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Alexstrasas
302 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:32 Gamegene wrote: God TvZ is hell right now. Just played a couple games on ladder. Orange Hellions. Creep. Creep everywhere. Overlords too. + Show Spoiler + Whoever came up with these changes. Damn you. Lets not forget David Kim came from Relic. | ||
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:27 Crow! wrote: Fun fact! Queens with 1 transfuse each (they can go up to 4 each) now beat equal values of stim + combat shield marines. Nydus worms for fast +1/+1 upgrade Queen busts, anyone? Huh? Queens are 150 so we're talking two queens vs. six marines. Just tried this out in the unit tester and the queens died with only two transfuses again six a-moved marines with stim/combat shields. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:34 Kambing wrote: Huh? Queens are 150 so we're talking two queens vs. six marines. Just tried this out in the unit tester and the queens died with only two transfuses again six a-moved marines with stim/combat shields. Well the higher number of queens, the better they'd be. Simply because when you're transfusing you're losing so much firepower... | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:42 FabledIntegral wrote: Well the higher number of queens, the better they'd be. Simply because when you're transfusing you're losing so much firepower... I'm sorry but adding 1 queen and 1 tranfuse vs adding 3 more STIM marines, it should be obvious to anyone what will come out on top. If its not obvious then take a look at the damage output of the queen and then the marines. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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PersonDudeGuy
Canada47 Posts
1. This big observer build time buff actually significantly, albeit unintendedly, nerfs skyterran play. Sky terran play is my all time favourite TvP strategy, at a masters level it's hard but i enjoy having the raw power of tanks and banshees as well as the harass oppertunities. Terrans that go skyterran in TvP are now even more dissuaded from doing this experimental style because it will be bordline impossible to do damage from a cloak rush against a competent protoss and it will be very difficult to punish a protoss after sniping an observer because they reproduce that much faster. And on top of that is the fact that protosses will simply get faster scouting out and be able to produce their robo units faster, this is pretty big for sky terran players as it the demands of having detection for the protoss will be less and likely wont wrap up the robo anymore, this means more/faster colossus and immortals or warp prisms. 2. Overlord speed change is fine IMO, will be a bit more annoying to deny scouting in general and especially in ZvP but zerg could use slightly better early scouting. 3. Ugh. Really? I'm happy the 50 energy change was not used but this 5 range change is also a bit much. At this speed queens will easily be capable of fending off almost all forms of aggression in all matchups. Using 3-4 queen openners is going to be super super safe and it seems kind of ridiculous to take away the terran/protoss advantage in this matchup by making zerg early game even more resiliant. Last discussion about balance blizzard has the developers openly admitted that terran was designed as an aggressive early/midgame race which exploits its strengths during these times to do better lategame. They openly admitted that terran is required to be hostile and pressure or else they are outclassed in the lategame. With changes that discourage aggression and make pressure even more difficult im a bit perplexed and a bit annoyed over this change in particular. | ||
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PersonDudeGuy
Canada47 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:44 Leth0 wrote: I'm sorry but adding 1 queen and 1 tranfuse vs adding 3 more STIM marines, it should be obvious to anyone what will come out on top. If its not obvious then take a look at the damage output of the queen and then the marines. But who cares? Why should we discuss cost efficiency between what is essentially a macro mechanic and a core unit? Queen's do not have to trade effectively with stim/shield marines nor should they be meant to because they can inject, spread creep and have other major benefits such as a long and strong anti-air attack. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:44 Leth0 wrote: I'm sorry but adding 1 queen and 1 tranfuse vs adding 3 more STIM marines, it should be obvious to anyone what will come out on top. If its not obvious then take a look at the damage output of the queen and then the marines. It was in response to what he posted. It logically moves in one direction, sorry if you can't see that. It should be fairly intuitive that if what he's saying is true, up until a certain point at least, the more 1 queen per 3 marines you add, the better it would end up for Zerg. | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:51 PersonDudeGuy wrote: But who cares? Why should we discuss cost efficiency between what is essentially a macro mechanic and a core unit? Queen's do not have to trade effectively with stim/shield marines nor should they be meant to because they can inject, spread creep and have other major benefits such as a long and strong anti-air attack. So you want to discuss the cost efficiency of a zerg using queens microing them and transfusing vs. A move marines on stim. Guess what , terran can micro too, and as soon as they do in that situation then you shouldn't ever lose a marine to the damage queens do (Especially stim marines with combat shields) | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
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Leth0
856 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:52 FabledIntegral wrote: It was in response to what he posted. It logically moves in one direction, sorry if you can't see that. It should be fairly intuitive that if what he's saying is true, up until a certain point at least, the more 1 queen per 3 marines you add, the better it would end up for Zerg. No, it ends up in favor of marines by a large margin , even more so considering how much damage output you can get in such a small surface area with the size marines are. | ||
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boppel
140 Posts
worst changes ever unable to put pressure to a zerg right now | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5224 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:48 PersonDudeGuy wrote: This big observer build time buff actually significantly, albeit unintendedly, nerfs skyterran play. Sky terran play is my all time favourite TvP strategy... i enjoy having the raw power of tanks and banshees... Well "Sky Terran" or the 1-1-1 is really annoying to deal with still as Protoss player, and any buff that helps reduce the power of it is good in my opinion. Especially one that gives Protoss the more time to get some observers to spot for Cloak Banshees and also Immortals to deal with the Tanks. | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
Queen range from 3-5 is not such a huge deal as some of you would like to believe. Just keep watching and we'll see how the pro terrans react to the change, because like it or not, 99.999% of the people in here don't know wtf they are talking about. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:55 Leth0 wrote: No, it ends up in favor of marines by a large margin , even more so considering how much damage output you can get in such a small surface area with the size marines are. Then why are you quoting me as opposed to the person who posted it? | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:58 FabledIntegral wrote: Then why are you quoting me as opposed to the person who posted it? I'm responding to your response of my response. Responception. | ||
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Zerker
Canada201 Posts
 just doesn't seem like a blizzard patch without that. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:44 Leth0 wrote: I'm sorry but adding 1 queen and 1 tranfuse vs adding 3 more STIM marines, it should be obvious to anyone what will come out on top. If its not obvious then take a look at the damage output of the queen and then the marines. Nope, queens with transfuse work theoretically better in masses, because the "snowball" of losing units starts later, the more transfuses you have. Realistically, if you exceed a certain amount of marines, their dps will be too much for you to react in time with perfect transfuses. | ||
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