[?] Spades hacking? - Page 19

On June 05 2012 06:42 MuseMike wrote:
Where is Lead Detective Payam "TT1" Toghyan when you need him.

On June 05 2012 06:53 Plansix wrote:


This is a really good questions. Or stream it to a non-public stream to be recorded. Anything that makes a recording of exactly what the player sees.

On June 05 2012 04:22 drolets wrote:
18:20 He unsieges ALL his tanks, and starts to move to his third, without having seen LucifroN move to there.

19:00 He rapidly moves again to his natural, right as LucifroN's army is comming.

On June 05 2012 06:46 Spades wrote:

QuanticIllusion wrote:
Addition to the OP, looked through a little bit more and confirmed OP's statements and made notes where OP could be wrong. Either way it is really fishy play and he is either stream cheating or map hacking, more likely map hacking because he is reacting way too fast for it to be a stream cheat.


Game 1: Antiga
All of OP's statements true
11:02 camera block - is that sharp jump after the block usual? seems really fast compared to normal screen save/basecam
okay so apparently camera block is when i move my map fast or something because im looking at fog of war with some hack? i dont know how to explain this but i dont see anything weird.

What's funny is people dont mention all the little mistakes i make, and missing drops that cost me games, If i was a hacker why would i purposely lose to things like this, wouldnt i see them?
Game 2: ETBD Valley

Not looking at the base after scouting it is really weird..
7:47 push - doesn't even see bunker before pushing, no scans + perfect range
just standard range for a bunker..
13:42 - agreed, I would always send 5 marines or so right away or scan to make sure im not in danger.
he kills marines, and scans, I hold middle watchtower, why wouldnt i prepare for an attack on the right?
16:40 - blind 3 medi drop, doesnt scan to see if there are turrets or anything, possibly just really bad play
no scans were available, i made a move, 3 medivacs can get through a turret even if there was one.
Game 3: Shak

3:55 common if you go CC first and you are being worker harrassed, interesting he didn't scout at all though..
5:08 Rax 2 + 3rd CC is not in his map vision, only on minimap, most players look around with their camera.. not just their minimap when they scan
I'll answer this and whats after together. I needed to immediately know if i need to 3 cc or tech whether he expands or not, my scv scout was late, so i scanned opposite base as well. on minimap its clear he went 3 cc, so it's never going to be a factory, so i immediately went back to my base and put 3 cc down.
IMPORTANT:He scans the correct base without having scouted the other one

Summary: He plays really blind rest of the game, really bad as well, moving armies into spots he doesnt have vision of + never scans after first one. TvT positional warfare requires scans or well placed units around the map, he does not have either. He never goes for any blind 3 medivac drops this game - there are turrets for lucifron he didn't scout.
I played this game horribly positionally, and way behind, I wish i had magic vision to maneuver around instead of getting stomped.

Game 4: Meta

Everything true, really suspicous at 7:30 where he moves his army towards the hellions without seeing, despite the fact he was moving back and forth in same place 10 seconds ago.
random chance

Game 5: TDA

10:50 kind of suspicious but he saw it on the minimap and he already has his hellions hotkeyed - not too important
12:30 he's moving his army + setting rallys over there, not suspicious
17:00 absolutely no reason to keep your viking at your natural once you see medivac + bio going for a doom drop towards your main..
18:20 zero useful map vision at the point, unsieges tanks randomly and then moves to 3rd to kill luci army
19:00: moves back to natural, leaves 0 units behind to defend 3rd even after he realized that he didnt kill the whole drop, then sieges to defend natural + 3rd
21:10 moves his viking before he sees the medivacs on the minimap, moves few tanks + all vikings - not too suspicious but the suspicious part is that he still has 0 map vision, and decides to not defend his natural - no units from luci in sight
-- Stopped watching because it's getting too obvious, wasting my time
Quick Notes: For most of the game he has 0 map vision from lucifron's path of attack to spade's bases. He has a rax on the left for drops + top xel naga but not the xel naga connecting both bases together. Also made 0 turrets to defend his main on the back side, just the top
Everything here is just me randomly guessing, and guessing wrong most of the time, where his army would be. He constantly drops me out of position, moves on my 3rd with minimal army there, If I hack I am the worst hacker of all time in this game.
GaME 6: Daybreak

4:30 this is a really dumb move or he is cheating- he would be dead in minutes if lucifron was doing any other build.
I studied his games vs thorzain, he does 100% the same exact build. I took a risk
16:00 decides to kill rocks, then sees free medivacs at the lower base and goes down there instead
i almost decided to kill rocks a few times, and stopped because i know he can see me attacking them, anything else is chance and standard tvt maneuvering
16:05 looks back at his main - camera block - I noticed this many times-- he always looks at his factorys + starport whenever his army is moving to a good place, in this situation- lucifrons medivacs
no? dont know what else to say, there obviously has to be some way of proving this camera block, but because im 100% not doing anything like that.
16:45 he does it again, same spot
One could say he is doing it to make tanks, viking, medivacs etc. notice how he never goes back to his barracks to make units, always looking somewhere else. There is also no reason to look back at your factories and starport, both factories have tech labs and he only has one reactor starport. This occurs many times later but I stopped writing times here.
From here on, he has whole map control so nothing really matters, even though there are a few more camera blocks here and there.

Game 7: Shattered Temple

6:00 Remember game 2 and 4? Spades went for a viking to prevent uncloacked banshees or drop. This time, however, he makes raven-viking without having scanned and thus, not (supposedly) knowing LucifroN is going cloack banshee.
In most his games vs thorzain he opens cloak banshee. however raven wasnt "anti cloak" in this game. I decided to do a 1 base tank marine autoturret allin, but he went fast vikings so i couldnt.
7:20 He moves his marines and his raven to the location where LucifroN's banshee is going (He doesn't even know LucifroN is going banshees). + rallys starport over there
this is common play? i leave units at front and send units to back of base as well. I know you are smart enough to understand this concept.
14:30 Sieges tank on high ground out of other tank range + good position to defend, moves marines in main away from range of siege tank (it was in range before he moved it) He goes to his natural entry with almost all his army to get a good position to fight against LucifroN forces (which he hasn't seen yet).
you dont want to be caught in your base by someone trying to do tank pushes, common play
16:55 Instead of leaving some tanks on his main, fearing another attack from LucifroN on that spot he sends all of his army next to the golden, right where LucifroN is going, and suddently unsieges to reposition his tanks to the right, where LucifroN is moving.
Note: 0 map vision
random game flow, he also catches me out of position quite a few times
I wish there were more different spawns, antiga is 2 - shattered he got close air, entombed he got close vertical etc. Only games where it was suspicious was Tal darim - he got first scout and Shakuras he scanned the main before even seeing where he spawned. I looked through the replays in depth, not super closely but close enough to look at all the times stated in the OP


Most of my openings and builds were based on his games vs Thorzain in scan invitational. If you watch those you will see he does same exact builds on same exact maps which worked out to my favor as well. I know LucifroN is a better player than me, and I cut alot of corners playing him hoping to gain advantage. It worked sometimes, other times i lost for blatant errors in judgement. I wasn't hacking, nor have I hacked in SC2, and I trouble someone to find definitite proof because it isn't out there.

The majority of scans in my play, I scan minimap, then a second later click to location, which can account for off center views which you claim is camera lock. Other times i actually view fog of war then scan. this is all evident if you watch my stream vods.

On June 05 2012 06:46 Spades wrote:

QuanticIllusion wrote:
Addition to the OP, looked through a little bit more and confirmed OP's statements and made notes where OP could be wrong. Either way it is really fishy play and he is either stream cheating or map hacking, more likely map hacking because he is reacting way too fast for it to be a stream cheat.


Game 1: Antiga
All of OP's statements true
11:02 camera block - is that sharp jump after the block usual? seems really fast compared to normal screen save/basecam
okay so apparently camera block is when i move my map fast or something because im looking at fog of war with some hack? i dont know how to explain this but i dont see anything weird.

What's funny is people dont mention all the little mistakes i make, and missing drops that cost me games, If i was a hacker why would i purposely lose to things like this, wouldnt i see them?
Game 2: ETBD Valley

Not looking at the base after scouting it is really weird..
7:47 push - doesn't even see bunker before pushing, no scans + perfect range
just standard range for a bunker..
13:42 - agreed, I would always send 5 marines or so right away or scan to make sure im not in danger.
he kills marines, and scans, I hold middle watchtower, why wouldnt i prepare for an attack on the right?
16:40 - blind 3 medi drop, doesnt scan to see if there are turrets or anything, possibly just really bad play
no scans were available, i made a move, 3 medivacs can get through a turret even if there was one.
Game 3: Shak

3:55 common if you go CC first and you are being worker harrassed, interesting he didn't scout at all though..
5:08 Rax 2 + 3rd CC is not in his map vision, only on minimap, most players look around with their camera.. not just their minimap when they scan
I'll answer this and whats after together. I needed to immediately know if i need to 3 cc or tech whether he expands or not, my scv scout was late, so i scanned opposite base as well. on minimap its clear he went 3 cc, so it's never going to be a factory, so i immediately went back to my base and put 3 cc down.
IMPORTANT:He scans the correct base without having scouted the other one

Summary: He plays really blind rest of the game, really bad as well, moving armies into spots he doesnt have vision of + never scans after first one. TvT positional warfare requires scans or well placed units around the map, he does not have either. He never goes for any blind 3 medivac drops this game - there are turrets for lucifron he didn't scout.
I played this game horribly positionally, and way behind, I wish i had magic vision to maneuver around instead of getting stomped.

Game 4: Meta

Everything true, really suspicous at 7:30 where he moves his army towards the hellions without seeing, despite the fact he was moving back and forth in same place 10 seconds ago.
random chance

Game 5: TDA

10:50 kind of suspicious but he saw it on the minimap and he already has his hellions hotkeyed - not too important
12:30 he's moving his army + setting rallys over there, not suspicious
17:00 absolutely no reason to keep your viking at your natural once you see medivac + bio going for a doom drop towards your main..
18:20 zero useful map vision at the point, unsieges tanks randomly and then moves to 3rd to kill luci army
19:00: moves back to natural, leaves 0 units behind to defend 3rd even after he realized that he didnt kill the whole drop, then sieges to defend natural + 3rd
21:10 moves his viking before he sees the medivacs on the minimap, moves few tanks + all vikings - not too suspicious but the suspicious part is that he still has 0 map vision, and decides to not defend his natural - no units from luci in sight
-- Stopped watching because it's getting too obvious, wasting my time
Quick Notes: For most of the game he has 0 map vision from lucifron's path of attack to spade's bases. He has a rax on the left for drops + top xel naga but not the xel naga connecting both bases together. Also made 0 turrets to defend his main on the back side, just the top
Everything here is just me randomly guessing, and guessing wrong most of the time, where his army would be. He constantly drops me out of position, moves on my 3rd with minimal army there, If I hack I am the worst hacker of all time in this game.
GaME 6: Daybreak

4:30 this is a really dumb move or he is cheating- he would be dead in minutes if lucifron was doing any other build.
I studied his games vs thorzain, he does 100% the same exact build. I took a risk
16:00 decides to kill rocks, then sees free medivacs at the lower base and goes down there instead
i almost decided to kill rocks a few times, and stopped because i know he can see me attacking them, anything else is chance and standard tvt maneuvering
16:05 looks back at his main - camera block - I noticed this many times-- he always looks at his factorys + starport whenever his army is moving to a good place, in this situation- lucifrons medivacs
no? dont know what else to say, there obviously has to be some way of proving this camera block, but because im 100% not doing anything like that.
16:45 he does it again, same spot
One could say he is doing it to make tanks, viking, medivacs etc. notice how he never goes back to his barracks to make units, always looking somewhere else. There is also no reason to look back at your factories and starport, both factories have tech labs and he only has one reactor starport. This occurs many times later but I stopped writing times here.
From here on, he has whole map control so nothing really matters, even though there are a few more camera blocks here and there.

Game 7: Shattered Temple

6:00 Remember game 2 and 4? Spades went for a viking to prevent uncloacked banshees or drop. This time, however, he makes raven-viking without having scanned and thus, not (supposedly) knowing LucifroN is going cloack banshee.
In most his games vs thorzain he opens cloak banshee. however raven wasnt "anti cloak" in this game. I decided to do a 1 base tank marine autoturret allin, but he went fast vikings so i couldnt.
7:20 He moves his marines and his raven to the location where LucifroN's banshee is going (He doesn't even know LucifroN is going banshees). + rallys starport over there
this is common play? i leave units at front and send units to back of base as well. I know you are smart enough to understand this concept.
14:30 Sieges tank on high ground out of other tank range + good position to defend, moves marines in main away from range of siege tank (it was in range before he moved it) He goes to his natural entry with almost all his army to get a good position to fight against LucifroN forces (which he hasn't seen yet).
you dont want to be caught in your base by someone trying to do tank pushes, common play
16:55 Instead of leaving some tanks on his main, fearing another attack from LucifroN on that spot he sends all of his army next to the golden, right where LucifroN is going, and suddently unsieges to reposition his tanks to the right, where LucifroN is moving.
Note: 0 map vision
random game flow, he also catches me out of position quite a few times
I wish there were more different spawns, antiga is 2 - shattered he got close air, entombed he got close vertical etc. Only games where it was suspicious was Tal darim - he got first scout and Shakuras he scanned the main before even seeing where he spawned. I looked through the replays in depth, not super closely but close enough to look at all the times stated in the OP


Most of my openings and builds were based on his games vs Thorzain in scan invitational. If you watch those you will see he does same exact builds on same exact maps which worked out to my favor as well. I know LucifroN is a better player than me, and I cut alot of corners playing him hoping to gain advantage. It worked sometimes, other times i lost for blatant errors in judgement. I wasn't hacking, nor have I hacked in SC2, and I trouble someone to find definitite proof because it isn't out there.

The majority of scans in my play, I scan minimap, then a second later click to location, which can account for off center views which you claim is camera lock. Other times i actually view fog of war then scan. this is all evident if you watch my stream vods.

On June 05 2012 06:55 ][Primarch][ wrote:


He is busy playing D3 and if he is doing anything SC2 related then he is losing on ladder and blaming it on D3 (no GG and leave style:D)

On June 05 2012 06:47 Martijn wrote:


Let me just say as the person that's by far the most familiar with how streams work in this thread that you're full of it.

On June 05 2012 06:55 Spades wrote:
Guess ill have to play all my matches against your biggest heroes with a camera behind me seeing both my screens. So next time i do okay and still lose against a top player you wont try to destroy my career by making up bullshit.

On June 05 2012 06:55 mememolly wrote:


with the sort of money involved nowadays, something then it needs to be implemented

On June 05 2012 06:54 VPFaith wrote:
Also to note that guys, I just found out about Spades account.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2886823/1/Spades/

Last season he was 257-84 -----> 76% win rate
Current Season he is 83-65 -------> 56% win rate

That's 20% difference. What happened here?

On June 05 2012 06:51 captainwaffles wrote:




Seriously Incontrol, you come into this thread with nothing and post that? Just trying to burn him more? He was a hacker in BW he has enough shit smeared without you waltzing in with zero evidence other than "fishy play". If you're calling him out then nut up and call him out, enough with the passive aggressive BS just fanning the flames here man.

How about we wait until there is some actual solid proof?