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On May 03 2012 10:45 EienShinwa wrote:
Only thing I agree with here is maybe the overlord speed. Queen upgrade to 50 starting energy is just outrageous, 35 may be pushing it for me. And as usual, protoss buff and no solutions for terran. Lovely.
They say in the post
We are closely watching TvP to see if the offensive capabilities of terran in the early/mid game becomes too much, or if late game strength of protoss becomes too much.
We aren’t making a change to affect this now, but it’s very near the top of our list of things we’re watching.
It's more likely they just don't want to rush into something that's going to break the game completely, they've been reasonably subtle in the past to good effect and I think the change that'll happen will be more interesting than for instance a colossus damage nerf or a change to the ghost/templar relationship again.
For my money, reverting the EMP energy drain change, while keeping the radius reduction seems like an avenue to explore, I also think a nerf to colossus speed would be super subtle and healthy for almost all of the match ups.
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ROFL YOUR FUNNY BLIZZARD
LOLLLLLL
the zerg changes are so disgustingly bad it's ridiculous. overlord speed change is just incredibly bad. and having Z start with creep tumor immediately is the worst thing I've ever seen....... now you can spread creep to half of the map pre-10 minutes?
Thank god none of these changes will go through though right? -_-
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the thing that annoys me about the queen change, needed or not is that it removes choice. you make a queen you inject and you lay a tumour. theres almost no choice any more which just feels bad to me. more choices adds more depth and even if its only a little thing i still think it would be better to keep the choice and do something else to help address any problems.
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The pretense around this map is hilarious. It's highly likely that they've already decided what they're going to do, just like they did with the Snipe nerf. This map/post feels more like a PR stunt than anything else.
I'll be very surprised if they don't implement these changes regardless the feedback they get. When they were suggesting the Snipe nerf, QXC made a really solid argument for why doing a general snipe nerf was a horrible idea - and lots of people on the forums were saying the same thing. But Kim had tunnel vision then, and I suspect he has tunnel vision now.
It's going to be interesting to see how they plan to handle terran's "early/mid game offensive capabilities." I don't see how they can change anything without crippling terran vs zerg and messing up tvt (again)
Considering what you get with the Observer and the fact that it has been buffed already, any change to the unit seems like too much to me. It's supposed to tie up robo production, because it's an AWESOME unit. You shouldn't just have it - no worries. If they want protoss to have more tech tree options, they should save it for HOTS and let the Oracle turn a friendly structure into a detector for a limited time with that preordain spell it's supposed to have. There are too many problems with WOL, but at least the winrates are reasonably even. They should basically just let the game be and move on at this point.
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On May 03 2012 10:51 turdburgler wrote:
the thing that annoys me about the queen change, needed or not is that it removes choice. you make a queen you inject and you lay a tumour. theres almost no choice any more which just feels bad to me. more choices adds more depth and even if its only a little thing i still think it would be better to keep the choice and do something else to help address any problems.
Which is why the suggested increase to 35 rather than 50 feels like a better buff. Early on you might not need too many injects, so you can lay a creep tumor, but it doesn't really delay the inject as much. Similarly, you can inject first, wait awhile to lay a creep tumor but at the cost for a slightly delayed 2nd inject.
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On May 03 2012 10:50 Funguuuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:30 Natespank wrote:they failed to look at the serious buff that marines need  seriously though, I like how the queen energy buff could affect the game. Marines do not need a buff.
He was joking. How could you not get that?!
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@.@ I predict no PTR again.
At least it's better than 1.4.3, they didn't do ANY testing with that one. Unfortunately no mention of snipe nerf. ),:
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i think blizzard should just let me balance sc2
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On May 03 2012 10:47 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:42 S_SienZ wrote:On May 03 2012 10:39 Sajaki wrote:
Remove thor energy would be nice... even if it means removing 250mm Cs
Having Strike Cannon with Energy is actually better than no Strike Cannon at all against Toss. Except for the part where thors can be countered by 2 tech trees. Feedback taking a huge chunk of thor health automatically makes them too soft to be viable.
It's who can cast the fastest. Any time he ties up feedbacking your Thors is time not feedbacking / dodging your ghosts, not storming your bio and time for your other Thors to Strike Cannon Immortals.
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On May 03 2012 10:52 Quotidian wrote:
The pretense around this map is hilarious. It's highly likely that they've already decided what they're going to do, just like they did with the Snipe nerf. This map/post feels more like a PR stunt than anything else.
I'll be very surprised if they don't implement these changes regardless the feedback they get. When they were suggesting the Snipe nerf, QXC made a really solid argument for why doing a general snipe nerf was a horrible idea - and lots of people on the forums were saying the same thing. But Kim had tunnel vision then, and I suspect he has tunnel vision now.
It's going to be interesting to see how they plan to handle terran's "early/mid game offensive capabilities." I don't see how they can change anything without crippling terran vs zerg and messing up tvt (again)
Considering what you get with the Observer and the fact that it has been buffed already, any change to the unit seems like too much to me. It's supposed to tie up robo production, because it's an AWESOME unit. You shouldn't just have it - no worries. If they want protoss to have more tech tree options, they should save it for HOTS and let the Oracle turn a friendly structure into a detector for a limited time with that preordain spell it's supposed to have. There are too many problems with WOL, but at least the winrates are reasonably even. They should basically just let the game be and move on at this point.
They have made changes to their proposed changes before (most notably when they nerfed warp gates and were originally going to reduce zealot build time from a normal gate way).
On May 03 2012 10:57 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:47 aksfjh wrote:On May 03 2012 10:42 S_SienZ wrote:On May 03 2012 10:39 Sajaki wrote:
Remove thor energy would be nice... even if it means removing 250mm Cs
Having Strike Cannon with Energy is actually better than no Strike Cannon at all against Toss. Except for the part where thors can be countered by 2 tech trees. Feedback taking a huge chunk of thor health automatically makes them too soft to be viable. It's who can cast the fastest. Any time he ties up feedbacking your Thors is time not feedbacking / dodging your ghosts, not storming your bio and time for your other Thors to Strike Cannon Immortals.
This makes the assumption that you can get Ghosts out before he gets his HT, given that you're already going for such a gas heavy build. + you're not going to put your immortals in front until you've feedbacked the Thors.
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On May 03 2012 10:51 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:45 EienShinwa wrote:
Only thing I agree with here is maybe the overlord speed. Queen upgrade to 50 starting energy is just outrageous, 35 may be pushing it for me. And as usual, protoss buff and no solutions for terran. Lovely. They say in the post Show nested quote +We are closely watching TvP to see if the offensive capabilities of terran in the early/mid game becomes too much, or if late game strength of protoss becomes too much.
We aren’t making a change to affect this now, but it’s very near the top of our list of things we’re watching. It's more likely they just don't want to rush into something that's going to break the game completely, they've been reasonably subtle in the past to good effect and I think the change that'll happen will be more interesting than for instance a colossus damage nerf or a change to the ghost/templar relationship again. For my money, reverting the EMP energy drain change, while keeping the radius reduction seems like an avenue to explore, I also think a nerf to colossus speed would be super subtle and healthy for almost all of the match ups.
Not rush into anything? Zerg has been in a slump for this GSL alone, and they're already kneejerk patching it. The only place Terran is still strong/popular is Korea, at least by all evidence beyond Blizzard data (which we don't have).
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I am a bid surprised by the changes. I like the observer one so.
Did dustin browder not recently state that there won't be any balance changes until hots anymore?
On a side note. The biggest joke is that there is still a count down for the loading screen but not for the game itself. When you think about that you just have to laugh out loud. You have to wait 3+seconds for the loading screen to start which serves no purpose at all. Someone at blizzard screwed that up badly.
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Canada13403 Posts
Queen change is something I don't like. It really dumbs the game down yet again and removes depth.
Make Queen, inject, plant tumour, go back to regular inject timings.
No player would simply lay down two tumours because they won't go farther with two of them, they just go a little bit faster.
To allow for a sooner 2nd tumor or sooner inject by giving a small energy buff is fine. Though to give them 50 energy really is going a little far.
As a protoss player the change to observer build time seems awesome but still kind of ridiculous.
DT openings in PvP are made worse now, before if you timed it right and the protoss made one single observer and sent it cross map DTs could net you a slight contain and allow you to expand while doing some damage. Dedicated DT all ins could kill a robo before an obs was out making for tense games as well. A full 10 second build reduction is kind of crazy, 5 seconds would be more than adequate in my opinion. Then again, banshees kill stuff really fast so that might be part of the reasoning.
Overlord speed is fine.
I really don't see what kind of changes could be made to PvT Protoss that would make a big difference in the matchup. If you make storm do less damage it becomes useless as most of the time terrans don't sit in the storm for a full duration anyway so it isn't going to help. People used to complain about collossus being boring and not dynamic and all protoss would do and I don't think we want to go back to those days.
Making emp a larger radius would also really hurt protoss yet again and too much since we all saw what it did vs non-HT armies in the past and it would make the HT armies we see now be a complete joke I am sure.
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screw the overlord speed.
I'll take the queen energy over that any day
<333
Edit" wow the speed boost is really noticible
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overbuff as usual by blizzard. the queen change is just ridiculous...
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On May 03 2012 10:57 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:47 aksfjh wrote:On May 03 2012 10:42 S_SienZ wrote:On May 03 2012 10:39 Sajaki wrote:
Remove thor energy would be nice... even if it means removing 250mm Cs
Having Strike Cannon with Energy is actually better than no Strike Cannon at all against Toss. Except for the part where thors can be countered by 2 tech trees. Feedback taking a huge chunk of thor health automatically makes them too soft to be viable. It's who can cast the fastest. Any time he ties up feedbacking your Thors is time not feedbacking / dodging your ghosts, not storming your bio and time for your other Thors to Strike Cannon Immortals.
Immortals are only a "counter" in the sense that Protoss can use them to fight off thors, but other strategies, including zealots and mass stalkers, can do just as well. Templar feedback just tips it from close, deliberate defense to "lolthors!"
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So Blizzard decided to buff ZvT and PvT early-midgame before doing anything about TvP TvZ lategame? :/ If the patch hits in this condition it just sucks for T because there is no mention of how making it harder for T to win earlymidgame makes it balanced if it's far more likely to die in the lategame?
Nice.
Obs speed totally unnecessary. BTW now with chrono boost obs have even faster production of cheapest mobile detector in the game for detection which happens to be invisible. 20 seconds? Nice. Nice addition to the cheapest/fastest/strongest/most versatile transport in the game that's underused too.
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Didn't the most recent win rates show that the game was pretty damn balanced? Most of these changes, aside from the Overlord one seem pretty drastic in terms of how much it will affect the game. Extra energy Queens are really going to shift the early game in all 3 matchups and fast obs will definitely affect robo timings as well (I see this being most prevalent actually in PvP - DTs are going to be way less viable with obs taking less time to get out.) At some point don't they just have to say, "This game is pretty balanced right now, let's not fuck with it and see how the metagame continues to develop"?
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I like the overlord suggested change, I think it will be good for zerg to have a slightly more powerful tool for scouting, and this is a very subtle step for helping. Small, baby balance steps I feel are better than large, potentially devastating, ones. The other two possible changes I'm not too supportive of. 50 starting energy for queens is a huge step. That early creep spread from zerg can be so powerful at stoping pushes, and I think they should be forced to manage it on their own, rather than basically be given an initial creep tumor for free.
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blizzard really dont know what they are doing.
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EPT
