TLPD Winrates May 2012 - Page 60

On June 18 2012 16:41 PotatoJunior wrote:


That is a blatant strawman. Many of the people in this post probably speak from experience in TvZ, and not just from concluding purely from the statistics. The statistics do give people a broader view at concluding with the general trend of the matchup.

For now, it is safe to say that there are more evidence concluding that TvZ is in favor of zerg than it being even or in favor of terran, and it can be backed up by some, more or less, pro players.

I also watched a game recently (Golden vs MVP member), where the terran took down 3 zerg bases one after another, had favorable engagements as he split his terran bio army to minimize the sacrifice against banelings, but still lost in the end because the late game terran army could not stop a combination of corrupters, broodlords, infestors, zerglings, and I think there were some roaches. The terran did not lose a single base during the entire fight might I add, only the zerg, who had lost 3. Even if terran could take out the zerg army, zerg could remax easier than a terran, and sometimes faster than the terrans can remax half their army.

Infestors is also one of the reasons why sky terran, or the upper tier terran units, are almost useless. Mass infestors can counter a max battlecruiser and raven army. Just fungal and spawn infested marines and run, fungal and spawn infested marines and run, then gg. Even if you can get a few infestor with yamato cannon, they can remake that infestor faster than you can remake that battlecruiser.

I have seen others where the zerg lost more resources, but because zerg can remax so easily with late game composition, the terran still lost.

On June 18 2012 17:17 Veriol wrote:


just fyi in all the major tournaments (mlg,gsl,dh) top 4 finishers are mostly terrans.

On June 18 2012 14:43 The_Stampede wrote:

I just love these threads full of non pros discussing balance. It's extremely funny, clearly skill takes a back seat to numbers in this game.

To be honest, if you are not a pro player, then your opinion on balance doesn't matter.

On June 18 2012 17:39 beatitudes wrote:

comments like this make me so confused. what you are basically saying is that blizzards entire balancing staff are pro players right? right .........

On June 18 2012 17:46 Veriol wrote:


Yeah not as of last month but whats so wrong with that? Terran was absolutely dominating the game for year and half last two months are first when its not as true but terran is still having strong results.
And what i ment by top 4 finishers are mostly terrans is that overall terran is still the most top 4 finisher race.

On June 18 2012 17:44 Orracle wrote:
Ironically, Blizzard bases the majority of their balance of statistics. The community manager on the battle.net forums said they have a couple resident PHD staticians. He actually e-mailed them for the forum and asked how the numbers are taken into affect. I can possibly find the link. Whether or not they balance at a top level, the game as a whole, etc, I do not remember.

On June 18 2012 17:46 Veriol wrote:
Yeah not as of last month but whats so wrong with that? Terran was absolutely dominating the game for year and half last two months are first when its not as true but terran is still having strong results.
And what i ment by top 4 finishers are mostly terrans is that overall terran is still the most top 4 finisher race.

On June 18 2012 17:53 zezamer wrote:


So do you think the game should be balanced so that every race has their turn to be OP ?

On June 18 2012 17:52 zezamer wrote:


You should watch the Davik Kim interview where he explains how they balance the game

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344574

On June 18 2012 17:57 Veriol wrote:


I think i got completely misunderstood here. What Im saying is the game is finnaly getting to be abit balance after terran dominating it for so long.
... and it got balanced in the end. Although currently it might be tipped in zerg favour. But we dont know yet ..

On June 18 2012 18:17 Coffee Zombie wrote:


It is tipped in Z favour. TvZ was pretty damn balanced during the latest patch (after the overkill snipe nerfs) if you handled the Zerg endgame MMA style aka multitasked a ton and basically just dropped everywhere and ignored the deathball itself until the Zerg's production and mining were dead. The Hellion Expand could be handled with minimal risk by a semi-wall and either inching a spine forward little by little or investing in units. Either way, the build's purpose was to act as a speedbump - not to deal damage but to force us bugs to play fair, not just press sdddddddd all day as can be done now with the super Queens.

It's disturbingly common for Zerg players here to think of anything that forces them to not drone as being wrong, when it is precisely the way the game should function - fair units backed by a broken production model that can be kept in check by forcing the Zerg to make units. Now we don't because Queens handle everything and don't cost larva. Hello, safe superfast thirds and half-a-map creep spread by 10 minute mark as standard play. Not healthy if you ask me. Yet many people are claiming this insanity is balanced. Please be better than the fanboy hordes and recognize that there is indeed a problem and that a brilliant matchup has been made substantially worse. (Myself, I'd rather watch TvP than TvZ nowadays)

On June 18 2012 17:46 Veriol wrote:


Yeah not as of last month but whats so wrong with that? Terran was absolutely dominating the game for year and half last two months are first when its not as true but terran is still having strong results.
And what i ment by top 4 finishers are mostly terrans is that overall terran is still the most top 4 finisher race.

On June 18 2012 18:47 Enzymatic wrote:
lol @ Terran players raging about not being able to pressure Zerg enough early-game.

You obviously haven't played Protoss yet.

On June 18 2012 17:53 zezamer wrote:


So do you think the game should be balanced so that every race has their turn to be OP ?

On June 18 2012 19:21 Ghanburighan wrote:
I wonder if the Learn Korean clips will be on youtube. Loved the Mule ^^

On June 18 2012 18:35 Veriol wrote:


I dont see the problem in early game for TvZ. I think terran needs unit that is capable of dealing with zerg T3(old ghost).
Late game zerg basically forces terran into wierd compostion that is bad troughout whole game and might not be enogh in the end anyway. Currently with exceptional control nothing beats BL/corruptor/infestor in late game. We might say but terran is supposed to deal damage during whole game with drops and pushes but that forces him into composition he cant really utilize late game but its vital to survive anything but late game.
I think old ghost would be just fine with maybe slightly increased mana cost on snipe. OR slightly adjust current units to effectively fight zerg T3
Edit: meaning buff tanks, vikings (maybe something like anti air attack - so it doesnt affect colossus)

The fact terran cant put enough pressure early game is fine I think because its still very micro dependant.

On June 18 2012 20:14 Toadvine wrote:
See, this is the problem with continuing to balance the game around Zerg greed, TvZ was in a great place before the patch, because Terran could actually pressure Zerg and delay their third without being all-in. Now TvZ has turned into PvZ, where it's standard for Zerg to get to 70 drones with no units on the field, and then immediately tech to Hive when he confirms no all-in coming. I'm sorry, but this is just fucking retarded. In PvZ, the early and mid game basically don't exist unless either side all-ins. In a standard game, you go straight to late game, and that's just nonsensical.

And the solution is not to give Terran a lategame unit capable of handling Hive tech, that just makes the game even more boring. Blizzard really need to man up and nerf Spawn Larvae in HotS, so Zerg can actually play more reasonably.