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These new units just feel so... Ugh, compared to some of the sc1 units that have been cut. Frankly I don't care about balance, I care about theme and cool factor. Swarm host is pretty good, so is the viper (although stupid name) and it's nice that Terran is getting a mine back... Much better idea than the Shredder. People like big explosions and shrapnel, invisible waves of radiation not so much.
The warhound is exactly the same as a marauder. The toss air units are laughable. Carriers were sleek, intimidating manifestations of Protoss fury, raining death upon hapless civilizations. Anyone ever see the music video "through the fire and the flames"? It had carriers in it. This is an iconic unit. Now they want you to have a flying photon cannon (tempest) and unit that is specifically designed not to kill things, but to be annoying (oracle).
I just really wonder what happened to the creative team that brought us those sleek, lethal, explosive, intimidating killing machines that made bw such a thrill to watch. The units seem to have little personality now. The toss ones especially just look like flying buildings. The warhound is butt ugly.
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Carriers were never sleek or intimidating in game, though. They were massive slow-moving units that could NOT be micro'd (take away the scoot/shoot of the Phoenix and give it to the Carrier, then we'd be intimidated). As is, the most expensive unit for the Protoss army could be taken out by a handful of Marines and Stim, or a pack of blink Stalkers. They really only worked against Zerg, in theory, but by the time you can get them out we're knocking on your door with our third 200/200 ling/roach/infestor/ultra army. If anything, the 22 (omfg!) range AA/AG siege flying unit scares me more than anything the Carrier currently is in SC2.
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They should just make four interceptors orbit around the tempest...just for the sake of the name. It's more like a thunderbolt than a tempest now lol.
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did he really just say that the locusts can hit air?
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On June 15 2012 16:25 ixi.genocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 16:09 Evangelist wrote:On June 15 2012 15:39 Kharnage wrote:On June 14 2012 21:48 WarangelEldrith wrote:
just drop the thor and the warhound and add the goliath :> It does seem like they have created this weird problem by removing a good unit and stubbornly refusing to put it back  The role of the goliath is filled by the marine, though - why build a gas heavy unit from a factory one at a time when you can build a cheaper, faster, healable unit 2 at a time from a rax? Thors do something unique though. They do a lot of ground DPS and very little air DPS, but over a wide area, A single thor can fortify a turret line or make cost efficient trades with zerg trying to pick off tanks and so on. Two thors can fortify a wide area. Three can pretty much prevent mutalisk harass of an army combined with more than a handful of marines. The way that terrans use thors is actually really unique. I'm not sure I'd want to replace thors with goliaths at this point. Why would you use a gas heavy unit from a factory to cover the best AA unit in the game >.>
The main weakness of said "best AA unit" is its range. Thors, like vikings with void rays, keep the mutalisks from dancing around just outside of the marine's range. Now, debates on whether or not this is good/skillful game design (as mutalisk harass can now be easily shut down without huge micro on the Terran's part) are still relevant, but it's definitely a good strategy given the game as it is.
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Russian Federation899 Posts
On June 15 2012 16:09 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 15:39 Kharnage wrote:On June 14 2012 21:48 WarangelEldrith wrote:
just drop the thor and the warhound and add the goliath :> It does seem like they have created this weird problem by removing a good unit and stubbornly refusing to put it back The role of the goliath is filled by the marine, though - why build a gas heavy unit from a factory one at a time when you can build a cheaper, faster, healable unit 2 at a time from a rax? Thors do something unique though. They do a lot of ground DPS and very little air DPS, but over a wide area, A single thor can fortify a turret line or make cost efficient trades with zerg trying to pick off tanks and so on. Two thors can fortify a wide area. Three can pretty much prevent mutalisk harass of an army combined with more than a handful of marines. The way that terrans use thors is actually really unique. I'm not sure I'd want to replace thors with goliaths at this point.
what the heck does barracks unit has to do with factory unit?
Factory units should reinforce mech play, not act as a mere addition to bio style.
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Due to a variety of things I was unable to update this as planned. Tonight I will be going ahead and getting the info I have up there. Sorry about the delay!
lol op you haven't updated your blog yet.
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On June 15 2012 17:17 madskillz2288 wrote:
did he really just say that the locusts can hit air?
Apparently they spit projectiles, think Hydralisks lol.
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On June 15 2012 17:18 YoureFired wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 16:25 ixi.genocide wrote:On June 15 2012 16:09 Evangelist wrote:On June 15 2012 15:39 Kharnage wrote:On June 14 2012 21:48 WarangelEldrith wrote:
just drop the thor and the warhound and add the goliath :> It does seem like they have created this weird problem by removing a good unit and stubbornly refusing to put it back The role of the goliath is filled by the marine, though - why build a gas heavy unit from a factory one at a time when you can build a cheaper, faster, healable unit 2 at a time from a rax? Thors do something unique though. They do a lot of ground DPS and very little air DPS, but over a wide area, A single thor can fortify a turret line or make cost efficient trades with zerg trying to pick off tanks and so on. Two thors can fortify a wide area. Three can pretty much prevent mutalisk harass of an army combined with more than a handful of marines. The way that terrans use thors is actually really unique. I'm not sure I'd want to replace thors with goliaths at this point. Why would you use a gas heavy unit from a factory to cover the best AA unit in the game >.> The main weakness of said "best AA unit" is its range. Thors, like vikings with void rays, keep the mutalisks from dancing around just outside of the marine's range. Now, debates on whether or not this is good/skillful game design (as mutalisk harass can now be easily shut down without huge micro on the Terran's part) are still relevant, but it's definitely a good strategy given the game as it is.
Yeah, it is good strategy on the players part, but I would focus on the design aspect of it, I think goliaths are a much better design and do a very similar thing but give TvP a lot more life.
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On June 15 2012 16:09 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 15:39 Kharnage wrote:On June 14 2012 21:48 WarangelEldrith wrote:
just drop the thor and the warhound and add the goliath :> It does seem like they have created this weird problem by removing a good unit and stubbornly refusing to put it back The role of the goliath is filled by the marine, though - why build a gas heavy unit from a factory one at a time when you can build a cheaper, faster, healable unit 2 at a time from a rax? Thors do something unique though. They do a lot of ground DPS and very little air DPS, but over a wide area, A single thor can fortify a turret line or make cost efficient trades with zerg trying to pick off tanks and so on. Two thors can fortify a wide area. Three can pretty much prevent mutalisk harass of an army combined with more than a handful of marines. The way that terrans use thors is actually really unique. I'm not sure I'd want to replace thors with goliaths at this point.
Um, the Marine/Goliath comparison is wrong.
Marine is a general purpose unit with extremely high DPS and is massable. However they're extremely fragile and micro intensive. Goliaths are general Anti-Air units that act as support for other Mech units. The Goliath's role was taken by the Viking, not the Marine.
That said, going Mech means you're not using Marines, and you actually can't just suddenly add Marines to be Anti-Air because they'll be non-upgraded.
A lot of people don't seem to understand that Bio and Mech are two completely different compositions that need completely different upgrades and completely different build orders. That's why the Factory needs a good Anti-Air unit and the Goliath has already shown to do just that.
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On June 15 2012 18:06 ixi.genocide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 17:18 YoureFired wrote:On June 15 2012 16:25 ixi.genocide wrote:On June 15 2012 16:09 Evangelist wrote:On June 15 2012 15:39 Kharnage wrote:On June 14 2012 21:48 WarangelEldrith wrote:
just drop the thor and the warhound and add the goliath :> It does seem like they have created this weird problem by removing a good unit and stubbornly refusing to put it back The role of the goliath is filled by the marine, though - why build a gas heavy unit from a factory one at a time when you can build a cheaper, faster, healable unit 2 at a time from a rax? Thors do something unique though. They do a lot of ground DPS and very little air DPS, but over a wide area, A single thor can fortify a turret line or make cost efficient trades with zerg trying to pick off tanks and so on. Two thors can fortify a wide area. Three can pretty much prevent mutalisk harass of an army combined with more than a handful of marines. The way that terrans use thors is actually really unique. I'm not sure I'd want to replace thors with goliaths at this point. Why would you use a gas heavy unit from a factory to cover the best AA unit in the game >.> The main weakness of said "best AA unit" is its range. Thors, like vikings with void rays, keep the mutalisks from dancing around just outside of the marine's range. Now, debates on whether or not this is good/skillful game design (as mutalisk harass can now be easily shut down without huge micro on the Terran's part) are still relevant, but it's definitely a good strategy given the game as it is. Yeah, it is good strategy on the players part, but I would focus on the design aspect of it, I think goliaths are a much better design and do a very similar thing but give TvP a lot more life.
If Blizz adds BW Goliath in HOTS, it will be underused in TvP.
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I guess they figured out that they have to implement some BW stuff in order to make the game good ^^
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On June 15 2012 21:58 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:06 ixi.genocide wrote:On June 15 2012 17:18 YoureFired wrote:On June 15 2012 16:25 ixi.genocide wrote:On June 15 2012 16:09 Evangelist wrote:On June 15 2012 15:39 Kharnage wrote:On June 14 2012 21:48 WarangelEldrith wrote:
just drop the thor and the warhound and add the goliath :> It does seem like they have created this weird problem by removing a good unit and stubbornly refusing to put it back The role of the goliath is filled by the marine, though - why build a gas heavy unit from a factory one at a time when you can build a cheaper, faster, healable unit 2 at a time from a rax? Thors do something unique though. They do a lot of ground DPS and very little air DPS, but over a wide area, A single thor can fortify a turret line or make cost efficient trades with zerg trying to pick off tanks and so on. Two thors can fortify a wide area. Three can pretty much prevent mutalisk harass of an army combined with more than a handful of marines. The way that terrans use thors is actually really unique. I'm not sure I'd want to replace thors with goliaths at this point. Why would you use a gas heavy unit from a factory to cover the best AA unit in the game >.> The main weakness of said "best AA unit" is its range. Thors, like vikings with void rays, keep the mutalisks from dancing around just outside of the marine's range. Now, debates on whether or not this is good/skillful game design (as mutalisk harass can now be easily shut down without huge micro on the Terran's part) are still relevant, but it's definitely a good strategy given the game as it is. Yeah, it is good strategy on the players part, but I would focus on the design aspect of it, I think goliaths are a much better design and do a very similar thing but give TvP a lot more life. If Blizz adds BW Goliath in HOTS, it will be underused in TvP.
umh no? void ray are a problem for mech tvp , and i don't think widow mine can solve it, and thor are already bad vs void ray in mass, we need a strong anti-air that is not good only against mutalisk.
moreover mutalisk are already countered by rine, thor anti-air is very useless and silly...
On June 15 2012 22:03 Jealous wrote:
I guess they figured out that they have to implement some BW stuff in order to make the game good ^^
hell, it's about time
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Goliaths and vikings overlap too much to co-exist.
If you want "goliaths" back, tell Blizz to buff viking ground mode.
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the fact that i need to make viking every time i need a strong anti armored-units , is retarded, in BW i can decide between liath and wraith with clock of course.
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Warhound is 2 supply and 220hp.... this is the real tanking unit. What is wrong with Blizzard? Remember in BW how many terran units had more hp than a zealot? one.. the BattleCruiser.
These mines (Anti-air aside) have to be more like spider mines.. a MAP CONTROL thing that can either destroy the enemy army, or, if badly used, destroy your own army (dropping zealots on mines near siege tanks).
Why don't helions get an upgrade to lay down mines instead? a 150-150 upgrade that gives 2 mines to every helions or so. Terrans need to be the "low tech" human race that fights a swarm of aliens or high-tech robots/aliens.
Right now, Terrans are the protoss of BW (and the opposite applies). This started with marauders and this continues with the Warhound.
I believe the battle helions are an ok addition, but like most HoTS things (and SC2 as a whole), there aren't enough upgrades. Oracles, for example, should at least have 1 upgradable spell (the cloaking field for example).
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On June 15 2012 22:10 Patate wrote:
Warhound is 2 supply and 220hp.... this is the real tanking unit. What is wrong with Blizzard? Remember in BW how many terran units had more hp than a zealot? one.. the BattleCruiser..
Don't focus on unit stats too much, I can promise you those will be changed (nerfed to the ground).
There's a reason why Blizzard hasn't released these stats anywhere yet.
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On June 15 2012 22:10 Patate wrote:
Warhound is 2 supply and 220hp.... this is the real tanking unit. What is wrong with Blizzard? Remember in BW how many terran units had more hp than a zealot? one.. the BattleCruiser..
this was a cool aspect in BW, race were more identified, by these things
Terran were the defensive race
Protoss the powerful, with units that have more Hp
and zerg were fragile but more massable
now everything is a fucking protoss
ps. you forgot two other units, vessel and valkirye
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On June 15 2012 22:05 Garmer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 21:58 SarcasmMonster wrote:On June 15 2012 18:06 ixi.genocide wrote:On June 15 2012 17:18 YoureFired wrote:On June 15 2012 16:25 ixi.genocide wrote:On June 15 2012 16:09 Evangelist wrote:On June 15 2012 15:39 Kharnage wrote:On June 14 2012 21:48 WarangelEldrith wrote:
just drop the thor and the warhound and add the goliath :> It does seem like they have created this weird problem by removing a good unit and stubbornly refusing to put it back The role of the goliath is filled by the marine, though - why build a gas heavy unit from a factory one at a time when you can build a cheaper, faster, healable unit 2 at a time from a rax? Thors do something unique though. They do a lot of ground DPS and very little air DPS, but over a wide area, A single thor can fortify a turret line or make cost efficient trades with zerg trying to pick off tanks and so on. Two thors can fortify a wide area. Three can pretty much prevent mutalisk harass of an army combined with more than a handful of marines. The way that terrans use thors is actually really unique. I'm not sure I'd want to replace thors with goliaths at this point. Why would you use a gas heavy unit from a factory to cover the best AA unit in the game >.> The main weakness of said "best AA unit" is its range. Thors, like vikings with void rays, keep the mutalisks from dancing around just outside of the marine's range. Now, debates on whether or not this is good/skillful game design (as mutalisk harass can now be easily shut down without huge micro on the Terran's part) are still relevant, but it's definitely a good strategy given the game as it is. Yeah, it is good strategy on the players part, but I would focus on the design aspect of it, I think goliaths are a much better design and do a very similar thing but give TvP a lot more life. If Blizz adds BW Goliath in HOTS, it will be underused in TvP. umh no? void ray are a problem for mech tvp , and i don't think widow mine can solve it, and thor are already bad vs void ray in mass, we need a strong anti-air that is not good only against mutalisk. moreover mutalisk are already countered by rine, thor anti-air is very useless and silly... Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 22:03 Jealous wrote:
I guess they figured out that they have to implement some BW stuff in order to make the game good ^^ hell, it's about time
I'm just speculating here but if the Factory units are going to be Hellion-Tank-BW Goliath-Thor-Widow Mine, Void-rays are not going to be the issue. In a pure mech army, there is no way of dealing with Colossus-Stalker death ball. Goliaths are not going to help here (again, just speculating).
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i think they can just buff the tank and make widow mine/tank viable versus toss, instead of making a new mech like the warhound, buffing tank would solve this, i know they are afraid that might become too strong in tvz, but with abduct and swarm host, it will be balanced, just buff the damn tank and scrap the warhound/thor and give us goliath
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EPT
