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Accusations against Eclypsia - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
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imMUTAble787
Profile Joined November 2011
United States680 Posts
May 03 2012 23:30 GMT
#221
Not surprising if its true. Afterall, what kind of team doesnt even let their own players in on their fully retarded april fools stunt ?

Zzzzz
*eternalenvy fanboy*
dtz
Profile Joined September 2010
5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 23:37:54
May 03 2012 23:36 GMT
#222
On May 04 2012 06:21 ticklishmusic wrote:
I hardly see an issue here...

So, basically these people were contacted about a potential contract. Eclypsia offered some terms, and they sounded good. Then during what were essentially negotiations before any contract was signed, they couldn't come to an agreement. So, Eclypsia broke off the negotiations and that was the end of the matter. Now the other side comes and complains about not reaching a deal.

Even if what Eclypsia wanted was unrealistic, they didn't break any contract or anything. If anything, it feels like Mystress counted his chickens before they hatched and now is whining about it.



I think the dodgy line is about the " Oh that offer was for Na'vi"

Seems like according to Mystress, the terms that were offered by eC were accepted by ex-Quantic only for eC to track back and said, hold on that was not an offer for you. The offer and the terms were misleading.

Why state an offer for Na'vi if the whole time you are not negotiating with Na'vi. But of course we did not know the exact manner in which eC presented the offer so could have been just a misunderstanding / language issues instead of a team deliberately trying to mislead.
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
May 03 2012 23:43 GMT
#223
On May 04 2012 08:30 imMUTAble787 wrote:
Not surprising if its true. Afterall, what kind of team doesnt even let their own players in on their fully retarded april fools stunt ?

Zzzzz

O.O

People believe the joke because the players were in. Bring your fact checker to your usual technician please, it needs reparation.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
May 04 2012 00:00 GMT
#224
Hope desrow will be fine T.T, probably one of the most talented players out there, and the sickest pick-up from Eclypsia by far.
MDMA_
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada265 Posts
May 04 2012 00:02 GMT
#225
On May 04 2012 08:36 dtz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 06:21 ticklishmusic wrote:
I hardly see an issue here...

So, basically these people were contacted about a potential contract. Eclypsia offered some terms, and they sounded good. Then during what were essentially negotiations before any contract was signed, they couldn't come to an agreement. So, Eclypsia broke off the negotiations and that was the end of the matter. Now the other side comes and complains about not reaching a deal.

Even if what Eclypsia wanted was unrealistic, they didn't break any contract or anything. If anything, it feels like Mystress counted his chickens before they hatched and now is whining about it.



I think the dodgy line is about the " Oh that offer was for Na'vi"

Seems like according to Mystress, the terms that were offered by eC were accepted by ex-Quantic only for eC to track back and said, hold on that was not an offer for you. The offer and the terms were misleading.

Why state an offer for Na'vi if the whole time you are not negotiating with Na'vi. But of course we did not know the exact manner in which eC presented the offer so could have been just a misunderstanding / language issues instead of a team deliberately trying to mislead.


the real issue is, Quantic paid for their releases because of the promises from Eclypsia. For them to lure out a team like that and then go back on their word...thats extremely unprofessional. Do you think a team with a big, stable sponsor such as Quantic would leave said sponsor for another less than stellar and somewhat shady sponsor that is eclypsia?
boxturtle
Profile Joined December 2011
United States224 Posts
May 04 2012 00:12 GMT
#226
Sounds like 2 incompetent businessmen trying to do business. eC has proven to be pretty industrially retarded, and the manager for this dota2 team didn't think it was a good idea to get anything on paper before jumping ship from QxG.

I don't think this should effect anyone's opinion, eC has already done enough for that.
mell0w
Profile Joined September 2010
United States102 Posts
May 04 2012 00:40 GMT
#227
Yet anothet reason why there needs to be a union for pro players; this coming from someone who is anti-union, too. Players get screwed around with far too much.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 04 2012 00:47 GMT
#228
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 00:52:01
May 04 2012 00:51 GMT
#229
EDIT Wrong thread
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
May 04 2012 00:58 GMT
#230
On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote:
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.


It went beyond negotiations. Eclypsia had already contacted Quantic to get the DotA2 players released from their current contract. In other words, there was already a set agreement in place where the DotA2 team would leave their current sponsor knowing the contract they would be signing afterwards.

This is like giving your current employer 2 weeks notice that you were quitting, and then the company that was hiring you started to add in additional clauses once it was clear you were leaving.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
May 04 2012 01:09 GMT
#231
On May 04 2012 08:16 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 05:20 Alejandrisha wrote:
it's not that they are hurting esports. they just suck at it. that and running a respectable storefront which is the name of the game right now. they probably won't get hurt in court for any of this but the situation just makes them look really unprofessional. if they were a protoss player, idra would call them gimmicky.


I think he does that to almost every protoss player in some form or another. Wait... weren't you a blue poster? What did you do, advocate for the standardization of Adelscott's no-gas build in PvP?

hahaha i think there is written some where in the books a law that restricts blue status from anyone who ever mentioned adelscott's no gas pvp opener and "stable" in the same sentence
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Spicy_Curry
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States10573 Posts
May 04 2012 01:16 GMT
#232
On May 04 2012 09:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote:
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.


It went beyond negotiations. Eclypsia had already contacted Quantic to get the DotA2 players released from their current contract. In other words, there was already a set agreement in place where the DotA2 team would leave their current sponsor knowing the contract they would be signing afterwards.

This is like giving your current employer 2 weeks notice that you were quitting, and then the company that was hiring you started to add in additional clauses once it was clear you were leaving.


I guess they thought that they had trapped ex-Quantic into negotiating on their terms. Not enough experience in the Dota scene rofl
High Risk Low Reward
Shadow_Dog
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada427 Posts
May 04 2012 01:23 GMT
#233
Eclypsia is such a joke of a team.
Jono7272
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom6330 Posts
May 04 2012 01:26 GMT
#234
On May 04 2012 09:00 ZenithM wrote:
Hope desrow will be fine T.T, probably one of the most talented players out there, and the sickest pick-up from Eclypsia by far.

Same! Hope his contract doesn't rely on getting viewers as well.. Why he doesn't hit 10k+ I don't know
Innovation | Flash | Mvp | Byun | TY
Avelii
Profile Joined November 2011
Switzerland18 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 02:00:30
May 04 2012 01:39 GMT
#235
On May 04 2012 04:01 crms wrote:
I just find it to be down right hilarious that the community pitchforks to get people fired, emails sponsors etc., after rage induced ladder matches but an actual 'esports' company hosts its very own contest in which community members are encouraged to bash their players and it goes relatively unnoticed.


It certainly was noticed. Though, the idea was so retarded, the mods fortunately closed the thread, before it really got out of hand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330889

Now, another fail on their part (if all the accusations are true). "Ticlypsia" is slowly sinking... Too bad for the players on the team, I hope for the best.

@Aveelii
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 04 2012 01:45 GMT
#236
Wait, wait, wait. Shouldn't we wait for eC's side of the story (since I don't believe they have released a statement) before making accusations? Let's not be hasty now
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
lisward
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Singapore959 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 02:18:15
May 04 2012 02:02 GMT
#237
On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote:
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.

A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying.

If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding.

In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them.

Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather.
Opinions are like phasers -- everybody ought to have one
MDMA_
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada265 Posts
May 04 2012 04:49 GMT
#238
On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote:
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.

A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying.

If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding.

In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them.

Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather.


See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization?
nkr
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden5451 Posts
May 04 2012 05:08 GMT
#239
On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:
On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote:
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.

A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying.

If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding.

In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them.

Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather.


See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization?


Wouldn't be the first time a player doesn't read the contract when he joins a team. (destiny)
ESPORTS ILLUMINATI
dmfg
Profile Joined May 2008
United Kingdom591 Posts
May 04 2012 10:25 GMT
#240
On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:
On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote:
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.

A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying.

If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding.

In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them.

Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather.


See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization?


Dunno about other countries, but in the UK a verbal contract is legally binding.

Anyway the two possibilities here are:
a) Mystress is telling the truth, they came to an agreement, left Quantic, and Eclipsia pulled the rug out under them by adding new, not-agreed-on conditions, or
b) Eclipsia is telling the truth, they never came to any agreement, Mystress etc left Quantic with no agreement, to begin negotiations, and didn't like the conditions in the agreement

I'm inclined to believe Mystress's side here, since nobody in sports has ever been foolish enough to leave their current contract before negotiating a new one (especially when that destroys any negotiating power they may have had), and because of Eclipsia's frankly terrible history in esports.
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