
I suggest you focus on what is important in life, there will always be this kind of stuff.
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TLDR: Some people are acting retarded and paying for worthless shit. We want to take that option away from them.
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On July 21 2012 02:53 Kilby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 02:44 yeint wrote:On July 16 2012 16:55 raser wrote:
- It's against the EULA.
just so you know, trading and selling accounts/games is legal in europe, no mather what blizzard put in their EULA Trading and selling accounts is not legal in Europe. Trading and selling licenses is legal in Europe. A progamer can sell his SC2 license, but legally he is not allowed to play on it anymore, and Blizzard is perfectly within their rights to tie ladder rank and achievements to the Bnet account instead of the license. Are you sure selling licenses is legal? I mean, I think the original EULA already says the SC2 license is non-transferable and non-resellable, isn't that right?
It's not yet, but a recent court decision will probably lead to it becoming legal in the EU.
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On July 21 2012 03:11 SirPinky wrote:
I dont know why this thread has gone on so long. It looks like the major consensus is "who cares."
1) This ranks right up there with Pro's having more than 1 account. So are you going to tell all the Pro players that pratice on more than one account should be banned by Blizzard for breaking their agreement. I think you would have a lot of Pro's outraged.
2) You forget that to stay in GM you have to continuously keep your bonus pool under 180. Which means you have to play several games every two weeks. So whoever you are paying for these services you have to retain indefinitely or you will be kicked out of GM. I'm sure the novelty wears of quickly when you are paying for a account you can't even play.
3) GM has become a bit of a joke. I used to care about being in GM, now many pros are satisfied playing on smurf accounts or practicing in other regions, (NA/KR/EU etc)
4) You mention that a player has the potential of to enter a, possibly elite, team due to misleading circumstances like being ranked GM; however, I don't know if you've ever played with a team, but they do have tryouts. And it will become immediately obvious their "new recruit" is not GM. So that point is easily shot down.
I remember when I was about to claim a spot for GM I saw someone ladder at the same time as me, but he was using a team member, who had the same MMR (and was GM), to ladder snipe at the same time. I thought it was "unfair" at first but then I decided not to get uptight about it and got into GM either way...
I suggest you focus on what is important in life, there will always be this kind of stuff.
There is good reason why pro play on smurf account: make it harder to scout. It would suck to prepare a build for a big tournament, only to have it show up all over the place because your opponent was running a stream at the moment. Or simpler yet, people can just check your match history and see who you are winning / losing against and using what opening on what map (which you can see alot pros do already when they streaming online tournaments).
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Given that the 1v1 player is irrefutably Naama
Your evidence is that they have the same hotkeys? People copy pro players all the time.
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On July 23 2012 08:39 AcrosstheSky wrote:Your evidence is that they have the same hotkeys? People copy pro players all the time.
No, he did hotkey analysis, AKA comparing the hotkey usage. That's quite different
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On July 21 2012 03:11 SirPinky wrote:
I dont know why this thread has gone on so long. It looks like the major consensus is "who cares."
1) This ranks right up there with Pro's having more than 1 account. So are you going to tell all the Pro players that pratice on more than one account should be banned by Blizzard for breaking their agreement. I think you would have a lot of Pro's outraged.
2) You forget that to stay in GM you have to continuously keep your bonus pool under 180. Which means you have to play several games every two weeks. So whoever you are paying for these services you have to retain indefinitely or you will be kicked out of GM. I'm sure the novelty wears of quickly when you are paying for a account you can't even play.
3) GM has become a bit of a joke. I used to care about being in GM, now many pros are satisfied playing on smurf accounts or practicing in other regions, (NA/KR/EU etc)
4) You mention that a player has the potential of to enter a, possibly elite, team due to misleading circumstances like being ranked GM; however, I don't know if you've ever played with a team, but they do have tryouts. And it will become immediately obvious their "new recruit" is not GM. So that point is easily shot down.
I remember when I was about to claim a spot for GM I saw someone ladder at the same time as me, but he was using a team member, who had the same MMR (and was GM), to ladder snipe at the same time. I thought it was "unfair" at first but then I decided not to get uptight about it and got into GM either way...
I suggest you focus on what is important in life, there will always be this kind of stuff.
Haha I remember that queue arranging too. Although point #2 is kind of null, since they can tank their mmr to wherever, stay in gm, and still get +12 per even match, so staying in is rather easy once you're in.
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I don't want to criticise anybody and it's true that progamers have low income compared to the level of skill they need to have and time investment they need to make. Tournament prizes and sponsorship/salary deals should be better than they are.
Also, I don't want to claim this is some kind of big crime. Many of us have probably copied homework, solved tasks for friends/coworkers, covered up for others, signed stuff that isn't true (in a minor matter).
But account levelling is unacceptable for reasons that have already been stated by others. By unnacceptable I don't mean unforgivable or horribly, absolutely wrong. I mean it can't be condoned, it can't be accepted as a part of life.
If you look at it this way, facing a bronze-gold player with a maphack is less unfair on the opponent than facing someone with actual skill several leagues beyond. The advantage in a bronze-gold match from having, say, GM-level skill, is greater than the advantage from maphack. It's not fair for the low leaguers who expect to face someone of their own skill. We don't want SC2 ladder to turn into what the WC3 ladder is believed to be: full of hackers and smurfs.
In addition to destroying games for lower league people, taking up GM spots is not okay (in fact, GM should be 200 top people on the server, not 200 top accounts), taking up Master spots (top 2% of the diamond base) for people who shouldn't be there is not okay, either. Just think what if everybody did that. Ladder would be a total mess. Just because not everybody is doing that, so the problem should be smaller-scale isn't really a great excuse.
On the other hand, making up rules and enforcing them doesn't really solve problems:
1. I suppose there are people who want to have a brush with higher skill levels than their own and watching streams or replays or VODs of better players isn't enough for them. They need something more hands-on. Why not make it possible for such people to experience from time to time how to feels to play against a highly skilled player? Heck, just asking politely on TL would probably make it happen. Joining a clan gives you the opportunity to become friends with people on higher skill levels, e.g. when the top of the clan participates in regional tournaments: you talk to them, they talk to small-time tournament winners, who talk to big-time winners, who talk to top names in SC2... You don't need to meet highly skilled and/or highly ranked players in your random-matched ladder games.
2. Feel like you can't get better on your own? => Find someone who will coach you (and especially if you're low-level, there are enough people willing to teach you a bit for a polite thank you). Don't fake master/GM, getting to master or even diamond (or any league above where you currently are) on your own should feel better than that. And remember that some of the pros sucked like really hard before they started gaming seriously. They lost 1v1s against the computer too, they got defeated by nobodies on the ladder too, but they practiced and practiced and practiced until they got better. Some big names have natural talents. But some are probably people with normal natural abilities who simply worked hard for what they achieved.
3. Feel like you aren't getting the appreciation you need (bragging rights, respect etc.)? That's the reason Blizzard introduced multiple divisions within leagues in order to lessen the feeling of being an insignificant drop in the ocean that's the player base.  Try to focus on your division rather than the entire battle.net with its many leagues. If this doesn't work, find a clan. Make friends with your new clan buddies, train with them, some clans provide free coaching to their members by higher-ranked members, clan wars and other opportunities to make a name within a small circle. Speaking of small circles, get involved with your national scene, as opposed to the entire world with emphasis on Korea (you gotta be the best in your town before you can be the best of the world). Help somebody who has less skill than you do and help him jump a league or two (by coaching, not by playing on his account). You don't need the fake bling of just being listed in a league that isn't your real skill level.
4. Feel like you suck? Coach someone who does actually suck. Answer questions for newbies. Become a clan grandfather. Hang out in the national channel. Or just make a custom game, meet people who aren't as good as the guys your MMR finds for you. Or stop playing to win, whether it takes cheese or superhuman effort on your part, play standard, play normal, play "like the real you" and stick with that, should be less straining. Or go play teams or customs for a while. 1v1 ladder can be very frustrating. Some people need to take weeks or months off, this is normal.
This said, I wish we had a livelier clan scene, livelier national or regional scenes etc., more opportunities for people to interact across different skill levels, gain some achievements to be proud of before actually reaching the top themselves. This could help whatever drives people to pay for their accounts to be levelled.
Bonus:
If you hate the game, don't want to spend your time on it, don't feel like practicing it... you really don't have to. Just get a different game or even different genre, one you like. Prove yourself in a different field, where you feel better competing (including school or work).
On July 21 2012 03:50 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 02:53 Kilby wrote:On July 21 2012 02:44 yeint wrote:On July 16 2012 16:55 raser wrote:
- It's against the EULA.
just so you know, trading and selling accounts/games is legal in europe, no mather what blizzard put in their EULA Trading and selling accounts is not legal in Europe. Trading and selling licenses is legal in Europe. A progamer can sell his SC2 license, but legally he is not allowed to play on it anymore, and Blizzard is perfectly within their rights to tie ladder rank and achievements to the Bnet account instead of the license. Are you sure selling licenses is legal? I mean, I think the original EULA already says the SC2 license is non-transferable and non-resellable, isn't that right? It's not yet, but a recent court decision will probably lead to it becoming legal in the EU.
(I'm a lawyer, which doesn't mean I'm smarter or that I'm right or make better arguments but I know a little of what I'm talking about.) Well, there's a difference between selling your game or selling your account in the sense of a login that allows you to play a game, and selling a set of achievements that you claim to have earned on your own. The law doesn't forbid private sports leagues from banning the sale of qualification places; if a league says money can't buy you placement, then money can't buy you placement and two parties: one desiring to sell and one desiring to buy can do nothing about it. While not a formalised sport, e-sports isn't much different and a "league" is named so for a reason. (And obviously you can't sell honorary citizenships, medals, academic degrees, awards and those type of things.) A decent lawyer with some brains and some knowledge of the subject should be able to convince a not overly ignorant panel of judges to see it in this light, and focus on the earned achievement aspect as opposed to the freedom of selling a game/account. It would only need the judges not to be dumb enough to think this is about selling a copy of the game but instead to be smart enough to notice the obvious: that it is about selling the league placement that's supposed to be a measure of your individual skill blended with personal achievement, both of which Blizzard has a very good reason to make non-transferable. Unlike a simple CD-key, where a gaming company undertakes to undermine a perfectly valid right of the consumer in order to increase its own proceeds from sales.
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I hope I don't make this thread redundant of the VeraLynn issue by bumping it, but I think that issue shows once again that the problem of account leveling isn't necessarily small potatoes. I added the VeraLynn thread to my point #6. Kawaii's hotkey analysis also proves once again that smurf accounts and leveled accounts can be identified by the sc2gears hotkey graphs. It really is a fingerprint for SC2 players. And believe it or not there are definitely a finite number of players from each race to check once you've seen a replay and know that it's very high level play.
So, needless to say this kind of thing is still going on. Naama continues to level the IMMvp account, with 34 games played this season.
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On September 25 2012 07:07 Doodsmack wrote:
I hope I don't make this thread redundant of the VeraLynn issue by bumping it, but I think that issue shows once again that the problem of account leveling isn't necessarily small potatoes. I added the VeraLynn thread to my point #6. Kawaii's hotkey analysis also proves once again that smurf accounts and leveled accounts can be identified by the sc2gears hotkey graphs. It really is a fingerprint for SC2 players. And believe it or not there are definitely a finite number of players from each race to check once you've seen a replay and know that it's very high level play.
So, needless to say this kind of thing is still going on. Naama continues to level the IMMvp account, with 34 games played this season.
Nope.jpg
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On September 25 2012 07:07 Doodsmack wrote:
I hope I don't make this thread redundant of the VeraLynn issue by bumping it, but I think that issue shows once again that the problem of account leveling isn't necessarily small potatoes. I added the VeraLynn thread to my point #6. Kawaii's hotkey analysis also proves once again that smurf accounts and leveled accounts can be identified by the sc2gears hotkey graphs. It really is a fingerprint for SC2 players. And believe it or not there are definitely a finite number of players from each race to check once you've seen a replay and know that it's very high level play.
So, needless to say this kind of thing is still going on. Naama continues to level the IMMvp account, with 34 games played this season.
I could be 100% wrong here, but I believe IMMvp is an account Dragon plays on.
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On July 16 2012 16:41 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 16:40 Tachion wrote:
I'm sorry for skimping around the main issue, but what compels people to pay for this in the first place? So they can brag to ignorant friends about how good they are? It seems like it's the only advantage since those GM accounts won't stay at GM level for very long right?
pretty much, ive never understood why you want to pay someone to level your account when you'll instantly lose as soon as you play on it yourself.
Nice waste of money but if people enjoy being fucktards thats up to them. At least they're supporting the progamers
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you just gotta accept that something like this is gonna happen in any game.
sc2 is not the first game offering boosting for money.
if they really wanna stop it, take away ranks (halo 4 wont have ranks because of account selling in 3 lol) -_-
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On September 28 2012 01:17 FnaticNaama wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 07:07 Doodsmack wrote:
I hope I don't make this thread redundant of the VeraLynn issue by bumping it, but I think that issue shows once again that the problem of account leveling isn't necessarily small potatoes. I added the VeraLynn thread to my point #6. Kawaii's hotkey analysis also proves once again that smurf accounts and leveled accounts can be identified by the sc2gears hotkey graphs. It really is a fingerprint for SC2 players. And believe it or not there are definitely a finite number of players from each race to check once you've seen a replay and know that it's very high level play.
So, needless to say this kind of thing is still going on. Naama continues to level the IMMvp account, with 34 games played this season. Nope.jpg
Well the evidence is there in the OP, I'd be happy to hear you counter it.
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On September 25 2012 07:07 Doodsmack wrote:
I hope I don't make this thread redundant of the VeraLynn issue by bumping it, but I think that issue shows once again that the problem of account leveling isn't necessarily small potatoes. I added the VeraLynn thread to my point #6. Kawaii's hotkey analysis also proves once again that smurf accounts and leveled accounts can be identified by the sc2gears hotkey graphs. It really is a fingerprint for SC2 players. And believe it or not there are definitely a finite number of players from each race to check once you've seen a replay and know that it's very high level play.
So, needless to say this kind of thing is still going on. Naama continues to level the IMMvp account, with 34 games played this season.
IMMvp was smurf for a pro player that is not Naama 100%. i randomly know who plays on it, but that's besides the point, because if it's the same account (you can have multiple immvp with different char.code), it was "leveled" long time ago. meaning a GM player was using it extensively like some time ago as a smurf.
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On July 21 2012 01:38 DougJDempsey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 00:42 StatixEx wrote:On July 21 2012 00:30 Shiori wrote:On July 21 2012 00:25 ABear wrote:
I'm not sure how people can support this. It isn't really an honest way to make money. If they need money, they should coach, sell replays(this might be against the TOS though so maybe not), enter more tournaments, stream more etc. What's dishonest about it? This hurts actually no one. It's exactly the same as pros leveling up multiple accounts into GM. yes, this is a bigger problem. i cant get into GM cos naniwa and his RO32 mates have 12 accounts in there! (just using him as example . . chill ur beans people) So... You are using this as a excuse for your inability to get into GM? If you are good enough it'll happen. IF. So if you arent dont delude yourself.
I am using this excuse for an inability to get into gm? You mean me? personally? I dont give a fuck about people who level into GM from another GM was the context of my post, whatuonaboubro?. You might want to read the post and read for understanding. I dont do it. im not interested in getting into GM. This game doesnt dominate my life but i really enjoy playing it.
With the lawyer guy . . . Of course we dont want to see it but id like to see a bronze map hacker beat anyone plat and higher, we can hit the keys faster than the dude, he will never win, ill beat them with mass queens
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On September 28 2012 02:45 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 01:17 FnaticNaama wrote:On September 25 2012 07:07 Doodsmack wrote:
I hope I don't make this thread redundant of the VeraLynn issue by bumping it, but I think that issue shows once again that the problem of account leveling isn't necessarily small potatoes. I added the VeraLynn thread to my point #6. Kawaii's hotkey analysis also proves once again that smurf accounts and leveled accounts can be identified by the sc2gears hotkey graphs. It really is a fingerprint for SC2 players. And believe it or not there are definitely a finite number of players from each race to check once you've seen a replay and know that it's very high level play.
So, needless to say this kind of thing is still going on. Naama continues to level the IMMvp account, with 34 games played this season. Nope.jpg Well the evidence is there in the OP, I'd be happy to hear you counter it.
Here's the counter: what VeraLynn did was wrong because she used her high ranked account for personal gain, and ditto for DA, not because DA leveled the account itself. Frankly, if you want to let someone play on your account, that's your own damn business, and if a pro wants to offer their services, that's their damn business.
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On September 28 2012 02:47 snailz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 07:07 Doodsmack wrote:
I hope I don't make this thread redundant of the VeraLynn issue by bumping it, but I think that issue shows once again that the problem of account leveling isn't necessarily small potatoes. I added the VeraLynn thread to my point #6. Kawaii's hotkey analysis also proves once again that smurf accounts and leveled accounts can be identified by the sc2gears hotkey graphs. It really is a fingerprint for SC2 players. And believe it or not there are definitely a finite number of players from each race to check once you've seen a replay and know that it's very high level play.
So, needless to say this kind of thing is still going on. Naama continues to level the IMMvp account, with 34 games played this season. IMMvp was smurf for a pro player that is not Naama 100%. i randomly know who plays on it, but that's besides the point, because if it's the same account (you can have multiple immvp with different char.code), it was "leveled" long time ago. meaning a GM player was using it extensively like some time ago as a smurf.
You may be referring to the EU IMMvp account, which beasty played on (interesting to hear you say he leveled it though, i thought it was just a smurf). The account that I talk about in the OP is an NA account, and I presented irrefutable proof that its Naama.
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EPT
