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Eclypsia's response looks like it's something of a non-response.
They mention conditions and that Mystress' team didn't feel they could live up to the conditions, but they don't really elaborate on what parts of Mystress's list of conditions was true or false. Also, there's the implication that all of these unspecified conditions were put forward before announcing that the team was joining eC, but again nothing is stated explicitly.
I would say that, if Mystress had been dishonest about the negotiation process, Eclypsia would have made a more explicit statement about the facts she misrepresented. I still hope that all of this will turn out to have been a huge misunderstanding.
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never heard of eclypsia before, in fact i've already forgotten.. something... what?
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On May 04 2012 19:25 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote:
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying. If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding. In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them. Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather. See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization? Dunno about other countries, but in the UK a verbal contract is legally binding. Anyway the two possibilities here are: a) Mystress is telling the truth, they came to an agreement, left Quantic, and Eclipsia pulled the rug out under them by adding new, not-agreed-on conditions, or b) Eclipsia is telling the truth, they never came to any agreement, Mystress etc left Quantic with no agreement, to begin negotiations, and didn't like the conditions in the agreement I'm inclined to believe Mystress's side here, since nobody in sports has ever been foolish enough to leave their current contract before negotiating a new one (especially when that destroys any negotiating power they may have had), and because of Eclipsia's frankly terrible history in esports.
Yeah as far as i know, in Canada verbal contracts (emails, facebook any means of communication) is legally binding if one party acts on those contracts legally. In this case, its pretty clear that ex-Quantic acted financially, by paying for the release fees to be released from their quantic contracts. I am totally in agreement with you, i highly doubt a stable team would leave such a huge and well known e-sports entity such as Quantic.
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On May 05 2012 14:33 MDMA_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 19:25 dmfg wrote:On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote:
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying. If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding. In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them. Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather. See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization? Dunno about other countries, but in the UK a verbal contract is legally binding. Anyway the two possibilities here are: a) Mystress is telling the truth, they came to an agreement, left Quantic, and Eclipsia pulled the rug out under them by adding new, not-agreed-on conditions, or b) Eclipsia is telling the truth, they never came to any agreement, Mystress etc left Quantic with no agreement, to begin negotiations, and didn't like the conditions in the agreement I'm inclined to believe Mystress's side here, since nobody in sports has ever been foolish enough to leave their current contract before negotiating a new one (especially when that destroys any negotiating power they may have had), and because of Eclipsia's frankly terrible history in esports. Yeah as far as i know, in Canada verbal contracts (emails, facebook any means of communication) is legally binding if one party acts on those contracts legally. In this case, its pretty clear that ex-Quantic acted financially, by paying for the release fees to be released from their quantic contracts. I am totally in agreement with you, i highly doubt a stable team would leave such a huge and well known e-sports entity such as Quantic.
http://www.eclypsia.com/en/news-207.html
note the line "Our Dota 2 team is playing tonight at 7:00 pm versus compLexity Gaming for The Premier League. You can follow the match right here !" right at the end. quite clearly eclypsia has already considered the team as theirs.
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Why would they forbid the use of IRC?..
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On May 05 2012 19:40 Genome852 wrote:
Why would they forbid the use of IRC?..
Why did they think that a Meme competition would be a good idea? Honestly Eclypsia is the only team that I really dislike. And seeing as they don't have any sponsors or the like, I don't think they will last long. Their management really need to step it up hard.
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I'm not surprised. Didn't like the team since their "April Fools"
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On May 06 2012 01:13 JackDragon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 19:40 Genome852 wrote:
Why would they forbid the use of IRC?.. Why did they think that a Meme competition would be a good idea? Honestly Eclypsia is the only team that I really dislike. And seeing as they don't have any sponsors or the like, I don't think they will last long. Their management really need to step it up hard.
I agree with everything you said and at this point I don't know that it's possible for their management to step it up. Honestly they seem like a bunch of immature trolls...
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Releasing a statement like that shows that Eclypsia has a lot to learn about public relations. They aren't going to get any support with that kind of tone. How I read the situation is that Eclypsia got into a verbal agreement which they realized they didn't want and tried to back out of in a strange round-about way. Clearly not the right move on their part but everyone knows that 5k viewers is a gigantic number and putting up that kind of requirement is as good as telling the players to go screw themselves.
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China6330 Posts
Seriously, Welmu's April Fools joke aoubt Eclypsia is a bad one. The guy who figured out that idea would be fire on any other team.
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I have no idea how people like MystresS think going public with this kind of stuff helps. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, but by going public, every decent team or oranisation will not consider doing business with someone who goes public with delicate stuff.
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I have no idea how people like MystresS think going public with this kind of stuff helps. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, but by going public, every decent team or oranisation will not consider doing business with someone who goes public with delicate stuff.
I don't know if that's true. Stuff like this has happened before and those players got picked up by good teams. I think a team that knows that they treat their players fairly won't be worried about players that aren't afraid to hold their bosses accountable.
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5k viewers for DotA2? Completely unrealistic at this point.
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Also do you guys remember the deal with Verdi? It was his fault for not checking for contract but still he didn't get paid by EC.
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So it wasn't an april fools joke..?
I'm still confused about the last ordeal.
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Welcome to the world of Pro gaming. Sad after so many years Organizations still lie about these things.
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I don't think words can describe how much I dislike this team....
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if they agreed on the conditions that eclypsia wanted and didn't fulfill them it's their fault not eclypsias fault...
a contract is still a contract and you don't sign a contract if you know you can't fulfill it
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On May 06 2012 08:45 sVnteen wrote:
if they agreed on the conditions that eclypsia wanted and didn't fulfill them it's their fault not eclypsias fault...
a contract is still a contract and you don't sign a contract if you know you can't fulfill it
Yes, but they didn't deny what Mystress said, that it wasn't in the original contract, which clearly means it wasn't. So therefore they added it in after the contract was done, and then ended it for that.
I've lost all my (non-existant) respect for Eclypsia.
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On May 06 2012 08:45 sVnteen wrote:
if they agreed on the conditions that eclypsia wanted and didn't fulfill them it's their fault not eclypsias fault...
a contract is still a contract and you don't sign a contract if you know you can't fulfill it
The problem is more that eclypsia changed the contracts right before they were to change it, but after they already was in contact witch quantic about releasing the dota team. Thus more or less trying to force the dota team to accept very bad terms since they burned the bridges behind them. No contract was ever signed (as far as I know)
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EPT
