EPTOn May 01 2012 04:46 SaYyId wrote:
I don't like this thead at all, especially because of the poster's last bit.
I don't like this thead at all, especially because of the poster's last bit.
whats wrong with jspark
Flash practicing sc2 article translation - Page 23
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zergmacro34
59 Posts
whats wrong with jspark | ||
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elimzkE
Australia92 Posts
Anyway, I've played SC2 since it came out and I've watched BW for the last 4 or so years. I don't really care how FlaSh performs when he first comes across, I just want to see some good matches and hopefully some more players really trying to push the skill ceiling in the top tier of SC2. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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robopork
United States511 Posts
I have mixed feelings, but it is what it is. I'm excited to see what Flash can do. | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On April 30 2012 12:24 Zrana wrote: But what about THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM guys??? man i hope he does mediocre at best just to prove that thread wrong If he does mediocre at best then I'm gonna be really sad for the future of SC2 because it just shows that there's a very low skill ceiling. | ||
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Bidj
France98 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:08 Angra wrote: If he does mediocre at best then I'm gonna be really sad for the future of SC2 because it just shows that there's a very low skill ceiling. Logical fallacies I believe. If a skilled table tennis player switch to tennis and does mediocre at best, does it mean that tennis has low skill ceiling ? If sc2 has a low skill ceiling (and believe me, that is not the case at all, I am still waiting for a player to micro as well as the automaton bot or wathever it is called) and skill is fully transmitted from sc1 to sc2 (probably not the case aswell) then Flash would still be the best but have "not so high" winrate. | ||
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:08 Angra wrote: If he does mediocre at best then I'm gonna be really sad for the future of SC2 because it just shows that there's a very low skill ceiling. No, that just means he can't adapt into a new game. If he does well immediately on the other hand... that will prove SC2 has a lower skill ceiling. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:16 Bidj wrote: Logical fallacies I believe. If a skilled table tennis player switch to tennis and does mediocre at best, does it mean that tennis has low skill ceiling ? If sc2 has a low skill ceiling (and believe me, that is not the case at all, I am still waiting for a player to micro as well as the automaton bot or wathever it is called) and skill is fully transmitted from sc1 to sc2 (probably not the case aswell) then Flash would still be the best but have "not so high" winrate. I believe I can say the same for broodwar in this case we haven't reach the skill ceiling and I am sure one of those automaton bots were to be made to micro goons and mutas they will be much more faster than pro gamers these days because it's all done by computation rather than player control . So I find it hard to say broodwar has reach the skill ceiling yet and until players actually can micro as fast as the bots can then it will definitely have reach the skill ceiling . Sorry but I find your argument a little sarcastic .. Also on the argument of computation and inhuman capabilities computers have against us humans . Who will calculate a complex algorithm much faster ? Will it be a Super computer ? or your math professor ? I find these argument that until we reach the capabilities of robots and super computer than only are we able to reach the skill ceiling a little unrealistic to be truthful. Because there is a limit to how much a human can do compared to a computer without any emotional attachment to it . | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:08 Angra wrote: If he does mediocre at best then I'm gonna be really sad for the future of SC2 because it just shows that there's a very low skill ceiling. One guy failling where others have succeeded does not show the skill cieling of the game. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:25 Adreme wrote: One guy failling where others have succeeded does not impact the skill cieling of the game. Not taking sides here, but he never claimed that it would impact it, rather that it would be telling of how low the skill ceiling was. | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:28 synapse wrote: Not taking sides here, but he never claimed that it would impact it, rather that it would be telling of how low the skill ceiling was. I meant to say the word show and I do not know why I typed it wrong | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5872 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:16 Bidj wrote: Logical fallacies I believe. If a skilled table tennis player switch to tennis and does mediocre at best, does it mean that tennis has low skill ceiling ? If sc2 has a low skill ceiling (and believe me, that is not the case at all, I am still waiting for a player to micro as well as the automaton bot or wathever it is called) and skill is fully transmitted from sc1 to sc2 (probably not the case aswell) then Flash would still be the best but have "not so high" winrate. Well, you're not too bright if you're waiting for someone to micro as well as the automaton bot because that's simply not physically possible. That has nothing to do with the game's skill ceiling or what have you. It's a result of limited UI, peripherals and the fact that human being cannot physically do two things at the same time. You can't e.g. micro Zerglings like that bot does, because you can't issue 'move' commands the way a computer does, given a single mouse and limited input speed. | ||
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cmen15
United States1519 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:17 RaiKageRyu wrote: No, that just means he can't adapt into a new game. If he does well immediately on the other hand... that will prove SC2 has a lower skill ceiling. If it makes any more sense, its not that Flash does badly, its the fact that no one can end up dominating. Which means that no matter how hard you practise you are just gonna be trading wins with each other. Its kinda like the top levels of poker where players are so good that if it wasn't for billionaires feeding them, money would just be going around in a circle. The differences only accumulate over a very long period of time. Its not like you get a Poker player who just crushes every tournament like in BW. The best poker players will sign up for 7 tournaments, and might make 1 final table. A similar thing might end up happening in SC2. Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a day, and his achievements are due to his strategic playstyle as his multitask is not as good as a lot of other players. Now you could imagine compared to MVP who practised a lot less and has better multitask than Flash, in a game where gamesense and timing are much more rewarded (Flash's defining factor in his play), can only beat MVP 55% of the time, instead of 80% like in BW a lot has to be said about the game. You can't say MVP tries harder in SC2 now, that doesn't make any sense either, I'm sure he tried his hardest in BW too. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:43 sluggaslamoo wrote: If it makes any more sense, its not that Flash does badly, its the fact that no one can end up dominating. Which means that no matter how hard you practise you are just gonna be trading wins with each other. Its kinda like the top levels of poker where players are so good that if it wasn't for billionaires feeding them, money would just be going around in a circle. The differences only accumulate over a very long period of time. Its not like you get a Poker player who just crushes every tournament like in BW. The best poker players will sign up for 7 tournaments, and might make 1 final table. A similar thing might end up happening in SC2. Flash in his peak only slept 3 hours a day, and his achievements are due to his strategic playstyle as his multitask is not as good as a lot of other players. Now you could imagine compared to MVP who practised a lot less and has better multitask than Flash, in a game where gamesense and timing are much more rewarded (Flash's defining factor in his play), can only beat MVP 55% of the time, instead of 80% like in BW a lot has to be said about the game. You can't say MVP tries harder in SC2 now, that doesn't make any sense either, I'm sure he tried his hardest in BW too. I'm not sure about the skills of flash since i didn't really follow BW. But MVP has better multitask than Flash? Honest question here. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5713 Posts
On May 01 2012 16:52 poorcloud wrote: I'm not sure about the skills of flash since i didn't really follow BW. But MVP has better multitask than Flash? Honest question here. MVP was a groupie compared to Flash. MVP never saw play time on TV and he mostly lost his matches. MVP to Flash is what your grandpa is to MVP at playing SC2. 30-46 (39.47%) That was MVP total record in BW matches. A sub 40% winrate with only 80 games played because there were better players to send out. 444-171 (72.20%) That's Flashes current total record. 72% winrate over 600 games. To put that in comparison, the current #2 Elo player is Bisu (argueable top BW protoss) has only a 65% winrate. | ||
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HellionDrop
281 Posts
On May 01 2012 17:06 Zooper31 wrote: MVP was a low rated scrub compared to Flash. MVP never saw play time on TV and he mostly lost his matches. MVP to Flash is what your grandpa is to MVP at playing SC2. my grandpa is way worse than me at sc2, and you didn't address to his question at all | ||
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naux
Canada738 Posts
On May 01 2012 17:06 Zooper31 wrote: MVP was a low rated scrub compared to Flash. MVP never saw play time on TV and he mostly lost his matches. MVP to Flash is what your grandpa is to MVP at playing SC2. i dont think u know what you are talking about. MVP was starting out then switch games when he was breaking out understand why he didnt get any TV time? and mostly lost his matches? how can he lose matches if he didnt get any play time on tv? realize most of these posters are jumping on SC:BW players bandwagon a little bit to early | ||
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Zooper31
United States5713 Posts
On May 01 2012 17:12 HellionDrop wrote: my grandpa is way worse than me at sc2, and you didn't address to his question at all I editted my original post the second I wrote it to include actual info. But yes I did answer his question of asking who was better. To can't even begin to comprehend to imagine a serious question of asking who is better. On May 01 2012 17:13 naux wrote: i dont think u know what you are talking about. MVP was starting out then switch games when he was breaking out understand why he didnt get any TV time? and mostly lost his matches? how can he lose matches if he didnt get any play time on tv? realize most of these posters are jumping on SC:BW players bandwagon a little bit to early Starting to break out? Granted he only played for about 2 years before making the switch, he lost 7/9 of his last matches. You could say he was in a slump when he quit and was getting worse. Also Flash had almost quadruple the amount of games MVP had in his first 2 years. Wanna know why? Because he was actually winning them. | ||
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